Cuphead thread

King dice was a cool character designwise

>brother gets cuphead in xbox

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I've got 5 S ranks left. Brineybeard, Cala Maria, the train, King dice, and the devil.

Hopefully some japs will try to copy it and do a game with good animation.

I've got Dr. Kahl, Ribby and Croaks, Phantom Express, King Dice, Devil, and Hilda Burg left myself. Got any tips for R&C?

I can't tell whether you're insulting or complimenting the animation, but either way, get out weeb.

I'm complimenting it. I want more games with good old school animation like this. Just imagine Dragon's Crown witch with lovely animation like this.

>Did their incompetence on playing video games triggered them so bad that they have to defend their laziness by calling it racist or its the Dark Souls of ?
Pretty much.

would be nice some gooks making a game with 80's anime style

Because the game is beyond the ability of game journalists. There's one video where a journo takes ages to get through the tutorial.

Everyone laughed at them, and they turned around and called people gatekeeping elitists. After all video games are for everyone not just the people who are above a certain skill level, like books or movies

Videogames really are for everyone. There's nothing to stop you from getting gud through practice.

I happen to like the artstyle for Dragon's Crown as is, I don't need it turned into bucktoothed spaghetti limbed 40s cartoons like Cuphead. Let Japan have its artstyle.

What is Another Roadside Attraction?

The truth has earned you those quads, user. Though if you want to get technical, most video games can't be truly appreciated by someone with an IQ of 90 or lower, since they'd be incapable of carrying out written instructions, which most video games have at least some of.

I bet these journo faggots listen to some hipster trash and defend it by saying it's too deep for you or some other nonsense.

That's what I thought as well but it's pretty solid actually, I was really surprised. If you've enjoyed games like contra hard corps, alien soldier or gunstar heroes, you'll like it

Boy fucking howdy I didn't think it was possible for adults to be so stupid, but I ran into this woman this weekend
Fucks sake. She knew what all the parts were and what they were called but couldn't conceptualize the arrangement to put them in. I don't get it.

This makes you more gay than a sissy hypno video

They can't play on their Macs.

mfw

Dead game general

It's going to go down the same route FNAF went

Now… we wait and look out for the next game.
And then, we sit back and enjoy.

Who got to play coop? After going back to help a friend with some bosses, I have to say it mostly works even better if you have a partner, especially if they are decent at the game.

Are you from the 90s?

Can't wait for the shitposting about how it's a meme game, and people speaking for everyone about how Holla Forums never actually liked it.

Difference is that it had barely the same staying power as FNAF because it wasn't furfag. Plenty of porn coming through, though.

The lore ride was interesting on Holla Forums, but I didn't even have to play the games to know that they weren't anything beyond what a basic flash game could offer.

OH PLEASE

Yeah, I'm not going to try to exclude someone from playing a game of their choice even if it is a coop game and he basically sabotages the rest of us due to his lack of skill

The main reason I brought it up is because one of the arguments I've heard from the "anti-gatekeeping side" is that gating story content like the ending behind getting gud and beating the challenges in a game is elitism, and that everyone should be able to experience all content, no matter the skill or lack thereof.

I personally see the ending of a game to be the reward for completing those challenges, and that getting that rewarding content without putting in the effort is defeating the purpose of having that content as a reward.

it keeps happening

Just like Undertale

The Dark Crystal remake is looking pretty good.

Turning Cuphead into autistic garbage everyone here will fail. Do you know why? Because the Graphics style takes way too much effort.

Who gives a flying fuck what ✡they✡ think.

People try to pull that shit with Metal Gear of all games. It's embarrassing.

I played it singleplayer because I don't know anyone to play it with

Fuckin kek'd

Cuphead won't get turned into an FNAF or Undertale, but it will have a higher than normal share of autism. I rationalize it like pic related, where green = some and blue = a lot, for both the games and the metrics.

You'll get a lot of visual autism from Cuphead because character design -> everything else honestly (which is why it is double blue in the chart). Relationships add on to this (blue + green). Cuphead's autism profile is going to be limited to terrible Deviantart images, whereas other autisms have a more balanced portfolio (obsessive individuals, fan fiction, fangames).

Cuphead was also pitched at a somewhat older audience, at least that's what I feel. The game's advertising budget was not huge, and the outlets that picked up on it were your typical "professional" gaming news sources, who wrote articles like "oh damn check out this neat thingy at PAX 2014!" Sonic was intentionally marketed to teenagers and below for decades, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone were living a Rusty Brown-tier existence focused around Sonic hard mode: besides Chris-chan FNAF and Undertale were both picked up by awful Youtube LPers, who hit less literate audiences with insane efficiency. Cuphead did not have near the level of exposure of any other franchise on the chart.

>Doom
>no Cute/Animal Characters
>not finding the Cacodemon cute
Good chart otherwise.

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Should I mod Cuphead and Mugman into Knuckles and Sonic?

Follow your heart, just expect the autism you would unleash to be absurd.

Well I'm more asking because there's a SHITLOAD of frames to redo, and I don't exactly plan on half assing it.

If you really feel like it and actually know how to mod the game sprites then go for it, but good fucking luck.

which is funny because that's what they want to be

FUCK ARBITRARY COMPRESSION REQUIREMENTS

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I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

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Memes aside thats insanely well done.

wrong, some people just can't do it, like some people can't drive a stick shift

CUPHEAD IS NOT EVEN FUCKING DIFFICULT.
IS FUCKING MEGAMAN TIER
ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME MODERN TWITCH STREAMER/JOURNALIST/YOUTUBER CAN'T BEAT MEGAMAN?!

To paraphase a movie meme " I see dumb people except they don't know they're dumb."

Oh yeah?
Show me your 100% completion file if you're so great

I haven't seen much in regards to this but it's probably fucking nothing blown out of proportion in order to test the waters and see if the creators will bow to the whim of the almighty politically correct and infallible progressive dogma.

Cuckhead

Why do people even post this? No, seriously, why? Define yourself.

bumphead

go away meme game

Cuckcuck

iirc it was a handful of people involved with the actual animation and programming process while the music was relegated to a professional jazz band

Honestly why do you hate it so much?
I can understand hating something like Undertale what with its progressive undertones, but Cuphead actually has both solid gameplay and graphics behind it.

Wait you forgot "and Pozzman"

I like cuphead but was disappointed to see that most of the levels are just boss fights. This smacks of either two things, laziness, or small budget, which I suppose is forgivable since it was an indy game. Having said this, can you see why the games journalists hate this game? After reading the "there should be a skip boss button" article, is it making more sense? the core of the game is hard bosses, and they fucking hate that shit because they suck at games. they are word smiths backed by nepotism and a cultural agenda, and only see games as another media to inject their bullshit into

>>>Holla Forums

Do you want us to be impressed by this revelation?

OP asked why they hate it so I answered

You would be surprised at the amount of stupid people who think they are smart.

I can see that being the reason.
Game "journalists" sure as fuck don't appreciate games on their important merits. As long as it virtue signals and allows casuals to bypass any challenges then it's a 10/10 for these cucks.

o no im btfo pls stop budy i cant handl being btfo by someone with such reesining capebilties such as urself ill kill muhself nao

On the bright side.
There's a distinct possibility you saved money and the Panel in the TV was actually the advertised resolution.
SmartTVs are overpriced lying cancer.

Thanks, doc.

ur welcum

b-b-but they have a microphone and camera so the nsa can watch you masturbate

They also come with panels that are $100s cheaper than what is advertised and a pricetag premium of ~$200 for having a fire stick shoved into it

Reminder that the best bosses are the plane ones(because it actually requires you to be constantly on the move) and Dice King(because that was one hell of a gimmick).
Reminder that the smoke bomb is the best charm
Reminder that the charge shot is the best weapon

I live by hating things. Come on, user

This is you.

Tell that to Holla Forums, that they are "edgy".

The final isle is the only hard one, the first two are easy

I really would like to know why some anons hate this game so much.
I've seen so many anons that I intended to ask get deleted that it's hard to get an honest opinion.
I don't hate the game, and I don't hate the anons that don't like it, I'd just like an actual conversation, but modcucks apparently are horrified by such a prospect.

Lots of people on here hate popular games just because they are popular.

If something is so highly praise it's not unlikely to be disappointed by something good yet flawed.
Also shitposting is the true dark souls of boss rush games

You do know that there are Run & Gun levels, right?

My guess is you have to actually play the game. The games I hate most are glorified interactive cutscenes (eg. UNCHARTED) that casuals like so much.

Retard, look at their post counts.

I mean, I expect Holla Forums tier "your taste a shit" for literally everything on any imageboard, but it's almost like cuphead specifically triggers the shit out of certain anons.

Some fags that complain have actually played the game and I can respect them for it, but it's so god damn obvious there are anons here who cry for the sake of crying and don't actually play video games. It's their political sexual release and they don't care for people who actually enjoy the hobby.

I play video games

It's an easy target. Let them have their fun.

No, I will scream and cry and kvetch and okay
I just wanted an in depth conversation is all.

To be honest, the video is very well animated, the redesigns are cute, and I would play the fuck out of that if it was an actual game.

The idea for run&gun levels clearly came second. In a hypothetical Cuphead sequel I'd want to see some more involved platforming stages where P-rank doesn't override your other ranks and instead gives you AP or SP or something

what a dumb thing to say considering ive obviously played the game. the ratio of just boss levels to regular levels is way different than regular games and probably because designing a regular level is harder than a gimmicky boss. not that the bosses are bad, it just feels like an incomplete game, which is understandable since they had a low budget as I've already said.

the thing is, though, that Holla Forums is right, and everything on tv and movies IS shit

The only thing about Cuphead that offends journos is that it's too hard for them, but being the virtue signaling morons they are, they can't let themselves have an opinion on something unless it's political. Otherwise, their insecurities of not being a "good" person will fester and bubble up. They can't say that they don't like it just because they don't like it, but if they say they don't like it because it's too hard for them, they'll get laughed out of the room. So they have two options:

This lets them complain about the difficulty and make it political without actually admitting to being bad at video games, instead deflecting it to "disabled people." (and when pressed, they can pull out some self-diagnosed autism or something). Alternatively…
This gets away from the difficulty altogether while still being a great excuse to criticize the game and more importantly, and excuse not to play it (and therefore to not be bad at it without dropping the virtue signaling).

But, Holla Forums isn't edgy…

Looks about two times too slow.

Fuck off tumblrtale faggot. Enjoy your MKULTRA.

There's already tons of furfag porn of the dragon boss in the exact art style of the game.

Cancer like you is why the Doom community is dead and infested with goons.

:^)

Jesus christ, how low can journalists go?

Can someone please help me beat this boss!

Well.
1. Git gud
2. Stop spending time on Holla Forums
3. Try again
4. And again
5. ??????
6. Win.

Just keep playing until you win

Git gud
:^)

Because unlike Holla Forums which hates video games for all the right reasons, game journalists hate video games for all the wrong reasons

Lately? The fuck shit OP is this?

OK. I misunderstood before. You wanted MORE Run&Gun levels and thought that its current ratio to Boss Battles were skewed. I'm fine with its ratio as I prefer Boss Battles.

What happen to "if you can't say anything good, don't say anything" Pfft.

So are we going to talk about Cuphead's best character or what?

think again kiddo

No fuck off. You managed to be even worse than Goodrafag.

nah, he's just a wannabe, the real caranon had a charm that this faggot doesn't even graces upon

He has an offscreen hitbox during the pillar phase that you can hit by sticking to the bottom left and firing bombs.

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Which ones? Over what? Cuphead is kid friendly

Is the video you're referring to the one in your post? is this video supposed to be a comedy skit? I find it hard to believe that they spent that much time in the tutorial. It's extremely hard to believe he never thought of jumping off the cube.

Never mind, I read the YouTube comments.

Uhhhhh….Yes?

Truly the Dark Souls of action platformers.

I played harder game than this piece of shit, hell even typical Shump is harder with its bullet hell mechanic

Sure, user. Whatever you say.

Why are you using something as an example you clearly don't have any experience with

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Neither do you apparently

I don't remember Mickey having a rape face in the cover on that game. Is it one of those American covers/Euro covers thing?

I'm after the first island, died a few times but as for right now it seems to me that the fact that the game is called hard just proves how horrible the skill level of today's players is.

It's still a very good platformer, I'm having a lot of fun with it. Some of the bosses look really cool and the music is great. The game is challenging enough but not horribly hard it's very well designed.

archive.is/R6Gxc

I'd never heard of this game, so I just caught the first few minutes of it online. When Steamboat Willie goes from black and white with the humble shanty to color and an upbeat sounding version of it I thought it was really neat. I dunno, things like that make me smile these days.

Also don't you guys think that Cuphead has a very similar feel to the first Rayman? I would probably even recommend it for people looking for similar games.

That is the EU title. There are several versions of this game called Mickey Mania. I would recommend the Sega Genesis version. the SNES version has better music but it was an awfully broken port.

Rayman is a lot harder than cuphead. I NEVER managed to beat it as a kid.

Rayman 1 is a mess

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Except Cuphead is nowhere near as brutal as MWA.

FRIENDLY REMINDER SHITPOSTERS WANT TO TURN CUPHEAD AS A PERCEIVED "NEW UNDERTALE" AND WILL SEARCH STUPID CHERRYPICKED SHIT TO TRY AND SMEAR ITS REPUTATION AS A GOOD GAME WITH GOOD GAMEPLAY

OF

$0.50 have been transfered to you account

2/10

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So that's how you're suppose to traverse the cylinder.

Might as well post the dark souls one

its a meme game user, you have fallen for a meme game…

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lol

It's been a while since we had a new undertale and Cuphead isn't it.

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Shitposters also wanted Undertale to be the new FNAF and when that didn't work blamed tumblr, and also spent $2000 on scat porn because they were so upset nobody would hate it out of the gate.
Your point?

He's so fuckable too!

Explain what separates "Developed Story/Universe" from "Lore".

And what's "Young Advert"? What does that even mean?

IT MEANS ADVERTISEMENTS ARE DIRECTED AT THE YOUNG

Do you need to be good at Contra to fuck Cuphead?

always keep an eye on the three pyramids. The laser is really faint and transparent but you still need to use your corner of the eye for that one.
Those are literally the only two things he does in that phase, and the laser comes out at a perfectly regular rhythm.

Mickey was a damn good game so there's no problem with that image.

Parry Sugar is great for that one. If you jump at one of the sides of the cart, it'll instantly parry it, making it incredibly easy and fast to move it around or prevent the bricks from moving it.

Nigger what?

The game was originally envisioned as a Boss Rush game. Run and Gun levels were added after they showed a concept video, and everyone got disappointed when the devs said there wouldn't be levels like that, so they added in some. It's not about budget, it's about it being something that was outside of their original design document.

Speaks the Furfag

So the entire game was actually suppose to be the final stage of a megaman game? What the hell with modern dev being lazy assholes? Very rarely a dev manage to pull this, the only one I can think of is shadow of colossus mainly because its very unique, a puzzle game disguise as an action game

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They pretty much said they made it a boss rush game for budget/feasibility reasons, but then included some run and gun (which was their original vision) sections after they decided they could afford to be more ambitious.

Having said that, you're a faggot for not being able to see how this game is significantly better for focusing on boss fights. It ties into the difficulty and takes advantage of the animation far better.

And you wonder why peoples called a meme game, because theres nothing to it outside the great animation.

How can anything named Fleischer be racist?

And they didn't make it like Skyrim because they weren't good enough. Stop trying, retard

And you wonder why people call you a faggot.

And nice job confusing effort with what you think the game should have been focusing on.

It's ok at best.

How so?

If you swap the artstyle with something else while keeping the core gameplay, its a very generic game.

How so?

The battles are either easy or hard depending on boss patterns. Also Charge Shot is broke and half the items/abilities are absolutely useless. I went over this in the first threads for hours. I'm not going to delve into it again.

Isn't that the point?
Yes, wasn't it already patched though?
It's because most of them are handicaps for lesser-skilled players, whereas stuff like Smoke Dash is best used for rankchasing.
You have enough energy left to perpetuate your opinions in the form of easy-to-digest memes but not enough to explain yourself when inquired? You have enough energy left to tell me that you're not really going to bother anymore? Then why respond at all? You could have not replied at all to pass on the same idea, but you still seem to feel the need to even though you don't feel putting in more effort. The hell kind of example are you even setting for the others in this thread?

Gonna be fun to hear how the game "was never good" because meme sites also like it and how it was never liked here.

You are aware they had virtually no budget even with having microsoft being the publisher for them right?
They're making a sequel that actually has a budget

Boy would that be unexpected and shocking.

No, because because the dev doesn't know how to properly utilize the ability. For example in Megaman, each boss fight give you a power up which can be used on different boss or open up secret areas.

An unbalanced experience? No.
You tell me. Doesn't fix most of the other weapons.
Handicaps are garbage though and actually make the game harder is some cases. Lower DPS means longer battles which means you die more easily.
Maybe you should have been around in the original threads to discuss it then retard. I was in the first dozen or so threads and stated my issues in detail. Also jesus chill out spaz. It's a thread about a game, not a personal attack on how the board functions.

They have a budget, they blew it all up on the artstyle and animation. Do any of you millennial that praise this game played contra before? this is basically that without the level.

You retard, virtually all the art was done in house. It wasn't outsourced.
That'd be like saying Spelunky blew money on art assets.

That's not even mention all the shit they tweened to save budget.

the game itself is good. its clear they put a lot of heart and dedication into designing it.
but it sucks that it was lost to tumblr.

you're waifu a shit

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When you have stuff like 'get more HP but deal less damage' or 'parry automatically' or 'super bar fills automatically over time', that sounds like a handicap to me. Not necessarily something you build your game around.

An unbalanced what?
What's wrong with the rest of the weapons?
This depends whether you are going for a cheese strat which involves taking potshots and exposing yourself to minimal danger. Of course that's a terribly unfun way to play and you'll get a shit rank for it and hopefully you'll realize that you're better off playing aggressively using another Charm or weapon.
I shouldn't have to be prying out your opinions. Spit it out, man.

I've been meaning to ask you this: what's so bad about a game being all bosses? Conversely, would it be all bad if the game was all levels with no bosses at all?

From a game development stand point, it's mostly because bosses are a fundamental challenge to your understanding of the game elements, technically you can sort of get away with it for a familiar game styles, but it kind of defeats the purpose of a "Boss Battle" if you don't have regular levels.

By that logic fucking everything has been lost to Tumblr. Cupheads fucking everywhere, it's lost to streamer cancer more than anything. Tumblr just did to it with what they do to everything.

Boss fights. You been paying attention? A good game should have consistent difficulty with a curve. Being able to luck out on a battle instead of using skill isn't good design.
Useless compared to charge. And even then some are just worse. Homing shot comes in handy maybe once on a run and gun and bounce is a joke.
The fact that you can pull off a cheese strat is why I'm saying the gameplay is nothing special.
the way you're ranked is retarded so it doesn't matter. Forcing the player to Parry is retarded as is parrying in itself. It's an overused mechanic that I've been seeing in just about every indie title and it needs to die.
You should already fucking know the issues with the game you newfag. You played it right?

No shit you fucking numbnuts. They're all upgrades, but you only get one upgrade slot.

no (You)'s for you autist

And they pay their employee with what exactly, you fucking retard. Do they work for free?

You don't understand the difference between "Having a game artist" and "Hiring a 'Professional' artist" do you?

I liked Cuphead but I couldn't play it a week after it came out. My friend showed me, deliberately, videos of women and SJWs whining about how hard it was. The fact that they were playing it, tainting it, and advocating for it to be 'easier' just killed my spirit and will to play it any further.

I didn't ask for a refund though cause I wanted to support the devs at least.

I don't think you can really luck out in Cuphead, and even then it can only play a minor factor in your victory. The way you put it makes it seem that any moron can luck through a boss if he tries often enough.
Most are situational. Bounce is useful when hitting targets below you like the final Queen Bee phase. Spreadshot straight up shreds when applied point-blank, moreso than Charge Shot.
I do not follow this line of reasoning. Being able to win using cheap tactics somehow drags the whole game down? Is there a game where you can't cheese your way to survival for that matter? It's kind of an inevitability if your game has any kind of skill gap.
What's wrong with parrying? It makes perfect sense. You put yourself at risk to slap an incoming pink attack which in turn builds your super and in turn lets you kill the boss faster. It's basic risk vs. reward, not too different from how Alien Soldier did it. It'd be silly not to reward it, like pulling off combos in Bayonetta not affecting stage rankings in the slightest. The only silly thing about it is the requirement amount being too high when you can kill the boss really fast.

Do you ever had a job before? having an in-house game artist mean you don't have to pay them? Do they work for free? You do realize outsourcing is much cheaper than paying salaries of your workers for 3 years

they cant even beat 2d sonic and you expect them to beat megaman?

When the people doing the art are the same people that own the company, yeah, you don't have to fucking pay them dumbass.

Retarded niggerfaggot. That is not, and continues to not be what I am saying.
It isn't if the purpose is to recreate a very specific style with QUALITY. you fucking retard.

You can luck out easily. Play Steamboat Willy enough times and you'll understand.
There's a reason this game is popular with Streamers.
Ever learn how to shoot down? Problem solved.
Charge Shot is actually more powerful. I've tested this.
It means the developers never thought about how players may exploit a feature. There's an old rule of game design that states if a player CAN take the path of least resistance, they will. It's the devolopers job to find a way around this.
Plenty. many of them are older titles back when developers gave a shit. In any case it brings the final product down.
Exactly what I stated before. It's in every fucking game these days.
That's the problem. It's to basic. In a game like Cuphead I was expecting some strategy to improvement. I don't mind Risk and Reward but all they did was ape off of prior trends which is why it's a lesser game.

Either way I'm about done here. Unless you can state why lucking out on bosses is somehow a good thing this debate's not going to go anywhere. Either concede or agree to disagree.

If they dont pay themselves, how are they supporting themselves? how are they gonna pay the rent? buy food, etc? Go get a job retard and learn how the real world works.

Then what are you saying?
outsourcing is still cheaper, especially animation

For CalArts or Anime bullshit, yes. Cuphead animation would have been EXPENSIVE AS SHIT for anyone to do. The only reason this game got made at all is because it was a passion project and the people doing the incredibly time-consuming and expensive animation were doing it for free.

You do realize 99% cartoon shows since the 80s were outsourced.

Is that supposed to be an argument? TV shows haven't had good animation since precisely Nineteen-Ninety-Never

Yes, because these animation company can replicate any animation style you want.

But that's wrong, you fucking retard.

Thus coming back to the point of, "That would be expensive as fuck, but it wasn't for these guys because they did it themselves."

No I don't, because you constantly refuse to give concrete examples. What about Steamboat Willy? You mean to say I can do nothing but shoot forward for an entire attempt and win eventually? But seriously, this seems like a gross overgeneralization on your part.

I don't think there's any boss in an action game out there which doesn't use RNG as a determining factor for its next attack, which would to some extent let you 'luck out'. Could you name an example of a boss fight in a game similar to Cuphead where this couldn't be the case?

Cuphead largely relies on two or more overlapping randomly-picked attacks (thoae that don't tend to be on the sucky end), and while it is possible to get the (in your eyes) easiest possible combination, this can only occur for one attack cycle, after which Cuphead randomly picks another attack from the moveset list it hasn't picked yet which gets reset after everything was picked. Or a system similar to Tetris drops where the current attack is less likely to be picked next time, depending on the attack type. That's my experience with Cuphead anyways.

Either way while you are usually guaranteed to get one or two lucky strikes, the majority of the fight will involve dealing with the harshest and what you will have to look out for. Relying on luck to survive instead of avoiding attacks as you normally would is a surefire way to get yourself killed, so I don't know why you would do that. The degree luck plays in making shit easier for you is too minor in reality to be even taken for granted. I could get lucky, but not lucky enough to win a whole round. Either way, it's largely up to skill to capitalize on opportunities and predict future threats when need be. I suppose you could say it's a side-effect from having many possible attack combinations of varying difficulty to make the gameplay more reflex-heavy, but I'd then say it's pretty much worth it.

Like seriously, how does Cuphead treat RNG differently than most boss fights out there to the point where you feel you think it's a problem? Dark Souls, Ys, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Ninja Spirit, all use RNG to some degree. Especially the last two are crazy fun because of how wildly unpredictable they are due random enemy spawning, it's what prevents them from being memorizers and really tests the reflexes. But all the RNG in those games is within reasonable grounds, and I doubt you can say Ghouls 'n Ghosts can be lucked through. There's way too many factors involved in beating that game that luck can be considered the deciding one.

Uaing Bounce doesn't lock you in place like you would normally be when shooting downwards.
And Cuphead deals with this through a performance grading system where you get higher ranks for not cheesing the game, unless you use Charge Shot.
What games?
You mean to imply quality is relative to its peers on the market? I'm not sorry, that's retarded. You can clone a concept, but the execution will always be different. I don't need to point to the existence of other games having done the same thing as an argument for why the game in question is worse. You might call Duke Nukem a Doom clone and dock it points for that reason, but it's the levels and its own different challenges which justify its own existence as a separate game.

And how is it being too basic a problem for that matter? Some of the ways to get more pink bullets, like letting the pink seeds bud in the Flower fight ao every third shot they fire at you is pink or kind of being able to milk slaps during King Dice's card march should drive the point of Risk vs. Reward home sufficiently. It's simple, but challenging to nail right.

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Boy did that not age well

And? What's wrong with a video game actually being a video game? Generic is not a criticism if it's a genre that is far from oversaturated and if anything could get more attention. I would understand if the game is particularly bland about this but the gameplay does does a pretty good job with being inventive with what happens during each boss and even during the run and gun sections.

So you're problem is a semantics one then? That the bosses don't have levels to be a "boss" of?

Here's the thing. If Cuphead tried to approach its bosses as being an end of level challenge it would force the game to take a focus away from the bosses that the game benefits immensely from. No one would want to have to redo an entire level every time they die to the bosses, the boss fights are too long for that sort of thing. So unless you have a checkpoint at the start of every boss fight (which would just make the levels feel like a forgettable extra step and defeat the idea of the bosses being an end of level challenge) the game would need to drop a lot of the boss's content such as the various transformations that the bosses go through in this game. Which would be a huge step backwards because the various transformations and boss fight stages is how this game takes full advantage of both the quality animation and the cartoon logic that the game is built around.

I think it's more conceptually from a game design thing. Cuphead is pretty much a niche title that would cater to people already familiar with those kinds of games, but I get why All Bosses isn't exactly good for like, a general game or whatever, but they're making a sequel so whatever.

If you're so retarded that you don't see the blatant examples of them then that's not my fault. But Steamboat Willy is the best example because many of his patterns are easier to maneuver in than others. The Squid is factually easier to deal with than the Shark. Mainly because the Ink doesn't actually impair you unless it hits you consecutively and you couldn't get hit consecutively if you tried. This issue persists throughout most of the game. Such as platforms with Queen Bee and Many of the patterns with Maria or whatever her name is. the Mermaid bitch.
there are. But more to your point the issue is that the RNG isn't balanced so patterns are equally difficult.
Often better games have methods to balance out the RNG elements or remove them entirely and focus on pattern and skill. Old NES titles had a lot of this actually.
It can occur for many actually. It's all about getting multiple cycles that are anywhere from easy to normal difficulty. If you get plenty of them you have your issue. And that issue persists throughout most of the game. If you didn't notice it, cool. I certainly did though and it's why getting perfects on most bosses was nothing but luck despite me being able to get them with or without them.
Never said you rely on it or not. I'm talking about the RNG as a mechanic. Not how you treat it. And it damages the replayability of the game. Was boring and there was no challenge that felt earned when I overcame them.
Ad they handle them better. Bayonetta has patterns that rely on doing certain movements to evade but most attacks from enemies are roughly the same in difficulty and attacks save specific ones from enemies that I actually think is bad design.
Random enemy spawning has nothing to do with the issues I have with Cuphead. In GnG you're never put into a "better" situation than another because the enemie variety remains constant and you learn patterns to overcome them. The issue I have with cuphead is that certain patterns for bosses are incredibly easier than others whereas GnG, the Red Demon will always use the same attacks.
As apposed to moving around and missing the target? You're going to be locked in place regardless if you want to hit the enemy.
The problem is the performance grading it retarded. We've been over this.
Furi comes to mind. I don't have them off the top of my head but are you really going to deny that parry systems have been growing in popularity recently? There's several different mechanics Cuphead could have used instead of Parry and it just doesn't fit with the type of game it is. I would have preferred more emphasis on Supers and it charging faster from other methods such as shooting critical areas that put you in more direct danger or something that didn't rely on such a oversimplified Risk/Reward system.
So I take it the 6th CoD game is better because of this? Yes quality is comparative to it's peers if it offers nothing new to the market.
Nukem has enough elements and detail to allow this. It's a much larger game with much more aspects going on. Cuphead is a simple sidescroling boss rush game with minimal mechanics. So when one of it's larger mechanics is nothing special it's a hindrance. Stop comparing Cupheads to other titles.
Answered your own question.
Which are often completely reliant on RNG as well. I actually can cheese half the fights (including Mr Dice) where they aren't because of this though. Risk Reward my ass. The timing is so simple it's hilarious. Also Mr Dice is a great example of when RNG would have actually been a better option because you can so easily plan where you land.
kek no it's not. Play some sidescrolling shooters made in Japan and come back to me on what's "simple" and what isn't.

Do you mean the part where you have to duck the laser and hope that the trunk doesn't come down on you? Because you can smoke-bomb dash whilst you're ducking. Just saying.

Not to be THAT GUY but I beat it on my first try. Can't say the same for any other boss though so maybe I was just lucky.

I beat it on my second go but that's after already watching it so I knew what to do. Did you go in blind?

FUCK YOU
ALL I EVER WANT IS A BOSS RUSH THAT PLAYS LIKE MEGA MAN X

Protip: you've been fed lies and exaggerations. DSP not only did gamergate before gamergate by calling out games "journalism" overhyping and shilling ODST, he exemplified "fake news" before fake news became a term. He's unattentive and slow but you've been trained by fake news spread by goons to think he's far worse.

THE GAME ISN'T MEGAMAN YOU UNBEARABLE FAGGOT

Did anyone from old iD other than Carmack turn out alright?

That level of paranoia is just crazy. Or do you think that the Travellers' Tales guy responsible for the recent 3D Sonic flickies patch/romhack is also shilling himself here?

Just out of curiosity, what's the supposed connection between MKUltra and Undertale? Now I'm curious.

Well, I've been following him on Youtube for some time now and it seems that a new game is in the works. They're very much in the design phase though and they seem quite receptive to fan feedback. I remember a brief comment on how their approach to designing the costumes should be a combination of something that entails a certain gimmick that can make for fun gameplay as well as something the cosplayers can easily mimick. I feel like arguing the cosplayers are ruining the game but in hindsight, other than the trippy visuals and story, I don't know what else Alice really had going for it. I've only played A: MR though so there's that.

No I'm talking about how certain patterns are much easier than others to deal with.

Also, something everyone keeps neglecting to mention when they reply to your dumb ass is that the game DOES have regular platforming/run and gun levels. It's true that the game only has six of them, and the first one is kind of lame, but the rest are quite challenging and have a fair bit of thought put into them. They even have minibosses.

How do you know it will be expensive compared to outsourcing?
You know the dev need to feed themselves right? unless they have outside income, they need money to develop this full time.

You right, its a shitty megaman clone

I think its just you that suck at video game. I mean Mark had 12 game overs in sonic, I'm sure you faggots that think cuphead is remotely challenging have the same skill level as him.

The Shark is just 'move to the front of the pier' whereas the Squid does involve some moving and jumping around if you don't want to get completely blinded. As in it's simple to avoid, but tanking the attack just because it doesn't deal damage isn't an ideal strategy either.
That's why there's overlapping factors. Even though Willie's Squid might be easy as you say, you still have to take in account the hanging barrel to not get crushed under it or getting shot at. It's like the Baroness Bonbon fight where although you might get an easier mini-boss, getting one later when the footsoldiers themselves or she herself starts shooting at you can mess your strategy up.
Like what? Attack cycles for Castlevania and Megaman bosses are also random in the same way as Cuphead is, Contra itself was one big RNGfest, Psikyo shmups have the most RNG from the entire genre.
I don't really believe that getting the easy attacks is how you won over every single boss, let alone the majority of them. There's more bosses out there with consistently difficult phases than many with easy outliers. You mentioned the platforms in Queen Bee, but their arrangement hardly the defining difficulty factor. What I think can make them seem easy if they come in a pattern you are already strongly familiar with than one you haven't seen yet before.
You're going to chalk up every victory to RNG? Do name specifics.

You mean to say there aren't attacks in Bayonetta whose telegraphing is easier to get a hold of compared to others?
But the same argument can be made here that you can have an easier time if a zako doesn't spawn at a particularly dangerous hotspot and essentially let you luck through. It's less about the enemies themselves and more about the time and place they decide to spawn.
As long as you don't aim towards the edges when dodging. The DPS this way is more consistent.
You only said that parrying itself was retarded because supposedly all other recent games were doing it too and then dropped the argument like a newborn Chinese, ignoring the aspects of encouraging speedkilling and taking no damage into the grading. That's hardly an acceptable argument for why the grading system itself sucks.
Not everybody sees things the way you do. So stop trying to make the case I should know what the hell it is you are talking about when you can only name one game of the supposedly many which overdo parrying, one whose execution thereof isn't remotely comparable to Cuphead (parry strings of melee attacks for health w/ perfect parries for more damage vs. parry rare bullets for more super). How the hell doesn't it fit with the game? You put yourself at risk by jumping at a particular timing, and jumping is already an integral part of the game.
Because often times it is the execution which sets the game part, and execution-wise there's nothing quite like Cuphead in terms of attack and boss structure as opposed to being the Gunstar Heroes/Contra clone people would have you believe it is. The bosses in those games fall more squarely on the simple side for such a comparison to be made, most of them do not even have any kind of overlapping patterns.
How so? It rewards boss knowledge by knowing when pink bullets can appear and reflexes for making tricky jumps for when they do appear.
It's less about the timing and more about the jump itself. The chance for pink bullets to appear is often deterministic. Every last enemy in a wave during the bird fight will be pink, the appearance of pinks in the first phase of the Frog Brothers is always fixed depending on what variation of the attack is used, the bee bombs during, the Tumblr Dragon's initial attack with the guaranteed pinks can be manipulated to slap all of them, Queen Bee will fire guaranteed pinks and the slappable nose of the rollercoaster in Balloon Man is always there. It's more the exception, like the Genie throwing cats at first with a pink one or diamonds with no pinks in them, than it is the rule.
Like RayForce?

You won't get completely blinded. I've tried. And even then it's for such a short duration of time that you're unlikely to even have the boss fire anything at you.
You mean the constant factors that you've already mastered by that point? Not even worth mentioning.
So basically a pattern occurred that could have not ever occurred tanked your game? Exactly how is that not poor balance?
Except there wern't overlapping patterns in either games and their patterns were often cyclical and AGAIN their attacks were better balanced in difficulty.
Well no because I'm not shit at the game.
Barely. Most bosses in Cuphead consist of 75% easy patterns with the remaining 25% being anywhere from challenging to bullshit. The best boss in the game was the Evil Robot because you could actually manipulate where the first phase to the battle went.
It is when you're on the right side of the map and all the platforms suddenly decide to shift to the left without a way to jump across the middle. Seriously if you fought her more than a few times there's no way you were left hanging on a platform with the only way to advance was taking damage.
Better yet why not just have a series of patterns that aren't fucking shit? The concept of jumping from platform to platform is good enough. There's no reason they needed to implement RnG on them that heavily.
Not me personally. But you absolutely can with many. Mermaid bitch shooting nothing but weaker patterns like the water spitting seahorse and the simple projectiles over and over again occurred to me a couple of instances. Which was absolutely easier to deal with than many of her other patterns like the falling shells. Sunflower fucker is loads easier if you get good seed falling placement (assuming the pink one isn't directly above one that deals damage) I can name more. But it's been at least a month since I played and I only beat the game twice.
There are but their often on later levels and actually make sense as to when their difficult. You thought first, second and third sphere tier levels were just flavor? Joy is first sphere btw. Grace and Glory are the highest level in Second Sphere. And they're presented as a challenge from the start. As for their moves you can actually manipulate them to a degree if you're good enough. And if you're even better you can combo them up so they use said moves less frequently. Again stop comparing Cuphead to other games. Because unlike Cuphead, you have much more player decision in Bayonetta.
The difference is balance. Like I say again and again. Multiples of the same enemy with very little in the way of movement and attack variety is much more consistent to deal with than completely random patterns of projectile attacks.

You're missing my point. If you have to move WHILE shooting you're going to miss your target. You can pop off a downward shot with ease anyway. You wouldn't be still for more than a half second if you know what you're doing. and you can shift spots easily. And if you're using Charge you're absoultely dealing more DPS. Even default does more damage than bounce if you're not shit.

It's a meme, you dip.

I swear you are the same debatefaggot that appears on all boards, arguing with such autistic tenacity that it reminds me of DA-anime forums.

whats this autism infecting this thread

Apparently a bunch of anons trying to disprove that Cuphead is actually a game.

They may be constant but it's them being combined with other attacks that's supposed to test your mettle as opposed to being pure memorization.
It was an example, and one which doesn't necessarily need to result in death. Enemies may try to catch you off-guard, but it's pretty much always possible to escape, the only catch is that it happened in a way you normally don't expect.
You're talking about misdirection? Several bosses can have their projectile attacks be manipulated for an easier parrying position or to be avoided entirely.
You can always dash over, especially with Smoke.
It's about jumping from platform to platform with attacks which force you to move about platforms even more, from that standpoint it's actually consistent.
Even if you do manage to get lucky you'll have to deal with the later phases which are more consistent with their difficulty.
Not completely, there's only so much randomness involved in the many attacks and most of it is within reasonable expectations. Some combinations you might not have seen before, but that's something to take in account next time

It's an argument that will only pass from a 'what value am I getting from my money' perspective where you perhaps don't want to buy the same shit, but not from an objective quality standpoint.
I'd argue positioning yourself in a dangerous spot in order to counterattack for bonus damage carries some risk with it compared to more lenient dodges and some skill to execute consistently
If you wanted to name a good comparison you should have mentioned Alien Soldier, which is near identical where you parry projectiles by mashing attack which converts them into health and lets you use your Super for bonus damage if you're at Max Health. If you think one's better than the other, feel free to tell me why.
It's because they're so out of the way to parry them for more super that makes the system worth it. If you have a better alternative, or just another example of a game that does it better, I'm all ears. Parry more, speedkill harder.
I don't really believe in giving games bonus points for innovation, I'm more interested in execution, and if it's the execution of a tried and true concept then I don't really mind. The idea that that makes a game nothing special is rather disingenuous as it completely begets how something is done in favor of what. Some of the simplest games manage to standout due their excellent stage design.
It's simple, but it's because of how it's utilized that makes it stand out to me, where it can double as platforming like in the Phantom Express boss but also as boss manipulation to misdirect attacks so you can charge up your Super more easily. It's in the way that you can charge up your Super ASAP while dealing more damage in the meantime with your regular weapons that defines how quickly you can speedkill.
It's about being in the right place for a jump and being able to make a safe recovery than about the timing, like parry slapping something only to land on the bullet skightly above it. It's more about foresight.If the pink is too close you'll have a harder time to build enough height for a slap, and you don't want to land on a bullet or a platform moving away.

I'll concede that Cuphead's method of determining the next attack isn't deterministic enough to prevent getting the easy ones more than once in a row, but I don't buy that parrying is redundant because of peer abuse or that the existence of easier attacks in a set of difficult ones is a bad thing. Sometimes you need a breath of fresh air.

Is this a debate robot? Let me try.
Monstergirls are furry.

it says a lot about the state of this board when everyone regards an actual debate with minimal shitposting taking place here as a caveman would regard fire

It also says a lot about the state of this board when the reddit spacing meme allowed this kind of monstrous formatting to exist.

Oh my god, this. I can't believe people are falling for a fucking meme that encourages walls of text.

Holy shitting autsm

It’s too late to stop it now, the Reddit Spacing meme is over a year old at this point
The damage has been done and there’s no fixing it

...

COUNTERARGUMENT: GHOSTS, SLIME, SUCCUBI, AND ALRAUNE DO NOT EXHIBIT ANIMALISTIC FEATURES YET ARE CLASSIFIED UNDER MONSTERGIRL

It's because half of the post is greentext so it's long as fuck.

The modern iteration or historically?
The answer is different depending on which you are asking.

I do IT support for farmers. That's basically every day for me.

It's called remembering a time when a video game just wanted to be a fucking video game. It's pure nature was so strong it made you smile.

There's more than one of us I can assure you. I never initially wanted to get into the discussion though if you read my post history

The same attacks. The difficulty is more constant.
But it can. And it's still more difficult.
They really can't. And even then they often shoot spreadshots which still results in luck for parry projectiles.
No you can't. Queen Bee is often in the way or the fuzz. Smoke helps but it's still incredibly more difficult to deal with that situation than it is if the platforms just had a consistent set of patters that didn't to fuck you over.
That doesn't answer or solve this issue in any way.
The later phases are often easier actually because the patterns have no variety. The game can't do RnG right.
That's not the issue here. The issue is that some events are much higher in difficulty than others.
"objectively" this game isn't worth more than $20. And "objectively" the game itself isn't worth more than 10 hours because of how over simplified every mechanic in it is.
And here's why the industry is tanking. People are willing to buy products with nothing interesting about them. I don't have to delve any deeper on this subject. I think my points been made. All I'll say is that this game isn't worth more than $10 bucks and the insane amount of attention it's gained outside of animation.
There's nothing "deep" about any of that. Speedkilling is one of the nicer aspects to cuphead but it comes at the cost of overly simple methods to get it. If the game were more focused on multiple methods to take out the boss instead of manipulating attack directions it would actually be worth something. As it is though there's no value in utilizing something that has no actual strategy to it.
So basically placement battles? That thing that's been in existence since bullet hells were a thing? That's nothing new and nothing exceptionally significant. Don't know why you're fawning over the game because of that.
The redundancy is part of the issue. The other aspect that's a problem with it is how overaly simple it is. You'de think they could have put some variety in how bosses work. Maybe have more than 1 color? Make blue have auras around them that charge your super if the closer you are to them, maybe have yellows that sacrifice a heart for a full super gauge, Greens that heal but drain supers fucking anything other than the overly simple and unoriginal parry system we got.
It's not. But they need to be in a set pattern as breather times like Bullet hells often do or at the very least devote every 3rd of the battles to the easier once while the remaining is harder ones. Something that doesn't allow you to cheese the boss in the method you do.

You can go back, a lot of developers are willing to rework games from way back when, they mostly just don't know that people want it

...

Have you never read a fucking book? if I spaced after every green text every one of my posts would have to go into 3 separate posts at the very least. Also our formatting has to be peculiar because green text innately throws the formatting rulebook out the window. You wanna talk about wall of texts? How about even longer text boxes that eat of a chunk of the scroll bar? The formatting is fine. I try and go out of my way to keep the greentexts short unless I can't help it however.

It's almost as if books are printed as to save money on the paper used up, where as a website has zero reason to need to condense shit.

There's also 0 reason to elongate a post for no purpose, the pattern of greentext and plain text retort is simple enough to digest and breaks is away from being a wall of text. And we still have a 300 post limit, so yes we do have a reason to condense our posts to some extent

Helping to make a post more readable isn't a reason/purpose?

It's already readable. The greentexts act as chunking the formatting. Spacing doesn't make it easier to digest. If you're bothered by it try zooming into your browser by 10-20%.

Two reasons:

1) They secretly sympathize with Dean Takahashi as today's journos are similarly shit, and they are scared of being treated as jokes.
2) SJW journos hate gamers, esp. elitist gamers, and therefore take it upon themselves to problematize whatever gamers like. It's sorta like how some Holla Forumstards will go "if SJWs like it then I'm gonna hate it just on principle."

Of course a reasonable person would avoid their pozzed talmudvision bullshit

Also nice ID fucking checked

Your entire post is proof that newfags from 4/pol/ have been shitting up the other boards.

That picture will never fail to sadden me.

It's simple attacks being combined with other simple attacks or variables determined by RNG such as moving platforms which are supposed to test your reflexes. I already trust you've seen the Mark Brown video on this and disagree with it in some way, but it hardly always gets predictable save for some phases and eliminates safe spots from the equation due to its RNG nature which tends to plague many similar games where you can just figure out where to stand and avoid all attacks.
For Bounce I was actually referring to her last phase where she hangs around at the bottom of the screen, for the rest I just point-blank her with Spreadshot.
Variety in what sense? Cuphead on the whole has an incredibly varied repertoire of boss attack further made more unpredictable through RNG. You've got almost every type of projectile attack known to videogames in here. Balance-wise I'd have stuck to randomly iterating through a list of available attacks which haven't been executed yet (even though this again presents the issue of being able to speedkill a boss so quickly that only getting the easy attack first lets you luck out as it lets you deal damage more easily). I can't say I've ever been in an impossible situation as a result of RNG despite what many claim, I'd have to record the footage and analyze what I could have done in those split seconds in reaction to the attack to really come to such a conclusion, though I haven't seen anybody do that yet. Maybe this could have been balanced itself out if you had to defeat all the bosses in one go where eventually the RNG could give you a free pass but the game would go on long enough that eventually the RNG could really fuck you over (see Ghouls' N Ghosts again). But then nobody would play Cuphead for it being too hard.
That depends if you're going for a '$1 for 1 hour' mentality. I've spent more than $20 on arcade games which people would say last less than an hour, even though the real challenge is derived from trying to 1cc the damn thing which could take hours. Ironically, if you look on YouTube for full 1lc boss runs you'll see that killing each boss will take you around 40 minutes total, just like my arcadey games. But on a first playthrough it can be stretched out to 5-6 hours on average through sheer difficulty alone, and then some on Expert, simply because it is structured like a campaign mode rather than a continuous run, even though I'm positive it would have been better and had more room for innovation as a single gauntlet, but it'd have people complaining that it's too hard or too short which is what happened to another recently released arcade-styled game, one I consider better than Cuphead, Nex Machina, which is also being sold for $20. I'd think Cuphead would be even better if it fully embraced its Alien Soldier roots, but even the so-called patricians here would balk at the idea of having to practice 40-minute runs or die and start over.

I really can't agree with this because of one game I played: Cho Ren Sha 68K (see .gif). It's a shmup with gameplay as barebones as you can possibly think of, especially in a genre of weapon switchin' polarity switchin' hyper chainin' rank controllin' force pod maneuverin' gender switchin' point blankin' background enemy lockin' bullet grazin' bullet reflectin' beam duelin' bullet cancelin' weapon usage balancin' speedkillin' medal chainin' games. You shoot some straightforward bullets, and you have a limited amount of bombs to clear the screen from bullets. You have to shoot the enemies down. That's mostly it. There's power-up carriers which drop a rotating triangle of which you can pick either a weapon power-up, a shield which lets you absorb one hit, or a bomb, or you can position yourself in the middle of the triangle to get all three, which gives you score bonuses if you already have maxed out the respective pick-up, but aside from not dying and not bombing, there's barely anything involved to the scoring other than shooting down enemies, and not getting hit/not using bombs (there's some extra shenanigans in the second loop, but let's set that aside).

Yet within inner circles, CRS68K is considered one of the best doujin shmups and one of the best shmups to have ever existed. And it's not because of its presentation, this is a genre where fancy looking enemies and great music is an universal constant, and CRS68K doesn't stand out in particular with its fancy looking enemies and great music, even though it only has one constantly looping background because it was mostly developed by one guy. It's because of one thing only: stage design. CRS68K has some really fucking good stage design. Each stage has its own gameplay theme without venturing into gimmick territory through newly introduced enemies, and that theme is constantly built upon and expanded upon within its stage. Simple creative waves get constantly mixed up to the point of a crescendo as the stage ends in one big blast before you encounter the stage boss. It's similar to what other already excellent games do, but despite having simple as shit gameplay which any casual onlooker would describe as unoriginal, CRS68K manages to stand out from dozens of 2hu clones just because of that. And that got me thinking, if a game with a premise and gameplay concept that is so overdone and so by-the-book manages to execute its own concept so damn well, is the lack of surface-level innovation something to hold against CRS68k as a detriment to the game or your enjoyment thereof? I don't believe it is, and I certainly haven't seen any other game with stages laid out almost identically to CRS68K. Even through execution you can innovate. And even for shmups it's beginner-friendly, it's freeware, and it can run on any toaster, so nobody has an excuse to not play it. Just looking at the surface at games to determine whether they are interesting is just dishonest when you sidestep the element of execution entirely.
This is not really something I can argue with since there's always room for improvement and expansion in games, and quite frankly I would have loved to see Cuphead do something similar myself. But that's only pertaining what you can parry or not. I don't think you can make the case that all bosses in Cuphead are too samey and identical.

I think that's more of a result of the direction they went with the bosses. You can't really manipulate bosses in Cuphead the same way you can in Furi for example, because the bosses in Cuphead are often bigger than you are and take up a huge amount of screen space, so there's not a lot of space to make them move around in compared to Furi's human-sized bosses and their bigger arenas. It also comes to no surprise that Furi's speedkill strategies are more elaborate than Cuphead's (and also why I prefer Furi over Cuphead), though I wouldn't know whether to attribute that to Cuphead just being limited by design because of its genre. I guess you could expand the mechanics to fit in some 2deep4u combat system, but at that point we're talking about changing the game to suit our tastes, and not necessarily improving what it is already trying to accomplish (being a boss rush run 'n gun). Which is why I think saying a mechanic is bad because it is overdone in other games is dismissable criticism since it is more of a matter of taste, as opposed to making a case to improve existing mechanics or why they just contradict the rest of the game. Like how meeting the parry slap requirement for S-ranks can run counter against speedkilling. And can be fixed by removing the redundant parry slap requirement since it is already implicit with the time requirement which can be met easier by slapping, performing supers, and thus killing the boss faster.

Concerning RNG, I think it adds more to Cuphead than it detracts, considering some aspects of its implementation are questionable like you said and there's plenty of room for improvement. One of my biggest gripes with Contra: Hard Corps/Gunstar Heroes is that too many boss attacks are a case of trial 'n error with nothing to really make them challenging once you figure them out, considering that there's not enough RNG to involve reacting on the fly to sudden changes in enemy attacks, so you're mostly doing the same shit over and over. The first stage in Hard Corps is a perfect example as the first bit has you deal with a classic Contra zako rush, but the rest are all boss fights with 100% predictable attack patterns. Which is why I opt for the stage routes which contain the most RNG because they're the most fun. At least Alien Soldier had the element of long-term ammo/weapon management to make you improvise if you mess up. I don't know if you've played those games, but I found myself wishing for Cuphead's RNG-heavy bosses at times when playing those games. Though if you did, I'd wonder what you think they did better than Cuphead.

Directly approach the fucking topic. Jesus Christ you could condense this entire list of words in less than 1 post.

Again though there's no occurrences where the enemies spawn rates will be so insanely difficult to the base difficulty that it creates an issue.
In the sense that multiple patterns die down and bosses have a final push segment that are often easier because you're on your last legs.
Then you're lying or are very lucky. There's situations where getting out of taking damage requires forethought that's insanely above the rest of the game. In any case you're rambling on about possibilities and chances when my primary point is that it's the lack of balance that gives this game it's flaw.
The game should give you the time you put into your money. Comparing Arcade games to it is more of an addictive elemet and has nothing to do with the topic. Again directly approach what I'm saying here.
Cho Ren is a bullt hell shmup. That being said there's millions of Bullet hell Shmups. And your entire fucking wall of words don't relate because the game came out in 95. If it came out today I'de be calling it just as shit though I haven't played it. If it's as simple as you say I'de say it shouldn't cost more than $5. And if that's the case I'de have no problem with it.
There's no such thing as being limited by design or a genre.
Not even deep. Just something that I havn't fucking experienced for the 13th time this year. Cupheads still restrained by to many conventions to actually make it worth the asking price or be above a 6/10.
I bet you're one of those guys who thinks everything is subjective. If your "taste" is for a game like cuphead then you have objectively shit taste. The way the game works is inconsistent and focuses on arbitrary goals and calls the accomplishment of those goals skill.
The parry mechanic does contradict the game in more ways than one as I've already mentioned. It's used to frequently to the extent where it loses its engagement factor later on and the game judges you on using it often.
It adds shit. Cuphead could have had a few minor changes to its RNG would have made the game a solid 7-8/10. Such as more balanced patterns or maybe just the developers realizing when there was a big spike in difficulty and making those moments dedicated moments once a certain amount of health was removed. There's plenty of things they could have done to make the RNG more tolerable but they didn't.
I wouldn't call that a gripe. You're playing a game where the patterns are without any random element. Many people enjoy that. What you shouldn't defend is when skill can be thrown out the window because the game is so random you can't predict if the boss will be a cakewalk or hell. You can call it a overstatement if you like but I have beaten bosses because of this when I never deserved the grade.

No seriously though I'm not going to reply to this shit if you can't shorten your statements. If I made an earnest attempt at replying to every offhand point you repetitively make it would be 3 posts minimum. Figure out what you're trying to say and directly respond to it. Most of this shit's just waffling and only barely covers my points.

Is this mkultra?

STOP

No, it's some think tank's meme made a few years ago. The normalfags still can't let go.

I don't really get what you mean with the whole lack of balance. You mentioned Steamboat Willie, but that guy is easy regardless of what he throws at you. I feel like we're straying from actual examples too much.
What would those other twelve games be? Just askin' out of curiosity, since you come off as a genre aficionado who plays tons of the highest quality run 'n guns, so I'd figure you know some better examples. I guess those other twelve games would also have to stand out in some way that Cuphead doesn't, which might be worthwhile to point out what Cuphead could've done to stand out more.
I'm really curious, because when people are referring to oversaturation of sidescrollers on the market they're mostly referring to roguelike metroidvania stuff as opposed to the more arcade-styled games such as Cuphead and Super Meat Boy. For all the 'it's just another run 'n gun' criticism Cuphead gets, I barely see 2D sidescrollers getting discussed here on Holla Forums outside classic console threads. I find it strange people would get tired of something they never really bothered to begin with, else I would expect more people bragging about their Contra 1cc. It'd be silly to talk about genre stagnancy without establishing a point of reference.
I'm referring to people who see any game with mechs and then blast it if it doesn't have any mech customization regardless of whether it fits the game. It'd be cool, but there's no point to blast a game for what it isn't. That'd only be your own misplaced expectations, like those who expected combat akin to DMC in Furi and then blasted it for not being deep enough.
The majority of your rank is still determined by not taking hits and speedkilling which is by far the hardest part to accomplish, parry slaps are the bonuses on top. I wouldn't add a parry slap requirement either, but it's hardly incredibly detrimental.
Again, that's overblowing it when parry slapping is for some bosses bona fide required for survival when it's used as a means of platforming, see King Dice's card, Bon Bon's huge candy, and the entirety of Phantom Express. But it's not particularly integral to the gameplay either, I WISH more bosses made use of parry slapping for platforming as you somehow implied it already did. That way it'd come off as more of a core part of your moveset than a one-off trick you can use when a boss shoots something pink at you.
Speedkilling a boss fast enough to prevent him outright from getting to his trickier attacks seems like something that would encourage aggression more. One phase being noticeably easier or harder than the other isn't something I'd consider a huge deal when it's a separate phase on its own, as I find that the last phases are usually the hardest.
Most of the final phases aren't all that random to begin with for such disparity of luck to occur, especially when I look at this video of some guy no damage s-ranking every boss on Expert, though I guess you could point out where this guy got lucky (or where you did). You then might get lucky for the first few phases (or not), but I don't see you can do the same later on when things are more difficult and consistent. Besides, if there's a combination of random variables which could lead you to getting fucked over, then after dying you should at least be able to predict part of that.

For a 6/10 I'd expect that the bosses themselves are badly flawed in some way or another given that this game lives and breathes on its bosses, but most of your criticism I feel is directed on some mechanics in particular which kinda comes off as nitpicking. There's still the whole jumping gunning dodging pizazz of which the game consists 80% of, but I guess that's just 'nothin special'?.

is any body really going to cry reddit if it's formatted as such:

text

text

text

Does it matter? His patterns are still incredibly unbalanced as they often are in most other boss fights.
I don't give a shit about genre. Just how the game functions and works. And the game doesn't function to its fullest in cuphead. Their not even the same genre either. As far as genre's similar to Cuphead that have come out this year Cuphead is likely in the top three's. But given how shit the industry currently is that's still nowhere above a 6/10.
I've already stated what it could have done to stand out more. Less parry cancer, more varied boss fight mechanics, balanced fights and stripping away half of the items and abilities.
Cuphead isn't arcade style in the slightest. Super Meat Boy even less so because it's a platformer.
Maybe that's because modern games are typically a shit? Cuphead doesn't compare to older titles outside of animation effort. I'de rather play just about any similar game on the NES than it.
And they're right. But only partially. The naturalized concept of mechs is that they're machines. The ability to customize it should be a given. Otherwise why make them mechs?
I'm expecting a game with mechanics that fit the gameplay already in Cuphead.
And is also determined partially by a random fucking pattern. Jesus I've already stated this, if you're going to use it as an argument acknowledge the points I've already brought up.
They're not bonuses if they're absolutely necessary for the retarded grading system.

The last phases are often easier actually. You're just near the end so you think they're harder. The game (like many games) try and trick you into thinking it's harder by increasing the musics temp and texture while making the animations more hectic. When you get down to the actual difficulty though the bosses patterns stop changing and they're incredibly more simple to deal with.
Not talking about final phases. And they're (again) not harder.
What the fuck is there beyond a game than it's game mechanics? That's the fundamental framework for it to be a game. And when said mechanics don't work in cohesion to one another then yes that grade can be dragged down to a 6/10. And "in particular" would imply there was much more to the mechanics than what I've already stated. The game you've said yourself is incredibly simple.
That 80% is what I'm talking about. You're acting like your movement and the bosses patterns in which you're using your movement to directly influence are 2 separate things. But I'll break this down real quick.
Hurt by parry being implemented in every fight, often in boring ways
Half the guns in the game are useless as is 2/3rds of the specials
Completely dependent on the bosses pattern variety, which often fucks you or does nothing to challenge you

At that point it's less about being reddit and more about bloating the post with useless spacing. Why the fuck do you need to have spacing between every greentext anyway? Is it seriously that hard for you to digest the material? If we did that we would have to make an extra post just to compensate retard.

Maybe if you have a wall to post like you. If it's a smaller post, who gives a fuck? I'm more concerned with the quality of what's written, not how it's written. I just want to talk about video games, not the culture of the board.
Speaking of which, how hard is the rest of Cuphead after the third isle? Last I played I got stuck on the ghost train, and that was really ass to deal with. It feels like most of the boss design was focused on throwing tons of shit at you, rather than having a few mechanics that are actually challenging. It ends up feeling more frustrating after a while, and not as rewarding

Then why are you even commenting?
We do both to make sure people know what to expect when they come here. Formatting is a good indication as to if they aren't. You space your posts when you move on to another topic. In this case I don't switch topics so I don't.

Boy are you in for disappointment. That's all I'll say.

Whatever happened to just telling people to lurk more?
Fug
I'll still buy it when I have a chance. It was fun for what it is.

They stopped listening.
Maybe when it's on sale, and definitely not on Steam. I'm personally waiting for the sequel to not be shit then I'll just purchase both.

This game is overrated as fuck. The art-style is about everything it has going on for itself since all the other stuff has been done before and better by other run and gun games. Of course that with enough free publicity by retards it became a meme.

I don't really get this unbalance meme. He sends the squid, you do nothing. He sends the shark, you stay on the right. He sends the seals, you jump every now and then. Nothing hard about it. And then there's the easily predictable cannon shots, hanging barrel, and his gunshots, which then proceeds to heavily telegraphed lasers and sine wave bullets (while minding the hanging barrel somewhat). I don't fucking see it.
Then I hate to disappoint you, but with such a broad scope you are bound to bemoan the lack of depth in most of these run 'n gun games. It might not seem like it, but this is really one of those rare stand-out examples. With your mindset you might find that Contra and Metal Slug may not have as much going for them as you think, not even the newer games in the genre, which is why I'm so curious about what you think about those games. For another similar game, try Bleed 2 and see if it has that depth you wanted in Cuphead.
You've got every kind of projectile type, background enemies, zakos, shmup stages and practically every attack is available in Cuphead, just look at this video. You keep crying for more parry colors, but for bosses I get the idea you don't know exactly what you want to begin with. This would have been easier to deal with if you noted some examples, which is why I'm namedropping these games all the time.
Of which there is a limited amount of permutations you can predict and prepare for, even though most of it is clearly telegraphed and can be solved with reflexes alone. If you took the time to recognize the situations which could possibly arise, you could anticipate and react actually accordingly. Even if you are uncertain, you could position yourself to take no chance regardless of what comes. Take Dracula in CV1. He'll perform an attack where he'll randomly teleport to either your left or right during which you can either jump away or strike him at the same time. It's all reflexes, but you know it'll be either left or right. Expand that train of thought, and you get Cuphead.
I thought you were just complaining how impossible it was at times because of RNG.
There already were trampoline enemies in the circus stage. But this doesn't improve things either, it's just about your fixation against parrying.
It's about proper jump control and positioning to be able to properly slap them. You can't just walk or jump up there for a free parry, try parrying the pink bar when it's about to fall on the cart in Phantom Express. But that's really every kind of dodge or parry mechanic that exists – a matter of timing. You're really not going to find much better out there.
What matters not is your moveset itself, but about how you use it. Who cares about simple concepts when you have that execution thing again? What did all the old games do with their simple-ass movesets? Do you really think you can make the case that every boss challenges you in pretty much the same way? You're ignoring the bosses themselves too much! You only mutter 'bad RNG' like a magic spell and that's it as far as boss design is concerned.
I'm looking at the bosses right now for reference and most of the final phases have way more shit going on compared to the previous ones, on top of being more consistent. So I really don't know where you're getting this from.
Execution. Doom's gameplay and enemies are nice and all, but if all levels were big squares or straight hallways it'd be Wolfenstein 3D 2.
So these pink items of indeterminate trajectory actually test your jumping prowess if you feel you are up to the task and you say it hurts the jumping? That I don't get.
Yes.

I barely found myself hoping for one attack over the other, aside from the ones with pink bullets I can parry. There's always a trick to each attack, which I don't think makes one attack preferable over the other. It's only in combination with other factors that even simple attacks can be dangerous. But I'm not really sure if this is worth arguing about anymore. It's basically your word against mine now.

what games were those and what did they do better

I'm talking about r'n'g gameplay. Those games would be most of the Metal Slug series, Contra 3, Alien Soldier and shit.

correct answer
I wish

For a while the "employees" went without pay to actually work on the animation to get it out because they're a tight knit group of friends, not employees of a corporation.

What?

You can simplify every move you have to make that way. Quit using words in retarded ways such as that or I could just say "you get shot by kill robot, you move to the bottom right" and so on. There are patterns in the game from nearly every boss that are RNG dependent on how difficult they will be. You need to get over this or agree to disagree like I said so many posts ago.
Not really no. I don't know how many times I need to say this but the primary issue with Cuphead isn't a lack of depth. It's an issue with the simple mechanics not working together.
I played Bleed 1. It was a bunch of ideas that went nowhere but had a lot of opportunity.
There's no "types". They're projectiles that have patterns. Much of those patterns are more difficult or more easy than others which is the problem.
I'm not crying specifically for parry colors. That would imply parry needed to stay. I'm saying there's no need for such a hindrance on a game that has no need for such a thing.
It addresses telegraphing and doesn't bring up anything I'm talking about. Quit trying to divert and divide the points I'm making here.
I shouldn't have to. My complaint is the lack of coordination between mechanics. Not what it should borrow from other games.
And of which are much more difficult than others.
Some are more telegraphed than others and some CERTAINLY are more difficult to deal with.
I complained the pink object RNG when it is evident is impossible at times. The few examples you named by no means are the majority and you know that.
More like it adds nothing by being a parry. The card segment in itself isn't terrible but it doesn't have any weight FOR parrying than it does against it.
We've been over this. The game gives you a larger time window to parry and jump control is already integral to the game without the parry function. It adds nothing and is hampered down due to the retarded grading system. I'm sick of repeating myself here.
Timing is already a key component to the game. Parrying just adds to it in a meaningless way more often than not. It needs accuracy or dexterity components for example to actually add anything. I already mentioned the aura idea and the perk concept.
You're already fucking limited by it.
The execution is limited by the lack of actual mechanics you dullard.
Often simpler games had other aspects. Like more linear travel.

They would if the RNG wasn't so dependent on weather you won or loss.
How the fuck does the bosses RNG have nothing to do with the boss themselves? You can't remove a bosses patterns and then argue the bosses themselves aren't integral. Jesus listen to what you're typing here.
Answered your own question. If the bosses only had 1 pattern with the same layers they would all be a cake walk. The issue with the patterns before this is the lack of balance.
Is completely reliant on the mechanics. If you have no mechanics you have no execution.
Level design isn't execution. Again that's a mechanic.
More like they're random to the point that they often fire in ass backward directions and the game's method of making them an incentive to get is poorly thought out. "being up to the task" is one thing. but if it's never actually beneficial aside from increasing the only useful super that is diminished by a broken grading system then it's boring.
6/10 game.
More like you're conveniently telling a lie here. There's patterns that offer more pink objects, more room to breath and much less difficulty in almost every fight.
Some of which are much easier and much harder to pull off than others.
We've played the same game. You're conveniently brushing over its flaws in favor of this "execution" shit which I've addressed several times. I can play cuphead in any execution manor I want. In the end the execution is determined by a poorly thought out dice roll.

The inbetween stages are mostly linear, especially when dashing past everything. Most bosses in the game are fairly straightforward and have about two/three attacks each. Only some of them, like Giant Crab, Seven Force's final form, Big Shrimp, Whirlwind Robot, Epsilon-2, Wolfgun Garoppa and Z-Leo have some random factors to them to really spice them up. But bosses being largely static not a really bad thing, since the weapon/ammo system does a good job of encouraging on-the-fly improvisation anyways.

It's still a better game than the extremely childish Cuphead.

basically they're pissed that a down syndrome child can't beat it

shitter detected

I still believe that FNAF twerk is his magnum opus

classic megaman isnt hard, but megaman 9…
Fuck that fucking pink elephant

so what did they do better?

Cuphead is fun.

...

I have to agree, the FNAF one is even more autistic

The only reason people can't drive stick is because driving schools have you learn on automatic

So I played Cuphead with the gotta get the A+ each mission mindset and by the end of it I still felt that the game still needed more to sink my teeth into, felt like there was something more that needed to be there, 2nd Isle seemed to be the games peak in challenge, by then the difficulty of the game is established but now each boss will challenge you in a various set pieces so maybe one you find harder then the other due what sort of challenges you struggle with over others (being an auto scroller, space shooter, spacial awareness) but they feel the same difficulty when you can cope with all of them from 2nd Isle and on.
Like honestly King Dice and the Devil in their current states felt like they should have been a single boss since king dice feels long enough to be like a run up stage but due to length chickens out on challenge and the Devil is too short.
Am I the only one who feels this?

Rayman 1's sprites and BG art were drawn by some old cartoonist, I'd imagine if rayman 1 was made now it'd go the cuphead route with being a old cartoon looking game.

Read my comment before you make retarded posts. The RNG doesn't determine you'll automatically lose. It just makes the game vary from easy to hard.

...

Manhead and his pal MugCup

Oh Lord lease don't let retarded fans and redditors ruin this wholesomely wonderful game. Truly dragonfags are just a preview of the terror that is to come.

FNAF didn't deserve as much shit as it got. It wasn't great, but it was enjoyable. The furfags just ruined it beyond recognition. Undertale deserved to be shamed though.

...

I want Grimm to rub all three of his wet matchsticks all over me until I'm really hot

I actually held a controller like that with a girl i liked.

You mean a fag spending $2000 dollars on scat porn then spamming random threads about it to try and piss people off and in the end it only got "banned" because Mark got pissed at the people who weren't shitposting having a legitimate point that there was no real reason to actually ban the threads other than him being too lazy to moderate them.
And then over the months a series of revisionist history about what happened in the threads to convince newfaggots that hadn't been around at the time that it's part of board culture to hate the game, because of shit tumblr does, which even admittedly the dude who made the game doesn't like at all but is to polite to tell them to fuck off?

...

But there are gay characters in the game user, it's one hundred percent degenerate and it's practically MKUltra programming to make you into a furry. Also the dev once mentioned the lack of homosexual characters in the Mother series so he's pretty much marxist scum. Take the redpill, nigger.
Alright, seriously now, they were fucking hilarious the first two weeks the game released but from there on we had pretty much discussed everything the game had to offer and it went on a downwards spiral towards meaningless shitposting and arguments, plus the tumblr fandom making cringe material 24/7 and the other anons constantly accusing the threads of being nothing but a furry porn dump. The threads were fueled from spite alone and had to die, but it's unfortunate that instead dying a natural cause from eventual lack of interest they died from angry shitposting. I still wonder what schizo fuck came up with the idea that Undertale was MKUltra programming. How bizarre

MEMEGAME

Regardless, they didn't deserve what had happened, and Mark is a bitch for getting bullied by essentially, just 3 people if I remember correctly

MEMEGAME2

Alright so what the fuck am I supposed to do during the final phase of the fight? If I try to shoot downward, I usually end up taking her propeller up the ass because holding down and pressing jump makes my character move down a platform. I have to initially jump before aiming down, and I have this habit of holding down before I jump because of years of habit and muscle memory from other platformers. Aside from breaking this habit, is there any other reliable way to attack her? Seems like she's not vulnerable very often, although there's like a brief moment where it seems like I can attack from her side as she's using the saw attack

Do you have lobber?

I'll try it.

Why is he a cup? I don't get it.

We're all cups user.

Alright, let's analyze each boss to see how random they truly are (on Expert).

The Root Pack. Pretty easy, but that's to be expected from the first boss fight in the game.
The potato will always shoot three dirt balls and a pink worm with a constant delay between each shot. Each volley will have increased projectile speed compared to the previous one, up to the third volley. After each third one the projectile speed will go back to the first volley. RNG plays no factor here. The potato has enough HP for him to attack long enough and shoot at least three pink worms which will let you meet the parry requirement.

The Onion will cry and spawn tears from a random point from the top-left or top-right side of the screen for a random amount of time, each tear having the same speed. Past every fourth tear, there is a chance that the next one will be a pink (provided you do not deal a certain amount of damage and briefly interrupt his crying, the damage you deal while he's still coming out of the ground does count towards this and interrupt his next crying wave). Knowing that past each fourth tear a pink can spawn, you can certainly anticipate the next one, with the tear speed being decent enough to let you react in time. Though the parry requirement can already be met with the Potato alone, and the Onion can be speedkilled fast enough using the Super you built up with the Potato on top of using the Spreadshot that the Onion won't even have enough time to cry long enough for pinks to appear.

The Carrot will fire aimed psychic waves at you about twice. Flying carrots will spawn up top from random directions, but they're slow and easily destructible, especially with the Spreadshot, and do not pose a serious threat. Out of these the most challenging one would be the Potato given that you need to aim your jumps somewhat so you don't land in the trajectory of an incoming dirtball. But randomness doesn't really play even a minor role with this boss.

Goopy Le Grande is fairly simple to deal with. In his first phase he will bounce around at random angles. for 5-8 times until he winds up and strikes a large area in front of him. Even if you end up being pushed into a corner with no way to dash past him, the attack is simply avoidable by ducking. He can also randomly pause after a bit after bouncing in order to throw you off. The second phase is the same, except this time he's much larger and doesn't randomly pause. The final phase is fairly simple as he dashes left and right in the background for a random amount of times before trying to flatten you with his gravestone in a big telegraphed attack. The RNG here prevents his bouncing from becoming completely predictable, as when he bounces off the walls he can mess with your expectations somewhat. The three pink question marks which arise when he's about to enter his second phase can be slapped, which already meets your parry requirement. Here the pinks work more like a secret than anything. A simple boss for a simple beginning.

Ribby and Croaks provide a noticeable increase of difficulty here. For the first phase Ribby will always fire five bullets in a wave sequence, and there's three possible variations where two of these five are always pink. If you jump in anticipation, you can alter your trajectory in time to hit the first two at least, or rebound from the ground to jump and slap the third since it's high enough anyways. Meanwhile Croaks will spawn one or two bees at a random position on the top of the screen at a regular interval, which will move a limited distance towards you also at a regular interval. They can be destroyed fairly easily with the Homing or Spreadshot, so you want to get rid of them before Ribby shoots his punches. If they do bees do get spawned while Ribby is shooting, they're high enough by that point so you won't have to worry too much about running into them when parry slapping some of the higher pinks. By this time you should have also met the parry requirement. The bees might get tricky if you leave them alone given their random spawning position, but you can easily shoot them down anyways.

During the second phase Croaks turns into Air Man at the right side of the screen while Ribby either shoots three punches like in the previous phase, one random being a pink, or bouncing bullets with random bounce angles. The next phase they turn into a slot machine where you're supposed to slap the handle while dealing with a constant stream of aimed coins being shot at you. Then you have to randomly deal with either the dragon pattern (jumping either under or above platforms which spawn at an increasing speed) or snake pattern (jumping on top of platforms with spiked edges which move at an already fast but even more increasing speed). Jury's out on which one's the hardest of the two. The only bad RNG here would concern the random chance for Ribby to perform his punch attack in the second phase which lets you parry a pink for more super, as opposed to the bouncing bullets which let you slap nothing.

Hilda Berg presents the first shmup stage, and there's barely any RNG determining the appearance of several attacks to begin with considering considering most phases in this fight have one attack.
For her first phase she will laugh at you at a regular interval. During this time either purple or green planes wil regularly spawn. The green planes shoot a spreadshot, and the purple planes shoot a single aimed shot. However, you want to leave some purple planes alive because every nth of them will shoot a pink bullet, which won't happen if you kill them too soon. In the first phase, every second purple plane will shoot a pink bullet. If you keep shooting at Hilda she will enter her second phase before a second purple plane can even spawn (the amount of purple planes necessary for a pink to spawn is reset whenever a new phase has started), so ideally you want to hold off on damaging Hilda for a little bit until the second purple plane can spawn. But this way you're trading off damage spent in the short term so you can build up your super faster and deal more damage over the long term, netting you a better time if you do. This seems like an intentional thing on part of the developers.

For her second phase she will spawn a sun at the left side of the screen which fires a constant stream of straight bullets starting from a random angle and turning direction which is never aimed directly at you from the start. At this point in the fight every [i]third[/i] purple plane will fire a pink bullet. If it was the same in the first phase, the aforementioned trick would waste too much time. The third phase is the same as the first, except that only green planes spawn and she will randomly fire an aimed tornado at you.

For her fourth phase she will fire straight arrows on top of three homing stars which can be shot down. The planes spawn as usual here. The fifth phase is the same as the third, except this time two planes will spawn at once, which can be either a green and a purple (thanks doc) or two purples. And in this case, the purple with in the green/purple pair will always fire pink. For the final phase she will turn into a moon, as three types of stars will be thrown at you at random while you have to deal with a random arrangement of incoming UFO's at the top of the screen which shoot laser beams from their belly. The yellow ones will start firing if you get close, so you have to bait them, whereas red ones will only start firing the moment you get under them. Combine this with the bullets from the left and you got yourself a good challenge. Here every sixth star rotating 360 degrees (not the shurikens or the ones rotating around their own axis) will be a pink one, though the spawning for each type is seemingly random. I didn't really keep track. The RNG here mostly determines object positioning, as most of the spawning order is largely fixed, meaning it can't randomly turn from hell to a cakewalk.

Cagey Carnation is the last boss of Isle One and fittingly the hardest as well. The first phase is a clusterfuck. Cagey will shoot five seeds in the air which will drop down into the ground and sprout into plants spawning chompers which either doze around or slowly home in on you. One of these five seeds will at random be a pink which can be slapped, which is especially useful later on as being able to slap incoming seeds will have you deal with less chompers. However, if you let a pink seed sprout, it will spawn a flying flower instead which hovers at the top of the screen and shoots a pink every 8-9 seconds until it is killed. If a flying flower is already present, then the next pink seed will spawn a chomper instead. However, if you slap a pink seed WHILE a flying flower is active, then the next pink seed while sprout ANOTHER flying flower which also shoots pinks at you, which you can slap for an even faster super charge.

Given that the spawning rate of seeds and chompers is fairly ruthless with both chompers and platforms getting in the way of your parry, you'll need to make some free space in advance, but incoming seeds by either the flying flowers and Cagey are fairly well telegraphed. In the second and third phase no seeds will spawn anymore, but the flying flowers will remain. Again, it's up to you whether you are enough of a badass to handle incoming pink bullets while dealing with the shit in the second and third phase, on top of not accidentally killing them. In the second phase Cagey will either shoot a flying flower petal over the platforms which then boomerangs back to the bottom of the screen, create four homing acorns, or whack either the top or bottom lane of the arena. In his final phase he will stick a thorn up one of the platforms and then immediately right after on is telegraphed, do so with another platform. Sometimes you just need to jump to the next, sometimes you need to dash over. The best course of action is to stay on the edge platforms so you have enough time to react. He will also shoot sine wave flowers, of which either every second flower and every third after that (or vice versa) will be a pink. It's considerably easier than the first phase, but the final phases places a higher emphasis on testing reflexes as opposed to planning.

The RNG in the first phase is consistently hell no matter what you do. The attacks in the second phase aren't too tough. The flower petal might be easier to deal with than the acorns, but he'll usually follow up flower petals with acorns anyways, so you need to deal with both. After three attacks (be it petals or acorns) he'll do a guaranteed stretching attack. For his final phase which one of the three platforms he decides to sting is mostly random, as are the amount of flowers he shoots. The only permutation where you can't reliably parry pinks from the flying flowers if a pink is shot at the same time when Cagey stretches over the top lane, but besides that the difficulty per phase remains consistent and parrying is used to an unique extent here.

Baroness von Bon Bon is a bit of a mini boss-rush, as for the first three phases you'll have to fight a randomly picked three out of five bosses. These five being either a cornhead moving in a fixed rectangular direction while descending/ascending in the middle on top of spawning some rising mini-corns. The muffin will jump and bounce diagonally and create a shockwave every time he lands. The jawbreaker machine will shoot arcing jawbreakers in random angles, but it's nothing too impossible, especially not with Smoke Bomb since you can dash through him. Pacman is fairly easy, though. So is the Waffle. Actually most of the mini-bosses are aside from the Muffin, because his shockwaves last too damn long. Unfortunately the chance for bean soldiers to be pink appears to be entirely random too. The final phase does remain the most challenging one, as you need to deal with two homing heads and giant rolling candy, making enough space to misdirect the heads so you can jump on the candy platform safely. Not my favourite.

Djinni the Great is a pretty cool guy, my only gripe is his first phase, where his treasure chest can either contain a random aimed spread of jewels, dozens of slowly homing cat statues, or swords that spread out in random directions and then make a beeline towards you. The pink chance isn't completely equal here. The jewel spread will always contain four parriable diamonds, whereas the swords will only have one and sometimes two pink swords whereas for the cats it seems to be entirely random. Past that everything is fairly consistent, though I guess the sword pattern is the more easier one. The second phase will have you destroying parts of a stack of which one or two random parts are destructible and need to be flown through, while dodging a saw which bounces at random directions.

For the third phase you'll face a Cuphead puppet while Djinni's hat will move around randomly until it finds a position and shoots in four directions while rotating, as the puppet constantly shoots at you too, with every fourth bullet being a pink. The final phase actually manages to be the most challenging since it's all about prediction. There are some big telegraphs for the pyramids shooting out a laser in the four cardinal directions which is tricky to avoid with the other pyramids you can run into on top of Djinni's psywave, though you can misdirect that one. Difficulty wise there's no RNG-whiplashing here, only the parry chances for the first phase are more random than they should be.

Beppi the Clown isn't as hard as people say it is. For his first phase he'll ram you in a way which can be easily avoided, whereas the ducks can be shot at any time from any position and aren't that much of a threat since you can also dash through them. The spawning order of the ducks is actually a fixed order which starts at a random position, or so I believe. There's always a normal duck after a duck with a lightbulb, and after two lightbulb ducks there will be two normal ducks. The presence of the pink duck here is entirely random, however.

For the second phase, Beppi will start spawning destroyable beelining balloon enemies randomly from the corners of the screen. The amounts are also random (although seems to be again predetermined, you won't get a three dog spawn after another three/four dog spawn). Also, each fifth spawned dog is a pink (varies initially). The rollercoaster will come at regular intervals, with there being harmful passengers in always the 3rd, 6th and 9th cart. The second phase will only initiate once Beppi rams with his go-kart in the first phase AFTER having his health reduced beyond a certain threshold, meaning the rollercoaster will be telegraphed from the background even during the first phase as long as he took enough damage. This is important, because this lets you manipulate the rollercoaster timing to make the third phase a whole lot easier so you can stand under Beppi when he's doing whatever he's doing and only need to deal with him attacking while you're on the rollercoaster once, which is possible if you damage him fast enough. Though you can also manipulate the rollercoaster timing in the second phase if you draw it out a bit.

In the third phase he'll fly on either the left or right side on the screen with either a yellow or green horse. The green horse shoots two volleys of three sine wave bullets (with one guaranteed pink), whereas the yellow one spawns several horseirons which take up the top of the screen and make a direct descent, covering most of the screen save for a clear safe spot (and being under Beppi's horse). Only when the rollercoaster arrives does this really become a challenge, but the rollercoaster timing isn't RNG in the slightest as its arrival intervals are fixed and can be manipulated to your advantage. On the rollercoaster, I'd say having to deal with the yellow and green horse is about as equally hard, though the green horse's attack lasts a bit longer.

For his fourth phase he'll take up the center background while the rollercoaster will race through the bottom of the screen at a faster speed and with more passengers, and here you're supposed to jump on the moving platforms at the upper half of the screen. Again the rollercoaster intervals are fixed. After a rollercoaster Beppi will spawn four penguins which after a while will throw baseballs at you while you're already on the moving platforms trying not to fall on the rollercoaster, though this can be mitigated if you do your Super on the bottom, which lets you take out two or three of the four penguins, as their positioning is somewhat random, but the rest can be shot down normally. After that it's mostly point-blanking Beppi.

RNG doesn't play such a huge factor here. While the amount of dogs being spawned being random might seem like a big thing in the second phase, the dogs themselves are easily destroyed with the spreadshot which isn't that hard even with the rollercoaster. Even if you do find yourself in a tricky spot, you should have a super charged from the first phase and use it to speedkill Beppi in Phase 2, making you invincible while the dogs can't do much (unless you activate your super in the wrong position). Past that, there's not a whole lot of RNG seriously affecting anything at all.

Wally Warbles doesn't have a lot of knelling RNG to speak of either. During the first phase Daddy Bird can shoot up to three eggs in succession, which explode into reflecting bullets towards you when they hit the edge of the screen. Here he can also perform a large spreadshot attack. I haven't really noticed a pattern, but whatever the case each kind of attack seems to be used equally. On top of that you get waves of (harmless unless you come into contact with them) four birds moving in a straight line who come from a random position from the right, with the last one in the wave always being a pink. Daddy Bird has quite a lot of HP for his first two phases, so you definitely want to slap those pink birds. Of course, it's too easy to accidentally shoot them in a shmup stage like this, so either you should look for a better position or hold your fire. The delays between the egg attacks, be it successive or not, can be anticipated, and if you stayed away expecting a second and third egg in a row, better safe than sorry.

The fact that it's random can trick you into believing he'll only shoot one as you move in for the counterattack, only to get another egg in your face.

For the second phase Daddy will cover the screen in feathers which mostly involves micrododging, but aside from the zako bird waves there's nothing terribly random about this phase either. Nor is there anything random about the third phase, where Pinky the Brain floats around surrounded by a constantly contracting and expanding ring of spiked eggs while shoothing the occassional pink bullet. The only random thing is his movement path, but it's still incredibly tricky regardless of what direction he moves in. The final phase OTOH isn't terribly hard or random for that matter. It mostly consists of straight and arcing projectiles, but they're fairly slow compared to what you just had with more easily predictable trajectories. Every fifth(?) bluepill will also become a pinkpill. So here you have a boss where the RNG influence is rather minor, it's just rather difficult at its core.

Grim Matchstick I had no trouble with at all on Expert, despite what everyone else claims. it was hell to fight this guy on Normal, but now it was just a decent challenge. I had more trouble with Warbles than anything. I had to finish it once using the Peashooter only to check if I wasn't being memed. It is one of the most RNG-heavy games because of the random platform generation, not necessarily because of its attacks. The platforms come randomly, sometimes they even overlap, but they're always within jumping distance of eachother. The attacks themselves aren't too difficult to deal with either, given the clear telegraphing and adequate wind-up involved. Attack order is mostly random, though most of their challenge comes from jumping to another platform in time. I'm rather peeved that the psychic wave attack happens at random because it has the only slappable attacks in the fight (unless the kettlehead in the final phase also turns out to be slappable). The tail attack can be baited to happen at the edge of the screen once you get a feeling for its timing.

I hear the second phase is ridiculous, but it's really not. A quick glance at the flames about to jump will tell you what direction they will jump in given their stance, and since they always jump in an arc, the simplest way to deal with them is to jump over them the moment they get ready. The final phase isn't too difficult either. The flameballs are your everyday projectiles if you hold your fire so they don't split, and the kettle flamethrower attack is always aimed at the middle lane, with there always being plenty of platforms at the top, whereas it's dangerous to jump while on the bottom lane when there's hellfire raining above your head. It's got the right kind of unpredictability to keep you on your toes. While missing a platform was the largest cause of my deaths for this boss, in hindsight I did always see what I could have done instead to not take the hit. I don't think there's a particular platform arrangement which will be a help or a deathknell. It constantly varies, so even from this kind of perspectives you're probably going to get lucky and get fucked over equally in this fight. If only the parry requirements weren't as anally retentive for this fight.

I wish I had time to analyze Isle 3, but since it's already 3 AM here and this thread is already autosaging, so I don't have enough time left to test the rest out for myself.
To sum it all up, things are much more determinate than you think, and from what I just experienced I feel this massive whiplash in difficulty because of the RNG is just overblown with only some signs of it here and there. Within phases, I found that the difficulty remains largely consistent. Some of the later ones might be easier compared to previous ones, but save for the difficulty curve of all bosses as a whole I don't think that's worth complaining about too much. The only real outliers I found are Baroness Bon Bon and her harder Muffin miniboss, and Djinni's first phase. From what little I've seen I guess you could add Cala Maria and Queen Bee, though I don't think I would agree with Queen Bee too much since I feel what I said about Grim Matchstick could apply here as well. There's always a platform within jumping range, and people seem to forget you can duck under the zigzag bullets. Platforming despawning will only seriously occur for one column here.

It specifically addresses how the bosses in Cuphead try to kill you and what kind of attacks are used to accomplish that. Of which there are many.
It adds a bit of platforming challenge for performing tricky jumps when applicable, like getting bonus points for doing stunts. Conversely, I think I explained above how parrying changes the status quo of more than several boss fights which add another layer of challenge. There's usually more than enough opportunities to parry and there's quite frankly no reason why you shouldn't when possible.
YOU COMPLETELY DISREGARD HOW THOSE BASIC SIMPLE ASS MECHANICS GET CHALLENGED OVER THE COURSE OF NINETEEN WILDLY DIFFERENT BOSSES. Do you even consider for a moment how the bosses in Cuphead actually make the most out of those simple mechanics, or do you have another convenient overarching excuse for that?It doesn't matter outside a marketing standpoint how overdone or how simple the core mechanics are. Even through shit as simple as jumping and gunning can you find tons of unique examples which challenge that base concept. You can see this in puzzle games, how they can draw the most out of even the simplest concepts, where new mechanics there are equal to new attacks the bosses throw at you. You could say you want more so there's more to play around with, but when would it be enough? What's wrong with simple yet challenging gameplay? That's the pitfall with this line of reasoning, it's never deep enough.

It's the level design of games like Doom which make them so loved, not their gameplay. Just ask anyone. If the levels are shit, then the gameplay is wasted potential. If the bosses in Cuphead were HP-bloated over-RNG'd shit, then the gameplay would be shit no matter how unique or creative the core mechanics are. You say for some reason that levels are mechanics in themselves, but I think you're thinking of something else. Gameplay is used to interact with the levels and laid-out challenges, levels can't interact with themselves. It's not about what you have, but about how you use it. You can say Cuphead is 'nothing special' (compared to what anyways?) and you wouldn't be wrong, but that's no indication of quality or a lack thereof.
what
RNG here primarily decides attack order, firing angles, and the spawning positions of projectiles and enemies. So obviously there exist attacks which the RNG invokes, which also should be able to exist without RNG in a static fashion. You have nothing with just RNG. Though you're the one throwing out the baby with the bathwater for some reason by claiming you can't have boss patterns without RNG. It's important, but it could also do without it just fine. What I'm talking about is those attacks themselves.
If the above hasn't been clear enough, let me say it clearly: I flat out disagree that the RNG can cause such a massive whiplash in the difficulty of most boss fights to the point of being a massive detriment to the game or just particular boss fights, or that success is more easily determined by luck. I found that overall whatever the RNG can influence, that the difficulty will remain largely consistent, or fuck you over equally as it does help you out. If you think I'm bullshitting, feel free to point out what I happened to miss in my experiences with the game written above as to how I'm wrong.

I think the idea that parrying is somehow contradictory to the rest of the game's mechanics is silly, as it adds more to several boss fights no matter how simple you can call it as I have stated above to what it does. Save for the parry requirement for grading because it is a redundant requirement, not because it forces you to use a parrying which is supposedly bad for being overused and simple to execute which somehow breaks the whole system when the requirements are easily met in most cases. The problem lies more with uneven parry chances, which has less to do with the mechanic itself. Again, it feels like a giant overexaggeration on your part. As I just explained above, many pink appearances are in fact predetermined.

That's what Cuphead is. Nothin' special, but pretty good for what it is. It isn't even my GOTY, I didn't even plan on replaying it on Expert if it weren't for you, but I did it because I appreciated the game more than I really loved it. It was never really my cup of tea to begin with.

did you try just fucking her?

Alright yea no fuck off. I told you to condense your posts and you do this shit. This is no longer a debate, it's a filibuster. I could break down every boss and explain why your perception on each is fucked but I'm not wasting 1-2 hours on this shit. My points still stand. Most bosses have incredibly dependent difficulty RNG and if you want to provide an argument against it then look at then address them in more specific points.

Much of it's dependent on rng like I said before.
Again it's the lack of any depth that makes parrying a problem. Not the fact that it's possible.
They don't you faggot.
I already stated how they rarely do and how it still amounts to the same results.
Considering it's factually true I see no reason why you should get so assblasted over it.
It absolutely does if it means 4 hours of content for a $20 game.
Not in Cuphead.
Which often get repetitive and become easy once you understand the core mechanics. There's a reason why many of these games result into making things an easter egg hunt instead of giving you all the tools you need from the start.
Ok fucking lol. The level design in Doom is it's worst aspect about it by far. Jesus christ, no more I'm done. This isn't even a debate anymore. I get the feeling you're just completely absorbed in shit taste here now. There's no debating against somebody who's more invested in being right than being objective. If you're going to call me out on being wrong because I'm not willing to spend 16 [pots genuinely replying to your points brought up feel free to do so. I don't think anybody but you will blame me though. Enjoy your mediocre game.

They absolutely did. The threads were no longer about the game anymore.