Nationalism Doesn't Work

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Clearly, we have to fetishise socialism. It's the only way.

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You think the far right fetishise whites?

civic nationalism > ethnic/race nationalism

This is why everyone laughs at yall

Also, if you are going to call neanderthals stupid, you might as well call niggers stupid.

for

Honestly I'm drawn to nationalism on a cynical level since it lets you cut the world up into different areas.

In the long term, a classless, stateless, moneyless society. In the short term? Fuck globalization, pay westerners more.

"neanderthal where stupid" is just a pop culture meme.
most scientist today says they where just as smart as homo sapiens, if you are going to use the darwinian argument on them being stupid because they died out, then you might aswell call injuns inferior

"My brand of nationalism works perfect"

Sorry no.

Nationalism always fails, borders on a map are only enforced by Capital.Economic borders are just for trade. Nationalists try to act like its more than that but its not.

As long as x exists, I'll support whatever x I am a part of or am counted as or prefer, for egoist reasons.

Look, stop with this, we're not doing this.
Right Wing Ideas are just Poor Thinking. They aren't disease nor should we propose to label them that way.

Fucking Holla Forumsintelpro.

even as a nationalist i agree that in the long term once communism is established the need for nation-states is gone.
It's not like their is going to be any cultural hegemony or massimmigration in communism since both is created by capitalists

WEW

This is why people think Nationalism is a mental disease.

Stick to book burining. We know reading is to hard for you.

lol read sorel

Nigga pls

Neanderthals weren't stupid, they just couldn't adapt as fast as humans could and were weak oral communication wise. Humans always kept using better & better tools unlike the neanderthals.

Bigger brain doesn't mean better shlomo

Really makes you think.

I see you are projecting, because as you can see that was satire at your expense. As well, saying I am a book burner and saying I am a disease is not emotional on your part? Hypocrisy at its finest folks.

You know they are losing the debate when they start digging your profile for weird/embarassing photos and they just start posting them during the debate with smug comments

But how?

Hm, really simulates the brain.

Thanks for the cringe user.

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You say I have childish outbursts, when all you seem to do is childish name calling. The amount of projection is disturbing. At least counter my point, or bring something to the table. yall are about equal distribution of labor, bring something to this conversation.

At any time, I will be happy to supply you with any level of discomfort, intentionally or otherwise.

This was an insult that you took personally.

Then you went full pseudo-intellectual because you got emotional that nationalism has no platform to stand on lol

Calling nazis mentally ill is anti-materialist because it suggests political movements are rooted in mass psychosis and not material factors. C'mon user, don't be this dumb.

No its a fact.

Someones lack of education on a topic when someone is spouting it on the internet is trivial. The only emotion I am getting out of this is probably a similar one you are getting from not making a argument and posting smug anime girls.

Nationalism about ones race has a platform, just as dogs have different breeds that have predictable outcomes based on genetics (mixing or otherwise) the hubris that this does not apply to human beings is without merit.

I have made my stance, all you have done is made insults and posted pictures. Its pathetic

Nobody denies human genetic variation.

What's denied is that "races" are a useful method of classifying such variation.

It's called identity politics, and It's pure cancer.

That's what the far-right will never understand.

Medicine would say "yes"

Africans are more likely to suffer from things such as sickle cell anemia, as white people are more likely to have cardio vascular disease. Its great in that regard.

What creates identity politics is identity and politics. So long as I appear different from you in a noticeable way, it will exist always. This meaning that if white people lived in white nations, Africans lived in African nations, so on identity politics would be reduced significantly. You could say I am anti identity politics.

I do understand frankly, and I am all for removing it, probably in a similar way you would.

You can narrow that down into further classification, though.

For example, Scotland will drag the numbers up for heart problems across Celts, relative to English people. The distinction between Anglo-Saxon and Nordic-Celt-Mixture would then show results, even though they're both part of the ""white race""

There was never any all "White" or all "African" nations, you are idpol. You are cancer.

Look up "Why Wh!te [email protected]/* */$m is Wrong"

youtube.com/watch?v=U-c2qnfUNXE

You might learn why you are wrong.

I agree, but theirs a reason why your doctor does not need to know that information. Because the medicine you take will be the same as other white people, and the medical issues are not so big in terms of difference in amounts.

your doctor cares about your race, not your heritage.

I dont care if we had one or not, just as you believe that you should do away with the wealthy and give the MoP to the people regardless of if they had it or not. I want a Europe that belongs to the indigenous population who have shared value, culture and beliefs. Am I ever going to get it? Probably not, same as you. However I dont believe we should import Muslims, who would never care for something like the MoP, who would never care about something like the nation state and its laws regarding secularism, and who would never care about anything the indigenous people would. Let the Arabs be with Arabs, they know best how to take care of their own.

This is unbelievably obnoxious, 2:20 in and he just starts to actually get to the point. Also, I find it hilarious that you are using a leftypol stereotype to try and change my viewpoint.

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I'm not a white nationalist though. On the contrary the position I've taken eventually leads to one shocking conclusion: Your doctor is best placed to make decisions about you when he knows your details, instead of going "Ah, he's white, it's a heart problem, get the electric shock thing" "But I've actually got a pickaxe in my he–" ==*THDUNK*== *beeeep* "Doctor, he's losing a lot of blood from his–" "SHUT UP I'VE GOT THIS" ==*THDUNK*== *Beeeeeeeeep*

As a mode of assumption it's worthless, though. I mean what the fuck does my doctor do with Italians or other not-actually-white-but-kinda-sorta-maybe people?

I actually dont care about the Klu Klux Klan, but so far the correlation between what someone else is saying and them when they have no clear connection. And this is cringe worthy, especially when he references space jam

how is nationalism going to solve this?
video.vice.com/en_us/video/garbage-island/563b9c912aab5c416bc75039

we need a global society capable of controlling pollution

Whatever is the majority of the genetics tends to be what takes over the tenancy. Even so, the regional medical practices take over, for example, lets talk about two majority groups in two different places.

We have an Italian in new York and a Italian in Rome. The two live in a majority Italian place, even if your doctor is a black man, he will be aware in knowing that if you are white in these areas you are probably Italian. Meaning that any time someone is treated, they are using a practice of medicine from the region based on the coronations going on in that specific ethnic group. Mixes are no different, theyll have specific needs and those needs will correlate locally.

But "White" correlations might be useless for Italians, either for cultural reasons or genetic ones. (Just for example Italy's heart-disease mortality, for example, is a fraction of that of the USA. 48.48/100,000 vs 77.97/100,000 for the USA)

If we assume it's a genetic reason behind that instead of dietary, cultural, whatever, any assumptions along the line of "Oh, he's white, it's more likely than not to be a heart thing…" with someone of Italian genetics in the USA are worthless, at which point you have to pull back and figure out the actual genetics behind it instead of relying on the total abstraction of whiteness as anything other than a total shot in the dark.

Medicine has shown this not to be true as far as I am aware. Many things are inherited, such as sickle cell anemia, heart disease and cardiovascular issues. And those are what I am referring to. Inherited medical issues from genetic defect or otherwise are what I am referring to. You put a white man in China town, have a white family for many generations and the issue will persist.

I also wanted to say thank you for actually talking rather then just posting smug anime girls and saying "I have a small brain." I genuinely want to learn as well as teach. I would love to be wrong

I myself am mixed race of Japanese and German (pls kill me) but because of my dominate German genetics as well as the higher percentage of German genetics with medicine I should and would be treated as white.

That spacing. Hoochie posting as a leftcom now?

She doesn't talk like that.

Hooch spaces every damn sentence like a mongoloid.

What may be true for whites in aggregate will not be the case for certain sub-sets of white people, that's my point in it's shortest form, as well as the point of the Italian example. (i.e. hypothetically, Italians have some genetic difference that reduces the susceptibility to heart disease compared to other "white" groups.) I suppose it runs similar to the Fallacy of division.
The bonus being of course that whether Italians are "White" is in itself in question.

Race is far too social a category to be of much use. (I mean, while Americans group all Africans as African-American/Black, Africans themselves draw their own distinctions instead of being homogeneously black. Filipinos are questionably Asian, and how the hell Hispanics interact with Spaniards I still don't know.)
Haplotype is much more useful.

"as more than a proxy"

I think it looks good, better structured post.

You have a garbage opinion there. Sentences that focus on the same general line of thought belong in the same paragraph.

Dont want to be a fun breaker but since when is nationalism the same as ethno-fascist?

In what ways do they not?

Since always

Being a patriotard is just as bad as being a stormfag, not to mention the former exalts free market capitalism way more.

nah breh

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It just keeps on going…

I mean, both don't work sooo…

Define "work". Nationalism has achieved basically everything it set out to do: the whole developed world lives in nation states and each nation has - in theory - the right to self-determination.

There is no such thing as homogenious nation-state.
Therefor nationalism has failed and multiculturalism is the only solution.

There is no "white race". There is no "black race". Get that through your thick skull. It's an illusion. This is like radfems saying "if every gender got its own area, we wouldn't have identity politics!". There is no gender or race or any of that, just objective material conditions.

Richard Spencer even acknowledges that the alt-right is idpol-based. If you really disliked idpol, then you would recognize your beliefs as being idpol and drop them for outright class politics.

Look a Ukraine, its a Nationalist shithole.
Was massive poverty mass starvation and cival war part of you shit nattie plan?

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Where did "homogenious"[sic] come into it?

Why are Moskali so stupid…?
No one has died from famine in the new Ukraine, so by that reckoning it's doing a lot better than its Soviet predecessor.

Replace "right" with "opportunity" then.

Irrelevant.
Nation-state does not need nationalism to function. Swiss confederation is a good example of this.

Facts say otherwise cucko.

You Nazis lost in Ukraine.

So basically you goofed and now you're backtracking.
To reiterate: nationalism has succeeded in making nation states the absolute standard form of government in the developed world.

What do you mean by "function"?
It needs nationalism to even conceive of itself. Why would you organise and give autonomy and sovereignty to a nation if you didn't believe in nations?

wew

but if rome was an empire and now they're nations maybe the next evolution is commmunism

Spookposting is fun, but at some point you have to get off the fence.

Absolutely. But I can't see nations just fading away once communism gets here.

I'm not a Nazi.
Ukraine went to shit because of the breakup of the Soviet Union - not because of nationalism.
Ukraine is run by shitty, conservative democrats, not fascists.
If nationalism were some kind of spooky economy-ruining spirit, then most of the developed word would have gone to shit.
Russia is illegally occupying Crimea in defiance of all international norms, and is responsible for the war in Eastern Ukraine.
The DNR and LNR aren't leftist entities - they're pawns of Putin.

Confederations,Unions and Federations will do just fine.

Haplotypes, fucker. Also have you talked to a black person? They're completely different.

No fucking shit. The white people that grow up in the same environments act like they do too. Retard.

Nationalism killed Ukraine cuck boy. Look at
Ukraine is run by shitty far-right nazis that banned Communism
I does destory economys look at
Crimea is Russia
DNR and LNR aret leftist entities and they kill you right wing cuckolds every day.

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Can communism raise a non-parasitic black person population? DOUBT

Says the right wing pussy.

Can a Holla Forumsack make an argument? DOUBT

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Can Holla Forums argue in good faith?
IMMPPSOBRU

Still waiting on that argument.

leeeeeel

The actual delineation into races is arbitrary and useless even in that case

I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that rightwing is the politics of the reptilian brain.

Here, have some Eco.

interglacial.com/pub/text/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html

You are a dumb as one.

No, I think we should recognize their mental ability and that they know they are doing wrong and cave their fucking heads in

Nationalism is simply the innate tendency towards community feeling at its weakest, before it devolves into full blown apathetic internationalism aka "I love humanity, just in general, not the particular" (aka Holla Forums)

holy shit lol 'yeah we got PEWDIEPIE take that'

kekko

btw our version of kek should be xax it's russian for "hah"

i.e. refers to the sole example. You are stating that pewdiepie is the only non-submisive white man.

No.

What? The problem is that people always trend towards nationalism and holding onto their spooks, that's why leftism has always been such an uphill battle.

Internationalism > nationalism of any brand.

What

Nationalism is a 19th century idea

yeah it's totally Putins that is behind novorussia. it has nothing to do with the ukraine gov being full of nazi sympathizing russiophobes

civic nationalism = useful spook
if you create a functioning socialist republic, why shouldn't you celebrate the republic as the best nation to exist. If you successfully created a socialist republic, than that's a pretty fucking big accomplishment

Хорошо!

Nazis like Svoboda and Avoz have almost no representation in the Verkhovna Rada. It's just a bunch of conservative democrats. That's a myth.

Hurr durr nationalism doesn't work.

Seems to work just fine to me. Would work even better in a post capitalist economic system though ;^)

Is impossible without nations. I mean how the fuck do you have cooperation between nations without the nations?

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All of those are made up of nation states in modern times. But even iron age European tribes would form them occasionally. Bringing them up is not an argument against tribalism or the nation state.

Nationalism works perfectly and is a very good tool to mobilise the masses and when fused with socialism it can uplift a country in a decade. The average joe doesn't give a flying fuck about world proletariat, this is why communism have failed

wtf I love labour now
post more tracer, my dick demands it

Holy shit common sense on Holla Forums.

But how can nationalism work when nations aren't real?

And as this wholly original thought left user's mind and onto the screen before him, all of the world's nations evaporated, and its politics bent to his will.

You know throwing out things that are tangible to others just because it better fits your ideology wins you no support.

Mobilise the masses for nationalism and not socialism undermining the very goal of the movement. Congratulations you just fucked yourselve for power. Have fun with trying to balance your quest for power by playing the masses for fools and actually implementing socialism.

Yeah well good luck eliminating tribalism because that's been apart of humanity as long as humanity has existed.

Even the USSR you probably masturbate to everyday used russian nationalism during it's darkest hour the second world war and the great rebuilding, to boost the morale, make people work and fight harder. It's also the nationalistic period right after the war when the Soviet Union was lifted into it's greatness, the decades after it were nothing but slow and static decay. Do you really believe that when Gagarin was sent to space the soviets had workers of the world on their mind? Nigga the only thing they thought at that time was "Hell yeah Russias No.1 fuck america". Nationalism pleases the hardcoded into our nature tribal instincts bare, grey socialism out of it's autistic nature neglects

I said nationalism+socialism not just nationalism.

Stopped reading there

You are so fucking stupid.

Nationalism seems to work quite well in North Korea

REMOVE UNIONISTS

I agree. Get that bra out of here!

hehe

Ackchually that's a bikini top.

I am following my self-interest. "Nationalism being unworkable in reality" is a completely idiotic statement, it's the easiest thing in the world to implement as most of the stucture is allready there. If internationalists were deported all the artificial issues would b solved.

Nationalism is the weapon of last resort for porky shaped by porky wielded by porky, it has no substance outside of what porky propaganda makes it. You can try to get into a propaganda war against the right and capitalism but that wont be successful at all.

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guess elephants are the superior lifeform eh?
also

Exactly.

Nothing is real and everything is permitted.

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Why that reaction? I just hate using something that makes me look like a reactionary

Why would you post a thumbnail user?

How many butthurt nats are in this thread lol.

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Communism is not real too but you try it anyway.

it's true nationalism doesn't work. nationalism is idpol.

What physically exists is irrelevant, what is believed to exist is what truly exists. Everything else is nonsense - unless you can pierce belief.

2+2 must be 5 in economic data, yet 4 in spaceflight and 3, or even 4 again to win an argument if necessary. Simultaneously. Provided you can keep track of all the different values and prevent anyone espousing the counter being taken seriously, it matters not what they are in real life.

Good bait 10/10

It's run by literal fucking oligarchs just like Russia; only the latest set of oligarchs are fraternizing with fascists and have integrated their paramilitaries into the Ukrainian army.

A line on a map does not make a nation

No the nation makes the line matter by exerting violence upon all who would cross it without the consent of the nation.

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"8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies.

When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers of Ur-Fascism must also be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.

9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.

Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex. Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world. But such "final solutions" implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age, which contradicts the principle of permanent war. No fascist leader has ever succeeded in solving this predicament."

You know when I used to be drifting into full on Holla Forums faggotism these two points right here were one of the niggling doubts or points that kept me from fully committing, its kind of funny, I was buying into the narrative and goose stepping with everybody else but there was some squirming sense of doubt lurking in the back of my mind that something wasn't quite right here that there was a structural failure in the ideology they had constructed and I was so anxious that nobody else could see it or would just ignore it whenever I brought it up. Its why I never fully committed.

Its why I was drawn to Holla Forums recently, you guys are giving voice to the serious doubts that I had in my mind over it all, that is, that we were walking over a rickety unstable bridge that was going to collapse. This Eco guy just put it in such a better way than I ever could, I should probably look into him.

So you admit that I'm right then? Ukraine is run by shitty democrats, not fascists.

It's collective ownership based on occupancy.

Nationalism works so well that every developed country in the world is now a nation state, and most people can hardly conceive of a country outside of nation states.

Nationalism isn't at the whims of Porky. It's whatever the masses make of it, and it has the potential to be proletarian and revolutionary.

This. Nationalism will still be around post capitalism.

wait, white nationalism is wordfiltered?

nationalism naturally leads to Imperialism left unchecked, I am extremely skeptical of long term national self determination

t. Wall Street shill.

Globalism is not internationalism, Holla Forums

nationalism is fine given the material conditions of the time, ideally we will revert to monarchism once all the bourgiousie internationalist-capitalists are exteriminated

If you're going to shitpost at least put the Nazbol flag on.

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THISSSSSSSSSSS

tracer is worst girl

Civic Nationalism only works if the nation has strong ties to its own cultural identity and if those from outside the country are willing to assimilate and integrate fully.

The melting pot meme is from a turn of the 20th century play. While race does have an effect, it is not the be all end all for a nation to welcome new citizens, due to the fact what makes the nation unique is its history, literature, food, mores, social cues and music.

Otherwise, you just have butthurt cultures camping in other nations, creating mini-villages in major cities. All cultures homogenize unto themselves. Get rid of that and you'd be on your way to internationalism. Other than that, its futile.

Here.

Widdow is best.

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Globalism is closer to the Marxist understanding of the word Internationalism that it is to the understanding that Internationalism is cooperation between nations because both of the former seek the destruction of the nation state.

Wew.

I know very well what it is. The Marxist understanding is not the only one nor is it the most widespread.

You are wrong the CIA the United States and NATO in the 80's started to heavily fund and spread Nationalist feelings throughout The Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.
Nationalism is one of the factors that are directly responsible for the dismantlement of the USSR and Yugoslavia.

So what? if Russia didn't rushed to occupy Crimea, there would already be NATO bases installed in it, fuck off Ukropig.

>The DNR and LNR aren't leftist entities - they're pawns of Putin.

so what? at least they aren't pawns of NATO and western Hegemony and Imperialism.

This has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Again, this isn't really refuting the part that you quoted. Your entire argument is "it's okay for Russia to break international norms and breach others' sovereignty, because NATO is worse".

Same again. "Everything is shit, but my shit is better than your shit".

What am I supposed to be arguing against here?

I suppose if you were working particularly hard towards being disingenuous then yes, they are the same when you deliberately define them as similarly as possible.

dodging the entirety of the points I raised, It's ok you can Ignore it you fucking sissy.

I didn't say they were the same. I said they both want to destroy the nation state and therefore differ fundamentally from Internationalism as cooperation between nation states.

more tracer pls?

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But you literally didn't even talk about the point at hand.
And I asked you at the end of my post - what do you want me to address: the original point or something to do with lesser-evil Russia vs NATO?

fugggen post flood fugg you

I'd a tracer

Tracer a best. Too bad she's gay

that is why we need to rid people of spooks. Most particularly the spook of equality. Its just a social construct. Exists no where in reality

ebin simbly ebin

I did. Several of them. Given each one was different from the others, i'm quite scepitcal of a black essence determining Black people's behavior.

Here we are. Can Holla Forums ever argue with someone without using the word nigger as soon as he is triggered ? I know it's asking a lot from those low Autism Levels college dropouts but still.

Oh come on guys, you made him all triggered. Be nice…

lmao

They weren't as intelligent as Homo sapiens and were wiped out because of it. They left their trace in caucasians, but they probably had little to do with Caucasian Autism Level which is a product of high protein diets, access to abundant ancient wisdom from the Near East and there plentiful metals/lumber resources.

This tracer makes me irrationally angry.

Her tits aren't that big and she's way offmodel like holy shit draw cheesecake right

post moar lewd Tracer please :3

If internationalism is so socialist why are all the porkies pushing it so hard?

imgur.com/a/IkDxo

Internationalism isn't globalism you dumb ape

stop using the word globalism you sperg its globalization, globalism is a fucking buzzword

Internationalism, but not globalism? But nationalism is also bad?

Whats wrong with globalism? Globalism is awesome. Without globalism, we cant unite. Are you saying you don't want globalism? If so, thats very antiglobalismist of you.

you fucking autist

Globalism/globalization is a means of pitting the working class of one country against another. Internationalism is the global solidarity of the proletariat and the understanding that artificial divisions like nations and states are created only to control them for the sake of bourgeois profit.

lol triggered

You know how you say reactionaries are pathetic retards and you can't wait until the glorious revolution, where they'll be lined up and shot?

There are spatial, as well as temporal, solutions to conflicts. Nationalism is a way of avoiding bloodbath and civil war.

Go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo so you can live with the people. Standing in solidarity with them through talking about Marxist theory in an echo chamber for Marxist theory is ineffectual and colonial.

By initiating bloodbathes and civil wars?

Found the moron.

I could get the same reactions from going to Holla Forums

It's worse than the Congo

Balkanization.

In democracies, demographics is everything. The Sailer strategy has its obvious conclusion.

When people say diversity is a strength they almost never explain why.

Do you think something's wrong with the DRC? It's a beautiful country with a rich culture. I could only put Scandinavian democracies and Somalia on par with it.

As for myself, I'm hoping to move to Canada so I can get away from white people who live in trailer parks and Christian fundamentalists.

ok

One thing I didn't touch on but that's, I've got to admit, getting on my nerves, is you essentializing me as dumb. I may be incorrect at times, as anybody can be, but we should define actions, not people. Try to be more understanding and less ableist.

lurk more

wow never heard that one before

I don't mean to intrude unnecessarily on this community which has been swamped with dumbshit redditors anyways, but, if I could make a suggestion, or, if you would listen humbly while I could, what the deuce, tacitly submit a minor adjustment to current operating procedure, assuming, of course, that your current actions do not reflect individual qualities, which, obviously, do not exist, but rather a system of domination by which oldfags oppress and control newfags, and, understand, of course, that I'm not putting you at fault here, because, after all, nobody can be at fault for anything, but, to get a handle on the present issue, and not to guilt you for your behavior, but, merely, to make you more understanding and empathetic, with utmost deference, I would appreciate you pointing out my error or point of departure from board culture, so we can negotiate the merits and validity of current assumptions and practices, and not, if I could press a bit towards the heart of the issue, allow our present traditions and rituals impede progress and unfairly hurt certain disadvantaged community members.

Thank you.

I try to make using the internet as tedious as possible for anyone that tells people to another country, or says cultural marxism, hwite genocide, liberal/loony left, that there's riots all over Europe/their cities are a caliphate, or cites Swedish rape statistics. This keeps me looking youthful and in a good mood, and I haven't had a truly stupid conversation in years.

I understand, comrade, but, if you could be a little bit more empathetic, or, rather, help others at the expense of yourselves (in this case, Holla Forumsacks, racial preservationists, neo-reactionaries, and fascists), I think we could make substantial progress, and I also think you'll find, if you bear with me, and really consider helping others at the expense of yourself, that in uplifting the least advantaged members of your community, your own status will also ascend.

Have you, by any chance, read about the master/slave dialectic?

haha what

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I haven't, tell me more.

Oh, comrade! It's center to the historical application of Hegelian philosophy, and key to understanding dialectical Marxist works. I simply must tell you.

Roast

moralism is bourgeois

One of these days, I'll have to write something on the moral, non-material core at the very center of leftist thought. And you'll all regret shitposting at me.