This felt more like an adventure game then it did an RPG. The roleplaying elements or chance for personality-insertion basically didn't exist. It shocked me to learn how many faction/guild & daedric quests boiled down to a simple "go get me that" or "go kill this" despite the same complaints weighing on people's judgement for Skyrim, lacking any sense of narrative or characterization. even the post-game tribunal was more akin to a dungeon crawler then it was a story not allowing me to shake almalexia down for answers despite her given importance. I can't recall any quests that broke this monotonous grind aside from Dagoth Ur and his otherwise excellent if short-lived characterization which is to be expected as the Sixth House's fall is itself that very main quest. Even the tribunal was fairly dull and the dialouge options wore out quick without any allowance for branching paths or personality-insertion. There was many things lacking in backstory and explaination that wasn't just a sense of "keeping it ambigious" as it was intentionally lazy-writing.
It baffles me how anyone can put this as an RPG on the same level as Arcanum, Fallout, Planescape:Torment, Bloodlines. This feels more like an adventure game with some cultural influence then it does a "RPG of all time".
Was anyone else disappointed?
Sure thing, next you'll say it's a walking simulator
For further elaboration; Holla Forums says morrowind not having fast-travel is a point for it but I can't recall how many quests it un-naturally stretched out lacking a fast travel system going through a world mostly of ruins and ash with little to do other then fight cliff-racers inbetween points of destination even using stilt walkers. Outside of maybe or 1 or 2 given main-quest characters how many Morrowind NPCs to you remember being a great example of a well-written character with given depth? The answer is none really.
Bethesda even before Oblivion was never known for their deep writing or roleplaying elements.
Name one Bethesda game, post-Daggerfall, that doesn't require you you walk through a whole lot of nothing before you can fast travel to it. At least Morrowind let you jump to certain waypoints without needing to first discover them.
And, compared with those isometric RPGs you mention, Morrowind winds without contest in terms of world-building and things to do outside the story. At the time, there had not been another RPG since the 90's that gave you close to 100 hours of content without touching the story. Planescape and Fallout are great for roleplaying in terms of choices in a linear main quest. But in terms of being able to roleplay personality and career you want, Morrowind wins for the sheer choice it gives you outside the main quest.
the world is amazing, but I would have liked to see a better game attached to it. I always lose interest about 3-4 hours into a new game because it's just running around, being in-your-face samey
I see you've never roleplayed as a Pilgrim and did the entire Pilgrimage of the Seven Graces
I played Morrowind when it came out, I still have the nice folding cardboard box complete with map and all that.
That said, yeah. It's astonishing to me that even today you'll find people who disagree that Oblivion or Skyrim improved upon *anything* Morrowind built.
Just off the top of my head:
My impression is that Morrowind appeals to people who like to "pen and paper" CRPGs, in the sense they make stuff up in their head as they go along, so they tend to overlook flaws like this. While I'm a fan of pen and paper RPGs, I can't really adopt that mode of thinking to a game to the point I completely ignore its flaws.
That said, I feel all TES games suffer from the same flaws, which tend to be NPCs you don't really empathize with a great deal (compare TES NPCs to NPCs from the likes of Baldur's Gate 2), main quests that don't really get the player invested either and so on.
Anyone who doesn't like Morrowind should be banned from the board. Just sayin'.
You can fast travel to every city in Oblivion from the moment you leave the sewers. In Skyrim they delayed this until you get to Whiterun and have enough money to pay for the carriage.
The linear "experiences" of Skyrim and Oblivion were a step down from Morrowind's guild quests. A huge step down that cut back on replayability. The swashbuckling simulator that is Oblivion's and Skyrims abhorrent combat system, coupled with the speechcraft and lockpicking mini-games obliterated what actual RPG elements were left in the series after Morrowind took that first big nosedive into action-RPG realm. Then there is just the sheer volume of side-quests, skills, spells, and general detail in world design that was trimmed down for Oblivion, then again in Skyrim. At least OP made some reasonable complaints and compared Morrowind with some decent RPGs. But you, user, are a stupid faggot with shit taste.
In what regard? Did you actually enjoy being sent out to do fetch quests even when you were supposedly the equivalent of a senior manager within the guild? Moreover, you talk about RPG aspects, but you're given even less choice with regards to resolving questlines in Morrowind than you are in Skyrim and Oblivion.
The lockpicking game is fine. It gamifies something that's supposed to be gamified.
It was trimmed down because the vast majority of it was junk and Oblivion and Skyrim necessitated things like voiced dialogue and some basic level of QA. People laugh at Skyrim's canned dialogue in response to you being say, a guild leader or something like that, but they also forget that virtually not a single NPC in the entire game, even those within the respective guids, actually reacted to anything you did either in their organizations or in the game world at large.
This is what I mean by saying that people like you, who adopt pen and paper mode of thinking and apply it to games like Morrowind, just end up papering over the cracks: "Heh, nobody actually acknowledges I'm the leader of the fighters guild, but in my head they do." - It's Ullililia tier shit, you may as well call MS Notepad the greatest game ever made by those standards.
Furthermore, do you have _any_ idea just how ridiculously buggy Morrowind was at launch? It made Oblivion at launch look like a polished gem.
Not to mention even the content that wasn't bugged just wasn't very good.
I'm sorry you were diagnosed with autism and literally have no friends, but that's no reason to get hostile with me. You didn't even address any of my main points. You just saw someone praise Oblivion and Skyrim (even though it was praise with a caveat - the main quests for both are garbage compared to truly stellar RPGs like KOTOR 2) and reflexively whirred up your asperger's syndrome.
Fucking fag.
You went full retard too quickly.
I haven't really played much Morrowind but I never understood why people were so mad at Skyrim.
I've played Arena, Daggerfall and Oblivion and they all have massive focus on Dungeon Crawling with a side of RPG mechanics.
Isn't the "radiant quests" just an evolution of the random dungeons/spawns that were in daggerfall?
I'm not a huge fan of Skyrim but the basic concept they went for fits the series pretty well.
Just been wondering this for a while, dunno if I'm just talking out of my ass or not.
Even Thief 1 and 2 gamified the process of picking locks (alternate between one and the other and move the lock into position as you do so).
Both of these examples are better than "you attempt to use a lockpick -> you fail" for a first person game.
Morrowind has significant flaws. One day I will get the resident contingent of autists to admit it.
because "le rage man grrr Holla Forums hate everything xD" meme that people started to internalize and take seriously around 2010 or so.
Everyone needs their white whale I guess.
Skyrim is to Morrowind as Saints Row 4 is to Saints Row 2. Cut out everything good, then improve the player mobility and controls.
That's the problem with it, they left everything as that, a basic concept.
...
good post
Morrowind's was much worse.
Morrowind's speechcraft is a joke, getting any NPCs disposition to 100 is extremely easy. Lockpicking was just completely random chance based on your skill, too. It wasn't any better.
Completely monotonous and same-y across all the factions.
Morrowind (and all DLC) has 79 sidequests and they're all very similar.
Skyrim (and all DLC) has 111 sidequests NOT including the radiant side quests.
Due to engine limitations, both skills and spells pale in comparison to what can be achieved on a modded Skyrim. The only big thing that Morrowind had going for it was the stat-reducing magick, mark/recall, and the 5 minutes of fun you would get out of breaking the game with alchemy, jump and levitation.
Was lower than Skyrim's. Morrowind had great atmosphere but almost no manually placed props that could hint at any sort of tangential story.
Morrowind is Saints Row "1" in this case while Oblivion is SR2. :^)
What the fuck are you talking about? Morrowind wasn't randomly generated, it had thousands of manually placed props that hinted at story. You didn't even play the game did you?
In what way did Morrowind's placed items add to the story in a way that Oblivion/Skyrim's did not?
If anything Blackreach's environmental storytelling is better than anything in Morrowind.
...
I played the game at least 4 times and did all the faction quests. I said
Because it does have some chairs on a table and some sign on the ground made out of coins. The point is that it pales in comparison to the props manually placed in Skyrim.
Compared to Morrowind? Yeah, they did. Again, I played the game right when it came out, most of le redditsirs who claim to have done so never did.
It also has only 7 daedric quests. Daggerfall has 16, Oblivion has 15, Skyrim has 15 (16 if you count Thieves Guild and Nocturnal).
You mean the completely empty dwemer towers that sometimes have 3 barrels or a stack of upturned chairs in them? The copy-pasted ancestral tombs with the only unique thing being enchanted blings with a special name? Vivec's grand library that has 3 times less unique books in it than the Winterhold college library or the bookstore in Imperial City?
It did fell like an RPG to me, but more of a tabletop pen and paper with limited freedom or autistic GM, going realtime, than more videogamey RPG
user, we all know you're from reddit, no need to hide it.
Where did I say this?
You're defending it aren't you?
shut up fag
Absolutely, it's a better game than Morrowind, though not without its flaws, and that's not to say Morrowind doesn't do certain things better regardless.
Go bad to reddit, shitposter.
So you like it? Then what's the big fucking deal. Nice deflection by the way. Try not to use 'le' in the future, it's a dead give away.
In your opinion, which doesn't really mean much. We've had these threads before. Skyrim never wins and it never wins for a reason.
Yes.
You know this imageboard isn't a battle ground right? God damn it how old are you to say something as cringe-inducing as this?
I'm 30. And I'm not stating that this image board is a battle ground, you're the only autist making that cringe-worthy statement. I'm simply stating fact, Morrowind dominates Skyrim every time we have these threads. Sorry that triggers your autism.
So what exactly does Morrowind "win" in "these threads"?
It's more like these threads are endless circlejerks of Kikebride cultists reinforcing their own hivemind and autistically screeching when someone disagrees, then discarding entire elaborate posts explaining why because "lol he likes skyrim".
I'm sorry, I don't have the time to explain this board's culture to a newfag from reddit. Lurk more, post less, you'll get what I mean in no time. Honestly just stay in this thread and you'll see.
To be fair you have to have a very high IQ to like Skyrim.
Your mindset is that of an 8 year old, you actually think you're doing battle with people who have marginally different opinions about video game franchises. It's astonishing how reflexively hostile and autistic you are. I mean you actually remind me of IRL autists who have those rages where they need to be calmed down by their mommy.
I really struggle to understand the Morrowind autism. It's an alright game. Just like all the other TES.
No, I don't, stop projecting.
You're the one screeching last I checked. I'm just informing you of board culture. I'm actually pretty laid back, as you tend to get when you hit 30, maybe you should try taking less offense. It's the internet dude, just like walk away if it's too much for you.
Good roleplaying doesn't actually require good story writing. It requires a fuck load of attention to detail in mechanics design and tons of player agency. In Morrowind you can kill just about anyone and the goals for the game are very lax. It is indeed a very different game from Daggerfall, which is good but almost entirely because of the dungeon generator in my opinion – coincidentally the game would have been total shit if the generator sucked. It feels more like a "real" D&D dungeon that requires you to frequently solve not just combat problems but serious exploration problems, like falling through a shaft into a section of the dungeon that you can't return to without somehow getting back up the shaft. It's something that sounds like it would suck for new players but the most serious ones are not frequent and only come around by the time you should hopefully be non-stupid enough to prepare for it. The rest of the game is mostly just filler to get there, except for the part where you can be a werewolf that runs from the police by jumping from rooftop to rooftop.
Morrowind tries to be a game that makes the rest of it not just filler, by having some very pretty environments (admittedly the Ashlands area is a bit lacking) and organic hidey-holes which you can explore and usually find a quest or steal some shit. It does this not by having deep writing, but by having a lot of simple yet workable quests and a lot of organizations to associate with and a lot of relationships to manipulate. It doesn't have to be well-written, just give you a lot of options.
There's also recall spells and you can get items enchanted for you just for having money, so I really don't understand why people complain about travelling in this game. It just makes you try to explore the world more carefully before you can afford to get the high end transportation options.
Refer back to:
What is the context within a thread such as this for a particular game "winning" or "losing" if not a fictitious battle you have in your mind and your mind alone?
Yeah, greentexting strawmen and stupid non-arguments (see: ), implying liking another game is some sort of cardinal sin, believing threads such as these are a matter of winning or losing etc.
Laid back enough to sperg out about someone who likes a slightly different video game.
Take it easy. Morrowind isn't a flawless game by any means.
Y-yeah!! Our circlejerk hi/v/emind has always been able to circlejerk about morrowank. Dissenting opinions are NOT allowed on this tumblr!
Objectively, Skyrim does some things better than Morrowind. There's some things which Morrowind brings to the table that can be appreciated, which is why I played it so much, but the Morrowank hi/v/eminders are on undertale levels of denial, mostly because they coincide with being Kikebride cultists.
Player agency in a video game RPG means very little if the game doesn't react in any meaningful way to what you're doing.
Such as?
For anything other than a straight dungeon slog, yes it does. Have you ever played a pen and paper RPG with a narrative focus (e.g. Rogue Trader) with a DM who can't write scenarios for shit? It's not fun. Morrowind is the same, NPC characterization is dogshit in it, this much is undeniable and any sensible fan of the game would acknowledge it.
People discussing things and consensus being reached through said discussions over multiple threads. Again: you are the only one who is taking this to "EVERYTHING IS A BATTLE ONLINE!" I never said anything even close to that.
Also that person who was greentexting isn't me. Here on Holla Forums we have a feature called IDs. They're pretty handy. Maybe check them out. It's how I can identify you in this thread.
Honestly I'm not even reading the rest. It's clear you're fresh from reddit and need to lurk more. I won't be posting to you anymore until you do so. Again: if you wait long enough you'll see why Morrowind is more popular than Skyrim first hand. Sorry me pointing out that you're from reddit and are new and have no clue about board culture and are just repeating a thread that's been done to death here triggered you so much. Have a nice day.
Same, I must have put hundreds of hours in Morrowind, but these autists will stomach literally no criticism of it, nor even the slightest implication that another game did something better. I bring up NPC characterization just because Morrowind's NPCs are so undeniably dull to anyone but the most hardened fanboy.
Really? What metric did you use to assess that a consensus has actually been reached? It seems to me that you just shout and scream about other people being from reddit and use greentext and reaction images enough until they leave.
lol
Skyrim is more popular than Morrowind, unless you're talking about Holla Forums in particular. In which case, why be so arbitrary in your segmentation of the sample group?
All TES games suck major dick.
It's just that they all suck differently:
I'm pointing out that these threads have been done to death, that's all. Also pointing out that other user is from reddit. Sorry if you're reading more in to that than I'm putting out there but sounds like a personal problem.
Morrowind gets put on a pedestal because it had a great atmosphere to it and a bit of depth as an RPG (going out and exploring on your own and seeing things you normally wouldn't if you were fast travelling is very fun), but the combat was tedious at times, especially while travelling.
Oblivion fixed most of the issues Morrowind had, but then went on to make its own problems, resulting in a trashy, but enjoyable game.
Skyrim, on the other hand, has neither the shitty charm of Oblivion nor a shred of depth that Morrowind was known for.
Streamlined to the point where it doesn't matter what "class" you choose to play as, with combat so simplified even my mother would be able to smash dragons and a general appeal to the lowest audience by trying to present an "epic" story which is somehow less enjoyable than the average JRPG drivel, it's the ultimate normalfaggot's game.
In fact, it's more of a tour through the game world than a proper game.
It is extremely shallow and if it weren't for the porn mods, it would have no saving grace of any kind.
It doesn't have to be flawless to be a better RPG than Oblivion. It just has to give some point to building a character. When every fight can be beaten with timing, when every lock can be picked by a low level because the mini game is fucking retardedly easy to figure out, so much so that they need hard skill level caps to even allow you to attempt a lock. When the game is so pointlessly easy and offers so little challenge that the only conceivable reason to install it is for "pretend time," then ANY RPG is a better RPG than Oblivion. And that's my point. I'll say it again: at least OP compared Morrowind with decent RPGs whereas you are comparing it with shit and claiming shit is superior. Your only arguments have been in praise of its streamlining and arcadey feel which do nothing but remove opportunities to roleplay.
AYO HOL UP
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand C0DA. The lore is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of metaphysics most of the references will go over a typical player’s head. There’s also Dagoth Ur’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Lovecraftian pulp literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these characters, to realise that they’re not just outlandish- they say something deep about UNIVERSE. As a consequence people who dislike C0DA truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the cosmic spirituality in Vivec dancing around his Muatra, which itself is a cryptic reference to Vedic epic Mahabharata. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Kikebride’s genius wit unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
i enjoyed morrowind most of all, but i don't hate oblivishit and skytrash. just prefer morrowind.
That's not depth, that's just open world games. You can choose not to fast travel in a game like Skyrim too. What Skyrim suffers from is lorefags, storyfags, and waifufags. Lorefags hate it because it's not MUH DEEPEST LORE about homosexual cyborgs from the future. Storyfags hate it because the game is more focused on world-building different factions and mindsets rather than presenting an Obshitian level of story. Waifufags don't suffer, but they're pure cancer.
I didn't think it was that easy, master-level locks were incredibly difficult to pick at lower levels.
This simply isn't true. Once you remove the level-scaling, you don't fuck with people like Daedra.
There are no opportunities to properly roleplay in Morrowind because the world does not respond to you in any meaningful way. Grandmasters of guilds will treat you, even if you're their direct deputy, in exactly the same way as they would if you were a no-name random for example, and there are a thousand other examples all on this same theme. I can barely remember a single time where you are offered multiple ways of resolving a quest in Morrowind, in other words: It's all in your head (your roleplaying, I mean).
...
In Oblivion, the world does not respond to you in any more meaningful way than Morrowind. "Wow it's the Arena champion," is no different than "wow it's the nerevarine, lol" which is the furthest extent that either game world will respond to your actions.
I'm talking vanilla for both cases. (Oblivion modded is still shit though). If you can't block, whack, block, clock, whack your way through the entirety of Oblivion without trouble, there is something wrong with you. Same goes with cheesing the stupid lockpicking/ talking games.
Someone post some Skyrim sluts or at least links where to get them.
I meant the general questing, variation and feeling Morrowind gave me.
I like Oblivion the most, honestly. It's a bad game, but I can have fun in it for a bit.
Skyrim is just boring, and that's the worst.
Care to elaborate?
Except it does.
One is the result of a side-questline, the other is the literal endgame of the main quest.
You can criticize it, but Oblivion and Skyrim do objectively have game worlds which respond to what you do moreso than Morrowind. Why can you not just accept this? Next you'll be defending Morrowind's conversation system.
I'd agree with Oblivion's level-scaling making the game mind-numbing easy. The lockpicking minigame was still hard at lower levels when attempting master locks though.
Oblowmeon is the definition of artificial difficulty at higher levels if you play it normally instead of effectively, and even then it might not be enough.
It's really silly.
shut up
Yes, I have actually, plenty of times, and you just ignored everything I said by saying that a good RPG video game needs good storytelling
Morrowind is great if you love story and lore, outside of that it's incredibly clunky and has gameplay mechanics that were outdated even in 2000.
i first played Morrowind in 2005 so no, It was one of the best games I ever played tbfqh..