So, let talk about the elephant in the room. what wrong with sonic and how can we fix it? ever since Sonic Forces hype has disappeared everyone now realize how much the boost gameplay is shit compare to Sonic Mania classic puzzle gameplay. and now SEGA is trying to shill it with the IDW Comic distracting everyone and hiding the fact that the whole game is nothing more than a cash grab.
TL;DR Sonic Team Should stop making games for a bit and recuperate
>>>/reddit/ is that way.
Case in point
>>>/4chan/
this is where you belong.
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Dissolve Sonic team and give it to taxman and his buddies.
Problem solved.
where would i go to play subpar linear 3d platformer games
>look up Tatsuyuki Maeda because I like his work on the 3D Blast soundtrack segaretro.org
What the fuck is this game
Sonic team at least in the past decade seems more of a way to build your portforlio so you can you can work at nintendo. I remember a forum post on some other site citing some of the names on the credits of sonic games popping up years later on nintendo games. So i'll have to dig that shit up. If true then there's a talent drain once they get competent, and sonic's best hope is fan devs like taxman getting a chance to make official sonic games.
What is this even supposed to mean? If they worked on the 3D games it's not like they were valuable talent.
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Fire every Virgins with their devianttier, kingdom hearts story tier, cinematic, hipster, feminin, western marketeer and moe/bishoujo ideals.
Hire instead Chads with experiences in game designing, managing, programming and extreme sports.
This is the cancer killing Sonic games, and even people who despise modern Sonic give it a pass because the 2D games had something similar.
At some point devs bought into the "gotta go fast" meme and decided it should be literally impossible to not go fast because they don't trust players to actually play the game.
Say what you will about boosting, at least it's going fast under Sonic's own power and the player's control, rather than DESIGNATED GO FAST FLOOR TILES.
They got rid of classic Amy.
Fuck Sonic Team, give Sonic to Overworks (or SEGA WOW or whatever the fuck they're called) because at least they managed to make good games like Skies of Arcadia and Shinobi. What has Sonic Team produced in the last 15 years that wasn't mostly or completely shit? Unfortunately, Overworks is fucking dead, and the people behind their older games are probably gone, so maybe this isn't exactly a viable solution.
As for gameplay, it's quite simple; You want a 3D Sonic game that is easily accessible with simple controls but that has a series of mechanics that allow you to traverse an environment very quickly. Since Sonic is all about going fast, you want to market the game to speedrunners instead of trying to devise mechanics that emphasize Sonic's actual travel velocity. I mean, you can still give players the impression that they're going fast, you can give Sonic some acceleration and allow players to increase their velocity in some controlled manner like the spin dash, but ultimately you want to design levels that require players to be very precise with their timing and execution so that they're incentivized to beat the course as quickly as possible. The courses should be built so that there are basic "beginner friendly" routes that don't require much player forethought, and "expert" routes that expect players to know how to use all the character's mechanics to get through alive and as fast as possible. You can either have two separate courses, so that you go into a menu and load one or the other, or you can integrate them and allow the player to maneuver between segments of each course.
You can still have all the same staple Sonic characters, and their respective moves, but adding in more characters is going to compound your work. You can't just release 10 characters for a single series of courses that they're all meant to share, unless you limit each character's abilities so that they're all pretty much identical in terms of actual performance OR you try and accommodate certain areas into every level that only they can traverse. Either way, this means more work in designing special abilities and more work in designing a larger variety of specialized courses.
Some additional ideas:
>Rings and shields are still functional, but you're not doing everything you can with them. Make rings have more utility, allow the player to have a "reserve stash" of rings that they can delegate to different functions (i.e. if you collect 50+ rings, you build one "reserve"; you can transform into Super Sonic or some other shit; Have special shields that offer some unique ability that consumes rings and you must have at least one reserve to use them; you can just hold onto your reserves for a boss fight, or maybe you could have a special game mode where you must collect the maximum number of reserves and then use them throughout the course of your entire playthrough the dark souls of sanic modes)
If you speedran the 3D games, you would know that those dash panels actually cap your speed, making you run slower than your actual max. We avoid those as much as possible.
which games do you speedrun
In terms of Sonic games: CD, Colors, Generations, and Mania.
So why do they exist? What do they add to the game? It's redundant.
They're there for the people who can't into fast.
it's furshit
by removing it
Fuck off OP, I was gonna make my thread but seems I have to post the video here.
WHY.
Maybe something happened during testing that made them have to scrap them.
Either re purpose Sonic Team to do other games or kill it entirely.
Then hire fan project devs to make countless games with a variety of genres.
/thread
also the design is buttfuckingly ugly, the fanbase is autistic and the good games are just a thing of the past.
KILL SONIC TEAM
Honestly, the best versions of Sonic I've played have been the Android versions of 1 and 2 and Mania. All have widescreen support so you can see what is going on and incoming while you go fast; were co-developed by Taxman. You do this with all Sonic games and they'll be fixed forever.
so this
As much as people complain about Boost2Win, at least you control when you boost. Before the Boost games, you could tell the 3D Sonic gameplay was decaying when you have long stretches of roads covered in dash panels only. Oh and you know another shitty level design I hate? Finding the switch to go to another path. This was prevalent in 06 and sadly in some levels in fan games modeled after Adventure. It especially pisses me off in fangames like Sonic Worlds, because they should know better. I appreciate the Boost games for at least having some level design that was able to flow in some ways. Ideally, you'd get level design that flows like the Boost games but instead of the Boost mechanic you have controls and additional level design that bring back the momentum mechanics.
Let me guess, they scrapped it because Sega was worried about the "too difficult" complaints from consumers.
Get someone competent to develop their physics engine, get the Mania crew to consult on level design, and don't the story so short that it seems like all of the suspense and action is happening offscreen.
If these three things were taken care of, Sonic Forces would have been fucking GOAT tier. Its already a fun game, but like EVERY FUCKING 3D Sonic game so far it is broken.
If that was the case then Sonic Mania wouldn't exist, it may have been Sonic Team themselves that came to this conclusion.
Get rid of the story. Nobody cares about cringeworthy Sonic stories. And get rid of all those extraneous characters too.
hooktube.com
DO NOT USE YOUTUBE ANYMORE AS THEY NOW HAVE CRYPTOCURRENCY MINERS IN THE ADS!!!
I do remember hearing that was a little curfuffle near the end of the games development, but now I wonder just what the Hell happened.
Forces story wasn't that bad, fam. Even the main villain was pretty cool if you are weeb enough not to listen to his homogay English VA. The problem with it was that it felt completely separate from the levels you are doing.
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What the fuck are ads?
My suggestion for the 3D ones would be to go back to the older Sonic Adventure games and see what worked there. See what worked in the more well received games basically. Then reflect on that shit and make a better game. Also: Stop adding retarded gimmicks. Please for the love of god, stop it.
This is a pretty good summary too.
Sorry I meant Sonic Team. Or at least Sega of Japan.
Couldn't find a designer competent enough to translate the gameplay into 3D thus causing the franchise to stagnate.
sage
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Should vertical movement in Sonic Games only ever be downward? It seems to be the best way to keep momentum going while still allowing for verticality in level design
Honestly I'd like to see a future Sonic game that combines Boost and Momentum, in a way that the Boost can be refilled only with kinetic energy from the momentum. That way if after rolling down at high speed from a hill and you come to an uphill slope, you could use the boost to speed through the uphill slope. It's a good way for players to strategize on when to curl up and when to use up your Boost if they ever want to stay in motion.
You have to do more then straight tracks where you are holding forward. Thats what the games feel like anymore and until they fix that problem, Sonic is going to remain shit.
What the fuck is this? A game making for autists?
It looks way too much like the hard mode DLC for unleashed
Mania guys did a good job on a 2d game because they got the job after rebuilding the 2d games because sega lost the source files for the original sonic games and couldn't port the games right.
There is no reason to believe they would necessarily do a good job on a 3d game.
Tone back the retarded plots but keep them if only to
1. Satisfy the fans who are invested in the story so they can be laughed at
2. Provide an excuse to continue to go into cool locations like outer space or the post apocalyptic future.
Keep the characters in the 2D games as slightly different version of Sonic, because that actually works well. There is no reason they shouldn't attempt to expand the Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles trinity.
Like its not even that hard, Sonic Advanced has done it before.
Ads are these things that old people have on their computers that slow down their internet but they refuse to remove. Like toolbars
I'm not defending Sonic Team just pointing out
>2006 Phantasy Star Universe debatable
>2008 Sonic Unleashed at least around 50% of it was good
They can make good things, the question is how to get them to do so.
There is nothing wrong with this at all, though some characters can't really be transferred like vector or the robot, though it would be intersting to see if an architype can be made for them but using from left to right
Make Shadow Sonic with a homing attack, and make his "spindash" just a chaos control peel out and his roll look on orange chaos control ball thing
Make Tits the bat knuckles but with a slower glide but a fast climb speed
Make Silver sonic but with the lightning shield double jump all the time
Make the bee tails that flys faster but gets tired quicker
Make espio sonic but can spend rings to bypass enemies by walking through them
People will be happy with them being playable even if its a token play ability.
What the fuck is going on here?
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Yes
It's been kept too long, it's past its expiration date. One need look at Sega's other mascots, like Alex Kidd or Nights. Other company mascots aren't immune to this either.
No, it's actual level design, that's a super simple example and it might seem like autistic over analysis in that example, but you really do want to think about every element of a level when you're making a platformer
The engines that all the recent sonic games run feel like they were designed with big set pieces and cinematic events, not detailed physics. All the boosters do is really just set your speed to a "high" value, not really give you an actual boost. It's a shame honestly, Sonic is starting to feel like a victim of shitty directors, not a "flaw in sonic's whole design"
Stop caring about the new shitty games from a greedy company and go play again and again the old classics for free.
Autism, son
Make a new Sonic from zero
I remember reading Game Informer back around 2006, when they "gave up" on sonic because every new game was so terrible. Just stop talking about Sonic. Give it up, it's a dead series, has been dead for a long time.
I know this is bait but I find it funny that nowadays game journos are banking extra hard on the "Sonic is dead and irredeemable" shit now after decent games when it was actually much more valid in 2006, because no one knew what to do with the current Adventure formula now that it failed spectacularly in one game and fans coming to save them is out of the question. Like if you said Sonic is dead in 2006, I'd actually agree. Nowadays it's Sonic is dead because he isn't selling Sega's version of the Labo.
Do you want an actual, full fledged autism essay for an answer? Or is this just a bait thread where everyone wants to shitpost and mope about "muh ded series" and fling memes about?
Because there is an answer, but it's not simple and easy to summarize.
I'm genuinely curious what you have to say.
Well, go on then user. Do what you must.
I understand shitting on videogame journalist for saying sonic is dead; But it is in a dead/zombie like state. but the reason sonic is in a zombie/ shell-of-a-former-self state is because fans keep defending it instead of not buying and asking for better. Sure there is always one aspect or function that is good in the 3D sonic games but it is always surrounded by mounds of shit which keep sonic games from ever getting better. The fanbase has no standards and will keep buying, so higher ups can set any release date, any stupid mechanic, and make it as tacked on and half assed as possible, the cult will buy it and defend it. Hopefully forces to mania comparisons might change the fan opinion and teach them to adopt a better standard but I doubt anything is gonna change.
I am curious about your answer. It might not be worth it since this conversation comes up all the time and you will have to repeat this for the rest of eternity
Give us your autism, user.
I hate to sound like Sammy here, but why does everyone seem to hate Sonic so much? Not all the modern games are bad. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and even Sonic Forces were okay. What the fuck else do you guys want?
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Please impart your scholarly knowledge on us
This.
Blocking just ads has no use. You gotta block the scripts in question.
Do it man.
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All the 3D games are bad, period.
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This attitude is what is keeping sonic games from getting any better and is the main problem with sonic.
Go for it. I'm looking forward to laughing at you.
NO BULLY
I'm expecting three pages worth.
Sonic started off as a series that was conceived as a marketing gimmick from the core- it was Mario, but FASTER and COOLER and RADICOOL. Everyone knows this, but more to the point, it ended up accidentally (or maybe intentionally) structuring a core element in games that was practically unheard of 'til then - physics. Being able to move at breakneck speeds wasn't impressive in of itself - it was that you had an organic sense of movement, like a pinball going through a machine (pretty sure that was their basis for the physics anyway, which is probably why we ended up with Sonic Spinball). First pic related - it might seem like hyper 'tism, but that shit matters.
This "physics" element extended to the rest of the original game - from the moving and dropping of blocks in Marble Zone, to the obvious springs and crushing blocks of Spring Yard Zone, to the floaty water physics of Labyrinth Zone, to the see-saws of Starlight Zone. It almost felt like a demo of what the Sega Genesis could do, with an actual game built ontop of it. It was original, and really made Sonic stand out as a series of games, separated from the aesthetic and marketing.
Fast forward to Sonic 2, Sonic CD, and Sonic 3 (& nipples), and you'll see where they went from "loose tech demo" to "polished, fun series of games" built around that core idea of a momentum/physics tech demo. The problem is, they still had inherited flaws from the core game - the tech itself was still holding back the potential for some actually fun shit. From small screen sizes, to limited level sizes, and so on - to the point that the only game that's universally praised in the series required two fucking cartridges and "lock on technology" to work.
There's already tons of stuff written about why the "classic" games are best in general, but I will say that even that early on, Sonic has never been a "solid" series. Bits and pieces from each game are strong, while other aspects fall short. Sonic 1/CD had probably the best use of your (very limited) abilities, Sonic 2 had the ideal aesthetic (surreal with a touch of modern), and Sonic 3 had the best pacing. Altogether, they're great, but none truly "got it"- which is probably why Mania is one of the best games in the series- it's an amalgamation of all those elements.
Anyway, fast forward to 3D, and you'll immediately see what's wrong. They practically threw away the concept of physics, and put all that on the backburner for what effectively amounts to "lol you go fast and are 2COOL4SKOOL". There was no real direction or "core" to the game, so they feel like hollow experiences with varying degrees of fluff. The increasing focus on story, increased amount of railroading… again, tons of other autistic essays have covered this topic, but it all stems from them moving away from the core element of what made Sonic fucking good.
We could talk endlessly about the other "fluff" elements like the story, aesthetic, sound design, or whatever- but it all comes down to that simple core element of "momentum". Once that was thrown out, the games started to become a lot shittier. Even better was second pic related. The turbo autism community that wasn't invested in the games for what made the games good absolutely ruined almost all potential for fan input affecting the games positively - for every Sonic Robo Blast 2 or Sonic Mania, we'll have to put up with Sonic 06 or Sonic Boom.
What is this a webm for ants?
So, what exactly could be done to Make Sonic Good Againâ„¢? Easy - firstly, stop pretending that Sonic only works in 2D. The fact is that there has been almost no really good Sonic games in 3D - all of them are at best mediocre, and VERY few of them have that core element that the original games were built upon. Even the Sonic Utopia tech demo, while having the right engine and generally capturing the sense of control, doesn't utilize it for anything more than being a playground (although it was literally a tech demo, so I can't give them shit for that yet).
Therefore, we need to look at how to make Sonic work in 3D from the ground up - and there is a good series to look to in that regard. It's fast, it's built on momentum, there's elements in level design that require you to use momentum and ramps for platforming, and even the camera and controls feel great. It's TONY HAWK PRO SKATER SERIES. At least, the first 4 or so games.
So, let's use that as a core. Great, but it still needs that familiar "end goal" element of each level - in which case, Sonic Robo Blast 2 is probably a great example, because it's built on another game that has the player going fast and zooming through levels for an end goal - Doom. They just stretched the setpieces, but the idea is roughly the same. Hell, you could even include elements of keys, switches, and so on- Sonic would work fine with shit like that.
On that note, Sonic games since Adventure have a really bad tendency to include some good elements and features that are never seen again because there's usually some unpolished elements with them. I pointed out that this was the case earlier, too, but it got especially worse since Adventure. Hub worlds would've been fine, but they were too small in Adventure. Treasure Hunt stages from SA2 would've been fine, but they needed to be bigger and more varied. Team and character switch mechanics from Heroes would've been fine, but it needed to not hold your fucking hand and literally tell you WHEN you needed to switch just to get past the railroaded elements. Branching paths would've been fucking awesome if not attached to Ow the Edge and executed so poorly… etc. The list goes on.
Sonic just needs a 3D game in the same vein as Mania, where every good element from existing 3D Sonic games are amalgamated into a wonderful, cohesive game - but they still need to be built around that core element of organic movement and tight controls. Literally all the pieces for a great 3D Sonic game are there, but nobody has put them together - and it's a real shame.
P H Y S I C S
Also, there's a lot of other problems with the various other elements in Sonic games - minor things from aesthetic changes in almost every game, to the "500 friends" problem, and so on. They're usually also a case of "some good, some bad", but the good is never revisited. I could go into further detail on those specifics elements, but I'm pretty sure this is already way too longwinded.
On a side note, Sonic 3D blast had the best music of any game in the series. fite me
You realize the Sonic fandom is the most critical of the recent Sonic games? In a legit fanboy that knows what's wrong with Sonic and not in a shallow game journo way of criticism.
a brief respite from autism to check the following trio of dubs
impressive, very nice
Sorry not the furfag part of the community. But the gameplay focused part, who are most likely modders. Remember the Sonic fanbase is pretty divided.
Sonic team has nothing to lose at this point, they might as well try something like this out.
I think one of the biggest elements often neglected from Sonic games, too, is the sheer amount of space a person can explore when going so fast. Sure, you could put a bunch of blockers and railroad the player to limit that, but that's exactly what makes the modern games so bad. For once, I wish Sega would pull a Todd Howard and tell us we can climb that mountain we see in the distance.
Level design in the classic 2D games really stretched what you could reasonably do in a 2D platforming space - it made use of vertical space by allowing the player to have multiple paths that ultimately lead to the same end, which really helped the feeling of exploration. I think Sonic CD and even the original did this the best, although a lot of credit to Sonic 3&K for some fantastic level design as well.
Porting this over to 3D still wouldn't even be that hard - like I mentioned earlier, you can put in reasonable ways to stretch out the level a bit more. Again, Doom is a good basis - winding pathways dotted with large, open rooms can only go so far if you're going directly from point A to B. Having some switches to flip, keys to get, and so on can really help - Doom did a lot more than just that, though- IE: enemies spawning in after getting a key so you don't feel like you're backtracking through empty areas. I'd recommend looking into that rabbit hole in of itself if you're curious.
You mean
A big problem is Sonic team seem like they want to make the games easier and easier, when 3D Sonic has always been pretty easy since the beginning.
Forces feels extremely retard proof, but kids have always been playing these games and no one has been calling them hard.
So make sonic levels like a doom (or build engine) game? Those levels are designed to be like labyrinths. Not seeing how your hypotheses PHSYICS be applied to to them other than the player moves fast in those games and rocket jumping shit like in the 'quake done quick' speedrun. Which the game devs never intended for players to abuse the physics. Also it requires explosives.
So what you're saying is
FUND IT
SRB2 doesn't count, Doom/build engine are still too limited
This picture is art. It just accurately represents EVERYTHING wrong with games being made nowadays.
Thank you for that
I'll accept your arguments but raise you Sonic World as an example of what Sonic in 3D can be like with more of a focus on fast, snappy responses instead of acceleration and physics-based platforming.
Okay now i'm starting to see it. But i'm seeing some issues:
*Gaining momentum: in quake (yes I know we were talking about doom but quake is the closest equivalent to doom in full 3d) you gained momentum by bunnyhopping or rocket/grenadejump. While bunnyhopping is still feasible but give sonic a rocket launcher seems dumb. Maybe a pseudo surf/skiing mechanic like the surf maps in source or tribes?
*Enemy design: Again with the quake comparison, that game was designed in mind as a shooter, sonic's main way of attacking is just jumping on or rolling into them. Jumping with a homing attack is the typical way in the 3d games. I don't think that would work. I don't know if giving him a range attack is a good idea, but mario odyssey hat attack was an improvement to the spin attack in galaxy which that was an improvement to punch attack in 64.
Naw man, you're taking it too literally. Just include mechanics to get the same result, where you "bounce" - and yeah, the surf/skiing mechanic would work pretty well.
Enemy design would definitely need to be completely redone, though, to accomodate a very intentionally fast moving character. Furi's a good example - it gives you a shitload of ways to dodge and whatnot, so the enemies just pour projectiles out the ass.
I'm also talking about a Sonic-STYLE game at this point, not strictly Sonic. I'm honestly not sure Sega/Sonic Team will ever make a good Sonic game, so maybe we just a spiritual successor that takes all of Sonic's good elements. This gives more flexibility with mechanics, too.
There's something about Sonic World that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I'm not sure why. I loved the shit out of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, but I will readily admit they're not good games at all. I feel like Sonic World is trying to emulate those two games the hardest.
It's very amateurish. The camera in particular is god awful no matter how good you get at the game. And the game is very 'open' and 'free'. There are a lot of levels where you will never play through it properly because of how simple and obvious some skips can be, to the point that the level designer himself takes those unintended skips when he shows the level off.
Another thing SA1 strangely did right was Sonic's spin dash. For some reason, it doesn't even control the same way in SA2 (And then Heroes and Shadow replaced it with the God awful "Boost").
CHECKED
Yeah, which was nice. Turning felt pretty tight, too- you couldn't just turn on a dime or reverse your momentum instantly. Airtime still felt a little too floaty, though.
Heroes had the Rocket Accel and saved the boost for the Special Stage. Shadow had the spindash back but it was shit.
Dude SRB2 has slopes now and IIRC real loops
You literally can't because the vast amount of things sega will not let go with the base design.
Sega will actively make a good idea done awful to justify never having to do the good idea again and this is the main point for it. In unleashed they finally started to map inputs onto other buttons but at the same time did it in the worst way possible and didn't offer custom controls options. It was just shit like homing attack the only natural move to share a button for some reason doesn't which throws people off.
They take the complaints about the buttons and think "Guess everything should only be on 3 buttons because that was like the Megadrive lol"
Like Mario day 1 of moving to 3D knew this meant changing the controls to accommodate it using all the inputs on the controller it could to making a move set and controls which felt nice for the space. But Sonic since Adventure 1 has always limited it's button use and it's always come off to awful decision choices like shit with bounce and Light Speed Dash being on the same button but having light speed dash used for situations over bottomless pits.
Who ever thinks about having multiple combat situations in their game when the main characters only has one attack to their same needs to be smacked in the back of the head. Think about all sonic games with combat in them and think of the way you beat enemies as sonic? That's right you spam the homing attack and in other games where they try to make alternatives like in Shadow and Heroes their only way of stopping you is by adding health bars to rail road you into those other and usually objectively better options.
But enough about over decade old games.
When you play as sonic in his levels there are multiple times where you're thrust into fights but they're all the same shit, there's no multiple options, you just mash homing attack and win with no difference from level one to end game, do you think this is in any way fun design? Even in Sonic and the Black Knight they put in a move that works like the homing attack, one shots most enemies and makes you super fast so even when they make a combo gimmick game nothing changes and in boom they just add a kick which amounts to homing attack + kick.
This will never leave the series because they're so used to thinking this is something to incorporate into their design.
I can hear the response right now, m-m-m-muh colours, no you little shit you're wrong and I'll get to it now.
When you think unleashed how many styles it has? 2 with sonic and werehog? No there's 3, Werehog, sonic when he's in a 3D space and a different one for when he's in a 2D space, Sega is so reliant on autists buying their games for nostalgia reasons even when they make a 3D game they feel the need to incorporate 2D into it even when they make up a in universe reason to already shoe horn in Classic Sonic twice now.
When modern Sonic moves to 2D it does nothing for the player but forces them to play an awful 2D segment where they're not as nicely controlling as 2 Decade old games and have nothing challenging in them past getting past the stiff as fuck controlling feeling, Sega will never stop this god awful practice either because they know retards actually eat this shit up.
I could go over more on making set pieced design over making an actual platforming level, the habit they've made of the same bosses over and over to the point the first boss of unleashed has now made it's way into being the final boss of the last 3 main sonic games, over reliance on imagery they know people like to sell a game "WOW LOOK AT ALL THESE GREEN HILLS" But it's all for nothing, sega will never learn from their shit designing ways, they know some retards will eat and defend it as can be seen by the sonic defence forces with their last god awful piece of shit game.
I fucking want sega to die so all of the other and better franchises with potential can't be tainted by them and move on to development teams that will try their damn hardest to fresh new stuff with them.
To be fair those enemies are so easy they may as well have not been there.
thanks for showing me about how incomplete forces is. I find it interesting on a youtube comment that the Sunset Heights, Park Avenue and Red Gate Bridge are all connected.
Also, is that just me sucking so bad or "full throttle" levels where you always move forward are borderline unplayable? Pathing screws up wayy too much, expecially considering how special stages are fine despite having same "full throttle" gimmick.
Sound like Jazz Jackrabbit to me.
What's wrong with nu-sonic is that they're trying to build a physics engine around a story rather than build a story around the physics engine. Sonic Team needs to spend more time on making a Sonic game feel fun and less time making a game sound fun.
3D blast Saturn or Genesis?
The physics comment really hit the nail on the head. I hadn't played sonic game since SA2, and recently I started playing colors since I was told it was decent. However it feels way too much on the rails so far. Thinking back to the 2d games some of my favorite parts are the physics gimmicks that would show up in each level with something different. I understand gotta go fast is Sonic's character trait, but it wasn't what made the original games so enjoyable.
We want games as they were done in the Mega Drive days. The classic trilogy. And ONLY that, over and over again, with minor innovations in the stage layouts and gameplay.
Whenever a game is not like that, it is shit.
And if it has any DRM or microtransactions, it is shit.
yeah but jazz jackrabbit is shit
I wish I knew how to replicate that shading technique.
It's just dithering. Your image editor can do it automatically.
My image editor is paint.NET. Also exactly what kind of dithering is it?
Just change to 16 colors.
These are some good posts user. I felt that Mania was getting it right again but failed in the level pacing that Sonic 3 had. It also sucks they didn't go all out and added the Super Emeralds as well, just for the fuck of it.
Bam, Franchise saved. at least it would sell to millions of furfags, and considering how much expendable income they have you can probably make a fortune off mercahndising too.
I'm surprised they never made a Knuckles/Rouge spin-off game with the treasure hunting gameplay.
Those tits and ass better jiggle too.
Do they have points?
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Not really. While the first guy is right that Generations has a problem of almost outright forbidding backtracking and exploration, Forces barely improves on that. The second guy started out with a point, and then lost it. He's right in that 3D Sonic isn't ever going to be exactly like 2D Sonic, and the people who expect it to be such are retards. However, he completely missed the fact that the most important part of Sonic, right behind the momentum physics, is the level design. In that facet, Mania was a huge step forward, because it understood what made Sonic levels good and expanded on that. Even the most classic style of the Advance games had more basic, streamlined levels compared to the Genesis titles.
Yeah, some were upset over Mania's lack of air tricks or melee attacks from the Advance games, but i don't think they added that much. Would have been nice to see what they could have done with a character like Amy or any of the Chaotix playable by Pagoda West and StealthTax.
Nice dubs.
But I think you should expand both images in the post since it's helps get his point across. But keep the tomorrow theme since that makes it clear the second pic is a screen cap and not part of the post itself.
The only GOOD son game are the megadrive ones and mania, the rest is Teletubbies-tier garbage for furfags.
*sonic games
heh nice bait
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Good thing shit's fake, because if it wasn't Adventure fans would lose their shit. Especially if there's still no Chao Garden. Wouldn't even be surprised if they switch to 2D camera angles in certain parts as an extra "fuck you".
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admitted it you want this
Stopped reading there. The least these cuckchan larpers can do is fact check themselves.
Why are they called larpers when there's no live action involved?
Because there's a living, breathing faggot behind that post.
Trying to imagine an open world sonic game where you can go fast like a Tribes games.
Why would you want to imagine something so shitty?
every idea that is connected to Sonic is shit.
I think what you're talking about is something similar to what we can see in source game speedruns - where a player accelerates off a physics bug so much that they jump across the whole map. While the game doesn't need to be that extreme, this is what it should be in essence. Either you go carefully and deliberately follow the half-pipes and 3D loops, or you do some risky accelerated move (at the risk of fucking up and dying) and do a crazy jump that is a massive shortcut.
Video very much related, this open area in HL2 shows the impressiveness of momentum-based speedrunning the best.
arch.b4k.co
Heroes and Unleashed had great aesthetics and atmosphere but to go as far as excusing the werehog, controls/physics, and level design for it? Fuck no. Could be just pure shitposters but given it's cuckchan, they're retards either way.
i attempted replaying unleashed and the only thing that actually put me off from contining wasnt the werehog or anything of the sort but the fucking framerate
fucking flag
I've seen so many Sonic threads and I'm surprised that no-one has ever posted this video.
hooktube.com
They should make it a rougelike!
It's a shitty IP that should be forgotten rather than fixed.
I like you Carlos, I'll deport you last.
they tried to make a RPG like sister sonic and sonic chronicles and they failed spectacularly, I don't think they would try again.
What the fuck
BioWare hasn't made a decent game after knights of the old republic.
fix'd
Nice
Because calling them 'that kid' (you know the one, the one who always bullshited about game secrets or game news who swore it was the truth because his dad works at nintendo) doesn't have the same ring to it.
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Bump.
Don't forget about the medals if you're doing a full playthrough,
I never really understood why so many people have problems with the medals. My first time through, I only lacked medals for the very last day stage, and I was still pretty close to having enough. Do people just rush through the game without exploring anything? I can see going fast on the day stages, but the hubs and night stages are made for you to wander around, finding collectibles.
Literal autism.
Well first off, I hear sonic is a very hard game. Their was this one game reviewer who died 12 times at Oil Ocean! There should be an easy mode. Sonic fans should stop being such elitist.
THis explains so much
you realize Autism is Generally speaking a made up disorder to pathologics a-typical male characteristics most common among nerdy anti-social intellectuals. Its an excuse to place potential rocket engines on prescription drugs in order to curb their academic success and thereby make a more equal society. Granting their are genuine cases most the time its just an excuse for poor socialization thanks to the decline of the nuclear family.
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Ok.
Sonic Team needs to rebrand to Puyo Team since that's what they're best at right now, Additionally this spic managed to make Sonic Adventure 3 with nothing but Unity, tortilla chips and 150 USD a month, Sonic Team needs to play new games and make original games in order to get their mojo back.
DON'T MAKE ME SUCK YOUR DICK
keep trying one day you might get the hang of it.
case and point: cuckchan's obsession with amerrimutt
So the homing attack is generally awful in 2D, but it might be salvageable. The second Shovel Knight dlc is pretty much designed around it, and I think it actually did a good job. If you're close enough to do it you do a diagonal dash into the target, so if you're below them you launch up and if you're above you dive down. Destroying a target with it also causes you to dash through it. The game manages to create some neat platforming moments with it.
Of course the physics are radically different but it should be able to work somehow. The key is putting some rule in it and having the player maintain momentum through it. Really should just having it act like the fire barrier's jump attack.
Shadow the hedgehog likes the *monogatari series?
Bake, to be precise. The main girl in it a shit, though.
bump
I think the last good sonic game was sonic adventure 2, when shadow got introduced?
I was so young when I played that game on my gamecube.
Maybe. I think they put in a lot of effort into sonic 06, it turned out be pretty bad and not profitable for a large project and gave up on the franchise.
Show boypussy
Aren't they supposed to be "technically" adults since they're animals and whatnot? They're not bad drawings, but I'm not a fan, I've never really liked the Sonic artstyle to begin with.
Also another problem is that every game they try to introduce some gimmick. I played adventure 1 & 2 on gamecube and in 1 from what I remember the tails / sonic levels where the most fun. But then you have a gimmick character like Big where you're catching fish. That's not what I play a sonic game for. Neither were the tails / eggman levels in adventure 2 where you just slowly went through a level on a machine (though it was fun, it isn't really something out of a sonic game). The sonic + shadow levels had the best design and were most fun.
Then with sonic heroes they made this 'team' gimmick. With shadow the hedgehog they made guns an important part of the gameplay (in a sonic game lol) and it was wonky and didn't work out very well I would say. Also had some other flaws. Sonic 06, nothing could salvage that game and then they made sonic a werewolf that would smash things.
It conflicts with people saying that the werehog stages aren't short. They're usually around 10 minutes give or take a few only after upgrading and medal collecting in them without that exp almost doubles the length or else you have to play them again if you skip the medals.
How did you like the way Advance 2,3, and Megamix handled the homing attack?
Change his color. That shade of blue appeals greatly to people on the autistic spectrum. Look it up.
Holy shit, no wonder everyone I met from there is a fucking insufferable wacko.
meant for
Something definitely went down during the development of Sonic '06 because what was originally shown and revealed to have been done was nothing like the final product that came out. In a way, it's similar to what happened with Bioshock Infinite.
what I'd like to know is why they have to introduce a new gimmick every game.
I never used the homing attack in the 2D games until 4 and Generations (3DS), largely because I never knew it existed.
some silly crap from the sonic fandom, don't bother asking questions about it.
Sonic Team had a division after Sonic Adventure 1 for the Dreamcast, one studio would be based in San Francisco with Takashi Iizuka and would make games like SA2, Heroes, Shadow, Rivals series and NiGHTS Journey of Dreams, whilst the rest of the team back in Japan would be responsible for titles like Samba De Amigo, Chu Chu Rocket, Billy Hatcher, the PSO series and others, before being tasked to create the big anniversary game. Yuji Naka had long since served in an executive role, missed doing the programming work himself and not being content to oversee Sonic content for the rest of his life like Miyamoto does with Mario, bounced and took Sonic Team staff members with him to form his own company Prope in during 06 in its early phase. Now left with a divided crew, the 06 developers would find themselves left short of manpower yet again when Nintendo unveiled the Wii and was not at all what they had expected for a 7th gen console. Porting the game to underpowered hardware was out of the question, but Sega would nonetheless press on Sonic Team to make a Sonic game specifically for it. The game's director, Yojiro Ogawa, was reassigned to make the Hyper Sonic Wildfire game for the Wii instead which is now known as Sonic and the Secret Rings with Shun Nakamura (Billy Hatcher and Samba de Amigo director) taking his place in the middle of 06's development. All of this combined with Sonic Team's difficulty with working on the then next-gen hardware was compounded with the infamous holiday deadline, putting an insane amount of stress on them trying to even get the game to run period and was why the PS3 version was delayed to early 2007.
Current series' head Iizuka eventually said that since he was not with the japanese division that made 06 and so was able to see the game through the fans' eyes when playing it. Attributing a lack of time and a lock of a solid, unified vision for Sonic being the reasons behind the franchise's poor quality output pre-Colors, he aimed to avoid repeating those mistakes in the future. The desire to always work on something new, to "surprise" fans, and attract a new audience were all reasons given by him behind the gimmicks in the later Sonic games, such as the gameplay shift between Generations and Lost World or the lack of motivation to make a direct numbered sequel to Adventure 2.
kill most of its fanbase.
heh, tell me about it glad sally not in the IDW comic
bump.
gay
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No, you're absolutely right, shit like Worst Cave is literally unbeatable.
It really is a shame since there are so many cool under developed elements in 06 that could be great if they were fleshed out more.
Sonic is one of the most iconic and popular video game character ever. What new audience are they expecting to get? and if they want to make a more gimmick game there is a solution for that, it's called a spin off like Sonic Riders though Sonic Riders story mode feels more like a main line game then what's been coming out lately.
go away greeny
reported for porn dump :^)
reported for wasting mods time
reported for hurting cakeboy's feefees
reported for reporting
reported for announcing reports
abusing the sage eh?
ment for >>14246851
shit taste
cream is best girl anyway
cream the rabbit?
I wanna cream you
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Would you, babby cream?
Yes, daddy
So, Yuji avoided the San Francisco guys, and saw were the series and company were going? He did nothing wrong then.
And the Sanfran studio being responsible for the worst games of the company, while the japanese one made the best? The world follows it's natural path as always.
As for Iizuka wanting gimmicks and a (((new audience))) speaks for itself: avoid anything that he touches.
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bump
guess it hit the limit
I think it's that there are 2 sonic threads so one was bumb locked.
limit is 300 replies btw
Sonic is dead.
and it only goes to the Holla Forums thread
I decided to add his last post too. (Mine is also wider so the screencap he posted is a bit clearer if anyone cares about that.)
Reminder Mark sent it to the guy who answers the official Mario emails.
nice, can you also add these too?
Thanks, user.
Sega telling its idiot fanbase to fuck off would be an excellent start.