Action game mechanics haven't evolved past Jedi Outcast and Academy

Hence why nothing has changed. Humans get bored with the same formula time after time and went after different stories instead. If the text of the game does not fully immerse the player then it fails without making the combat or gameplay different and more immersive. Usually you have to target a specific demographic audience to get the right immersion for story since not everyone wants the same thing there.

With gameplay you need to think of either intuitive ways for different input. An example of such would be a wiimote or the intricate rumble motors of the nintindo switch. Or ways to input that are simple enough a literal monkey could use it and yet be complex enough by addition of new input that it could be more challenging as the game progresses.

A great example of this progression style however shit the game quality is are mobile games where the player swipes up and left/right to achieve a objective. The input is reasonably simple enought for a monkey, but it gets complex enough by increasing the speed for it to be entertaining for those who are easily able to grasp such simple movements.

No way, while they're more realistic, JKII still has a lot more range of movement.

Same, but with kicking.

You can't even control the swinging direction, it only plays static attack animations.

What are you talking about x3

If you want serious reply, the game called Blade Symphony was made by people who loved jedi academy.

These jedi knight games have that kind of progression though, in form of force powers that you unlock as the game goes on.

Could you shut up.

Consoles and "press a button for combo" mentality.

I'm saying having full control is pointless because it ultimately makes combat basic as fuck. Unless you think die by the sword is the peak of melee combat in games. Having set tools which interact with a sandbox of clearly defined rules leads to far better game play and action games benefited far more.

I'm going to wait for you to tell me what you think is so much better about outcast/academy combat over devil may cry 4, god hand, bayonetta, ninja gaiden black. go ahead.

The hell are you implying? I'm not even one of the knee-jerk Halo haters on this board, but if you're saying Halo has anywhere near the depth of Jedi Outcast or Academy you need to go right the fuck back to cuckchan. Halo barely even uses its power armor mechanic until Reach, and even then the only other thing you can do with it besides righting an overturned vehicle is to use a collection of abilities mostly equivalent to those the Jedi Knight games had years before.

and they promptly gave up on it, shut down official servers, and gave the game to a few shit devs that don't know how to keep it updated.

There ya go. No one has developed any input method better then those two games for that genre. So developers have rehashed or created stories targeted towards specific audiences. As the years have gone by things like graphics and control response times/delay/lag were improved to improve the storyline immersion. But the input to the game itself was never changed/improved upon. It's just a copy of Jedi knight's formula or a copy of copies.

Do you have an idea that would improve upon the mechanics of it? I mean more so then others have already improved that is. If you do, go make a game then.

Yeah most of those are shit.
Exception being M&B and maybe monhun, both having simpler combat mechanics than Jedi games.

And that game is dead because no PvE.

Halo was the death of the FPS/Action genre in my eyes. It is no coincidence that we didn't get updates to the Jedi Outcast style of combat after Halo (and multi-platform action games) became successful.

retard

most of the best action games came out after halo
wow a genre which had so many games before halo like doom and quake and uh…

I bet he didn't even play during the game nights at least once.

Kikes are why that genre didn't improve. The kikes in the american military took over the FPS vidya industry to better train soldiers to know enough to be dangerous on a battlefield but useless at home. For example knowing how to shoot you can learn somewhat better with FPS's. But learning how to clean and take care of a gun you ain't gunu learn. Games like Call of duty only exist still because of the USA military.

Descent, Tribes, Powerslave, Douk, Hexen, Mechwarrior

No, they exist because normalfags wanna be a leet action hero and play the multiplayer until they colostomy bag explodes.

I know that game, but unfortunately it's clunky, the camera is too close up the character's butt to actually see what's going on, and the animations are crap. It's just crudely made, nothing like the super slick Jedi Knight. The online has been dead too I heard.

What do you mean by basic? Having less predefined movement sequences? That kind of shit is just an illusion of depth.

That's just a case of bad control scheme. Try the spiritual successor, Severance BoD, that fixed the issue. It may as well be considered as one of the best action combat.

Full air control, having to manually aim your character's facing and slashing direction, having to manually aim force powers, every force power has completely different purpose, strength/weakness, and effect on the game's physics, and so on.

I was too young when the game was at it's peak of popularity.

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I would prefer a million Quake clones as a matter of fact, at least they have the potential to be good video games unlike ebin cinematics bruh.

6 dof shooter =/= fps
kinda mediocre mp focused game
but its a le ebil console shooter :^) its also not better than doom or quake
lest we forget episode 2 exists and really drags down a good game into being a mediocre game, even then it never really hits the same sort of monster layouts doom or quake does so much better. remove zany one liners and it loses its charm
lol romeroshit, a worse doom and a worse witchaven than either game
really fucking reaching there

reddit zinger count: 1
yeah despite being different in every way and having more in common with games with actual pre-determined move sets.
this isn't a good thing or necessarily a bad thing, but it does greatly limit the level of control you have because its a pointer based game
idc

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

I don't argue with retards

Ah yes, the hardcore military training simulation that is CoD multiplayer.

No one has even copied it.

Not much, but my point is nobody has even tried the same formula, let alone improving it.

archive.fo/ms0HT
please use archive.is/technology/2014/oct/22/call-of-duty-gaming-role-military-entertainment-complex
Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) approached many developers with the idea of writing video
games that could be used to train soldiers.

Why isn't this common knowledge yet?

What the fuck is with the wordfilter shit? It ruined my formatting too. It's a (((guardian))) article so (you) all now know.

Maybe a lock-on system like Metroid Prime or Zelda. Your vision being fixed would hinder your ability to not get your shots blocked by a lightsaber, but you'd get more precise melee controls. You could shift between locked and unlocked controls in the middle of a combo to achieve new combos, adding to the shifting between stances. Since having a lock-on of this type would essentially render a lightsaber duel into something much like a 3D fighting game, there could be fighting game-like inputs in addition to just the mouse and movement keys, but you'd probably need an expensive mouse with a ton of buttons to make that workable. They could also add new weapons like the lightwhip, lightlance and curved hilt lightsaber.

Yeah, Jedi Academy is too intricate for normalfags to ever get into. It'd probably make a good e-sport though. If e-sports had been a thing in its heyday it most likely would have been. Even with Reach giving us armor abilities it still doesn't have the depth of melee combat that Jedi Knight has, and yet Halo is a fixture in e-sports. There are a lot of people who love lightsaber duels, and who'd love to watch what amounts to an unlimited supply of new and unique ones. Of course, if Jedi Academy was an e-sport we'd have all the same e-sports-related bullshit that we see in the fighting game community and MOBAs.

stumbled straight outta halfchan, didn't you

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This is proof you don't actually even browse this board unless it's to complain that other games aren't clones of JKO/JKA.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm insulting you because you demonstrated yourself to be a retard right out of the gates. if you want to stop being called a retard change ids or try again in a few days. retard.

No I just don't post links on Holla Forums all that often.

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Not just that, it's a system that simply would not work on consoles. The closest we got right now is For Honor and look how well that is going.

My point was that with the popularity of Halo the whole direction of action games, both third person and first person, went to shit because the number one concern was "How can we make this work with a controller?"

Halo was responsible for the overall slowing down of FPS games, it was responsible for regenerating health bullshit and all the issues that mechanic leads to and so forth. The only viable innovation it brought to the table was a dedicated grenade key, that's it.

uh sure

Take this picture, you will need it.

controllers have games with better melee combat designed for them. kb/m is too limiting and lacks features present on every other commonly used device.

pointer controls lol

So I'm supposed to take The GoodGoydian's word for it?

The rest of the """""evidence""""" is pretty shaky too.
Weren't they litterally paying men to stare at goats and try to kill them with a psychich heart attack around then too? The government is/was retarded sometimes, get over it.
Literally tells us nothing. Trump used to be a symbol that was widely loved but now he's "literally hitler" to half of the US.

>implying trump isn't good goy controlled opposition

But we've had a million of games with better gunplay mechanics than HL and Quake, as well as more complex storytelling, level design, movement, physics, additional mechanics, and everything. FPS games have evolved a lot.

wtf is your point even, autist

If you disable the combo bullshit from the game and up the damage, it would be really close to Die by the Sword, but with better camera perspective and controls over your character.

Maybe it's you who's too old to be here.

I'm already old enough to buy alcohol this year.

What? You don't move pointers?

You have no argument but still desperately try to shitpost.
You probably should stop humiliating yourself and leave the thread.

I think the only benefit of a controller over a keyboard is it is easy to memorize the button locations and to standardize them. Along with the obvious benefit of having a percentage of movement via joystick sensitivity. But aiming is still better left to the mouse as only movement itself benefits from a joystick. What someone needs to do is make a keyboard with a joystick where the WASD keys are that you can plug in and take out. That way you get a normal keyboard and a vidya joystick for movement whenever you need it.

TLDR; controllers are simple and keyboards by having more keys are complex.

story and physics mean nothing, and 'better movement' is actually objectively false. the only game with better gunplay than either quake or hl is doom, all others have failed to truly prop themselves up

I'm not the user you were argueing with you retard. I was just offering that as a way to recognize shit arguements and be smug about it.

did you ever play either game out of curiosity

no, the d-pad mechanism, analog stick, gyro controls which are becoming a standard, is what ultimately makes controllers better for action games.

more buttons =/= more complex

Again, you don't even browse this board unless it's to make threads like these.

Fighting on a semi-2D plane maybe or Descent-style full directional control. For the latter people prefer flight sticks though, not controllers and those games are pretty rare.

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nigger you can change your direction mid swing animation in ds3 and its a pretty important pvp mechanic

It'd be cumbersome to switch between both camera styles and different stances, so you could create presets for both. That way instead of scrolling through however many stances to get to the right one, which arguably takes too long as it is in JA, on top of changing between unlocked and locked camera, you just go to your preset menu, configure it with the stance and camera you want, and assign it to a key. What this gives you is the ability to build your own fighting style by using the building blocks provided. There isn't nearly enough of that in games. How many times have you seen a situation in a fighting game where you wished you could do a certain move with a certain character because it would perfectly work into their style, but you can't? You should be able to remedy that.

I think a special mouse for this purpose may be the only way forward because outside of motion controls or other abnormal interfaces, our control schemes only have a limited number of possibilities defined by the number of keys on them. The only way to get more possibilities is to add more keys. Flight sim players have joysticks which often feature numerous keys for all the various controls. Even without switching between locked and unlocked cameras, which is arguably too much of a hassle, just a new mouse alone would up the ante enough for a proper sequel to JA.

travel time, lack of a mechanism. qcf for me please
wow i had no idea………thanks mirster reddit
yeah pretty much far more important than pointing better.
we're talking about action games in general, and for first person shooters it makes aiming far better, but since we're talking action games it allows additional degrees of freedom without the loss of button inputs or requiring extra digits.

holy fcuk user, never mind the fact that you clearly haven't played any games which use it, this is just hilarious

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I'm talking way over your head, and I don't think you're prepared for this discussion

Try explaining it really slowly then like if I was some retard. Some dpads have eight inputs and some four. I still don't see the benefits of it over a mechanical key in a touch typist setting.

not gonna bother but review here:
mechanicalkeyboards.com/terms.php
+ also by playing more games, you're literally at the point where you're too dumb to discuss this without changing the entire topic of the thread to build it around educating you and i dont care to do that

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Dumbass. Recoil system is the most important aspect in a video game gun's physics.

How? We now have walljumping, wallrunning, temporary speed and jump height increase, acrobatics in Jedi Knight, FEAR's martial arts, XYZ movement in Descent, and so on.

No. Doom's gun is 2D and has no recoil.

That's just facing direction. You can't choose HOW you swing the weapon.

I knew just about every term in that document. Why are you using a shitty keyboard that can't handle 8+ keypressess at the same time? Don't tell me you use windows too.

What does this even mean? I keep seeing this term thrown around like a meme but as far as I'm concerned it means nothing.

How the gun looks, how the gun handles, and the enemy's response to damage.

I use a ps/2 keyboard with n-key rollover. You literally don't understand the difference between mechanism and mechanical. here's a hint: I'm not talking about switches. Like I said, too stupid to have the conversation.

something redditers say instead of the correct phrase, mechanic

Dragons Dogma is a combofest that requires no skill to play and is a until you get to the insane bosses.

A action or a proccess by which work is done.
For example the activation mechanism. The key's mechanism.
A adjective to describe something using a mechanism. A mechanical keyboard. A mechanical button.
Still not a arguement and doesn't answer why you couldn't just use a second hand on the keyboard like in a touch typist setting. Done responding as either I am just this fucking retarded and not understanding your unredeemable plebbit cancer of non-arguements. Or you are too autistic to understand me. Words have meanings, use them.

HERE

That's the worst Jew meme I've seen yet, user less is more for memes.

now that you understand the difference between a mechanism and a mechanic, you're getting closer. the d-pad has specific qualities that lend itself well to game inputs such as the travel time, the layout of buttons, buffering on a hardware level, resistance and even the way the pads perforate to make contact. keyboards work on an entirely different principle and sure, being able to press more buttons at the same time has its uses in games (although so few games are designed around it, it really doesn't even matter), but d-pads alone are far better designed for games by and large.

I don't think you're retarded, I think you're just way too inexperienced and are speaking exclusively from where your experience lies, which is clearly in pc gaming and pc controls. I've used and played my fair share of genres across many systems with many different input methods. You don't seem to understand basic elements of a controller so I don't think you have any experience with them, but you seem to know a little bit about keyboards so I assume you have experience with them at least.

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Fun. Jedi Knight games were fun, unlike everything else you listed. Everything you listed is just button mashing boring trash.

What's so boring about them?

They're repetitive.

Yes, but why?

Do you not understand the definition of repetitive?

I am asking you why it is that you find the games repetitive. What's repetitive about it? Just 'repetitive' doesn't tell me anything.

Because they are repetitive.

The repetition part.

play on a higher difficulty, or maybe consider actually playing the games instead of being a good little mustard goy and hating anything not pc.

Yes, but what about the game is repetitive?
And what part would that be?

Oh wow, you make such valid, concise and constructive criticism.
Colour me impressed.

You might like them if you tried them.

nah, he has to protect his gay starwars shit

The part where you repeat the same thing for the entire game.

Is there a specific part of the gameplay of DMC4/GH/Bayo/NGB you're referring to, or what? What are you specifically referring to?

Just mashing buttons for some gay ass boring combo bullshit.

such a powerful defense, its almost like you know all the ins and outs of these games. I bet you think the same thing about fighting games, the plebs competitive genre. its all about fps games.

What do you mean with mashing buttons? Last I checked the inputs for said combos couldn't be reduced to just mashing and required that you have the room to pull them off so you don't get hit mid-combo. Besides, what do you find so boring about combos anyways?

Devil May Cry 1 and 3 are the best action games

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Apply yourself, user.

Look, button mashing combo shit is boring because it's "press X button at the right time to play Y animation". It feels more like a rhythm game rather than an action game, and the movement that happens on the screen is a predefined, automated movement that was triggered by a set of abstracted instructions rather than direct intervention of the player. It doesn't feel natural, there's too much abstraction in such mechanic.

In Jedi Knight, the player actively controls every movement that happens. Improvisation, accuracy, spatial awareness, and twitch reflexes matter more than rhythm here. It's a matter of having a direct control over your character. Preferring DMC to Jedi Knight is like preferring Overwatch to classic twitch skill based FPS games with no special abilities.

I've seen you make more than a few threads praising Jedi Outcast and shitting on stylish action games, and I'm genuinely curious. Are you shitposting or do you sincerely believe the things that you're saying?

preferring dmc to jedi knight is like preferring chess to tic tac toe. sounds like you're either shit at these games or are a PC fanboy or something.

What do you think, homo.

No, it's like preferring airsoft guns to real guns.

You're seriously saying DMC is a simplistic rhythm game that the player doesn't actually have control over?

I genuinely can't tell, which is why I was asking. Surely you had a laugh when you compared Jedi Knight to "twitch skill based FPS games with no special abilities" considering how Force powers work in those games. Right? You weren't being serious?

Less control, but not without control at all. Do you understand what abstraction means?

The force powers need to be aimed like a traditional fps weapon. Might as well consider most of them as different types of weapons.

this is truly far more impressive than any high level game play in dmc, dmc3, dmc4, anything. this is the ultimate in action game mechanics right here.

a clunky third person shooter style game with auto parrying/blocking and pointer based aiming. Incredible.

I actually kinda drew a blank there when I saw that Jedi Academy came out in 2003. The game looks like something for the dreamcast or playstation with a bit of extra texture filtering tossed on there. Kinda jarring how much better dmc looks when I think about it. Looks like a generation ahead despite jedi academy being 2 years older.

With a mouse?

sounds very high skill, doesn't it?

The irony in your post.

Is this halfchan Holla Forums? I thought we were above this

It's okay buddy, still looks more fun than DMC.

Truly teh pinnaple of action games.

its just food for thought, don't take it so seriously

idk man it looks really boring, I've played a lot of fps games and third person shooters on pc and they all play pretty similarly, gotta say it looks more like the same

hi guy who never played the game

I just want to check again, are you SURE you're not shitposting? Posting a video of the first mission in DMC3 on Normal difficulty when Dante has absolutely no abilities or weapons unlocked whatsoever, and comparing pistols meant for combo chaining and juggling to pistols in an FPS? Defending at 0:20 as though it "needs to be aimed like a traditional fps weapon"? This is really your sincere opinion?

At the highest level force power, the damage area is significantly larger. Force lightning is the most energy consuming force power, but it doesn't matter in that video because the guy who plays it uses cheats.

oocares

I'll never understand why people think these games have good combat systems. You have very little control over what your saber actually does.

Try using the red stance. It requires extra care because it's slow but powerful.

Your point in previous posts was that Jedi Knight's force powers had to be aimed with precision. Force Lightning and Force Push (to throw guys off cliffs) clearly don't need to be aimed. The amount of force power they consume is irrelevant; you're moving the goalposts because you were proven wrong.

If there's better gameplay, post it. But you can't, because you never play these games and you don't know anything about game design.

Probably the same reason Melee players think the game has "infinite combos which you build on the fly" instead of a handful of optimized combos, DI mixups, input traps, etc. which were all figured out years ago. Some people are just too fucking stupid too realize what dominant strategies are, even if they've seen most of the "INFINITE POTENTIAL COMBOS" ignored in favour of the dominant strategies.

No.

There are too many points that people made here to try to point out why they do or down't work, but I'll just focus on this. When you make Dante/Bayonta/who ever/ do a backflip 360 gun kata, flying kick. All you did was press X X X X. YOU, the player did not actually preform that. It was a pre-set animation for that combo. It looks nice, sure but YOU, didn't do it. This is why The Force Unleashed, was so shit. Starkiller did a lot of "cool moves" but the player had no real input over them, just when to initiate them. Flashy moves does not make the gameplay deeper.

I don't even know what I'm reading now. Yes, taking into account the hurt box of your lightsaber going through 3d space is very important. Especially since limbs and headshots do different amount of damage.

So this is probably the biggest mistake I see everyone making in this thread. These are very different gameplay types. DMC like games are based around combos and keeping up your combo meter. JO/JA is based around positioning and hiting the person at the right place at the right time. The lightsaber is suppose to act like a lightsaber and murder things it touches with a good hit.

Thank you for brining this up. I knew someone was gonna say this.
You did choose which attack you just did, and you are in complete control of that attack you are doing, especially in Jedi since you can move the mouse around while swinging and even move during the swing depending on it. That does sound like word play I know, but obviously video games are still video games and this isn't a VR sword fighting game, and "Die By The Sword" types of controls are limited by the input devices you use. Still, you are given around 8 swings per stance that each have a "strength and weakness" to them and you are suppose to pick the swing that best fit your situation. Person going to your side? Horizontal left swing. Person right in front of you? Vertical forward swing. Person charging you with a vertical forward swing? Walk backwards to the right for a defensive right swing parry. Timing is key obviously. If someone sees you are just spazzing out on your swings, they will know when the end time of certain swings are and attack when you are at your weakest.

Didn't know where to place this, but most sword fighting styles in RL, tend to be based around mastering a few basic swings, and knowing when to use them. So I would compare the set amount of swings to "thats what someone trained would use for that style".

Yes, even when perfect precision isn't required, there's still more directional control than Platinum type games.

Try this video. Force push and force pull have narrower area than Jedi Academy at high force level.

You are retarded.

Apparently, The Force Unleashed doesnt exist.

you have a very poor understanding of how these games work. In that period of pressing X X X X you have numerous options, each being situational to a point. Do you interrupt it part way to deal with small, flying enemies by hitting them with an explosion, or do you jump off of them, do a slam into the ground with your sword while lining it up for another enemy? Do you anticipate an enemy attack, time those jumps to coincide with them to dodge or perform a parry? you the player did this and gauged the level of control over the environment you have. You read the enemies, you read the environment, and you remembered how to control dante/bayonetta/whoever to achieve these results. If they were effective the game will recognize your effectiveness, rank you highly, and if you wish to expand? Incorporate taunts, change your weapons, unlock a different move, switch to the slow and heavy style of the ifrit gloves which encourage delayed button presses in the middle of a combo to achieve different results. There's so many options and choices in how you approach the game play, outcast/academy can't hold a candle to it. What's more, is the choices are far more important and impactful on the game play than just "durr hurr i point here."

in jedi knight, what choice do you make? Oh I'll point in this direction to maximize the damage in this 2 on one encounter. Oh I'll force push and slice up a few guys with a convenient placement of my light saber which required very minimal effort and only the ability and necessity to switch between force moves (a few button presses), and a simple attack with your light saber.

the melee combat in the jedi academy/outcast games is so embarrassingly simple, and the conversation is far beyond 2f0ea7's understanding that it's not worth doing anything but mocking him.

Pc keyboard games are great for people who can type without ever looking at the keyboard.

Everyone else would require custom mad braille like key boards.

Depsite not being out yet, it's still gonna be the worst monster hunter game ever.

You know what else has full control combat? Skyrim. Full control doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically good. Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma for example has pretty good combat because your actions are limited (ie attacking means forgoing movement).

You might have a point if 1) you had a high degree of control over the movement of the lightsaber and 2) having a high degree of control over the movement of the lightsaber was necessary to complete the game, but neither of those are true. The movement of the lightsaber and the movement of your mouse are very loosely related, and you can get through the game by haphazardly slashing anyway.

Making such a big deal out of canned animations in DMC is pretty autistic anyway, I'm surprised to see multiple people doing it. If you tap triangle Dante will slash in a predetermined animated arc, and there truly isn't any correlation between pressing a thumb and swinging a sword, but it's only a matter of frames during which you're "not in control" of the character. You're making it sound like every single attack is a Torture Attack- or Roulette Wheel-style animation that you have to watch play out.

I only have DMC 4 and Bayonetta 1 as my major source of reference and God of war 1 and 2 which the creator called DMC EZ mode. So I'm just talking from what I can recall from them. I think I did play some of the other DMCs and Ninja Gaiden as well, but that was more then 5 years ago so I won't even count it.

I mean, switching a few words around and that would remain true for JO/JA. Enviroment awareness and keeping track of enemies around you would apply to almost any game with combat.
Also, in a game like Bayonetta, dropping a combo to dodge something that was about to land a hit in the back of your head is important yes. Maybe might do that by pressing dodge, which activates witch time for example, but isn't the ability to dodge out of any attack mid animation something that makes the game less complex. This is of course different then mid combo where you haven't started the next attack. My memory of Bayonetta is that witch time was very generous. My point here is that dog piling mechanics and features could just as well make the game easier and less complex.
Ranking systems are more like sprinkles on a cupcake. score doesn't really work well here because the game is based around the idea that a lightsaber to the head will drop most guys in one hit, including if it happens to you. Now thinking about it, Jedi is more "Mah realism", or at least as realistic laser swords on magic space knights can be. There is actually a taunt button that works on the AI, but most players probably never bother using it. There are actually a lot of un-utilized gameplay feature most people will never use.
A games interface should get in the way as little as possible. That makes it seems like you would think Metal Gear Solids 4 control scheme that required you to press and hold 3 different button to switch between 3rd person and first person is an example of complex controls. As appose to cumbersome.
The first is actually true. Your mouse look controls don't stop when you start a swing with the exception of a few specials and katas. It will still do that swing animation, but you can move the saber where you want it to go, and its very helpful.
Debatable, but yes I suspect most people will probably finish a play through without ever realizing that. There is actually a lot of gameplay mechanics that I know most people probably never new existed. You can hold down the use key to do a matrix dodge next time someone attacks you for half your force points. You can use grip to use people as human shields against gunfire, or knock down other npcs, wall jumping can lead you to alternate routes and secrets. There is actually wall jumping. There is also a force long jump. ect. The single player AI is a bit easy to cheese, but are we saying gameplay difficulty and game mechanics one in the same? You can probably get through most of the game with just guns and force powers.
I only brought it up because it sounded like people thought QTEs would count as examples of "deep gameplay" so long as it was flashy enough.
I do want to make special mention that in Jedi, precision is very important. You don't have to "aim" with Dante or Bayonetta. At least, not very much. Camera control jokes aside, all ether of them have to do is be close enough when they start the attack, and most attacks have very generous attack ranges. Assuming the enemies don't block or something of course. Its easy to trivialize aiming but in Jedi it is completely possible to miss by pixels because you looked too far to the side, to high, or too low.
Another point I should address.
I don't know what can be said about multiplayer when compared to DMC and Bayonetta though, but this is probably where most people will spend most of their play time. If they got it for PC, I forgot that these games came on on consoles.

Too many typos, its late. Didn't think it would be this long.
As in, one of those self imposed challenged yourself, I would not recommended it.

Why are people comparing Jedi Academy and DMC anyway? They're two totally different kinds of action games. It's like comparing Simcity 4 to Banished.

This

Wow, if you mash buttons in THIS order, you can make this number go up a little higher. Awesome!

Shit genre. RTS is the best competitive genre, and FPS is in fact better than fighting games.

Because it's fucking monotonous.
summed it up pretty well.