ARPGs/Diablo Clones

>>>/agdg/29865
like what the actual fuck dude?

The latest POE league is pretty fun.

Isn't PoE pretty casual now? I remember playing it back during the beta and early leagues but they seem to have thrown out a bunch of power creep and consolization since I stopped.

It became casual as soon as we figured out the inherent design flaw causing desyncs in beta (during hardcore races). I always laugh at the shills when they scream "muh lockstep patch"; considering we got the GGG devs themselves to admit to actually fix the game they would have to rewrite the engine from scratch.

WRONG
you're rightbut for different reasons

What?

According to interviews of an age long gone:
Both are correct.
Also Diablo 3 for consoles is the best Gauntlet Clone to date.

you may look at this map first
allsacred.ru/uploads/maps/fullmapancariya_poland.jpg

you successfully pissed me off with this bait, good job

I second Sacred, my all time favorite lootfest

Too bad Sacred 2 and 3 turned out to be garbage.

...

this is why meth addicts deserve all the mockery they can get. They are so disconnected and broken by their dealers, so desperate for the next dopamine rush that even when faced with basic facts about the world around them, they refuse to accept them.

giant worms are always ok in my book

It's because of Titan Quest that I can never play more than an hour of Diablo 2

No diablo 3 is shit you can't even die unless permadeath is on. I stupidly bought this and sacred 2 for xbox 360 without realizing that these types of games are for casuals only.

i dont know if he is going to add it but we are in contact over disagreement and he seemed intrested is some assets

**disagreement

d i s c o r d

...

Nigger what the fuck are you doing

Lookin' good

...

Who is this chaddeus thundercock?

Is Wolcen worth any interest yet?

I am fucking laughing.

Diablo 2 Median XL

There aren't any. Diablo is shit.

holy fuckin shit is that a M.u.s.c.l.e Men figure? i had a fuck ton of those things when i was like 8; polite sage for OT

It is ridiculous how overpowered you can get for a normal run, but still fun, and the few enemies that were challenging could kill me in a few seconds if given the opportunity. Dark elf wasn't even the best for that, iirc. I imagine it gets harder when you get to the expansion, but I haven't gotten to that.

The Lord of the Rings games for GBA, especially The Twin Towers and Return of the King.

Just try them; it's ridiculous how fun they are.

A while back some user turned me on to Nox which I ended up having a lot of fun with.

Also, isn’t Torchlight 2 supposed to be really good? I’ve never played it due to the art being a bit of a turnoff for me.

It gets boring after a while, the rare drop rates are too high if I can remember so you end up not giving a shit about items.

Game wise it's pretty okay, can feel like a slog at some parts of the game but overall it's good until the ending. The final level and boss are so rushed and sudden, then it just drops you into the post-game farming dungeon hub that serves no purpose. Good if you want more of Torchlight, but not as good as Torchlight 1.

Divine Divinity is pretty great.
Imagine Diablo but an actual game attached to it.

What I liked about torchlight 1 is that you can jump in, clear out one or two dungeon levels in 15 min and get out. In Torchlight 2 that's gone, and the maps are huge

TL2 has very boring class design.

I liked what I played of Torchlight 2 but I've been told it was shit.
The mods for it are pretty good- including a post-game endless dungeon and more customization.

Grim Dawn and Path of Exile were both recommended to me. I heard PoE put back all the shit they took out from when SJW bitched at them.

Look up an anime called Ultimate Muscle- it's what they come from. It's a Wrestling show where kayfabe is real and has the fate of the world in the balance.

Diablo 2 was a terrible sequel for multiplayer AHDH kiddies and everything that copied it instead of the first game is equally as crap.

Not at all true of the first game, as says Diablo 1 was more of a 'what if we made a real-time Roguelike' affair before 2 worked out grind sold better.

Though actually the game was originally planned to actually have permadeath and indeed to be turn-based.

It's strange that permadeath got removed, if it was actually planned to be there. It would fit Diablo 1 so much better than Diablo 2!

Grim Dawns really good it's pretty much just Titan Quest 2.

I enjoyed it but the classes were a let down and the game rushes itself the closer you get to the end, the game it feels half finished.

Here's the source on that by the way (was released a few years ago) though most of these details have also come out over the years in various interviews along with a name-drop of roguelikes as a direct influence. I'll try and dig that up later if I can.

It'd have been fine as an optional hardcore mode like 2.

Actually it was the Moria/Angband games rather than the original Rogue that inspired Diablo.

Diablo 2 is the sequel for casuals who like grind over substance.
Were you one of the anons from the chart thread who was shitting on Diablo 2?

Yes I was in that thread too.

Really? I didn't know there was a specific game.

At least you can enforce permadeath yourself by deleting your save if you fuck up.
Kinda hard to remember who owned what if you have a shared chest/storage between save files you've put stuff in.

Yup. archive.is/evAD8
I think it's also in the manual or something.

Found something interesting.

Neat.

Sacred 2 being somehow worse than 1 is a huge fucking meme.
It's a great game.

The lengths at which games go to present us shoulder armor never ceases to amaze me.

You mean those huge edgy things? Those are back armor/wings.
Shoulder pads in Sacred 2 are pretty tame.

PoE is ass. Basically all normal builds are painfully slow and boring, and all builds that require playing the market for more than you play the game are fast and boring.

so did the patches actually salvage it? because the release was a fucking disaster. Crashes, performances issues and bugs. I know the developer eventually released an expansion but my understanding is that they went bankrupt after releasing it.
I bough two copies of it when it came out to play with a friend, but we had to give up on it since it ran so poorly

Actually yes.
Game WAS a broken mess, with requirements too high for its time.
There were fuck ton of official patches, and then there is fuck huge community patch that irons out any shit that was left and adds in quite a bit of content.
There is also mod fixing toxic grass.
So yeah game is totally worth playing now.

well sheeit
maybe I'll finally get my money's worth out of it nearly a decade later

It looks like it was released halfway developement and ends up being a lot more boring than the first one.
I've played the first one through pretty much on all characters except the seraphim but I couldnt bring myself to finish the second one even once.
It's that shit.

Well it does look better than Diablo 3 so there's that.

I'd like you to go into detail, because they play pretty much the same, except S2 having more clear and transparent UI for skills and more variety of everything in general.
I can get it, if it run like shit for you like the user above, but if it didn't please do tell your problems with gameplay.

i still have a physical copy of that Strategy guide

Desing faults are that it benefits nothing from the upgrade to a full 3D enviroment compared from the originals, coupled with the atrocious modeling, lighting and god awfull sound design its much less appealing than the first.
But thats wrong, it has less characters and less combat arts for each character.
I also disliked the fact that combat arts in general have a lot longer cooldowns in general when compared to the first one, because of that the combat is vastly less fun and engaging.

So lets sum it up:
You get all those negatives for inechange for what? 3D enviroment? No thanks.

this game was the blandest shit i've ever played,it's like the end result of what would happen if the developers of Titan Quest hadn't fought for anything and had let the publisher cut everything from the game they wanted in order to make the blandest,most streamlined and sanitised experience possible;even chink Diablo knock offs had more going for them than this

Din's Curse is a unique one. The graphics may look like a turd that's been sitting in the sun too long but it's not every day you come across a Diablo clone that has city management elements. Granted, it can get kind of annoying having to teleport back to town constantly to stop it from being raided by monsters but the concept is interesting and I haven't really seen a game do anything like it since.

Nox has to be one of the most underrated games I've ever played. It's a damn shame it had to compete with/got overshadowed by Diablo, it's a great game in it's own right and actually pretty funny.

Community and mod support for this game is ridiculous.
Community Patch in itself is something worth applauding to, and yet it has shitton of fan-made stuff on top of it.
Oh and CM patch is still being updated, last version dates december 2017.
sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Community_Patch_Changelog

I disagree with your opinions dubs man.
But at least you can appreciate the first one, which is also fantastic.

BladeNsword just wasn't play tested.
I went on to make test character and cheated myself best gems, max level, all skills, like top everything ever you can possibly theoretically do on a hard difficulty.
And went on to fight last boss.
Nigger two shots you, and takes like 20 minutes of spamming the most damaging super attack, which I also cheated since you can't spam it.

Mind you, it's impossible to become this powerful without cheating, it's just not. And the last boss is still almost impossible to beat without cheating on top of cheating.
That game has such strong start, and it just falls apart and become unplayable.
And then if you play on easy/normal it locks you out of stronger gems, making it just as as hard in the long run.
It's a goddamn shame, I really like that game.>>14445946

From the length of the pdf it looked pretty fucking detailed the only strategy guide I ever had was for the Sims.

you are wong, PoE did become casual btu that was done with the ENORMOUS increase in rare item … i remember back in the day when rare was trully rare .. and to be fair, my old lvl 27 character remember it to this day

I'm not wrong about the desync being systemic. Here's the beginning of my build that broke the fucking game back in beta or whatever. It was mostly "Flicker" or whatever at high levels where I could just spam it until the server broke and desync'd everyone.

When you ended up losing Hardcore races because the game was programmed wrong you tend to never look back. Doubly so when you get the programmers to admit to the flaw's existence. Triply so when they programmers post on the official forum they will never fix it because to actually fix it they would have to write the game engine over from scratch.

Playing broken games is 100% plebeian casual-tier faggotry.

That's nonsense. Switching to authoritative fixed timestep would at most require altering collision and some of the netcode. Considering how simplified POE's collision needs are, that wouldn't be a huge effort. Either they're retarded or you don't know what lockstep does.

I made a max attack speed build in standard once that would degrade performance and ultimately cause a crash/disconnect, but that was back in 2015 and who knows if it still happens
youtube.com/watch?v=si7OMCOKN58 skip to 4 minutes

They said that it was impossible to fix desync multiple times, and lockstep didn't even fix the issue

I don't get what you mean.
the game was badly coded to the point of having playing able to break the server with flicker strike? yea that seems to be .. fixed

but then why would you call that fix: casualisation?

It is the increased accessibility/item drop fo rare that did it, not a bug fix
what am i not getting?

See

That we revealed a game-breaking design flaw, and made the devs admit that to fix it they would have to write a new engine from scratch. So they said "no".

After I quit some other builds were discovered to trigger the same desync. Finally they added some option to attempt to mitigate this, but again multiple people discovered the hard way (during Hardcore racing) that it did nothing and the flaw persists.

i understood that, but what i did not was what was the design flaw and it's implication.

what was shown here?

So if I were going to play Sacred should I just go with 2 or should I play 1 first.

Nothing was shown there.

Anywho the issue he's talking about is desync, which was basically the game lagging so hard client side it desynced you from the server and your actions until the server caught up to you were voided.
So lets say you desync for 3 seconds and during those 3 seconds you pop a potion to not die, and then move out of the room. The server doesn't register any of that, but it did register all the monsters that hit you during that time, so you die.
The "fix" was lockstep which is basically the old system of lag freezing you for a few seconds, issue is enemy hits are still calculated during this time when the player can't do anything.

both

That is incredibly shitty and would be infuriating to play.

you see the issue now though yes?
Certain abilities and builds to be playable would make a macro that whenever they used an ability it used the chat command "/oos" which would forcefully resync you to the server

Cool, I’ll hope over to it once I finish Grim Dawn

Are there any good ones for Linux?

I've been loving Grim Dawn lately even though I'm very new to this genre. Can anyone tell me if the expansion is worth getting?
Also is the Titan Quest expansion good? I'm planning on playing TQ after I finish Grim Dawn because I prefer GD's aesthetics and setting a hair more but would like to know if it's at least as good.

i want this
nexusmods.com/sacred2/mods/4/?
but it's behind a (you have to make an account) wall. No - i do not wish to make an account.

then you dont want it enough and thus dont deserve getting it ;^)

true, i would just look at it once and forget about it. But still, i'm very curious about the work done, all i found was censored images.

Just use a temporary email you retard.

blizzard north used to be called condor?

yes. Blizzard had nothing to do with Diablo except buying out Condor and sticking their logo on it.

The third act in TL2 is fucking gorgeous. I absolutely love these spooky forests+big glowing mushroom aesthetics and there is a severe lack of that in vidya. Overall there are a lot of things I dislike about the game but its got a very clean design and you always know what is going on - super simple to tell things apart while some of the other games like poe/gd its usually a clusterfuck mess where big battles you can't really be sure what you're fighting.

From personal exp I've enjoyed GD the most due to all of the neat ways you could build your characters and just gameplay in general never disappointed. TL2 looks fine, has absolutely disgusting human npc models but monsters look good. Building your characters feels much more limited though. POE by far the most ugly looking piece of shit where I could say I only enjoyed two or three areas in the entire game while the rest were boring and plain. GD got me used to having that amazing control over your camera so going into poe's heavily zoomed in camera was absolute cancer. Gameplay was alright though.

tl;dr personally GD>TL2>POE and d3 not included. Does anyone even play that shit anymore?

Prima's official strategy guide that had all the kickass art in it. I traced the monsters and the Warrior in his full armor on occasion It's how I learned shield grips were vertical and not horizontal I might still have it somewhere…

If you've played the Titan Quest expansion, it's quite similar in structure and the proportional amount of content, down to the individual sequence of environments. Definitely worth a pirate, tentatively worth a buy if you liked the base game a lot.

The one thing that I'd love to see Grim Dawn copy from TL2 is mobility skills that don't need a target to work. Stuff like the engineer's dash or wizard's ice teleport that allowed you to dash around bursts of attacks and ping-pong around. Blitz and shadowstrike are nice, but they lack the flexibility TL2's versions had. Unfortunately, due to their code, it's probably a never-ever tier dream.

Yup, Blizzard bought Condor out slightly under a year before release (remember all vidya then was physical only and it takes time to make and ship it). As usual it was a case of a small studio making a good game and then the big-budget sequel being mass-market friendly casualisation.

Is Diablo 2 a big budget release? Maybe it would follow if it was Diablo 3, but I can't see it in 2.

moving just about anything pre digital distribution basically counts as a Big budget release. floppies are not cheap man.

Yes, it was a major thing back when it came out.

meh. you end up one-shotting 99% of the shit you want to capture, and good fucking luck if you're playing a crit build where you one-shot entire mobs.
Besides, performance is at an all time low, and when you start ignoring the league it's basically like playing poor man's standard league

and who the fuck plays standard apart from the biggest grindcucks in the world

please tell me the mods that you're using.

Diablo 2 was made before AAA gaming became a real thing. For how much was spent on its development relatively speaking, it'd be a AA game by today's standards. Blame the demand for graphically and technically advanced games for the rising costs of development and the AAA gaming phenomenon.

Though one can't overlook the fact that before the games crash of '83 studios also devolved into a spiraling trend of overspending on development, with more ambition than ability.

I have it and it is only a challenge on the highest difficulty, and you'll have to use the shared loot chest to build up stat attribute infused equipment to progress thru many restarts. It was a good time, but nothing to write home about.

You can also have a mod for better camera controls and nude textures for female characters with that community patch. The only downside still left is that your character's fog of war doesn't get reset once you advance a difficulty level, making it impossible to be aware where you have been and where you haven't yet.

Reminder than Xanadu Next is superior to Diablo

Grim Dawn is alright. Frankly all the new titles are about as flavorsome as boiled cabbage compared to D2.

What games let you play as a necromancer/summoner with more than like 2 summons. Pretty sure you could do it in Path of Exile, but I haven't played in years.

GD (with expansion), D2, and PoE have all some variety of mass summon build. Don't know about T2, but since it's mod friendly it probably can. I don't know if you can pull it off in Titan Quest, never experimented with the magic heavy disciplines.

In Titan Quest only Nature Mastery has more than one pet available, other three masteries with pets have only one each. And the gear you can get does next to nothing to strengthen them specifically. Grim Dawn is much easier for that.

Not an APRG really but Guild Wars 1 lets you have up to 8 or so.

yeah, if you like to sleep through your games :^)

When you mod TL2 it becomes far better than Grim Dawn.
The modding community of TL2 is big as fuck with a fuckload of shit to add to the game fixing many problems that the game has, from adding more acts, classes and challenging bosses to QoL changes such as more inventory space.

I'd gladly say a few mods that I like to personally use, with that said for me ARPGs are like this: TL2 > D2 > GD > PoE

you're starting to geddan my nerves

if you swallow enough of falcom's semen, maybe the gameplay in xanadu next will become interesting
I wouldn't count on it though

Would you recommend completing TL2 without mods first, then improve it with certain gameplay mods?

Nethermancer is hell of a lot of fun, but he chugs mana like nobody business.

He'll say yes and I'll do so as well.
Think this way when playing with mods: Play the base game to know how it is and then if something breaks with the mods, you'll be able to pinpoint the cause of the bug.

But yeah, play without mods first, most possibly in MP, and then play with mods. Personal tip: DON'T USE SYNERGIES. IT'S BAD AND THE PEOPLE WHO USE IT SHOULD FEEL BAD.

nigga tell me the mods you're using

Doesn't look anything like it. I'm not seeing any active dodge or block moves, just running around in circles. It also seems like standing there tanking everything and trading blows is a viable strategy with how little damage it does.

Learn the essentials of dark souls combat. You must actively dodge or block and carefully attack when there is an opening. Failing to do so even briefly leads to a very quick death. It's important that while the combat is fairly slow, there is still a great deal of pressure and mistakes are harshly punished.

We need to organize some online NoX games so we can beat the shit out of each other. The PvP is amazing.

If you like shitty cgi cartoons. That shit looks gay as fuck… like it should be on Cartoon Network.

My brother from another mother, my nigger. This is really important

Yes

I cannot take a look right now but I do remember a few that I can recommend. Im sure the post will end up being big so I'll separate lines to make it easier to read.

Adventure Pack II (adds challenging bosses and two new acts)

Adventure Pack II Level scale (makes all the enemies be your level, this is great for leveling so you end the game with the new two acts around lv80 when in vanilla you finish it around lv40, so you dont get burnt grinding for levels) Do remember to turn this one off for the challenging areas where the enemies are actually higher level than you.

Variant Classes (It's a bundle of a lot of classes, most of them are great fun) Keep in mind, two or three do not work in multiplayer and tend to crash it, those are Nethermancer and PlagueLord.

Pet and fishing overhaul (it can be rather strong since it allows your pet to carry more gear to equip and lets your pet transform into enemies such as werewolf or trolls). You can ignore this one, I just like being able to have different pets from time to time.

Respec / Restat potion. As the name implies, it allows you to reset at the cost of gold so you can keep trying builds, it also lets you remove stat points.

BigBagMod (Self explanatory)

Far East pack 1 and 2 (weapons from this mod are overpowered if legendary, beware of that. It brings a lot of cool classes with neat looking gear)

Endless Dungeon (Self explanatory)

Lurker hud lite (better hud)

Zoomy (better camera)

Forgot to mention, if with some of the new classes the game becomes a clusterfuck with special effects you can find the mod Potion of Insight which puts a health bar on top of the enemies.

C'mon, split your mod list negro…

I just did you faggot, read the last two posts. I may me missing some but I just remember those.

Thanks man.

calm down m8
to each his own

Ladder runes are retarded. 340% ED, 50% IAS, and indestructible on mid runes is insane.

Not him, but he's right. Additionally it's shit that camera controls are almost nonexistent there and mobs spawn rather close to your character. And ranged weapons and spells have shit range without modding. I prefer to move on to other game instead of hunting for basic convenience mods.

TL2 artstyle is ok man, I'm not some grimdark edgy teenager

The only time monster spawn can fuck you up is if you're moving with a teleport skill or with a mod class with a fuckload of movement speed.

Ranged weapons do not have shit range, there are passives to increase the distance for a reason. About the spells, it depends on which ones, many reaches further than the camera can manage without mods, others are close range: Again it depends.

In comparison to similar games, they have. Name another Diablo clone with a cannon that stops working at less than three character heights from his feet.

Keep reading the same sentence please.
Depending on the ranged weapon, it has certain range, depending on what gear and skills you use, it has another extra range or different. Crossbow > Bow > Pistols for which one has the most range but for a cost of attack speed (usually), when Im running crossbow on the latest character Im running I reach fullscreen and Im not using gear to increase distance.

You can make your shotgun a sniper rifle with skills of certain classes.

I miss the days when they still put sexy women in game art.

He's right but I've never played Gauntlet. I was too busy killing the same monster over and over for bigger numbers.

It became a lot more casual in 2.0 when they nerfed their harder new act 4, didn't nerf movement skills which weren't desyncing all the team and didn't nerf skills that were held back by enemy reflect aura mobs. So you got those huge AoE skills that would destroy the screen but since reflect is gone there was no penalty for doing so.

They actually did fix it though and since then have been growing a lot faster. Desync was holding the game back. But ever since they fixed it they also started making stuff easier.

If your ping is low enough you have no issue. GGG has set up enough servers that anywhere within Europe you get low ping. I have around 16 ms when playing and I have no such issues anymore. If you have high ping, you will encounter similar freeze lag problems in any other online game.

Did the devs ever explain how they would fix the problem if they rebuilt the engine from scratch? I mean, I don't know much about the problem, but the only things I could imagine would be kicking non-synchronised players as soon as possible or freezing the whole map as soon as the problem was detected.

no they're just lazy and wanted an excuse to not do it so they came up with some jargon that sort of sounded okay.

having 16 ms won't help you when the server decides to break like they do every week.

Is there a 2hu diablo clone? That would be cool.

there is actually. Ask in the touhou thread for it

Doesn't mean much with the camera you can't raise enough. Grim Dawn is much more comfortable in that regard, for example. Your sight range and crossbow/firearm range are much greater there.

I'm going to check the ones you posted but it would be nice if you could name all your mods.

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I've personally found GD vanilla to be very enjoyable while TL to be far better with mods. Both are great imo but its just a preference thing. TL2 by far has the most impactful combat if that makes any sense, everything is clear and you sort of know what is going on while most other d2 clones you just charge through everything aimlessly having no idea what is damaging you or what you're even hitting them with. It took crate forever to even add those neat little debuff icons at the bottom of your screen to give you some vague idea of what actually damages you.

thanks for shilling my stuff, bro. Here's a some footage of me horsing around the village

I will put Beelzebuff in the game, just you wait

This document was very important in my work. It's amazing how the plan for Tristram actually made it into the final game.

I love the cover art too

Brevik's GDC talk is also an amazing source of information

I've been playing some aRPGs as """"research"""" perhaps I should start posting links like I did in the RTS thread. RIP Devillian we hardly knew thee no, really. I played that one for a few minutes only fuck always-online

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Good luck with your game user, just don't do a Notch and sell out on us if/when money shows up.

Nigga if he doesn't sell out and pull a Notch provided the opportunity presents itself to get ==TWO FUCKING BILLION U.S DOLLARS==
for some autism simulator and then proceeds to spend the rest of his life shitposting on twitter sending trannies and retards into depression he will be kicking his own ass for the rest of his life;no matter how short that ends being.
Also
Are you making this game alongside him?No?So there is no "us" unless you decide chip in

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I have been playing this week TL2 and today more GD and yes I agree.

The feedback of GD atrocious with too much shit going on the screen with little information on the important stuff plus items are way too confusing for someone that is starting, a complete mess of a game that you have to put a lot of hours to start liking honestly.

However I wanted to go further into it and see how someone new to GD would react I made a little experiment: I took three friends and gave them GD with the DLCs. All three of them played TL2 and PoE meanwhile only two played D2.

The one that didn't play D2 dropped GD after ending Act 1, calling it a mess with little to no information in game and a system that "doesn't work" plus how boring the enviroment looked. This player suddenly had the urge to play TL2 again which after a week reached end game and still continues playing it.

About the other two, well. One of them left it around lv50 in Act 3 without saying much that he'll continue it, someday. Most probably it means that it's dropped confirming with the other player the many problems GD has while still saying that he thinks the game is regardless good to a point with "a better titan quest with the shitty titan quest design".

Now, for the third player, he gave up on the campaign calling it way worse than PoE while praising the braindead Crucible. This third player would come and duo with me on the Crucible and reach lv50 together only doing crucible. He stated "If I had to play an ARPG alone I would play PoE over this but the crucible with people is fun".

Overall, after listening to them and seeing their points I must agree with it. Grim Dawn should have given more information to the player to succeed properly. It's a shame because I had high hopes before playing this game, I still enjoy it but when I play it alone all I could think of is how I should be playing a new class in TL2 or make a hardcore character in D2 again.

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>i forgot the flag
>i forgot to change lines for the redtext

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It's okay user, you'll stop being thirteen soon.

If you really need it, you can just look at the wiki. But it's honestly just not that hard to figure out. Unless you're a brainlet.

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100k in debt? How do you manage that? Did this weirdo pay for college and his SRS with credit cards?

It's annoying to pick up due to how overwhelming everything is at the beginning and I certainly had a bit of a dfficulty with that. That being said out of all the modern d2 clones its the only one that has kept me playing for 500+ hours due to how much fun character building is near the endgame. I doubt most would enjoy that aspect of the game and minmax faggotry isn't for everyone but compared to the awful 95% passives and 5% actual "skills" skill tree that poe has I certainly got a lot out of GD in the end. TL2 by far felt like the simplest out of the three and there really isn't much to the skill trees in the vanilla classes but this never hinders the smooth gameplay that it maintains pretty much from start to finish.

In the end I think its all a matter of preference and each game seems to appeal to a different type of person. Both are quite fine except for poe where some of the aspects just kill the game for me. Two problems I've had with it straight from the beginning is that horribly zoomed in camera that you've no control over and that limited inventory which has no reason to be so small. Pushed through around 50 hours of poe and unlike tl2/gd it never felt like it was getting any better.

I seriously fuckin love me some grim dawn though. You could build a character into a one button afk class or as complex as possible and it'll still work. I can list a dozen reasons why it wouldn't appeal to most people but its perfect for me

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Pretty much, PoE's an awful Diablo clone not because of it's gameplay per se but because it's an MMO in disguise:
It requires you to spend money so your stash is bigger.
You're forced to trade with other players due to how rare some items are making it a Market simulator, being AFK in front of the PC just looking for people that may want your shit while buying stuff at low price to resell.
The RNG is so damn heavy as well that you'll have a kid before getting a 6L made by yourself

Overall the "MMO" style and the skills on gems is what ruins PoE in my opinion.

For what you said about Grim Dawn, yes it's all about min maxing and character building, but the early stages are one of the worst I have ever played in any ARPG. I still played it with hopes of "at least end game must be good", it wasnt as good but it wasn't bad either.

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How to tell someone never played Diablo 2 in three sentences.

Excuse me, but I have never needed to trade in Diablo 2 for items. Never. I was always able to get all uniques that were needed, which by the way, the core item builds are most around lv40 making it even easier to farm. For fucks sake, even if I felt that I farmed enough I would be able to give myself the item and be done with it, how the fuck is that forcing me to trade with other players like in PoE?

You wont be able to do that in PoE. Neither you will need two pieces of the same equipment in D2 like in PoE because you need one to try and reach 6L meanwhile the one you're wearing is at 4L or 5L.

Fuck off with that bullshit of "In D2 you had to trade".

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So what you're actually mad about:

You never really played Diablo 2 and you're upset that PoE doesn't resemble your experience. That's a bummer.

Yeah for new players basically everything in normal difficulty sucks ass. For returning players however you just max one skill and rush through to the end with zero gear until you're mid-late elite where the good parts begin. With the way things scale early on a new player wouldn't know it but anyone else will just beef up their weapon socket damage ability or just one main skill to beat the entire first difficulty. Its kind of silly how trivial they make gearing until you're maybe 60+ where it begins to matter

Endgame for me is where its most fun but I bet a new player realizing that all their effort in those early to mid levels means fuck all would probably worsen the experience. Shame about the pic in because late ultimate is really where the game shines imo

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If you want to go back in time try out Harbinger. A somewhat sub-par gameplay wise sci-fi diablo with a pretty damn good setting.

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What's up with gamers today, man?

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You can beat pretty much every boss in the souls series without dodging or blocking.

...

Yeah, skills are shit and most players will try to make something quirky while best way to level is to max out one skills asap. They should at least increase min level for 2nd class to 30 because its useless until lvl 50.

That is why poe has solo self found leagues and players there gain every part of their gear and kill endgame bosses faster than on regular leagues. But hey, you know better, lvl 40 in d2 is where shit at!
And in diablo you can gain everything without trading unlike poe. Lol. No matter how much time you spend in game, if you are shit player, you will never reach the top.
Also 8 naked players can kill everyone in uber tristram wearing only white belts in just 2 days on hc ironman.

in D3 the witch doctor can have 6 zombie dogs, 3 gargantuans, 7 summoned fetishes and15 fetishes from a passive

This unironically would've made the game a hundred times more accessible to the average player and more than likely have kept them playing far past normal difficulty. What the fuck seriously I'm pretty sure that was where 90% of the confusion came from on my first playthrough

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In poe you can have like 100 skeletons, around 16 zombies and few specters and 20(+6?) flying skulls and 50 animated weapons and few other summons like wolves/spiders/rhoas but they basically cosmetic summons and a few others no one ever uses. But not at the same time. You can also use specters that summon their own sumons(skulls), but its also basically just a cosmetic.
You can also use clones with bows, some crazy people even made endgame viable build, but these builds give you brain cancer. You can have like 20 clones, I think.
Summoners used to be favorite of developers, they were nerfed only a couple of times only because they used to crush games for everyone because they had like 200 animated weapons at the same time.

in Grim Dawn you can get 15-20 summons depending on your picks

Necro

Then you can go shaman or occultist for
Occultist gets

Add to that a number of items that have their own summons (ie Black Book of Og'napesh or any number of relics) and you can get quite a party going.

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Came here seeing if anyone posted that.
Good shit.
I wouldn't call it sub par, it's just more of a shooting-dodging game rather than stat based arpg.
Runs at unlimited framerate too, making it look really good on 144hz screen.

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They made master crafting so you can spend 1500 fusing orbs to guarantee a 6L. That rather undermines the point of actually using fusings, but hey. I think PoE has generally reached the stage where it is becoming unpopular to actually use currency for their intended purposes. GCPs are frequently used for recipes now rather than boosting quality by 1%. Alchs are not as popular as they were in PoE beta when you have a ton of rares to sift through anyway and occasionally shit like "essences" which are alchs on steroids. The whole item-crafting economy in general has been undermined by massive amounts of trading and a lot of builds flat-out depend on trading to get ahead.

Game balance has also suffered a lot by becoming a fucking boss-pattern fest where you can't debuff bosses because that's the only way they can create "challenge" when people have arbitrary DPS, survival, etc. Just make super heavy hitting attack patterns with giant hp sponge bosses and toss in some phases. Brilliant!

They changed the jewel that let you get ridiculous numbers of skeletons, you can only have a maximum of 13 now.
Unless you're this guy, who got the stats on his weapon scrambled by a server fuckup and got something like +1000 to maximum skeleton limit.

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What is crafting?
What is SSF mode?

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Have an upgrade faggot

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Actually its 45 from vaal summon skeletons and I am not sure how they stack with regular skeletons, but its at least 50 and at most 58.

...

what about his gf?

and witch do you prefer?

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the second one, and also it's which unless you are talking about a woman who performs magic.

here's a further upgrade to that

a bit late but i'd vote second one too

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Considering how bad many Asian ARPGs are that may be a blessing in disguise.

Yeah that change was retarded. 3.2.0 hurt skele mage builds some more with the heirophant change. Previously you could have a +3 socketed minions helmet and have your minions enjoy +20% spell penetration. Just go Summon Skeletons + Minion Damage + GMP + Spell Echo and let 'em rip (and top it off with a double-blasphemy of Projectile Weakness and Elemental Weakness). Now you don't get that giant ele pen on your skele mages.

this is cute

kek

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Damn this looks cool

Glad someone posted Din's Curse already

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Asked this back in another Diablo thread but looks like it dissapeared.

Which version of Diablo 2 is the best one to play? Any good mods to make the game even better? and by better, I mean some mod that can satisfy my loot addiction

Pre 1.10 if possible.