FFIX development changes theories

I’ve played FFIX around 12 to 15 times over the last 15 years or so. Not only is it the game I’ve played the most, my favorite Final Fantasy, and one of my favorite games ever, I also think it’s one of the best stories ever told in any form of media. By far the most important aspect to this game/story are the characters. Characters are EVERYTHING in FFIX and not just the playable ones.

ITT, I’ll be discussing FFIX my theories about how some of the smaller characters were meant to be main, playable characters. I have never heard these theories anywhere else; I came up with them myself. So maybe there’s definitive evidence that can debunk these. Or maybe these are well known theories that I didn’t come up with first. I don’t know.

DO NOT READ THIS THREAD IF YOU HAVEN’T BEATEN FFIX! Not only will you not find any enjoyment in the topics I’m about to discuss, but you’ll spoil the greatest FF for yourself.

First, I’d like to disavow a popular a theory about FFIX. Blank, Cinna, and Marcus were never meant to be permanent characters. Maybe they were meant to be in your party longer, but certainly not forever. However, their identity as temporary characters influenced the status change of the character in my next post.

I believe Beatrix was meant to be a permanent character early in the game’s development. So why the change? For multiple reasons.

First, she was meant to be a “fake out end boss”. When she is first introduced, she has her own theme music and she fucking recks your party. This is a play on your expectations. FF veterans would assume that this is the main enemy of the game, as other FF main villains had similar introductions as Beatrix. To accentuate her badass-ness, the developers made her a temporary character. Like the precedent set by Blank, Cinna, and Marcus. So in the frustratingly few parts of the game you can play as Beatrix, they made her an overpowered character.

(Beatrix is also my waifu. So none of you faggots better have impure thoughts about her! Okay?!?)

When you first meet the fluffy fat guy, he is actually on a suicide watch.

Next up is the theory I feel most confident about: Amarant was never meant to be in the game at all. His entire character was meant to the four arm man’s. I believe this was a pretty late change. Here’s my evidence:


So why did they make this change? Well… I don’t really know. It’s pretty bizarre to be honest. But there’s just too much evidence to not believe this to be true. So here are my theories for the change. It can be all of these or none of these:

I believe Mikoto might have been a playable character at some point.

She seems to get more time than she deserves. She was probably dropped midway through development for many reasons. She’s too similar to Zidane, she is a boring character, and she just shows up way too late in the game.

If true, I’m very glad they decided to drop her.

Lani… I don't know about Lani. You only fight her once, then she mildly inconveniences you later. Then they put her in the epilogue where they otherwise only showed main characters! WTF!?

She seems like she was meant to have a lot bigger role, certainly. I'm not sure she was meant to be a main or playable character though… I've always found her presence in the game very strange. Still, I like her and wish she did have a bigger role.

Beatrix is best female in ff series, shit like tomblerone princess shows how the series have fallen

Your theory is shit. Four arms man is just Gilgy (Gilgy changes his appearance and nature to suit the world he is currently in) and Amarant was just the token emo of the group.

Nothing you just said refutes any of my points.

Who?

Shit thread, but you got any more art of Beatrix?

feels bad, wish I had a nice portable version of it

what does this mean? you booted it up 12 times and had a couple battles, or you beat it fully 12 times?


what's your favorite?

name your top 3 novels

In that time you could have read dozens of books. No wonder you think FF9 has a good story, you've got nothing to compare it to.

Beaten it that many times. I don't think I've ever started playing and not beaten it.

Favorite game? Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix. Fucking best game play ever.

Top novels? I don't read too many novels. I prefer short stories and movies. But I'll list them anyway:

Although, I probably just like the experience I had reading Inferno. I read it completely out of order, as I didn't think I would read more than a few dozen pages. Over the course of a like 5 years I read the whole thing. I probably wouldn't like it as much if I read it from beginning to end.


Bitch, I've been working out since I was 14 years old, I have a career I like very much, and screw READING books, I've written half a dozen of them. I even got one book published, so far. I'm only 26.

How I choose to 'waste' my time is nobody's concern. Not that playing video games or absorbing yourself in any form of art is a "waste of time" anyway. Art is pretty much the purpose of life… if life had a purpose.

What has your fat neck-beard ass done with your life?

´>lying on the internet

I believe Gilgamesh may have been intended to be a secret character a la Gogo, Yuffie, etc.
Amaranth (his intended name was cut off by the character limit) ultimately came about when they wanted to represent the monk class. Don't know how they came to the conclusion that his design fit the archetype, but yeah

Adding to topics of discussion: Necron
He's actually foreshadowed an okay amount–he's the other half of the Iifa tree's consciousness that gets alluded to in a few places–but he's never given villain status. At best, along with the Iifa tree fight earlier in the game, he's a reference to Exdeath/Exodus's tree form.
I wonder how much intended buildup was removed

Why would I lie about my favorite game and novels? It's not like Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix is particularly hard. I'm thoroughly confused as to why you think anyone would lie about Kingdom Hearts II FM being their favorite game.


I usually hate when characters are put into the 11th hour. However, I've always LOVED Necron being the final boss and I think they hinted at him just the right amount.

The game is philosophical, so the end fight being against the personified antithesis of everything the main characters believed in is beautiful. Also, I love where the end fight takes place. It's so surreal, it's as if you're fighting in purgatory. Very fitting for the 'crossroads' aspect of Necron.

Could always just toss an eboot of it on a CFWed PSP for free.

wut…i can't imagine you got much out of it…
lmfao, did you read the whole Divine Comedy or just the "inferno" part? Because it's a grand journey that should be read from start to finish…

Anyone can publish books these days, it's irrelevant. The fact that you hate reading yet "write books" is like a guy saying he hates video games but he makes them.


wew, you got brainwashed by consumerism and nihilism, you're fucked man. you think video games are the pinnacle of art and art is the meaning of life, so your meaning of life = video gaming and consuming media, yuck
change course asap,

Ah, I see you are a patrician as well! Thanks for the cool thread! What are your thoughts on Ozma?

Just the Inferno part. Not gonna read the rest. I don't know why I enjoyed reading it out of order, I just did.

I didn't say I hate reading, I said I hate reading novels. I read nonfiction all the time and I love short stories. Which is why I also write books that are anthologies… except for the book I got published. That was a complete novel. Although, it was broken up into 3 major parts that could have been stories on their own, so I didn't stray too far from my format.

Also, you're video game metaphor is kind of correct. Except, I'm like a guy who loves and makes retro style games, but hates modern games. Nothing contradictory about that.

And, ah… if publishing books is so easy, how many have you published?

What do you do besides play video games? I have a career, friends, health, and many hobbies. Whether or not you are nihilistic doesn't change the fact that nihilism is correct. When you die, it's lights out. Nothing means anything and no amount of denial will change that.


Ozma was hard the first time I beat him. But I was also like 12 years old. I wish there were more super bosses. The game gets pretty easy end game, so Ozma is a push over.

That fat white fluffy thing from the swamps

I don't know what's worse, the fact OP is just going on info dump mode instead of discussing a game. Or the fact this insecure fuck is asshurt people on an anonymous board don't give a flying fuck about his life story.
Also >Reddit spacing.
Op kill yourself how about you try to talk about a game and not fucking fellate it and yourself. People like you are the reason this board is hitting the shitter.

I meant theory wise, in line with the thread. sage for clarification post

Go back.

I published about 8 on amazon and made a living off it for half a year until I got bored and found the process tedious.

If this were true you would have never been born. rethink your life and values, you're totally mislead.

how do you know this? how deep have you studied reality?
relativism is a self-contradiction and eats itself.
If "nothing means anything" were true even communication and thinking would be impossible. Truth exists. Reality has coherence and meaning and some level of harmony. Things have meaning, things have value, things have purpose, you are just blinding yourself to reality and your position in it.

I fucked your mom.

I don't think either of you understand what nihilism means. Hedonism is not nihilism although they are frequently related. If you're not addicted to heroin or some other form of completely conscioueness-altering drug, chances are you're probably not a nihilist.
However, to the guy who thinks that writing books is better than reading them: Consider some self-reflection on your narcissism.

Which do you prefer: playing video games or watching others play them?

So by posting in a thread about 9 I will spoil 7? How does that even make any sense??

FFVII is my second favorite, not to far behind IX. Weirdly enough, though, I've only played VII a handful of times.

FF9 seemed more like a classic FF though, with characters being more suited to different things and many more hard to get unique items.

I like IX but this is the most autistic and cringey thread i've seen in a while.

This is how I like my threads though.

Great, another Final Fantasy hipster.

So like Sakaguchi then?

OP, you're a retarded faggot and you should go back.

actually, the hipster came with enix and the shittery of Ff 10-2.

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depressing :^)

Faggot. The Paradiso is even better than the Inferno.

End this thread.

Not OP, but this reddit spacing meme needs to end.

1) A three word sentence is a paragraph if it the idea expressed therein is distinct from the ideas expressed in the sentence before and the sentence following.
2) Some people just like to put a space between complete thoughts. OP actually has two or three sentences that have been blocked together. Each group represents a concept, not a sentence.
3) Even short sentences look like walls of text in the tiny ass reply box.

Ever thought of enlarging the box, fuckface?

Takes effort. Also, see Pic Related.

DOES

THIS

UPSET

YOU

ASPIES?

no, but you seem to be pretty upset redditor
:')

interesting food for thought but you may be reaching a bit hard. Is there much information on the development of the game? FF9 was designed more like some of the better FF games where characters in your party are designed to fill roles as opposed to be characters first. Their roles are written in as a concept, then expanded but ultimately they were considered "how would they play?"

Amarant was likely a result of unfinished development, where they failed to capitalize on his character and couldn't integrate him well into the existing and remaining story beats due to a lack of time. A lot of work goes into getting the characters in the party, lots of scripting, animation work, etc. It's not something that's just done and cobbled together, it's deliberately planned. There are numerous groups of people working on these games, so while the director may have wanted the character archetype in the party, the animators and programmers succeeded at implementing him, the writers couldn't succeed.

In addition, in a long, dense post, you're now covering up the text you're replying to.

Kill yourself as well, you disgusting foul rank slimey grating gutter sewage.

But being a belligerent autist comes naturally?

also the same could be said of Freya - writers failed to capitalize on her presence after disc 1.

additionally;
this thread got infested by normalfags fast

Nice implying there but reddit spacing still appears at 1920x1080 no matter how much you strawman.
Shitheads with crap monitors or god forbid who are phone posting should have no say in anything, least of all how to format text.

The firing squad for you and your ilk.

It's as if I enlarged the fucking box as an example to show you can. I hardly ever need to actually do it.

All phoneposters must fucking hang.

My point being: you don't have to be from reddit to do reddit spacing. You have to either be lazy, or using real shitty devices. I format the text to the box it's in and am lazy, which results in it looking shitty to me when it is posted, but probably being readable on a phone.

this is probably true, shitposters never need more than a few lines

That's a good point. You're probably right. They probably did come up with the characters very early on, designing their look to match the classic FF 'jobs'.


I don't know. Freya's arch just kind of ended at disc 1. I think they explored her well enough after the fact.

On a footnote, half the people ITT:

Fuck you sheep. I'll write how I want. Also, I have literally never made a Reddit post.

That's not FF5.

LOL

...

There's nothing special about any life. We're all just very complex chemical reactions that think we're hot shit. I think I'm the hottest shit and want to escape the bounds of the universe. What would you call me?
Isn't it? I mean, people don't really truly understand each other, even if we share a lot of memes.
Nothing has any purpose except for myself, I'm the greatest thing in the universe and I'm going to prove it.

I feel like Lani would have been playable but that was scrapped early on, since she has a unique weapon. At first I thought it was an axe but it seems like a very big cleaver/hatchet/machete thing. I expected her to join my party and I was rather surprised when the "bad guy joins you" character was Amarant instead.

It seems like a lot of end-game content was cut, probably because they didn't want to add another disc, such as the other three guardians of terra fights, even though they had full combat data and are faced in the final dungeon.

Rope 'em.

As much as I like Amarant, I would have liked Lani more. That axe-cleaver is just so cool and she's hot. Maybe she never meant to be a playable character. Maybe she just just meant to be a red herring; to make you think she would be a new party member instead of Amarant. Didn't work though. Even when I first played the game at ~12 years old I knew Amarant would be in the party and Lani wouldn't. The names and lack there of just give it away.


What difference does posting from a phone make? Is the mobile version make posting different? Does this website even have a mobile version? (I'm fairly computer-illiterate.)

Maybe he's like me and hates smartphones. I've still got a flip phone, and would downgrade to a large beige brick if I could.

autism

The more interesting bits of FFiX are the changes made to the ending. The final boss was originally supposed to be Hades, but he was relegated to hidden boss status. Necron comes out of nowhere in the game probably because he was added last minute but thematically he makes more sense than Hades. When you account for the fact that VIII-X and the movie were being made at the same time it makes you wonder what could have been if they had more time.

Most are a waste of time. Even a lot of lauded philosophers like Plato, Nietzsche and Kant are basically subjective nonsense made enjoyable by fun writing styles. In fact their authoritarian leanings, subjectiveness and charisma lead me to believe they might be sociopaths but that's another story, Ninety percent of everything is shit and that includes literature, even when curated.

4 Arm Man is Gilgamesh you fucking retard. Have you not gotten the Excalibur 2 in your "12 to 15 playthroughs"?

How does finding excalibur 2 confirm that four-armed man is Gilgamesh?

Amarant's purpose was to add flavor to Zidane and Eiko's past. He's basically shadow's archetype and he acts like him, too. He does have a fair bit of story involvement but it was hidden on purpose. The fact that the devs put in little details like him not being able to enter Treno leads me to believe that they didn't bother to do anything else with him rather than that he was unfinished.

Freya is on the other hand is tragically unfinished given her involvement in the plot.

Consider suicide.

I assume you mean Quina. What evidence do you have to support this?

Anyone know what he's talking about?

you didn't make yourself. your parents didn't make you, they were just pieces in the process, just like nature itself, nature is blind/unconscious/unknowing so it can't know how to make you and can't know you, and just obeys laws.
your maker is the same entity that gave nature its laws, it knows you and you should know your maker. that's why you're here.

if non-existence/death/disintegration were permanent then none of us would've ever been born. you need to realize that your own existence is a bizarre miracle in itself

Not really. Nothingness is just an unstable state. That's why particles are constantly phasing in and out of existence in empty space.

It would take too much time and energy to explain why this is, so I'll just give you a half-true, poetic explanation:

A law of our universe is cause and effect; nothing can come from nowhere. However, this law is, in it of itself, something. Therefore, in the state of nothing, this law, as well as every law, doesn't exist. Making existence not only possible, but an inevitability.

So yeah… existence is meaningless. We just spawned from nothing because we could. Or rather, because SOMETHING had to.

Read about psychology and the rational philosophies, and maybe watch some Jordan Peterson. You may just be a meat bag with no higher purpose but you're a human and you need to satiate intellectual needs you never knew you had.

I have zero clue what you're talking about, but it sounds like you're just spewing rhetoric for an Atheistic religion.

I'm an Atheist and a Nihilist. I don't need to join a cult. I'll save that for the sheep that are terrified of death and meaninglessness.

Maybe I'm off the mark here, it just sounds like that's what your saying.

This is a >>>/cuckchan/ tier thread.

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Speaking of cultish behavior…

Holla Forums is not your 'community'. It's just a place for anonymous discussion. Nothing more, nothing less. I choose Holla Forums because it's smaller than other chans and it doesn't seem to have as many minors. Not like you, who has some nationalistic-esque loyalty to a fucking website.

Wow a dubs thread


Lol kys >>>/reddit/

There's a board for you >>>Holla Forums

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You saying that having "nationalism" to a website is good because nationalism is good is like saying masturbating into your dad's morning coffee is good because masturbation is good.

The "nationalistic" part isn't the problem. You shouldn't have such strong feelings for a website. It's a place for discussion and shitposting, you fucking faggot.

And you've done too much of the latter. Go back to >>>/reddit/

O-okay…

Really? That sounds like it could have been pretty cool. It definetly fits the theme of the game: "Mix the best of the old with the best of the new.". So start off old then switch to new.

I'm glad they didn't do that, though. It would have been a completely different game.

If ff9 ever gets remade, would you want it to be a plain and simple direct port with HD textures and all that or would you prefer they rewrite things a bit and flesh out some of the characters more knowing full well they might make everything worse?

I feel like the app game Terra Battle by Mistwalker is all about the brainstorming Square did originally, but ultimately never went through with FF9 due to time constraints.

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The latter. I mean, obviously keep the same basic story, but I wouldn't mind them changing a bit, as long as it's mostly additions. I wouldn't even mind adding new playable characters. Lani or Sir Fratley, for example

Ah, so it is basically a cult.

Continue

Entire new character being playable might be a bit much, I was mainly talking about things like freya getting some closure on her story instead of having everything possible happen to her in rapid succession and then kinda stop being a character for the rest of the game. Though I am kinda worried that modern writers would change her to STRONK WOMYN DONT NEED NO MAN LOL or something equally retarded and ruin her character entirely.

That would be my main concern, too: the new writers fucking it up.

You're not even for having Beatrix as a permanent character?

The issue is the game already has 8 playable characters and together they fill pretty much every party role. Adding any more would take away from these characters. What would beatrix do exactly apart from being steiner but better?

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FFIX is just a fun sci-fi story masquerading as fantasy but too many saw it as a step back after 8 and skipped the 'damage control game' and didnt get the 3rd disc reveals about terra bioforming gaia and how steiner and beatrix were so strong because humans were tougher than natives and already being born for a few generations. Summoners were their native equivalent but with horns.

The only big change in FFIX's development was adding a blue mage with quina to balance later parts where you break the party up. Go watch cutscenes and if its not a cutscene about quina he doesnt exist. The model can be standing there but nobody ever talks to him because in the original builds he was never in the game.

I'm aware of the note left on the sword retard, it doesn't prove the four-armed man is gilgamesh though.

Near the end of the game, the four armed man will be in Dageurro at the top of the lift on the right. He will tell you his name if you are at Treasure Hunter rank S, which might or might not require Excalibur 2. His name is Gilgamesh. Canonically, every appearance of Gilgamesh in the series is the same exact Gilgamesh from FF5. He wanders the multiverse ever since Exdeath threw him into the Void. I'm pretty sure there is some flavor text somewhere in FF9 where Gilgamesh calls out for Butz, but I am probably misremembering that.

Quina is the most powerful character.

Freya is one of the most tragic characters in a video game and she has no redemption which just sucks to think about