So what's the way to go today? i tend to agree with zizek...

so what's the way to go today? i tend to agree with zizek, who says you gotta "unravel the contradictions" and push for or demand positive reforms that at once help us but also reveal that the system is dysfunctional and cannot go on, at a point where the working class itself starts to organize into parties, unions, etc. or whatever and revolutionaries can tail them towards something good. what's the best way to do that tho? it's safe to say none of what's currently being done works, so then what?

Other urls found in this thread:

archive.is/FGZe9
archive.is/NKO2P
archive.is/KW474
archive.is/Y03Dy
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Meet people where they are. Almost everyone I know has complaints and is worried about the cost of health care and education. Approach them with leftist solutions to these problems and slowly ease them towards more general leftist principles.

Don't be a retarded third worldist, just blathering about anti-imperialism. Most people in the West do not know what imperialism is and wouldn't give a shit if you told them what it was.

is this correct use of whom??

Not in any sense. I guess it's supposed to be ironic.

What are those? Well, "Abolish capitalism and rearrange society to produce towards fulfilling human needs rather than a drive for profit" obviously, but by then you've already revealed your full power level.

Good luck unraveling those contradictions when you don't know what one is since you can't into dialectics.

Without Hegel you are all fucked to keep repeating the same failed answers to the new developing problems. For fucks sake, most Marxists still only analyze capitalism with Volume 1 production focuses and a simplified views on realization from vol 2.

Those are the things I mean to ease people towards. You have to get people to trust you, so they can get over their Cold War anti-left propaganda. Speak to people who are concerned about their health care about socdem ideas like "Medicare for all," but then push them left towards anti-capitalist critiques of the health care industry. Then show them how those same critiques apply to capitalism as a whole. Socdems are dumb, but their policy ideas are a good gateway tool to push people towards actually leftist beliefs.

i try that, and the most left-leaning thing i can suggest without outright saying that we need to work towards actually abolishing the system is that we need to expand the welfare state, maybe make its organs less bureaucratic and more participatory as to make sure ends are met better and faster, to establish a trade union or find non-violent ways to turn an Ltd into a cooperative.

these are all things i feel like we can no longer really do, and if we do they'll be very mild or outright fail because capitalism is at a point where compound growth must be met with measures so well-planned and so many resources must be allocated to keep the system healthy that we get precisely to the reason those things were abolished in the first place: to keep the system operational.


whom'st, whomst'd've, etc. is ironic.

Except they have consistently proven to do the exact opposite, as most people lose interest in the fight once their immediate problems are alleviated.

'Most Marxists' are probably only those you've read about.

so leftypol?

This is the way to go famrades

What would you guys suggest? I just don't know how to approach people and break them of their capitalist propaganda.

I do see what you mean. I've seen a lot of Sanders types that view Scandinavian social democracy as an ends. However, I have seen some who have moved left beyond socdem and even demsoc ideas.

You gotta join an organization. You gotta approach people not as a lone nut, but as an organized and educated group, doing something - writing a paper, running a news site, something. You gotta approach people with the answers they need, and a structure to involve them in.

See

you're always good for a chuckle A.W.

I've looked into joining an organization/party, I really want to, but I live in a city that is apolitical at best, ancap at worst, where there is no PSL, SAlt, DSA, etc. presence and I'm in no way qualified to apply to start a chapter. If one does start, I'll join day one.

Did you not see the ebin maymay in OP's post? Selling newspapers and literally everything else Trots do haven't gotten us anywhere in 80 years, which you would know if you're a Trot whom'st'd've'dist'd'n't Zizek has meticulously shat on consistently, with wooswoos and other Trot orgs writing shit about him every few weeks because they're just THAT flustered at how hard he BTFOs their type of pseudo-activities. Plus, writing shit news is the only things Trots are capable of.

Just look at this garbage:
archive.is/FGZe9
archive.is/NKO2P
archive.is/KW474
archive.is/Y03Dy

Why wait? Contact an international, talk to them for a while, check they're the one you want to affiliate to, join them as a lone member, use their resources and assistance, and start recruiting more. You'll create a whole new section for them, and for yourself, and for your city.

The IMT are the only fucking Trots who even understand Trotsky. The other Trot sects are a joke, don't judge Trotsky on them. Read Trotsky, and actually look into the IMT.

I suppose you're right. I'll look into joining a group as a lone member and see what I can do.

Trot papers are on the whole pretty good. I'm not a Trot but I read them, although I take the obvious sectarianism with a major grain of salt; got to get my news from somewhere.

Honestly, personally I've pretty much given up. The academic left has been dying since the 60s, the working class is classcucked and the only viable alternative to neoliberalism seems to be protectionist right-wing populism. I think the very very best we can hope for in the West is a resurgence of social democracy, which I don't want to be involved with. Time to take up the path of the egoist, m'properties.

Egoism won't change anything about the situation either, except by giving you a more pretentious view of all the relations of power that still bind you.

Nihilism is suicide. Don't do it, user.

What the fuck has your sect done besides sell newspapers? I'm not joking. When I look at PDF related and see the largest Trot org literally measuring its success in newspapers sold, your shitty holy sect promise beats me. Show me one thing of value your cabal has done. Just one.

Trotskyism is beyond a dead end for the left: it's more like a flowchart for how to create an NPO for indie radicals to write in, drum up LARPers to while at the same time raking in the excess donations to pay off the victims of rape this blend ultimately makes.


Wooswoos occasionally shits out a decent article, but on the whole it's garbage. Jacobin is much better, and it fucking says something when rebranded SocDems outclass you.

You got it all wrong man. People are getting politically agitated, people are moving. The center ground has collapsed, and swings to the left and to the right are inevitable. This is the start of a very politically exciting and fertile period.

Except there is no organized far left for them to gravitate towards.

And emotionally investing myself into a situation that will continue to slowly spiral out of control no matter what I do does only make me unhappy.


I'm not a nihilist, that's an extreme view that I reject. I know Stirner gets memed here a lot but I'm an egoist in his sense – personally I understand the consequence of embracing the ego as Stirner describes it to eventually rid yourself of it (as it is commonly understood today) completely.


You're too optimistic. Maybe in another 30 years.

How basic is your political theory that you can't see that:

a) increasing sales of socialist newspapers, when considered properly with other statistics, is a telling sign of changes, ebbs and flows, to the political mood in society in general

b) that producing a newspaper encourages and trains members to continue researching current events, political theory, and generally educating themselves, in order to write for the paper, and discuss political ideas on the street when selling it.

c) that newspaper sales alone are unlikely to be the only way all organizations that sell newspapers measure their successes.

fully
secessionist
libertarian
anarchism

I honestly much prefer WSWS to Jacobin, but that might be more a measure of my ideological tolerance for Trots vs. Socdems; at least when the former fuck up they don't back jihad in Syria on behalf of the CIA.