Native americans

It's because injuns and their shit "culture" are about as relevant and interesting as niggers and their "culture".

You sound like a racist.

Aliens are a natural enemy of Red Indians. Skinwalkers, Chubacabras, Las Brujas de Monterrey: those all come from space and they've been plaguing Native Americans for billions of years.

t.

Here's the rub: there aren't now. They've become a homogenous underclass of leeches. Maybe GTA Reservation could be fun but anything looking accurately at them would only endorse strict racial protectionism to prevent it from happening to us in the future.

Good to see leftypol is still assblasted.

Where is the first pic from? Is there a story behind it?

It's from Plaboy, though I have no idea who the artist might be.

What a shame

i swear that kid looks like he has no idea what the fuck is going on

Pretty sure it's Buck Brown.

Nobody wants to get into a legal battle with a protected criminal class. It would be like making a game about Jews. It's suicidal.

It reminds me a bit more of Dany but I doubt he ever worked with Playboy.

I dunno I got it from ED. It is definitely french though, you can tell by the art style.

whos the artist for that indian picture?

Plenty of them weren't even tribes:. The Pueblo and other southwest groups had proto-cities and early urban communities (pic 1 and 2) and the beginnings of a civilization. The Mississippians actually outright had an early civilization with cities that were basically on par with cities/towns in more rural areas of medivial europe/northern europe/indo europeans (Pic 3, 4 and 5; Cahokia, pic 3, being the most impressive example, having had a population of around 40k people, which was bigger then any city in the american colonies/early america till the early/mid 1800's) and effectively had proto-political states with the beginnings of a truly complex society with a ruling class, dynasties, etc. Even beyond that, plenty of other random cultures had actual towns and primitive cities at various points in time, but they collapsed, either due to environmental pressures, and then by diseases that spread across the contient once Europeans arrived. The Plains Indians weren't even a thing before the 1500's when they got displaced from settlements and early towns due to diseases ravaging shit.

And then obviously Mesoamerica (Mexico, Guatamala, etc) and the Andes (Peru, Bolvia, etc) were just outright actual filled with political states with proper bureaucratic governments and actual urban cities, and both of those regions were basically entirely at least bronze age tier in most respects, outright being iron age or even on par with europe at the time in a few ways. But they fall prey to the same issue where people homogenize them/can only name the Aztec, Maya, and Incans even though there are hundreds of other advanced states in those regions/people incorrectly think they were just tribal savages outside of having big pyramids, and because of American centralism people don't think of them as "Native Americans".

Japanese popular culture doesn't have that America focused perspective, though, so they tend to freeily mix Native American groups in what's now the US with stuff from Mesoamerica and the Andes freeily. They also tend to throw in easter island heads and other "lost ancient culture" ancient aliens shit in too: See Super Mario Oddessy with the Moai heads in Toastarena or the Wazzap/Wazzup ruins in MM:SF2, which is a mix of southwest US, Mesoamerican, and andean shit with atlantis/moai heads.

called the spanish

Nah, the second one you play as the priest before he became a priest and his brother.

His brother gets killed in the first game and the priest starts hunting down his nephew because he thinks he killed his brother.

They were in fighting games before.

He's probably a Canadian. They're cucks when it comes to everything, but they RESENT native americans for some reason.

Akshewally…. it's probably because they did do the research. American Indians mostly slaughtered, or conquered each other, leading to a total mixing of cultures. Ie, American Indians were truly multi-culti. Eg, the plains Indians were the most "civilized", but even they would conquer and absorb neighboring tribes regularly. Look up the Blackfeet or "siksika" tribe of Montana / Canada. They do the Sundance, conquered the shit out of their neighboring tribes, became master horseman, learned how to use guns, and developed Counting Coup.

Probably because they're a bunch of criminal leaches.

Probably because it's a farce to begin with. Here you go.

WE

imagine if this game was good

Not him but see

The Plains indians weren't even a thing before europeans showed up

There's a few disputed findings suggesting that there might have been some proto-european crossoover to the easteern US like 20k years ago, and there's also some mostly debunked genetic evidence that there's proto-european ancestry in some native american groups; but even if those are both true, "Nattive americans" as we know them still existed as a result of proto-asians crosseing over the bering land straight from the west as well, and are responsible for the cultures you know of as native americans, mesooamericans, and andeans.

user pls, you don't need to pander to the screeching white supremacists. Most of them are lefty shills and ought to be ignored.

user this is totally bullshit and you know it. Their technology and city building is Mohenjo daro level (18kya), not comparable to anything created by a complex state.

Except that there's a pretty pervasive "noble savage" myth in American culture that exemplifies Native Americans. Niggers are just niggers, and the closest we've come to a "noble savage" narrative is BLM and Dindu Nuffins.

Why play as injuns when you can play as eurasian nomads and wander the steppes in service to Tengri?

Germanic tribes literally lived in nigger tier huts during the glory days of Rome.

????

And the Romans lived in a circular tent encampment at the top of a hill during the high days of Greece. Your point being?

Hes a faggot thats going to insist that Europe was like Africa before Christianity.

Europe is still like Africa.

You can tell from the first glance

The thread is about injun vidya, go away

No, this thread is about what every thread is about, needless argumentation.

This shit actually sounds pretty fucking rad. Like imagine having a somewhat easy time until the white man comes and he wreckes your shit, testing your skill to the absolute limit

They're all subhumans, they seem noble to you because you don't deal with them.
t. Argie

Jesus, m8. What is there to talk about honestly if we don't into what ifs based on red-skin history. And for once won't you faggots actually start blaming the faggots who start shit instead of everyone?

Former colonial countries have now become a colonies of their colonies.

Look up Aztez

nah, I'd rather a game about the plains Indians fighting off strange sun haired albino beserkers (the vikings)

That lasted what, ten years?

Internal colonization is the end state of every empire, immediately before collapse.

I really don't understand northerners' fascination with amerindians.

Final Fantasy Time
YESSSSS

"Huahuhahuhe me takem whiteman's land" - bullshit indians

With the final boss being Moloch and the Jews
archive.is/qtVif
archive.is/UbI4D

Native americans are just incredibly forgettable. The numbers aren't there, barely any of us even exist anymore. So of course it's going to be difficult to find variety in video games about them. The alien shit just seems like a coincidence I suppose.

Chugs have no presence in modern society, it's only natural we don't have a presence in media. There's nothing to gain from using them as a political piece because the few left alive are too lazy to vote.

It's not like there's some hidden depth to the culture or stories either. They are as boring as they often sound. So we'll continue to get flooded with nigger and chink shit instead, because that's what the kikes are replacing the majority of the population with.

You are aware that line is in reference to Mesoamerican and Andean cultures such as the Aztec and Inca? Not North Native American groups?

Because if you are aware that's what I was saying, then you are fucking retarded or are simply not informed on the topic. Speaking in terms of Mesoamerica, using the Aztecs as the main example:

1/2

need source on those pics tbh

GO AWAY YOU POLISH JEW

La Jeunesse de Spirou (by Philippe Tome and Janry)
As for the one with the indians I dont know, it might be from L'Echo des Savanes.

Dejalo postear al nene che

cont:

Tl;dr:

Note: I don't know a ton about maritime/boating tech, economics, military complexity, or the arts in bronze age cultures, so my judgement here might be off, and they may need to be bumped up or down a level; you anons tell me what you think based on what I said. said. I should also probably do a writing/architecture section, or work that into the arts/city sizes one. (For the record, Mesoamerica had both picto and ideographic proto-writing like bronze age egypt and Mesopotamia, as well as some true written languages)

Also, I'm happy to clarify further and do my best to provide sources if you request them, just don't be a shithead and tell me to do it on like 5 things at once.

I think you have me mixed up with another user, i'm murican

thanks

Fuck you
It shows that you don't have to deal with them everyday

CALLATE JUDÍO
hola chewree

I take it this was filmed in Somalia?

OY VEY
Hola

Piss off argie, you cant compare broke bolivians and paraguayans migrating to your country to the native american civilizations at their highest points.

there are several of these from south america

Sometimes I hate what Holla Forums has done to this site.

NANO TOKA HERMANO, YO TAMBIEN ESTOY CON LOS AZTECAS

hay que organizarnos chori/meadhall/

This country is beyond saving though.

Siempre se puede golpear, balkanizar y deportarGroßargentinien con el sur de Brasil, la banda oriental y las provincias con más blancos, deportamos a los hermanos latinoamericanos y zurditos a las provincias dejadas fuera

Took a while but stopped reading there.

But it is true though, most of the population of the continent died because of the deseases from europe.

Chill out Jared Diamond.

It even happens nowadays in the amazon, have you anything that proves otherwise other that wanting to be a contrarian?

The Spanish really weren't as big a threat as people think; they mainly won due to diseases crippling the region and the fact that many states in the region supported and allied with the spanish, bridging the number and logistical/supply gap between them and other states in the region since the Spanish then also had actual native armies worrking with them: the spanish were litterally less then 1% of the troops that toppled the Aztecs; and even after the Aztecs fell and smallpox had inflicted black death level population losses, the Spanish were reliant on native armies either as allies or hired as mercaries to conquer the rest of the region over the next few decades. The Spanish's biggest ally, the Tlaxcala; which was a confederate republic of a few city states, even beat the spanish intially and only allied with them after sparing tthe conquistadors, since they realized they could ovethrow the Aztecs with them (the Aztecs had been assraping tlaxcala for a while up till now); and the Tlaxcala more or less manipulated the spanish into wanting to take the Aztecs down to begin with. You could argue it was less a "Spanish" conquest as it was a conituation of existing native geopolitical tensions and warring where the spanish were simply an additional acting party that was able to reap the rewards thanks to dieases wiping out their competition (90% to 95% of all natives were dead due to dieases by 1600, pic related though obviously the death tolls were exacerbated by all the instability and warring) in the aftermath due to further outbreaks over the decades.

That's not to say the technology gap wasn't a factor: Calvery and cannoons and firearms made them effective shock troops, breaking the enemy lines and disrupting them, which allowed their native allies to exploit the opening and chaos, but it's not as if the Aztecs and other states they fought were stupid, they did adapt and come up with anti calvery and anti firarm tactics. Steel armor also wasn't as big a deal as you think, since most conquistadors were poor and didn't have it and those that did often exhcnaged it for native armor due to the climate, so native weaponry was more or less as effective on them as spanish steel swords and pikes were on the native troops, the only real effective difference being that steel weapons were more durable, with the tradeooff being that if they were damaged they were much harder to repair or impossible to replace, vs native weapons were much more easily repairable and replacable on the field due to their materials, and could be much sharper, since obisidian can hold litterally single molecule edges.

Whatver gap the technological difference caused was entirely outweighed many times over by essentially an expeditionary force of 1000~ men in foreign territory they knew nothing about that was filled with established cities, armies with tens to hundreds of thousands of men (I'm not bullshitting that number, there's records of 100k-200k sized armies, even 400k+ ones, though the last ones there are probably exaggerations), and having dedicated supply lines and infrastructure in place. They would not have won without dieases crippling that and certain states deciding to help them and even the odds.

They were also aided by the fact that they were just able to insert themselves into the existing geopolitcal and social structure easily thanks to the Aztecs having previously conquerred much of the region before them: For many states, the Spanish taking over, at least intially, basically changed nothing, it just meant their tributate was being sent to the spanish rather then the Aztecs, and since the Spanish set up Mexico city on the ruins of the Aztec captial, the symbolic seat of power was still there which also aided that. Even on a domestic level inside mexico city and other core aztec cities, much of the social structure and class system was kept intact and surviving people kept their social infleunce and role, the Spanish croown and nobility just occupied the spot Aztec royalty/state officials used to. (This eventually transformed into a more disruptive and exploitative coliional system, of course)

As says though, play Aztez, it's exactly what you want. Expeditions conquistador is good too if you want to play as the spanish, really fantastic tactical RPG with choose your own adventure elements where there's unique/random events that change the story and are depedent on the particular crewmemebers you have/that are still alive and what their personalities are;and your decision making matters and has ripple effects.

...

I never said the Spanish were evil you asshat. I don't blame them for wanting to conquer shit, every nation did, including the native ones. Now, Cortes in particular was a greedy asshole, as were a number of other conquistadors and a few other specific people that went above and beyond justt conquering and actually actively destroyed cities, books, and native art and intentionally erased culture for the sake of it, or were needlessly sadistic. But the Spanish crown itself wasn't nesscarily: They weren't even intially interested in conquering shit, and Cortes was disobeying orders by going off onto the mainland, and outright had an warrant for his arrest out as he was doing shit, at one point a second force of Spaniarrds landed to arrest him, and while Cortes went off to fight them, that's when the Aztecs repelled the spanish from the captial and Montezuma II died. Cortes was almost executed after the Aztecs were topppled and he had to write a series of letters to Charles V to justify himself to avoid execution.

So no, I don't consider The Spanish empire evil, I'd consider them at worst complacant. Many of the conquistadors (Cortes, Nuño de Guzmán, etc), however, were sadistic greedy assholes.

I'm interested in hearing what exactly you think is wrong there. Are you disputing the entire idea that diseases killed tons of native americans, or are you just disputing that the diseases spread so fast that they killed off huge numbers before europeans themselves got further into the continent to see the areas that were affected?

Or did you misunderstood me and think I was saying that ALL the native american deaths were solely due to unavoidable dieases and that I was trying to sweep the actual exploitative and genocidal shit that went on under the rug? Because if that's your issue, then I didn't mean to imply or do that at all; I was just saying there were already large death tolls and massive destablization from dieases spreading prior to actual european face to face contact with many groups. Obviously horrible shit and further deaths happened after that as well as French and English colionizers intentionally drove off native americans to colionlize shit.

That's actually one of the key differences between the Spanish and English colonizing strategies: The Spanish's eventual goal once they decided they didn't want to execute cortes and decided to follow up with what he started was that they wanted tto actually have an empire and people to rule over there, so they viewed the natives as people to coonquer/rule over and to incorporate into their empire (which is why the church actually backtracked on burning all the native books and tried to start to preserve what they could, to make it easier to convert people) vs the English whiich viewed the natives as a nusisance and they wanted to kill them or drive them out so they could just start colionies.

(Note: I know less about the colional period then I do about the precolumbian period, and I know less about what's noow the US then I do about mesoamerica, so I'm less confident of a lot of the stuff i'm saying iin this post then I was about the shit in or or )

Considering the exact post you are responding to explains how that's not true i'm just gonna assume you are shitposting

There isn't much you can do with Native Americans unless you're adapting a story that already exists.

Think about it, you try to put in some stuff about some tribe's spiritual stuff as game mechanic or whatever and you'll get blasted by people saying you're stereotyping and insensitive and blah blah blah.
You don't do any of that and you'll be accused of white-washing.

This actually goes for any character you make that isn't a white guy so people just make white guys.

You're being baited, idiot

...

No one gives a shit about your delusions of grandeur, spic.

Cause ancient aliens meme?

There's also the issue that the NA are incredibly lawsuit happy and will go after anyone or anything if they can sniff a dollar in it

So, you're saying they are like gypsies, a dumber version of the Jews?

Aye my man. About time someone gave the Native American Nican Tlaca folk the respeck they deserve.

Gotta pay for that firewater some how.

Keep insisting I said things I didn't user.

Not a spic, as I already mentioned, i'm murrican. If you think anything I said is wrong, specify what it is and I'll find you sources to show i'm right, or if I can't find sources, I'll say that after I fail to find any and you can be smug about it.

Tthis is a big part of it, probably. SJW's claim to care about diversity but then they pounce on anything that actually features "diverse" stuff because the have impossible standards. Also, they don't actually csare about adapting minorities into unique game concepts. They just shove a black or a gay person into a game and call it a day, instead of, say, actualy making games based on african mythology or where a gay relationship is actualy a key part of the game's plot, etc; which would actually be cool.

They want all the progressive diverse brownie points without actually bothering to do anything interesting with that diversity.

I'm not big on actual Mexiican history after the early colional period ends, but my understanding is that a lot of the Mexica indepedence/pride movements that Mexico has has actually done a fair bit of harm, in tthat the Mexican goverment and these movements generalize all the native cultures as one people and only represent them as the Mexica, to where a loot of people in Mexico, say, who are of Purepecha descent, don't even realize that their ancenstors were enemies of the mexica.

You're the same autistic wetback that spergs out in every thread remotely related to the "original" inhabitants of America about how "great" they were. You're no better than those leftist professors that masturbate to imaginary nigger empires.

Oh but thats a thing in most latin american countries, through time most native identity and culture was eliminated that way to fully integrate people into a single culture.

like from legends of the hidden temple?

yes, whiteys invented 9000% of le inventions, me is whitey me is le smart

...

That's the truth though.

Well, I guess it was bound to happen.

Yes you did faggot. You said that conquistadors were evil greedy torturer sadists.
Leyenda Negra

Stop being fucking retarded.
archive.is/S6uCC
archive.is/ry2tQ

these people are dumb, there is the proof

What did you expect?

Reported for not even trying.

Mexico (and many other Latin American countries) had a low percentage of Spanish language speakers at the time of their independence. It was the educational system founded after their independences that most of them learnt it. Although this "aculturization" wasn't equally successful everywhere. Still to this day, around 12% of Bolivians don't speak any Spanish at all (most of them concentrated in the southern provinces, in which Spanish is barely spoken by 50% of its inhabitants).

What the fuck do savage Mexica and other Mesoamerican cannibals have to do with Incas and Andean civilizations in that first pic?
That shit reeks of Anglo viewpoint of race and skincolor and it liberal leftist spin in recent decades. Trying to lump all the indigenous people in one group is stupid and does you the disservice just like it is stupid when it is applied to Europeans and Blacks too. It will lead you nowhere but endless whining, butthurt and strife among the population. All while your elites and (((overlords))) rob you blind out of all your riches.

we did though

Stop shitposting.

They were certainly light years ahead of Iron Age Germanics, that much is obvious.

Its written in english. Seems odd.

Is that because so many south of the berder are half-African mutts, I wonder?

I can think of Red Dead Revolver and Gun. Both have you play as an indian or a mix in Red Dead's case going around and killing large gangs in the west.

WE WUZ

...

In every single thread I've posted in about Mesoamerican shit, every single time my intial post is 100% on topic and isn't autistic or super in depth. The only reason it ends up going that was iis becuase inetvitably a dumbass gooes NUH UH to the one offhand remark or two I made (such as in this thread, where my first post was talking about North native americans, which is what the thread was about, and I made an offhand mention of Mesoamericans being more complex; and then somebody claimed they were actually cavemen tier and I had to make a long post explaining how it's bullshit)., which requires me to then go in depth to explain how they are wrong, and then people have susbquent questioons and I have to answer those, etc.

How about instead of bitching at me for making on topic posts that dumbass people reply to with incorrect bullshit that requires a repoonse, you bitch at those people? Oh, wait, it's because you are just as dumb as them.

Again, if there's something you think I said that's wrong or is made up, as for a fucking source on that specific think so I know what you want proof for and i'll get you proof. Not that it should be fucking nesscary, since 99% of the shit i've stated in this thread is shit the Conquistadors themsleves talk about in their accounts or therre's direct fucking evidence for, like ruins.

I'm going to take the intiative though: Here's a source for the sanitation shit I mentioned, in addition to the image of a toliet from teotihaucan, which I already posted; and here's also an example of some of the sewage draiins/pipes present in the ruins of the main temple of the Aztec captial in mexico city,

Against my better judgement (since the thread has become a trainwreck of polfaggotry already) I'm going to say that's a simplification. Europe and Asia and the middle east are on the same landmass. Most inventions europe were the result of exchange and iteration on discoveries and inventions across those areas.

For example, europe got civilization and writing from the Mesopotamians (such as the Sumerians), since those things spread from mesopotamia to europe during the bronze age. Europe iterated on these things, and the result was the birth of greco-roman civilization, where branches of philsophy, mathmathics, and the like were invented and discovered, etc. It's a constant change of spread and refinement. So more accurately, in terms of european inventions, for most of them, it's the collaboration (and in many cases, competition) of whites, asians, and middle easterners (before the middle east went to shit). It's also worth noting that more then one person or culture can invent somethiing if it's done indepedently. Writing was indepedenty invented in 3 places, for instance: Ancient China, Mesopotamia (as mentioned) and Mesoameirca; etc; and obviously, given what I posted in the thread, Mesoamerica, as well as the Andes (which I didn't post much about) also independently invented many of the things that Eurasians did.

Subsahran Africans and Abbo's contributed basically nothing, though; at least as far as I know.

I already responded to this in

I don't get what the point of posting this is, at all. So some proto europeans crossed over before the proto-asians did. So what? They died before doing anything noteworthy. Agriculture wasn't even fucking invented yet for another 18k to 19k years *anywhere*, and another 4000 years on top of that beforre the first civilizations in mesopotama.

kek

...

No, they WUZn’t. That’s the point of the image and links.

1. So you admit Europeans were in the Americas first.
2. Nothing I said has anything to do with the “mixing” claims, which aren’t founded in genetic evidence. NorthAm Indioes tell stories of the “moon eyed people” who lived on their land first… who they exterminated down to the last child. SouthAm Indioes talk about the blonde-haired, blue-eyed “gods” who came across the ocean and built civilization… and then went back across the ocean.
Look, idiot, get your numbers right. I’ll assume that you meant “agriculture wasn’t invented until roughly 4000 BC”, which is the current kike narrative. It’s also patently false and proven so by the existence of cities of multiple thousands of people which existed in 11,000 BC. Agriculture has been around since DURING the last ice age.

They were wiped out by what we know of as modern Native Americans, outside the Euro-Injun admixture from the Viking settlers those guys are pretty much ignored the whole time.

T. Hawk isn't even native: He's a fucking Mexican.

Also, someone fill me in because I'm afraid to scroll down. Was this a Holla Forums bait thread from the beginning or is Holla Forums just throwing a hissy fit?
You could tell me that Holla Forums hasn't invaded this thread but that's not possible.

Huh.

...

SATANISTS N SHET

Also how did a thread about huffs and chugs turn into >muh heritage

GOOD LUCK, NIGGER.

Because there can be no discussion about other cultures without Commisar Holla Forums reminding us about the superiority of Europeans. It gets pretty annoying

Those people were European Schlomo. Just because the middle east is full of muds now, doesn't mean it was 4000 years ago.

that weapon is actually pretty neat, those protrusions on either end are obsidian shards, very fucking sharp but break all the fucking time because obsidian is brittle shit, still that first hit does some serious damage, leaves razor sharp shrapnel embedded in your enemy

Did they not have iron or steel? If that was the epitome of their militaristic technology, I can see why they were beaten by a pack of sailors who barely knew they even existed at the time, because those should definitely just have been ceremonial for the time.

I know, Jaguar Warriors were pretty cool- but I love the way they diminutize it into "Whacking Paddles".

Tickles my funny bone.

...

TL/DR? No.

That being said, one Spanish account noted how one of their heavier Obsidian weapons decapitated the horse of one Conquistador in one fell swoop. Obsidian really is that fucking sharp - they still use it for surgical tools nowadays.

I doubt half the people in this thread have even heard of Turok

I don't know, I haven't looked at any studies that the article points out. It might be the case, I'd need to look into it more to form an opinion on it; I don't like to judge things without making sure I've investigated it first. I don't really see what the importance of it being true or not would be, though? Like, so what?

Actually, there's something called the Solutrean hypothesis that notes that there's some genetic markers that native americans have that europeans also have that are allegedly exclusive to the two or something. I don't understand the science behind it that much so I've tried to noot judge it, but I know that the consensus among anthropologists is that it's bogus. IF the claims in the links rare true, then that would be supportive of the solutrean hypothsis.

That's what I was talking about.

I haven't heard about that, but, again, my intrest is in mesoamerican shit, so if it's true I wouldn't know about it anyways.. I will tell you though that I'd be skeptical of the claims that this ties into the links you posted: That was 20k years ago, the idea that there would be an oral narrative stretching that far back seems sketchy to me, especially since I think we'd know from other sites if those proto-europeans that crossed over actually made widespread settlements. I think the genetic stuff I mentioned would be a far stronger bit of supporting evidence, even if the scientific community doesn't believe it.

I actually know about this, and I can tell you why it's incorrect/misleading: The origin of this is an Aztec legend (I say "legend", but it's likely a mix of actual history, mythologized elements, and outright propoganda on the Aztec's part) about the Toltecs (an earlier culture to the Aztecs who they viewed as their cultural ancestors but they really weren't actually related to, they were WE WUZZING themselves, which is why it'd be partly propoganda), and a particular Toltec king, Ce Acatl Topiltzin, who took the name of a god, Quetzalcoatl, and his life events and deeds eventually become intertwined with the myths about the god. This happens somewhat frequently in Mesoamerican religion. Anyways, according to this legend, Ce Acatl Topiltzin went around Mesoamerica, founding communities, including tthe Toltec captial of Tollan, and he outlawed human sacrifice, (this later got intertwined into Quetzalcoatl's myths, to where the Aztecs and other cultures wouldn't do human sacrifices to the god) and in general he was viewed as a god-king. Eventually, when the end of his life came near, he traveled out to sea and was apparently never hearrd from again, but he promised he would return one day.

So, on face value, that seems to match up with what you are saying, right? There's a few problems though: A key part of the legend/historical record is that his birth and childhood in mesoamerica are documented: March 13th of 895 AD, in the town of Tepoztlán. So he's not european. Further supporting this, is that all depictions of both him and Quetzalcoatl just as a god don't have white skin and blond hair, but actually have *dark* skin, usually a green, black, or red, with similarly impossibly colored hair, pics related. The final point, and most damning one, is that we EXPLICTLY know that friars in mexico during the early colional periood took note of this legend, and used it and other stuff associated with quetzalcoatl to paint quetzalcoatl as actually having been jesus, while painting all the other gods (who in some versions, actually banished him) as demons and devils, in an effort to make it easier to convert people. The point about him having blond hair or being bearded is the direct result of that.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention and posted the wrong numbers: My understanding, and what I meant to say there, is that CIVILIZATION started in Mesopotamia around 4500-4000 BC, but AGRICULTURE came 4000 years or so before that, or around 9000-8000 BC.

In case you were wondering: Agriculture came about around 4000-3000 BC in Mesoamerica, and the first urban civilization came about around 1400 BC. So in both places, there's about a 40000 year gap between agriculture and then civilization; and there's about a 3000 year gap between the first civilization and mesoamerica and the Aztecs, which is the same gap time between the Greeks and the start of civilization in eruasia, so the Aztecs being mostly bronze and iron age tier makes perfect sense and matches up with development rates in eurasia, since the greeks were a transitonary culture between the bronze and iron age.

Aztecs did not had access to iron or steel, only gold and silver. Due to being too soft those metals were only used in the making of ceremonial tools and jewelry.
The Incas and other South American civs on the other hand used copper extensively, fashioning maces, flails, daggers, axes, spears and halberds of it.

This ties into what I said in about how japan doesn't have the cultural distinction between "US native americans" and "latin american native americans" that we have

If you have evidence to support that, I'll take a look at it with an open mind.

Jaguar warriors weren't even the biggest badasses in the Aztec military: There was both a "jaguar" rank in the normal miliitary, and then the jaguar warriors themselves were sort of a private guild seperate from the main military rank structure (these guilds sort of were like, say, the knights templar in europe or modern spec ops units). But in both cases, the jaguar rank and the jaguar guild WEREN'T the highest rank or most elite guild.

I'm a bit unclear what the highest normal rank is, but the most elite guild was that of the Shorn Ones, who had mohawks and were banned from taking up non-combat positions such as strategicians or commanders, and other soldiers were under orders to kill Shorn Ones with friendly fire if they ever retreated in battle.

It wouldn't break after a single use, I went into this in . Also, no, they didn't have iron or steel. As I explain in , they only worked/smelted soft decorative metals like gold, with the exception that they did work and smelt copper and various copper alloys; and in western mexico, such as the Purepecha empire, bronze alloys had just started to been invented like 100 or so years before the spanish (though they smelted it for aeshetic, rather then mechanical reasons), and both these coppers and bronzes were sometimes for domestic tools, like tweezers or adzes or as currency, but they didn't use them for weapons (as far as I know, there are some reports they did but i've been told they are wrong by people who know their shit even more then me) .

There's also an account where an atlatl dart (pic related) apparently pierced Bernal Díaz del Castillo's breastplate, and he was only saved by tthe underpadding (Bernal Díaz del Castillo being the author of the best first hand conquistador account of the conquest; though "best" does not mean "good": we know he embellished a lot of things). This seems bullshit, since a stone tippeed dart should shatter on metal, but if you go on youtube there's videos of people trying to recreate it, and while none of them pierce a steel brreastplate, a lot leave rather large dents and gouges. I'd buy that maybe it hit the armor in a weak spot where the steel happened to be unusually weak or something. Also, accounts of native weapons scratching and denting and gouging steel armor is pretty common as well.

See
and

Aztecs also used copper, and their neighbors used bronze. But niether used them to the extent the Inca or other andean cultures did.

Also, the Aztecs, and Mesoamericans in general, didn't work silver AFAIK, because they didn't have access to any.

Motherfucker, get off your high horse.

I had the original N64 version with the EXPANSION PAK™ which ran at an abysmally low framerate. There are still people here who aren't newfags. Hell, I'm 32 so calm your elitist autism.

Quite impressive. If I may say so. Debunks the myth of European geographical luck, too. See, niggers? We weren’t the only human civilizations to develop to such a high standard, our friends in the west developed without communication with our people, and even surpassed us in some regards. You’ve given me a new found respect for the Natives, not that I didn’t already hold them in high regard. Thank you for this input, you have taught me a lot today.

Further proof that the Spanish are sub-humans are ruin absolutely fucking everything.

I'd take anything he says about anything besides Mesoamerica with a grain of salt though. Especially the part about Japs not making distinction between Indians mattering about anything, Asians can't even tell Jews or Whites apart and Whites can't tell Arabs apart.

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I mean, if you read through the thread, it's full on Holla Forums

It's worth noting I was specifically mostly talking about the Aztecs there, and their capital in particular. "Aztecs" is actually a complete misnomer: the 'Aztec empire" was an alliance of the city states of Tenochtitlan (which is called the captial since it had the most infleunce and it's ruler was in practice the one running everything), Texcoco, and Tlacopan, and then they ruled over many more cities as tributaries. These tributaries weren't directly ruled by the triple alliance: they simply paid annual tribute and were required to aid the triple alliance in military campaigns; the tributaries kept their indepdence as far as internal governance. Even the main triple alliance still had a great deal of indepedence from one another politically and in terms of internal governance, but they, and many of the tributariies, belonged to the same larger cultural-liinguistic group, so a lot of their culture and how they ran their cities were shared.

So, some of what I bring up wouldn't be universal: In particular, a lot of the hydraluic systems I mentioned would have been mostly unique to tenochtitlan and the cities it was connected to via the systems in the lake basin; but as I noted, the region had a long history of plumbing even before then. The sanitation systems to the exact extent I noted also would have been unique to tenochtitlan, but we know from Spanish accounts that other cities in the region, especially core aztec cities in the lake basin other then just tenochtitlan, were also very well kept and people bathed regularly. The municipal/bureaucratic systems was mostly a cultural thing across much of the region, so cities outside tenochtitlan would have also had similar bureaucratic complexities, though if it was as complex or the specifics would vary: For example, The Tlaxcalans, who the Aztecs were beating down when the spanish shoowed up, had the same sort of district system where each district would run municipal programs and systems, but Tlaxcala itself was actually a confederacy of multiple city states tthat operated like a republic, with each of the elected district leaders for each district in each memeber city being members of a collective senate

On the other hand, Texcoco had a reputation of being more cultured then tenochtitlan, with more poets, philsophers, and artisians, and having a super large royal library. The most famous Texocoan ruler, Nezahualcoyotl, was a warrior poet was revered as a sage and founded a group of philosophers knoown as the tlamatini, for instance. He also designed the dike/levee system in the lake. While I know some experts dispute how much of this sterotupe that Texcoco was more cultured then tenochtitilan is true or not (since most of it coomes from Texcocoan sources), it goes to show you that some cities might have been better then tenochtitlan in a few ways.

Anyways, other then those, most of what I mentioned should be pretty universal across mesoamerica, at least for the central vertical slice of the region: the Maya/Yucatan region to the east and western mesoamerica were pretty culturally distinct and had major differences: I know the maya didn't have nearly the same bureaucratic complexity, instead basically just having familial dynasties that ruled over cities directly; for example. I don't know nearly as much about the maya or western mexican cultures (and western ones are super, super understudied, so there's not that much info out there on them), so I prefer to avoid talking about them so I don't say shit that's wrong. The Maya also lost their preeminence (but didn't "mysteriously vaish" like pop culture makes it out to be) 600 years before the spanish showed up: The central and center west part of Mesoamerica is where most of the important shit and cutting edge stuff was going on anyways.

That was just my own observation when looking at games and anime and shite from japan that features native american stuff, It's not the result of any sort of actual analysis of Japanese cultural perceptions or anything.

Anyways, I'm certainly not an expert on Mesoamerica: I'm just an autist who spends a ton of time reading and looking stuff up. I'm sure I made a few mistakes, so taking what I said with a grain of salt is warranted. But I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that I am more accurate then 99.99% of the shit you'll find online. The amount of ignorance and myths that get repeated and taken at face value is insane.

Is this an embedded pic?

Hispachan-tier.

Angry spic, take your obsidian whack paddle out, let's see if it can beat my gun.

I mean, I wouldn't go this far. Geography almost certainly plays a huge role in the development of cultures.

I imagine that the lack of any inland seas like the Mediterranean is a big part of why the region was so under developed in terms of maritime abilities, and the fact that they had no other somewhat isolated regions with advanced cultures to contact and trade with (the geographic barriers between them and the andes meant that any trade between them was indirect and sparse, the advanced states in both regions likely didn't know the other existed) likely limited them as well.

People like Jared Diamond witht GG&S likely overestimate geographical factors and downplay other ones, but I also think that a lot of historians and anthropologists try to downplay geographical ones, and just dance around trying to draw conclusions because… I don't know, post modernism and trying to avoid being seen as racist?

The writing system changed from an abjad to an alphabet. It is quite an improvement. I'm pretty convinced that there was great similarity racially between the population of both.
Ireland had an alphabet without contact.

Human sacrifice

Mesoamerican religion was absolutely batshit crazy and is like a serial killer's fever, there's no denying that, but the actual people being sacrificed were almost all prisoners of war captured in battle: To the Aztecs and other closely related cultures, capturing the enemy was seen as more badass then outright killing them.

Basically, when the Aztecs or another culture broke enemy lines and they scattered, instead of mopping up and killing them, (which is what happened in european and asian wars: the majority of deaths in battle weren't in formation to formation combat, it was when one side lost resolve and broken that they got chased down and killed) like in european wars, they instead attempted to capture them alive. So, it was more or less an extension of their warfare, and most of the people being gutted were people who would have just been killed in battle anyways. There are a few exceptions: Certain religious ceremonies did call for women or childern to be sacrificed, (such as a ceremony to the rain god Tlacoc, where the more you got the kid to cry the more it would rain) but it wasn't common, likely as uncommon as it would be in other ancient, eurasian cultures

Likewise, since it was an extension of their warfare, it was also "voluntary" in the sense that like how a soldier "signs up" to accept death in battle as a result of being a warrior, being captured and sacrificed was also an expected possible result. What sources we have don't suggest that to be sacrifices were uncooperative: It's actually the opposite: It was seen as honorable ad even in cases where the sacrifice victim had a chance to avoid being sacrificed, they generally refused and insisted they be killed. Take this dude, as an example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlahuicole

The gladatorial ceremoney being mentioned can be seen in pic related. Another key thing to note is that most of these religious ceremonies involved the sacrifice victim being seen as a incarnation of the god they were being sacrificed to for a period of time prior to being killed, usually living like a god with good food and drink: in the case of this ceremony: After the sacrifice victim was killed, they were skinned and their skins would be worn and priests would basically go trick or treating with them for 20 days and do mock battles throughout the city. The flaying was important because it was a ceremony to Xipe Totec, a maize god, and the flaying of skin was seen as analogus to husking corn; and he's often shown wearing flayed skins: and in this case, it's the priests wearing the skins of the victims being treated as the incarnations rather then the victims themselves

So, yeah, fucking batshit crazy stuff, but it's a mistake to think that they just massacred their own civilians or that they were killing more people then other militaristic states, since, as mentioned, almost all the victims were people who would have otherwise been killed in battle anyways. There IS some more insidious stuff about human sacrifice in aztec culture, which is how they basically used it to justify their own militarism and as a realpolitik tool, but I ran out of space so if somebody wants me to explain that (let me know) it'll have to wait

Forgot to note that in that excerpt:

City of mexico = Tenochtitlan (The city was sometimes called Mexico-Tenochttitlan, which is where "Mexico" as the crurrent country name comes from)

Armed in the usual fashion is that he was given a macuahuitl with feathers instead of obsidian blades. He would have also been drugged. (As you can imagine, you weren't supposed to be able to win)

polite sage for just being an addendum

Their gods required human sacrifice as worship. They had a caste of sacrifices. It wasn't POW execution.

They didn't have the wheel, used it only for toys.

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A Red Dead style game where you play as a Cherokee set during the American Civil War would be cool. Any more Civil War games would be cool.

You massive fuck, are you really trying to imply that 90% of the population dying within a century isnt utterly cataclismic and wouldnt cripple any society?

How could you be actively avoiding copying something that won't exist for another 8 years?

Does Wanderer count as native American? South American is still American, right?

Thats supposed to be south american?
I always thought he was supposed to be some steppe asian.

There won't be another civil war game in current year for a while methinks

*American Civil War

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Yeah, I'm sure the retard who thinks that his "native americans" are the masterrace who are just pretending to be a carbon copy of Gypsies that only survive because of government subsidies is a Holla Forums-guy.

There are different factions and tribes of native americans with varying degrees of technological achievement, moral values, and interaction with Europeans/foreigners based on those aforementioned factors. Sounds like you saying that the other user(s) claiming that they're "master race" is a strawman when referring to the analysis of some of their civilzations that were stated to be overlooked and impressive, with the latter being admitted as such even by the conquistadors themselves. Which probably is highlighted by the natives that were first encountered by the Europeans on the coastal areas to be much more primitive compared to say, the Aztecs and Incas that they would encounter later.

Different types of Amerindians, with different types of Europeans all treating each other differently at different points in time. No one race, at least as whites and amerindians are concermed "dindunuffin" or were completely, ireedemably evil. The two traded, intermixed, and fought against or with each other in various points in time.

Cough.

You play as a big guy Indian named Diaz. It turns out you're actually a secret service agent named Johnny, and the presidency was slowly replaced with alien changelings

Injuns aren't as cool as Inuits. Literally.

This is getting pretty embarassing, Holla Forums

This is all I needed to see. Thank you.

I kind of want this game now.

Since this thread is now about politics there is only one thing I'd like to say.
GODS CHOSEN PEOPLES, GOYIM! BOW THE /FUCK/ DOWN.

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Let's talk about china instead.

shut the fuck up, chibi

lmao

Mainly because they are allowed/really don't care if you report it
Civilized world grabs you by the balls and calls you crazy if you report such things. Ask any pilot or truck driver, they get severely punished in terms of schedules if you do such a thing

Gursel
A turkroach who pesters France, but he's pretty decent

You got schooled and sourced, and yet you still cry in butthurt agony
And by an american who can read, to boot

Well, can post you sources to back that up? I've certainly never heard about that. The closest thing to that i've heard of is that the lowest class of "slaves" could be sacrificed for disobedience or trying to escape, but in order to be put into that class of slave you needed to have either committed a crime or have been a war prisoner to begin with.

On that note, Slavery in Aztec and closely related cultures worked quite a bit differently then slavery in europe: as I said, there's different "classes" of slaves:The "highest" class was less slavery and more indentured servitude/forced employment: Somebody "owned" you, and could sell you to others, but you still earned money for your work, had rights/could own property yourself, and your owner had a responshbility to care for you well, and you could buy your own freedom. People selling themselves into this sort of slavery just as a way to get quick cash sort of like a loan was actually not that uncommon, and then they'd just buy themselves out of it when they needed to.The lower class I mentioned was closeer to "true" slavery.

They also actually used it in pottery production, and the siege towers I mentioned earlier probably had them as well: The sole mural we know they had siege towers from shows a wheel like object with spokes in them, pic related. They clearly understood the mechanical properties of wheels, since the toys are clearly meant to be rolled around and because of the siege towers, tthey just didn't use them because there were no horses, cattle, oxen, or mules to attach carts to.

Are you retarded? Asia is directly fucking connected to Europe. There's still some resistance and exposure they have to those diseases over time. The black death wasn't a brand new dieases, it was a new strain of something they were already exposed to, and even that killed 30% of europe.

The post you are explaining too littterally outlines how it wasn't just "a few european settlers", but also the armies and troops of existing states in the region, and then over time epidemics continued to thin out the populations. Do you need me to link to the actual study and paper the population collapse graph is from or accounts of the spanish coonquest?

As was already explained in (You) and (You) ; Mesoamericans were already past bronze age ttier in a variety of ways. They absolutely were relatively primitive in terms of their use of metals, but it's possibly for a society to be relatively behind in some ways, such as metal use, and ahead in others, which they were. Another example of this, for instance, is how both Mesoamericans, and I think alsoo some Andeans (see below) had early suspension bridges, before europeans did. Pic related showing a Maya one, for instance.

Some of the visual motifs in the stonework in SOTC and last guardian and such looks vaugely precolumbian to me, moreso Andean (the region the Inca, Chimu, Moche, Sican, Wari, Tiwanku, Chavin, and other cultures that are from; I'd post aboutt the cool shit they did but i'm less knowadable about it: I doo know the Inca had even a more complex administrative/government systems then the Aztecs and had way more advanced economics, and managed to have an entirely state run economy/property rights system that wasn't a dumpster fire; and thatt the Moche had some really rad ass fucking temples and murals in them, look up Huaca de La luna; and that andean cultures in general had really advanced understanding of and use of fibers and tensile physics (hence the suspension bridges) including a writing system made of string knots, but that's about it that I know of. ) then Mesoamerican; but I think overall it's just intended to be generic geometric ancient shit.

The idea that they saw Horseman as centuars is a myth: The Aztecs called the spanish's horses "large deer", so they clearly understood they were separate animals.

Pigs are constantly portrayed as villains due to semite prohibition
And recently (aka 20th century) because of Animal Farm by Orwell

Source? Why would their bosses give a shit

are we bumplocked?

They wouldn't write that you will get your shit pushed in if you saw yufoos
Basically they will see this as a sign of mental instability, and simply take much more care of giving you any schedule
This sounds dubious but i can give you my imaginary, anonymous personal guarantee that if you ask any truck driver, pilot and maybe sailor, 8 out of 10 will admit and some point to have seen pretty bizarre shit or known someone who did

When an airliner or document gets leaked/known for a bizarre occurrence it's mainly because A LOT of people saw it other than the official source, it was leaked by an enemy to poke fun (see: americans leaking 1976's Iran Night Chase) or because someone extracted info from a retired source

Lame excuse. Carts are useful for transportation with or without animals. Just look at the rickshaws in Asia.

You need materials that are relatively lightweight but strong to make wheelbarrows work, particularly for the wheel itself: If it's all wood, it's heavy and prone to breaking: Researchers have tried to make carts and wheelbarrows using the materials they had access tto and found that by the time you make them big enough to hold more weight then they could using back baskets, the weight of the cart/wheelbarrow itself already outweighs the cargo it can hold.

Also, Wheelbarrows weren't invented till around 0ad in china, you'd be suprised how unobvious this stuff is without the context of knowing it exists: This is why the region was so behind in metallurgy despite being so ahead in terms of sanitation and other areas; or, as you saw in the post you responded too, actually having large suspension bridges, which were unheard of in europe.

Technology isn't a tech tree in a game of civulization, isolated cultures develop in different ways.