Marx implies that systems like piece wage and cooperatives are capitalism last grasps at solving it's inherent contradictions, when arguing about piece wages in das kapital for example, he claims such system would be implmented in a very advanced form of capitalism. Isn't something similar what is happening with UBI aswell? Shouldn't then proper accelerationism embrace this sort of "ethical capitalism" as, according to Marx and other left-communists, these are the result of capitalism being already on decay?
Marx eventually came to believe that capitalism is capable of repeatedly saving its own ass at the expense of society at large, so revolution is necessary regardless.
Leo Baker
Piece wages appeared very very early in capitalism. Even Smith wrote about them. Where does Marx say they're indicative of capitalism in decline?
Ayden King
Marx eventually realized that his prophecy isn't going to fulfill itself.
Doesn't seem to say that piece wages are "last grasps" though.
Christian Watson
That conclusion is a logical one, piece wages allow the capitalist to strain more labour power from the labourer in order to keep more surplus value, it is understandable that piece wages are a necessity due to the fact that the rate of profit is always decreasing, when the rate of profit is not sufficient, the capitalist will enable piece wages and freelancing jobs
Xavier Smith
I think UBI has the potential to drag capitalism out an extra century at least really, rather than accelerate it. The nastiest contradiction within capitalism is that capital is always trying to put labor out of work completely. UBI means that that fucks up the demand-side of the economy less.
I'm for this since it'll keep the insane nutjobs that populate the left out of control though.
Owen Davis
but capitalism will sooner or later have to engage in such practices in order to make up for the diminishing return of profits, why wait 100 years when we could do it now
Tyler Allen
Piece wages are a tactic for slowing the decline of the rate of profit, sure. My point is that Marx didn't say they indicate that the end of capitalism is nigh, as was implied in OP. You might as well say the assembly line is a "last grasp [sic]" of capitalism.
Jaxon Adams
Accelerationism meant socdem ethics crap until Holla Forums meme'd it into meaning the exact opposite
Justin Carter
yes, and we understand that, capitalis want to preserve their position of power, so they will have sooner or later to engage in such practices
if they implement such measures and the ROP keeps falling, what are they going to try next? whatever it is, wouldn't it make sense to accelerate it?
Jaxson Clark
My hope is that either leftists won't be as insane (for the record I don't mean all leftists, but enough that I'm worried about who gets in power) or that we'll have such good tech that FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM is the obvious and easy choice.
Aaron Bailey
If you want to see your life get worse then sure, help porkie lower your wages.
Jayden Perez
but the thing is this is not done to reduce wages, but to increase them, as the crisis of capitalism is a lack of demand, a crisis of overproductions with not enough demand
Jaxon Anderson
thats a nice ass
Cameron Morgan
(OP) Different solutions to the same problem: meeting compound growth to keep capitalism healthy, either through either an atomization of labor toward its own self-management to save on costs, or through individualizing welfare benefits, which cuts heavily on state funding needed for personnel and organs managing them.
In Capital, Marx's hypothetical model of capitalism is essentially one we're more and more approaching: a bourgeois state with ultra-ordoliberal policy that exclusively serves to discipline labor where necessary and provide for the market where it can't provide for itself. In this way we're sure to approach a point, as you said, where things like UBI will be implemented more and more as a cheap solution to keeping labor wined and dined for productivity. The welfare state as we know it is thus not dying because porky wants it to, but because it simply has to.
Marx also never mentions cooperatives or similar concepts as post-capitalistic in Capital. He has some brief commentaries on their inability to alter capitalism in the Paris Manuscripts and Poverty of Philosophy, but that's it. Cooperatives and similar horizontal crypto-capitalist ideals were very efficiently shot out of everyone's head in the IWA after Marx roasted the few that stood for them, so there was no point to. They also didn't really survive the Marxist critique after that.
Much more pertinent and coriaceous were the new Taylorists that imagined a state planned economy of some sorts, which Marx then already saw as just being a different paint job on capitalism. People like Kautsky went on to sew more of that kind of shit in the Second International many years later, which Marx didn't have much involvement with but Engels did, and he objected against them on Marx's arguments' behalf a lot. See: prole.info/texts/kautsky_lenin.html.
Levi Cruz
Workers have all the power. I won't settle for less than complete abolition of capitalism. That won't happen while porky keeps giving out "handouts" and keeping his good image while fucking everyone in the ass.
Andrew Collins
Accelerationism is the opposite of trying to patch up capitalism.
With things like UBI, capitalism tries to keep itself alive. Accelerationists want to storm the hospital and pull the air tubes from capitalisms old dying body.
Benjamin Barnes
Kek. Now I've seen it all. Ancap-annil (unwittingly, most likely) going full classical liberal here with this rhetoric.
Ever heard of this dude: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Say ? He might be a better fit than all the actual anarchists you pretend to read in order to look edgy.
Lincoln Allen
War (destroys constant capital).
We do not have such power. And if we had, what we should do with it is the revolution.
Owen Gomez
what, do you belive I want to save capitalism or something?
are you pic related?
Adam Ramirez
Whether you believe in it yourself or not, yes. You just want it to be in your flavor.
