Alternatives to MT and Lootbox??

how about you make a complete product and sell that to cover cost and make the community happy

Nix marketing and put that money into the game. Like fucking money makes a difference anymore when everyone is fucking overpaid to do the most basic of shit

All items are not available both ways in Warframe. Players make the excuse that you can sell items you've grinded for to obtain platinum from other players, but every bit of platinum still represents cash in DE's bank account.
I don't mind microtransactions as long as they are for persistent optional content, like costumes and such. Not consumables. Spend money, get what you want, not a 2% chance at maybe getting what you want.

You are part of the problem. No one is entitled to money, nor do people have any reason to feel they spent too little.

and that's how the devs keep their game running

what's wrong with supporting good devs?

Make a good game, sell the game, maybe add option to donate. Microtransactions up your ass, crusty faggot.

No shit, you fucking illiterate moron.

It's called having people pay money for your fucking game. Are you retarded enough to believe EA isn't lying through their teeth when they say lootboxes are needed to cover development costs?

How do you think they pay their developers, retard?

Or maybe, just maybe, developers can get rid of all their diversity quota's and start hiring based on merit again which would drive development time down, use less resources, and lower the cost of production all while creating better games.

Just make a normal fucking game like people have been doing profitably for years.

Having dlc/microtransactions automatically prevents them from having the right to be called a good dev.

People have had that model for years it was called making a game people actually wanted to play so they would give you money and it was very profitable until retards came in and ruined it for a quick buck.

make artbooks
the only dlc i ever want for a game is the concept art books

Seriously? Those always manage to just make me depressed. I'd rather have cloth maps or game encyclopedias written in character.

so, you expect dev, whose game are already playable for free. to do anything for you for free?

Or they could just make a NORMAL FUCKING GAME and charge you for said game. People have been doing this for decades and it makes money.

F2P is a cancerous format and shouldnt exist.

I would always rather pay the 20/40/60/whatever bucks to get all the content now & forever, opposed to F2P grinding bullshit.

...

cost also skyrocketed in recent decades.

Because they hire twenty million people to work on a fucking game and then spend half a fucking billion dollars marketing it. Guess what there is a ton of useless spending you can cut out right there.

What this nigga said. Does every game require extensive mocap, VA or VA stuntcasting bullshit, badly done hostile out of touch yet still expensive marketing.
The answer is no. Those things add to the cost with little or dubious returns.

1st: make a good game
2nd: charge a just price
3rd: store.steampowered.com/app/493950/Coffee_for_Coding/
What is this? Simple, they directly asks for money, no bulshit, not trying to fool anyone, just fucking directly asks for more money.
Now let's look at some of the reviews:
"The developers made a very good game at a very reasonable price.
They do NOT gouge their customers with BS overpriced DLC. Instead they give free DLC and ask for support in a very non-intrusive manner.
Here's your coffee….more coding please! "
Another one:
"Hard to review a donation, but I can say I've been very happy with Thea and the constant Free updates it gets.
If you play this game and want a way to give the developers back something for putting out back to back free DLC + extra content patches, then I highly suggest we pitch into thie coffe for code fund :)
What better way to fund continued content and support? "
If you worked extra for a game that everybody likes, gave free DLC and fixed bugs, did not overcharge and did not try to fool the players…Well, imo you DESERVE a reward, just ask like these guys…People will give you money because they loved the game, because they find it fair… Stop treating your customers like idiots and start to treat us like people just like you that deserve the same respect that you expect without giving any…

Fucking VAs goddamn you know they want fucking royalties now too? Christ the fucking devs don't get fucking royalties they could save money by going back to text only and the games would be better for it.

For a start, fucking kikes can learn to fucking put a scope on expected sales.
Everyone and their mom is looking to make the next big thing, but all you need to do is limit the scope and get a good fit in a niche.

A small profit is still a profit.
But fucking kikes are greedy, that's why everything sucks

...

And you also have indie games and similar low poly games having a sizable market. And people shelling out cash for what would've been a free flash/browser game 10 or 15 years ago.

That's because the Warframe threads have been showing up for years by now. Not consistently but around major updates it'll show up. There's still an Holla Forums clan playing.

Where are people getting this from? It's easier than ever to develop games with all the engines already made out there. If the money is going anywhere it's for the advertising and artists (who shit out skins any teenager can make before making them into MTs instead of enhancing the base game).

there is a plat to credit conversion in the market but you would have to be brain ded retarded to even think about that

false

only previous prime frames. it was a jewish tactic and now the grind for those frame are even more tedious. see blue dots. ember prime got unvault this year and she is already 80$ of plat to even buy. then it will go up to 1000p for the systems alone. it has done it 3 times before and they will do it again.

the only thing DE is doing right is updates are free and they haven't sank to the point of where transactions is more important than playing the game.

Gotta keep the anti-competition demoralization up at all costs, user.

MAKE A COMPLETE FUCKING GAME
STOP SPENDING BILLIONS ON MARKETING
FIRE ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO MAKE YOU MARKET TO PEOPLE WHO NEVER BUY SHIT

Whoa there fag how am I going to qualify for these government grants if I don't write off a few losses?

But it was big publishers who started inflating development costs and marketing budgets, trying to turn vidya into bland nu-Hollywood. Publishers are disappointed when a game "only" sells a million copies.
How about we focus less on trying to milk the customer dry with sneaky schemes? How about we move away from expensive, shiny, bland games? Graphicshitters and normalkikes fucked this hobby hard.

It's not even graphics that make these games so expensive it fucking stupid suits that know nothing about video games thinking that putting all the money into marketing will double their investment when they would need to sell more games than there are people to play them to make their money back. It's all just morons thinking that just because you invest money into something that you will get even more back.

Feel free to watch it or not, I forgot that youtube link people use to not generate views.

Trips tells truth. That VA shitshow featuring the Burch's and the same usual roster of no talent fuckers. The whole damn industry needs a complete purge to clean out the horse shit.

The solution to this was Christianity. Jesus kicked the moneychangers out and the western world mostly avoided this vice for almost two thousand years.

Are you the same guy who shills that shitty non-webm video in every thread?

Nope, so it was linked before?

What about the model in place before the seventh console generation? no microtransactions at all

You're saying we should have communism fund game development then. Yes, that will turn out well won't it.

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That's a nice strawman you're beating there but I'll bite. He didn't go after capitalism, He went after usury. The act of charging interest on loaned money means that all wealth will eventually be concentrated in the hands of those who provide the loans, as they essentially get paid for temporarily being less rich. Charging interest is a sin and has been for Millennia.

It's funny how the rise of smartphones actually hurt videogames that aren't on smartphones

...

We all know what commie fund games will be like…

Yes user he made food. If Jesus was communist he would have starved them all to death in a prison camp for not having any food for everyone.

Well what you do right is you make a game.
Just like, get the game and make it.
Then you put in a box, like the whole game.
Just slip it all in there, don't sweat it.
You sell that box with the game inside for cash money.

If you find you need more money you make another game.

stop pissing money away on bad marketing, mts are pure greed

this tbh

some of the best games ever produced were made with like a dozen people

The moneychangers were kikes, lad. He's suggesting nazism.

Here’s Rep. Chris Lee (D) from Hawaii standing in front of a camera and making an announcement about steps being taken to combat the “predatory behavior” of video game publishers, with particular emphasis given to Electronic Arts and its inclusion of loot boxes within Battlefront II.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, ITS FUCKING HAPPENING, FUCKING HAWAII, OUT OF ALL THE FUCKING PLACES IN THE WORLD, LOOT BOXES ARE GETTING FUCKING SHOAH'D

youtu.be/_akwfRuL4os

Fucking legend.

if your development team is a bunch of people doing a job, acting as gears in a machine none of them know completely, your game's going to be shit.

Lower your fucking budgets, and start up the B-game scene, "AAA" type shit is starting to fail even in Hollywood.

The obvious solution to those of us old enough to remember is this:

The shareware model.

Give the retard level and the first mission away for free. Charge money for each mission/level/campaign after the first. If multiplayer put blocks in to cap/limit gear based on current mission, etc.

The first AAA game of 2018 from a rogue publisher that re-adopts this model will dominate next year while the p2w + DLC fags die a slow death from the AIDS they have.

...

that's a whole lot of fucking no.

episodic games are ones i don't buy, release your damn game in full.

dev sympathy thread. there's no argument here. make a complete game and sell it. MT's are not necessary anyone who say's they are is a shill, they are worse than unnecessary they negatively impact game design on fundamental levels.

Okay, I'll just charge for my full game $100.

Okay, how about $30

Okay, how about $5

$1?

Free with IAP and Ads?

Which is why premium full priced complete games do so well on mobile. Oh, wait…..

Yeah except you're a faggot and wrong. Learn your history dipshit.

Moving away from shareware has led us directly to microtransactions and DLC. Which, you're obviously too young and dumb to understand DLC is just "episodic" content to games that are already marketed as full games. Which you are then retarded enough to not realize it wasn't a full game, and then pay more for another mission.

The Jew fears the Shareware.

60 bucks is the current max. Add on DLC, but if you deliberately cut out content then fuck you.

As a retort:

Seriously fuck you, you entitled bastard. No one has to give you money because you adopted some model you think is great and everyone else thinks is shit. NO ONE HAS TO GIVE YOU MONEY.

YOU cater to US. If you actively hate your own userbase and bitch at them when they call you out for jewing money, you will NEVER survive in this business or any other. Feel free to ignore this advice because I know you will because I want to see you on the fucking street or stuck working in a supermarket for the rest of your life.

so, your solution for getting rid of microtransactions and DLC is to charge micro payments for releasing small parts of an already complete game?

It worked for Apogee. It worked for iD. It worked for 3DRealms. etc. etc. etc.

The Jew fears the Shareware.

that in itself is microtransactions in functionality, and there's no guarantee that the micro-transactions relating to resources that are used at current will not be used. There is no end to the jewing in this case.

There's a reason why phone games are TECHNICALLY free, if you have to pay for every level, no one will pay.

the jews fear the shareware because they know they can't actually make money with it. Seriously, if it actually MADE MONEY, why wouldn't the jews use it? Are you fucking dumb?

Nigger, my point is that no matter what you price a game you'll be called a jew and people will cry. Ultimately developers should only ever listen to how much money they are making and not how much people are crying.

The strong developers continue to exist because they are resilient against hate and listen to the data. EA would never have cucked if it were not for Disney telling them to fuck off with the bad press, they would have rode on the hate and money into the sunset like they always do.

If you hate that then help the commies to overthrow capitalism.

Wrong. Jews already have all the money and only care about control. The shareware model does not help them control the market like forcing gambling addiction and running DLC scams on retards does.

If the Jew published a AAA game using the shareware model, nothing would stop people from NOT buying the paid episode if the retard and free levels were buggy piles of shit like today's full-priced games + DLC actually are.

The Jew fears the Shareware.

You're both wrong. Jews use the singular method which nets them the MOST money. Other methods can also make a profit, but less profit than what they currently use. And to them, anything less than maximum profit may as well be losing money.

And then we should adopt the grand tradition of shareware and lock every level behind a payment as per your orders, great fucking idea dipshit.

You're mistaking an important thing, you're confusing mainline vidya with the mobile game industry, when you fuck up in mainline vidya and DON'T listen to your customers, you lose players and money. Marketing can only save you so much, after a few fuckups people start waiting for others to get tricked and your week 1 profit margin drops.

Mobile games make money due to the addicted population spending ten thousand to a hundred thousand times the cash then an average granny misclicking and buying a 2 dollar microtransaction, with server costs being low it's a minor goldmine made on the backs of addicts.

Mainline vidya, though? PC and console? You don't listen you get fucked. Most people don't buy into your mainline games if they're full of micros. This shit is a DEATH KNELL to rising companies and a bad year to big guys.

You're advocating for a mobilpocalyse and frankly it won't even crash the industry like you seem to intend, it will only allow indies to grab a niche like the LAST TIME this happened, for fucks sakes, you never heard of "history repeats".

Do you know the definition of insanity?

They actually care less about losing money than they do losing control. See: Battlefront 2: The Empire Kikes Back.

They are perfectly willing to shoot themselves in their own foot (profit) right now; to maintain the control mechanism. Jew studios won't ever return to the shareware models of all the talent they absorbed 20 years ago because there extreme aversion to the risk of losing control.

If they Jew puts out a shit retard level and free mission, on a multi-million dollar budget, with no control it would be bad for them.

Ok, dipshit, tell me why going to a pay by level approach reduces control by any means?

Are you implying that by not making money, they lose control of an industry? Because that's exactly how it sounds with you. You've switched from MONEY to CONTROL when the first one didn't work out and your logic is fucking full of holes.

You are really, REALLY trying hard to roleplay as a faggot, to the point that I think you are one.

Again, why should this shareware approach be seen as anything other then microtransactions with a different target for transaction?

As someone who willingly plays and sinks a lot of time into Battlefield 1 as a prick scout/medic the lootboxes being only skins that can come with XP boosts is nice. What sucks is the puzzle pieces for melee weapons. I was lucky and got the Sawtooth built from earned drops and even I think it's bullshit how good those unique melee weapons are. An aside, anyone who uses the Federov non-stop should please consider using a different weapon, that gun is the hottest bullshit right now.

That isn't how the shareware model worked. Generally they gave you the retard level, and then a whole mission. Payment earned you the entire rest of the game. The microtrans-Jew and the DLC-Jew couldn't survive that model today for a couple reasons: many games are in the millions of dollar budget range, many games ship with critical bugs, DLC is completely optional.

Underage b& detected. That isn't how shareware works. It's interesting how the Jews have brainwashed kids into thinking shareware is the same as micro-Jews and DLC-Jews. It's really not.

I received the entire Doom after beating the first whole episode for free. Now go fuck youself.

The Jew fears the Shareware.

Replace youtube with hooktube like this: hooktube.com/watch?v=0qq6HcKj59Q
Somehow I doubt you simply forgot how to do that

Because the shareware model didn't work like that, and all these faggots arguing your point are retards or underage b& dipshits that were born after shareware.

...

Seriously do you little fuckers actually believe people my age paid for every single level in Doom? That's honestly how you think shareware worked in the late 80s to mid 90s? If that's really what you think it might be too late and the Jews have already one; we should just wait for our 666 stamps so we can have micro-transactions for our everyday lives.

Also

yar har fiddle dee dee, being a pirate is alright with me.

Fucking kill yourself holy shit

...

If you are the dev, maybe making it obvious and being honest?
Also
There, easy.

If you can't actually explain how it works, why are you so invested, to the point that your ONLY POSTS are about shilling shareware, with you trying desperately to fit in by saying jew over and over again, why the fuck are you here? Go to Neogaf they'll listen to you OH WAIT

Seriously, you're the epitome of a shill, constant agressive amounts of board jargon, trying to shut down and shame anyone who questions you, and never actually having a logical reason why your system should be implemented. Seriously, there's no difference between you and a communist, you argue exactly like them.

There's a reason shareware and communism didn't work. They weren't profitable and people were forced to use them to access things they wanted and needed, once the method that bypassed it became available, it could NO LONGER be used because people could bypass it and get what they wanted, which made it not viable.

Not that it was in the first place, the ONLY reason it was used back in the day was because you could essentially force people to stick with your payment plan, because file sharing wasn't really a thing. But now it certainly is.

Fuck off you jew.

Mobile is just a preview for what happens in desktop in console, my dude. As the race to the bottom continues, we're going to get less full priced premium games with no shenanigans – simply because there will be so many F2P options with varying cancer to choose from. We've seen this to a degree already with games like LoL, Dota2, Warframe, and so on taking lion's share of active gamers on PC, and games like Starcraft 2 attempting to take up this model as well. Expect Overwatch and Destiny 2 to eventually go F2P once they realize they'll make more going F2P with cancer.

Yeah, no. Look at top played games on Steam at any given time they are full of F2P cancer.

It's possible but it's really fucking hard and a huge risk for individuals. Most indie games never get finished, or if finished are financial failures. Dozens out of the hundreds of thousands are a true success. And, again, how can indies really compete with AAA F2P games with massive funding and huge amounts of content. They can't. Most of the "indie" games which sell well right now actually have big investors backing them. You're a fuckhead if you think Cuphead was indie.

The insane thing to do is to make video games. Any sane person developer has switched to B2B service software which is much easier to build reoccurring income from companies happy to pay.

Make a good game.
Don't get into game development if your finances are so tight that you have to worry about this shit.
Also don't get into game development if you want to get rich. You are better off investing or flipping real estate or something.

EA, we don't want to give you ideas just to impress your investors. Get your hands dirty, and make good games.

Since everyone else seems to shill this video, i might as well.

Then get off the board.

I'm also pretty sure that the majority of people want EA to fail and want to watch it burn. There's nothing complicated involved, no grand plan when making money off of video games.

Make it good, make it cheap, then sell it. Then make another one. That's it. Build up brand loyalty and never betray it.

You need to think long term, and all of these controversial practices will eventually end up tanking companies when they inevitably reach too far, because they will and they cannot resist the urge as a conglomerate. This will lead to an avalanche of laws crippling these profit avenues as they're finally noticed and regulated under the gambling bureaus.

Fucking hell. Anytime I see shit encouraging people to spend more money on shitty small character packs or lootboxes than a fucking fully priced game I literally cringe in horror. The fact that they think it's ok to charge people such insane amounts of money for such a small fraction of a game is just insane to me. Even worst are the people who buy it.
The one that really opened my eyes to this bullshit is Hearthstone. The fact that they want you
PREORDER
LOOTBOXES
for 50 DOLLARS was what made me drop the game and refuse to pick it up again.

The reason why this cancer exists is because enough people are unwilling to buy full priced games. It's why it happened on mobile, it's why it's happening on desktop. The more F2P cancer which exists, the faster it will accelerate, because the only way to survive is to adapt to what the market is actually willing to support.

I forgot to mention that even real life card games (which are also pretty much ripoffs themselves) at least have structure decks and shit where they have a confirmed list of cards you get. Here everything is a crapshoot!

A lot of japanese mobiles have microtransactions, but they tend to be generous on the in-game currency and focus on the whales without antagonizing their userbase. They'll put up a sale banner or two to let the fat lardasses and drug addicts know there's some new loot pack to clear out.
They make no bones about their role, there's no fanfare in mainstream media about it, because those console titles are actually successful. This? It's them grasping and clutching HARD because their main titles are failing and they know it.
They know AAA is overblown and expect it to crash, they know that they've overstepped their bounds and set a standard across the board that they cannot reach anymore.

You see shit like this and react in disgust, I see it and all I see is burning, burning fire.

And it's quite pretty.

I buy online
Structure decks are great since you can get a whole guaranteed pack for 10 bucks when the cards individually sell for more online.
never buy rando packs, the individual cards always end up cheaper then dirt once the next one comes in.

Why do so many people fall for this shit?

Worked for nintendo for a while. They almost never discounted their games until it reached a certain amount of sales. Their reasoning was that it would devalue the game because dropping the price once meant that the price could drop later.

This is why VNs sell, jpegs with text boxes.

At least MTG is great. It has mechanical depth, variety of decks, and budget options for different formats, playstyles, and leagues. For example, my trade binder had about $1200 across 50 cards or less, and I was finally able to break into Modern format, a series with no sets rotating out. My deck cost about $650 to build but I only spent $15 on it directly - the other cards I accumulated from trades, boosters, and playing well at FNM events, and finally trading specific cards I needed

Look at what could shake up Modern or Legacy either by being a power hitter or general use card. Not Goyf crazy but a few solid staples that'll be hard to come by. Buy a box at $120, resell at $200 or more in 4-5 years.

Good investment, its about 14% per year return, less taxes and shipping. Provided the game survives another 5 years

At what point does "just sell the fucking game" fail to cross your mind?

Games have always been treated as an advertisement to sell merchandise, toys, movies, etc. They have never designed the game itself as the end product, and thats a fairly novel idea as far as businesses go

Shareware was you got around the first 1/4 of the game for free and you bought the rest. That's it now stop pretending to be retarded you fucking kike.

I read a post by William Soleau saying that shareware simply did not work. I think it was him anyways. He said that you basically threw games at a wall, saw what stuck, sent it off on a dos or win demo comp disc and hoped a few people would pay you money. It was risky as fuck for a living apparently

Well obviously if your game sucked people wouldn't buy it. Same reason companies don't make demos anymore.

Art for a living in general is a risky business

back in my day they used to be called treasure chests and you'd get all of them with the game you bought

You actually make a fair point. Advertising is less and less effective. A general rule of thumb is if you spend $100 on advertising a product, you'll get 50 back in sales, IF that.

It's mainly used today to redirect people to platforms where advertising is free/cheap, like a site or a youtube channel.

Devs could save a fuck ton of money if they used less on advertising, especially TV and Youtube ads. As anyone with half a brain uses some form of adblock and does not watch TV unless they're boomers. (CNN average age 59, BBC 60, Fox 68 etc)
Make a good game and gain consumer good will and people will advertise your game more effectivly than any ad, and do it for free because they like your game and want other people to play it.

As a last adition, i'd like to mention the cost of new games, if you make a game that looks like it's from a previous gen, not only does it let you do way more with the game due to decreased performance requirements, you'd be able to do it quicker and cheaper as well. Keep in mind I don't know if this is an objective fact, I can only speak from my experience in military technology where this is true.

Make a game.
Create worthwhile expansions and charge for those as well.
Create standalone content for the game, increasing the audience of the game who will in turn go back and buy previous titles (creating a long tail, which Nintendo are the masters of. Seriously, look at how long their games continue to sell and without dropping in price).
Add new content over time, such as boss rush modes and survival modes and whatnot, and promote the content in time with a sale that further increases sales and exposure.
Build an audience through not being fucktards.
Release "epilogue" content that segues in to the sequel (without relying on cliffhangers like a fuckwit, actually finish the main story in each game you make) and promote it to get people hyped for your next game.
Repeat.

if you only knew how bad things are **about to get*

But it was already invented, it's called full games and full expansions