Idpol is a virus, how can we innoculate?

Idpol can best be described like a virus, or like 'The Borg' if you've seen Star Trek. It infects movements and actions and projects that would otherwise actually accomplish anything in functionality or practicality, brings it down to a halt with astonishing speed and power that seems to come from nowhere, eats it from the inside out, wears it's skin, and then demands it's respect. I've seen absolutely nothing ever be able resist it. Whether or not it's an FBI COINTELPRO operation, it is certainly doing the same work an actual COINTELPRO operation, and with great success.

I'm an american on the east coast. I went to a local anarchist meeting here. As far as I could tell I was the only anarchist there. There were nothing some authoritarian liberals who were just pro-violence and property destruction so long as it was used to silence and censor people who didn't vote for non-white Democratic Party candidates. At my schools socialist club meeting there was one genderqueer blue haired Marxist and a bunch of authoritarian liberal lesbians to whom the word 'socialism' means high taxes under capitalism which go towards free abortions and slavery reparations.

Nothing so far works against it. Everything is being consumed. What can be tried next?

I figured this needed its own thread.

Gulag

i have no answer

Dismantle them as the wreckers of Occupy and violently chase them out before they can pull it off again.

we have this thread every day and there are two others in the catalog right now. it's counterintuitive to be preoccupied with sjws because they're liberals and won't side with us anyway

Gonna get a lot of shit for this, but the answer is learn the language and stay heavily rooted in all aspects of organization. The reason this works is because these techniques cause divisions. But if you are a *white male* or whatever and have the requisite social/speaking skill you can get on top of it by actively seeking out and talking to members of the groups in question and ingratiating yourself to them through a number of methods. Then you can use them to spread your message in various ways.

They'll also want to focus on identity based activities. Let them, it's a self-correcting problem. If women want a women-only event, the socially acceptable solution for men is to step back in terms of organization either. The result is that women have to put in all the work on a women-focused event, and either they'll decide it's worth all the effort to keep doing them on their own or decide they want to "lighten the load" and do broader events.

The trick is to be socially aware and know how to talk to people and organize ahead of time. The reason this was so effective is that OWS was full of disorganized loners and ripe for division tactics.

Maybe try to start a socialist movement that only allows non Jewish white males in? Heh might be cool.

This sounds like some sort of weird crossover between Troskyists and leftcoms. There's also a massive disconnect between what happened in reality and what you're saying.

I mean, if you're a tankie sure I guess, but then they just call the cops or get a restraining order on you.


Then they call the cops. I'm not trying to rain on the parade here but this is a pretty predictable output.


No? No. No, this is what I'm saying. They come in, tell all the whites and males and heteros and straights to get out because they're inherently bad, and they organize fuck all, and nothing gets done.
You can't talk to them. Their ideology rejects reason. You either obey and leave or get forced out.

What happened in reality is that subversion happened without the so called organizers recognizing it while it was taking fomenting. Make no mistake, I have no sympathy for the pure idpol topics used for division, but as an organizer I'd be incredibly embarrassed to have a potentially divisive, divergent group set up right under my nose and make no attempt to engage with or counter-subvert them in any way. It's honestly astounding that so many stories contain "well I could see people setting up these spaces and all these women/POC/trans/etc setting up their discrete, isolated spaces but I decided to just ignore it and go on my way until it was too late". At that point you're either naive or lazy.

I feel like you missed my point. Fighting it does nothing, but actively encouraging (e.g. "I would LOVE for you guys to take the lead on this women's issue. You're right it's not my place") in a specific way lets you go do other more productive things and is the "correct" thing to do from a SJW perspective anyway so it's a win-win. I agree that idpol is bad, but I also disagree with the prescribed solutions that I always hear in these threads that seem to come from people who have never worked with people irl and know nothing of group manipulation tactics.

Fuck off FBI.

Yes, that's bullying in a nutshell.

The answer lies at the bottom of the trashcan of ideology.

The answer is simple if you're an organiser for such an event. If you notice someone trying to force a safe space or whatever then grab them by the collar and inform them that if their words don't stand up to scrutiny, they don't deserve to be spoken.

Much crying and triggering may happen, but if they're the cancer, you're gonna have to be the chemo. Harsh but necessary.

How about this for an idea: Operation Revenge.

We find every one of these fucks that allowed OWS to be destroyed, and ruin their lives.

…your solution is to fight the FBI?

The thing is that the idpol is the majority. A 15% minority of anarchists and libertarian socialists can't fight the entire rest of them. Especially when they'll early call the cops and the cops, just as eagerly will send a SWAT team out to jail that small 15% of anarchists and libertarian socialists.

Jail them for what? Not letting the idpolers get their way? That's the important thing about a successful sustained protest movement, don't let it turn malevolent. If it's the feminists causing a stink you can say "they're the ones doing the rioting, not us!"

This is super naive. Cops don't need a "reason" to jail dissidents, and this positivist "the law is the law!" mentality will be the undoing of any serious movement that follows it.

No, just bully the people that facefagged themselves into oblivion. The stupid bitch earlier in the thread is a good example of a target.

Who?

For planning literally anything that anarchists and libertarian socialists do. In most places in America you need a permit to protest, which we never do. The police then will arrest you for conspiracy. The paperwork behind which can take as long as they feel like it will. They'll just keep you in the holding area cages as long as they want.

This basically.

My mistake, here.

Nice defeatism. If a group of anarchists (for example) decide to do an occupy thing and set up a tent town on public property, then they aren't breaking any laws.

If they protest peacefully, they aren't breaking any laws.
If they distribute leaflets and give talks then they aren't breaking any laws
If they keep idpol under control then they aren't breaking any laws.

If they stay on the right side of the law then the police have no casus beli to interfere, and crying hipsters will just be given an eye roll.

Maybe a few PCs poke around the camp but as long as nobody is doing crack and building pipe bombs then the most they can do is grumble about it.

If they use force then if anything they're the ones breaking the law.

It's not defeatist to say that it's smarter to know how to subvert/manipulate yourself and "play the game" as it were than to fight a battle that you lose by the numbers


Oh that video. I'm quite familiar. If it were me I would've said nothing and just bided my time, seen who gets called on most frequently by progressive stack, and befriended/influenced those people (it should become clear to you who is an infiltrator and who is a useful rube).

Those people can now become your proxies, and you can exert your influence and even have a de facto leadership position if you ingratiate yourself to enough people from diverse enough backgrounds. The only thing standing in your way is being smarter/better read than the majority of people (not that hard) and using your knowledge of theory to influence decisions.

Great post FBI. I'm fully convinced to recreate the errors of yesterday under a false pretense of being able to operate in the scenarios you've created.

Fuck off.

If you think "people will subvert you, get better at social manipulation and public speaking to counter" is disinfo or FBI type advice, then you're probably beyond helping anyway.

Established protest movements is how the left gains numbers, we can't lock ourselves into a catch-22 because we're too scared to take risks. Changing the world isn't going to be sunshine and rainbows.

It will be time consuming, frustrating, difficult and bloody every step of the way. But if we don't at least try to organise and fight then what else can we do but sit back and be porked into oblivion.

I think people here are taking my post as "don't do anything yourself and just go along with the system" when I'm really saying "do your own work and learn how to manipulate those that would throw a wrench in your plans"

With the video in particular I'm talking under the hypothetical of being a rando in the crowd not the organizer. As the organizer I obviously wouldn't allow that faggotry to begin with.

You're still wrong. An effective movement can't be a scattering of lone wolves chipping through the Great Wall of idpol. charisma is important, yes but we need to put aside individualism to be effective.

You're who I made this thread about.

I'm going to pull out your fingernails and rape your family on a livestream, fed.

I agree that's the ultimate plan. But under the current environment establishing a real, effective movement involves subversion under established, idpol fueled movements instead of writing them off.

Whatever you say, autist

It's been said before, idpolers, SJWs and the like are impervious to logic. Writing them off is the only option. Take BLM for example, could you subvert them without being beaten with the "muh oppression" stick?

infiltrating idpol groups is pure pie in the sky. we need to form our own movements and turn vulnerable ones over to us, take a firm stance against safe spaces and the like, and that's how we build.

Probably, though I'm more talking about letting idpol types join your groups but having a system/plan in place to divert their idpol style efforts instead of kicking them out outright. The truth is an inordinate number of leftists (at least in the US) are idpol types so you have to find a way to work with them without letting them get in your way.

meant to say "probably not"