Cuphead thread

archive.is/joupw


It's all right there (>>13894296 >>13894299 >>13894311 ). You could just as easily quote the specifics and respond to them, but even though I went all out of my fucking way to list arguments through examples, you handwave everything away in the most blatant way possible. It's right there, it's right fucking there, and I do not give a single shit how short you want me to keep it because I do believe everything what I said before to be essential in breaking down to how the bosses work.
As opposed to all the time you spent in this thread up to now? As opposed to the dozen replies made over the course of several days? And only now you call quits? Get fucking real.
Yes, but not wildly impossible RNG. Nor are that many things actually determined by RNG, some do have a pattern. I have found no such RNG-induced impossible situations, and up until now you have only once or twice made a specific case or posted some evidence to suggest this (more that the RNG keeps you more alive, actually). On the other hand I gave a detailed breakdown for the first two isles for why I did not believe this to be the case, but you responded with a mere 'didn't read lol' in order to get away with not having your notions of Cuphead's RNG challenged.
You have never even considered how different types of attacks influence jump timing, player positioning, and several other key player skills. I should instead ask you how Cuphead doesn't challenge you on these aspects, the one line of thought you seemingly refuse to entertain. How do you even suppose other run 'n guns with less RNG challenge you?
You're partially right, but mostly for the wrong reasons. The problem with your line of reasoning here is that you determine the depth of a mechanic by how hard it is to execute. And parrying is a mechanic mostly dependent on simply getting the timing and jumping right. Essentially, you just press A mid-air at the right time, which does sound incredibly simple. However, when you're trying to slap pinks during Cagey Carnation with chompers flying around everywhere getting in your way or trying to slap pink bars during Phantom Express while Mr Skellington is trying to whack you, you won't find yourself being able to slap those pinks as easily, you can't slap as easily here without taking damage. Your ability to slap here is being challenged because you can't do it as easily anymore. You might think it easy to deal with, but the fact remains that it is being challenged. I could also say that parrying in MGR is just a matter of pushing the stick forward at the right time, but we both know that's a blatant oversimplification.

Now, if you said that the aforementioned examples are outliers and that the game doesn't test you on your parrying enough, then I'd agree. A lot of pinks in the game are indeed too easy to slap. But that should also mean the potential definitely doesn't exist, and that it's not like the parry mechanic itself is inherently flawed as you continuously seem to suggest. You suggested more slappable types for more depth, which admittably would be cool, but how would they make the game deeper? It's not as self-evident as you think. For starters, you've never brought up how your suggestions are supposed to be implemented. It's cool and all, but if these elements are barely used and in the same way over and over, then they only add breadth instead of depth. You get more stuff to deal with, but then you'd also always deal with it in the same way over and over.

Throwing more shit in a game doesn't make it deeper, as recent open-world games should make obvious. Once again, it's about how you use existing mechanics that defines depth, not the amount you have. And then you'll argue that having more mechanics definitely will increase the potential depth, but in the case of Cuphead there's only so much to tack on before it becomes something else entirely with its own potential issues. I'm not going to make another strawman here that you'll suggest anything not on par with Dorf Fort's variables and possibilities will always be inferior compared to DF, because not everyone wants their favourite game to be like DF. Else DF would be the most perfect game to have ever existed based on its depth alone, but that's not entirely true either if you ask most people. But everything what's simulated in DF would be pointless if it didn't affect the gameplay in one way or another.

Other urls found in this thread:

8agdg.wikidot.com/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

There's nothing inherently wrong with simplicity, not everything needs to be complex in order to be deep or good (or even fun), but it should at least be much harder to master than it is to learn. See how despite all the cool powers and shit they give you in Dishonored, the game completely fails to challenge your use in any of them. Though if you think there's something wrong with simplicity, you might also as well make the case for why Tetris might be a mediocre shallow game. After all, doesn't the RNG which determines what blocks you get in Tetris have the same issues as in Cuphead, which completely prevents the game from being taken seriously in a competitive manner due to the completely unbalanced nature of the difficulty in the game despite the already-existing competitive Tetris scene?

To bring this back to Cuphead, and to point out again what you seem to have completely missed from the Mark Brown video (whose title says it's about how you are challenged, rather than the telegraphing involved, as you somehow seemed to get from the video), it challenges your ability to jump and shoot by having projectiles which move in all kinds of patterns, by having the boss move over the screen, by adding in popcorn enemies, to increase the amount of killable threats, by environmental hazards preventing you from jumping everywhere, by largely telegraphed area of denial attacks, and limited lanes preventing you from getting a clear shot on the boss, on top of adding in a dose of RNG to put the emphasis more on reflexive reactions than memorization and trial 'n error. That's only a fraction of how it challenges you to make the best use of the game mechanics, and I don't believe that the ensuing difficulty is affected too much by the RNG.
And I've just before stated how I found to be the difficulty within phases to be mostly consistent in the presence of RNG.
>Ok fucking lol. The level design in Doom is it's worst aspect about it by far.
What? No seriously, what? You can't just talk shit about Doom like that without explaining yourself.
If you're really done then you shouldn't have posted at all and left things on such loose ends. I'd also have loved for this to be over up until your repeated 'bad RNG' criticism got to meme levels and the blatant handwaving away of my breakdown of the RNG in Cuphead drove me up the fucking wall.
You have planted the seeds of doubt in my mind and made me reconsider my thoughts on Cuphead heavily, making me reconsider on what I thought was good about the game and what could have been done better, which wouldn't have happened if there was almost nobody to challenge my viewpoints about it and made me consider others. I have long tried to start a deeper discussion about Cuphead too, here on Holla Forums and other parts of the internet, but the discussions would end long before they got anywhere meaningful. I'm actually grateful you lasted with me for this long (someone actually explaining their viewpoints on Holla Forums, what a rarity), else I'd just have to stick with my own original thoughts about the game which were really more simplistic and flawed. Hence my annoyance with this bullshit you just pulled. You'd really have to just shitpost at me or ignore me to get me to stop posting, or get to a point where we both agree this isn't going anywhere.

Reminder that they cucked out and censored nigger devil

Do you really expect me to read all that shit about a game that's been discussed to death?

Holy shit please kill yourself, and after that someone tell me what the fuck was the patch I downloaded last night

What is up with this Souls tier autism? Its just a cartoony run 'n' gun, not some existentialist writing.

what the fuck is this autism

...

That's not a talk, that's an autistic monologue.

Was this text machine-made?

two autists met each other in a cuphead thread, they are still going at it.

That aside you're still a double nigger that fucked up post linking and started a new thread just to bitch in a new one.

Cuphead is a fun game. Most fun I had this year.

We all know it was a cut boss.

You don't play many games, don't ya?

As a member of the neurotypical community I find this offensive.

I play a lot of video games.

Let the autist have their fun. I don't see you fags complaining in the morrowimf or NV threads about autists throwning walls of text at each other.


Name a better game to come out this year. I found nioh to be better, but that's just my opinion.

Do they start entire threads with walls of text and fucked up links like nigger OP?

Yes, look at the most recent NV thread.

kys

I think someone asked in the previous thread what the newest update contained, here's from the Steam page:

• Fixed various freezes caused by controller disconnection/reconnection
• Fixed infinite controller rumble bug
• Fixed various freezes and soft-locks and crashes
• Improvements to saving and loading
• No longer possible to create a Mugman army.
• Fixed rapid-weapon-swap damage glitch
• Slight charge weapon damage reduction
• Charge weapon charge is now maintained during parry
• Now possible to unequip secondary weapon, Super, and Charm from equipment menu (Press "Y" to unequip)
• Mr. Chimes no longer gets stuck or goes off-screen
• King Dice’s Start Over square will now only trigger once per attempt
• Player 2 now appears in the King Dice board after being revived at the end of a mini-boss level
• Dice Palace score now properly resets when retrying the level
• Fixed improper hit boxes on the Devil's snake attack
• Fixed Devil's goat attack so it hits ducking players
• Elevator on Rugged Ridge no longer locks if Player 1 dies
• A+ grade now possible on Funfair Fever and Treetop Trouble
• No longer possible to damage bosses that are off-screen
• Fixed rare crash when parrying on Carnival Kerfuffle
• Fixed Roundabout shots not coming back on screen on select stages
• Baroness Von Bon Bon death results now properly displays progress on phase 3
• Dr. Kahl's Robot death results now properly displays progress on phase 1
• Fixed various minor collision bugs
• Various art and animation polish
• Minor sound effect bug fixes and polish
• Added spooky Mausoleum announcer
• Touch fuzzy, get a little dizzy

Basically the weapon switching glitch has been fixed, Charge Shot has been finally nerfed (on top of the early release during a dash being fixed), and I guess being able to duck under the Devil's goat attack turned out to be a bug after all?


Nigger Devil got cut out for probably other reasons, not censored, probably because its design was too boring like that one other big bomb guy in one of the beta screenshots who never appears in the game. You also never see that attack or background in the game to begin with, if it was truly censored they wouldn't have removed every asset involved. Having these kind of ridiculous grudges for games you evidently don't care about is just silly.


Nex Machina

Cuphead's a bit edgy, user. He gambles and drinks alcohol despite being underage and beats up people who look at him funny.

Super Mario Odyssey
Nearly a Tomato
Nioh

Cuphead as a whole is good due to the top-tier aesthetic and soundtrack, but the gameplay isn't anything special. Strip away the art and you've got a really casual Contra Hard Corps.

Rip speedrun

One time dubs are lies

My tastes are different from yours so you might not agree with this.

You mean you get the Japanese version?

I don't know, the only nip version of a genesis game I've played through is BK3.

Since Contra, Metal Slug, and that entire genre is pretty much dead now, it's nice to see someone picking up the slack.

SNK said that they are planning a new Metal Slug.

The JP version of Hard Corps actually had a lifebar where you could tank three hits before losing a live, whereas it was completely removed in the US version where you just die in one hit as you normally do in Contra, probably so people would rent it longer. That, and lifebars in Contra are fucking disgusting. Normally the JP versions of old games have the more balanced difficulty and no censorship, though Genesis games seem to be the exception to this.


Seriously? I've never heard of that. Will it be a mobile game?

The american version of Dynamite Headdy is garbage.

Oh and Bare Knuckle 3 is way better than SoR3

Well shit, you were right. That really is Cuphead.

Enough tism, post best girl.

Sure.

I didn't think it was a bug either, I did an air dash though when I beat the devil, I didn't think to duck until I saw other people do it and thought there were just multiple ways to dodge it.

BRB HARD

Kill yourself, kike. Quit trying to force your cancerous cuckchan meme here. Kike.

Kike.

Autism.

...

The goat and charge changes are major enough to make me reconsider slightly suggesting the game to other people, considering its other niche appeals. I liked learning that some bosses could be hit off screen once in a while too, it was a nice little bonus if you figured it out. Overall I think I'd probably suggest people pirate the unpatched version instead of the update, definitely before buying it.

Okay let's get down to business.
Quick, tell us your favorite boss, favorite weapons, favorite charms, favorite super, and favorite girl.

I really like the Root Pack just because they make such a great introductory boss, but I also really love Dr. Kahl and his robot. Spread + charge is my go to combo, but roundabout + lobber is great too, since you can swap between the quickly for huge dps. Favorite charm is either smoke dash for dodging or coffee for more super attacks. I know that the ghost super offers better potential dps if used properly, but I'm not very good at using it so I usually just use the beam. Cala Maria is the best girl and anyone who disagrees has the right to their own opinion and I respect that.

I thought the devs liked fun

Brineybeard I think his name was, the one on the ship.
peashooter and charge
Invincibility dash
The first one
I guess Cala, I can't really remember any of the other female bosses

I did Charge and Spread until i realized charge did more dps than even the spread at point blank, so I switched to Charge and Normal. I would use other shit depending on the boss though.
The only charm I used was health and my favorite boss was the Spooktown Express.

Baroness Von Bon Bon, had a lot of fun with her.
Can't say no to the Spreadshot and Charge.
Smoke Bomb all day and Coffee as a close second, everything else need not apply
The ghost, although it can be a liability, its a cool idea.
Cala Maria of course. Cagney Carnation as runner-up.

...

Or they got scared of Disney fucking their shit.

...

Everything else was terrible to me. Even smokescreen because having my character disappear made me misjudge the dash distance and die multiple times.

...

Coffee is always worthwhile since it gives you more opportunities to use your EX and super moves, increasing your overall damage output. Health just reduces how much damage you can do, and if you beat the boss without taking more than 2 hits, it's completely worthless.

So what's your cupsona, OP?

So which is it, am I better for using health or bad?

WOOOOOOOOOW

One would wonder why you even bought into that piece of shit.

Can everyone just admit that Gamegrumps has been shit since Jon left?

It's not funny. It's repetitive. $50 for a $5 shirt. Forced jokes. Sponsors nobody cares about.

This stuff is hot garbage.

Gamegrump turn to shit because your favorite screaming autist left, it was always bad, reddit.

Miss me with that 'unnecessarily cynical about video games' bullshit

Fights will just take longer since your damage will be lower and that might increase the chance of a mistake and you taking damage.

Gamegrumps isn't video games.

...

...

Let's plays aren't video games

Are they basically saying that they don't want to kill them seeing the "speech bubbles"?

They don't even talk about the game they're playing in their videos. All Game Grumps videos are just them socializing with each other while a video game happens to be present in their vicinity. And it got especially cringey with the new trend of them inviting celebrities who know absolutely nothing about games or have nothing to do with games just as an excuse to try and network with them.

Game Grumps fucking sucks and its fans are stupid as hell.

You're making a strong argument against splatoon.

What a shit way to start a thread.


Now that's more like it

I really liked Cagney Carnation. Everything from his music to his idle animation was perfection.
I like charge and round-about, but I also switch to chase on occasion when I'm trying to do S-rank on bosses that are usually above/below me.
Smoke bomb is objectively the best, but I like P. Sugar the best. It has saved my ass more than once.
The beam, but the ghost is fun to play with if you don't mind standing still for a few seconds.
Sally Stageplay, fight me.

Nice

Alrighty then.

PROGRAMMING EDITTIOn, guys I have finals and stuff so I can't really post, but here is the thread because nobody wanted to make it

Resources:

>>>/agdg/

>>>/vm/


Links:

>Wiki: 8agdg.wikidot.com/

>Beginner's guide: >>>/agdg/29080


Feel free to contribute to and update the wiki. We want it to contain information for current and previous games, as well as helpful beginner articles.

FUCK, sorry to write that in this thread, I made a mistake

...

What you don't like the six or so WOW threads a week?

...

That's actually worse than using a "journalist" to do viral marketing. Not nearly as bad as all these unironic tumblr art posters and furfags the game apparently created.


>>>/reddit/


Whoever made this needs to defenestrate themselves.

...

how do you do fellow cuphead player? :^]

Best girl is Grim Matchstick

Marche, is that you?

That's actually a pretty cool design.

Jesus fuck remember when I said I didn't want to get into a long debate from my very first post? This is fucking why.
You mean the ones that were actually less than a few posts long as apposed to your 6+ post autism? You knew what you had to do to continue the debate and you fucked it up. You get fucking real.
Nigger you know exactly why I posted to begin with. And I said multiple times that you should condense your posts and you give me this shit. I've told you maybe half a dozen times to do this and you're still refusing to do it. So fuck it. Don't bitch when people call your posts annoying and autistic. Because that's what they are. I put your 6 post long retort in word and got just under 5000 fucking words. You're retarded if you think I'm being squeamish by not replying to that shit.

Also here's a post in the archive to show what OP expects me to reply to in detail.

...

Anyone think Grim Matchstick would be easy to bully? haha

When you make a grand overarching generalizing statement such as 'all bosses in the game have/the game on the whole has bad RNG', then instead of nitpicking minor examples to prove your case, a stronger and more accurate argument would be to examine how RNG is applied to each boss in the game. And since you can't discuss the implementation of RNG and its influence on the difficulty without explaining how the attacks work and how they fit in the grander scheme of things, you end up with a list of how each boss works because bosses are all about their attacks. For the sake of quality, words couldn't be minced and details couldn't be omitted. What you got was a less-than-adequate – I never even got to Isle Three or Hell – breakdown of your claim and how I found it to actually apply to the bosses.

You can't just say something like 'all the levels are shit' and then name a few examples out of a present many, that'd just come off as generalizing or nitpicking and wouldn't paint an accurate image of the game. Unless you want to keep examples for your arguments quick and dirty. You may think I'm being autistic on purpose (not on purpose anyways) in order to overwhelm you with words, but in order for me to disprove such a small big claim I'd need to back it up with big evidence (as far as anecdotes go). I could say that you're wrong based on this one boss, but that'd be only one boss out of 19+ which you could easily dismiss as an outlier, and then we'd be nitpicking all day, which wouldn't get us anywhere really. Hence why that was the response you really deserved after clinging to your claim for so long. A list of examples with enclosed explanations. Here's this, here's why.

If you're really complaining about why making a grandiose statement about a game netted you a response the size of Jupiter, then you've quite frankly bitten off more than you can chew. You can't seriously expect people to keep it short when you wave these kind of generalizations around. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're just imposing these abstract restrictions on me because you know that in order to seriously challenge your claims a good deal of space is required, but quite frankly I don't give a shit how short you expect me to keep it, nor would I ever ask the same of you.


Maybe if you keep that shit up long enough you can escape the discussion by shifting the topic to having everyone point at me and laugh at how much of an autist I am. I don't think that anyone outside of us seriously cares about the discussion we're having though.

You absolutely can. And you can do it in less than 6 posts. My statement about the RNG isn't a generalized one. I made specific examples with multiple bosses. Just because I don't want to name every single boss in detail doesn't detract from that statement. And when you actually do look into every boss you just addressed the bosses with completely different perspectives to ignore the adamant issues in each one. Like I said before. The discussion is no longer a debate. It's a filibuster.
I can if the examples I present do a good job at describing the issues in the other levels. Bad level design can often have the same flaws that carry into other levels for example. Just as bad Pattern RNG can be used to describe most bosses because it's the same fundamental flaw that is easily presentable in many of the other bosses.
More like you can't condense your posts and need to fluff them in order to have a point. Every other word in that screencap I made could have been condensed to make it easier to digest and respond to. Describing EVERY move every boss has in the game in your own words is not a method of debating this shit. It brings up to many variables to reasonably measure and debate with.
And you can't seriously ask a person to break down 5000 words in fine detail. You're acting like the amount of detail and accuracy is necessary with this when you're not even thinking about the fact that somebody has to go through all that shit and make roughly 2 sentences out of 1 in order to fully describe the flaws to an argument. You're absolutely delusional if you think that this is how a debate should be held on this board, format excluded.
You already did that by making the thread to an already dead argument. At this point all you need to do is keep replying. Seriously though. You know full well what you're doing by pulling this wall of word shit and then chastising me for not wanting to earnestly reply to it.

Such as?
But in this case it is, because EVERY move is in some way related to the RNG you speak of.
About four, most of which are barely applicable to the rest of the game's 15 and more bosses. If suitable counter-examples exist, then it becomes hard to make definite generalizations.
When every paragraph or two brings up your original claim to examine whether it is actually applicable and conclude most of the time it mostly isn't, it is. If I was brief, you'd probably accuse me of overlooking some shit you don't care to explain (as you are doing right now anyways), but I guess explaining myself beyond condensed greentext lines didn't help either.

Hold on lemme pull out my 10,000 word essay real quick.
Where did I say EVERY move? More on that where did I say EVERY boss? You're forgetting that my statement was that a majority of the bosses had this issue and many of their moves had it as well. Just because I'm not willing to break down several hundred attack patterns doesn't mean my argument is somehow negated as false.
Much more. Go back to the archuve and re read my posts. I went into Queen Bee, Steamboat Willy, The robot, the dragon, the plant, the blue ball fucker and more.
Counter examples to what? I stated very clearly many attack patterns. And even then when I brought up Steamboat willy you were conveniantly ignoring how the squid was easier than any other attack because of (again) your dismissive "they're all equally difficult" rant which was empirically false. Keep in mind Steamboat willy alone took nearly half a post of space for 4 patterns to prepperly and definitively discuss. And you want me to reply to every single boss? This is why your arguments hold less ground. There's no depth to any of your points.
In your own words of course. If you actively spend time dismissing my claims as false because you're willing to twist your perception on them then there's no reason to respond genuinely to them.
I'm only accusing you of twisting your perception as to what's actually occurring in the game. And again, your posts are mostly fluff. You can still leave shit out even if you put 10,000 words into it.
Do you even know what the word condensed means? Seriously give it up. Nothing's going to result from this and I've told you that you should agree to disagree since the start. At this point all you can actually argue about is semantics and it's why this debate was doomed from the start. You're not willing to meet on any objective ground.

Yes, please do.
Can your constant repeating of the claim that the RNG in Cuphead is bad as anything but? If I didn't know anything about Cuphead, I'd certainly get that impression. Yet there's that one big wall 'o text which goes about that majority, the one you conveniently seem to constantly ignore. But if I'm hearing this right, there are bosses which don't suffer from RNG (or not as much)? Which ones would that be?
Not challenging a majority of the possible counter-examples claiming that your argument has not as much of a leg to stand on isn't? For me your refusal to get in any kind of depth (anymore) as to why Cuphead does on the whole suffer from poor implementation of RNG does put your claim on shaky grounds.
I specifically remember Queen Bee, Steamboat Willy, Cala Maria, Grim Matchstick, and perhaps Cagey. The Big Robot was mentioned for other reasons.
Those undefined attack patterns you refuse to get in any kind of depth for anymore, yet deride me for actually listing them?
That would be so, but your claim was that the randomly selected nature in Willie's attacks could cause a giant whiplash in difficulty ("from a cakewalk to hell"), which if all three attacks were to be compared difficulty-wise by any measure, that claim could hardly be considered true. You said yourself how he doesn't even shoot during those attacks as you weren't even willing to consider the influence of the floating barrel in the challenge. Something about being always the same. It's far from ideal, but it can be hardly called egregious when there's worse examples like Djinni.
What? How? For posts have I been pressing for specifics which you constantly seem to avoid, and now you're pulling this 'you're a lost cause' bullshit on me. I asked you 'Such as?' in my previous post for specifics but then you responded to me with a blatant joke answer. I'm trying to get this discussion moving, but you're not even willing to cooperate.

To point out the obvious weak point in this argument, why wouldn't I be able to say the same thing about you? Why wouldn't you be the one twisting your perceptions who twisted your perception to arrive to the conclusion that I'm the one twisting my perception? It's because of this looping logic that I'm constantly forced to ask to explain yourself, but I don't seriously believe you're the one twisting anything here, because I'm not looking for excuses to not continue this discussion. But if you think I am, do explain why and how. If you're only going off a tangent explaining to me that there's no use explaining anything to me, then please save us both the time and don't.
How so? By what example? Why do I have to keep asking you to explain yourself?

You don't have to respond to everything in my previous six big posts. I really don't expect that much out of you anymore.

You mean the one that would take hours to go through and I constantly remind you that it can be cut down or condensed? Yea sure.
Went over a few of them. The robot for example allowed you to control the patterns to some degree. Satan's moves are often balanced on the first phase, as are many other bosses on certain other phases.
Again. The filibuster argument. More words describing something doesn't correlate to a firmer argument.
Literally just went over Steamboat Willy and Queen be in fine example. Quit lying.
And here we go with semantics and subjective taste again.
No I said that the squid does no damage in those attacks which makes it factually easier to deal with. The shooting was mentioned when you said it was harder to avoid attacks because of going blind which never actually happens because you have to go out of your way to actually become blind.
Specifics to you is obviously not in the same ballpark as to what's occurring in the game. Again, you're pushing your perception harder than the actual content.
You're a lost cause because you're directly doing what I said I would not respond to if you did it. I said from the start to limit your posts and directly state your examples for things in concise and direct manors.
Because there is no significance to directly going against any of your points brought up since they must be addressed in detail. You're literally blaming me for not wanting to spend several hours debating something when I said from the start I was not willing to. If you were inclined to address my RNG statement you could have either spoken more directly about the bosses or broken it down into a more digestible amount. There is zero reason that you have to delve into every single boss attack and pattern in a long winded manor in 1 retort.
Like I said. This isn't a discussion. It's a filibuster. Even in professional debate the use of over 10,000 words is considered a scummy move to pull. College illiterates do this all the time to win arguments because there's simply no way to rationally respond to such a large amount of ideas and terms in a stately manor.
The thing is you could. But the difference is that when it comes to your posts it would take several hours to point them out.
Steamboat Willy was enough to convince me that you're definitions for difficulty aren't objective. Much like the map design for Doom which objectively turns to shit and mazes on many maps (which says nothing about the gameplay, just the level design)
That's not necessarily the problem. Every move and ability needs to be broken down. Even if you spend 1 sentence explaining why a move isn't poorly thought out, I still need to spend more breaking down what you've already tried to detail. As debates move things are broken down to further illustrate points. If I wanted to illustrate any points you brought up it would have to be longer than your initial post. Though like I said before, much of it is fluff. My point is you're putting somebody else through more work than is necessary and it's exactly why I'm not engaging in it. You could have spent time on an individual boss or put their moves in more direct terms but you didn't.

At this point I'm saging. There's more meta discussion going on than the actual discussion of the game and I have a feeling that even if I did engage on your prior posts that it would just end as it is now. Again, there's no point in engaging in a debate with somebody who has no objective method to discuss things.

Also as a fun challenge. Try and respond to this post in less than 1 post. And you'll see why I'm refusing to address your 6 post long wall of words.

Did they even playtest?

Sally Stageplay for the insanely great idea, personality, music, jokes and effort.
spread shot
don't care
saucy Baroness von Bon Bon, naturally, I need to be disciplined

You're overlooking something major here. Those three attacks aren't even designed to be actually difficult. The seal attack is literally the same as the very first attack from the first boss in the game with an even slower and static base speed with an even greater gap between shots and greater space to move around in. It's objectively easier than the very first attack pattern in the game. The shark is literally about moving to a fixed safe spot. The squid doesn't even deal any damage. But to argue about them individually is pointless because that's not what the boss is about.

It's when the boat constantly shoots cannonballs along the pier and the barrel is trying to drop on your head that these attacks actually become challenging. The cannonball can throw off your jump timing with the seals by shooting a fourth projectile in the mix. The shark attack becomes nasty when the barrel decides to drop at you from the safe spot on top of being right in front of the boat's mouth. When a cannon ball forces you to jump into the ink shower, it suddenly becomes harder to avoid the ink balls, especially on Expert when the amount of ink balls are numerous with overlapping trajectories, so even though it does not deal any damage it might impair you enough to miss some visual telegraphing. It's not like you can or want to really stand still during the squid as you would during a shark attack. It's when they overlap when they are actually worth comparing because that's what you will be actually dealing with. To do otherwise is to miss the point of the boss entirely, and is why you can't talk about certain things in Cuphead without mentioning others.
Let me put it this way:
The majority of all slappable attacks come in a determined pattern. Only a fraction of them are actually completely determined by RNG.
The majority of boss phases do not even have enough attacks to cycle through and/or last long enough for everything to be cycled through where it's very improbable to consistently get the "easy" attacks.
'''The presence of parrying changes the meta of a few bosses
For the most part, the implementation of RNG in Cuphead is breddy gud. (It sure as hell is when compared to its peers, I'm playing Contra (NES) right now and the zako spawning is all over the place if you ask me, but that's the fun)
If you want to know my reasoning, you know where to look. That's the thing when talking about majorities. One or two examples hardly say anything about the majority, because not all bosses and all that stuff. Then we'd have to list examples, and then when we'd disagree about one or more examples we'd have to…
Why the hell do you get to post using multiple posts now? Cunt.

...

Don't look at these.

...

And this is where I'm coming from on you ignoring objective concepts in favor of being right.
Then what is the boss about? Giving you advice on advil? The fuck are you even trying to say at this point?

And I'm saying some are more challenging than others by an objective standard here.
ok
It absolutely doesn't do this. Even if you have to jump over a cannon ball there's no actual requirement to move left or right assuming the barrel hasn't fallen. And even if it had and you had to move left or right you still wouldn't collect enough ink spots to impair you. The layering effect stacks to high. And even THEN if you were the blindness lasts such a short amount of time that you're already out of danger once you've made any necessary jumps that would cause you to collect the ink spots in the first place. Seriously it's not something you should ever have to consider in the fight and if that was the only pattern to occur over the shark and crabs then the fight would be easier. And even after that you're still only without sight, you can still last a good few moments provided you're capable of using your memory as to where the barrel is and the timing for the cannonballs. This is what I'm talking about with balance
The moves that compromise a layered pattern still determine the difficulty. A layered attack isn't within its own realm of context you know. How you can say the squid is just as difficult with the other attacks as any other sea animal is beyond any logic. So basically certain "overlaps" are harder than others if that appeases your autism.
I think you mean the other way around. Much of the pink's are shot at random directions.
Again objectively false when you consider Steamboat willy. Multiple ink and crabs with less shark is objectively easier.
And it does little to nothing interesting on the rest.
It's absolutely not and we've been over this.
It's not reasoning is the issue. You just spent 2 paragraphs being wrong on Steamboat willy and you did the same with the wall of text last thread.
The fuck does that even mean? I didn't make more than 1 post and I was trying to tell you that you simply can't address all my points in less words. Which is why I'm not bothering with your gay ass 6 post 4,800 word count shit.


I've been calling it a mediocre game from the start. The faggots been going since last thread when I told him I didn't want to go into detail and he refused to get over the fact that the game's a 6/10 without the animation.

fuck yeah, a new pic from her.

fug

maybe I should have added 'to be difficult ON THEIR OWN'
It's about keeping check of multiple attack sources at once.
It can impair you to the point where the mouth, the barrel, and Willy can barely even be seen.
By what fucking measure? Are you trying to sell me on the idea that it's a mathematical impossibility?
It lasts long enough for Willie to shoot his gun again and/or for another cannonball to be spat out. You're talking about what happens when you collide with only one ink drop as opposed to two/three.
So it's actually challenging you by impairing information most people take for granted?
Before you take this to town, the shark attack can be reliably nullified by triggering the barrel when it is not at a point in front of the pier, which you should be given enough time to do so considering the shark will swim around in the background for about 3-4 seconds before coming ashore. So even if you do get stomped by the barrel with the shark taking up the rest of the pier, it happened because of your lack of foresight. All that remains is getting the boat cannonball timing right. The seals are one of the easiest attacks in the game (to repeat, an easier version of the very first attack pattern in the game) with a random cannonball thrown in for good measure. The squid is also just about jumping the cannonball and trying to avoid the ink blots, though it's rather forgiving about how much you can tank. But it's not like you really want to stand still and just take it either, you'd most likely be trying to make an effort to dodge them, and if you fail to it'll mess with you for the next attack. Especially when you're going for a fast time you want to be jumping all the time with the Charge Shot in order to line up your shot against Willy. The barrel remains a constant factor throughout all three, though it can be taken care of beforehand before the shark attacks. If you asked me, it's the seal attack which is the most challenging one, and that's not really saying something. This already is a rather easy boss to begin with save for its final phase and its looping fireballs.
If you say so, but that's only a minority. But what about the rest?
Yes, their positioning tends to be random, but their order of appearance is usually static.
Heeeey, that's true. Seems after all that what makes a mechanic good is how it's used, glad you agree.
I conform to your rules and this is the kind of shit you give me? Is this is the kind of discussion you want? The only cases of outright poor implementations I've found were in Djinni, Beppi, and Baroness Bonbon, because their pink chances weren't static.

nobody posts best rule63(?) dragon

Even then they're still more difficult than one another.
Many of which are easier to deal with than others.
If you're going out of your way to hit them sure.
If it's mathematically plausible then it's just that. Barely possible outside the realm of theory given my several dozen experiences with him on hard. Even so the measure is much less difficult than shark .
To which you already have the timing down for and could easily do blind regardless.
Nigger I've hit more than 4 and don't get blinded. The fuck are you on about?
It's much less challenging than forcing you to jump on a constant basis because of the crabs or having your roam space cut by 3/4'ths. I'm not saying it's "do nothing and win" I'm saying it's objectively more easy than the other 2 sea creatures by a landslide.
So can the squid.
Squid has plenty of reaction time as well.
You don't need foresight with the squid. Just basic timing. You barely have to acknowledge him.
Which is easier said than done when you're trying to avoid a constant barrage of crabs or a shark that puts you directly in front of the cannon. Forcing you to react to the animations as apposed to the actual cannon ball. It cuts your reaction time by more than half. To the extent that you have to anticipate it through the animation. The squid doesn't even come close to forcing you to do this.
Are you saying this game has attacks that are easy compared to others? Oh my.
Have you read my post? You don't have to. You will not go blind, they literally can not make you go blind unless you TRY and hit them. There's no penalty to them outside of diminished your peripheral zone slightly.
I make 0 effort. It's no threat at all.
Easier done than said. If you've played games such as rez the Charge shot timing is easy. I often wail on him when the squid comes around.
I think you overestimate how long it takes to build a charge. If you're waiting with a fully charged shot for more than 3 seconds you've wasted your time.
The rest goes into what I've explained on other occasions with the Queen Bee's platforms and Mermaids easier patterns. Is it so hard to consider the fact that if half a dozen bosses show a serious flaw that a good sum of the rest also share it?
Well when their positioning can be in the direction opposite of you that's very RNG dependent if you ask me.

Easily? What kind of objective measure is that?
Maybe it's the case on Normal, but on Expert you'd be lying (which you said you were playing it on). On Expert colliding with three ink blots will cause the ink blinding effect to stack at its max. If you can't be bothered to test such a simple fact before making such claims, then kindly shut the fuck up.
You'd always be jumping at a constant basis in order to be even able to hit Willie with the Charge Shot, which is the primo strategy since it's tricky to keep him within a firing angle unless you go up close. Which is also why you are more likely to hit the ink blots than if you were to stand on the ground, but then you'd be wasting time by not damaging the boss. Same thing for the seals. You could be jumping up in order to shoot Willy, or duck and shoot all the seals before they get to you given that they die in one hit of almost anything, making them a non-issue as well.
With the shark it can be done so more reliably because there's more wind-up time before he's telegraphed, which is more useful when the barrel is winding up and can't be triggered yet. Here trying to trigger the barrel beforehand would objectively be hardest when facing the seals because they have the least wind-up.
It really is when all it does is throw a random cannonball in the mix of the seals you have to jump over as opposed to the ever-increasing projectile speed of the first boss in the game where poor timing will cause you to get hit by another dustball the moment you land.
But then all you're doing is getting the timing for the animation right. There's no real overlap of attacks involved here, it's strictly a matter of timing where you do not need to worry about other variables (save for the barrel if you didn't prematurely trigger it), as opposed to having to watch two or more things at once with the squid or seals.
Says who? You still have the barrel blocking your shot and cannonballs to contend with. It'd be safer to not jump at all and wait until he's done attacking before you attack.
Because of 3 out of 19+ bosses? Statisticians all over the world are laughing at you. Are you actively looking for reasons to not have to explain yourself? Moreover I don't believe Queen Bee's platforms are that impossible, most people forget they can duck and drop down platforms.
So what makes a mechanic good is how it's used, then?
Do you have examples? Maybe it's not as impossible as you think.

On the plus side, the way they use the scrolling background is almost verbatim how they used to do shit for the golden age Popeye cartoons so I don't think you can call them cheaters at that

also

The third and fourth point have apparently been fixed by the latest update

huh, so that's why they didn't put hp bars for bosses

The kind where you're not obstructed or take any damage. The fuck do you want? Approval by a committee?
Seriously stop lying. It hits 4 drops and stops at cutting off some of your peripheral. You can't even go completely blind. I just played the fucking boss a half hour ago dipshit.
It's 4 retard. Do your own research before you bitch at me.
And doing that with constant dogfish or a shark cutting off most of the screen makes it harder by an objective factor. Especially when the squid can;t even fully blind you or do any damage.
And again it doesn't matter if you do. Shit I'm playing him right now. Half the time the blots don't even register and do shit. And the other half their so off track that you would have to TRY and hit them.
You wouldn't be as likely at all. They're rarely in the way.
The hell are you talking about? The squids animation before the ink starts falling lasts a huge chunk of time. And even then (as I said before) he doesn't attack you. He tries to impair you, and it's not impairing.
Again you don't even have to dodge the ink splots. They don't do shit and they can't fully blind you.
Are you trying to say something is harder than another by a wide margin?
Which is infinitely more difficult than the squid.
The fuck are you talking about? You said yourself you can easily fuck yourself by not triggering the barrel early and getting fucked by a badly timed jump. That in itself is more difficult than the squid by a large margin.
what extra things are trying to attack you during the squid that aren't the barrel and cannon ball? The ink splots? I told you they don't do anything. And even if they did you would only cut off your peripheral, which is nothing because it just cuts off space you never go to begin with.
So here we go back to the "subjective" bullshit. It's not a small margin. I'm pointing out a key example of how the game does poor balancing and you've basically backed down to saying "I guess"
And? You're still trying to defend the squid here. Concede on that first.
He's always attacking. The hell are you talking about?
We've spent over 4 posts on Steamboat Willy. And you still can't admit that he's an unbalanced fight. You seriously want to go into the remaining 14 right now? Statisticians my ass, they would probably shit themselves over this autism.
Never said they were constantly impossible. Just that they can hold patterns that put you in nearly impossible situations.
I spent half a post on this last thread. One that actually functions with how the game functions. Parry does this to an extent but it becomes an afterthought in most fights save a special few.
Steamboat willy shoots pink gumballs straight in the air that you can't get. Lets stick with him for now because if this shit goes anywhere else we'll be at 6+ posts again.

The darkened edge effect has three stages for each ink drop you get hit by, with getting hit by three being the max stack size. It can only be considered four if you for some reason count the ink splash effects near the center of the screen which occur when you hit an ink drop at any time, but their duration is too short to be seriously considered.
Not really, considering you can stand in the middle holding down the fire button doing fuck-all as the seals get shot and killed before they can even reach you. In the same way you can kill the Squid with Charge Shot (+Spreadshot) before it can even shoot anything. That would only leave the shark attack, where you allege that it's harder because you have to watch the visual timing instead of the traveling projectiles, and that would be true if the boat didn't shoot at a fixed interval and if the visual telegraph wasn't that long. As it stands the window of opportunity for jumping in time in order to avoid the balls is rather lenient. Whether you jump half-way through the telegraph animation or right when he's about to, it doesn't affect the outcome in any particular way. It'd be different if the ship didn't shoot at a static interval, but that's simply not the case here.

What remains is the barrel which remains a constant danger throughout the fight regardless of what gets thrown at you (though you're given more time to deal with it before the shark attacks), and the constant cannonball shooting. None are made substantially harder as a result of the overlap, that if any comparisons were to be made in terms of difficulty, you'd have to deal with margins once you figure out a strategy to get most of the fishes to fuck off.
If you google 'cuphead rng', most disgruntled commenters would rather point out Queen Bee or Grim Matchstick as examples of poor RNG rather than even begin to mention Willie, or mention that he's affected by 'a bit of RNG' at the very most. Whatever RNG is in effect here clearly wasn't recognized by most people to be even considered a problem, probably because the variation in difficulty affected by the RNG is so minor that to most it was barely noticeable, and that you're mostly nitpicking here. Which is why I'm telling you up front that if you take this example to town, 'I guess?' is the response you're most likely going to get considering most people would rather complain about other bosses. As in from an objective standpoint it can very well be true, but it's not really noticeable to the point where it's worth complaining about. Let me say it clearly, the squid definitely is the easiest. Just not to the point where it actually matters or can be seen as a grave balancing oversight.
You didn't even mention that he'll shoot guaranteed after each animal attack, the bullets being more demanding to dodge since you can't cheese them the same way with the animals, especially when I'm trying to go for the pinks. You can't argue that the phase as a whole is woefully unbalanced and up to luck when every second attack Willie will be shooting at you with a 100% certainty, on top of the final phase where RNG isn't even applicable. That's really overblowing things.
So the potential does exist for even incredibly simple mechanics, but it's just underutilized. Glad you agree.
He always shoots at your current position. If your current position is at the top of the screen and he shoots a pink there, then you've already fucked yourself over from the beginning. Knowing that you can influence Willy's bullets with your position, how would you get him to shoot his pinks in a trajectory you can jump towards?

gtfo you stupid autistic fuckheads.

No

It's a platform game. I don't get this universal orgasm over it.

>here is our (((new))) Canadian game endorses by the prime minister
>(((new)))

The thing that blows my mind is that you’re so goddamn autistic that you wrote a 1,000 word blogpost about why this overrated crap is the best game ever. Fucking sad.

what makes you assume this

You be hard pressed to find a negative review of the game let alone some under 4 out of 5 stars. Also have you read any of the threads here? Have you read your own posts? Are you retarded?

Saged for defending jewish hipster game

End my life.

I'm guessI either miscounted or something then. Either way it doesn't fully engulf the screen barely hinders you.
Well yes but during that time you're not firing at the boss. Either way that's more thought and effort being put into the enemy than the squid.
My statement was that having your freedom to dodge hindered you more extremely than slightly blinding your peripherals and was much more taxing in terms of difficulty as a result. The visual timing you can't argue is an easier method of dodging than actually seeing the projectile and being able to jump over it.
I'm not saying it's the most impossible attack. I'm saying it's aces above difficulty when compared to the squid.
You said yourself that it's the layered attacks that make the game challenging, not the individual moves. Either way it's absolutely more of a threat with the shark if you don't trigger it early because you simply can't dodge it if you get poor timing as you're sandwiched in. Combine that with the cannonball and it's a good way to lose HP.
You have to remember most "disgruntled commenters" are from reddit and don't know how to judge anything objectively. Even then they likely mention Queen Bee because she's objectively one of the more difficult bosses in the game. My points being brought up have never addressed Steamboat Willy as an objectively difficult boss in comparison to the other ones. In fact you could probably put him towards the end of the first island and nobody would mind. My point though is that he's an unbalanced fight which goes to your next point.
do I have to? Those attacks are separate from the sea summons. Even if those attacks were more demanding that doesn't devalue his other attacks. That's like trying to assert that Queen Bee's final phase is harder than the rest of the fight so everything building up to that segment isn't worth considering.
Why not?
Considering I just got an A- on my second attempt because I only got 1 shark with 3 squids I'de have to disagree. The difficulty is absolutely noticeable and had I gotten 3 sharks I would likely still have a B- rating.
I never disagreed to that concept. The issue is it never goes anywhere. I stated before if Parry was kept in a few boss fights and wasn't considered in the final grades it would be a decent mechanic.
Fair enough then. In my defense I'm spamming charge shot at him while jumping constantly so they absolutely look random. I'de like to add though that there doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern with Yellow or Pinks. And if you're relying on a double slap you likely won't get it. If all the attacks were pink or every other round of 3 shots were pink I'de likely appreciate the concept a bit more to not hating it. As it is I just want to dodge the fuckers and move on, or have another gimmick that isn't forced and feels natural to the type of level I'm playing.

Hate to break it to you user but anyone whom has been here for at least 2 years or more are at best autists, otherwise they're furries and pedophiles.

Why not both?

We don't talk about them.

If you want to argue the difficulty each fish poses in from a speedkilling perspective, then it would be the squid which would pose the largest threat out of them all. For maximum damage output you would have to avoid shooting the squid entirely in favor of Willy, and to do so you'd have to stand to the right of the squid('s hitbox), right up the front of the pier as if you were preparing a shark attack. But in this case the squid would have you stay in the front longer than the shark would given that the shark immediately pulls back (at a decent speed) once he achieved his maximum distance forwards, whereas the squid is longer present at the midpoint of the pier than the shark is, on top of the squid impairing you with ink. This would also have you dodge the cannonballs from the front of the ship's mouth, which in your words is more difficult, despite your earlier claim that it's a matter of universal timing given the fixed firing interval of the ship and can be avoided through memorization when you're impaired by ink. It should be noted that the visual impairment effect affects the edges of the screen, with the visual telegraphing for Willie, the Boat, and the Barrel all also situated at the edges of the screen.

Killing the squid wastes precious time, and for time you can't afford to play it safe. You could opt to entirely not do this and stick to the left side of the squid wasting time, in the same way that you could be killing the seals by firing at the bottom of the boat with minimum effort which forgoes DPS in favor of staying safe. If you want to argue that I'm wrong because I'm proposing a safe strategy which forgoes DPS by shooting the seals, then you shouldn't make the case that the Squid is the easiest when you're dealing with him in the most inefficient way possible. You can say that that doesn't really matter, but when the difficulty becomes more apparent on high-level play (insert sneering from elsewhere here), then there's no real point complaining that things are too easy when you play it safe. The squid might be ez if you go for a scrubclear, but so are many other things in general. See webm for doing things the hard way in favor for better time.
The free space left when the shark is fully extended is large enough to fit you and the barrel (on top of the barrel hitbox being slightly smaller than its model), provided you don't trigger it at the middle of the zone, so it's not impossible. Moreover the situation with the shark and the barrel and the ship is same with the squid using the strat I mentioned before.
If half of all attacks are guaranteed to be the same then on top of the constant presence of the barrel and cannonballs, then the effect of the other half of the attacks on the difficulty can not be as pronounced on the current phase as a whole, as opposed to the lack of balance between the possible attacks in Djinni's first phase which would have been a much better example for a lack of difficulty balancing since it has no overlapping elements, unbalanced slap opportunities, and doesn't cycle between his possible attacks (depending on how much damage you deal).
After each yellow there will be a guaranteed pink, provided the yellow is not the final one in the current burst. After a pink there may also be another pink, which shouldn't be impossible to slap if you slapped the pink before that one. The pattern of the amount of bullets fired seems to be largely random, but predicting their type isn't all left up to chance (save for the first bullet in a burst which can be a pink but the first one should be easily anticipatable given that it's aimed).

Finnish basket crafting corporations are something that clings to your soul. It slowly corrupts you.
And shit don't stop at furry pedophiles: floor tiles, cock goblins, dog knees, backpacks, the geological accidents of the state of Ohio, etc. comes after that.

After that you ascend, becoming one with the site, you are no longer some virgin in Holla Forums; you are Holla Forums
That's when you start browsing /wap/ unironicly

Hey I just came in here to say that this thread is awesome.

I miss this kind of top level autism.

Not really no. You said yourself all it takes is a charge and a spreadshot to kill him pretty quick. Even if you were given squid every single summon it still wouldn't be enough to force anything less than a perfect score.
Stand in front of the squid? Problem solved.
I don't know how many times I have to tell you that the ink's impairment isn't anything to worry about. Its impairment is psychological at most.

Also you essentially repeat your points with that second paragraph. The squid doesn't waste enough time to the extent that it would actually do anything to remove your gold time standard. It just wouldn't.
The squid can't do damage man. Unless you run directly into him which I wouldn't argue as difficult in any way. I don't see how you're trying to argue that you even HAVE to make an efficient move with him. Either way as long as you're using that charge shot as efficiently as possible, even acknowledging the fact that the squid may hamper you by 2 seconds max, it's still not enough for that to equate to a more difficult run.
I'de argue it is if the cannonball fills that remaining space. You might think that's incredibly rare but it's actually occured a few times. Either way you're basically saying that there's a fractionative gap where you can't take damage as apposed to an enemy where the only danger zone is the direct middle with plenty of room to spare. I can easily say that Shark trumps Squid as far as player placement difficulty goes.
I never established them as a whole. I established them as an unbalance. If you cut half of the attacks into 3 seperate levels of difficulty then assuming you were given the hardest level of difficulty then mathmaticly there would be an unbalance. 50% of the attacks are static lets assume while the remaining 50% can be split into 3. If every attack with the remaining other half is more difficult then by pure statistics you're given an extra 50% of the match on a harder difficulty.
I can't think of a more contradictory statement. If there IS a pattern it's either much to convoluted to be reasonably sensible or far to useless to remember as long as you stick to pure frontal lobe play. Either way this entire mechanic seems way to agregious to be worth implementing in the first place in a game that primarily focuses on reaction time and skill over stratagem and memory. Those 2 components rarely mesh well together within the same mechanic. And I'm not willing to see an exception for Cuphead here.


I just call people faggots and move on with my day.

That's just plain funny.

You could kill the squid, but you'd have wasted one (and I bet in the newest update, two) charge shots you could have used on Willy instead. Killing the squid would also prompt Willy to fire his gun immediately after and cycle through attacks more often within the limited timespan of the current phase, making you face against his gun and shark/seals/more squids more often. You could then either stand to the left of the squid and just tank the ink while dealing no damage to Willy at all because you can't hit Willy because the squid is blocking your path, or stand to the right and pop off some charge shots at the expense of giving yourself less free space which makes the barrel more of a potential threat and has you jump over cannonballs directly from the ship's mouth, which is rather identical to a shark attack. You could also opt to play it safe by standing to the left, in the same way you could opt to play it safe by not dealing damage to Willy and shooting the seals instead.
You said that shooting the seals instead of Willy is ultimately a waste of time since it'll cause him to cycle through his attacks more frequently and give you more shit to dodge, so why can't the same argument be made for the Squid (unless you decide to argue that there's no point to speedkilling)? Staying to the left side of the squid or killing it will only cause Willy to cycle through his attacks much earlier, whereas staying to the right side and popping off charges where the presence of the squid becomes identical to that of the shark will let you kill the boss faster and make it easier on yourself if you put yourself at more risk. It's no different from other games where any enemy can be ez if you take potshots at it but can be dispatched much faster by moving in aggressively. Of course the former is easy, if you want to feel the real thrill you should put yourself at risk as well. By standing in front of a squid.
Squid has the advantage of you being able to pull back when you feel shit is getting too hot (depending on the circumstances you could do the same for Shark, it's not like you'll be cornered by a cannonball about to be a fired and a barrel hanging on top of you at the moment when the Shark has fully extended all the time either). Performance-wise doing so would not be ideal if you end up holding in your charge longer than necessary in order to reposition yourself in front of the squid again to avoid hitting the squid instead after having dashed left to avoid a barrel or something. It's a strat where part of the ensuing difficulty is self-imposed, but still very much there. And part of why I found myself more often wishing for the shark, because then I'm given more time to deal with the barrel whereas for the Squid I find myself having to move to the front almost immediately.
All you need to know for this fight is that pinks always come after yellows. The total amount of bullets shot at you and the bullet pattern they come in is largely irrelevant when it comes to anticipating pinks, given the first rule where the bullet type pattern is always YPY-PP, PYP-YP, PYPY, YPP-PY, and the mirrored versions thereof, but not necessarily in that order. Again, you don't need to know the exact patterns, merely that yellows never come twice in a row. Most bosses work off the same principle where usually there's a pattern to how pinks may appear, but it's almost never fixed and the positioning of pinks is mostly random. Anticipation is only half the battle. It's part memo and part reflexes, like most of the game.

If it were full memo, it'd be like the beam in the previous WebM I posted where I jump before it fires so I can slap it repeatedly, which I manage because I know the timing through trial and error (with the barrel on top asking some improvisation on your part if he corners you).

Pretty cool video.

Ah, so that's why the Devil easy kill glitch was even there. The devs are sneaky bastards, I'll give them that.


I honestly don't know why they even did that. You'd think they'd have covered the whole screen instead of giving you leeway on the final boss.

Faggot the first two isles are easy

...

I'm disappointed Cuphead doesn't have a winter or snow-themed boss. There's barely any comfy winter vidya.

Even with the update I seriously doubt it. If you count how many charge shots it takes to kill him and add up the most squids you can possibly get (which would probably be around 4-6) then you only have 8 wasted charge shots. And on Expert before the update I'm guessing it's around 40-50 charge shots to kill him with much time left over. At worst you're wasting 6-7% of your time dealing with the squid. Which is dismissive when you consider that the shark can cluster you to a small space and force you to shoot at willy in said confined space WHILE dodging the cannonball and possibly barrel in the same small space and you can easily understand how the difficulty is still not comparable to the sharks.
Which gives you more pink pellets, which gives you faster super charge. So in a way the squid makes the fight end even sooner. In fact you probably make up for the time the squid cost by dps alone.
It would still be easier than the shark because you have more overall room. The ink spots AGAIN aren't a threat and if you're going to say it's more difficult you should explain why.
You could pull forward to. Either way works really.
Why would you do this? Again the repositioning you need to do in front of the squid is still easier because you have more room than the shark.
Then maybe you should stop hanging in the very back of the level. You shouldn't do that specifically because of the shark or anything regardless.
Which isn't much considering a yellow can still come after 1-3 pinks and the pattern is still inconsistent as a result. Again it doesn't matter in the end as I explained. It could have very easily been a simple 121 pattern or 1122 pattern that was reliable in the end and didn't variate enough for you to haggle more pinks at any given time.

I just finished Cuphead myself. I'll give it my thanks for the challenging nature, but I really didn't like the character designs at all because most of them like Cala Maria gave me Calart-vibes.

garbage garbage collection

Calamaria gave me some vibes alright.

The dude never went to calarts and learned on traditional pen on paper. I saw some seminar he gave at an animation college on Holla Forums.

Hot stuff.

yes

The issue is not here how much time is being wasted but that it can be wasted. When you're going for the best time you want to optimize everything, and that involves standing in front of the squid, which makes it no different than standing in the shark's safe spot, and that involves jumping the seals. See this speedrun at 28:38 for reference (it's Regular, but it's glitchless played on the current patch and should get the message across).
The amount of super generated by the Charge Shot is steady enough for you to pull of a good amount of CS Super Attacks, and moreover the opportunities to use supers without sacrificing time to charge your CS is limited so there's no real point in wasting DPS on the Squid for extra pinks from the ensuing shooting attack (which in turn prevents you from using the CS super… safely) when you won't get enough opportunities to use that super to begin with.
The space allotted is about equal. Maybe there's a bit less for the shark, but given that he immediately retracts after fully extending it balances out I'd say.
When I say to the front of the squid I mean to say on the right side of the pier. Or the screen.
Pinks always come after yellows and yellows will always come after one or two pinks. Two successive pinks shouldn't be a case of being fucked over since the bullets are shot at you fast enough that if you slap the first you always have enough momentum to slap the second. The pink logic here is similar to the fist attacks of the Frog Brothers where there's three possible combinations of what projectiles are pink, however those projectiles are much faster compared to what Willie shoots, so it makes sense to increase the amount of combinations in order to make the impact of randomly picked pink combinations actually noticeable.

Moreover, inconsistency is kind of the point here. If pinks were shot at a fixed trajectory and fixed interval each time, you'd only be doing the same shit each time and things would get too predictable as a result. However, there is still a consistent logic to the appearance of most pinks, but some factors are randomized in order to grease up your short-term thinking and reaction speed, meaning both anticipation and improvisation are involved. Just the former will get too predictable and just the latter will get too unpredictable.

Cuphead 3ds when? Would be cool to play on 3d.

When the final result doesn't matter it's not much of an issue is it? As long as you have that gold time there's no point in worries about time wasted.
In a pure speed focused battle, which is completely arbitrary and self dependent then maybe they squid might be longer. But you're also stretching this argument so thin that's it's barely worth mentioning as a serious critique of the game. Especially since it's already RNG dependent regardless.
But your initial point was that the squid brings you towards pink pellets faster. If that's the case you should at the very least get an extra super in there where you might not otherwise if you didn't get the squid.
So now the CS is more powerful than the super? I don't get this logic. You said yourself it was nerfed.
I really don't see this. The shark at full attack cuts off more than 3/4th's the screen. The squid appears roughly in the center.
3 sometimes as well.
I disagree. It's already enough of a challenge (or it would be if the slap time wasn't so overforgiving) as it is.
More anticipation than improvisation imo. It goes back to what I said before though. You can have quick reactions or you can have strategy. Meshing those 2 things together often meets in dismay. It's like solving a puzzle with an unheard of QTE. It just doesn't mesh well.

God no. 3D's a gimmick and would just hurt your eyes looking for all those projectiles coming at you.

Why do I keep losing my shit at bad Family Guy/Rick And Morty/Nu-Simpsons edits, they're obviously mocking the subject matter but they're hilarious

I legit lost it at her final phase. Also some user posted a video of himself saving up meter and performing a way dope parry onto falling rose into 5 cards super onto her last phase.

...

...

Why settle just for gold?
Given that the game grades you by and keeps track of your clear time, it wouldn't be a stretch to say the game is built around speedkilling/running. It may be an arbitrary goal, but so is going for an S-rank or anything on top of just survival.

Though that's no reason to examine all attacks from purely a survival-play standpoint because it doesn't factor in higher level-play and any such opinions of the former would largely not be of any use to the latter. For example, most people will just duck during the final phase of the Boat fight in order to avoid the beam, and most people think it's just an easy attack which is telegraphed almost too much but it really just a waste of your time. However, in the speedrun I linked you can see that you can also jump at the right moment in order to slap the beam repeatedly and shoot at the boss diagonally in the air, giving you the opportunity to damage the boss which would normally be impossible when ducking under the beam. If you really want to examine the difficulty of an attack, you should do so on multiple levels of play. A boss might be easy if you only counterattack during a particular vulnerability window, but then you're not taking the fight to the boss, on top of the game telling you that you suck by giving you a crappy grade.
I said that it causes the boss to cycle through his attacks faster. It may spawn more pinks, but usually it's not worth the loss in DPS by getting rid of the Squid and not having enough opportunities to use up all your super if you're going fast.
I don't know if the nerf extends to the super shot of the CS. Moreover you can use the shot supers in order to deal more damage in the short term in order to get a boss to change phases more quickly, or save it up for a regular(?) Super attack like the whirlwind one to deal more damage in a concentrated burst, which also tends to be safer to use.
You want to stay to the right of the squid because the hitbox of the squid is large enough that if you shoot a CS right under the squid it'll get absorbed by the squid instead. That zone being near identical to the safe spot of the shark attack.
I think you're thinking a bit too big here, given that we're talking about a run 'n gun. Game having anticipatable attacks arranged together with random elements isn't anything particularly new. As an example for what happened to me yesterday, I was ducking under the fire of a turret emplacement in Contra ST5 so I could kill it safely, only for a grunt to spawn from the left side of the screen and was planning to run into me. Which is not a fixed encounter. At that point you can either get up between the gaps of the turrets' shots in order to turn left or shoot the grunt, or hope to kill the turret quick enough so you have some space forwards to deal with the grunt. Which in a game where grunts always spawn from the edges of the screen isn't beyond expectation. In Cuphead it's the random arrangement of different elements/hazards which create such situations. You can learn what gets thrown at you, but getting out of particularly sticky situations isn't something you can bruteforce through memorization.

Cuphead.

Because unless you're speed running that's all you need if you're going for full co0mpletion. Going past gold is something you do beyond that and is in such an exclusive and specific catagory that's it's not worth using as an argument when I'm talking about unbalanced difficulty.
It might be. But you're so far gone from the original argument now that it's not even worth bringing up. I already stated that you could probably kill the boss FASTER with the squid anyway because of more common pinks.
Even all this considered when you look at the squid again he's still objectively a more easy situation even in the higher levels. I don't know why it's so hard for you to consider this. And even if it were HARDER than the rest at these levels then there's still an imbalance on the other side. You simply can't win here.
An extra Super is probably worth 6 seconds of DPS I'de argue.
Well already then there's more room as apposed to the shark. So I don't see how this makes him more difficult.
I'm not saying it has to be. But you should be given that opportunity in a way that's not completely random.

It's an edge case, but an edge case nonetheless. If under different strategies and circumstances the implication of an attack changes, then that should at the very least be acknowledged. In this case it's about as hard as you can make it. Which is no strange thing in a game where you can kind of cheese through with less skill using the Homing shot. But people use other weapons because even though they are technically riskier to use given that you often need to be in range, they just deal more DPS in the right hands. This is merely an extension of that concept.
For survival it's easier to deal with the squid, for speed it's about the same as the shark. You will find this survival/scoring/time difficulty dichotomy in many other arcade games and the like. Just judging games based on survival doesn't give the complete picture.
I just linked you a speedrun where they don't because it doesn't. Just because you get more pinks doesn't mean that the time spent getting them would be worth not shooting at the boss, or that you will even have an opportunity to use that super against the boss. If you have more super than you could use against the boss after killing it, then you've just wasted your time.
We're talking about weapon Supers which take only one card instead of the Super Moves which require all five. Did you even watch the aforementioned video I linked?
Take a look at this picture. The above lane depicts roughly the shark's hitbox and the safe zone of the pier, and the lower depicts the hitbox of the squid and the zone where you need to stand if you don't want your shot to collide with the squid instead of the boss (it's slightly larger than the sharks', I suppose, by a few pixels). So either way you'll be boxing yourself in where you can get cornered by the barrel or have to avoid the ship cannonball gauging by the telegraph animation of the ship rather than the trajectory of the cannonball. It's worth mentioning that the squid persists for three-five seconds whereas the shark immediately pulls back after fully extending, meaning you don't have to spend as much time in the safe zone. You could pull away any time from the squid, but you'd lose some time.
And it's not. It's within the bounds of anticipation and reaction, even if you get shot by three pinks in a row.

Fuck the beam