Killing God in JRPGs

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Anyone have that Doom mod where you kill christian jesus?

are you mentally retarded?

Halfchan template threads are good, redart!

Grezzo

You find that unique? It's a been a staple of JRPGs since the 80s. It's so cliche that I roll my eyes whenever I see a game with that overused plot device. It doesn't make any sense either from a western context. The thrill wears off since you're just tanking characters to beat one.

Anyway; Xenogears, Breath of Fire 2, Breath of Fire 3. and SMT1/SMT2/SMT3 come to mind.

every jrpg is the same

Then how about you going back there, torfag?

I would have to agree, especially modern ones. Just look at most games for the Vita or stuff hy Falcom.

Yeah, iirc a more accurate translation of 'Kami' would be 'spirit'.

Dragon's Dogma

This is the worst part about localizations.
Reason Japan stuff is interesting is because of cultural differences, but the majority of stuff will be gone because it can offend someone.
Because there will always be people pretending to be offended by anything to act victim. Kill me please.

Being offended is cool

Yes I am aware of this.
After all most people migrated to this site after journos and other people got offended at a non-existent harassment.

The idea of killing a god is so beyond overused that it bores me whenever it comes up. It doesn't help that all you do beat it up like any other enemy, possibly with applying Plot Device to it at the end. The only reason you have to think that it's a god is that you're told it is. This is incidentally why people like Kirbyfags are unbearable, with their "he killed a god he's super strong" shit. Yes, he's killed gods, so have probably half of gaming protagonists.

Shit's just as tired as the main character having a speech about how having friends is the most powerful thing ever and how you need to be accepting of other people and cultures. I can't possibly guess where THAT could come from. Nothing like beating generations of kids over the head with "diversity is great" over and over.

Didn't realise he could delete it probably.

Okay, I legit laughed

Jesus Toddler Fucking Christ

I want a game where you kill God's dad and rape his massive whore of a mother.

I am sure there is a porn game like that, probably made in RPGmaker.

Lel imagine being butthurt over a pink puffball

Ten trillion times this.

An Eastern god would just be called a daemon in Western tradition. A spirit. The Western, Christian conception of an origin-point creator deity to which the universe is predicated upon the existence of is a completely different thing. Killing gods in Eastern tradition is basically only as special as what you see in videogames. It's a tough fight against an enemy with some unique abilities. Killing the Western God may either require or result in the cessation of reality.

Common story, but not actually true. A kami is no mere spirit. A kami is a superhuman entity worshiped by humans that can grant blessings or curses to humans.

Here's the definition from a Japanese site:
人間を超えた存在で、人間に対し禍福や賞罰を与え、信仰・崇拝の対象となるもの

obligatory

Wouldn't all five Breath of Fire games technically count?
There's also the Lufia series. The Sinistrals were much more active than the typical "Gods" in games like these, which I thought was pretty cool.

Ok, so we know that the Japanese version of god is basically just a really powerful supernatural entity - not like how gods are perceived in the west. So killing them is generally without consequence aside from the removal of their interference.

Are there any games, then that have you kill a Pantheistic god - making the destruction of such a being a literal fight against and destruction of reality itself, or a game in which reality emanates from and is sustained by the godhead, and killing it results in a broken hollow universe that is just circling the drain of atrophy and decay?

What if killing God was a fuck-up, no matter how necessary it may have seemed to be at the time, and a sequel to the game paints the original heroes as villains as the new protagonists have to search for some means of finding a substitute or synthetic godhead just to keep things from falling apart even further?

Monster Girl Quest.

SMT VI Apocalypse has an ending where you can kill Jehovah. SMT III True Demon Ending has you lead Lucifer's army against Jehovah but you don't get to see the fight and there is no clear winner implied.

XenoGears is probably the best god-killing game out there.

No, it would be called a god, which doesn't specifically mean the Abrahamic god. Think of the Greek and Roman gods.

Creator did nothing wrong.
Any games where the final fight lets you take your revenge against the developer?

Nope, nips never think past that. I'd like to see it though. Xenoblade 1 kinda fits? It starts after two gods punch each other to death.

You're not even killing god in Xenogears though… you're just defeating an advanced weapon system named which blew a hole in the fabric of reality and trapped some higher dimensional being inside of it's core. You're not even killing that extra-dimensional being at the end - you're just setting it free.

Yeah, but are YHWH and Lucifer treated as they are in western cultures, or are they just more "powerful beings" of ultimately no consequence to the universe?

The closest I've seen that I remember is probably TESIII, but even in that - god isn't dead, and there's no means by which to kill it. It's just sleeping - and everything is just an expression of that dream. At best, the Dwarves tried to build their own mechanical god in order to wreck the dream and wake god up - which, since everything is just a limited sub-gradient of god - would destroy reality and free everyone from their mortal prisons in order to become one with god again.

Basically the entire point of TES is trying to not only keep god in a celestial coma, but to prevent the dream cycle from starting over again (like kaplas being like the cycles of REM/non-REM sleep) so that you can keep living.

Basically every jrpg ever. You have plenty of options.

Relating to the topic at hand, it's rarely ever translated or explained properly, but Japan's whole theistic tradition revolves around the animistic idea that everything has a spirit, and certain areas, mountains, rivers, and so on, have "Gods" attached to them, which are more like Greater or Top Tier spirits, and not necessarily world-controlling Biblical Deities. This belief in assorted lesser Gods also corresponds to a belief that some spirits are evil and destructive and must be banished. Evil Gods that have to be killed are a normal concept, as far as they believe.

The closest you would get to gods similar to the Roman and Greek one's would be Izanagi, Izanami and they're children. None of the Kami of this level are ever interacted with religion personally, thought it's completely possible to have shrines and festivals devoted to them. Minor fortune gods such as Ebisu would be closer to extremely minor deities in Greek lore. (Such as Hypno the god of sleep) but those gods are not the same as those in the pantheon and are nowhere near the level of what most people think of when they hear "Greek Gods". The majority of Kami from folklore or even local worship would be much closer to wait user was referring to daemons. As deities that can theoretically be killed but it's incredibly difficult. Kami means so many things ranging from beings who created the universe down to local mountains that it's hard to capture the entire definition in English. The best way to think of it as that Kami refers to both "gods, spirits, angels, demons" all at once. However, most folklore involving deities is almost exclusive to local minor one's.

Shin Megami Tensei uses the concept of a multiverse in order to allow all their stories to coexist. In exactly one universe, say the SMT IV one, YHVH is the all powerful deity of that universe and Lucifer is another incredibly powerful deity with control over demons as well. In the SMT IV they did successful kill what Westerners consider to be Jehovah and all his traits. However, it should be noted that even Jehavoh is considered only a part of "The Great Will" which created the over all multiverse. Since Hebrew and Christian tradition don't consider there to be multiverse, yes, they were as strong and all powerful as their western counterparts. But if you're asking were they really the end all be all of the multiverse, no. As for the consequences, if you rebel against Jehovah in SMT II and succeed. Jehovah guarantees he will be back and "humanity will greatly suffer for it". In addition, MC is punished due to committing "Diecide" to constantly be reborn and tortured for eternity once Jehovah is recreated.

What about killing Train God inside of the sun?

Hotline Miami?

If I remember correctly in soul sacrifice delta you kill at least 1 out of 2 gods and there is consequences for doing so. I could just be bullshitting though it's been awhile

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Persona does

Brahman would be considered similar to Jehovah is Hindu tradition as an all powerful creator diety and "the entire reality". If you kill him you did just kill the entirity of reality and cause a reset to happen. Again, because Brahman is considered a sub avatar of The Great Will.

Excuse me? Bitch I am jesus.

that's because YHVH ≠ YHWH

I love the coloring in that.

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Man, his faces used to be so bad.

Typical christfag

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Is there a game where you can become God?

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Does this demon count?
Also you technically play as a messiah in the games according to smt4a.

You can become a demigod in Skyrim with with the Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCs.
From the former you get the powers of a vampire lord, and the latter you unlock the secrets of Hermaeus Mora's Black Books, granting you power and vast intelligence.
Coupled with this and all the artifacts and other blessing you find, among being a Dragonborn yourself - truly, you too can become a god.
I'd suggest picking up an HTC Vive if you don't already have one, and get Skyrim VR for the most immersive experience as roleplaying a god.

Let's get into the meat of matters here:

Primitive civilizations are marked by things like animism. The idea of a "higher power" is evident, but not as a singular entity. There are spirits attached to all things, of various degrees of power. A very old and giant tree has a more powerful spirit attached to it than a meadow or a rock does.

As civilizations progress, they begin to glorify individuals which they give a sort of physical form. Animal deities are one form, but as the civilizations develop, the gods become more and more akin to humans. These gods are far greater in power and direct in influence than primitive spirits, but are still not all-powerful. Each is tied to aspects in some form, and has its own human-like flaws and limitations. They are above mankind, but not truly untouchable, either. Consider that, in the context of the Iliad, Diomedes (with the support of Athena) is able to pierce the god of war Ares on the battlefield, and send him back to Olympus crying like a little bitch.

This same progression was followed in both East and West. However, while Westerners for the most part focused their attention and artwork on the developing "man-like" gods, the Easterners still remained much closer to the pseudo-animist roots. Lesser spirits were just as big, if not bigger, of a deal than the big-name gods. Folk heroes, for that reason, are a big deal in places like Japan. Of course, there's still a lot of divine activity going on - from Japan, for instance, you have things like Izanagi/Izanami, Susano-O, Amaterasu, and so forth. Prior to Confucius turning them all into ant people until the end of time, the Chinese also had their major deities in play. Globally, there was a strong (but not perfect) link in play.

Now, there was an exception in the West: Christianity. While not the first monotheistic religion, the Judaism which preceded it was the first to truly encompass everything as under the purview of a singular "God" (consider the duality of Zoroastrian cosmology). Christianity, to a degree, doubles down on this further: while the Old Testament identifies other gods and spirits as empowering enemy thoughts, Christianity truly enforces the idea that these are not divine in the least, but demonic.

Indeed, the word "Demon" traces its origin back to referring to local spirits and entities, not the modern conception of giant balrogs and fuckable succubi. Essentially, anything which is "a powerful spirit/entity, but not God" is a demon. And for these creatures to declare themselves as gods, thus opposing God, who is good, they must clearly be of ill-intent.

There's also Buddhism in the East, which is also something that kind of goes a little outside the norm. There's a reason it and Christianity get compared quite a bit.

But to the point: Yes, the idea of "Kami" is what would be considering under Christian tradition as "demons". No, it does not equate to "demon" as we use the phrase in the modern sense - instead, it's closer to both what we could called "gods" in mythology context, as well as lesser sorts of spirits. The range is quite great - some are very powerful, some are very limited.

There are many JRPG where there is only a single God that you kill.

Tell me more.

Well, it's no jap game but I liked how Path of Exile handled the concept of gods and reality.
>game starts about revenge against the top templar and ruler who exiled you from home for sinning
>by act 3 it turns out he's been tapping into some sort of demonic power that turns thoughts into reality
>he turns into a demon and you have to beat him
>act 4, people in a settlement on the way back home bitch and moan about some reality-warping "Beast", the "Nightmare", resting deep below the earth. it's the source of said magic
>the top sorcerer from a past civilization plans to use the Beast to bring annuda shoah to the current civilization
>you kill both the Nightmare and the sorcerer because you feel brave enough after killing a demon
>get back home, dindu slaves are rebelling and you help them fuck up the rulers because why not
>you try to kill the new top templar
>the God of Innocence surges from his body and you slay him too
>his death triggers the surge of the dindu God of Hunger, Kitava
>shit's on fire yo, dindus are killing everyone to feed their god
>the God of Sin shows up, turns out he made the Nightmare to supress the gods into ideas and free mankind
>after a failed attempt against Kitava you and Sin explore and kill other gods to amass enough power to extract the power off the Beast's corpse
>Innocence is reborn and together you kill Kitava
>the world is now filled with gods and magic galore, good fucking job hero

That depends if we mean all powerful God or just a powerful one. Though the idea of an all powerful god itself is just stupid. All powerful wouldn't even work on a conceptual level because some things (like changing math properties for example or logical sequences) are literally impossible to change. I know a lot of Christfags are too insecure to admit that though since their god has to be the strongest and most powerful god there is!

Not for God. Seriously, how young are you? This is philosophy 101

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Are Christians the powerlevel autists of organized religions?

Yeah no.
Take a basic math or logic class user. These are things outside of thought and the physical realm. You literally could not change them even if you had the power to create dimensions at whim.

Brainlet.

yes but their is a difference between the theological/metaphysical/philosophical God of all gods (with a Capital G) and the generic lowercase term "god". Demigods are often mistaken for God and the generic god's that you kill in JRPG's are often Lesser beings or Demons. For example Kefka is a Demonic Force with demigod status but killing Kefka is not killing the creator of the Universe and metaphysical Logos of all Natural Order.

there*

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If you can kill them, they aren't a god

Well, they could be norse gods, but otherwise not gods

Christians are the biggest nerds of all time.
They are obsessed with a really old book of stories meant to teach morals so much so they believe them to be true and live their lives around them. Anyone remember that cringy shit with people who were so passionate about digimon that they chose to believe they must exists on the internet?
They form specific groups based on what parts they think are the most important, and often times will go beyond mere hatred or disdain of someone who has a different canon but will legit murder them in ways that are symbolically approach to their canon. Like the drowning of Baptist by Protestants over if a person should be fully immersed in water or just have it sprinkled on them
They even write fanfics which get so well received that people will consider them to be of the same worthiness as the original stuff like the book of Mormon.

It's not about conception. Math is literally a non physical concept that is self provable and works in literally every situation no matter the physical properties of the universe you live in. Math could literally be used outside of time and space.
You going "B-But he totally could because he can do anything!" stupid.

apparently it doesn't take too much to *enlighten* you, huh?

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What an amazing basically non comment.

Wow you sure sound smart.

Is this that "god works in mysterious ways" bullshit people say when they know they don't have a single logical point or thing to say?

God works in mysterious ways is primary used to sidestep questions about the morality of god for people who think god is only good. For example, why does god allow their to be an AIDs epidemic on Africa? If god loves everyone why does he allow them to suffer?
Why did god take [insert loved one]? He works in mysterious ways.

Why do some babies that were just born suffocate shortly after? Unlimited God Works!

Logic and math can be changed by the person who created logic and math in the first place. Not a hard concept to grasp. Have you ever considered that maybe we are all being deceived like in the Matrix and 2+2 actually equals 5?

Reality lives outside of math and anything else. If one reality says 2-2=5 it be so, that wouldn't be the reality for you but it would be the reality of someone else, you're talking about the law of Nature which is infinite. Durendal.

It's nature that kills and people that create Wars. A god is too easy to point at.

Thanks for confirming you are retarded and you don't have the comprehension to literally understand a single point about how math doesn't work like that.

Math isn't a physical law. A different reality would be different by physical laws but math is outside of that. 2+2= 4 literally everywhere even if they don't use the same symbols.

No it can't. Prove it can.

That's not true.

That's also false.

Yes it is. Explain how it's not. Different physical laws don't change how math works. Have you ever taken a math class? Are you literally underage?
No it's not. Jesus christ user.

Dude, if God is as perfect as he is said to be in the Judeo-Christian belief, and if he created the Universe, that means he also created the rules to which the universe follows. Therefor, he can change the rules if he wishes.

My reality could be exactly the same only that 2-2=5. Just because you want it to be 4 doesn't make it so.

That's not how it works.

To be 0*

Can you even begin to explain how a different reality would not allow conceptual rules to be applied to it? You are just saying bullshit.

The rules of the universe are different from math. Math is literally outside of universal laws.

So then 5= our 0 and therefore 2 times 5 = 5 and all other rules apply to 5 as would zero just a different symbol. I hope you are just one brainlet samefagging on Holla Forums has an IQ on the level of niggers.

No my 0 is your 2

If you create a videogame you can't therefore make math work differently in that videogame you created despite being able to change all physical aspects of that game.

There is no way you can prove this, even logically, unless you have been to other universes

Can you? I am the end. Durendal.

Also fuck saber/Arthur and fuck them for making Nero a fucking saber clone

IIRC didn't god curse man to go to war for trying to build that tower that one time? I know thats why he made multiple languages to prevent man from every unifying to try it again, but I can't recall if going to war was part of that.
That said, man has no nature. Nature is that which man has deemed not of himself. At least modern man, the noble savages still live in nature but they didn't go to war all that much.

Forgive me as I'm tired so I'm probobly going to do this wrong
So there is this thing called a mathmatic base
what that means is how many digists it has in it, we use a base 10
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
If you have five of an item that is to say
+++++
in base 10 this would be defined as 5
However in a base 4
1 2 3 0
Counting would go
1 2 3 10 11 12 13 20 21
So +++++ would be 11
Computers operate on base 2 also known as binary
1 0
I'm sure someone else can explain this further good night

Then you literally just changed the symbols that represent math. Do you understand basic Algebra?

Yes you can. That is literally what math is. Changing the speed of light or gravity doesn't change math. Holy shit.

That's my point.

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The speed of light isn't a constant by the way. You should know this.

No actually, there is no way you can prove what you are saying. You literally cannot prove that another dimension would have different math yet I can prove that it can through proofs that exist outside of physical laws. In fact there are literally terms in math for proofs that are self provable and therefore exist and always do outside of any application.

Then it is still the same math but with different symbols like using Roman numerals.

Yeah, light speed is a limit but because it is a limit it is impossible to go faster than it. At least with current physical laws.

You do not seem to understand what I am saying. If you are God you can change the rules of anything, nothing says God has to adhere to any set of rules even if they are universal rules. God was the beginning. Therefore He can create and bend the rules of math to his will.

He's wrong.
Communism killed Confucianism and they will likely copy us when they collapse. But essentially Confucius' entire philosophy was
And this is why Asia is filled with conformity across its traditional cultures. China was to Confucianism what Rome was to Christianity.

No, I understand what you are saying, you clearly don't understand even the most basic philosophical underpinnings of math. A single Axiom alone proves that math is not based on the universal laws we live in and therefore are ahead of it.
But you literally cannot as has been proven.
They aren't universal rules, you still don't get it, they aren't universal, they exist outside of the universe and exist in any possible existence that does exist. Any mathematical proof can be proven outside of the universal laws it exists in because they literally mean nothing in regards to that proof or axiom.
The retarded belief that god is all powerful didn't even exist until relatively recently and early jewish and Christian concepts of god don't actually support the belief that god would be all powerful which again cannot even exist on a conceptual level as proven by math.