DMC vs Bayonetta vs MGR

For over-the-top set pieces:Bayo
For gameplay:Dante
For Muh Story: Jack

Said by someone who has obviously played neither… Or played them and sucked ass at them.
I've beaten all three on the hardest settings and while DMC might be the best, you definitely still cannot say Bayonetta or MGR are bad games from a technical standpoint, as they're leagues ahead of most modern games in terms of their combat system depth.

Remember that Kamiya invented the DMC series, and he worked on MGR and Bayonetta.

Never played any of the DMC game yet but I can say with certainty that MGR was not fun to replay after having not played it for a long time, and that is something I can't say about either of the bayonetta games as both were great when I picked them back up on the hardest difficulty available on a new game

Fighting games provide more stylish maneuvers and flexibility than most stylish games. And it feels even better because you read your opponent and styled on them while under pressure.

Why not play more fighters? There are plenty of stylish fighters like UNIEST, Arcana Heart 3, Chaos Code, Guilty Gear AC+R, or Virtua Fighter 5 for example.

He did not.

Never played MGR but it looks rather simple. DMC vs Bayonetta are too different to compare.
Reminder that Kamiya explicitly said Bayo is stronger than Dante but all the fucking plebians think Dante is stronger because of a terrible death battle video.

Because you need a good internet
Or friends

I don't like fighting games because you need someone else to play with for it to be fun, and usually I'm way too good for my friends to have fun playing against, even if I have basically never practiced in the fighting game in question, just playing games like DMC by myself puts me way too far ahead of them that they can't compete.

Also I will never deal with online play in a fighting game, cuz of latency. Lag in a shooting game is something I can tolerate, but in a fighting game it would seriously make me rage so much I'm not even going near it.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought MGR was built on top of a work of concept engine that he did for Bayonetta originally? In any case, it IS a Platinum Games creation which was made up of the Little Devils/Little Angels devs.

Because no PC release.

I agree with on most accounts.
Have a fighting game with good AI and you'd be onto something. It's what Anarchy Reigns tried to do and really, really didn't.
IMO, with the level of studying people could do to be perfect and stylish games- they could do OK in FGC. But, FGC has other factors (mind-games, even hearing the player hit buttons can tip you off early).

stop

I've played all three and came to the same conclusion. Bayo and MGR both gave me AWFUL FUCKING AWFUL camera problems to the point of sucking any fun out of the games. MGR was way too easy and cheesy and Bayo, while interesting, gave me the most amount of technical problems on my rig for an almost decade old game.

The camera has issues in all three games, but they're mitigated far better than any other game out there that tries to have the same type of combat. MGR is easy because there's a couple highly abusable things, ie infinite energy wig + jetstream sam's sword + blade mode. But if you don't use that shit the game is comparable to the others. The only crappy thing about MGR is it's too short + unpolished due to being pushed out too early.

Every fightan I've ever played had awful sticky controls compared to the three games OP mentioned.

who would be on top, bayo or dante?

They would likely be spinning though the air mid-coitus or some shit

He was involved with 1 and 2, which aged poorly but is known as the grandaddy of the genre and is absolute dogshit respectively. He had zero involvement with 3 or 4, which are considered the peak.

Bayonetta is shit because
1) it cannot maintain a consistent framerate on any platform it's been released on, which is laughable for a skill-based game
2) It has *randomized* QTEs all over the place that count towards your score
3) It's dramatically more locked down than DMC, with all combos being on pre-set tracks instead of allowing you to make your own on the fly like in DMC. Bayonetta 2 takes this even further by "fixing" exploits from the first game that let extremely skilled players somewhat skirt this limitation.
4) Bayonetta focuses too much on fancy setpieces, and shoving QTEs into those setpieces. If you have a cool idea for a fight, *let the player fucking do it, don't make it a cutscene with simon says prompts to play pretend*.
5) Rather than relying on tight hitboxes and smooth player movement, Bayonetta simply uses a get out of jail free dedicated dodge button with a massive amount of iframes

MGR has similar problems but not to nearly the extent of Bayonetta. By no means are they bad games I actually like MGR a lot but they don't even hold a candle to DMC.

Wasn't the PC port's performance really smooth?

works on my machine.

DMC3 > MGR > DMC4 > Bayo 1 > DMC1 > Bayo 2 > DMC2 > Ninja Gayden
Fact.

I love you too, Matt

the pc port runs worse than emulating it via CEMU

I mostly agree with what you said but I should point out that dial-up combos in Bayonetta aren't explicitly a bad aspect of the game. It's just a different way to do combos and it comes down to subjective taste on that respect. The fact is that dial-up combos work with, not against the combat flow of Bayonetta. While I do prefer the free-form combo style of DMC, they went with a different direction and it's fine because of how different the arenas and enemy AI of Bayonetta works compared to DMC.

Also, DMC1 is still objectively the best in the series

Horse shit
The only problem I have experienced with the PC version is that it is the QTE issue and a crash that occurs when I quickly continue the game then pause the game and go back to title and then continue and then pause and return to title, and only if I do it like 20 times in a row

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He was nowhere near involved with 2.

for me, any time you start climbing on walls, the game becomes unplayable, with Bayo and all enemies going off-screen while the camera focuses somewhere else. trying CEMU seems like a good suggestion. if it works fine, moving on to the sequel will be easy, too.

sage for double post, but you are a double nigger if you think NG1 is worse than DMC2

Underrated post.

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Fighting games are very responsive with the exception of games with stiff movement. Like Netherrealm Studios games.

Even BRs can play fighters easily on fightcade. I've played a few myself with no problems.

If you were to put the amount of time into a fighter as you did a stylish game's campaign then you would be above average assuming you learm from mistakes. Playing fighters casually is just playing to improve and finding some opponents to learn from. Getting your ass kicked will start feeling like learning experiences and easy victories will bore you.

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None of them, God Hand is king

God damn I want people who have never even seen the developer commentary to leave.

For combat mechanics, I'd say DMC. In this regard Bayonetta is more accessible and aesthetic, but DMC combat gets better as you're better at the game. Bayonetta largely has dial-a-combo and sequencing said dial-a-combos- you can notice how the game starts diminishing the points from attacks if you don't finish with a Wicked Weave eventually. DMC's "combo's" are technically actions meant to be put together by the player with their own utility, and the games don't have QTE's so I believe it stronger represents player agency. For DMC's closest analogue to a QTE, the Devil Bringer mainly optional and for its sequence you have to assess the risk reward of using it (where as Bayonetta's Torture Attacks or QTE's are isolated sequences).

Bayonetta does something unique with Accessories and weapon equips, this at least deserves a mention. MGR and most Platinum games tend to derive themselves from Bayonetta, but the slicing concept is unique.

I'll say this, when I saw that webm of Dante vs Lady, where the player was deflecting Lady's shots by attacking, my jaw dropped. I had no idea that was even possible.

Itsuno is so severely overlooked as a game designer, it's not even funny.

I love all of those games but it's Devil may cry, not even a fucking contest.

MGR Has a great bosses and Blade mode is cool as fuck, but it lacks content.
Bayonetta all the weapons are fundamentally the same in how you use them. Punch and kick, wicked weave hold down for special effect. Also Bayo1 has reskins as characters, and Bayo 2 locks the actual unique characters behind the multiplayer.

DMC3 SE has Two completely different playable characters
DMC3 Dante has 5 devil arms 5 guns and, 6 different styles that can all change the way you approach a fight.
DMC4 SE has 5 completely different playable characters.

Platinum is great at pushing you to want to get a better arcade score and having cool set pieces, but DMC demolishes Platinum in terms of the shear variety in your skill set.

I would say God hand rivals DMC in terms of Variety though there isn't much arial combat.
Ninja Gaiden is also great, but it's focus in more on different ways of killing enemies quickly, more so then Styling on them.

nigger DMC was made by platinum

Even if that was exactly true, Then they've been getting worse after DMC4.

are you well, user?

DMC

Bayonetta/MGR has too many QTEs to be stylish

No.
There is a decent chance Itsuno is working on DMC5 right now, and I don't know what the fuck to think anymore since it's been 9 years since DMC4 original cameout.
I can't comprehend what a proper DMC5 would even be now a days.

Bayonetta 1 and 2 are very fun and impressive for a playthrough, but I never had the drive to complete higher modes and never went back to either of them. I still replay DMC4 from time to time.
MGR is too different to compare to be honest. If it didn't have the music and sundowner armstrong if you're a my first politics pleb it wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is on Holla Forums.

I love bayonetta, but DMC mostly edges bayo 1 and 2 out in pure combat cuhrayzee. I still prefer a lot of stuff about bayonetta in terms of levels, some bosses, side characters. (Enzo is fucking great for his ability to hang out with powerful demon wranglers whilst also having a good family life)

BUT IN MY HEART I FUCKING LOVE WONDERFUL 101 THE MOST.

Yeah Enzo sure does love his family.

Kamiya didnt worked on MGR retard, there's more than 1 director at Platinum.

Platinum have their own Engine they use to make games, doesn't mean Kamiya worked on every games in Platinum. Bayo, Vanquish, MGR, Nier all use the same engine

Fucking saving that forever on the off chance someone mentions enzo ever again

In the end it really just depends on what you prefer.
Bara, Ara, or Traps.

DMC3 is still the king of the genre with Ninja Gaiden Black at a very very close second. Bayo comes in at third. MGR is a fun little game but it's short and never struck me as having the same depth that Bayo, NG and DMC all strive for.

God Hand's a classic. Definitely a mandatory play through.

Unironically Dragon's Dogma.

…. Imma pretend that's a rule 63 Raiden. It's straight now. If I fap to it it'll totally be no homo… straight.

Devil May Cry is without doubt the better game, because of the variety AND separation among weapons and enemies. Because it's worthless when you have large numbers of them, but they are fundamentally just melee dudes to dodge or parry.

There is also something increasingly grating with Bayonetta, too whorish and arrogant to be likeable. You just don't wish to come back to her character, while the other dudes always have something fun to do. It's part of the reason why it is useless to hang around bitches, if you won't bed them. A bayonetta player is the ultimate beta in this regard, and the game even provides slimy Enzo as placeholders for gamers.

But it's Revengeance to pull off the best trick among the 3. While devil trigger is just a buff and witch time defeats the entire purpose of the game (dodging rewards you with getting thrown out of the brawl you are supposed to enjoy), instead zangeki blade time is literally the perfect, always fun gameplay element that never gets old. Too bad that refilling your entire life with a single zandatsu is a game breaking mechanic.

Last time I played Bayonetta 2 I marathon'd the whole thing over a weekend and had the most unbelievable amount of fun. I can't really judge on the technical mechanics of each game but all I know is that Bayo makes me smile, every encounter is either joyous or spectacular or both. Plus I have a thing for women with glasses

I'm afraid the odd man is you, user. But it had to happen, everyone grows up eventually

Get a PC, not a toaster.
Untrue. Every QTE is the same input, same place, same time.

The rest of your points are valid if overblown.

Bayonetta 2 is only released on the Wii U

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You all have shit taste. Superior action game coming through.

So?

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Haven't played MGR but Bayonetta was a fucking bore that I couldn't finish. No exploration, combat feels random as fuck, lots of combos but no need to learn 75% of them, lots of cutscenes, pacing is awful and so on. So it's DMC for me (at least until 4, never played the donte reboot)

Ninja Gaiden for XBOX is the best one of the genre though

DMC hands down.
DMC, when you see some sick stylish shit in DMC like in those combo MADs you know that was from a lot of practice and effort to learn to not only function but look sick doing it which adds to how cool it is.
In Bayo there's not too much on that sort of level. You start on the floor then climbing up the stairs is learning the dodge offsets and there you're pretty much at the top of what bayo's combat gives past 1 or 2 tricks that the game itself will lower your score for using due to how it's system works (very chains or moves not ending in a wicked weave lowers your score by 10% and this can stack till you get only 1 point for everything)
MGR:R is a cool game but stylishness comes from people sort of playing with the boss fights doing optimal stuff to make it look like a cool cinematic fight. Stuff in the game is cool and look look doing it but the input you're doing for it makes it feel less stylish due to it being a lot less.
Please don't see it like I'm bad mouthing the other 2 but daddy DMC got it spot on while the other 2 sort of 2 thirds way to what they need to drop off there.

Its still locked to subpar framerates and doesn't actually work perfectly on the emulator

The game drops to 40 anytime there is action on the screen.

Like what? Bayonetta? MGR?
All platinum games drop framerate whenever in action.

Bayo 2 is actually stale bread compared to 1 better off skipping it, like they saw how much people like that time stop dodge so they design fucking everything to need it later on some offsets are missing from the first game and to make people feel good with the fake devil trigger magic punishments for getting hit are removed.

Bayonetta knows what kind of game she is in and doesn't waste time with pointless shit that isn't ass kicking.
DMC has an identity crisis and has far too much uneventful exploration which is totally at odds with the action parts.

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DmC is better

Well fuck not the vid I wanted to embed but whatever, good idea of how it runs on the actual thing anyways

So how do they plan on bringing DMC back to life?

Why would they plan for something they're not gonna do.

Its actually worse than I thought. Glad I dodged that Wii U bullet.

You can argue between Bayo and DMC but MGR isn't even in the same league. It's like some cheap knockoff of the genre. It's not that bad a game but it doesn't even compete.

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DMC3 and 4 are hands down the better games.
While Bayo 1 and 2 focus on spectacle, in both the presentation and combat, they sacrifice the rewarding feeling Dante's (and Nero's) combat gives.

See, it's like this, in Bayo basically everything is a combo. You're downright encouraged to go hog wild on the button mashing, especially given how you aren't penalized for doing so. Bayo is also much more fluid in her combat, with stuff like being able to dodge in any direction at any time, and just having a metric fuckton more moves.

Dante and Nero, by comparison, are shockingly rigid in mechanics, if you've played any of Platinum's games beforehand. They're slow, they don't have nimble dodges (even Trickster isn't on par with Bayo's dodges), and they have way less moves. But here's the kicker, Bayo's limitless combos also means her moves become increasingly devalued the more you look into them.
By contrast, every single one of Dante's (and Nero's) moves are highly valuable, and outright demand you play smart and think about what you're going to do. Which becomes emphasized with the way they both handle combos, one having looking cool through creativity be the main mechanic, the other being just getting as many hits in as you can.

As a result, this increased demand from the player means that while the learning curve is much higher, the skill ceiling is also fucking insane. And it doesn't even stop there, Dante and Nero already have leagues better combat than Bayo, Nero lacking the multiple styles of Dante, but making up for it by having the most in depth individual "style" to his combat (the ACT system, compared to something like Royal Guard individually, without the other ones). But then you get to 4, and suddenly Dante has access to all 4 (5) of his major styles from 3, and can be hotswitched at literally any point in time, and the skill ceiling becomes something even a TAS would struggle to reach.

Contrast that to Bayo, which doesn't really have any incentives to get better than being able to mash, and never get hit. It's just not even a contest.
That being said, I think there's a place for games like Bayo and MGR. They aren't to the level of DMC, but they don't have to be. I'd like it if they were, but they're also keeping interest in action games alive at all.

If you conveniently ignore that one central point of the combo system is long presses vs short presses and that mashing will destroy your combo points and fail to be effective most of the time.
On the other hand you're really encouraged to just master 3 or so moves that work well and never do anything else.

I forgot about that shit, which just illustrates my point further.
Despite playing Bayo for more time than I have DMC games, I can still instinctively remember the timing to shit like Cerberus' CRAZY combo, or Nero's EX-Acts.

There just simply isn't the same level of depth to Bayo, as there is DMC.
TW101 is probably closer, just because of the sheer level of viable options you have at any given point in time.

Bayo.

That's gay as shit son.

Here

nice b8

it was originally supposed to be a RE spin-off that took off on its own wings. that "uneventful exploration" of gothic structures was supposed to be part of the experience. they even improved that in 4 with the running boost ability.

nigger, I play the games. this isn't some fucking DVD I'm trying to watch. shouldn't even be responding to this terrible bait, 2/10

I'm shocked that there has only been one mention of Nier: Automata in this thread so far.

Dragon's Dogma is not cuhrayzee.

Also I'd like to note the second OP pic depicts 1's Bayonetta as leagues more attractive than she is normally.

DMC obviously the best.

MGR is alright but nothing special. Whole game is just about the parry and riposte move so once you've figured that out there's not much to do.

Bayonetta was just really offputting to me. Don't like her character and there's no-one else to care about. Couldn't even finish the game.

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Curayzeee parenting action game featuring Sparda from the DMC series.

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What do you mean by dial up and free flow? In DMC you have both dial up combos and free flow and you mix the 2 together. Go play the Trish singleplayer to really understand what I mean by this in DMC4.

The golden triangle is DMC, Bayonetta & Ninja Gaiden.

Bayonetta's the most fun to play and easiest to pick up. She has so many tools in her disposal, especially when it comes to movement (animal forms for running, raven for shooting towards enemy from across the arena). It suffers in how the weapons don't change the combos very much, just with different timing and combo modifiers (hold button down at end of combo will make hand guns rapid fire shoot, but will make shotguns give one huge blast).

DMC is much harder to pick up and play, but there's a greater variety of attacks between the weapons.

Ninja Gaiden is more about "kill them before they kill you". Enemies are generally weak, but you have to move around in such a flashy fashion to survive that it looks real cool. Many of the ultimate techniques kill the enemy midway through the technique and you're just juggling a dead body, but you need to do that to exploit the invincibility frames just to survive.

DMC3 and 4 are still the best of the genre I think. The way the style system encourages you to use a variety of moves, the total lack of QTEs (and the conceptually similar but much better Devil Bringer), the relatively small but more useful/practical movesets the player has, stable framerate and tight hitbox design, they get a lot of things right that other stylish action or whatever you want to call them games don't. I also really enjoy the Bloody Palace (especially 3's) and can't think of another game in the genre with a side mode that I've enjoyed as much as that. Bayo 2's Lost Chapters were really good, though.

MGR was good, but it didn't have as much content as I would like in terms of length, number of bosses, etc. The weapon switching system was also pretty cumbersome compared to a lot of other games in the genre and in that regard it felt like they were trying to be too loyal to the 'Metal Gear' label on the box. Blade mode was cool though and I liked the fact that severing the limbs of certain enemies affected the way they fought.

I really like both Bayonetta games as well, but dodges are more lenient than I'd prefer and the first game in particular has far, far too many QTEs for my liking. I also didn't like Bayo 1's bosses very much, they're too setpiece-heavy and you spend decent chunk of time watching each fight rather than playing because of that. Bayo 2's bosses are better in that regard, but the new humanoid bosses and some new enemies (especially Sloth) dodge your attacks far too frequently, to the point where you're essentially forced to play reactively with Witch Time sometimes. The first Bayo's framerate is also awful, but I imagine the PC version alleviates that.

Most other things to do with MGR and Bayo have already been mentioned by other anons in this thread, so I'll say The Wonderful 101 also deserves a mention. It's got some questionable design in places, but it's a great game overall, with really unique enemy design and combat.

Bayonetta

DMC

MGR

The PC ports of Bayonetta and MGR don't and neither does the port of DMC4.

I hope you of jokes user

Feels fucking bad. I think I could dust off the Xbone and get it digitally pretty cheap, hopefully. Also pic related is a similar title lost without emulation I'll never get over.

Dmc: Gameplay, just don't mention youwho
Bayo: Controversy, Euros voted for her on Smash, but they find her "yucky too sexualized"

Best Elvis Presley remix ever.
GODDO HANDO

Platinum had nothing to do with DMC4(thankfully)