Sex Negative Feminism

By the way, this is the sensible, Marxist position. There is overlap with radical feminism which would attribute the causes of this tendency to dehumanize and objectify women to the existence of a patriarchy and so on.

I don't see two things here.

1. How does pornography lead to objectification?
2. How is objectification a negative influence on society?

Also, since you are saying we should be critical of sex as a whole, should we maybe work towards ending sexuality with some future technology and raising children mechanically? Is that a pro or anti women goal?

and it should only be noted that of course not just women get dehumanized, men do too. Women do however more commonly than not take the position of the submissive object of aggression, that of the victim, which legitimizes a hierarchical structure in which men are dominant over women.

Interestingly enough – this is me going on a personal rant, it's just opinion and speculating –, the majority of women are submissive in bed, while only a slight majority of men are dominant.

I wonder if this is due to the women being generally the object of interest/desire in the sexual realm and therefore the ideology manifests more strongly on the female side.

Is this how you see the bottom in sexuality? That seems like a pretty strange view to me, could you justify it? What is the problem with being submissive or for that matter being submissive in pornography if you are consenting to it?
I wouldn't call the bottom a victim of aggression, we have a bunch of similar relationships which are consensual and have a dominant and a submissive role. Take massages for example, people pay to be submissive to the actions of the masseur which gives them the pleasure of relaxation, should that also be considered unethical?

I get that people being pushed into pornography out of economic reasons is not okay, since those are as much a form of violence as the forces that keep people in shitty jobs but couldn't consensual pornography be created under specific circumstances in capitalism or generally under socialism?

Sex between real humans is more emotional than visual and serves not just the primitive gratification of sexual urges, but has a broader psychological effect in that it strengthens emotional bonds and ideally you derive a sense of self-worth and security from it. This emotional angle is discarded in most forms of pornography and instead it appeals to our primal side, as most things in capitalism do. That which is primal – subconscious – influences our consumer decisions more strongly and effectively than supposedly rational consumer decisions we make. Rational thought requires work and information, both which is hard to sacrifice for the individual in capitalist society.

This primal angle of pornography is in detail one that appeals to for one visually to us (huge cocks, big tits and all the pornographic angles which focus on genitalia and so on) and further appeals to our most primitive and simple emotions: Aggression lived out through dominance/submission, admiration in the form of idealization of porn stars, ecstasy by focusing on pure pleasure and so on.

All forms of ideology (and I view pornography as a medium here that is ideological, as any medium that is commodity under capitalism is) have an influence on the superstructure under society. Most importantly for capitalism this is to create consumer demand (value of commodities must be realized) and suppress revolutionary elements. Our criticism is the same as it is with every other form of ideology, the negative effects in regards to pornography are among others: The reinforcement of hierarchy (relationship between men and women) which leads to silencing of women as individuals and therefore their oppression, the discarding of values (spooky) that are beneficial to human well-being and human relationships and replacement with those which are not; in detail you could find plenty of examples, for example a man demanding humiliating and uncomfortable sexual acts from his partner because he has been raised to expect them.

The problem is not an act of submission in sexual intercourse, but the context in which this happens. Submission in erotica would not be a problem, but pornography is shaped by the interests of capital and so on, see

It's better to refer to that as erotica or if you must use the term pornography, use amateur pornography. And yes, such a thing could be and likely would be created in a socialist society, but even with amateur pornography under capitalist society you will find that individuals still follow the patterns and actions which are expected of them: This is due to the pervasive and all-encompassing nature of ideology, which penetrates every aspect of your life as long as you live in capitalist society. It's quite disgusting, really.

I don't have a problem with sex negative feminism or sex negative anything because I don't think that sexual intercourse or even sexuality has any purpose at this point in human evolution.

Making evolution out to be important isn't right in my opinion. We have a lot of pleasures that aren't important to the spreading of our genes bus still contribute to a good life. You shouldn't see reproduction as the great goal of your existence, a lot of philosophers throughout time have looked for more interesting things to pursue.

The act of being critical is not one of negativity or rejection! Being critical means to want to work towards improvement and betterment of circumstances. If a society in which sexual desire was abolished would be desirable, I don't know and I don't think that's something Marxist feminism necessarily focuses on – maybe there are some thoughts on this in post-gender, transhumanist ideology.

Sex is utterly disgusting. This idea that sex is actually pleasurable and something people enjoy is entirely ideological. Masturbation is pleasurable, sex is traumatic. The sooner we have artificial reproduction and communal child rearing the better.

please don't shit this thread up with your personal trauma and complexes

I call bullshit on that. Source: MEU in Australia

How exactly is that supposed to be a controversial opinion? Is this yet another "Holla Forums flaunts its anti-liberalism by being contrarian and blaming everything on idpol" episode?

I've never had sex and I'm better off for it. You might be the one who is traumatized.

I don't see the connection, how does the objectification lead to oppression. You make a lot of jumps in your second part that I don't understand.

Why is every medium under capitalism something that spreads ideology and what specific ideology are you even talking about here, what does the term mean to you?

I'd assume that sexual imagery was in demand before pornography came around, pre-capitalistic cultures also created erotic images. What do you mean when you say that pornography creates consumer demand? Also, how does porn suppress revolutionary elements?

How does that happen? Are you saying that by merely showing women as being submissive in pornography, people think they should be submissive everywhere?

how

how

What are these patterns and what makes them disgusting to you?

Jesus christ, read my fucking post, I want to understand her position, not just shit on her because she said something I might disagree with. I don't understand why she would believe that and how would I know who to agree with when I'm unaware of the reasons for the beliefs.

It's a trauma shared by all of humanity, not just an individual.

Women are objectified in media. People consume this media – or rather the ideology that is conveyed. Ideology forms your subconscious and conscious thinking. Your actions originate from your subconscious and conscious.

youtube.com/watch?v=5Ch5ZCGi0PQ

watch this first

Doesn't real
It's no worse than any other commodity that relies on the exploitation of workers. Yes Sasha Grey did lick toilet seats and have her anus prolapsed on camera, but she's also a millionaire now. We can think of worse industries to be involved in.

Sour grapes, m8. Sex is the bomb.

You need therapy

This is why feminism is cancer. All people are "objectified" dumbass. This is what it means for labor to be a commodity. Even porky is but an instrument of the system, a slave like us, for if he does not work as intended, he falls from his position and becomes a prole, only to be forced once more to obey. It's like you can't even into Marxism, you retarded faggot.

Basically this.

It's fairly obvious that the commodification of sex is a particularly nefarious capitalist enterprise. It subordinates the worker from their labor in a more intimate way than with commodity production. Whereas commodity production alienates the worker from their labor which they put into the object, sex work penetrates the laborer literally and alienates them from their bodily integrity.

Shit's fucked.

last time i checked most people don't believe in rape culture.

see
Overcome your personal insecurities already, user.

But they aren't dehumanized because of porn, stupid. They are dehumanized because of the capitalist system. It doesn't matter if you ban porn. As for the "bloo bloo women have it worse because submission," this is also stupid. We could say that men are objects against which violence is committed. We are after all, the majority of soldiers, of which I was one. We are the majority of workplace deaths. So we must ask, is it worse to be "perceived" as submissive, or be in a position of such submission, that even your life can be taken away simply for doing your job? That is, of course, if we agree that porn actually does this, which it does not. Habitual porn consumers actually hold far more progressive views than those that don't. Feminist "theory" isn't based on any evidence. It's not theory in the scientific sense as it seems to be completely untouched by facts. It has no predictive ability, and it constantly fails to explain the world at large. It's not theory at all.

Would you read the thread first before you unload your retarded drivel into it?

Would you stop being a stupid faggot and read some theory before you post here?

Also we are not in the Oppression Olympics. Men being commodified under capitalist system is bad – just like it is bad that women do. To analyze one does not mean you discard the other.

I've been reading theory for years.

That's a shame, because it doesn't show.

H E H
>>>r/soc

Any talk of "dehumanization" is nonsense. People objectify other people all the damn time, there is nothing inhuman about it. Feminists took the "objectification" buzzword from idealist philosophy, got the meaning completely wrong and turned into some sort of boogeyman when it's really a fundamental way of how we deal with reality.

I remember watching that movie as a child, didn't like it much, it felt like a cheap ripoff of the Matrix.
I've heard this idea of forceful liberation before, the guy dragging people out of Platos cave by force and who the cave dwellers would like to see dead. I'm not sure if this is true though. I have been looking at various things critically for most of my life, like how advertisements create artificial desires, how silly branded products are and the like, wouldn't that also be considered as breaking part of the ideology? I haven't had any extremely painful experiences yet, so am I doing this wrong or is Zizek being overly dramatic?

We're reaching "not an argument" levels of rhetoric right now, seems like Americans are becoming active again. I'm out of this thread.

Thanks catman, cya around.

We're past that. You started here:

Mexican, actually. Go on your merry way, putito.
A ti también te vamos a partir la madre cuando venga la revolución.

Why the fuck would you engage with this self-centered female supremacist?

Feminists have lost every argument of the last decade because nothing they say applies to anyone else, and they base it on reversing reality and claiming that females are inherently worthless, victimized losers with no agency.

You are wasting your time, never talk with a feminist. They destroyed the modern left with their CIA funding in the 50s, 60s and 70s, they destroyed every major protest like OWS by refocusing it on their bigoted, self-centered desires, they exist only to make everything a reflection of their ideology and if you try and take that away they instantly become nihilists and claim that the movement, that everything doesn't matter because it's 'sexist' to suggest that women don't need any more special treatment.

Unless you're a virgin white knight, you've seen women objectify and exploit sexually. There's not even an argument to be made otherwise.

Stop fucking talking to feminists. Sage all feminist threads. It's a liberal, reactionary ideology with no alignment to the left.

Also leave Holla Forums while your at it.

Should I fap to gay porn then?