Is the reason why so many people are leftists is because they're simply not doing good in life...

I'm going to dig up Ayn Rand's corpse and piss in her skull.

Socialism gets capitalists buttmad because it's using their own tactics against them. Also fuck you for being such an obvious porky suck-up. Pathetic.

Another observation I'd like to make is this: socialism traps people to poverty.

If all capitalists are rich and most socialists are poor shouldn't you embrace capitalism as this increases your chances of becoming rich since the rich people embrace capitalism?

Food for thought.

Because the wealthy have classcucked the middle class into believing that socialism won't benefit them

Have you even read Stirner? Pleb

It really won't. Most billionaires come from the middle class, just read the backgrounds of those in the Forbes 500.

In capitalism, a Middle Class person may become a billionaire if he succeeds – there is no ceiling to your success and wealth. In socialism there is and it's mediocrity. Fuck your system.

Have you read Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell? Or how about Hayek's masterpiece The Road to Serfdom.

Cuck.

This is why people like you must be killed :)

Fuck tolerance

Yes, if you have no principles. But if you have no principles you could just as well "embrace" bank robbing as a way of getting rich, the only disadvantage being that it is illegal and hard to get away with it, where as being an exploiter is not illegal in capitalist society. But even then most people can't be capitalists simply because they want to as they tend to be stuck in their class.

sowell is the equivalent of one ply toilet paper

Anally ruptured by Keynes.

He's a commie tho

You're a self cunt. Why should you have children if you have inferior genes? Your kids will just suffer. If his vision of the world is implemented yes some people will be worse off now but in the future everyone will be better off.

Eugenics is unironically a great thing. I say this as a person who is 5'11" an inferior manlet. If it means I won't have kids.. sure as long as humanity is better off. It's called sacrifice.

Becoming a millionaire is less likely than winning the lottery. Capitalism by definition will keep most of the population in poverty.

So fuck your system and your murican dream. Kill all the rich people, burn their houses, stealth their wealth. Fuck you, we got ours and we outnumber you.

Fuck principles if I can get a better life by being a capitalist and feed my kids, satisfy my pleasures.. I thought you fags like Sterner? Isn't this an egoist position?

Stirner is a meme.

You and your kids will make great splatter art against the wall.

This is why you will never be rich. How can you ever be rich with this attitude? It's impossible. You will never work as hard, never start a business and you will never open your eyes to opportunity around you. If you think being an employer is exploiting people you will never start a business that can potentially propel you to upper class status. So yes. Socialism makes you poor. Think and Grow Rich. Your attitudes towards money is what makes you rich ultimately.

Also most people are poor because most people are dumb. The capitalists are smart and don't teach people the secrets of wealth. You're one of those who have been duped by the capitalists because they told you it was impossible so you don't work for it. You're a useful idiot.

Also the rich are more powerful and will fuck you up if you try and take their wealth. It's never going to happen since they have all the power. You will rot in jail. The only way you can win is to join them and then defeat them from within.

Typical violent fantasies from a have-not who will never make it precisely because he is a socialist and a defeatist.

Sorry man but all you're going to do is end up in jail.

Most people earn a wage = Most people are losers LOL cucks!

I did read Basic Economics. I'm not saying he's completely full of shit, but he and Rand's "the market is impersonal and capitalists are always moral :^)" line is total bullshit and it shines through in the weakness of some of his arguments.

I especially liked his "argument" against unionization and working conditions, which were

1. If either business cartels or unions collude to set prices, then the prices will be artificially high and the market will be less efficient, so neither should do it! Everyone should assume good faith and police themselves. :^)
2. Improved working conditions just cost more and are passed on to the workers. :^)

Another observation I've made:

Socialism is essentially envy/jealousy turned into a political ideology. That's why hating the rich is part of being a leftist.

Think about this: if you hate the rich, how can you ever be rich? Your subconscious will trap you into a life of poverty because you cannot become/strive towards something you hate.

Gee I wonder why I hate people that steal my labour forcibly

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If you're earning a high wage – I say stick to it. But if you're not satisfied you have to go deeper into the capitalist game.

Remember, life is essentially a game. Wage labor is very difficult way to become a high scorer in that game since you can't leverage your time. You need to embrace capitalism and become a capitalist yourself to reach high in the rankings.. unfortunately the capitalists have brainwashed people into being wage laborers forever. You're just another dupe. Sad.

Most of us belong in the huge (dumb, call it what you want) majority and pipe dreams about creating a successful business wont change that.

Its as foolish as putting your hopes in winning the lottery.

We massively outnumber the wealthy. It makes far more sense to agitate for class war than going against logic and statistics in the vain hope of advancing to the upper class.

The worker uses the capitalist's equipment (machinery, computers, land, etc.) to make the capital. So your meme is fundamentally wrong.

Also labor is a voluntary transaction. Nobody is forcing you to get that job.

i don't want to play the game

Yes, and that is why some Marxists temporarily "embrace" capitalism like the New Economic Policy in the Soviet Union which was state capitalist. This layed the foundation for the state capitalist system of the Soviet Union. But if you are a true egoist you should be able to "embrace" other things like bank robbery like when comrades Lenin, Stalin, and Litvinov robbed a bank in 1907 to fund the Bolsheviks. If you are a true egoist, there is no reason to respect property rights (or the "NAP") as everything is subordinated to your will to power

So basically you adopt the mentality of a defeatist loser and then wonder why you haven't made it yet?

made by workers

made by workers

please come up with an argument that isn't meme-tier

Capitalism is not survival of the fittest.
Tyrone may not have the highest Autism Level. But he can whoop a nerd's ass and then fuck his wife long dick style

How about you lurk before posting? Or grab a book?

You just need to read Marx. His criticisms of capitalism go far beyond "bur hur i don't have enough munnies :'(". In fact that entire mindset is at the core of his persuasive attacks.

I don't envy CEOs. I ran a business and it fucking sucked. I lost all my friends because I had to hire them and treat them like cattle. It ruined my relationships with my family. I had money and I was fucking miserable. What made me miserable was treating my fellow men as commodities.

Money is a kind of shit, mierde, that commodifies everything and makes it expendable, interchangeable, and artificial. Capitalism absolutely INSISTS on splattering it on everything. Nothing is holy, nothing is sacred. Everything is ticketed and sold and turned to the same shit.

Sorry but nobody in economics actually takes him seriously anymore. It's like telling me to read a creationist.

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Ayn Rand payed through the system via taxes – why shouldn't she take welfare to recoup some of her stolen money? You really are stupid m8.

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And nobody in history takes holocaust denial serious anymore. im not even a commie but your shitpost wasnt an argument, faggot

Ffs socialism isnt making everyone poor its more akin to making everyone middle class if anything, the rich have such a dispraportionate amount of wealth that if it was to be redistributed everyone would have fair conditions

And shooting you against a wall is a voluntary transaction as well

no shit, sherlock
if society has large wealth inequality, there would be a widespread sentiments for a wealth redistribution
and there's always a danger that plebs are gonna find their campion in some populist politician who tries to ride the wave for whatever reason
and then shit might hit the fan, when populist finds himself unable to retreat because logic of events forces him to act

so be a good randist and hire more mercs that could shelter you from the general public just in case

If refusing to invest immense amounts of time, effort, and money playing the fucking lottery is a loser mentality then damn right we have a loser mentality, a fucking rational mentality of basic self interest.

Fuck your false hope, fuck your American dream, fuck chasing after a lie and a myth.

A system that leaves the majority of its people in poverty deserves to be destroyed by any means necessary. Thats all there is to it. If it doesnt work for the vast majority of us, we should work to tear it down and replace it.

"some" lol. She needed cancer treatments. She was a parasite by her own definition.

I'd rather some people live in luxury while most others struggle to put food on the table and pay bills, than have evryone wealthy enough to live comfortably. Fuck off you selfish cunt.

Karl Marx has been refuted for hundreds of years. Literally no modern economist worth his weight accepts his theories anymore. FFS. It's like taking creationism seriously.

And you'll go to jail for the rest of your life with the rest of your violent commie friends

Is he selfish or is he just a classcucked bootlicker who hopes to own the boot one day? lol

Same thing really

"Modern economists" are basically just bourgeoisie liberals, they whole ideology is designed around as a justification for bourgeoisie liberalism. Their theories are shit, its not a hard science.

How much of a loser do you have to be to think the American dream is not attainable. By definition the American dream is middle class status. If you can't achieve middle class status then you're either retarded or not working hard enough.

Also how much of a loser do you have to be to think middle class status is a pipe dream.

Socialism is no better. In fact there are dozens of real life examples of why more socialism is worse. Look at Venezelua or Cuba inb4 not real socialism!!!!!!!!!!!

Just admit that your vision is a utopia and stop pretending it can be made real.

Nope. She was recouping her stolen money (taxes). Not parasitical.

great job Einstein, you really cracked this one

Not if I voluntary dismanle the state :^)

Wanting to keep my own money is not selfish. The selfish is one is you who thinks rich people owe him something. You're entitled. You will go nowhere in life.

Capitalism will not die. Read The End of History, chap.

Look man, we don't need to do or argue jack shit. Capitalism is already collapsing due to its internal contradictions, just as Marx predicted.

People can't afford to live and capitalists won't pay them. There will be revolution out of necessity. So you can just relax. We're already correct.

oh my god, you dipshit. Just how much do you think she payed in? She was never wealthy, she also accepted money from friends before relying on the government.

Do you have you any idea how much a decade of welfare and medicare funded cancer treatment costs?

OP, do you also let your boss fuck your wife/girlfriend/dakimakura?

Listen, I'm not a leftist, but your rabid shitposting has to stop. The basic premise here on Holla Forums is that there is disproportionate wealth inequality, it is caused due to an unfair system where you make money out of thin air, while those who do the actual work get the scraps. It is not irrational to be against this sort of system and search for a better one.

Don't dismiss Marx until you read him. Of course economists would dismiss him after a hundred years, he's been shunned for a hundred years! How do you think it was in the USSR? Do you think they didn't dismiss liberal economists? Does that mean liberal economists were wrong?

If you don't accept the idea of socialism, that's fine, I'm not going to lecture you on that, but think for a moment: what are the issues of the current system and what could we do to improve it?

Word of advice, when you read something, read it in good faith. See flag for future reference.

Automation will create more jobs as it always does. People like you are the same people who thought the automobile or factories would ensure that people would permanently lose their jobs – what happens? More jobs are created.You're a luddite moron.

Capitalism has a solid track record. You will be proven wrong like always. Keep thinking it's going to collapse fam, hold on to that pipe dream tight.

Again fuck playing your stupid lottery faggot. No one will ever buy into such a stupid scam.

Id take genocidal totalitarian socialism over capitalism any day. The success of our revolutionary system is a secondary concern. Our primary goal is the ruthless and total destruction of capitalism, consequences, death toll, and bread lines be damned. The only thing Cuba and Venezuela did wrong was being too soft on the enemies of socialism.

Thanks but I'd rather work and invest in property and start a business. No time for reading leftist drivel I actually want to retire early and become super rich.

Sorry you feel that way. You seem very angry. Maybe you will make it in the next life.

then why do you come here to ask about leftist drivel?

replying in another bait thread but why not

money=wealth=success
back in the trashcan of ideology with you

I'm sure your wife's kids will appreciate your sacrifice.

By 2030
Yup I'm seeing a lot of new well paid jobs opening up

I came here to teach not to learn Marxist bullshit which I have already debunked and which I don't believe anymore. Marxism is a religion. The religion of envy.

Not exactly. We're leftists because we,be examined the material conditions and economic relations that define our social structure.

So people who benefit from the system support it and those who don't benefit from the system don't support it. What a revelation, it's like people act in self-interest or something.

Or bourgeois individualism is a way of obfuscating social and institutional factors by narrowing the focus to the individual, allowing for the perception that the damage caused by the capitalist mode of production are merely personal issues.

"Equality of opportunity" initiatives, like higher education, objectively fail at creating greater social mobility when taken all by themselves. This has already been well established. They serve more of an ideological function for the bourgeois individualist than an effective social function.

No, their """success""" comes from the exploitation of the working class. The people who truly benefit from our system are parasites feeding on the blood of the international proletariat.

Why should I befriend a social parasite? Even worse, why should I want to emulate them?

Read a book then kill yourself. In either order.

we'll see man
maybe future generations will make luddites look like a fucking champions of automation

Automation has always created new jobs. Luddites have always been proven wrong. Nothing is going change. All it means is that more people will go into service sectors and STEM and less people will work in manufacturing.

Just because you don't have the vision/smarts to see the new industries that will be created doesn't mean they won't exist.

Stay pleb friend.

Meanwhile I'm gonna take the opportunity and invest in biotech and AI :^)

dub&trips wasted on a retard

nothing of what you said hasn't been said before

You are a moron and you've debunked nothing, given you don't know what you're arguing against.

And here, folks, we can see pure ideology. Triple distilled.

Congrats you've just become a capitalist.

This isn't your fucking blog. No one cares when you have no real points relevant to leftism, socialism, or communism.

You can't debunk something you don't know a thing about, retard. Don't forget to sage and bumplock this shit thread.

Capitalism is not in my self interest.

Too bad. Adapt or die.

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Keep aiding class consciousness friend. You will be unpleasantly surprised soon. :)

Fam youre a bourg sympathizing part of the petty bourgeoisie. There is nothing in socialism that could possibly appeal to you. I really dont understand the point of you arguing with us as our class interests are fundamentally opposed.

You seek to preserve your place in the system out of your own self interest, we seek to tear capitalism down out of our self interest. Theres no compromise or resolution here. You will not convince anybody here that starting a business is a more rational choice than class war and none of us will convince you otherwise.

Youre here for no other reason than to vent your emotions.

Adapt or die in our future concentration camps :^)

Or do like the capitalists did and overthrow the system that didn't serve them.

Funny that capitalists expect you to treat their system as absolute, immutable fact when they had to overthrow feudalism to bring their system into prominence.

Also, this.

Te greatness of human specy is that we're adapting our surroundings to us rather than let it dictate our lives.
If you want people to live like fucking australopithecus that's your problem but don't expect others to just bend over.

That's what he's doing. Sorry this adaptation doesn't benefit you. Enjoy your cabbage soup.

try again

We're much better adapted than Capitalists will ever be.

Truely baffling.

That Wilde quote is very poignant.
Saved.

So you're telling us to oppose our self-interest, and support a system that's contrary to our interest, just because it possibly could be in our interest, in some indefinite point in the future? Sure, m8.

You mean that AI that will take your job eventually?

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We care more about the owning class - the bourgeoisie - the people who own and control the means of production and the flow of capital than other wage workers who are simply getting a bigger pile of crumbs from Porky's plate.

no

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So you know how to build a GPU from scratch ?

That would be engineers, who are also wage workers.

So all I hear is you trying to convince people to give Obongo's 8 years of socialist government a free pass. Go fuck yourself, kike.

running to the papa State like a little bitch you are
and you faggots have the nerve to bitch about how the state is robbing you thru taxes

not only is it very statistically improbable that you'll even get to the point where you can spend the second half of your life without working full time and still have your own place and be independent, let alone become a multimillionaire, the system itself by the way it functions cannot allow for everyone to be this wealthy. in fact, it cannot even deliver basic human needs to everyone all of the time.

2/10 bait got me to respond, saged etc. go be an engineer or wealthy investment banker somewhere else you insufferable faggot.

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You know OP, you remind me a lot of Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged

Truly one of the great philosophers of our time and totally not promoted far above her actual notability because she deified Porky.

I just realized this guy is probably an engineer or similar STEM student who likely fell for the Elon Musk meme

They're all poor and irrelvant slackers except when they're spoiled college kids or academic elite, amirite?

Just get a job, or start working freelance. I made my first million dollars when I was 24 years old. And no, don't blow thousands of dollars on a useless college degree like gender studies. Now I'm set to buy land here and offshore in a couple of years.

It's really not that hard.

(OP)
Thats great and everything OP
but
Worker, Value of their Labor and Who Owns It is more important than Personal Afflictions
What you really seem to be criticising(correct me if i`m wrong) is material conditions most of the people find themselves in these days
Its really hypocritical to root for porky while going after average person

I hope you're just memeing.

Get cucked by a boss
Cucked by the market

Prove it :^)
Also, I hope your dad's proud of you now.

What if there were 6 million haves?

Guys op is right but he is obviously inferior to me because I made my first million at 12 by selling lemonade mixed with my urine which I copyrighted and sold along with using my good looks as a marketing image.

You guys just have to stop being losers and find a way to make money. Capitalism is freedom Yo.

Pic related is me.

The problem already starts with the fact that you belive left-wingers have their opinions because they are uninformed, ignorant or haven't heard of those great debunkings. How can someone seriously belive that people live in this neoliberal world, without having have heard your arguments over and over again? And the worst thing is, that you assume you're telling us something new and unheard of. We're on a site right next to Holla Forums - this wouldn't be the 3rd biggest board on a right-wing site, if we couldn't defend our position.

I'm doing fine in my life. In fact you'll realize most people today in college are leftist not because "M-MUH HIPPIES" or whatever the fuck asspull rationalization, but because the logic there makes sense, and the logic to the contrary, does not make sense.

You'll see more people who could actually benefit the most from it, work entirely outside of their own self interest

Why not try acting in your own "self interest" then, OP

Conservatives say "It's okay for the poor to suffer". Liberals say "noone should suffer".

Assuming for a second that OP is 100% right which I don't think is true but for the sake of argument lets assume so. Then it still leaves us at square one because even if we have a society of bottom feeders, they're still a part of society and whether the rich like it or not, they get to help flesh out the governments policies assuming we actually care about democratic principles. Op's attitude can be used as a precept to justify social darwinism, but it can also just as easily be used to justify a welfare state liberalism as this was similarly argued by John Rawl's or vengeful socialism. The possibilities don't stop there but the variance among those three illustrates my point. Moralizing about the current fate of people does not an argument for society make at least not by itself. It might ba good preamble to saying why a boss centered society is preferable to a worker centered one, but until you actually make those arguments we only have implications of a possible argument here.

Of course op is wrong though as the majority of wealth is inherited and even when it isn't the people who earn the most aren't doing so by being successful by conventional means or by the fairy tale of entrepreneurship/bootstrap pulling, but rather by gaming the banking and government subsidy system to their advantage. Random traits like Luck, charisma and beauty have far more to do with your ability to be successful if by successful we mean phat stacks of cash, than things like hard work, creativity and intelligence. If I could seriously believe the fairy tale of capitalism, ops argument might be convincing for a second, but seeing as I know the reality of the matter I unfortunately cant. Atlas go ahead and shrug, society will find a way.

Venezuela NEVER aimed for seizing the means of production. They have a mixed economy ffs. If you think that's unsustainable than take look at China which your kind just loves to praise.

You may think that Cuba is shitty, but I suggest that you should take a look the other (capitalist) islands in the Carribean Sea and you will find out that they are doing a lot worse. Also, Cuba has a high human development index which comes pretty close to developed nations while having a 3-5 times lower ecological footprint.

Most silicon valley guys succeeded because of their hard work, intelligence and creativity and not because of their beauty or luck. Stop being a fucking loser and work harder to better society and create something that people will want to pay for.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Stop playing the kind slave owner you enormous faggot.

I'd like you to name some specific examples for me, because I'm a dumb loser and I'm not aware of the wonderful examples you know to have certainly come from those things. Also you addressed the frosting but not the cake, why should we accept the status quo, based on your moralizing? I am a loser, now why should I care about porkies needs above my own? Isn't banal egoism the basis for libertarian philosophy? I'm doing whats in my best interest by arguing for a nebulously leftist society and I've heard nothing here that should dissuade me from doing so.

The peasant uses the feudal lord's land. Maybe feudalism isn't that bad…………….

I'm so stupid for not seeing the big picture all along, I'm gonna just go ahead and start a business and become rich. Thanks for the advice OP. Really appreciate it man!

If automation doesn't lower the socially necessary labour time (thus doesn't lower costs), then what's the fucking point of automation?

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the kind shit you are pulling of right doesn't work on me faggot

…but…..I'm an engineer and a socialist….

And this is why I have zero problem with murdering you. You refuse reason, so that leaves us with violence.

Like a phone with no headphone jack

The wall is better than the rope.

The fact that you would list parasites like investment bankers alongside actually useful workers like doctors alongside each other is sufficient reason as to why you deserve to die.

REALLY MAKES YOU THINK
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Don't you get it, something is socially useful so long as it makes a lot of money, regardless of what that thing is. Our Lord and Savior the Market has blessed it.

oh look another assclown who knows fuckall about me who thinks all I need is one more motivational speech

thanks so much for your help OP, really all this bitching and empty words really helped me turn my life around and, like you said, it's all completely 100% under my control and I just didn't want to get better enough. Glad you didn't do anything like give me money, food, or actual actable advice, that would encourage dependency and I have to pull myself up by my bootstraps and take responsibility and other empty platitudes that are pig-ignorant of material conditions. the smug Palmer Lucky frog really helped me see the light especially, as did the patronizing, preachy tone and the dogwhistle phrasing.

haha great job

hurr hurr he responded he's mad lel troled in the butt hole

I have no problem with wealth per se. I have a problem with exploitation. You may think you worked hard to achieve success, but there were multiple factors beyond your control that led to your success, and ultimately your wealth comes off the backs of cheap labor. You may eventually believe that you acheived your comforts and wealth through your own sheer will but that is a fallacy. Like all of us , you are a product of a system and until that system in not overthrown then more and more people will be exploited for the pleasure of people such as yourself.

tl;dr

Is the reason why so many people are White Nationalists is because they blame an outside force for all their problems? Most of the people who are doing really well in life and who aren’t retards seem to support the socialism whilst the people who aren't making that much money (min workers), are homeless, suffer from depression or drugs, etc. seem to support nationalism. Every White Nationalist rally I see is filled with people of the latter. You never see accountants, lawyers, investment bankers, engineers, doctors or other prospering professionals in these rallies. It's always the have-nots - the drug addicts, the min wage workers, the unemployed, the NEETs, the lower middle class, etc. people rallying and crying out.

It's an interesting observation because it tells me that White Nationalism is essentially blaming the jews for your own problems. It's a nice scapegoat. And I don't blame people. If you're 25 year old or older still making minimum wage or a really low wage. You could go back to school to upskill and get a better job by say getting a degree in engineering and getting high grades but this provides a lot of uncertainty and there's a chance you won't make it since you are competing with black people so you essentially get defeated and support destroying the jews. It's hard to make a come back when you haven't been working as hard or haven't had as much opportunity as others so it's just easier to give up and blame the jews and fight for the destruction of the ZOG Occupied Government.

I understand your frustration. You didn't make it life. You didn't strike gold. So you decide to blame some the jews. It makes sense, logically. But just know that you're hurting poor jews and blacks people just because of your own jealousy/spite/failures. You are projecting your own failures. Whenever I see a nationalist, it's likely they have some deep routed sexual and racial pathologies or if they don't they're in the bottom of the ladder. They're hopeless economically – most of the time. .

My advice is fuck you op go suck a dick.