How can we make western Socialism less middle-class, less young, and less college-y?

How about we create worker coops that show that a classless society is possible

i did think about the possibility of setting up communes in poorer communities should shit really start to hit the fan

Here, you fucking retard

bfy.tw/AcOp

And no, don't try to rationalise it or say "what Marx meant by it is…" you're wrong and this whole meme is just a way stupid people like you found to go reeeee at common political discourse without having to actually read or study anything.

I think every generation has their pet causes when they're young tbh. Remember the awful prag-libs and how their entire line during Bernie's campaign was about how back in the day they too wanted Ralph Nader and how bad it ended, for example.

To mistake those with a genuine class consciousness or even interest for politics is a mistake the Left needs to stop making.

Fucking pseud.

You want that before shit hits the fan, so you can take control when it does, and provide what the state can't.

Nvm I misread your whole shit

mebbe, we'll see how sincere they are, and we may as well take this chance. i remember zizek talking about how bernie almost managed to combine the issues of classpol and idpol, and how good for the left that would have been. i mean, some kind of gay marriage or whatever trump and co have cooked up is gonna really piss off a lot more libs, and we know their gonna keep pushing the muslim ban until it sticks.

I've been throwing around the idea, since I'm lumpen and all my friends are lumpen, to create collective housing + coops integrated into each other, for lumpen, this includes the kind of work we tend to go after. Organize the lower classes but also the dirtier classes yeah?

The whole idea from the idpol types who are actually socialist, is they can use it to create hatred for the common enemy, capitalism. They're just super bad at it and it's backfiring because liberals.

Actually I was told once that's what intersectionality means. Now, they may have been lying to me, but supposedly it's "you have your issues, I have mine, they intersect here, with the police and state institutions"

People will probably be radicalized under Trump, sure, but I fear that what they said in Chapo was right: once he's gone, these people radicalized by previous circumstances will be just so happy with the return to "normalcy" that they will accept any mediocrity Democrats push, and make that their standard of progressivism.

So, chances are Cory Booker will mark the end of millenial's leftist ambitions.

aye, i agree, but i dont think trump and his ilk are going any time soon. i expect an 8 year presidency for him and then who knows who else the GOP will push after to replace him

You'd figure, but we already have this kind of shit without the revolutionary potential, right now it's just cheaper and easier, and I wouldn't say they're exactly fond of drug gangs and crack houses.
Though you may be right as well, a revolution is more dangerous than someone snorting a lot of coke and like you said, they have their ways of fucking up something like this.

Little Laurie's looking fine there. Anyone have pics from her days as a burlesque dancer?

Where's this lil nigga's posts going?

You mean the future media elites, academics, and other elements of the entrenched establishment that they're currently fighting for. Most of the future laborers aren't in college right now, they're working at a local car mechanic shop.

Yeah, with going to post-secondary education becoming expected of people, and a college degree being required for many many jobs now, I'm sure everyone with a college education are going to become media talking heads or property owners. Certainly.

First the left should become an-cap, not authoritarian.

gulag one million year

We can't for now. The older generations grew up during the Cold War. They're fucking hopeless. Baby boomers are beyond saving.

Authoritarianism is right wing.
Libertarianism and anarchy is left.

With those two ideologies comes different perceptions of:

Ancap is a sort of fake libertarian ideology, I bought into it once, but then I read a book and understood that it's not only impossible, but based on theft and barbarism.

Read into things enough and you soon realize the pyramid hierarchy of society is inescapable.
We are already effectively peasants of the current regime.
But living standards have increased so long as that regime exists and adapts to the new circumstances. The better the aristocracy's work to their "kingdom", the more it grows, the more is produced, the stronger thee society.

Our "king" nowadays is simply an architect for the rest of the world. It's an interconnected fabric of institutions that observe and help construe the society.
It's impossible to have a king without the help of his associates.

We live in a world where somehow the peasants are becoming "his" closest advisors.

It's a brain of people.

If you stop making it fashionable

B-but that's populist!

No. That would be productive and actually help the leftist cause. Instead what we need to do is divide the left even further and shitpost on a Taiwanese quilting forum until the"revolution" happens

In order for socialism to survive, it needs to be supported by the people. All the people. Including those you don't like. We should be focusing on how to radicalize more people, rather than exclude those who are already leftists

This.
At the moment it's all memes. There's no brains in the modern socialist movement.
That needs to change. We need unions and proper workers to get involved with the movements.

lel

The left needs to be about mixing the concrete or breaking it up.
The right needs to be about setting the concrete.

I guess private property rights do count as concrete since the most right-wingers want to preserve it while left-wingers want to abolish it.

But left wingers also want their cake and eat it too.

?

At this time every day retarded liberals flood the board. Really makes you think.

They have their own concrete that want to set and that concrete wants to be mixed and destroyed by the right.

I call it "anti-property".

The rejection of having their own control of matter.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

"anti-property" is like the opposite force or mechanism to "property". But in itself it has a similar nature to property.
Instead of wanting that chair to be yours, you do more than just say "it's everyones" you actually actively want to pass it onto others.

It's the opposite force to property.

Ah, I get it. The toothbrushes.

Never seen that meme but I can guess what it means.

We want the absence of (private) property.
How so?

Because you can't avoid having property. Property is a natural consequence of the universe. The laws of the universe define one bit of matter to the other and also defines the forces that makes one bit of matter collect (or make it's property) the other bit of matter.

Property is a universal law.

"Property" is an abstract concept without any nominalist basis
Just because they are collected doesn't mean they constitute property from our human abstract-legalist point of view. Helium atom does see its electrons as its personal belonging. In fact it does not see anything, as it can't fucking think.

It's not an abstract concept or a mere meme.

It's an active mechanism of the universe.

It's not that they are merely collected. They are transformed into a singular entity or even as two organs of a greater memetic body.

It's about the interpretation of what helium is. Property is the transformative feature of the interaction of matter that gives one bit of matter a characteristic or trait from another bit of matter.

Excuse the links.

In the first in third case I think our definitions of property are a bit too different to come to some mutual understanding.
So therefore a privately owned company and its owner are also "a singular entity or even as two organs of a greater memetic body"?

this. there is literally nothing else but the future to look forward to, and not every damn kid is going to have the same material interest as the ruling society. the point is to get them on our side before they are fully entwined with the system and its ideology.

It's both a dependence and independence sort of thing.

The company is still a separate entity to the owner, but it also has an owner.
Likewise the owner is a separate entity, but also is connected to the company.
It's more of a relationship that entwines the two entities so that one cannot exist in the fabric of the universe without a connection to the other.
A gravitational force but also the collective as a single and separate entities.

The hive is untameable. It will do what it wants to do.

Working class Europeans haven't been interested in socialism since the debacle of the USSR. Modern socialism exists primarily as a social signaling mechanism for college educated elites to justify their muh privileges and power over the lower classes. i.e. "We aren't just a clan of inbred genetic elites selected by I.Q. tests, we are the true proponents of equality and our rule is justified."

stop making it so polite and apologetic for what it is.
yes we want to take wealth from the wealthy and redistribute it.
if you don't like it, tough.

The industrial working class has been declining in prominence in the western world since WWII, nostalgic workerism wont save us now.

That conveys the wrong idea tbh, it's not even a matter of being pc

Anything written before Grundrisse doesn't count for economic analysis.

Well at least in the US, the solution is to go back in time and undo all the red scare propaganda. Millennials are the first gen born without its over influence in a long time

lel, tard, private property actually prevents people from controlling their own property.

[Citation needed]

The air you're breathing is whom's property?

The labor movement needs to come back. Socialism thrives in union halls, on picket lines, and in community centers. It can't sustain itself just on college campuses and on the internet.

We need people in the spotlight to march on picket lines and support militant unions. Like Bernie did the other day when he joined the striking workers (theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/05/union-rally-mississippi-nissan-bernie-sanders)

Whoops they're in a union drive not a strike, my bad

a succinct expression of why it makes my skin crawl

I once believed that fundamentally, things were fair. in general. yin-yang style. wasn't religious. it just began with the assumption that the systems encompassing my life and everyone I knew were much closer to the meridian point of economics than it actually was. in reality, everything is made of spaghetti, and the only thing lending a sense of consistency to the world is that fact that it is littered with humans and everything follows the same natural laws. we are the value comparing and equating system that has to bring balance to things.

I feel that many people perceive an economic spirit world reaching down into reality to keep things balanced. it's not just the invisible hand folks. it is so intoxicating to believe that you are in the right place at the right time.

are the people you described not proletariat? stop trying to alienate people bc they don't fit your preconceived notion of "muh burly chest white working class man".

Workshy sociology majors with blogs are not proletariat, they're clergy.

"Muh dyed hair nonbinary womyn" is exactly the problem with the left's image.

Boots on the ground. Go to local workforces in your town & unionize them. Educate workers in general with class consciousness & despook them from idpol. If most lower class liberals or conservatives were simply educated on what socialism is, they'd realize it's what they actually ascribe to.

This, too.

Laurie Penny isn't a leftist.

Maybe they're the problem if you live your life strictly online. In that case you're not doing shit for the left anyway.

...

That's a retarded meme & you forgot your tankie flag. It's about empowering & not allowing exploitation of the working class rather than just "taking wealth from the wealthy".

Eh it's what you see at a lot of activist groups, especially in towns with universities.

Bernie has participated in many strikes, though, throughout his career. I really appreciate when he did it during the election as well. I didn't even know about the Verizon strike(being from KY & all) until he picketed with them.

you had to remind me laurie penny exists didn't you

btw
never post again

"middle class" is fine, as most people are considered "middle class", and it is not a Socialist class distinction. Separating based on false bourgeois assertions of class is cancerous.

Think less about "less, less, less", and more "beyond". Because the left certainly does need to expand to an older working class. But that young middle class college student will one day be a middle aged worker, and he may well no longer be middle class any more with the way things are going.

yeah, until the capitalist states decide to invade it for whatever reason. We cannot advance toward a classless society without breaking the current capitalist order on a global level first

Co-ops are not, and should not be seen as attempting to create socialism from within a capitalist society. Rather, they are a method of production and organization that is more tolerable for workers. Most importantly, despite the workers having to still endure most of the same exploitation experienced by other workers, the lack of a bourgeois hierarchy and middle management attack dogs provides an open space to grow pro-worker sentiment and anti-capitalist education. Co-ops can be a platform.