Daily reminder that prostitution is not a "victimless crime", as it is inherently exploitative, not a choice, not a real job, and fuels trafficking. We should strive towards the abolition of this abusive practice through the implementation of the Nordic model, which decriminalises the sellers, and criminalises the buyers and the pimps.
Discuss.
But what about redistributing the pussy? Chads get 20% of the women and we get the scraps. It's why I turned to qt traps.
Kill yourself
So how exactly will putting the oldest profession on the black market cause fewer murders?
In capitalism all jobs are inherently exploitative.
This.
The oldest "profession" is specialization in power, not prostitution.
Every job that is practiced because the person simply has to eat and pay bills is, by definition, exploitative. If everyone would be free of such constraints and could pick any job they wanted however, I would hazard a guess that prostitution would be more popular than welding or telemarketer.
Most women and girls (and some men and boys too) are tricked/forced into prostitution. Many desperately want to get out.
After the Nordic model was introduced in Sweden, the total number of prostituted women dropped from 3,000 to about 400.
Well I guess you cant argue with results in that specific country, but legalization tends to have a similar effect in others.
I think the main priority is that sex workers be treated with more respect. At the very least decriminalized in the sense that they can come to the police without worry.
Most jobs are exploitative though. Not that I don't agree with the whole anti-prostitution schtick. Just pointing it out.
I do agree that buyers should be criminalized. This is not the same as forcing it into the black market. It's giving sex workers a way out.
This is a job automation will fix very soon. Will the recent development of sex androids human females will no longer need to do these jobs as robots could do them better. Although I foresee many people in the future having one of these robots at home and with the changeable personalities and appearance prostitutes will become obsolete. Even human-human marriage may become a thing of the past. it's not a bad thing with artificial wombs and cloning and it will result in happier households and environments for the children
Not having sex is exploitative and dehumanizing.
Prostitutes come from poor backgrounds and have no other means of subsistence? Let's take their livehood away from them!
Germany: 400000 prostitutes, 17 murders per 100k
Sweden: 2000 prostitutes, 50 murders per 100k
GUISE IT'S WORKING SO WELL!
Can confirm, am wizard.
No it's not. If you are to much of a freak for anyone to want to fuck you then that's on you, bucko.
NO
Just implement socialism then see if there still is prostitution. If there is a fair amount still you decriminalize it, if there isn't much left then you dont need to outlaw it.
Sage for bourgeois liberalism.
You won't hear a peep out of me, prostitution is one of the most vile professions in existence.
this board is full of retards
Why not get them into more productive jobs?
Why not kill yourself, liberal? That will do more for sex workers than any of your precious Victorian hangups ever will.
Welders fucking love welding. It's pretty fucking cool!
...
Why should the buyers be criminalized? We have some posters here who've bought sex. You want to send them to jail?
Prostitution is definitely an exploitative business, just like all wage jobs, albeit it having worse conditions and being more degrading.
I am afraid that we can never solve this problem without first solving the cause that put these women in a situation that forces them to whore themselves out. That is, we can't solve this unless we solve capitalism and wage labour.
Also, what is "looked after children" supposed to mean?
You're still getting scraps with a prostitute. We won't be able to redistribute pussy until we achieve communism.
stop being autistic
i dunno why you hate prostitution when its the only way for you and your fascist buddies to get laid
yeah but some jobs are worse than others. most jobs dont give you ptsd.
There is nothing wrong with selling sexual services. The circumstances that force people into survival prostitution should be abolished, not prostitution itself.
Not an argument.
The statistic doesn't say what gave the prostitute PTSD. Besides, being a street walker and a brothel worker are completely and radically different.
prostitution will become obsolete the moment personally designed sex androids can be acquired. At which point everyone will make a near universal switch to fucking machines for pleasure, giving us more time to focus on other pursuits such as work or the self rather then spend the time and effort to get a gf.
Prostitution is no more or less coercive than any other unpleasant job that people do to survive in capitalism. Prove me wrong.
Hard mode: No feminist bullshit
What exactly is one's "full" right, dare I ask, and from where did it issue? Why can't you kids differentiate intelligibly between recreational and procreational functions and treat them separately?
Most workplaces don't, either. I suspect the problem has more to do with the workplace than anything intrinsic to the service itself.
Pro tip: I can't.
Any takers for expert mode? No Abrahamic bullshit at all.
So it's just like other low-wage labor under capitalism? I'm sure the solution must be to criminalize this particular industry and not to strive to end exploitation (i.e. capitalism) across the board!
It depends on the specific scenario. Prostitutes with pimps are likely coerced under threat of violence to continue prostituting. There's also being outed as a prostitute possibly killing career opportunities and forcing them into that or porn to be able to eat. Then we get into where it is illegal and some of the issues they may have with the law and criminal records.
But if we were talking in a scenario where it was legal and "voluntary" with a reasonable degree of anonymity, then no it isn't particularly more coercive then any of the other shit jobs out there.
The Nordic model goes one step further in that it is decriminalized for the woman and they offer tons of support for sex workers who want to get out (or fear they will get pulled in)
If I had to guess drug problem management is also very related to the success of the model
Yeah because laying on your back collecting STD's like Pokemon is such a great benefit for civilization, you're clearly so offended because either you are a hooker and like getting paid to do nothing or some butthurt john
Sexbotmind
Indirectly, this is true for any other low-wage job.
There are two oppressive agents in this situation, and neither of them is any party to the working relationship. One is the privacy-violating, attention-seeking busybody, and the other is the bourgeois employer who believes he has a right to improve society by starving other people. Both of those agents can fuck themselves in gulag.
So it's not the work itself that's exploitative, but society's ill-informed prejudices against it.
Kill yourself, liberal americuck half-breed.
How's that prolapsed anus feeling?
2aryan4u
Well yes, I agree with that of course, but the moral crusader anti sex people are usually the ones who want to keep prostitution illegal.
but what about emotional intimacy? and the like
It should absolutely be criminal to solicit sex but not to sell it. This is about the only sane way to avoid a disaster like Germany, where soliciting prostitution is widely accepted and the race to the bottom of free-market competition has lead to an abysmal quality of life for prostituted women. I am always extremely dismayed when people on the left use the virtual myth of the "entrepreneurial" sex worker to support decriminalizing prostitution in toto. There may be indeed a very small contingent of petit-bourgeois women who select prostitution out of personal impulse, but having sex with strangers is such a dangerous and fraught way to make a living that almost nobody "decides" to become a prostitute in the presence of alternatives.
THAT SAID, I am skeptical of anyone who suggests that the solution to any deeply embedded societal problem is a matter of policy. Such an attitude reeks of liberal reformism. Sad to say, but I seriously doubt "adopting the Nordic model" is going to "solve" the problem of prostitution.
Robots can simulate it, in fact they'd probably be more convincing
im coerced under threat of starving to continue working at walmart tho
what if i am the prostitute and the pimp?
what about mutual aid but prostitutes?
Even if this is provisionally true, I find it hard to believe that the anons going "exploitative eh? So just like EVERY job under capitalism?" are doing so in good faith and not just being infuriatingly obtuse for the sake of it.
Why not turn them into wage slaves, you ask? I dunno, you should ask capitalists.
So let me get this straight, I took the exact statistics OP posted, added context to them, and it was only that single fact that magically made them unreliable?
Well, I find it hard to believe that people crying exploitation on this one specific kind of work are doing so in good faith and not just being infuriatingly obtuse for the sake of their anti-sex moral crusade.
If I have to wageslave so should everyone else. But seriously if you somehow reach your post scarcity meme then I won't give a shit. But as it was pointed out earlier they will be made obsolete very soon by robots
Not an argument
Why do you believe that bourgeois Protestant morality has any inherent value or influence in the lives of anyone but yourself? Tbf I only see obtuseness in the stubborn promulgation of Judeo-Christian sexual mores and bourgeois romance and after-school-special-tier muh cooties whining.
Exactly this. Considering that OP's take on sex work is a particularly Democratic position, and being stubbornly pushed as a norm in line with neoliberal propaganda plans, I don't wonder at all who could be behind this post and I don't object at all to them being lashed to it for public entertainment.
I can only speak for myself, but I assure you that I think the soliciting of prostitution should be seriously discouraged out of love and sympathy for humankind. Look into the day-to-day lives of prostitutes in Germany and decide if you think that situation is acceptable, and if I am really just a sex-hating crypto-Puritan for wanting that abolished.
spooks
I think you're a liberal and need to kill yourself for thinking that your chosen examples are somehow representative of anything but your own prejudices and competitive nature.
But what about people whose fetish is to prostitute themselves?
what is a close friend?
What turbo retard is responsible for the country "info graph"? The number of dead people is not set in relation to the population size. Take a guess how many people live in Sweden and Germany. One number is about what happened in five years and another about three decades. Here is how normal crime statistics are presented: number of annual cases among, say, 100 000 people (it doesn't matter what specific number you use here, what matters is that it is the same number for the regions you compare). But thanks for telling me where Spain is…
Inb4 but correct methodology doesn't fundamentally change the outcome so it doesn't matter - Go icepick yourself.
Unironically yes.
Daily reminder that the only reason you're against prostitution is because you're a prude who can't wait for ideology trashcan lunchtime.
This board has had a lot of people like that lately. It's almost as if some worthless shithole of a website sent a bunch of posters here.
you don't get that from a prostitute anyways
Is there a time when we aren't under assault? A lot of the left and all of the right hates our guts.
If I am against rape does that make me a prude? It's one thing to say that one is against prostitution in a society with strong welfare, where there are always other options for people who choose to work as prostitutes. In a society without a social safety net, where no job means being homeless and having no food, and there is a lack of jobs, so you have the choice between starvation and prostitution, how is that different from rape? Is it not rape then because you can reject one or two johns? But you can't reject them all. I would call that rape. To deny that is like being part of a firing squad and denying that anybody is getting killed here, since the person you shoot gets riddled by just so many other bullets and would have died anyway without your contribution, so none of you is individually causing a death, so you are all non-killer individuals, adding up all these individuals with zero kills means that you as a firing squad in sum don't kill anybody. That defense is bullshit. So it is rape. Crowd-sourced rape. If you deny that, ask a firing squad to shoot you. What reason do you have to worry, after all nobody in the firing squad individually causes the death of anybody?
You have catastrophically failed to prove anything is objectively harmful about sex work, but have managed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that people like you who set the working conditions for the industry and enforce the stigma are THE problem. The women will be better off if you kill yourself. Prove otherwise, rapist liberal.
Holy sheeeit boi
That's one shitty ass argument you got there
It isn't. Sweden has pretty shit drug policies tbh. Talk of decriminalization is politically taboo, lots of parties actively oppose harm reduction programs like needle exchange, the debate is still ominated by petty moralizing. Sweden is shit at drug problem management.
I bet you support the war on drugs too user
You should know by now that things like anti-prostitution laws and age of consent laws are inherently authoritarian for restricting the freedom between consenting individuals to do what they want. This is no different than anti-gay laws.
wew
here we go again
Fuck off fascist. Austria has no such problems.
no surprises here lol
Oh no!
There are more reactionaries on the libertarian side, like Milo, who think society is too prudish about man-boy love and paraphilic relationships. This includes most fascists who preach about fun but watch all types of depraved pornography. Very odd how Holla Forums just 'came across' Slave Ray…
yup
yes
yup
yup
yes
no
the problem with trying to legislate morality is that it ends up hurting moral people far more often than immoral people. Many Johns are genuinely desperate incels whose minds are collapsing from a lack of intimacy and self confidence in their masculinity. While they shouldn't be fucking prostitutes, they are not criminals and have not acted as an aggressor towards anyone. We shouldn't throw them in rape cages just because they got their dicks wet with some illiterate 19 year old illegal immigrant for money. Most prostitution is to some degree consensual at least a lot of it is. Probably 40-50% is sex slavery and coerced, which is enough to make it a looked down upon trade, act and profession. I agree with you that it shouldn't be looked at as legitimate or empowering. But, this obsession with enforcing moral purity at the tip of a sword is egregiously stupid.
Prostitution thus becomes a necessary social institution of bourgeois society, just as the police, the standing army, the church and the capitalist class. - Babel
was he /ourguy/ all along?
Prostitution is the bare logic of capitalist society: a women's sexuality becomes a commodity to buy.
Could not care less about lonely virgins. Most of them are Elliot Rodger types who wholly believe they have a 'right' to women's sexuality and thus reproduce the capitalist logic.
Trips speak truly.
You seem to have trouble understanding what the argument even is. The argument is not all sex work = bad. The argument is that this depends on what choice people have who do sex work.
Men always fake it anyway. They all want mommy and that dries women up like the sahara.
Why should I give a shit about women's issues when women will never care about men, ever? The schizophrenia and hypocrisy are amazing.