Wow, the leader of Justice Democrats just demolished Holla Forums's shitty ideology in 30 seconds!

Based

fitting that this horrid example of artlessness is paired with an equally horrid example of tactless sperging from a rapist boureioisie faggot

Yet a Lada has a longer life then a 2016 Ford.

Really makes you think…

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total nonsense, a 2006 Focus can last 250,000 miles if properly serviced. a 2002 Civic can last half a million if serviced properly. soviet cars were ugly trashcans that ran decent, couldn't go fast and had no where interesting to go.

Isn't Cenk "What Genocide?" Ugyur the actual leader of the Justice Democraps?

Its so shitty Russian police won't even use it.

Nice try Americuck.

even during the cold war most people in the USSR didn't give a shit about how advanced American technology was.
You show a Russian from 1969s the "modern technology" the free market produced at the time and he or she would probably just wonder why it's so expensive and wasteful.
caring about muh efficency over everything else is pure american ideology, western capitalist products are made to look sleek but they break every couple of years on purpose just so you have to buy a new one.

you people wear on me sometimes

Holy shit. Thanks, cuckdem! Now I know that consumer goods are more important than basic human needs like food, shelter, and health care. Cuba has quality medicine, a high literacy rate, and no homelessnes, but their cars are old and shitty, so it's obviously a failed experiment.

I just saw the goddamn episode and he ignores that cars are made from parts all over the world.

Nissan just had a labor dispute in America and is still going through it. He also ignores that most of the manufacturing in America has moved to China.

So he ignores those horrible issues and just says "we make great cars in America"

This is just false. We don't have a large manufacturing base, as stated above. So what's he going to do when his "objective facts" run into that hard dose of reality and he's on the wrong side of it?

Geez, don't make this guy out to be something he's not. Okay, he's a centrist but he still wouldn't know the issues of the day outside of his own biased views.

The cars of the soviet union were a joke, therefore any socialist system is inherently broken. quod erat demonstrandum.

Well boys time to pack it up. This communism thing is over.

Objectively:

free markets doesn't exist and is a myth.

Holy shit weebs are so cringe-worthy

Fucking retards. Capitalism is a necessary step in human development, but it's long overstayed its welcome.

What is capitalism a necessary step in human development?

Because socialism has a a basic technological requirement for calculation and coordination of the economy. You cannot do this right after feudalism. Automation will bring down capitalism and usher in socialism. The question is, do we get to partake, or only the rich?

ffs

Messy confusing post, cleaned up.

Oh… You mean to say a planned economy when you say "socialism". Friendly tip: Capitalism is not the existence of markets, and Socialism is nothing more or less than democratic ownership and control of the means of production.

I can see where the confusion might come from when a dictator like Stalin proclaims that state capitalism is actually socialism. With that cleared up, I'll ask again: is capitalism actually necessary to transition to democratic production arrangements prescribed by socialism?

Socialism, like capitalism requires a method of coordination. In capitalism, this is done with prices. In socialism, it may be different, but some kind of network will have to be established for different groups of workers to "talk" to each other and bring order out of chaos.

Hurr, we know, dumbass. However, capitalism is defined by not just private means of production, but by wage labor and the law of value, which is how firms coordinate in a capitalist system. The idea that x product is worth n number of y product is only sensible in capitalism because of the law of value and the property of exchange value. This would not exist in socialism, so there must be another method for coordination. It doesn't have to be centrally planned, but there must be a way to do so.

Yes, and you'd know this if you read more theory instead of being a faggot that only posts on Holla Forums.

Your theory must not be all that sound if you're unable to articulate it to a laymen tbh fam. So why is capitalism a necessary step to transition to democratic production arrangements?

Capitalism and a democratic workplace like a co-op aren't mutually exclusive, you nerd. If all firms in the world suddenly went democratic, you'd still have the problem of markets and law of value. This would simply be masked capitalism. Workers would have to exploit themselves in order to compete with other sets of workers. This is both inefficient and exploitative.

Economists often talk about "efficiency of market", by saying that firms should not be cut off from markets and have replicated functionality. This is true in a sense, but leaves out that this only serves capital. In socialism, this would also be a problem, but it would be related to waste. For example, we simply do not need 30 kinds of shampoo competing with each other. If you still have the law of value, exchange value, and replication of functionality, then have you really transitioned into socialism? No, you have not.

In order to fully implement socialism, you must eliminate the law of value. To do this, requires coordination and calculation. You cannot eliminate the law of value simply by establishing co-ops. This is simply collective capitalism.

Pssh, nothin' personnel, kid, but you have to read a motherfucking book.

The economic system of Capitalism is defined only by this series of exchange. Memorize it well.

Capital -> Means of Production + Wage Labor -> Commodity -> more Capital than started with

Markets have existed since long before capitalism and they can exist within socialism too. Perhaps we can do better than markets, but they're not what define either capitalism or socialism.

"what genocide"

does he still actually believe the armenian genocide didn't happen lmao? that's some Holla Forumstier shit

He finally reneged on it a few years ago I think.

No, not markets, but exchange value. You can have exchange value without markets, but you cannot have markets without exchange value. It therefore goes to reason that any system with a market has exchange value and is therefore flawed from the outset. Markets are simply a symptom of a deeper problem.

Frankly I have never found the "self-exploitation" argument terribly convincing.

It's simple. The problem with such a system is that it continues to discipline labor in the same way that the capitalist system currently does. There is still socially necessary labor time. There is still wage labor, and there is still exchange value. What happens to those firms that cannot compete and go out of business? What about those workers? You see, simply having co-ops does not make socialism. We have to go farther than that.

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okay?? sounds fake but ok

>X is great

youtube.com/watch?v=Hrm-rPSCIBw

Your lived experience is reactionary and meaningless.

Soviet cars were usually designs bought from capitalist countries too, weren't they?

Congratulations, an idea even more retarded and more guaranteed to fail than those coming out of hardcore SJW circles.

Varg disagrees.

My point exactly

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He's right though.

He's tight though.

He's fight though.

How will tankies ever recover?

He's light though.

He's night though.

He's sight though.

She's tight no more.

He's might though.

Anyone who repeats the word objectively like that is guaranteed to be a smug no-nothing sheep.

He's eight though.

He's wight though.

No thanks. I'll pass on the money pits on wheels. How like liberal ideology to talk about how capitalism brought about the best cars, but fail to mention that cars are objectively the worst form of transportation and were only promoted because they generated profits for Porky.

2 wite doe

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If only I had a choice.

If you do anything else you're a cunt.

just buy a bike then you poofta

finally someone with a tankie flair is actually making some sense

So basically the entire democratic party and liberal establishment. This is why they're fucking hopeless.

The one reasons to have a car currently are that public transport where I live is shit and I frequently enough need trunk space to move shit around. Only reason people would have cars, ideally, is for fun, with proper transportation being fully automated. Gas has climbed back up to $1.36 CAD too. Fuck.

They really need to read some B A S I C E C O N O M I C S.

Also they forgot the part where we all die from superbugs because new antibiotics are too expensive to develop to be profitable.

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