The Politics of Loneliness 2: Electric Boogaloo

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I didn't read that thread, why don't you just repost it here?

paste it here

tbh, they're probably easier to convert than the centrist fence sitters

alienation and loneliness are interdependent

yes, we should talk to people who are interested in some ceative activities, who are not completely dull, because in order to to understand sublime things you are trying to explain, first and foremost they must have at least some emotional energy which is not utterly destructive.

I don't see how a socialist society would ease my loneliness

why?

By forcing you into more social situations and widening the field of cultural activities and reducing incentives for chosing economic needs over social relationships.

Also womens liberation and free love man.

Managed to find the damn thing. Thanks, Hollaforums!

400+ posts overnight

This thread clearly hit a lot of buttons, and I know that feel why.

Regrardless, I've said before: in a decade or two, alienation will be considered a global crisis, up there with climate change.

While I catch up on the thread, I'd like to bring up two angles here: the repugnant conclusion and the behavioral sink.

First, let's take a look at the industrial revolution. At some point, mankind achieved the capability of producing enough material wealth to minimally satisfy every person on Earth. Needless to say, the economics of capitalism precludes that material wealth from being so distribute, but the potential is there. Now here's the rub: productive capacity has only kept on increasing… but so has the human population. Has the former increase kept on with the latter? We like to think it has, but then again, it's not exactly somethng that can be objectively measure. For all we know, we have moved closer to the repugnant conclusion: we have a lot more people than ever and more material wealth than ever, but on average, their lives are barely worth living.

The second issue is the behavioral sink. Yes, those infamous experiemnts with mice. A whole lot of pseudo-science has been spewed over it, so I'd like to keep myself to the more humble details. Basically, there are three competing theories as to the cause of the sink. One, the most popular, is that simple overpopulation triggers something in the primal brain that makes social order collapse. The second one is that overpopulation keeps the alpha males from enforcing social order (i.e. territories, mating rights etc.), and thus is crumbles not by some psychological trigger, but out of a practical inevitability. The third theory, which I have more faith on, is about social roles. Basically, past a certain population number, there are no more social roles left to be filled; one might think that as population increases, the number of social roles increases at the same rate, but that is a gross assumption. There's absolutely no reason to believe that both increase at the same rate, or even linearly. In the mice experiments, the idea is that the roles have a "hard cap", even as population keeps increasing. This "class" of inherently superfluous and alienated individuals puts too much strain on the social order, and down it goes.

So, am I talking out of my ass here?

shit social skills and a general aversion to people

no thanks
i'm a kissless virgin so that's irrelevant, under any system i'd be hopeless

The answer is to resurrect Pol Pot for his final mission: NEET genocide.

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social skills is mostly a question of training and the right drugs, or meeting the right persons. Legalizing drugs, and meeting more people is incredibly helpful, if a bit painful at first.

You'll realise that this new 'society' is not something external, it's a part of you as much as you're a part of it, for many great philosophers knew that there's a kind of natural, hidden, latent egalitarian order in everything, and the things we're talking about are not yet another political '-ism' but merely this order's disclosure in your life's actuality.

It's an issue that's inherent with capitalism. when the basic tenet is that you either do stuff or starve, of course a lot of people are going to starve even if they want to do stuff, not because there's too many people (there are, but there's still plenty of leg room on the planet, if you catch my drift), but because capitalists are constantly trying to make more and more people irrelevant. If one day you can produce stuff with a team of 10 people and the next day someone invents a gizmo that allows you to produce the same stuff with a team of 3, of course you're gonna fire 7 people, and of course the gizmo is gonna spread and everyone will want to use it. Those 7 people will have to change their profession entirely, especially if they're older than 30.
So yeah, the problem's not really how many of us are there, but the way we decide to produce stuff. Capitalism production doesn't make a lick of sense.

Btw look up dunbar's number.

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This is correct

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how would you feel about a robowaifu?

I dunno, I'm skeptical of the automation problem which has been cropping up lately. I haven't read anything specific on it, but my gut feeling is that it won't really be a problem, because Porky just won't let that potential surplus-value go unexploited, and new economic fields always take a little while before they can be automated.

To use a metaphor I liked, if you ever get fired because of a robot, don't worry, I'm sure your old boss will gladly offer you a brand spanking new job in the field of asteroid mining. Since it's so now, it'll take a long time for it to be automated, so job safety is high. And fatality rates at down to a record low of 60%! (P.S.: must supply your own space suit).

Astroid mining is a really bad example though.

i'm bretty sure we've been talking about this since the sixties if not before. hell, even marx talks about it.
Of course he won't, that's why a lot of useless new jobs are born, like telemarketing. Even that is being outsourced though.
but i don't see what you're skeptical about. automation in the hands of capitalists means that people will either go unemployed or find a job that is even more alienating and pays way less. I don't see how you can argue that working in an outbound call center provides any societal role at all, as you barely earn enough to live with your parents and not be told you're a parasite.

drugs scare me, not my thing

well i don't really feel part of it. most fellow leftists make me uncomfortable

sure, why not?

Why are you putting words into my mouth? You'll never make any friends acting like that.

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes to pass. A lot of rare materials are awfully close to exhaustion, and Porky is already salivating at the thought of nabbing those asteroid with Musk's tech.

I mean lately because I have seen it an awful lot in mainstream news these past few weeks.

Well yeah, I suppose there is that caveat. Jobs continue being created, but they're even worse than before, right? But then again, this being capitalism, you don't need automation in order for that to happen, Porky will gladly exploit you more for any other excuse. Or none at all, for that matter.

There wont be many human jobs in astroid mining.

Well, you're almost certainly not going to get one in capitalism, and if you do, it will be one with proprietary software, planned obsolescence and high prices. We need to fight for the social production of robowaifus.

A short primer for those of you unfamiliar with the Marxist concept of "alienation" -

youtube.com/watch?v=30HeJvE9KCg

well for one, destroying big pharma and making sure people have access to proper mental health care and medication. Second would be to develop actual antidepressants and not the poison they're selling right now to people.

I think a good first step is to stop misdiagnosing alienation as depression - rightfully realizing that your station in life is shit doesn't mean you have a mental illness, it just means you're sad because your life is shit.

Op of the old thread here. I'm really glad you made this and that my call didn't fall on deaf ears.

Nowadays I work with the developmentally disabled, but at one point I did counsel young men of this demographic and over and over I was struck by the sheer number of men there were from 20-30 years old who were severely lacking in any manner of life experience and in a state of profound depression and self-hatred. I quickly realized the limit of my counseling to help these people, and if I'd get too involved they'd get obsessed or they'd latch on to me. I sincerely believe these people are a result of material circumstances and I recognize the consequences if we continue to dismiss and alienate them as leftists

wew

Leftist youth organising is the way forward. Draw from the various traditions of worker youth organisations to resurect it. Give people the experience, let them experience solidarity and let them gain self respect.

Did I say every case of depression was alienation? No, but a rising chunk of them are, and it's only going to get worse as material conditions fall apart.
Do you enjoy being disingeunous?

We are witnessing a eugenic cleansing of humanity. It's for the best. Look how inbred and degenerate the mideast is after centuries of every man marrying.

Does anyone really think it would be in Porky's interest to let the disillusioned, "depressed" youth know that socialism is in their best interest.

I am diagnosed with depression and from my experience (admittedly anecdotal) all I am recommended by my psychiatrist is to change the dosage of the antidepressants I take.

Whenever I managed to talk to a therapist, the treatment always centered on getting any job to "alleviate" my feelings of inadequacy in current society. I wish I knew about Marxist alienation when I went to these charlatans' appointments.

feelings of alienation are just a symptom of depression, not the cause
sometimes.

What fucking world do you live in?

i've forgotten how to make friends

you're retarded mate. and that's not the result of our material conditions either, you're just plain retarded. anyone with common sense can see that economic problems cause mental problems.

depressiongenetics.stanford.edu/mddandgenes.html
imagine being this dumb.

Genes make you susceptible to depression, they don't make you have depression. This is why identical twins don't both have depression 100% time if one of them does.

more like
literally lmaoing at the fact you think if you fix economic problems that mental illnesses will just disappear.

literally every case of depression is like this, genes and being sad not contingencies and consequences ok.
t. world health organization

Robowaifus are the solution, first generation is already in production and will hit the market place within the year.i want to make an open source 3D printable one with instructions so anyone with access to a 3D printer can make one for a fraction of the cost of the realdoll ones.

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You can't all be this fucking blind. Stop putting words in my mouth to win arguments you made up.

It was amazing how all these depressed people caused the mass layoffs in the great recession.

hahahahahahahahahaha

Not all incels are proto nazis. You should whatc the "Shy Boys" documentary, out of the 3 guys interviewed one is a pretty decent person and another is just severely in need of help, not full Holla Forums or PUA.

There is a quote that says "It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society".

I want to point out that NEETs, incels and other "losers" are actually more hostile towards capitalism than the average person is. On some level, they sense that they're being lied to, and what they know as "normal life" is profoundly empty. This why they often reject work, because they don't buy capitalism's bulllshit "arbeit macht frei" ideology. This is why they often (subconsciously) reject traditional gender relations. Because on some level they know these relationships are hollow. Their obssession with perverted or violent imagery and degenerate behavior is a form of rebellion. It's their revenge against the fucked up society that cruelly spawned, and then abandoned them.

Unfortunately, liberal indoctrination is so thorough that these fools can only blame themselves for their suffering. They see themselves as uniquely unworthy. In reality, everyone is lonely. Everyone suffers. The destruction and exploitation of workers is the engine that powers all commerce, but few will admit this. They can't confront the truth of a world that treats all human beings as nothing more than disposable cogs in a money-making machine and violently crushes any that refuse to conform. The average person evades this realization through blind obeisance. Ignorance is bliss. But the freaks do not have this luxury. In their case, this idea manifests as a masochistic self-loathing that further alienates them from humanity. It's the only rational response to being labeled human trash. Yet even as they reject the possibility of a happy normal life, this human trash can't help but desire the things that have been rendered unattainable for them. Namely companionship, pride, and a sense of purpose. But they want these things on their OWN terms and that is why ultimately such losers remain adversaries of "proper" society.

They are revolutionaries at heart.

The biggest difference between us (the Left) and them is that they don't understand WHY things are the way that they are. Most have never even conceived of the possibility of a world in which they would be free of this suffering. This is where Leftist thought enters. The Left offers a thorough critique of capitalism and its accompanying ills. As well as the antidote, in the form of socialism/communism/anarchism. Nothing short of a total revolution can rescue these lost children. We must do all we can to alert them to the true nature of our enemy. Then together, we can fight as brothers and sisters in arms for a world where humanity comes before profit.

9/10 post, this user gets it.

Never said that, but you don't get depression from being laid off, that only exacerbates it.

Yes you fucking can.

>>>/robowaifu/
If you're a poorfag like me come to my board, we are trying to put together robowaifus that are cost effective

Pls don't ban because I'm shilling my board. It's relevant

Hey OP, I only read your original post, sorry in advance that your thread will be flooded with /r9k/ and Hoochie

I'm going to make a thread involving this subject soon, but with a slightly more hands-on manner in a Leftist context.

t. lacanposter from the old thread

Hoochie hates sadbois

I haven't seen Hoochie in ages.

she was here just a couple days ago, you weren't posting in the right threads is all.

Threw him out of the airlock

Make a thread if you want, I'll try to make sure it doesn't get taken down.

I don't think you know what depression is.

I don't know if this is relevant to me, but I do suffer similarly. I'm thirty, divorced, and I pay alimony. I was involved in mgtow for a bit because I felt that my life was pretty much permanently in the shithole because of women sometimes I still do

I really don't think I'll trust women again, but I also recognize that my feelings are really the result of material circumstances. It's a sad day when you have a mass of people who spurn relationships and instead opt for strictly casual sex mostly with hookers. Capitalism is killing the human connection between people and making people resent each other for material losses and gains

Maybe I think relationships can't ever be genuine as long as we're in capitalism

The "arbeit macht frei" bit is a work of genius, user

Not sure if it's relevant enough to the board for a thread, but I post it when I see genuine interest in the topic. Thanks though

I know that feel, I think greed has more to do with it than anything though. Although social status plays a role in attraction. You can always join the robowaifu party

Does anybody here have any updates on the upsurge of hikkikomori members of the JCP?

No, the two of you did.

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I can't even blame you for hating women. No joke.

gud boast

when my uni's socialist club put these posters around campus it caused a shitstorm with the liberals, saying we were "politicizing" mental illness.

There is depressive personality disorder, which is chronic, and there are depressive episodes, which virtually every human being will go through at some point in their lives. The latter definitely can be caused by loss of employment.

Of fucking course liberal scum would whine about fee-fees instead of, you know, the actual depression caused by capitalism in the first place.

Kek

Are happy couples blissfully in love, having jobs they enjoy and thrive in, also caused by capitalism?

Is everything that can somehow be related to capitalism, caused by it?

Well, they jobs they have are probably due to capitalism, yes.

It wouldn't. People here are seriously delusional on this subject.

Government provided robowaifus would definitely help

user, you have touched on a subjected I talked about on Holla Forums, on how I realized I understood the mentality of a suicide-bomber. Alienation in a deep, fundamental level. We're "lucky" in that, as you said, we have some knowledge as to the cause of our malaise. Rightwingers and apathetic types are less lucky, and go down unhealthier paths. Now if you or I were born in a miserable village in the ass-end of the desert, well then suicide-bombing is just about the closest you can get to fitting in and having a sense of purpose.

We the radicals of all stripes, who can't stop feeling in our bones that something is not right. That the world is somehow off-center. We who fell through the cracks. We are the living dead.

I agree with you for once.

That seems too broad a question, but I'd correlation does not imply causation. If tomorrow I met the woman of my dreams it's very possible that my depression would be cured, regardless of the whys and hows of how we met.

I wasn't the guy you were talking to.

And everyone hates hoochie.

Every once in a while xe really drops science in a thread, it's beautiful. It's such a shame it happens so haphazardly. If only we could find the pattern…

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hoochie is a great poster tho

You're basically right. While there are exceptions, most relationships under capitalism can be broken down into two people simply exploiting one another for sex, money, emotional fulfillment or some other need. Capitalism worships "love" as this quasi-magical yet highly formulaic event that is made out to be the sole purpose of our existence. A ridiculous amount of media is devoted to this idea and it's accompanying rituals (especially marriage). Through books, movies etc. a set of rules and expectations are built up that define for us what "love" is and how it should take form ultimately robbing love of its authenticity. People are basically trained to think of love as a commodity they must acquire in order to achieve happiness. The end result being a society completely obsessed with unrealistic ideas about romance and people that long for this experience so badly it destroys them (incels, for example).

When I was younger I hated women because I was unpopular and felt like I deserved more than I got. I had the same vapid idea of "love" every brainwashed teenager gets from consumption of mass media and it made me miserable. I had one serious relationship and it was (in my mind) everything pop culture told me it would be but it eventually ended. At some point later on I completely gave up on the idea of romance and it was the most liberating thing I've ever done. I stopped thinking of women as being "women" and I found it much easier to talk to them. Suddenly I was having more sex than I knew what to do with. I stopped hating women because having no-bullshit relationships with them taught me that most of them are just as pathetic and sad as I used to (if not more so). It further disillusioned me with the old-fashioned idea of "love" but it also showed me that real authenticity in relationships IS possible if you're willing to abandon childish ideas of "love" and just focus on forming bonds and shared feelings/experiences.

This is why although I despise Red Pillers, I think they and MGTOW kind of have a point. The biggest problem with them is that they channel their frustration into woman hateric ideas when really women should be empathized with, if not pitied. Girls have fallen for the same bullshit we men have but often twice as hard. Ultimately, I do believe that love exists I just think the popular depiction of love is bullshit and that people are being brainwashed into craving it to an unhealthy extent. You don't really NEED a significant other to have a fulfulling life and if you do have one your relationship need not resemble the ones you see in anime or whatever. People should focus less on having a "cutie waifu" and more on just forming authentic relationships.
Some Leftist writers like Emma Goldman influenced my thinking here. I highly recommend reading her essay "Marriage and Love" where she completely tears apart the neoliberal capitalist conception of those ideas.

only sometimes

Loneliness and isolation aren't problems. So-called mental illness isn't a problem either. The problem is this interconnected society that seems hellbent on destroying persons and clumping them into a mass of slaves, all vying for popularity, fame, wealth and power, hoping their owner gives them a few brief, scant moments of freedom. To lash out, to want out of the great machine is deemed a symptom of mental illness. An isolationist, non-capitalist and self-sufficient society, where no one talks and people keep to themselves to me seems like the ideal society, the society that should be strived for.

Women are both conditioned to consume as much as possible, while simultaneously being transformed into commodities themselves.

Which is one reason why we need feminism

Good observation. So forbidding them from working and thus stopping them from being economic agents solves half the problem.

This so much. My dumbass extended family has had so many bizarre conflicts over inheritance, and my parents always fought over expenses.

Implying keeping the nuclear family running isnt unpaid work to keep capitalism functioning.

Yes they are, dumbass.

For whom?

Great post

Those that are mentally ill. Mental illness exists scientifically.

Those who aren't voluntarily lonely. I personally get most of my socialization from my shitty job and I find socialization in general very draining. But there are those who aren't like me and really hate being alone, but are forced into by various means.

The warm glow of a monitor is much better imo, pls no forced socialization activities for me.

No, they aren't. Schizophrenics, the depressed, and so on would be better off ditching their so-called medication. It puts a strain on this fucked up society, so I'm for it.

Actually, they'd harm themselves. STFU retard

user, this kind of thinking is one of the problems.

I don't necessarily think so, as long as you're willing to achieve X. Even if it isn't As great as you though perhaps the journey is worth more than reward?

of course they fucking did.

(social) liberals are all about the personal being political provided it's the right personal thing and political in a way they are OK with.

Right now, mental illness being treated purely as a "disease" in the sense that it is like getting the flu or a birth defect is profitable not just to big pharma but also to liberal activists, many of whom are at college getting degrees in psychology or other fields that directly profit from treating it in this way.

Looking at mental illness as something that is at least partially caused by social and environmental conditions means that not only does it cut into their potential future wealth, but also displays the paucity of their activism and even potentially their social status as "having" a mental illness is very fashionable in those circles.

But ultimately, it's like campaigning for better treatment of respiratory disease in Beijing while ignoring the polluted death clouds that periodically descend over the city and the industry and social order that produces them.

Daily reminder that wizardchan has always been lefty

Sure enough, the problem is that we (as in: humans) don't really understand what's going on in our heads at any given time and we end up pursuing stupid shit that fucks us over in the mid-to-long run.

Since we're talking about relationships, ask anyone who has been in a long term successful relationship whether they ever thought they would end up with the kind of person they ended up with. I guarantee 8 times out of 10 they'll say no.

I remember that when I was a teen I was one of those "oh why can't I find a girl who loves comic books and vidya?" kinda people. Actually having a relationship I found out how silly that premise was. But in the end most people look for a SO in exactly those terms, whether they want someone who's attractive or someone who shares their hobby, etc.

Some people have luck and happen to find someone they connect with. It's not really something you can actively pursue, because your douchenozzle brain will never know what you really need.

Now by no means I'm saying abandon all hope and start shitposting about roasties: just be aware that desire is a terrible beast.

There are droves of psychologists who will tell you that mental illness is caused by social and environmental conditions, and there are droves of people butthurt that they say this instead of designating out of the norm characters as lazy, evil or whatever.

what their campus libruls were mad about is literally what they said. people really think politics is a rude thing to talk about, especially if it's out of the overton window.

you don't post this daily you FRAUD!

youtube.com/watch?v=Akz2efTdJ-E

It cuts into their wealth only in so far as those companies that are not part of the transformation process of turning social consumption into profit - i.e. play no role in the mediation of relationships - lose out.

More accurately, the production of profit according to a commodity logic is not incapable of overcoming the social and environmental contradictions particular to the relationships which form those mental illnesses; that profit latches onto one historically specific form, the notion of 'disease', is because it exists as a general social condition.

What you're ignoring is the way this entire process can be transformed into a deeper justification for the repression of any attempt for political opposition outside and yet within an accepted bourgeois regime, either in 'formal' institutional settings, or in the day to day relationships which prevail like a rising tide for those that suffer from these illnesses.

The main implication in this is that mental illnesses are peculiar to social relationships, but are transformed into differentiated positions of wealth, which reflect back the former as a property which begins with the distribution of the latter, so that exposing meaningless abstractions of which 'Liberals' are well aware is not only useless, but useful as a way of legitimating Capitalism as a social and economic order.

'Liberals' depend entirely on the contradictory circumstance of this legitimation, remaining moral zealots defending some vague personalized ethic of human rights in one instance while inflicting violence on others in doing so.

Wrong version. I meant to post the "Entertainment!" version

Excellent analogy.

How about abandon all hope, don't shitpost about roasties and read theory.

At least that is what I did.

Good post user, I hadn't considered it that way

Holy shit I didn't know people who felt this too existed
Though my uncomfort extends basically to any group that enjoys something that I also do

Well, hope IS a trap, user.

are you kidding mate, it's a pretty common sentiment in here.

check out this thread it's sorta related to the "increasing isolation" and the "tfw no gf" as it's had effects on different ideological groups

pretty good thread and has lots of good analysis

yes. look at the thread in 8ch.net/leftypol/res/1439302.html for more stuff about NEETs but basically yeah

the left needs to be able to appeal to NEETs, incels, autists, and other form of lumpenproles who have been made completely unnecessary and useless to capitalism itself.

if your leftist movement isn't warmly welcoming to them then they'll just take their angry self-hate and alienation to the other people willing to welcome them and tell them who's the bad people who fucked up their lives and you don't want that :(

this is why, even if i could, i am never getting married

I'm finding myself asking quite exactly was all that bullshit you used to do and what you mean by "stopped thinking of women as being "women"". Did you use to be a fedora tipper or something?

Oh, and also
That kinda seems to me to be the same thing.

are you shitting me?

Saved

would recommend seeing a lacanian psychoanalyst if possible.

holy shit my man this is exactly what I think

bumping because I want answers dammit

Finally a good thread about this. I want to tell something about this too. I am a social autist with few friends and never had a gf, and I browsed robot boards for a long time, although I never bought into the shit they push like women hate or Holla Forums or volcelism or normies vs robots and all that stupid shit. I mainly observed that a lot of people there are just desperate about getting out of their situation: if you go there there are always all the kind of self help threads and the shit. I remember the lack of magnesium shill scam that got pushed there a lot.
My main pointis that a lot of people realize how society wants them to fade out into wageslaving/suicide, but they don't realize how this can be attributed to capitalism's ferocious competition mindset. Obviously porky doesn't give a shit we don't have a gf he wants us to work 8+ hours a week and be good slaves.
In fact the best threads I had here where the ones about wage slaving and similar stuff, a lot of people there realize there's something wrong with work and stuff.
The problem here is that Holla Forums alt right bullshit stuff turned their problems into idpol. So not only they are le white male now but they have the "virgem" idpol too.obviously since a lot of them are social retard that are laughed at wherever they go they tend to create safe spaces where these ideas get radicated into their minds.
Imho the way to fight this bullshit is to convince them to drop the virgin autist idpol that only hurts people like us but at the same time acknowledge this stuff as a serious symptom of capitalism. In fact imho it's an important part of the social problems that capitalism creates.

I am disgusted by robots. I want everyone to be well adjusted and not socially retarded. That's exactly why I want to enact some kind of systemic change to help them out

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"Free love" is just the expansion of capitalism to a sexual market. It is right-wing as fuck.

Like it or not sex already functions like a market

Build community, kick out the fuckwits.

We've got converts and elitists riding on our coattails, and they're holding this process back. The simple answer is to engage people who are lonely and unengaged and build from there.

The patriarchal relations that existed previously were even further to the right. They find their origin in feudal society after all.

Except they aren't patriarchal, they're more defined by women maximizing their sexual capital than anything.

traditionalism = rule by men, this is a stupid feminist fallacy.

A significant portion of this board's user base is from halfchan, they can be saved

When I say patriarchal, I mean it in the truest sense of the term, a set of social relations where women are effectively the property of their father or husbands. I don't mean the bullshit way the term is thrown about these days.

And yes, "traditional" society was certainly structured in such a manner.

Okay. I wasn't ever a fedora-tipper I was just really desperate for a girlfriend. But after a certain point I "gave up" on finding one I and decided I didn't need women after all (this took a lot of willpower). I didn't "swear off" women but my goals/expectations changed. Instead of wanting a GF (and the emotional fulfillment I thought it would give me) I decided to "settle" for casual sex and friendship.

The difference is that people looking for love are usually looking to fulfill a deep-seated emotional need.

On the other hand those that seek relationships for the bonding experience itself don't have that need. All they really want is companionship (and/or sex).

Hue?

It was quite possibly the very first market.

I'm getting a vibe about how getting hung up on the destination creates suffering, so you should focus on the journey. Am I getting it?

Kind of. I'm saying that "love" itself is bullshit. At least the popular conception of it. Love is supposed to be a noble, pure and selfless thing right? Where you value someone more than your own life. But that's not how it works in reality. The vast majority of relationships are completely selfish in nature. Take your typical marriage. Why do people get married at all? To pool their income and get tax benefits, to be able to raise kids easily, to have a reliable source of sex and to ensure they never feel lonely. They might talk about being in love and even believe it - but listen to married couples bicker and what topics they are fighting about and you'll see what I mean. The same is applicable to almost all relationships. It's just people using each other to satisfy their needs.

It's the same for lonely betamales, they just want someone to fill the hole in their heart. Even if they do manage to get a gf, it won't make them a better person. Nor will it even be authentic "love" since they'd just be using their gf to satisfy emotional needs. And their relationship will be almost certainly doomed to fail anyway (like most relationships do). The only way to stop that from happening is to get married and devote the rest of your life to satisfying your partners' needs. Your life becomes an endless series of arguments and compromises, haggling with them over pointless shit while your soul slowly dies.

Or you can just say "fuck all that" and embrace independence. Free yourself from that obsession. Direct your energy into something more productive and you'll start to feel a lot less miserable. And if/when you do develop a relationship it'll be a more authentic one because you did so purely out of a desire to be closer to someone and not because you were using them to fill a hole in your heart.

not hue just memeing this whenever I can

dear god this movie was depressing

I'd like to see your data and methodology for coming to this conclusion

Well, you caught me. I forgot to supply the rigorous scientific proof necessary for a subjective discussion of human nature. If you want to dismiss my post offhand because of that - feel free. My intention was only to provide some food for thought. I'm far from the first person to hold this viewpoint though. If you're really interested in a scientific analysis of the morality (or lackthereof) inherent to human biology I recommend starting with Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene". In the meantime I hope I've at least inspired some people to re-evaluate their beliefs and form an analysis of their own rather than passively accepting the cultural norm.

Let's be honest, that's usually true. Incels and all that.

nigga i got laid because of comic books
in fact, i got laid thanks to comic books' autistic brother, manga.

I got laid because of my organized and documented reaction image folder.

I think everyone is taking sex a bit too seriously

Anybody got a acreenshot of Hoochie's /r9k/-esque breakdown?

Lucky fucker. All my comic books ever got me was dust mite allergy.

No….my weakness….talking like /r9k/ on an image board….don't show anyone…

Keen as heck to see this.

I don't know what he's referring to I've had several. I think it was when I said I hadn't had sex in a couple of months? I don't know, when you say breakdown so many times it kind of loses its meaning as a word

I don't even know how i did it tbh but there's hope, user. if i did it there's hope for everyone.

Isolation is becoming more common because entertainment is making it more comfortable.

Social relations almost always create shy, alienated outcasts. People who are socially adept think people are, for the most part, pretty decent, but that's because well connected people are useful and powerful, so they're treated better. There are always going to be losers, reared chaotically in broken homes, neurologically damaged, or passed through a gauntlet of bullying for some social or physical deformity, and, generally, nobody will not go out of their way to integrate them.

I think this is, at heart, the reason I'm a reactionary sort of communitarian. A post scarcity left wing society, with absolute liberation and absolute freedom, sounds as hellish as possible to me. "You may do anything, so long as you do not hurt anybody. You may even kill yourself, if you like", is not a good organizing principle. People are garbage, and a workless ancom society would be a lifetime of high school. It's also pretty obvious the radical left does not care about suicidal NEETs on wizchan, but even regards them with defensive callousness.

There are people you like talking to, and people you don't, and it generally has very little to do with capitalism. Friendless children will still grow into voiceless adults, and the most you would do is give them VR headsets.

This kinda points towards a human nature spook in your logic. Regardless, I can see how a society based around "do what thou wilt" seems unworkable, but it seems like one of these things that we will only know when we reach it. The idea that "total freedom + infinite resources = liberated spirit" is admittedly optimistic.

And I don't think we're tough on wizchan. God knows we have a lot of people in a very similar situation. The thing is, well, you can't save everyone, let alone online. I mean, we can't even solve alienation amongst ourselves.

Basically. People want things from social interactions, and not everybody can produce those things at an equal level. Boring, obnoxious, or ugly people are shunted off into isolation, becoming untouchables who normal people cannot imagine becoming, and are therefore excluded from empathy and not even considered a social problem.

A post-hierarchy social system depends either on

1) people suddenly becoming so intensely empathetic they no longer care about the content of social interaction, and just want to feed each other attention,

2) near equivalence of psychology, temperament, and capability for everybody alive,

3) friendship and sexual relations becoming subject to puritanical guilt and resentment (social hierarchy is converted into complaining about social hierarchy, and talking to the kid with Down's syndrome becomes a sort of virtue signalling).

1 is almost definitely impossible without biological meddling that may as well eliminate social interaction altogether, and 2 and 3 are dystopian. Leftist handwaving about the superstructure is absurd.

I would much rather have a society with vertical integration that finds friendless kids and puts them in classes together, and that society will not be an ancom one where student government weasels make most decisions and social misfits spend thousands of hours in committee meetings without saying a word.

Please reply to my effortpost

ive had this worry, it seems like some leftists want utopia for hot popular people, this is moreso alot of the green types but also some anarchists. I'm just a market socialist, not an ancom, but technological progress, which would be better distributed in a leftist society helps this alot. People who are ugly will have access to improved plastic surgery/body modification technology. People with disabilities will be able to cure them and have better access to forms of assistance. Socialism also helps people who aren't compatible with many around them due to freedom of movement. Social life would probably be way better if people weren't financially tied to a job in a specific place. The internet is a glimpse of that social possibility that could be greater with economic freedom. Even weird outcasts can usually find internet people they are compatible with

What bothers me about plastic surgery is that, as far as I know, it's generally not done until maturity. If you're hideous, and you get plastic surgery and have hideous kids, they will also have miserable childhoods.

In some cases this is really debatable. I can imagine autism going uncured, for example.

Sort of? Most lonely don't broadcast being lonely, and are even ashamed of it. You don't have to be as inhibited online, particularly under anonymity. It's not impossible that people could make communes for friendless losers, incels, etc.

I expected you to bring up drugs or virtual reality. You're generally right that technology mitigates this. It may also worsen it, to the extent it half solves the problem and leads more people to isolate themselves. That's kind of the case right now.

ah just admit it guys. Women's sexuality has been liberated. They now how the free choice to hook up with any guy they want and have the choice to marry any guy they want. they have be given much freedom and look how they use it. They bang chads, bang more chads, and ignore a beta guy until they absolutely need him for resources in their 30's. i see no reason why this would change in a non-capitalist society. feel free to refute me.

Name a way in which a functioning socialist society would be worse than this one.

Well I suppose that "boring, obnoxious or ugly" people will be a problem for a long time, but who knows. I think it falls back on the issue that we'll only know when we get there. A new social order is hard to predict.

And in that vein, I think you're contemplating too few scenarios. There are much more possibilities. Specifically, your view of the "student government weasels" brings to mind old Soviet-style politicking that people learned from early on. It's of course not something we desire. And about the friendless kids, it's funny you mention that because, you see, the entire world is going right now through a crisis of alienation. More and more people being disconnected from their own families, societies, nations, everything. And no one is doing a thing about it. It quite literally can't get worse. Helping the social rejects might not be exactly a priority considering how many problems in the world there are, but it has a better chance of being addressed in a socialist system than it is now.

Is that the post you mentioned?

yeah, with autism though you don't "cure" it but you find ways to mitigate the negative symptoms. I could see some solid treatments in the next 20-30 years that are basically better ways to mitigate things like social anxiety, or sensation overload. Autistic people can definitely improve their social skills, especially if they are given aid, education, and accommodation. People in a socialist society if they are less overworked and underslept will likely have more energy to be generous and accommodating (not being totally utopian on this cause it won't be perfect, but definitely better than what we have now). The idea of finding kids who struggle with socialization (or rather the ability for kids and parents to better choose where they live and go to school) is a good one.

I like virtual reality and drugs also, and I see potential in those as well for a ton of people in general. But I think that socialism/post scarcity leftism will greatly enhance social life, and that people who struggle with socialization will especially benefit from this. It's not a complete perfect utopia, and it's something that will benefit from a variety of approaches, and some individuals may still decide to socialize minimally, but it would be in light of having many options and choosing that one as opposed to having no or limited means to socialize.

These sentences could dismiss all Marxist theory.

I think it depends on the socialist system you're talking about. In some cases yes, in others no.

The primary advantage you're invoking is freedom of movement, right?

I suspect such a society would have much more isolation, because most bonding happens through regular, involuntary meeting, and a totally free, unintegrated society like I'm envisioning from what you're saying would eliminate that.

It would probably be better than this anyways.

Why? I support socialism. Capitalism makes the problem of loneliness (alienation) worse by creating a society based on consumption and forcing workers to compete with each other.

They're actually easy to win over. You just need to show them some sympathy.
Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of the left is fundamentally incapable of showing sympathy for "loser neckbeard MRAs".

Boys and Girls
If all of leftypol and imageboards aren't helping the loneliness

Why can't we be friends?

Holy shit it's /r9k/ lol

cuz u be a bitch

also, isn't that post self-contradictory. if imageboards aren't helping, why would making friends on image boards help? people need to go out and make friends one on one irl.

What anime

I think I'm in love

They are easily redeemable they just want a friend

he's right tho

Im a rich bourgeois faggot with plenty of income from rent and investments that shitpost here from time to time out of boredom and for reasonable anonymous discussion.

Basically rich fucks are just as dysfunctional as the working class. I don't believe in the "average normal person" meme the average normal person I someone who maintains the appearance of the average normal person on Facebook Instagram and social interaction but if you scratch the surface they are all sorts of fucked up and dysfucmtional.

I also doubt that socialism will solve any of this I already have socialism as in plenty of free time and the ability to do whatever I want and that doesn't prevent you from being a cynical misanthropic fuck. I blame technology and the post industrial economy. I think anarcho primitivists Jacques Ellul and all that have it closer to the truth

Yeah, he's absolutely right. It's just surprising to see someone speak so frankly about this and be taken seriously because of the platform he has, when others who make the same claims elsewhere are dismissed out of hand as irrelevant and "reactionary"

YES, I see the true divide in history as being pre-agriculture and post-agriculture. Not slave society vs feudal society vs capitalist society. I do like my share of vidya but I actually see technological advancement as a detriment. We were happiest as hunter-gatherers. There is ample evidence for this.

Socialism is more than just "material plenty" dumb dumb

I want to bump this thread before it dies because, even though I'm late to the party, it's a subject have been thinking about lately.

I think the way cities have been transformed by capitalism has a lot to do with loneliness.
The best way to meet people outside is to hang around in places where you can share your hobbies and interests with others, whenever it's cinema, music, video games, LARPing, board games, politics, etc.
Sadly, the places were you can do this have been continuously displaced by soulless retail chains. City centers are basically open-air malls at this point.

The state also put too much restrictions when it comes to organizing events in the public space. Playing amplified music in the streets, projecting films, and stuff like that isn't possible without the authorization of municipalities.
And actually, you need more than that. You need money. And to get money you need to trade most of your free-time for some meaningless work that makes you too tired at the end of the day to organize anything.
Big cities, where this kind of places and events still exists, are becoming more and more gentrified and unaffordable for anyone who isn't upper-middle class.

In parallel, the cost of electronics has dramatically decreased during the last decades.
Consequently, people with free time on their hands prefer to stay inside with their computers where they can interact easily with people who share their interests instead of feeling totally lonely and alienated in meatspace.
If there were places where people could meet and play video games together, could jam together, make movies together, etc, for free or negligible costs and without too much time constraints, I think people would be less isolated.

The potential offered by cheap technology have been used to enclose us in our individualistic bubbles, instead of encouraging us to collaborate with others.

tl;dr : Guy Debord was right from the start.

People in a society such as this have lost all meaningful social interaction as a result of the commodification of relationships. People only relate to each other through a means of exchange(if they think they can get something from them) because capitalism has corroded these aspects of society through the ISA. People in a left-wing utopia ideally speaking wouldn't have these problems as the spectacle would be shattered, and people would relate to each other through the labor and interests; not on the institutions of ideology. The massive alienation caused by today's society wasn't something that was present in previous modes of production, and I think it's because of the spectacle's effects on replacing social relations with commodities.

Thw internet alienates people.

I don't know how it is in your country but here, if you play music in a private party you're liable to be fined by the company who "protects" the intellectual property of musicians. I wish I was kidding. They make surprise inspections.

I'm realizing the way I randomly inserted this sentence there just before I posted all of this doesn't convey very well what I wanted to say.

Basically, you need to money to organize almost any kind of event, including events in the streets.
But if you want to open a place where random people can regularly play retro games together freely during the day while drinking coffee and beers for example, you will also need money, and a lot of it.
The consoles and games won't necessarily be that expensive (even though the price of retro games is crazy nowadays), but the premises will be, and most people can't afford this, unless they take a loan and open a business that has to make a profit.
The only alternative is squatting, but the police will harass you in order to protect private property so you won't be able to build something stable there.

Where do you live ? That's crazy.
Speaking of retro games, several bars in Japan tried to do what I was talking about, and video game companies tried to make them pay property rights for that, so you can only play demo cartridges at those places now.

No no, it was clear. I get it.
And you don't really think about it until you have no money. I'm unemployed and even meeting my friends without doing anything (going to a restaurant or to the movies, etc) is a cost.

italy
they're called SIAE and they're basically legalized thugs. I've heard of musicians (musicians!) forced to pay them a fine in advance because they didn't have a subscription to their totally-not-compulsory service so the guy could go to his office and check that the musicians didn't play anything that was copyright protected. It's ghastly, I honestly want to see them hang.

yep, that's exactly the kind of shit SIAE does.
And remember that message that popped up on vhs tapes and dvds, that said you're not allowed to screen the movie in a public place? you paid for the movie but you can't show it to your friends, that's what that means.

Good points. Anywhere in my city that doesn't doesn't belong to some private entity is either a library or are park, none of which are particularly hot spots for just hanging out and meeting people. All the social venues are private and I have no money to enjoy them. So I just sit at home, because what the fuck else am I supposed to do when I have no money and all my friends are working their odd, shifting schedules?

I see, I live in France, and we have a similar organization called the SACEM, but they aren't so crazy. Or I guess they just aren't enforcing the rules too much, fortunately.

It's more a pithy phrase than a developed thought, but since I started the process of getting an official diagnosis of ASD, I can't help but feel like everyone else is actually "the autist", in terms of being self-focused, in their own world and so on. Now you could just call that projection, and to some degree it probably is, but I think there's something to that sort of enforced isolation. Even most communication seems to take place about consumption.
Since I'm lazy, cheap, self-loathing and so on, without much interest in similar consumption habits to most others, my fundamental self image would seem to be incompatible with the one necessary to relate to other people even if I didn't/don't have a developmental disorder with those effects. At some point it dawned on me that I actively agitated this situation by learning about the nature of consumption, because the simple rule consumption will not make you happy is completely true, but also alienates you even more from the vast majority of people who still think happiness lies just beyond the next pair of shoes.

There was some point where I realized even just communicating with people is a market action. You and I exchange information because we feel it will be mutually beneficial. It made me very upset. The idea of such structures being inescapable (even if it's basically just co-opting capitalist economic terms to describe things and you don't actually have to "dissect the flower") is nightmarish. And indeed, so is the world under capitalism.

Strangely I've not yet "crossed the wires" on that sort of analysis, to put it in market terms that every friend I've ever had has fucked off when someone better came along. Truthfully things would be better if I connected the wires in their proper place and then snipped one. I'll stop before I get lost in my own metaphor, or electrocute myself.

the entirety of human relations is based on economic exchanges and has been since the dawn of time tbh, doesn't mean it's capitalist

This just seems like a tempting reason to eschew them all-together. Capitalist or not, when you distil friendship (or indeed all communication) down into terms of utility it becomes an awful beast. (I'm sure in sane terms there's probably a way that under capitalism they're capitalist, and in turn under socialism the idea would be less abhorrent, but something about the specific wording and way of expressing it in modern economic terms makes the entire thing completely disgusting.)

Better to go mad from isolation than play the game.

if you say so

perhaps, but the point is that there's nothing to distil, that really is how we operate. even when you don't get anything tangible from your friends (e.g. favors, money, goods, whatever) you still feel good socializing and they feel good in return. when a friend of yours helps you through bad times, or doesn't materially "help" you but he's there to listen even though he's miserable because you're suffering, he does it because he knows you would too. since when is it bad to do something based on reciprocity?

I've always valued selflessness.
which could just be a rationalization process for being used like a fucking chump, but hey.
Though I suppose self-interest being at the root of it is what I truly fear. If I'm attracted to you for my reasons instead of because of some innate quality of you, that's unsettling for reasons I can't articulate.

To an extent this is all down to the interaction between language and tangible things, but there's a 100% garuntee I can't put the link into coherent words.

I understand what you're trying to say.
consider this: assume there is no selflessness, but everyone does things because they give them some sort or degree of satisfaction. Wouldn't it be a quality for someone to get satisfaction from things that do not derive any "material" advantages to him? For instance, if one does volunteer work (e.g. with disabled or elderly people) because it makes him feel like a good person, gives him the warm fuzzies or whatever, does that not make his actions even more selfless than if he wouldn't? In fact, isn't it an inherent quality of that person that he feels good spending his valuable time to help others?

The biggest contributors to modern social alienation are a direct cause of the Leftist erosion of national identity. It begins from childhood. They eroded the Church which used to act as the glue that held communities together. They destroyed the family, separating children from their parents and stuffing kids into Lord of the Flies scenarios in daycare and public schools to receive state indoctrination and mental and emotional abuse. They imported thousands and thousands of immigrants as a weapon against the native culture and population in order to force a demographic shift and a cultural relativism where everything is acceptable except for the native culture. The let loose the mentally ill and criminals to steal, rape, loot, and plunder the functional members of society. Is it any wonder that we can no longer trust our neighbors who likely don't even speak the same language or share the same values? Is it any wonder we prefer to hide indoors with our video games and internet to bitch about the state of the world rather than go out and face it? Leftism is the root cause of all modern social problems.

who the fuck enforces bullshit like this, seriously, who?

Pretty much everything is at the heart of desire, including helping others, we can find fulfillment in helping others attain their goals, or getting them back on their feet. Whether it be for purely "selfless" reasons, or for mutual gain. Helping others can help fill a lack of something in our selves, and that's not a bad thing in the slightest.

Am I just reading too much into military keynesianism, or is it right of me to think that most of these social ills could be corrected by something so simple as total war (limited to conventional weapons)?

I basically live my life for the purpose of consumerism and I never socialize with others.

I find it more satisfying to shitpost and play video games over talking to others or turbo-wagecucking.

>>>Holla Forums
off you go

National identity means fucking nothing it doesn't feed anyone, it doesn't build roads, it doesn't erect buildings, it doesn't bring people medicine

It
Does
Fucking
Nothing

google "an american utopia"

mpc dot com goes into great detail into the causes of all those problems user, it's much more helpful than Holla Forums's DA JEWS DID IT and Holla Forums's CAPITALISM DID IT

Well you're not likely to literally have someone check your home to see if you're looking at a dvd with your pals, but let's say you have a bar and you play the dvd in your bar without authorization, even if the bar's half empty: you can totally get fined, and they're not even cheap fines.

these people are scum of the worst kind, hiding behind the intellectual property meme they collect a fortune and give the actual artists a pittance. it's like not only the artist has surplus value extracted from his recording company, now we need these people to steal their stuff too.

i know, that's what i'm saying and i wish i could convey that to the other user because i too had those thoughts in the past.

It's literally the antagonism between global capital and the nation-state framework it spawned within and outgrew that's to blame for this though
kys

bump so I can read later

if nations are carved out of ethnic and cultural lines, it does produce a society which has rules that can be understood and contextualised. The problem is that nations aren't always founded upon those lines, thus causing distress, or that attitudes and deep cultures and traditions get losr.
Slick uniforms, flags and anthems mean nearly nothing compared to a groups' attitudes in the grand scheme of things and their changes.

what if I told you this growing alienation is a necessary evil, a step(perhaps down) on the path to a functioning nöösphere based global consciousness. You could almost called it an evolutionary correction into a dead end, but instead of stemming from genetics the change is coming from sociological factors and its happening a lot faster than any "real" evolution could

these people are insanely apathetic but at the same time they are basically ripe for the picking, were the right opportunity under the right circumstances to pop up

Basically our job atm is to figure out how to rebuild and weaponize the neets faster than anyone else does, and do it right

case in point, that quote is from Krishnamurti btw, a real ass nigga