Traditionalist Degenerates: Notes Toward a Žižekian Analysis of Holla Forums

A recent article on Jacobin (jacobinmag.com/2017/02/paleocons-for-porn/)was published attempting to articulate a critique of what they perceive as the contradictions of the American new right: In one hand theirs is a culture that thrives in “porn and promiscuity”, in the other it promises a return to “traditional marriage.” Jacobin claims this is a contradiction that cannot hold; De Sade versus Burke. The purpose of this essay is to show how, far from being a contradiction that will break the alt-right apart, it is the dialectical relation between those two poles that provides insight into the psychic universe of the average 4channer, his symbolic universe is precisely the space occupied between those two opposites. (part 1/?)

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The image we have of the average 4channer as a Cheeto ingesting, Mountain Dew addicted, fedora tipping basement dweller is an image user himself does little to dispel this prejudice but in the contrary, it is the subject of ironic celebration. To understand this we have to analyze the form American heterosexual white males have been undermined in contemporary neoliberal identity politics, hegemonic liberalism tells us time and time again this demographic is “toxic.” But just as we don't judge a man by what he thinks of himself, we do not judge a man by what society tells him he is either, rather is his response to the later that really defines the man. user knows within the symbolic universe of today's hegemonic left he's the bad guy, so he responds by truly becoming a bad guy. But as far as bad men goes he's rather tame, useless even, and that is because he lacks the political and economic power the left insists he has. He is, after all, a neet, how can a neet be the enforcer of patriarchal, capitalist hegemony? Is this very lack of power others insists he has that feeds his paranoia, a paranoia that comes to be embodied in the fantasy of being “cucked.”

It is his obsession with the “cuck” that provides the most insight into the character of user. He knows he has been robbed of a certain enjoyment that belonged to him by inheritance as a white male, but he doesn't know what this enjoyment might be nor who took it, not until the white supremacist comes along and informs him: this enjoyment that belonged to him, which he didn't even knew he had until it went missing, was a conservative, traditional family with a white, submissive wife, and who took it was the Jew, the Mexican, the Muslim.

But it is guilt, above all, that moves user towards conservative politics. The old Marx's quote of: “to hunt in the morning, to fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner” takes a grotesque, surreal realization in the life of the neet user: To watch MLP in the morning, play Overwatch in the evening, shitpost after dinner, and masturbate in the night. And is his masturbation habits that above all shape his politics: as far as his internet life is concerned, user is pansexual, anything can in any moment become “fap worthy.” Is this tension between what user finds arousing, his subconscious urges coming to the fore, and the kind of sexual life user was subjectivized and for by the ideological state apparatuses of conservative America (a monogamic, heterosexual family) that produces the authoritarian personality receptive to contemporary fascism. user feels guilty of fapping to feminine dicks, he's straight goddammit! If he is straight, but moved by a force he perceives as almost external to himself to partake in increasingly “degenerate” acts of libertinism (all within the safety of cyberspace, of course) then it cannot be but because he was robbed of the life he perceives as “normal” that of, to repeat myself, the traditional American family. And he couldn't have been robbed by no other forces but the ones he perceives as hegemonic in today's society: feminism, liberalism, “cultural Marxism”, multiculturalism. And the way out cannot be but with the help of a big other, an authoritarian superego master that tells him what must be done, the God Emperor who will simultaneously order him to stop being degenerate and also fight the forces turning him into a degenerate. Thus, contrary to what Jacobin maintains, Burke and De Sade can be said to be part of a coherent whole: Burke is the superego to De Sade's id. (part 2/?)

Two overdetermining movements then comes to shape the 4channer as a political subject: on one hand the increasingly extreme acts of sexual hedonism come to feel more and more tiresome and jarring, they provide no satisfaction anymore, and they provoke feelings of guilt and shame (even if these feelings are repressed and hidden, subconsciously he is degraded, even if for the sake of his well being in the public space of imageboards he maintains an image of individualistic, nihilist hedonism), then there's that other possible, alternate lifestyle, the one he cannot have, but that more and more comes to be felt as the authentic sane one: being the Family Man, being at once provided with a space within the social imaginary (father, provider) and with an enjoyment (a sexual partner who is obedient to all his whims).

The irony here is lost for the Holla Forumsack: what he asks for, namely a place to occupy, both in the contemporary relations of production and in the social symbolic order, these are the same things missing for other marginalized communities (blacks, the LGBT community and so on) today to have a job and being a part of society is more and more, a muh privilege. And how user reacts is, to put it short, to throw a tantrum, to engage in “negative solidarity” against these same communities, he refuses to see how their struggle is his struggle, how to ensure that he has a future, he must fight the late capitalist mode of production that more and more produce surplus populations, user being, as much as he refutes to admit it, part of these same surplus populations. The left utterly failed at showing this to user, but on the contrary antagonized him as being “toxic.” The identity politics obsessed left became accomplice to the Richard Spencers of the world, the alt-right is as much a creation of the liberal left as it is of the Nazis. The way out then, cannot be but to continue showing to user, time and time again, how his material interests are the same as those of the black, the Muslim, the Mexican, the feminist… instead of siding with the hegemonic powers of capital, who will betray him at the first opportunity.

(part 3/3)

But Burke wasn't even ideological at all! His entire position is just "change things more slowly in case you mess things up." Pick another conservative political philosopher to replace him.

I picked Burke in order to refute Jacobin since that's who they used, who do you propose then?

nod bad

Since you just need a name to drop in to represent the pole of perceived virtue, you could use Evola or Cato the Younger or something.

Really made me ponder. I was a former Holla Forumsack though and I'm not white. And I'm not the only one. How do you account for that?

Because its fun and exciting.

I'm white and not OP either so I don't know, but my guess? You saw through political correctness and turned against hegemonic liberalism without really being aware why that it was a veil for capitalist exploitation. It was easier to believe that 12 million or so Jews are oppressing the world then 1 billion whites since many of them have no power and the means of production are in a very small number of hands.

There's the whole "Nat Soc is for all races" meme too.

White supremacists have conditioned you into believing that being white is the norm and equals success, when in actuality being Asian would be much more of a qualifier for that.

Hahahaha

Not that user, but

Possibly. I did see white as being the norm, and I blamed a lot of my problems including my shit job on not being white. Not anymore though

Hey OP. I think this is a false premise to start with. The author of that post was criticizing and showing the contradiction between two groups of conservatives/right-wingers. You've internalized that contradiction within one person.

Which one? Israel is one of the few countries in the world trying to live the "Nat Soc is for all races" meme

And what if I distrust both?

I hate the rich but equally I don't trust feminists, Jews or other groups that hold no relevance to me. I don't trust the nepotism of other ethnic groups. I view all religion as utter cancer.

Frankly I don't know where I fit in politically. Possibly Asserism but I don't like aggressive nationalism or strict gender roles either. So I'm pretty much lost. I don't see any ideology that will help me.

I'm not American btw.

you know there's a difference between analysis and fanfic, *sniff*?

Holla Forums is the kid that sits in a dark room jerking off all day roleplaying a futanari succubus with a sex dungeon in Skyrim, but at the same time will rant about gay marriage, trans rights, and at the drop of a hat call people degenerates. Kind of like chaste catholic school girls, are always the most freaky.

...

That was exactly my purpose. I tried to retrace the dialectical movement by which the Holla Forums user turns into the Holla Forums user, but keeping or subsuming the "degeneracy" of Holla Forums


Do what I did I guess, make a choice and then make a "Pascal wager" so to speak, replacing god with the communist utopia, as in, live your life as if communism is possible. Groups of people will always be shit since statistically most people are shit, but there's not much you can do about it, except staying loyal to your ideals.

That is not what communism is about.

lol at id/pol/ tho

have you tried existential nihilism?

OP here, since I am going to sleep and there's no knowing how long will the thread be up, I decided to upload the text of my essay here: justpaste.it/13un7

Uh, this is where you're wrong, and it kinda break your analysis. That particular image was adopted in response to the traditional view of manhood that was dominant in the early 2000s, which the nerds couldn't and wouldn't fulfill.

You're onto something there, but you won't have a convincing argument until you stop mixing up user culture and Holla Forums-influenced culture of the so-called "alt-right". The two are only distantly and circumstantially related.

But there really are two distinct groups here (one of which isn't even conservative) - the Holla Forums user and the /a/co/jp/v/ user.

They're currently in an uneasy alliance against a common enemy - the Holla Forums user seeks freedom of expression that the chans give them and, at most, utilizes its culture as a tool, the Holla Forumsv/ user seeks allies against cultural imperialism of the idpol liberals (/a/jp/ anons' culture is derivative of Japan and therefore safe). That alliance will break as soon as their enemy is defeated and/or Holla Forums anons reach enough power to act on their own authoritarian tendencies.

That's not how they see it. From their perspective communism means putting the white man in his place.

I'm already depressed, that sounds grim even for me

I guess. But my ideals are all over the place.

you never know! it might be just the thing

I find it strange that outsiders view 4chan as some sort of lifestyle. It's a site full of fucking 14 year olds shit posting.

the idea that people in a certain class deserve to be there even if its hereditary is pretty ideological fam

THE IDEOLOGICAL SUPERMARKET, LIKE ANY SUPERMARKET, IS FIT ONLY FOR LOOTING

Just chose the ideas that make sense to you, and fight the political battles that benefit you the most. Fight against capital and resist against the very idea of "cultural wars" on the grounds that both sides want to dominate only by different principles.

lmao

4ch has been absolutely destroyed by SEETHING normalfags.

try creative nihlism instead, you'll get better results.

maybe i'll try that

thanks yugoanon

Have you heard of this American phenomenon known as Holla Forums? I tell you it is precisely the premiere spectacle of Americannn politics. On the surface it is about ray-cism, but I believe dis is much too simple. I see under the cuck memes and the racism a deep insecurity about control. Control economically and control culturally. As the American empire crumbles and the Fukuyamist paradigm recedes we see here the children of this dream clinging onto the last scraps of ideology available to reassure themselves.

*sniff*

I find this self delusion is common. Not just in America but every warez. "Bohr horseshoe story here."Sho on and sho on.

Here I am much more cynical, what pol wants is racism wit out de hatred. To achieve dis they hide behind dere memez and dere ironic humore. Under this additional surface though we see the glorious sanctified stupidity of the act. The ritualized ackgggnoledgemend that what we have here is a failure to imagine something beyond the current circumstances. In de absence of a leftist vision, they re imagine romanticist fascism.

*sniff*

Arnold Schwarzenegger, from about the mid-90s onward, has occasionally acknowledged that his Austrian accent is now an affectation he consciously maintains, having lived in the US too long for it to remain natural.

How many of the the 'zec's nervous tics do you think are genuine?

will there ever be some common ground that doesn't result in one side trying to destroy and engulf the other?

like finger painting and the joys of heavy alcohol consumption

What newfags dont understand is that the things pol is doing wasn't invented by pol.
It was invented by Holla Forums
Doing it for the lulz.
In this age of hyper identity politics, user is like a kid in a candy store.
Pol is a faceless agent of chaos fighting against an all encompassing liberal identity politics that has seeped into every nook and cranny of the universe.
why are they doing it?
Because they can.
They believe in nothing, its pure nihilism, they are doing it because it make you mad.
U mad?
Pol is the rat in the kings throne room.
They carry the torch of Holla Forums.

This was the case in 2012. Times have changed, Holla Forums is cucked now.

well meme'd, but tbh most of trump's support was a byproduct of the anti-muslim propaganda wave that started in ~2012 presumably to make people indifferent to our regime change operation in syria (remember until kerry's faux-pas obama was planning to officially bomb syrian troops).
the rest of trump supporters were people who didn't really want ww3 to start and those who were angry about how Democrats united against Sanders and cut him off with barely legal tricks.

TBH, this largely petered out (in the US, where they're a meme-tier ultraminority, as opposed to overseas, where they're essentially the spics of Europe along with Hindus) halfway through the Dubya years.

A better suspect would be the Tea Party (at least the actual grassroots part that sorta' sprouted as the Kochs lost total control over their little astroturf project) and Occupy movements following the recession that ran aground under Obama's 1st term, as well as lingering remnants of the (primarily but not totally leftist) alter/anti-globalization movement that protested WTO meetings throughout the '90s & '00s, and of course the anti-war sentiment that even spread to encompass many Republicans by the end of Dubya's 2nd term.

Media wonks had largely written off these movements and how big they were, but the conditions that motivated them had only grown more widespread.

When Trump and Sanders openly, loudly decried neoliberalism, military adventurism, (very quietly in Sanders' case) mass immigration, and offshoring, all statements NO MAJOR BURGERSTANI POLITICIAN HAS DARED TO UTTER SINCE THE 1970S, it was like a flood of fresh air over the smoldering coals of an old fire. Both candidates were complete flukes, both candidates happening in the same election (especially one with such a horrifically depressing status quo lineup as Clinton 2.0 vs. Bush 3.0) was a jackpot fluke that allowed the bipartisan groundswell of populist rage, building up from one failed "phenomenon" after another over the last two administrations, to wash over the political landscape like drought dry forest.

irony inevitably turns sincere on such a global scale

no, there can only be a semblance of balance through resistance.

For me, I was there because it was funny.

It became less so over time, felt like more and more people started to mean all the nonsense they spouted. Guess I fell for the "Holla Forums is satire" meme.

It was satire. Back when they bullied Ben Garrison, invented dozens of increasingly more elaborately absurd pills, portrayed every life commonality as a covert Jewish influence and spammed interracial cuckold porn to piss off actual racists.

Then elections came and with them came the normies. Now Holla Forums is the most popular board on 4chan and completely sincere (save, of course, regular pre-ironic trolling). It can't and won't last, the radical chaos of anonymous culture will not let it stand.

I think it comes from how fast he speaks, I notice when I talk fast in a foreign language my voice kind of hits it's limits and words lose their hard edges.

Welcome home, brother.

...

I think most, because he is an actual neurotic person.

Well, you also have subversion of the other side as an aternative to physical removal, i.e what the current system is doing.

any suggestions on how to obtain this semblance? David Foster Wallace once said that the only way to revolt in post 9/11 America wouldn't necessarily be a physical violent revolution, but a revolution involving the capitalistic goods and services the run the nation

it just seems like both sides are attempting to subvert the other to an insufferable degree.

...

It's Unconscious not subconscious, nice try at trying to be Zizekian but perhaps you should read more psychoanalysis

What a fuckin' suprise.

yeah, I actually got some pretty similar vibes out of Bordiga's on the democratic principle and Burker's Reflections on the Revolution in France.

This. This is exactly my sentiments.

As for OP, nationalism =/= Christfag conservatism. In fact, there is often a conflict between God and Nation. In the 19th century, nationalists were often left-wingers such as in 1848 and looked back to classical Rome and Greece or traditional pagan traditions as opposed to Christianity. 20th century ultranationalists despised Christianity for being foreign to Western civilization and Jewish. In a way, I agree with both of these statements. Steve Bannon, Milo, Richard Spencer, and Trump have all destroyed the Christfag wing of the Republican party in the public mind.

The real contradiction that is going to explode is between the economic liberalism inherited from the christfag/lolbert/neocon Right and worker-oriented protectionism and populism inherent in nationalism. Hopefully, this would result in a nationalism that stands to the left, condemning the Christfags to the dustbin of history. The lolberts naturally would abandon their principles or join up with the liberals, who in turn would form the new right-wing of elitist neoliberalism against the populist nationalism. In a way, it would be a great political reversal. Left becomes right, right becomes left.

And with this, the inherently leftist (in the French Revolutionary) tendencies of Western Civilization such as republicanism, citizenship, producerism, class struggle, national/popular sovereignty, and democratic populism can be reconciled or even enhanced by this wave of nationalism. And with this, the degenerate elements of Western civilization, both from the Orient and from within, such as multiculturalism, globalism, capitalism, Christianity, liberalism, free trade, and elitism will be eliminated. The "constitutional monarchies" and "representative democracies" shall give way to direct democratic republics and confederations. The workers shall seize the industries and build new industries where there are none. The metic hordes of scabs and lumpens will be expelled or annihilated. The capitalist elites and their managerial-professional lackeys shall be hung from the noose. A new, virtuous citizenry shall be forged from the flames of revolution and general strike. The West shall rise from its malaise, and this West of confederal nations shall be the shining city on the hill against the autocratic Orient and the barbaric savages of the global south.

There is no feminist that has anything in common to me aside from the dead ones.
Because the dead ones are no longer helping to spread feminism.

christ that was autistic

but you're not the first person I've seen predict that the two major political forces in the west in the near future are going to be protectionist populist nationalism v.s. cosmopolital finance liberalism

Huge surprise, it's yet another episode of the Gadsen attention whore cloaking his reactionary, racist nonsense in Marxist terminology.


How the fuck is producerism "inherently leftist" in any shape or form?


Are you LARPing as a 19th-century Klansman or is this the way you usually write on the Internet? You're not even trying to hide the fact that you're essentially a Holla Forums renegade at this point.


The so-called hardhat hawks (a minority among union workers) were braindead goons propped up by bourgeois unions to voice public support for the government's murderous imperialist policies. But I'm sure you can tell me how Kissinger bombing the shit out of civilians is "actually the true will of the people and therefore leftist" and that "only hippies care about gooks anyway".

de_stroyed

that fuckin gif tho