So I decided to check out the ##marxism channel on freenode, which as far as I can tell is the largest Marxist channel on IRC anywhere. Here are some of the gems:
I said: What is a realistic timeframe for there to be SioC and which country is the most likely candidate right now? hmm, do I feel like getting flamed? flamed by whom? I wouldn't flame you for answering I'm not overly taken with SoiC or much of what stalin has to say SUCH A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION for shame stalin did nothing wrong what is SioC Socialism in one Country
Well, I personally straddle the line between Stalinism and Troskyism Tjis well the question is premised on the assumptions that SoiC is possible AND desireable and what is your operating definition of socialism I support perpetual global revolution but I think SioC is the most pragmatic way to at least get socialism bootstrapped I'm not overly taken with the entire ML line socialism in one country is just a welfare state with a big army I disagree wew here we go
perhaps in the past SioC was impossible due to the constraints of resource acquisition and labor and skill gaps but I think the technology we're developing now makes the prospect realistic as an aside this is why im so much pro-nuke power death to state capitalism * Ienpw_III is now known as Ieninkiller I'm not talking about state capitalism I'm talking about genuine socialism SUCH A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION surprisingly so in ##marxism
is this room mostly anti-Vanguardist? i think being anti-vanguardist isn't a meaningful position I think it's meaningful I just think it's irrational impractical this room is mostly marxist, which implies a certain kind of vanguardism but not necessarily one narrow kind whatever you think or do, some people are working towards socialism right now, some people aren't, some are in parties, in unions, in affinity groups whatever, working towards what is in most places a largely absent and unpopular political change
well, I believe that vanguardism applies not only to revolutionaries but their nations too whether you call those people a vangaurd or not barely matters, the question is what they should do and how they should go about it I think that entire nations can be the vanguard for class consciousness worldwide, by setting an example this also means i think being vanguardist doesn't mean much either except in opposition to anti-vanguardism internationalism is Important Solificati: that does not sound right to me how so? the nation is not a cohesive whole that is able to act as a unit it's just a category error IMO, vanguard specifically refers to concretely organized people working towards communism. nations rarely if ever fall into this category. i mean even in say cuba, in what sense can cuba be seen as a vanguard? it can be an exemplary nation and a base nation unless fascism, of course the cuban CP could be, some unions there could be, etc, Tjis, Stalin didn't think so Stalin was wrong I disagree I think Stalinism was the best chance socialism had in the modern era and was corrupted i don't think you know what stalin thought about nations, considering that i've read a fair amount of stalin and don't get the same impressions you do Stalin was continuing the interationalist retreat because international revolution wasn't really working out for the soviet union idea of "vanguard nations" i think leads very easily to sort of colonialist mindset nations do form communities and cultures and etc. but this doesn't mean they have aany essential political or class character this was certainly something soviets failed to eradicate Tjis, right, this is why I think perpetual global revolution must be bootstrapped by genuine SioC first melanated_pupil, what does "political character" even mean? *esential political character right what it says on the tin? im not sure what there is to say I'm nore sure that phrase has any intrinsic meaning "political character" can be anything, and "essential" is meaningless in that context because of that i think you're being pretty obtuse. is the nation of france libertarian or socialist? not the french state, or a french political party, but the nation of france, however you constitute it? it seems really odd to even talk of nations in this way Because Stalin created ethnic republics with a purpose yes, ethnic republics. the true expression of marxism what does that have to do with anything? melanated_pupil, because the definition of "nation" is Stalinism is that of sovereign ethnic units *in Stalinism which is the classical definition of "nation" i.e. a common ethnicity and culture i don't think you read stalin countries and nations not too long ago were differentiated, that distinction has been lost under global capitalism >The starting point of national autonomy is the conception of a nation as a union of individuals without regard to a definite territory. marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm Title: Marxism and the National Question (at www.marxists.org) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_the_Peoples_of_Russia Title: Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) See point three I am pretty wary of people saying stalin was pretty cool for pursuing a segregationist policy
Thomas Peterson
[3/2]
Stalin, in his work Marxism and the National Question, which subsequently became the cornerstone of the Soviet policy towards nationalities, defined a nation as "a historically constituted, stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, and psychological makeup manifested in a common culture" the USSR was literally a Federation of Nationalities, in the definitions above, which include the intrinsic characteristics of ethnicity I mean, crucify me for being a Stalinist if you like but Stalinism was the most pragmatic implementation of socialism yet seen and I believe only failed because of a lack of technological resources to support SioC any stalinist success was not due to ethnonationalism no one here is crucifying you for being a stalinist, they're leery of you being some kind of turd positionist Asserite who believes in ethnic segregation melanated_pupil, I believe in Stalin's plan for the SSRs what were those? I disagree with a lot of his methods but the ideals were sound what were his plans as you understand them? To prevent interethnic disparities and disagreements and promote equality through equity ah yes ##marxism is well known for hating stalinists I also believe this is why globalist capitalism is forcing mass integration of exceptionally disparate ethnicities and cultures, to delay class consciousness arising within any nation (Stalinist definition) okey dokes
this is veering uncomfortably close to white supremacist rhetoric …again it's not veering, it literally is “forcing mass integration” … “exceptionally disparate” You're literally saying Stalnism is white nationalism lol maybe they’re not actually as disparate as you think stalin was famous for his hatred of moving people around why am i talking anyway i thought the nazi was already banned melanated_pupil, as modulus said last night, many of those displacements were punitive Ok so now I'm being called a Nazi where is modulus anyway what the fuck -ChanServ/##marxism- melanated_pupil (hattusili_III) added [email protected]/* */ to the AKICK list. * ChanServ sets ban on [email protected]/* */ * You have been kicked from ##marxism by ChanServ (Banned: stop being an ethno-centrist)
So, Stalin is now literally Hitler
Is it any wonder we're losing to a bunch of facsits who fap to cartoons and worship an Egyptian frog god?
Christopher Flores
You know, you could also have put it all in a pastebin. Also Stalinism is shit.
Chase Reyes
Oh, well, that settles it then. Thanks for setting Socialism straight, glad we're right on the heels of Communism. Any day now…
Julian Powell
They seem pretty cool if they make fake socialist like you mad.
Jaxson Stewart
How do I become a real socialist? Is there an academy for it?
Wyatt Gutierrez
How's all that idpol working out for you?
Jaxon Price
Apparently by attaining bourgeois liberal arts degrees and yelling at white people.
Julian King
Stalin a shit
James Bailey
SJW rejects a shit
Levi Anderson
The intersectional revolution will be any day now, fellow trots!
Justin Butler
I'm inclined to agree, to be honest. Stalinism would be undiscernible from Nazism if the Asserists had won.
Michael Hill
I'm genuinely of the opinion that ##marxism is run by a bunch of crypto-capitalists.
I think intersectionality itself is a heap of bourgeois bullshit that promotes false consciousness more than anything else.
I'm inclined to believe you're a fucking retard, to be honest.
Anthony Rodriguez
...
Thomas Perez
Look man, I know it sucks that Porky lied to us all our lives about everything, but some things he got right out of chance. By sheer probability, some of the people he called sociopathic monsters really were sociopathic monsters. Sorry you can't rehabilitate all your would-be heroes, but not everyone can be redeemed.
Gavin Wood
You didn't even bother reading the chatlog. Why did you even post?
Jeremiah Diaz
...
Jack Wood
Stalinism is shit. They should have put someone in power that would have met hitler with an agrarian economy that suffered from periodic famines
Bentley Brown
A less industrialized economy with an intact officer corp PROBABLY would've come out as roughly a wash
Wyatt Scott
lol
Blake Walker
And you wonder why everyone is so "sectarian" against you
Samuel Anderson
Every fucking time. Ironic to hear you call anybody else an SJW.
Parker Kelly
These aren't arguments.
Jeremiah Mitchell
Give it time, we're still working on collecting citations to refute well researched arguments you put forward here , , and
Dylan Taylor
frankfurt school of witchcraft and wizardry
Mason Martinez
LITERALLY EVERY MAJORBOLSHIE THAT WASNT LENIN IS COMPLETE SHIT AND NONE OF THEIR FOLLOWERS ARE SOCIALISTS
Mao too
tankies are virginal dweebs and need their teeth kicked in and noses broken
Jacob Parker
This is why Nazism is winning.
Henry Cox
Imagine getting so triggered because someone disrespected your daddy Stalin that you make a Holla Forums thread seeking moral support because of it
Hunter Cooper
...
Chase Wood
Yeah this is the type of shit we shouldn't even be discussing.
While you try to rehabilitate Stalin for no reason whatsoever, the Right is re-inventing itself, appealing to new demographics and developing new platforms.
Luis Adams
so is the left
the left has universal appeal to everyone
we control academia, our platform is everyone with a brain
Jace Lewis
How are you going to do that when they're in a tank and you're wearing nothing but a fedora and a fishnet body stocking?
Eli Morales
Into what exactly? The only thing the left is re-inventing itself into at the moment is batshit insane idpol liberals
Except the American working class apparently.
In an age where information is becoming increasingly easily accessible you're proud that you control a place where people have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get a piece of paper so an employer will pay them 1.5x as much. I wonder how long that will last.
David Sanchez
You realize if literally any of your enemies adopted your moral judgement you would all die right
Zachary Perez
Goddamn. The LARPing. Why not just unite and crush the liberals, capitalists, and fascists first. Then we can kill each other until the strongest side wins. This is how it has happened historically.
Adam Ross
This pretty much sums it up.
Adrian Diaz
I love being a Socialist.
Aaron Miller
Are you literally saying ethnocentrism is necessary for socialism?
Mods this board needs a purge.
Badly.
Juan Flores
...
Jeremiah Richardson
It's funny when Holla Forums has to slide their own board because they don't like a particular thread on it.
Stalinism is actually ethnonational federalism, i.e. a Federation of sovereign ethnostates. Under the Soviet philosophy of ethnic self determination, all of the ethnicities of Europe deserve their own white ethnostates which enjoy full sovereignty and autonomy.
Anthony Williams
authoritarianism, not even once.
Samuel Cooper
Yes
Jackson Sanchez
No
Logan King
...
Juan Phillips
...
Jason Roberts
Stalinism isn't ethnonationalism you reactionary piece of shit. Go back to Holla Forums you're never going to successfully convince anyone the Soviets were ethnonationalists.
Hunter Mitchell
Good luck
Joseph Mitchell
Is that starcraft or metroid? Asking for reasons.
William Rogers
Well, it's working for the alt-right. Hitler did nothing wrong meme is almost getting mainstreamed and holocaust denial is rising so rapidly that the Jews are terrified and have forced Amazon to ban any books that even deal with the holocaust in anything but the most hardline kosher way.
If the alt-right can mainline Hitler did Nothing Wrong, and The Holocaust is a Lie, then I'm pretty sure that they can successfully rehabilitate Stalin as well if is suits their agenda.
Adrian Cox
The thing is that the holocaust has been questioned for several decades before the internet ever existed in the first place, to the point that it's been illegal in several countries with a prison sentence attached. "Hitler did nothing wrong" is a result of this, not the other way around.
Ian Hall
Sure but the thing is, Hitler did Nothing Wrong is essentially the highest difficulty meme that exists in the universe. Ask any given idiot about Hitler and they'll be sent into paroxysms of vitriol and disgust.
"Stalin Tried to Help Us" and "The Soviets were Ethnonationlists" are memes with a difficulty orders of magnitude lower.
Jacob Lopez
Try wikipedia.
Aaron Myers
Dubs confirm Stalin will become a symbol of alt-right ethnonationalism and the lefties will weep.
Praise Kek!
Ian Adams
GTFO
Christopher Morris
Well, you might be surprised. Much of the ML theory revolves around the self-determination of oppressed ethnicities. Hypothetically speaking, if European Identarians could make a robust logically sound argument that they're being oopressed as an ethnicity, then yes, technically speaking ML theory would suggest they should be granted ethnonational sovereignty and self-determination as any other oppressed minority.
In fact, as our globe becomes ever more connected, the European ethnicities are going to be some of the smallest minorities in the world, and ML theory would tend to promote the idea that they be preserved and afforded autonomy and sovereignty.
