Why is it so hard in this age of nostalgia to get a single design philosophy right? Wherever you look for first-person shooters, you usually get a mix of roguelite garbage, VR shootan, overly minimalistic indie stuff, arena shooters, or first-person platformers. But when it comes to trying to emulate the idea of exploring labyrinthian levels and to hunt down keycards while dealing with a large roster of enemies who will slowly whittle you down your health and your ammunition, said throwbacks always do something retarded to mess the whole thing up, though most of them aren't even trying to do the same thing because the notion of what makes an old-school shooter has become that warped. Yet most singleplayer first-person shooters released between 2000 and 2010 veered into more tactical territory, Half-Life puzzle-adventure territory, or just gimmick territory. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but most of these substitutes for new FPS releases just don't compare to Doom or Quake or Descent or Duke Nuke or Blood or Unreal.
Have there been any, for the lack of a better word, good Doom clones released in this decade? Surely the talent and knowhow must exist given Doom's still-vibrant modding scene, but after a while you want to see a different kind of take on Doom. One of those would be Overload in webm related, even though it's currently in Early Access (I'm counting it as a Doom clone since Overload is a spiritual successor to Descent which was pretty much 6DoF Doom). Even DUSK manages to stand out somewhat by leaning more towards loads of very fast projectiles as a style of combat compared to Duke/Blood's hitscanfests, Doom's colorful enemy swarms, Descent's AI-driven dogfighting enemies, Marathon's slow but numerous projectile spam, and Quake's melee attack-baiting and tricky ranged attacking enemies.
He meant arcade shooters made after 2000 that replicate the 90's style.
In regards to OP, I'm pretty fucking impressed that Overload has been making that level of progress because I was worried that this project was going to disappear like the rest. I was following Descent Underground but that ended up being a more team-based FPS deal and not what you have described. And unfortunately, there haven't been much, I think there was a game called Strife recently that tried to replicate this style, but I think I got the title wrong.
Wyatt Williams
Pretty sure you're talking about Strafe. I don't know too much about the game, though I hear something about it fundamentally sucked, that probably being the guns or movement or something. I noticed the developers were making a sequel for it, but it's going to be a roguelike first-person tower defense game so my brain tuned out.
Jayden Garcia
what you posted is called 6 Degrees of Freedom, which is a precursor to space sims, and not a fucking FPS you nigger
Brody Perry
Just like how Microsoft flight simulator is such a clone of Elite.
Wyatt Bell
Get banned
Jordan Taylor
wow
Nolan Edwards
I accept my fate
Jace Turner
Is there any novel reason to discuss anymore? Cinematic experience railroading levels and pushing third person, more expensive assets and realism fetish shrinking levels, short TTK, annual franchises being rushed, emphasis on multiplayer, shrinking audience attention span, diminishing audience skill, AAA unable to do anything but copy current trend.
More interesting question, imo, is there really an audience in waiting for 90s shooters? Because I feel like every serious attempt is stillborn. I've seen no interest in the new UT or Quake Arena. Those games are flawed, but we play flawed games all the time. I've rarely seen anyone mention these game except to say they're shit and totally not the glorious 90's game they're holding out for.
Nicholas Gonzalez
...
James Peterson
No fucking way
Grayson Flores
...
Charles Mitchell
...
Aaron Sullivan
He's worried the government will stop him from posting on a right wing video game/anime hybrid discussion forum that requires no registry. Which they probably should.
Andrew Evans
you're a fucking moron. 6DoF and FPS are two completely independent concepts. You can have a game that is one, or the other, or both. Descent is an FPS. You shoot, and your perspective is from first person. A presence/lack of 6DoF doesn't change that. Freespace is also an FPS. That doesn't mean that's all it is. Brush your teeth and go to bed, kid.
Owen Ward
Holla Forums is banned in Russia
Ethan Foster
...
Brody Flores
...
Jack Reed
i thought they patched that out
Isaiah Allen
Go back.
Nathan Ramirez
"Classic FPS" had their success because they had no competition.
Nowdays for gamers who prefer PvE games like Warframe and Destiny are 147% better. They provide infinite amount of excuses to shoot infinite mobs luring player with Skinner lootboxes, and provide better variability. Replaying same levels of "Classic FPS" is inferior in terms of motivation and psychological rewards.
Jeremiah Phillips
Every game is a role playing game since you play roles in them.
Brody Howard
@14323610 @14323608 @14323639 @14323685
Gabriel Bailey
Hitman: Blood Money is an FPS because it has a first person mode and you can shoot people in it. People who like Call of Duty will love Hitman since they are in the same genre and play exactly alike because of the first person perspective and shooting.
Owen Cook
...
Dominic Johnson
woah there tismo, calm down. didnt change my id, just took the opportunity to shitpost.
Cooper Fisher
What worthless, ignorant posts. Of course you upload an image to ensure attention. The point of thread isn't whether or not a single game meets an accepted criteria for whatever hazy classification you subscribe to, it's for the discussion of games (or lack thereof) with deeper relations than just control layout and camera perspective. While OP mentions first-person shooters, he is also clearly talking about design philosophy. Fuck off, you shitposting little cunt. >>>/cuckchan/
Justin Ross
Because all of the FPS titles back then where first-person shmups or dungeon-crawlers (Or a combination of both). If you want to know why people don't get this, blame introduction of Half-Life.
Noah Hernandez
Jesus Christ Holla Forums can't even hold a conversation about first person shooters. Fucking abysmal.
Brandon Flores
Cuckchan has completely flooded this board Nothing but low IQ niggers now.
Levi Bennett
And Descent can allow you to use a third person external camera perspective. It's not a third person shooter because that's not the primary mode of play. Hitman isn't an FPS because you're using 3rd person perspective 99% of the time, and 100% of the time in other games. You're being disingenuous and arguing semantics and you know it.
Wyatt Edwards
Most modern devs were not playing video games in the 90s and the few that were were only playing the biggest names in console games. FPS is not a console-friendly genre which was even more true in the 90s.
Cooper Ortiz
You can accomplish missions in Hitman without firing a single shot in FPV. If you can do such in FPS it is not a FPS (first person shooter) anymore.
Michael James
Space sims are a much older genre.
Evan Morgan
I have noticed this too, they are spouting their shitty memes everywhere and acting as if they had always been here.
Blake Scott
You heard it here first folks, DOOM is no longer an FPS.
Christian Allen
Since Hiroshitma removed the Legacy captcha it was a straight dive into shit. I just wanted to talk about Witchfire and Devil Daggers.
James Perez
So Falcon 4.0 BMS is a FPS. People who like Call of Duty will love Falcon 4.0 since they are in the same genre and play exactly alike because of the first person perspective and shooting.
Jordan Bailey
It is running simulator.
Sort of FPS but with extremely complex movement system with inertia and stuff so it can be classified as sub-genre at least.
Ayden Edwards
neither are 90s shooters or designed anything like them
Luis Sullivan
War: Final Assault
Samuel James
Also Painkiller
Hunter Hernandez
...
Jayden Moore
more in common with horde shooters like serious sam than anything else.
Aiden Hall
Midway's The Grid:
You could play as MK characters.
Joshua Gray
2004 is oldchool now
Ayden Campbell
there's a big difference between how shooters were designed in 1994 and how they were designed in 2004.
Justin Myers
Thanks Halo
Brody Russell
if more games were like halo we'd be in a better place than where we are now.
Levi Long
Technically speaking, yes. At least you're getting closer despite your disingenuousness. How many strawmen are you going to pull out of your ass? Nobody in this thread has even implied anything as remotely stupid as "anything with levels and increasing stats will be loved by fans of RPGs." The original point is that a 6 degrees of freedom game is not something that is mutually exclusive of being a FPS, because one faggot was stupid enough to say "hurr that's a 6DoF game, not an FPS." Nobody said all FPSs play the same or that it was the only aspect of the game that made a difference, and in your struggle to pull any contradicting argument you can out of thin air, you're arguing against points no one fucking made.
Joshua Long
No, just you
Brayden Nelson
you too.
Easton Brooks
In regards to the discussion of FPS games, why is Halo always the one blamed for "destroying the genre", and not one of the dozens of other games released such as… And all of those light-gun and FMV games released along the way as well.
David Roberts
halo was much less influential than call of duty which has much stronger roots of influence. serious sam is only to blame for ruining the perception of what an "old school" shooter is.
Jaxon Thomas
Because Microsof heavily shilled it to sell it's console and it became extremely overrated extremely fast despite being neat. It was the FFVII or CoD 4 of it's generation.
Just the shitty ads Serious Sam was never oldschool, it just took some of the design philosophies of previous games like enemy prioritization and did it's own thing with it.
Bentley Smith
I'm well aware, but many shills pitched it as such and in much of the public conscious it's considered "old school." It's a horde shooter, plain and simple.
Joseph Murphy
Weren't they doing that with all of their games back then? As far as I know, the only difference with Halo is that it happened to be one of the better ones.
Andrew Sanchez
No You think Otogi, MechAssault and JSRF were shilled? Halo was massively shilled by Microsoft, especially in the US.
Jonathan Jenkins
Serious Sam was never originally sold as an old school game though, it was always marketed as pushing away from that with modern tech allowing large arenas and fucktons of enemies. The faggots claiming it 'was old school came along later.
This a fucking retarded list, you've got fucking Dark Forces on there despite it being released a year after Doom and pushing tech hard. Regardless of that the reason Halo fucked the genre is because it sold almost entirely on the strength of its multiplayer with a frankly shitty single-player (the second half particularly). It marks the time when consoles stopped focussing on what they did well (e.g. platformers, action-adventures that don't concentrate on shooting) and started focussing on half-arsed imitations of the strengths of PC gaming (FPS games, multiplayer etc).
CoD wasn't really a thing on consoles until CoD 2 which was 4 years after Halo 1.
Cameron Campbell
That better be a typo.
Nolan Bailey
The first time ive seen a normie admit he liked video games openly in high school was cod 2.
Ryder Butler
My perspective on it is this: Halo is blamed (along with CoD4) for the rapid decline in the quality of FPSs because of its mainstream shilling and success. It's not because it's inherently a bad game itself, necessarily; it's because MS shilled it hard to sell the XBOX, the next generation of consoles achieved far wider success than previously established, and it cracked open the FPS genre to the cancer that is wide-audience, mass-market "appeal." We all know too well what the fuck happens when an industry driven by profit has its products determined mainly by a "general audience": normalfags dictate the changes in the industry, and having utterly shit taste and no consumer convictions, throwing their money at shitty games that have unethical shit all over them and only playing said games for 20 hours before moving on to the next one, they drive everything into the ground.
Halo was at the start of that upswinging normalfag curve wherein they started become the dictating force of the industry. I'm someone who played lots of CoD4, and as a game itself insofar as a fun competitive military shooter is concerned, it's fine; but everyone hates it because of what its success did to the industry, and they have every right to shit on it because of it. It's not what CoD4 was as a game that mattered, it's what effects its success had that mattered. Same with Halo.
Jaxon Robinson
>>>/cuckchan/
Nobody said they were, just a different approach to the genre that then completely oversaturates the market, but even worse, influences later games to do even worse.
I think he meant local multiplayer, which has always been shit on PC, and is now shit on console (unless you're Nintendo).
Julian Perez
Console multiplayer has always been an inferior version of PC multiplayer gaming. Hell you can't even have community-hosted dedicated servers which are a fundamental requirement for good gameplay. Strictly speaking I should have said online multiplayer though as of course couch play is a strength of consoles.
CoD 4's multiplayer is fundamentally no worse than 2's both are inferior to 1's and United Offensive's since they use tiny killbox maps and have no vehicles etc but 4 is what really introduced the skinner-box unlock system into the mainstream genres: obviously it had long been a thing in MMOs and some other less influential games but 4 is where it really took off.
Jacob Jones
Not anymore, but they successfully raped that too with matchmaking cancer and paid online.
Not anymore, there are a thousand os splitcreen games on PC now and thanks to paid online even less on console. Nigger what splitscreen games does it even have? Mario Odysseys hat gimmick and Snipperclips?
Hunter Lee
I meant online multiplayer, something that was at best a footnote on consoles until the Xbox and Halo. It's my bad for not being specific there. As for local multiplayer I assume you mean 'more than one player on one machine' rather than LAN games.
David Perez
Basically, since LAN parties (I, at least, assume) used to be a computer thing.
Chase Miller
LANs still are a thing, at least around here, but they're much rarer now and half the people who show up just play matchmaking cancer by themselves.
Julian Young
Here's a quick list I found of local multiplayer games on Switch. I don't think it's entirely up to date either.
Bloody Zombies Death Squared Escapist 2 (also has vs. mode) Super Beat Sports (also has vs. modes) Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle (unlocked by playing single player) Nine Parchments Overcooked! Special Edition (also has vs. modes) Putty Pals Snipperclips/Snipperclips Plus Aces of the Luftwaffe Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth + Bleed Brawlout Cave Story+ Caveman Warriors Crimsonland Dimension Drive Enter the Gungeon Fire Emblem Warriors GUNBIRD Guns, Gore and Cannoli Hammerwatch Human Fall Flat Lego City Undercover Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2 Lego Ninjago Movie Video Game Lego Worlds Lichtspeer Mecho Tales Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition Moon Hunters Neon Chrome Neurovoider Octodad: Deadliest Catch Phantom Breaker: Battle Grounds Overdrive (also has vs. mode) Pic-a-Pix Deluxe Portal Knights Rayman Legends Rive: Ultimate Edition Robonauts (also has vs. mode) Rouge Trouper Deluxe Shovel Knight Super One More Jump (also has vs. mode) Tallowmere Ultra Hyperball UNO (no 1 vs. 1 with human players on the same Switch) Uurnog Uurnlimited VVVVVV World of Goo Wulverblade Xenoraid Yooka-Laylee 1-2-Switch Aqua Moto Racing Utopia ARMS Astro Bears Party Astro Duel Deluxe Beach Buggy Racing Brawl Cars 3: Driven to Win Chess Ultra (only split Joy-Cons) Conga Master Party! Crawl De Mambo Dragonball Xenoverse 2 Escapist 2 (also has co-op) Fast RMX Flip Wars Floor Kids FIFA 18 Gear.Club Unlimited Golf Story Grand Prix Rock 'N Racing Infinite Minigolf Inversus Deluxe Jackbox Party Pack 1 Jackbox Party Pack 2 Jackbox Party Pack 3 Jackbox Party Pack 4 Just Dance 2017 Just Dance 2018 Let's Sing 2018 Mantis Burn Racing Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (also has co-op mode) Monopoly for Nintendo Switch NBA 2K18 NBA Playgrounds The Next Penelope Ninja Shodown Oh…Sir! The Hollywood Roast Oh…Sir! The Insult Simulator Party Golf Pinball FX3 Pokken Tournament DX Puyo Puyo Tetris Puzzle Box Maker Riptide GP: Renegade Rocket League Rock’N Racing Off Road DX Rocket Fist Snow Moto Racing Freedom Spelunker Party! Stikbold! A Dodgeball Adventure Super Bomberman R (also has co-op story mode) Super Meat Boy Super One More Jump (also has vs. mode) Tachyon Project Tactical Mind Tales of the Tine Planet Tumblestone Ultra Street fighter II (also has co-op mode) Use Your Words Worms W.M.D. WWE 2K18 Blaster Master Zero Fruit Fall Crush Gunbarish Namco Museum Mario Odyssey Mutant Mudds Collection Picross S Resident Evil Revelations 2 Sonic Mania Strikers 1945 Strikers 1945 II Super Ping Pong Trick Shot Tumbleseed
All varying degrees of local multiplayer playable on a single Switch.
Name some. Not all of them. Just some splitscreen games, as many as I listed above for a console that's not even a year old yet.
Kevin Reyes
Pretty much, nothing but plebs playing ASSFAGGOTS cancer or CSGO. Not like kike publishers will make another RTS with neat mechanics for people to exploit nowadays thanks to all the cancer that infiltrated the hobby or an actual game without matchmaking with a high skill ceiling.
Liam Walker
World of Goo has multiplayer? How does that even work? Genuinely interested here.
When I last bothered to go to a LAN it was LoL on laptops but frankly I gave up after that.
Ayden Jenkins
You just proved my point you dumb fucker The fact that you think all of those are exclusive to the Switch just makes you look like such a brand loyal retard I have no words to express my disgust right now.
Henry Ward
Apparently World of Goo's multiplayer is coop, a bit strange but there you go.
Gabriel Campbell
Get on Fightcade.
Colton Cook
Had some IRL friends with which I played CoH and C&C Generals. Those were some fun times, unfortunately
Is the netcode in it better than the port?
Hunter Collins
Probably.
Connor Sanders
Fuck misclicked Unfortunately we went our separate ways and I'm too afraid to even get near a public LAN since I'm expecting 300 dozen different types of cancer and only garbage to play.
Lucas Gutierrez
It's either yes or no user
Andrew Miller
What you actually play at a LAN doesn't really matter as much as the people there to be honest.
Aiden Foster
It should be better unless you live in fuckin' Botswana on a dial up connect.
Lucas Perez
It does to me I'd rather socialize outside vidya if I'm forced to play shit games.
Feels good I'm going to sleep though, it's 6AM and I don't have a Fightcade account setup or even the client
Henry King
Holla Forums needs some kind of chat room so it's easy to co-ordinate playing stuff together with random anons. I guess there's the Holla Forums irc.
Camden Gutierrez
AND NOW FOR THE ACTUAL TRUTH
Calling these 90s FPS is a marketing ploy: i.e. the Shadow Warrior remakes are sold on this meme. In reality, these games bear some trappings of old but are still contemporary games with a few old school touches for inventory and stats.
When a real 90s style FPS shows up, it's almost always a C tier game from an emergent country like in Asia and South America. Actual old design from countries that are still playing ancient games because of budgetary restrictions. Anons would make memes of those games' poor quality and ignore them outright.
It feels like circular reasoning because it is: gamers judge games positively, only after they already pre-judged them positively. A game is not analysed and scored in a vacuum. Gamers pick up a game and ask themselves 'should I bother with this, how much flaws should I ignore in this', and their decision is based on the game's perceived budget (monetary and social, like it's memetic standing). Hence why a Bethesda turd gets pardoned of every mistakes it makes.
Ayden Campbell
Is this a complete ripoff of forsaken?
Anthony Jackson
No, Forsaken was a Descent clone whereas Overload is a 'spiritual successor' being developed by the original Descent devs.
Xavier Young
< at least 10 of them are exclusive to Switch < he will use hyperbole as a defence < still hasn't named any decent splitscreen (not local multiplayer, but specifically splitscreen as he mentioned) games on pc pic related, SAT scores when up when niggerfaggot dropped out of school
Adrian Williams
They did. The limit is now four weapons.
Jonathan Evans
He mentioned Chronicles over Mystara you Nintentoddler. -Serious Sam First Encounter -Serious Sam Second Encounter -Serious Sam 3 -EDF 4.1 -Crawl -Castle Crashers -Broteam -Trackmania -Rock of Ages -Redout -Cortex Command -Resident Evil 6 -Sonic All Stars -CiV -Gauntlet -Divinity Original Sin -Left4Dead2 -Magicka -Helldivers -Alien Swarm -Guacamele -Shank -Spelunky -Tekken 7 -DBZF -Guilty Gear Xrd -Duckgame -Divekick
End your life along with the shovelware you've never played including FIFA you obvious Nintentoddler.
Thomas Gray
Jesus christ, common sense would dictate you lurk more or use your better judgement before posting about something you're not sure about if you're that new.
As to the OP in question, UT2004 and UT2003 if nobody has covered it already OP, they're both essentially just overhauls of the original UT.
Aaron Williams
oh boy here we go
Joseph Cox
This. And console games generally are a low IQ, low effort, low T, low everything games.
Evan Roberts
I got curious and looked it up, there's a few articles dating back to 2000-2002 that call the game old school. It's been part of the series baggage for a long time.
Ian Cox
That is called MOBAs my friend. RTS with mechanics properly adjusted to human abilities.
Thomas Sullivan
exactly
Adrian Lewis
Rise of the Triad
Parker Lewis
2/10
Brody Lewis
From retarded journalists yes.
John Lopez
Because they're soul-less nostalgia cash-ins made by bugmen who don't even know how to code.
Caleb Nguyen
Wouldn't those fall under the "emphasis on multiplayer" issue that you pointed out? I'm someone who'd like to see some more 90s-style shooters, but I have no interest in something that's based entirely on multiplayer.
Freespace is more like Ace Combat in space, though the code does allow for Descent-style 6DoF (or at least the open-source version does, I'm not sure if it was in the vanilla version).
I agree with you that Descent counts as an FPS, though. It's just an FPS with two more dimensions you can move in. If you were controlling a guy in a space suit instead of a ship, no one would say it's not an FPS.
Wait, really? I've never heard that before. Do you need a source port or something for that?
I agree. It was fun enough for what it was, but ultimately I'd prefer something more like old-school Doom instead of the whole "Enter an area, area gets sealed off, kill all enemies to advance, repeat" style of gameplay.
Camden Ortiz
because halo had regenerating shields. most of the games you listed had normal health and armour points.
Easton Moore
And it would have done that beautifully if they hadn't decided to throw in shitty 2000s game mechanics like weapon limits and regen health.
Ethan Richardson
You know exactly what he meant, you fucking asshat. No wonder you posted a picture of Goofy, you're so damn stupid.
Aiden Nelson
they're trying to recreate the idea of what the 90's was and not the reality of it because nostalgia much like the games trying to capture it is bullshit built on some idea that the past was better instead of adapting to the times that refuse to halt just because you want it to and maybe just putting in a few references as a nod
Brayden Wright
Normalfags don't like keycards and mazes, OP.
Zachary Richardson
I am among the best of the best when it comes to 90s FPS. I am a game that features dinosaurs, aliens, and a slough of cool weapons. I am predominately a console game, with four games on the same console. Who am I?
Blake Carter
I never really saw the regenerating shields in Halo as that much of an issue. If we compare to Quake, Ranger can take more abuse in one sitting before dying than MC, the trade off being he needs to find pickups (though in CE at least there were health packs so you became squishier if you let your health get chipped away). This ties into Halo's slower movement speed, you can't weave around huge mobs enemies like you can in Quake. I view this as a bigger detriment to the game, if it had been PC focused it wouldn't need to have been slowed down for controllers. Possibly resulting in a completely different design philosophy. As it is, in Halo you rely almost entirely on cover or obliterating anything in your way to protect yourself since you lack the mobility to avoid damage outside of the faster vehicles.
If anything the shield system is just a consequence of the slower movement speed. The pickup system means even taking minor damage will rack up over time and can put you in a tough spot later on in a level. Shields would undermine this completely, in Halo you can't move fast enough to avoid damage on mobility alone, as such a pickup system like Quake's would slow the game down even more as you'd have to stick to cover heavily in order to avoid death. With a regeneration system you can make controlled aggressive pushes then retreat to cover, but will easily die if you overextend yourself.
Colton Thompson
Lose shields immediately with a shit from a sniper rifle At least, this is true for Halo 2. Haven't played Halo:CE in who knows how long.
Andrew Brooks
...
Caleb Williams
Because the pseudo-template is used to make cheap indie fps games, just like pixel art was used to make cheap indie platformers. It's an excuse to be even lazier about level design, weapons and gameplay than shit like Call of Duty, instead of being as good as Doom, build engine games, or all of their fan mods.
Owen Murphy
Check out Amid Evil, made by the guys who published Dusk. It's like someone made modern Heretic. It's not out yet but it looks half-decent. Shame there's no inventory system like Heretic.
Adrian Barnes
Sounds like shit.
Joshua Lee
This is bait, I can smell it. Haven't thought about that one in a while, good shit.
Ethan Cook
I don't really do console fps but I'd probably guess Turok. Wouldn't exactly say it was the 'best of the best' of 90s fps though it's certainly the best of the console FPSs at the time. Unless this is a trick question and there's a similar series that fits this description in which case enlighten me because it sounds fun.
Brandon Cruz
No, the correct answer is very simple user: I AM TUROK!
Levi Taylor
Nigger it doesnt even have quicksave so its clearly not in the running for that. What is Timesplitters?
Wyatt Miller
*A good series but one that started one year after the 90s ended.
Thomas Young
Disgusting, truly disgusting. Only savescummers use quicksave.
Kayden Myers
Quicksave is an essential part of a 90s fps.
Jordan Flores
I'm kind of sad now that there isn't another series matching that description, I thought maybe you were trying to trick me with the obvious answer and there was a hidden gem I'd missed out on.
Ayden Hill
Well fair enough I suppose.
Logan Morales
So is having three baby-tier easy modes, a normal mode and an ultra-hard mode. Your point?
