Fictional writing systems in vidya

ewww

Its like you don't even autism.

As others have pointed out, consider what the language should look like in cursive. Chances are good if you can't write the lines quickly while still being legible and distinct, it might not be worth reconsidering the lines.

Also something worth thinking about is the numbering system. Do they use base 10 like us (and far too many fictional languages)? Do something fun, like base 60 or 12. You don't have to consider more complicated math like square roots and such, but having a language use a numbering system that's different than our own makes a fictional language feel more authentic or well thought out in my opinion.

I'd like to see a setting use a prime number base due to some kind of entry barrier fuckery done by a prevaling society of merchants and accountants that don't want stupid goyim peasants learning enough to become competition, or for that matter, realise how much they're getting fucked over.
I hope I'm only being kind of retarded here and that prime bases haven't actually been used in any widespread system for something useful.

There's the DigiCode, which is pretty easy. Most cryptic languages based on phonetics are neat, and it's particularly easy seeing how Kana works. The english counterpart is retarded.

There was a time when that was a fucking plague, but lately I've seen less and less pronouns or weird sexual orientations in some of the wikis I've seen recently. Hopefully, that shit dies completely.

If you make a clock, you don't have to have 24 hours with 60 minutes per hour, and 60 seconds per minute in a unit called a day, you can create your own standard. What we define as time, as a standard unit of measurement, is completely arbitrary, chosen by a few people, and the standard has just stuck with us. You're free to make your own decisions on anything like time, length, mass, and so forth.

I'm assuming the clock looked weird to you because you're too familiar with base 10. Had you been using base 8 your whole life, the clock would have made perfect sense. Say the time was 12:52 in base 10, in base 8 using standard hours, it would appear as 14:64. It only looks wrong because 60 in base 10 is 74 in base 8 ((7 * 8^1) + (4 * 8^0)).

Really unethical behavior right there.
Kinda makes me want to screencap them because I still have the original page open.

Are you just pretending to be retarded?

Hey everyone this is my OC writing system I made, I invented this from scratch and am taking it to the patent office right now so I can charge for royalties if anyone decides to use it. I call it FELTIE, since the text is made entirely out of horizontal slashes. Let me know if you like it so we can get in touch.

Ok here's the full language, for real, this time. (Which I made)

>What we define as time, as a standard unit of measurement, is completely arbitrary, chosen by a few people, and the standard has just stuck with us. You're free to make your own decisions on anything like time, length, mass, and so forth.
Not quite. Whether it's base 10 or base 8, it helps immensely to choose numbers that are highly divisible when making a clock.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_composite_number
12 is divisible by numbers such as 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6.
60 is divisible by numbers such as 1, 2, 3, 4, "5", etc.
By comparison, 64 isn't cleanly divisible by 5. Hence, why base 8 clocks aren't a thing.
It's the same reason why we use "360" degrees in a circle, because that too is a highly divisible number.

My point is that numbers on a clock aren't exactly arbitrary. You can't simply use just ANY numbers and expect it to fuction as well as our current clock does. To try and convert it to base 8 wouldn't be the smooth transition you'd expect it to be.

Hence, why I gave up on incorporating base 8 in general

Using a prime number as a base is pretty tricky outside of smaller bases like base 2 or base 3. There aren't problems in actual computation, but for everyday life it becomes a pain in the ass. Consider 10/4 and 10/3 in base 10, it is 2.5, and approximates to 3.3333 respectively, both dealing with decimals, making mental calculations a bit of a pain, while 12/4 and 12/3 is 3 and 4 respectively, very easy to calculate in your head. So for shopping and something is labeled as being 25% off, the mental math is usually easier in base 12 than in base 10 because 12 is a highly composite number. There's a reason people are suggesting we change our system.

So using primes as the base would be a royal pain in the ass. For example, say we used base 13. Every fraction would have a potentially messy decimal, even simple ones such as 10/2 (13/2) would equate to 7.5, another number that is a pain to work with. Imagine if all the units of coins where also a bitch to use, with no consistency. The merchants would have a blast fucking over every peasant.

I wouldn't want to rip off your system, no offense, but there's just too many straight lines and it's just a simple English conversion, which has been done to death, and is not autistic enough for me to love.

No.. But look at how many standards we have on any unit of measurement. If I search for a conversion of just length, I'm given things such as miles, meters, cubits, nautical miles, and even smoots, all of them created by man. If I wanted to, I could define some distance as a new measurement, and use it. It probably wouldn't take on, because we have standards, but I could define it arbitrarily to whatever I wanted to.

Why not make them more visually distinct?

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What wonderful work there my fellow friend, I know a few guys in the patent office that would make patenting it a breeze.

Like how French is the language of love, yours is the language of loss.

64 numbers is a lot to use so I'm planning to cull them down, if you see from my sample image, they become visually distinct when given proper spacing. It's not going to have the same issue as braille where it just becomes a series of formless bumps and each line which makes the spines of the letters helps differentiate them from each other. I'm planning to use a base 7 numbering system too so I can set aside a decent portion of the characters for that.
Reminder that I created this and that anyone who says otherwise is lying (I have one really persistent fellow who keeps following me and claiming otherwise)

Thank you my good friend, I'd like to get it done quickly before that other man steals it from under my nose.

The art is much appreciated! Make sure to spread this around so everyone knows of FELTIE! and the many layers of irony there is in its loss

If you think these games are moeshit with no good stories, well-developed characters, an interesting setting and godly soundtracks, you're no more than trash.

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I take complaint with the order of the characters.
There is a clear pattern of simple to complex, the letters sholdn't be in that order like that like in enlish you stat at A and end at Z both of which are 3 lines.

Though Hymmnos isn't the only language featured in that setting.

Took me a lot of work, but I think I finally cracked some of the letters. I find the usage of fictional languages in dialogue in such quantities questionable, but hey, No Man's Sky did it, so I guess others can too.

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There was this film about some anthropologists who try to find vanishing languages to preserve them and they found a language where they stated at like base 12 so like 123456789ABC then went 10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,1A,1B,1C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,
Then went K1 did a standard base 10 then switched back over to base 12

Oh you.

I've never seen someone say that of a game that just had a substitution cipher. It makes sense that almost no games have new languages, though. Most people want a fun puzzle to solve, not to dedicate hours of study to something which will have a negligible benefit to their enjoyment of the game. And furthermore, actually making a new language would take a lot of time and linguistic knowledge that most devs aren't going to have, and the effort wouldn't benefit them. An entire game that's actually in a language that didn't exist prior to its existence would be interesting, but only the autists among the autists would bother to play it.

those are cool numbers, I use those sometimes for lists. I really like D'ni and Daedric.

I've indicated two letters here (1) and (2) which according to your charts are pronounced 'ha' and 'wo', but I distinctly recall playing a different game which used this language (same developers I guess?) in which they were equivalent to 'wa' and 'o'. (2) might be the same with just me or you having misheard it slightly since 'o' and 'wo' are very similar, but there's no way that your chart is accurate if you're saying that (1) was 'ha'.

Wait,the movie is the linguists and its the Sora language
its 1 though 12 then 13 then 12-1, then at 30 it comes 20-10, at 32 its 20-12, then at 33 its 20-12-1
the number 93 is 4-20-12-1

I think it has to do with pronounciation, since I noticed they say the same character differently when in a word and when separate. Personally, I think the devs are just fucking with us

I've never heard of that, and it sounds pretty cool, now I have something to check out once final are over.

I think they do this to make it impossible to learn it.

Have you heard that some languages have multiple counting systems based on what you are counting?
There is one that is base 3 for things like coconuts and base 4 for things like bananas

These devs must be 12 years old or something, that bullshit's just straight up childish.

It's more likely just a combination of apathy and budgeting. It's just fluff world-building stuff, so they probably didn't double check everything they did for it, since it would take way too long. You might as well hire a legit translation staff if you're gonna go that far with it, and if you've gone that far, then you might as well pay for it to be translated to a language that actually exists.

12 is a perfect base for a numeric system due to being divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6, but humans have 5 fingers per hand so we're stuck with decimal
hexadecimal is also much more flexible than decimal because 16 is a power of 2

We have four fingers per hand. We have five digits per hand.

I think it was the mesopotamians that had a base 12 system, and they counted using finger knuckles instead of fingers themselves, and they could use both hands to easily get to 144. It's also where we got the base 12 clock from IIRC.

A cursory googling says that clocks having 12 hours comes from Egyptian sundials, which were divided into 12 parts. However, these "hours" weren't a defined length, and changed with the seasons, until the Greeks decided that they needed to be a defined length in order to be useful for calculations, which was the system used when mechanical clocks became possible in the 14th century.

You're going to have to ask your rabbi about this one.

thuum.org/
wouldn't be worth it to learn because you don't get any special powers, you just end up looking like an autismo

1. A script is not a language
2. It is Ogham tier

you inspired me

I tried telling him that, and he writes his shit in perfect penmanship to show that it's perfectly discernible, but as soon as you get into normal writing, people cut corners to get done faster yet still maintain legibility. You can't do that with this because everything's just one stroke or tiny nick away from being a completely different glyph. There's nothing interesting or unique about it, there's no flow or ability to put flourishing on the glyphs or as I said before, it'll be ambiguous as fuck.

nice

Doesn't help his case since he shows it was written with a brush, but wouldn't it make more sense for it to be like cuneiform? If the letters were being etched instead of scrawled those rigid shapes would make a lot more sense.

You may or may not have noticed that he deleted his posts out of fear of someone plagirising his 'alphabet' and I am just teasing him in the hopes that he might come back and sperg out for the general amusement of all. Looks like his paranoia is even greater than I thought since he went and deleted the post saying that he deleted his other posts.

thanks

But I Can write it quickly, you know. Writing the letters just had the right mix of downward and rightward momentum to make writing them in quick succession a feasible task. It even lent itself well to a liner brush and india ink imo, as I demonstrated above.

Having beaten the Madarame boss in Persona 5 just two days ago, I honestly just found this whole situation as massively ironic tbh. I'm aware that the Berne Convention and its protections exist, but still, I'm merely just a college student that's studying how to do animation in video game development. I've have had my ideas stolen before (by a particular dev I know and hate irl), so please excuse my sketchiness when it comes to sharing them.

never show the whole thing, only show a small part that gives a taste then you dipshit

While based in part on both English and Japanese, the way Melnics handles intentionally leaves either the written form or spoken form feeling more foreign to the player (depending on what they're more fluent with):
Spoken Melnics returns as the "Long Dau" tongue in both Tales of Xillia games, as Wingull lapses into his native tongue whenever under the affect of his Booster.

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This reminds of once when I figured out that every single arabic letter (except for K you little fucker!) can be made from parts of a circle bisected by a line (a bit like an uppercase theta) and then suitably rotated.

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Reminds me of Elian script.

Might serve as an inspiration to people considering making their own script.

ccelian.com/ElianScriptFull.html

I like to make loss out of custom glyphs.

They aren't fictional laumguages, they're character sets for English. Huge difference.

how the fuck does D'ni numerals remind you of elian script?
t. memorized elian script

Imbecile.

Truly interesting

You can count to 36 (in base 10) in base six on your hands. The decimal system is commie bullshit that's holding the human race back.

Ive had this page loaded up the whole time so I havent noticed. What a fucking faggot

Same here, is he really that sacred of his Old Hylian ripoff? It looks like the Japanese stuff from A Link to the Past

Looks like arabic chickenscratch.

PSO2.

Amazing.

I'm telling you, user, there's a commie conspiracy afoot.

communism is gay. the proof is right before us.

Damn gommies :DDDDDDD

whoops, wrong thread.

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Well, I suppose the PS1-era resolution doesn't help (though Eternia on the whole had some nice spriting in general). Apparently these are better renders of the characters.

Cuneiform's not etched, you write it by pressing a reed stylus into clay.
youtu.be/HbZ2asfyHcA

Sun and Moon use their own cipher, albeit no one's managed to rip the font directly yet.
Assuming there's anything to rip…
They even snuck in the cipher from the anime in the Hall of Fame. A more subtle encroachment of the anime, if you ask me.
Given they started using it in Gen V, it could be an implication that Alola and Unova are both part of an American analogue, much like how Alola's route signs resemble interstate signs, but that's me grasping at straws.

gzegh'd
A problem a lot of the languages have, besides being a letter:letter Cypher of English, is the glyphs being overly complex.

Last one looks like kanamoji.

If you're interested in conlangs there is a game, Sethian, which is based around deciphering a mostly unknown language from a dead civilization. From what I remember, the game is a little underwhelming, but it was interesting enough while I was playing it.

Base 30 is better than base 12 as the prime factorization of 30 is 2*3*5 while 12's is 2*2*3 (10's is 2*5) which means there are less non zero terminating fractions in base 30 than there are in base 12. You can also still count in base 30 with your hands by counting the bones on each finger including the thumb.

when is gust gonna start making old school rpgs again?

Here's the thing: writing systems have a historical trend of starting off as pictograms (drawings resembling what they signify) and/or ideograms (drawings representing a concept), shifting into logograms (characters representing a word or phrase; moonrunes), then simplifying into phonograms (characters representing a sound).
From there, phonographic writing systems tend to be consonantal or syllabic, i.e. abjads (Arabic, (((Aramaic)))), abudigas (Devanagari and related Pajeetrunes), and syllabaries (Moonrunes, kanji aside; Mayan, Cuneiform).
Alphabets are pretty rare, and relatively more recent.
The exact look they get is purely dependent on what medium is used to write them, whether they're chiseled or pressed into clay, carved into wood, drawn with a brush, or written on paper. It's why Nordic runes have an angular shape where the Greek and the modern Roman alphabets don't, and why those can afford to have a cursive form.
Then there's the simple fact people will cut corners where they can if it'll still get the point across with less effort.

In short, a "natural"-looking conscript should attempt to simulate the culmination of centuries of a bunch of recurring stick drawings/cave paintings/stone carvings slowly getting simplified then getting passed around and adapted from civilization to civilization. Keyword being simulate, i.e. it just has to look that way. Actual lore ain't necessary if it's not integral to the game.

As a final note, the process can be as simple as making a quick drawing then going through a few iterations until you've got something easy to write.

Are you twelve? That takes less than a day of effort, all you have to do is make up symbols. It's the least interesting thing possible when it comes to makimg up a language. The only thing that is more boring is making a cipher for the Latin alphabet.
Try Tolkien's Elvish, it's a full fake language that is inspired by many real world languages but primarily Finnish.

theres nothing interesting about minor european countries

There's nothing interesting about your post.

k

Not everybody can be Tolkien and invent entire languages in their free time.

sorry i dont have any bestiality porn to post for you

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What's the point of circle jerking over some lazy ciphers that were made as a half-assed attempt at muh immersive lore by marketing cocksuckers? Usually threads like these are to discuss the best examples, not the ones you see in every other game.

It's a shame Dinosaur Planet didn't succeed.

Its also a shame its not good

CHINGCHONGWINGWONG GENERAL SCALES

Is this Loss?

hownu.ru

Doesn't even work as a two-way mapping because nothing maps from Dino to English Y.

Yesterday => Oojkohtuo => Eesterdae.

Some words are guessable, but some are ambiguous. Cite/City become the same word, so do Nance/Nancy, and tons of other words that end in e/y (like clemence/clemency, vibrance/vabrancy, and all the able/ably ones).

My quick count shows at least 771 ambiguous words:

$ paste -d ' ' /usr/share/dict/words

skabadoobadeebopbop GENERAL SCALES

It does say that on the page, but in the actual game it just uses the character 0 as y.

General Scales is Wodohuc Jsucoc

pronounced Whad-do-huck Jus-u-cock

His name is literally "what a fucking jew's cock"

in other words his own name is calling him a dick

bravo nintendo you're fucking magical.

You know my problem with fictional languages? They're always the same.
Real life languages can be extremely varied and bizarre. The exact thing I drew up here is gibberish, but it's what the old Irish writing system looked like before it moved to the Latin alphabet. Why don't more fictional languages be creative like this?

How would you even pronounce that? Just the same as O?

I also found 16 three-way conflicts with a quickly-hacked up Python script:

polygeny/polygene/polygyny
thyme/theme/thymy
fryer/freer/freyr
skye/skey/skee
dey/dye/dee
sellably/syllable/sellable
geraty/gyrate/gerate
monogeny/monogyny/monogene
epigyne/epigyny/epigene
ley/lye/lee
rhymy/rheme/rhyme
bey/bye/bee
teste/testy/tyste
dyne/deny/dene
see/sye/sey
wee/wey/wye

mappings = dict() for line in args.input: stripped = line.strip().lower() key = stripped.translate({ord('e'): '#', ord('y'): '#'}) if key not in mappings: mappings[key] = set() mappings[key].add(stripped) conflicts = [value for key, value in mappings.items() if len(value) > 2] print(len(conflicts)) for conflict in conflicts: print('/'.join(conflict))

Is this loss?

Only some listed:
zelda.gamepedia.com/Hylian_Language
teamico.wikia.com/wiki/Runic_language_used_in_Ico
witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_alphabet (Note: Not the only Witcher language)
omniglot.com/conscripts/dni.htm
artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Hymmnos_Language
digimon.wikia.com/wiki/DigiCode
elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Alphabet
elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Alphabet
aselia.wikia.com/wiki/Melnics + pic-murasaki.dreamwidth.org/207037.html
I have noted the other languages posted as well, but decided to just post a few of them right here.

When it comes to making conlangs, what punctuation would you say be would be the most necessary to include? At the bare minimum, I mean. Looking over at NES text (which cuts down English punctuation to the barest of bare bones), it seems that English can get by just fine with only a handful of them. Like periods, question marks, exclamation marks, quotes, parenthesis, commas, etc.
I ask because some conlangs spend so much time on making solely the letters, that they forego doing anything special for the punctuation.

No

Here is my attempt from about a year ago at making a writing system if I ever made some low-bit indie darling trash.
Started as fucking around with trigrams.
which is not enough and even with some modifyer is only 18.
Then what is basically greek geomancy.
Which with a modifyer is 32 is that is too many.
And instead of just going
Because that looked really bad to me I went with
Each taking up a 5x5 pixel square.
The dubs would all be vowels with the 26th unique pair being the letter Y.
Was thinking about just removing the letter K and having C also work as K but then shit like Kick would be Cicc and that didn't sit right with me.

Might as well add this one too: artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Emotional_Song_Pact

warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Corpus_Language
warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Grineer_Language
warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Language

not quite a language but iji did have a bit in it about how the ayy lamos counted using their knuckles and that they thought we we dumb because we used base 10

It inspired me

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I find the lowercase-capital binary system to be oppressive, divisive, confusing, and an impediment to language in the 21st century, so I have created a set of non-binary trans-case letters.

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There are people who would unironically say that and use that.
I laffed.

THIS AIN'T ANGLISH!

The concept of three level case sounds fun. How would it work?

A smallcase for normal text, mayuscule for the starting letter, name minuscule for the first letter of a middle-of-the-phrase Name, and a name mayuscule for the start of the phrase Name.

Gondegs?

that would have been halfway funny 3 years ago

I swear I saw a font that combined both upper and lower case glyphs, but Google ain't giving me results…

Found it:
drive.google.com/file/d/0B43Ot_cY-WYoakoyS0tmZl9vTjA/view

Metroid Prime 2 had a 3D language for the Luminoth.

I guess that'd be useful.
If you're a 4d being with 3d eyes, that is.

Well wait, aren't our eyes 3D?

To kinda elaborate, we get a 3d image projected on a 2d retina, whereas this would be a 4d image projected on a 3d retina.

Not really a language, it's just a code, I wish Nintendo would hire linguistics professors to write an actual Hylian language with it's own unique syntax and then not detail it, see if fans can translate it.

Sorry in advance.

What a clusterfuck

We actually get two 2D images that are combined to give the perception of depth.
They should get 2 3D images to combine into a 4D image.

THEY FUCKING KNEW

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That's the idea, pretty much.

Absolute shit teir, even Skyrim tried harder.

An actual language written in a Latin script is 1000 times better than setting your font to windings and calling it a language.

Well nameless, Anglish is soothly another shape of English where only Anglo-Saxton words be.
It be a form of speech cleansing owing to the unsettled form of newfangled English.

Fuck Latinish speak, in the folksrike Anglish will be the only speak that has the green light for speaking.
I love it when namelesses do this kind of thing

Not writing but the old demon language or whatever spoken by Gaunter O Dimm at the end of hearts of stone is a mishmash of various existing languages, sounds cool

Fictional writing systems and languages are almost always a lazy ass transcript of latin, not to mention they also almost never have unique pronounciations or sounds, instead they are usually phonetically identical to english.
*At least that is the case whenever a western studio tried to oull it off*

The alien mathematics on the consoles in Rama had me scratching my head for a while when I was a kid, I hit upon the right symbols/answers after a while but didn't realise I was working out hex until I reinstalled it years later.

It's not just western studios. Zelda has gone through 3 or 4 """""languages""""" that are just writting either Japanese or English and then setting the font to wingdings.

Honestly, it's depressing how many games are completely outclassed in this department by even Halo, which apparently put effort into making an original phonemic/phonetic system for the Elite's language although half the sounds are impossible because of the way that their mouths are shaped, made their own lexical inventory, and bothered to change the grammar a little bit. (halopedia.org/Sangheili_(language)#Transliterated_Sangheili)

English does have a pretty good collection of sounds to work with though.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet_chart_for_English_dialects
Generally the basic sounds imo. But if I had to add a few more, I guess the way Norwegians pronounce some of their L's is kinda interesting. As too the "ts" sound that the Japanese use, as well as the rolling R sound of the Spaniards. That Scottish X in "loch" can go fuck itself though.

Norwegian L: m.youtube.com/watch?v=5FyfPIY7tKo

Not being a shithead and basically mandating people buy your fucking translation guides or wait a decade for someone to make a tool for your lazy obfuSCATED language

/ˈnɔɹmi/

God this is the most anglocentric thing i've ever read

I'm mostly just well-acquainted with the IPA sounds/letters of the English language than that of foreigners. Especially when I'm only accustomed to seeing English IPA transcriptions in online English dictionaries & using English-to-IPA converters.
I'm guessing you're a foreigner or something, since you might too have a preference for your own language. Considering it to have all the sounds you deem as basic, similar to how I deem English sounds as basic imo.

I'm a native English speaker of the Gen-Am dialect. The reason I "deem" those sounds to be basic is because of how statistically common they are in the world's languages, not based on any particular language that I do or don't speak. web.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/upsid_info.html

web.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/upsid_segment_freq.html
So in your opinion, should you create a fictional language that's comprised of these common sounds, at what percentage (% of 451
languages) would you consider the cutoff point to be?

As for me personally, I'm not too interested in how uncommon or common a sound is tbh. I would just make up my fictional vidya language with sounds I can actually pronounce and/or find interesting. Which largely happens to be just English sounds that are considered basic to most Americans. Not really concerning myself with foreign sounds that much, save for a few.

Nigger I never talked about what you should or shouldn't do in a fantasy language; all I said was that you calling English phonology "basic" is retarded and based entirely in the fact that it's what you're used to.

Filthy coonlover, go on about how niggers destroying the language should be seen as the shrine of progress because the way they talk coincides with a russian dialect.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you schizophrenic? What have I said that could possibly allow you to do the mental gymnastics necessary to (incorrectly) assume my positions AAVE or 'progress'?

Oh sorry wrong thread

It's still a pain in the ass to make curvy lines.

Alright then. If you consider English phonology as not "basic" enough, then you must at least have another real world language in mind. Seeing as how you're giving me so much shit about this. Another language with phonology that's closer akin to that word, "basic", and is more comprised of common sounds (moreso than English phonology, I mean) from those listed on that website you posted.

A) your assertion "You don't think English phonology is basic, therefore you must be basing your definition of basic off of a different, specific language" is a non-sequitor. I've already said that my definition of basic is based on cross-linguistic trends, not any one particular language, and I doubt that there is any language with perfectly average phonology, but there are plenty with more average phonologies than that of English.
That said, I would consider Latin, Spanish, and Japanese to all be much more phonologically average than English.

Still beating at it you fucking niggerlover?

And I quote

First off, an user above was wondering why so many conlangs were merely ciphers of English. Besides being a popular language worldwide, I responded to him and told him that its phonology was actually a good starting point to use in creating conlangs. Seeing as how it had a pretty good collection of sounds to work with as a template. Generally consisting of basic sounds one could implement imo. And then you came into the picture and found that statement very anglocentric, resulting in a pointless discussion on English phonology not being "basic" enough for you. Pointless because in the end, you yourself admit that you doubt any language would even have perfectly average phonology (ultimately arguing for the sake of arguing), whereas my original statement was mostly just concerned with pointing out why English could be considered a great starting point.

And while I may not speak Latin myself, I am familiar with both Japanese and Spanish. The Japanese may have the "ts" sound, but they're not too big on using L, V, or Ng very much. In addition to being quite rigid in its digraphs' pronunciation. And the only things that Spanish have over English are that Ñ sound and maybe that rolling R sound. I'm fluent in hearing/understanding Spanish but not speaking/writing it, so I'm obviously going to consider English more basic imo than Spanish.

Any phonology can be a good starting point to make a conlang if you're going to change it so that statement means nothing; it's also besides the point because the question was about English ciphers and and 'scripts' that are just English fonts, and thus are exactly the same as English.
What is or isn't a "good" collections of sounds is mostly arbitrary. But the thing is that English phonology is not "basic" by any definition of the word; it's not that English phonology isn't basic "enough for me", it's that it is in no way basic at all unless your definition of basic is "similar to what I'm used to" and what you're used to is "English", but if that is what you meant then your entire post can be rewritten "english is good cause it's like english", which is also nonsubstantive.
The thing about basing something off of English is that it is so unique and that any conlang based off of it will just sound like English gibberish, so unless you want a conlang that makes people think of English, it is objectively not a good starting point.
Also,

Why don't we make our own language? Let's make some letters and compile them as a font package. Here are my first two letters. Pronunciation of the top letter would be like la and the bottom letter would be pronounced like s.

gas yourself you lazy normie.

Fuck I really should go to sleep

When I say language I mean an actual fucking language. I just feel like we need to create some letters to associate pronunciation with. The language isn't going to be completely original; it'll be a syntactic derivative of an existing one.

I don't even care if it's bait anymore

Spurdoposting is already a thing

A script is the least important part of a language. Languages change orthography all the time.
You need to start with the real important questions.
Will it be Isolating, Analytic, Fusional, or Agglutinative? (or maybe even polysynthetic?)
What will it's phonemic inventory be like? What allophonic patterns does it have? What are the phonotactics like?

Well, considering that Holla Forums is an English-speaking board, it should be analytic in structure to reach maximum adoption rate. You are clearly more well-versed in linguistics than I am, so what are your thoughts as to how this should be designed?

I don't know. Would an anonlang really need a phonetic realization, and I would imagine that the contexts where one could actually speak such a language would be insignificant compared to contexts where one would read and write it. In this such case deciding on a script could be a substitute for the lack of phonetics.

It would be smart to limit the language to the English alphabet seeing as most anons here can speak English and installing a custom font and keyboard just to send texts to one another would be really inconvenient but excluding (if that's something you desire).

I hate when the "language" is just a cypher. If all they did is replace the characters in one real-world language then it's just a waste of time.

adoption rate is boring. You need to have your goal set before you start. If you're trying to make a fantasy language then you should think about what kind of associations you want to make. If you're making an auxiliary language then you need to think about what pragmatic qualities you want it to have.
Are we trying to make it easy to adopt or are we making a le secret code for le secret club?
Do we want it to be regular or chaotic? Easy or difficult?
Is the Idea to make a good language or a fun language?

I see your point, but I would say it's better to have a phonetic realization than, partly just in case you ever need it, partly to make it more unique, and partly because having a being able to associate words with sounds makes them easier to learn.
I would also say that perhaps we should deliberately include characters that aren't on a standard English keyboard to raise the barrier to entry: if you aren't tech-savvy enough to set your keyboard to English-International, should you even really be here?

languages) would you consider the cutoff point to be? web.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/upsid_segment_freq.html

How should we decide on what phones to pick; will it be natural, random, or based on some goal? In any case I vote for the inclusion of the velar or uvular ejective fricative because they sound really weird to me and are fun sounds to make.

So since creating a language is an arduous task, I feel that we should look at languages like Esperanto for inspiration because it's construction is documented from the very beginning.

It's an imageboard, of course the language is going to have to be at least a little fun and secret club-y. Our main goal, however, is for comprehension in its early stages. The language should evolve in complexity over time, becoming more synthetic.

If you wanted a suggestion of a better starting point why didn't you say so?
If you want your language to evoke associations with a real world language or two, then you should start with a mixture of those two. If you don't you don't have any particular language in mind to base it off of, you should start wtih the vowels /i/ /u/ /e/ /o/ /a/ and the consonants /m/ /f/ /p/ /n/ /s/ /t/ /k/ /h/, and one of either the voiced or aspirated versions of the above obstruents (Holla Forums Holla Forums /z/ /d/ /g/ or /fʰ/ /pʰ/ /sʰ/ /tʰ/ /kʰ/) and then start adding, removing, and substituting to your liking.
Sorry btw, I didn't understand that to be a request for an alternative.

You could pick a real language to base it on and then let people roll to change it. You could have people roll to select which features are distinctive (i.e. which places of articulation it has, which manners, voiced/voiceless distinction, aspirated/unaspirated distinction, etc.) You could just make it a fucking free for all and say 'everyone with a 7 can add or remove one phoneme'
Or you could argue about it and until people agree on what to do.
I don't know what will work best, I've never crowd sourced a conlang before.

Esperanto a shit.
Also languages don't evolve that quickly, unless you're talking about releasing updates to the language and having h8speech v2, v3, etc., in which case I don't know how well that will or won't work.

hehehe vi ne estas falsa
t. esperantisto kiu ne finis la duolinga kurso

If it has an exploding battery, we're good to go.

Fucking finally. Thank you.
You seemed pretty knowledgeable on the subject, but trying to get your personal opinions on the matter was unusually difficult. Still though, I'll be sure to keep your suggestions in mind. (I'm at that phase where I'm picking out which sounds to go for in my conlang.)

[I personally just hate it when people solely just dislike something, but don't offer any better alternatives or suggestions for me to consider. It honestly makes me feel like I'm wasting my time in arguing with them with absolutely nothing to gain.]

The exact shape a letter or character can take is wholly dependent on the surface and medium used.
Things like pencils and brushes on paper are going to allow for a greater variety of strokes versus a knife or stick against wood or clay.
That's why runes and stuff like cuneiform are so angular.

Mind if I recommend some books and resources?
Mark Rosenfeld's got a few books on conlangs and worldbuilding:
zompist.com/kit.html
The guy who made Dothraki's also got a book and a YouTube channel that kinda elaborates on some stuff:
youtube.com/channel/UCgJSf-fmdfUsSlcr7A92-aA/videos
This vid on constructed scripts might help too:
youtube.com/watch?v=ab9tGLyJBRw

Found a PDF of the first book. No luck with anything else so far, but there's a bunch of world building stuff in this thread:
endchan.xyz/tg/res/94.html

Is the effort of creating a language real, or just ideaguying?

Is that second book cover a bunch of Garry's Mod screenshots

I have the other books. Last one is in epub and too large to upload, so it's on vola once it's done downloading.

Geez, I haven't been there in a while. I'm surprised it's still alive.

And here's the direct download for the last book if anyone wants to read it.
volafile.org/get/s_vMaYQ5LCck/David J. Peterson-The Art of Language Invention_ From Horse-Lords to Dark Elves, the Words Behind World-Building-Penguin Books (2015).epub

It's not cyrilic. It's Croatian glagolitic script.

Get out of the way you plebs.

Yes.

I remembered there was this Japanese guy who studies and learns to speak all kinds of Constructed or dead languages.

It's not vidya but still's interesting.
Unspell

These are some interesting resources. Thanks, I've been interested in Constructed Languages through a mix of reading Outsider, as well as being a longtime fan of Crest/Banner of the Stars.

English needs like an Upper Upper case, to implying yelling extra loud.
Someone invent the L O U D letters.

I concur

You can always just use emojis.

I was going to post this a yesterday but I got caught up in real life. This what I imagine an 8ch language's phonology to be like. It's basically German because lol nazis with a few click consonants thrown in because lol niggers and some extra bullshit thrown in just to intentionally make it more difficult.

also I threw in a uvular ejective affricate by request

I just want to say that I love that there are other people on Holla Forums autistic enough to be interested in phonetics and other linguistic nerd shit. I'm happy that I'm not the only one here who grew up loving maps and alphabets and shit.
You are all great, and I love you.

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The contrast is too low. I would say reduce the number of phonemes.

For the most part I would say that was the point, and that while there are a lot of phonemes they are all as distinct from their closest counterpart as they would be in the a typical natural language. The exception is that I would be okay with getting rid of the voiced palatal and glottal fricatives and the palatal lateral and nasal, merging the voiceless palatal and velar fricatives, and maybe getting rid of the low-central vowels.

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Sorry to burst your bubble but ц and щ aren't fictional.

Кирилица ще живее.

Meant it for (you).

If no one has any further objections or suggestions then we can move onto phonotactics. In keeping with the trend of basing the language around prominent influences on image boards, how about something like the Japanese language: (ʔ)(C)(j)V(ː); if we want it to be harder we can stick in a bunch of extre consonants for obnoxiously long clusters.

A high propensity to allow large clusters of voiceless obstruents, especially sibilants is tied to how ugly people tend to think a language is. For example, German has the syllable structure: (s/ʃ)|(C)(C)|V(X)|(C)|(C)(C) (bars separate parts of the syllable), it includes three positions that are exclusively set aside for these sounds exclusively: one in a pre-coda that can be /s/ or /ʃ/, and two in the post coda that can be any fortis coronal (alveolar, dental, or palatal), as well as allowing up to one more in the onset (any two consonants ordered by ascending sonority), and one in the coda (any one consonant that is less sonorous than the last part of the nucleus), allowing a maximum cross-syllable cluster of 5 fortis obstruents, which sounds very 'harsh'.
I imagine an Holla Forums language would have a reputation for sounding like blackspeech, so my proposal would be really similar to what german already has, maybe (C)|(C)(C)|V(X)|(C)|(C)(C), where
>The onset contains up to two of any consonants in increasing sonority (fortis < lenis < sonorant)
This is basically just german but with the pre-onset opened up to more sounds

Why aren't real life languages used in games as fantasy languages? I can think of at least one language that could work well for a game.

Devs think that ciphering English and slapping wingdings over it is more creative and less lazy than using another real language.

Korean works as a space alien language.

Devolp it and then we all can use it.

You are just building german again.

Fair criticism. I don't actually want to design the whole thing myself. I guess what I was trying to say is that I think an Holla Forums language should sound harsh, that one of the key features in making a language harsh is long clusters of voiceless obstruents, especially sibilants, and that german offers a good example of how to do that (setting aside spaces specifically for those sounds, and allowing them in as part of other clusters as well). But I am also definitely open to modifications.
An alternative suggestion I would give would be to start with the Georgian syllable structure (C)8VC, and section off parts of the onset for harsh sounds, maybe something like
Where K is a click, F is an fortis coronal, and the Cs are any consonants where in the onset they are either more sonorous than or equally sonorous as the proceeding sound

I certainly expect you people decline these manners!
yes I made sure that was almost entirely latin-derived

It's nothing but the work under the inflood of learned men in their bookhalls and loresteads thinking that what the Olden Römish Rike did was the best! If we threw away the Germanish words and roots from our speak, we should just speak Latin then.

Can you post some more, please ?

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I like it a lot. Can you post all the signs or an alphabet- if you have ?>>14016181

I like it a lot. Can you post more signs or an alphabet ?

All the ones I have at the moment.

reminds me of the Luminoth text.

They would make cubes of information and what they had to say was by viewing it from every angle. Trouble is figuring out what angle you're supposed to start from.

I've seen blacks reading and writing in video games. That's pretty mythical.

by your logic, we might as well just speak proto-germanic dialects.
in all seriousness, is there any real reason to try to excise latin besides "muh germanic aryan white heritage"?

It makes English marginally easier to learn. An example that I can think of is the word
vs

Translate is obtuse unless you've either memorized what the word means or know what each part means from Latin.
Overset would be easier for a person to infer meaning from because it has 2 English words smashed together.

I just use English without Latin as a kind of thought experiment, not as

Okay, so that's your language's alphabet - where is the rest of the language? What about syntax? Conjugations?

Glyphs are nifty.

(different user)

What kind of Anglish alphabet do you prefer ? I usually refer to that one: A B C D Ð E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T Þ U V W X Y Z Æ

You should make an alphabet. Please, mind it for me would you ?

I stick to the orthography and alphabet of modern English, just because it's easier

so mysterious

I will do it 4u

What is þ pronounced as?

"th" as in "thin"

I really like the idea of making hætsprikt. You should also post on the /tg/ thread for a better chance of devolping it and getting feedback.

I would remove the bloat of phonemes. There is little chance that all of them would be used in a regular enough basis as to justify their existance, and it is an unnecessary burden on the learner.

Should we get the roots from real languages or make them up?

So the Spanish z?

Sure, if you're talking about the Andalusian /z/.

I suppose this thread will have a sequel, won't it?

What would be the difference?

AFAIK certain parts of Spain pronounce /z/ as [z] and other parts pronounce /z/ as [θ]

thanks for the info on how others have done it, really helps out

there are no parts of spain that have /z/. some have /θ/ or /s/ but no variety of spanish has a voiced alveolar sibilant fricative, or any phonemic voiced fricative besides /ʝ/ for that matter.

Really? Huh, I guess I should have paid closer attention in high school.

Don't worry they probably never told you that anyway.

Here the goddess of happiness cries, And in this time this lullaby.
hir ðə 'gɑdəs ʌv 'hæpinəs kraɪz, ænd ɪn ðɪs taɪm ðɪs 'lʌlə,baɪ.

Sings her song of the dream she has, The sadness fills her eyes.
sɪŋz hɜr sɔŋ ʌv ðə drim ʃi hæz, ðə 'sædnəs fɪlz hɜr aɪz.

End of Love, Love is gone. No more dreams to dream about, so life is done.
ɛnd ʌv lʌv, lʌv ɪz gɔn. noʊ mɔr drimz tu drim ə'baʊt, soʊ laɪf ɪz dʌn.

If it's so, cut the thread, It's time to let it go.
ɪf ɪts soʊ, kʌt ðə θrɛd, ɪts taɪm tu lɛt ɪt goʊ.

Tears they flow to the thirst of the gods, The ocean's roars drowned out by rain.
tɛrz ðeɪ floʊ tu ðə θɜrst ʌv ðə gɑdz, ði 'oʊʃənz rɔrz draʊnd aʊt baɪ reɪn.

Blameless wolf carries on alone, The silence now surrounds him.
'bleɪmləs wʊlf 'kæriz ɑn ə'loʊn, ðə 'saɪləns naʊ sə'raʊndz hɪm.

Sooner than, dreaming ends, Morning of the dawn will bring another day.
'sunər ðæn, 'drimɪŋ ɛndz, 'mɔrnɪŋ ʌv ðə dɔn wɪl brɪŋ ə'nʌðər deɪ.

Turn around, (and) you have found, A different place to dream.
tɜrn ə'raʊnd, (ænd) ju hæv faʊnd, ə 'dɪfərənt pleɪs tu drim.

tophonetics.com
The funny thing about IPA transcriptions is they honestly do look foreign enough already to anyone not familiar with the IPA.

Would custom glyphs for IPA be better as a written conlang for a game than just glyph'd English?

Where are your length markers user? Also
Protip, they've both merged with ə now and if you insist on not putting əs in stressed positions you're cucking to the brits.

It would be better but it's still pretty lazy.

You kinda read my mind there. I was considering the same thing just now: Custom glyphs for IPA letters.
Might be unrealistic as hell for a written language though. I can't imagine so many normal people wanting to learn so many vowels and consonants.

I just threw the lyrics into website, ttps://tophonetics.com , and left it at that. Quick and lazy results, nothing more.

Shekel Shillizen hired some kind of language or linguistic guy to create full learnable languages for all of their alien races: spoken, written, the whole deal. Kinda like that elfish language from Lord of the Rings.
It's cool and all, I suppose. I mean, it's the kind of thing I'd usually be really interested in, but coming from Sham Shitizen, it just feels like yet another procrastination and money-grubbing tactic rather than genuine care put into the shiny jpeg auction house simulator. Every now and then I see one of these fucking videos pop up, and rather than interest all I can think of is "don't you fucks have better shit to be working on? like ANYTHING else?"

Embed related. Make sure your anti-cringe encounter suit is zipped up tight.

I guess I haven't given them enough shekels to take the time to learn this shit.
Fucking cult.

It's just a bunch of runes.

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In retrospect, it kinda makes sense when you consider Mew's typically an elusive little shit.

laadanlanguage.wordpress.com/
reading about this conlang gave me an idea for the h8speech.
It could be focused on hate and rage, and tailored towards expressing both with more detail. It would still have words for other feelings, but they would be underrepresented.

Don't forget disgust.
I'll make the logo

?

It's a joke from Holla Forums, the Holla Forumsnicians come up with all kinds of software ideas, which they have the know-how to make, but never really move past the logo design stage.

I really would like the language being devolped

Me too tbh

how do we do to further devolpment?

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How will it be devolped user?
How will we devolp vocabulary and all the rules?
How will we incetivize anons to learn it?

n-nani

I think making it hard on purpose is a surefire way to make anons not want to learn it.

I agree, make it simpler to pronounce but more difficult in a different respect.

Linguistic snobbishness superiority. Love it.

1) deliberately to make it harder
2) the difference isn't actually that hard to hear. If Spanish can do it so can you.

Once you have phonotactics and infection settled you can write a script to create lexical items automatically.
The plan was to have a group discussion itt to crowdsource the design.
As for incentivising people, I have no ideas how you would do that regardless of what it looks like.

Then call them a cuck and tell them to go back to cuckchan

We all agree on this.

It should allow for the creation of new words from sticking two words together, like in english.

How should it work?
I think making it work in a similar way to english to help engage anons into learning it is a good idea, but things like declensions and five genders for diferent objects are luring.

Jej

Spanish has A E I O U, wich are diferentiated. I think that making it have more than five or six is pulling to much. It would only work if it was only a written language, in wich case pronunciation wouldn't matter much.

If KAKEKIKE allows it, we could have threads dedicated to learning it as the nipponese learning threads.

Well in my opinion we'd have to make a romanization for learnability of exclusively the initial creators' sake.

Also, if we're going full speed ahead with this (which I'm down for, shit man I love conlanging), we should probably make a board for it instead of sniffing through Holla Forums for new threads. Just to be organized.

I like
wew that might be too many

hell yeah

I mean we don't have to but it's an idea

Pah. Learning things like cases and moods and tenses and whatnot that aren't used in IE languages shouldn't be ``that`` hard.

inb4 "lol you don't know how to italics go back to cuckchan kike"

I am not a language fag and have no idea what you guys are talking mostly but I remember some of how genders work from latin class about but one of the genders should be normalfag, and normalfag things like social groups would have that gender

I'm interested in it too. If someone makes a board for it, post it here.
Also I think he meant script as in a computer script, not writing script.

How's /chanlang/ sound?
also i've never made a board before so excuse my autism

Should it be agglutinative?

There needs to be a name.
Maybe, are we trying to keep this Holla Forums only or are other imageboards involved? chanlang seems like a generic, all -chan language. If we are going for 8ch only, I like the sound of h8speech.
An idea: Everything is in all-caps to make it look angrier.

Using IPA symbols and Cyrillic ones in combination with latin script to make the alphabet sounds like a good idea. It should look rough but also pleasing to the eye, so using mainly angular letters with a minority of curved ones would be a good idea. Customizing a keyboard isn't that hard.

When I said Spanish can do it I meant /j/-/ʝ/.
But for vowels that's about as many as German or English has so it should be fine.

A computer script, as in a small sequential computer program.

Before anyone starts talking about genders please remember that in linguistics gender means "kind", and refers to any classification of verbs into groups. Gender systems often have distinction related to human sex, but animate/inanimate is the second most common. There is at least one language that has over 50 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_type_of_grammatical_genders

I prefer h8speech, personally.

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What about

I too like h8speech.

>>>/h8s/

If we're going to have a gender system that reflects sex, I think we are obligated to use it as an opportunity to be offensive. I had some ideas like

I like the way you think
we should have masculine/inanimate/weak masculine for when we shittalk, it can be built in to the language as a way to call each-other faggots

Then

Masculine animate strong is the default gender.

So for things in the normalfag gender would end in [-fæg] or something.

Maybe /-fæg/ could be just a regular agentive or a personal demonym, like someone who farms would be a farmfag, and someone from Greece would be a Greecefag.

That's cool also.

bump

This may help when creating words for the lang

zompist.com/gen.html

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New thread on >>>/h8s/ (>>>/h8s/54/).
We're getting all our goals set straight before we continue to avoid squabbling forever over it. If you want to discuss it and you aren't on /h8s/ already please come and do so.

you can argue that every other unit of measurement is arbitrary, but time isn't. It reflects natural astronomical cycles

Except for some reason they didn't put any proper nouns through the cipher which was jarring.

Skip to 1:55

Natural cycles which by their very nature are not 100% uniform and are the reason we have to jury-rig shit like leap seconds in to our measurements to keep things consistent. Or shit like how the Romans use to change the length of an hour to compensate for shorter days in the winter and longer days in the summer.

Even if time is based on something concrete the way we chose to measure it is still arbitrary.

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>Albert Ein(((stein)))
:thinking:

He was a jew.

Every time

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