Anti-National/Anti-German

Antigermans are great despite being retarded most of the time. They managed to create a big movement against antiimperialism and are great at triggering liberals and rightwingers. Ny sheer polemicism they have managed to become a household name.

Holla Forums This is weak bait…

this tbh, the German annihilation instinct proves too strong to suppress, it's not the Jews who are responsible for the woes of Europe or the world, it's Germans. we've given them opportunity after opportunity to make amends and rewire themselves but time is up.

Germany must be deleted.

OP isn't Holla Forums. OP is /bookchin/.

ZioWhabbiMercs on my /leftypol?

I wonder who could be behind this post

It's the truth. Either Germany is deleted or they must return to the previous status of a large amount of small countries and city-states.
Bavaria already wants this.

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Small countries and city states would be great. Holla Forums is heavily in favor of pan-nationalist, swiss canton style government.

Morlock rape babies presided over by jewish EU bureacrats, not so much.

Because you guys are genuinely batshit insane.

Why do we keep ignoring him?

Batshit insane in what way?

So basically they affirm nothing and stand for nothing except negation, a constant tearing down of structures without thinking of what comes afterwards. Also, if you've google image searched pictures of German antifa they're a bunch of pudgy tattooed potatohead looking faggots.

As gay as internationalist world communism sounds I'd take it over this.

The negation of the nation-state is of course only a strategy vis-a-via antifa that is a part of a broader revolution, which could be applicable to any ideology that is itself explicitly opposed to nationalism in all its forms (Communalism, anarchism, some marxism, etc.).

NIE WIEDER DEUTSCHLAND

I really suggest "Against The Nation" by Robert Ogman as a good starting point, it explains in simple language the history and origins of the "anti-national" and "anti-german" movements and why we think the way we do.

OP, if I can offer a suggestion, Bookchin's stance on nationalism is pretty relevant too, they're very similar although independently developed. There's a chapter in "The Next Revolution" ("Nationalism and the “National Question”) that is perhaps the best English-language description of why supporting shitty third world fascists (and supporting internationalism instead) is probably not the best way to go:

"The modern Left, such as it is today, all too often uncritically embraces the slogan “national liberation”—a slogan that has echoed through its ranks without regard for the basic ideal voiced in the Internationale. Calls for tribal “identity” shrilly accentuate a group’s particular characteristics to garner constituencies, an effort that negates the spirit of the Internationale and the traditional internationalism of the Left. The very meaning of nationalism and the nature of its relationship to statism raises issues for which the Left is bereft of ideas, apart from appeals for “national liberation."

…Thus, despite the populist and often even anarchistic tendencies that gave rise to the European and American New Left, its essentially international focus was directed increasingly toward an uncritical support for national liberation struggles outside the Euro-American sphere, without regard for where these struggles were leading and the authoritarian nature of their leadership. As the 1960s progressed, this incredibly confused movement in fact steadily shed the anarchistic and universalistic ambience with which it had begun.

Put bluntly, nationalisms are regressive atavisms that the Enlightenment tried to overcome long ago. They introject the worst features of the very empires from which oppressed peoples have tried to shake loose. Not only do they typically reproduce state machines that are as oppressive as the ones that colonial powers imposed on them, but they reinforce those machines with cultural, religious, ethnic, and xenophobic traits that are often used to foster regional and even domestic hatreds and subimperialisms."

but there is literally nothing wrong with nationalism.
youtube.com/watch?v=DMTJPTK4QzI

Why is Nationalism for the goyim inherently worse than Zionism? Whats with the double standard? This is a terrible argument because many forms of nationalism could be seen as a self defense mechanism.

There shouldn't be a double standard. All forms of ethno-nationalism must be purged. No excpetion.

SocDems always argue in bad faith.

My theory is that the double-standard emerged mostly because the extreme opposition of the "anti-imperialist" and tankie left to people pushing an internationalist, anti-nationalist agenda sortof made people more and more sympathetic to the targets of those "anti-imperialists" over time. As the nucleus of people behind what became the anti-german movement took a neutral stance on Israel (seeing all states as unnatural constructs not deserving of support), the hardline anti-semites and anti-zionists on the left threw tantrums at these people for not supporting shitty third world dictatorships, which pushed people into being pro-Israel as a reaction. All nationalism, including zionism, has to eventually be done away with: all anti-germans believe this. But overcoming one nationalism and replacing it with something worse is not acceptable. Basically, anti-germans support Israel because the alternate program is "let's set up another tin-pot Islamist or Baathist dictatorship across the entire region" which is not a viable option.

The hope for universal, international emancipatation through socialism has at least for now failed, so the idea is to look for what can allow Jews to survive until that actually can happen. Support for Israel is rationalised, at least temporarily, because it is considered as a form of Jewish emancipation and self-defence against other nationalisms. Many anticapitalist and anti-Zionist narratives are based on antisemitic memes: the Jew is an "outsider" who is hungry for the blood of the gentile, the Jew is the 1 percent exploiting the 99 percent, the Jew is the warmonger that is stirring up trouble and strife. To put it simply, the primary contradiction in many societies isn't considered to be class, but one of the "people" against the "foreigner" who is often considered to be Jewish, or at least based on Jewish stereotypes. The ruling class of many countries in the Middle East undermine class consciousness by promoting the primary contradiction as one of being the Ummah against the Jew, just as happened through much of medieval Europe and in Hitler's Germany with the Jew being seen as the disloyal foreigner to the local honorable Christians, and so Israel existing is probably better than it not existing, because at least they have the ability to fight back when people try to slaughter them or exile them now: they actually have a place to go, and they can defend themselves, and this arrangement should probably continue until we're not going to see them forced out of their homes and exiled or even genocided because of their race.

I mean, it's fairly obvious there's a huge double standard on the left around the middle east: the syrian civil war has killed more than 20 times the amount of people than the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict has in the past 50 years, but in my city when there's rallies for Rojava or for other subjugated minorities in the region you might get like a dozen people… but against Israel, there's eight, nine hundred, a thousand. You never hear a peep out of much of the left for Jordan's role in occupying the West Bank, or Egypt occupying Gaza, or the role the Arab states have had in refusing to integrate Palestinians (as Israel did to the 800k Jews forced out of their homes in those states). Anti-germans think it's important to support Israel until the removal of Zionism can still result in self-determination of Jews: it's not support for Zionism just because, and it's not uncritical support (there's a lot of internal debates about how shitty some of the Israeli right is, for instance), it's a temporary arrangement until some kind of confederation of self-governing communities, perhaps under a socialist economic situation, can emerge instead.

Go away, Soros.

All nationalism is shit. Still, nonetheless the only antifa tendency as opposed to nationalism as I am is the anti-national tendency. Thus, I support this, and not the rest of the anti-imp influenced antifa.

Because of the matriarchy.

Isn't antifa overwhelmingly ancom though? M-Ls haven't really been into it since the WW2 and the interwar period.

There are leftcom antigermans… In general the mode of critical theory is based around criticising what is. So they atleast wont care the least about not doing much more than negating everything thats has to be negated.

I wouldn't say it is "overwhelmingly" ancom. There is certainly a significant proportion of it that is ancom, however there's also quite a large segment of it that more-or-less agrees with Marxism, and especially Leninism, of some form or another.

But irrespective of the ideology that an individual claims to subscribe to, national liberation and anti-imperialism have infected the left like a virus, whatever ideology one subscribes to, be it Communalism, anarchism of some form or another, marxism, etc.

The antinational/german - antiimp devide seems to go across all sectarian lines.

well if you're going to be pro-israeli
Why aren't you a Zionist National Bolshevist?

they had a cool song too
youtube.com/watch?v=JgM4auRw2Tc

Because nazbols, and turd positionism generally, are shit. Google Murray Bookchin.

Does whoever made that image even understand how flags work?

I did and it looks like boring hippie leftcom crap about equality and rationalism

Google George Sorel.

Hell yeah it's about rationalism, you degenerate irrational. "Equality" needs some elucidation:

"Fourth, we must totally reconceptualize our ideas of justice and freedom. No one is “equal” to everyone else in any society, whether it be in terms of our personal diminishing powers in the life-cycle or the different capacities, experiences, and knowledge that distinguish one person from another (such as physical strength, certain abilities, and the like). A new society will want to be guided by an ethics of complementarity, as I have called it, that tries to equalize the differences within and between people—in short, that will be guided by an “equality of unequals”—rather than retain the pretensions of justice that regard “all people” as equal, notably as an “inequality of equals.” Unlike justice, which works from the pretensions that all are equal in theory, despite their many differences in fact, freedom makes no pretense that all are equal but tries to compensate for the inequalities that occur with age, physical infirmity, and different abilities." - new-compass.net/articles/alternatives-antihumanism

Amazing article, Zionist Holla Forums flag when?

If your nationalism is built on irrational anti-elitist sentiment it's bad, if it's built on the preservation of order, peace and stability it's legitimate.
If your nationalism consists of lumpen krauts revolting against muh debt slavery or low Autism Level Africans and Arabs revolting against their betters it's bad, if your nationalism is Jews fleeing from spooked german farmers, or Europeans physically removing muslim invaders, it's still bad, but justified.

Basically this. At least in Germany, I am not sure how it is everywhere else. The antiimps are maybe 1/5th of the far left, the antigermans are about 1/3rd, and people who have a position between the two make up the majority. This is actually a more important split than what ideology one subscribes to- every ideology seems split in different proportions between the two camps, and I feel that in Germany at least it's far more likely to see MLs, anarchists, trots, leftcoms, bookchinites etc working together united by opposition/support for the antideutsch or antiimps than it is in other countries who are far more likely to split along ideological lines and stick to their own groups, MLs with MLs, anarchists with anarchists, etc.

Are you sure this is the case, at least with communalism? I mean apart from one or two weird tankies I've run into on various Bookchin-dedicated pages who have a hateboner for Israel, communalism is pretty distinctly anti-nationalist in outlook. As I said above it was arrived at independently compared to the anti-germans, but both share a distinct distaste for replacing one state with another, and a focus on building local communities focused on workers as opposed to supporting reactionary forces arrayed against the west.

This isn't quite right, but you're close. It's that often revolts against "betters" are focused on replacing one statist ruling force with another, that is often more reactionary. It does not advance communism or anything like that at all, and often has the opposite effect- moments of severe crisis in capitalism can lead to fascism just as often as it leads to class consciousness. Anti-germans don't really support nationalism for anyone, even Israelis, as an end goal: they see zionism as a mandatory _short-term_ solution to Jews being holocausted or purged or pogromed again. The vast majority of Jews (about two thirds) in Israel are those, and their descendents, that were purged from former Ottoman territories in the 40s- until we have a situation that they're not going to get purged again from those countries if they ever return, then supporting Israel's existence as a stop-gap measure is required.

What aspects of the modern german nation state do you criticize or reject specifically?

I hate Germans, but I like their girls. What do?

I am anti-national. I specifically despise and am metaphysically opposed to any and all manifestations of State power and estabslishment of borders. I'm not even anti-fa in the smashie retard black bloc sense, though I do oppose fascism, I just see nationalism and nation-states as tools for Warrior/Merchant/Political/Religious classes to dominate the proles and stymie creativity/evolution. Nationalism always leads to either civil war or imperialism without fail. It may only be economic imperialism but it is inevitable regardless if it is all out colonization or merely financial feudalism a la the EU and the Southern Euro states or the IMF and the Global South. i oppose the State of Israel because I'm anti-national, not because i care about Arab nationalism or """""""""""Palestinians"""""""""" but because any form of nation-state is a threat to people's self sovereignty. I agree that this has nothing to do with mulitculturalism or humanist notions of equality. Its purely a position of OPPOSITION to tyrannical and arbitrary authority that manifests as a military-religious-economic monopoly on truth, violence and legitimacy. Society can survive without legislators, judges, police, executioners and prisons. I know, because me and my friends have never organized hierarchically and I have no formal system of justice and yet we get on like our own community. I do however advocate deindustrialization and association in small tribal units. These tribes will share territory with other like minded tribes and be separated by geography rather than borders. Migration is inevitable, but a flexible and holistic minded culture will adjust to this naturally. It also can't be helped that sometimes war will happen, if we have small tribes warfare will be far less damaging to the species and environment.

can the israeli right wing apartheidist scum posting with the YPG flag who just happened to be born jewish so he shills for israel please get banned?

Marx was german. there is nothing wrong with germans.

fuck you fake "PRO ISRAEL" leftists, you are a joke and stand for every single thing leftism is against.

I'm drunk, excuse me. I don't know why I included Communalism on that list, being as it is actually quite anti-nationalist.

t. sameposter.

It's cute you're just making one sentence rants about how I need to be banned instead of trying to tie yourself in knots arguing how "real leftists" should support reactionaries, fascists, and theocrats over liberal democracies like you usually do. Do you even listen to yourself?

I actually own a copy of his book, was quite surprised to see it and read it, I didn't know there were any English language resources until I stumbled across it randomly at a book store one day. I am not actually German myself, but agree that communalism and anti-nationalist ideas are very compatible. That said I do know a couple of people who consider themselves MLs who are antideutsch, they just reject Lenin's reinterpretation of imperialism to only include "capitalist" countries.

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arab nationalism and islamic nationalism along with ethno-nationalism are in direct conflict with core Left wing values. Palestine is a fictional mythical state that Arab theocrats invented, the Ottoman's adopted, the British legislated into existence and now the UN has uplifted to nation-state status. None of this is a legitimate reason for arabs to colonize land that they have vacated. The jews and arabs who live there RIGHT NOW are the rightful inhabitants and they should do well to dissolve their borders and being mixing their culture with the Jordanians and Sinai Egyptians. The idea of Jewish-Arab separation is laughable. Most Israeli jews are dating or married to Israeli Arabs. Palestinians are literally ancient middle eastern Jews who converted to Islam. A dark Mizrahim and Israeli Arab look almost identical. Jewish and Arab women look extremely similar and tend to mate with similar ethnic groups from the greater Mediterranean racial family. This idea that one violent ethno-state should be supplanted by another is preposterous. If Palestine became a unified state today and Hamas put in charge, mass deportations, seizure of resources, arrests and killings would take place against Jews and Christians just as when the Zionists took over and brutalized the local Muslims and Christians. Just because you recognize the invalidity of the right wing ethno-nationalist Zionist state does not make your offered solution at all sensible, rational, moral or even viable.

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They're nothing but globalist lapdogs.

Yeah. Being obnoxious idiots sure is the way to grow the movement.

This is why Holla Forums exists.

100% PURE IDEOLOGY

Does this mean that pol was right? The sentiments of anti-deutsche seem to be common among the more ID-pol addled parts of the left, r/scocialism and such. Though opposition to it would probably be mostly caused by the support Israel has from the right in the US, ironically

This shit is so fucking retarded.

Fuck Germans, even when they try and be against fascism they end up supporting it.

youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

I'll be your lapdog anytime, user

Unless its Zionism, of course.

The whole things sounds like a bait for national consciousness to rise up, are you really expecting people to stand and listen how their country is being poured shit on? Antifa is indeed fucking retarded group that exists only to create fascism from reverse psychology.
One thing is when you unite everyone under socialist union, the other when you want to completely erase one country's identity and watch people get angry over it. But now after all liberal shit europe gone through, i don't think normalfags will approve communism because they will hate it as fuck on the basis that they will think its the same as social democracy they live through right now. Its almost impossible to woke them up from future rise of nationalism, maybe only if they will regret it later.

Fuck off, American scum.

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Fuck off fritz, you Germans completely lack the ability to shed yourself of fascism.

What else do you expect of Germans?

Its exactly the other way around. Antigermans are anti idpol in Germany and in general anti nationalists are the same. If you look at r/socialism you will discover the weirdest mixture; the tankier the more idpol. Maoists are the worst for some reason.

In general tankies and antiimps seem to be incapable of arguing. Just screeching without arguments in this thread. Reminds me of when that Bunkermag article was written.

You are just a fat American who probably couldn't find planet Earth on a globe. Go back to driving your scooter through WalMart and stop pretending to be a socialist you degenerate yank.

Workers of the world unite, except for Americans. Fuck Americans.

well at the very least American socialists did not embezzle funds for the poor in order to spend on BDSM sluts, which is more than one can say about the German "Socialists"

Also why did you kill Rosa?

Idiot American confirmed.

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Unless its Zionism, of course.

anti-germans are cia warmonger shill

if you dont get antigerman positions do not critisize them in such stupid ways

(disclaimer: im not an anti-german)

Says the person who comes from a country where 90% of the population think that free healthcare is communism, lol.

What the difference when on Holla Forums D&C happens between countries, and on Holla Forums?
I think its the same divisive shit over nothing, its not even ideology, you care about your national identities too much to be proud of them, you all live in capitalist countries, so you all live in shit.

Because I am sick of constantly being associated with fascism just because I happen to be German.

You live in capitalist shithole and care too much about your nation. Try to think of yourself as a human first, as a worker, because nation, race, gender are all just spooks and mean nothing. An individual can do much more when he drops chains of his identities. What the point to being proud of your country that exploits you and your other citizen anyway? On Holla Forums one user is not better than the other. Being concerned too much about your race and nation is a way of actually becoming fascist.

I understand, you can't help it due to your German blood and culture. I think you need a pat on the back because fighting against your natural German instincts must be hard.

Truly I do feel bad for you, having the blood of fascism running in your veins must be simply horrible

LÖSCH DICH

Antideutsche were always a fringe movement within the German left and are probably just COINTELPRO.

Find a rope to hang yourself

I think your pic answers your question very well.

Well, there really isnt
Both are liberals, "communist" parties are just more leftist and the CDU/CSU is a bit more to the right
No true leftist party over there
Germans should honestly just vote NPD to give liberals a heart attack

youtube.com/watch?v=gezhciwVRqY&bpctr=1488307565

TOETET DIESE ANTIDEUTSCHE HUEREN SOEHNE

Nah fam, antideutsch make up like 1/3rd of the radical left, anti-imperialist dickheads have significantly fewer people. Which is as it should be.

Also they have the best tunes: youtube.com/watch?v=mvK_5nNPKr8

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Hardcore antigermans are fringe, but general antinational sentiments are atleast as strong as antiimperialist sentiments. And especially tankies like you shouldnt call others fringe man. I take the most autistic antigermans over retards like you everyday.

That song is shit tbh, although its pretty funny how Antilopen Gang has blown up.

Also still waiting for a somewhat reasoned response by the triggered nationalists here, its really not hard to criticise antigermans but seems like you guys cant even manage that.

What else do you expect from middle-upper class German kids who want to be seen as edgy?

Those kinds of people are more concerned with being lifestylists than achieving socialism.

I wonder who could be behind this post!

I've seen enough of kasama project to know where all maoism goes

Weiner
*childish sniggering*

you should probably just embrace us user, we have the best bitches anyway.
Except for that Tila thing, I have no idea who let that in.

Again, it's not antinationalist when it's supporting US-imperialism and Israel's ethno-nationalism.

Explain to me how you will get the support of the German working class by literally telling them so genocide themselves and destroy every remnant of their identity. Not my comrade.

The joke is you are a YPG fag which is pretty much based on Kurdish nationalism. Nochmal: Lösch dich

Shouldn't you guys support Der Dritte Weg as they are literal Asserists?

Because Rosa wrote cool stuff while he was just her sidekick.

Yeah, it's pretty damned surprising how popular they've gotten. I really liked the more rock versions of their songs that were bundled with their newest album more than their hip-hop stuff tho.

What do you think the easiest criticisms are, though? Honestly I have rarely run into someone who doesn't just go "BUT JOOS ISRAEL IS SATAN MUH ANTI-IMPERIALISM DEATH TO THE LEFT" it's pretty predictable.

reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/5wvqah/stillmoose_friend_of_mine_thinks_the_wave_of/

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Just one more proof that Antideutsche are just hijacked opposition.

Well as long as you refuse to answer for Israel's crimes and defend them just because they are Jews you are a highly spooked individual and your opponents have every right to rub that into your face.

You don't have to like anti-imperialist tankie Maoists like Jason Unruhe to be against imperialism. You seem to conflate an anti-interventionist stance which is as old the left itself with anti-imperialism/Third Worldism as an autonomous ideology. There is nothing wrong with being against Western imperialism but then again, you are carrying the YPG flag.

Nimm deine Medikamente du Kasper.

>>>/fbi/

There's nothing wrong with Zionism

This. Israel is the only beacon of democracy in the middle east.

shitposting level: infinite

there's something wrong with nationalism hiding imperialism, which is what all nationalist movements seek to do. Trojan Horse'ing expansionist designs as "muh self-determination" isn't acceptable in this era

This is exactly the tragedy that the left has to combat, when people take refuge in national identity then it means that their local community and culture has been eroded to death by capitalism

Its way more complex than that but I dont expect you vulgar commie to understand

Seems like you have never actuallly read a bit of antigerman publications

The way antigermans lead their discourse is downright horrible and is to blame for a lot of misunderstandings, the support for "western values" gets taken to straight up neocon levels at times. There are quite a lot of leftcom sentiments among antigermans that lead to fruitless useless critques of problems they dont understand in extremely generalized terms. I miss an expansion of the analysis of the issue of antisemitism and capitalism into more general terms. That the mechanisms that reeinforce antisemitism under capitalism allways get explained solely in relation to jews is imo a mistake. I think once you put the theory into more general terms the critique of zionism would gain depth as the jewish situation would be seen less as a one out. And you would have to argue why other minorities dont deserve a safe nation when the jews do, which is imo possible but is necessary to add depth. The defense of liberalism against reactionary "communists" is clearly necessary but focuses to little on the things that make liberalism the basis for the transformation to communism and thus contributes to the general lack of strategy among the german left.

I am not to deep into the general german far left discussion sphere so I my impression might be pretty superficial.

Expansionism is the goal. A global Jewish state is ideal

The jews are whats wrong with zionism

Jewish National Bolshevism will win

sounds like a great future

That doesn't mean you have to take on a nationalist stance to subvert proles to support socialism but Internationalism is still not the same as the decided anti-nationalism of the vulgar anti-Germans that literally tells German proles that they being bombed and fucked in the arse by the US is a good thing. That's just reverse IdPol.

You'll never ever get to have a hold of the German proletariat with such a stance, no matter how much you shitpost Stirner on imageboards. All it needs is a right-winger calling you self-hating cucks and they will rather flock to him. Marxist-Leninist standpoint:

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1929/03/18.htm

Israel exists. That's already a problem. They have a religious symbol on their flag and are pretty much an Apartheid state. They must transform into a secular state with the same rights for Arabs or perish in the Palestinian struggle for self-determination.

Plus, Antideutsche are most known to harass journalists who are critical of Israel. By accusing everybody of Antisemitism they pretty much condone Israel's actions.

Now look, suddenly national struggle for self-determination has to be viewed differentiated and detailed. Don't you dare to generalize the Kurds like that you tankie! But this only applies to the ethnicities I like. Your ideology is incoherent and, first and foremost, a massive faggotery.

WEW LAD

Suck my dick nigger

This is some high level of baiting right there. Nazbol advocating for israel is almost not ironic.

the mystery of why they don't just call themselves nazis is resolved

NazBol is the edgiest of the edge, it's ideological appeal is defined by its internal contradictions.

A perfect expression of the post-ideological age in which we live.

The global zionist state is the clear derivative of Nationalism Bolshevism. Read a book.

Thats why tankies are retarded

Have fun with your tribalism and reactionary societies that will never advance towards communism

Did you read the rest of my post?

I will gladly stand on the side of porky to stop people like you, there is no need to take the step into the abyss in the name of progress.

That would, by definition, be regress not progress

I don't consider the industrialization and the development of the Russian feudal state into a world power a short term gain. Also didn't sacrifice my ideology. Read Marx. Did you know he supported the 1848 nationalist revolution?

Capitalism is. Liberalism is just a variation of capitalism. Lenins NEP was capitalist to bridge this gap you are going on about, but clearly not liberal.

And that's why you are not my comrade and the left is dead.

If you think that the left should be that then I am glad that its dead

Stop posting anytime

Oh no, I'd completely agree with that. Everyone is so used to arguing with retarded tankies that often there's just an immediate position taken that is hostile to anyone questioning any antideutsch position: talk, debate, discourse are so often irrelevant that many people just have a knee-jerk reaction towards anyone questioning a support for enlightenment values.

Yes, I think the antigerman stance on nationalism is basically identical to that expressed by left communists. The same criticisms of left communists can usually be levelled against antigermans.

This I also agree with. But most antigermans are well read on critical theory: we believe that politics follows culture. It is no use to put the cart before the horse, or we might end up with fascism instead, and because everyone is too paranoid of this we settle for just helping refugees, fighting the far-right fringe, setting up social centres, none of which really challenge the status quo our outline a progression towards communism. I guess my viewpoint is different: my country is a lot more conservative than Germany and our left is even weaker still, and I see the German situation as being far better than our own, because while directionless at least there's some outline of a potentiality there. In my country, or places like America, a working class revolution looks like Trump or worse, and this is a step backward.

There is a strong defence about needing to defend enlightenment values. Secularism, respect for difference, social equality, universal rights and other "enlightenment values" are mandatory conditions for socialism to develop, but in reality the support for Israel is primarily instigated out of opposing the anti-imperialist left's hatred of these things: Israel represents everything they despise, and not only because they are anti-semites. So the framework for supporting Israel is not something that can be easily supported by itself without referring to the anti-semitism of the "anti-imperialists" in the first place, so it is difficult to expand this into a more general support for nation states.

Not everyone who argues against your retarded tendency is a tankie.

I'm not surprised.

Wrong, political culture follows general culture, political content is pretty much the result of material conditions. You won't get fascism unless the bourgeoisie resorts to it as their last option, which is the story of every fascist "revolution". Hitler never gained a majority in the Reichstag.

By trying to achieve Socialism through cultural change you are confirming Holla Forumss Cultural Marxism bullshit besides being decidedly anti-materialist as you engage in identity politics. Besides, what's your aim anyway? German mainstream, media and politicians are all anti-nationalist and unconditionally support Israel. Germany has been guilt-tripped for 70 years. Really dude, we are fine. We are not evil anymore.

Trumps election has made more American proles class conscious then ever before. You can not have a progression towards socialism as long as the """left""" is just neoliberals - you need to denounce them first and don't fall for the "lesser evil" bullshit.

You are supporting a state which was founded on a biblical prophecy and has their religious/ethnic symbol as their flag.

Spook. You can not have a revolution as long as you defend the universal rights of the bourgeoisie.

Absolute horseshit and a baseless accusation. Antisemitism is based in racism retard.

Again, to be against Maoists you don't have to be pro-Imperialism, Jesus Christ

It's pretty fucking easy once you give up the stupid narrative of Jews being the most persecuted group on the planet, even though when they are the most muh privileged group since 1945 in reality. What's your argument for the Roma and Sinti not having their own state? They even got genocided in muh Holocaust as well

Anyone who is pro-Palestinian is a fascist.

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Reminder that Yahweh demands that the cumskin goyim be put to death, andle happy merchant meemdammit we BASED leftlypol will do it.

Cumskin genocide when?

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Insignificant moralfags that just want to restore the Reich

"Dialectical naturalism is thus integrally wedded to the objective world–a world in which Being is Becoming. Let me emphasize that dialectical naturalism not only grasps reality as an existentially unfolding continuum, but it also forms an objective framework for making ethical judgments. The "what-should-be" becomes an ethical criterion for judging the truth or validity of an objective "what-is." Thus ethics is not merely a matter of personal taste and values; it is factually anchored in the world itself as an objective standard of self-realization. Whether a society is "good" or "bad," moral or immoral, for example, can be objectively determined by whether it has fulfilled its potentialities for rationality and morality. Potentialities that are themselves actualizations of a dialectical continuum present the challenge of ethical self-fulfillment–not simply in the privacy of the mind but in the reality of the processual world. Herein lies the only meaningful basis for a truly ethical socialism or anarchism, one that is more than a body of subjective "preferences" that rest on opinion and taste."

With the rejection of cultural relativism, and an embrace of an ethics which sets moral standards based on rationality and morality, particularly with due respect to Enlightenment, this is an easier subject to touch on.

FUERA SIONISTAS!

I really hope we can start to develop an anti nationalist, anti statist, pro enlightment values, anti idpol leftist current that doesnt fall into the trap of anti organisation anarchism or marxist authoritanism.

I agree completely, comr8.

OY VEY.

They might pretend to be, but they are just Nazis wanting a fascist Reich
Pic related is where they belong

What did he mean by this?

You dont have to be pro-Palistine to be anti-Israel.

stop posting my waifu… She has such a beautiful dick

Look, all i'm saying is that pushing all the blame YET AGAIN on a single nation and a single group of people seems pretty spooked to me.

Do i think they got it pretty easy after WW2?
Sure.
Do i think most of germany for the past years has just been putting on a mask to seem socially acceptable to the rest of the world?
Sure.
Do i want to gulag every single german?
I don't see what it's going to accomplish.
If anything, i think right now there'a way more nazis in the US than in germany itself.

Don't bother. There's nothing left of German nationalism to destroy. It's a little bit sad, in a way…

ahahahahaAHAHAHAH what. my parents were kicked out of their homes where they've lived for thousands of years so some european colonialist british backed zionist fascist could have a house there based on his religion. fuck your retarded mental gymnastics. you are not a leftist, just an asshole "secular jew" who is shilling for an apartheid state and exploited population

lol you know absolutely nothing

kill yourself zionist shit

>Regressive PC anarcho-COMMUNIST calling anyone a fascist :^)

You're going to have to explain this one to me, Shlomo.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

yes this is perfectly accurate thanks user