When can we stop pretending Jason Todd was in the wrong here?

when can we stop pretending Jason Todd was in the wrong here?

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>>137639667When the number of murders in the world goes down

>>137639699 I think you meant "Murderers" but fucked up. Also, that's simply not functional in the real world; if Jason Todd kills 20 murderers, the number went down by 19. If you meant "murder" the statist would go down if a know killer that never repented or stopped dies, but the numbers can't go down by logic, no matter the action. Also, what a waste of digits. >>137639667Be the positive change OP, stop crappy threads that are just one question and no thought behind how the thread would ever go.

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>>137639667Because a single person not appointed by any sort of governing body taking it upon himself to murder someone who hasn’t been tried by a court of his peers who isn’t actively posing any sort of threat to you is wrong no matter how you cut it. Unfortunately, writers ever since Killing Joke have been hell bent on topping that story’s heinous act rather than using it as a pinnacle so really anything involving Joker in modern canon just comes across as silly.


>>137640854Which part?

>>137639667DC will never accept that Batman's philosophy is wrong.

>>137639699The number of killers in the world isn't the metric of success, its the number of victims. Guess what? If you put a killer in prison, the number of killers in the world *stays the same*, for reasons that should be obvious.

>>137639699It doesn't matter, what matters is that he stopped this one specific murderer who goes on a rampage every week and treats prison like vacation.

He wasn't wrong for that, he was wrong for being attracted to Babs of all people.

>>137641493It's not Batman's responsibility to murder criminals.

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>>137639667>HFW the number of killers stays the same

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>>137643638It's not his responsibility to patrol the streets and beat people to a pulp but he dumps millions of dollars and most of his life to it anyway.

>>137640290>Also, what a waste of digits.Sounds like it went over your head.

>>137640731>who isn’t actively posing any sort of threat to you is wrong no matter how you cut it.Even if it's someone like Joker or Kilgrave?

>>137643638Maybe after the supervillain kills one or two or even a dozen people. But Batman lost the moral high ground for why he shouldn't kill around the time Harley Quinn burned down an orphanage with exploding video game cartridges. Yes. That's a thing that happened. Remind me why people like Harley again?


>>137644325She does funny things to my pp

>>137644342Anon; just because your cock is a joke doesn't make the things done to it funny.

>>137644325I mean if you think any superhero would have a zero tolerance for child murderers and abusers policy it would be the superhero who's origin is completely steeped in childhood trauma.

>>137643638>>137641493Why is it only superheroes who are held to this standard? Knights in shining armor are allowed to kill to save the princess. Cops in cop shows are allowed to shoot terrorists to save a hostage. White hat heroic cowboys are allowed to shoot black hat evil cowboys in westerns.

>>137639699>kills two murderers

>>137644904now there are two more murders. Number of murders goes up

>>137644433At least with Daredevil it makes sense (even if Matt has killed a few people before) given the Christianity angle but with Batman it's just silly. "I can't kill anyone because then I'll get a taste for it and turn into Frank Castle" is fucking dumb.

>>137639667He was

>>137639667Joker is always right

>>137645973-right about everything.

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>>137646503>bro Joker is bad because he's a murderer so we should murder tooJason is an idiot just like all of his fans. Bruce was right to beat the shit out of his pussy "son".

>>137644932I think it's more like killing will become a crutch for Batman, where instead of figuring out a way to solve a complex problem using non-lethal means, he'll just become lazy and resort to killing immediately.

>>137644295 Yes, of course, not everybody can make such a bad post on propose. I suppose in that sense it's great.


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>>137639667Has any fan ever said that killing the Joker is wrong for any reason?

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>>137647755See >>137646549Batfags and cape nerds are a special kind of autism.


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Hack writers is the only reason that arkham can't hold anyone and the joker gets to kill thousands of innocent people. But you can't kill him because that makes you a bad guy...for some reason.

>>137639667Only batfags say Jason is in the wrong.

>>137640731>Because a single person not appointed by any sort of governing body taking it upon himself to murder someone who hasn’t been tried by a court of his peersBy that standard any vigilante is wrong.

>>137644912>strongest marine military in the world vs a stick

>>137639667he should have raped him before

>>137648137>by that standardsThat's exactly why vigilante are criminals... However, Batman is a fiction who push Bats as classical heroes who do nothing wrong and are morally correct about their choices, always. Mental gymnastic is needed to allow the writers and fans to both keep and eat their cake.

>>137639699The moment one person kills a second murderer after killing the first, there are less murderers in the world.

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>>137647755Even Batman's inner self knows killing the Joker is the right thing to do.

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>>137644228does everyone who donates money to an animal rescue have a responsibility to go kill poachers?>>137644325no, that's when Harley lost the moral high ground>>137644433superheroes aren't working within the law to begin with. they can't just go around playing judge, jury, and executioner

>>137646549Killing a murder is not murder, its justice.

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>>137648659> originally selpt with her teacher to get a degree and wanted to be a schrew whit her own tv show, guest starring Joker > adult who fall in love with a known serial killer in all her iterationsShe never had the high ground to begin with.

>>137639667We were supposed to think he did anything wrong?

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>>137640731You’re retarded and this is an awful take.

>>137643638It’s not. He’s fine not doing that.Someone else choosing to do something different doesn’t make them wrong

>>137639667Have all of you faggots forgotten Batman killed The Joker in The Killing Joke?

>>137648659>does everyone who donates money to an animal rescue have a responsibility to go kill poachers?Dumb analogy. Batman would be like an animal rights activist who partrols the forests and beats the shit out of poachers.

>>137639667He was never wrong. Killing a villain like the Joker is the only right thing and every mentally sound person would also pull the trigger here. Because killing =//= murder. This massive difference was already discovered by the Jews in Abrahamic times. Even Christianity saw this difference but over time this got bowlderized into not killing in general and thus left it all weak unless there were wars which were luckily one of those exceptions.Murder is when a person you kill is innocent or did something that was so tame the killing is seen as disproportionate to what that person did.Killing a dangerous person that did murder people is not only logical, not only is it not murder, it is both justice and to protect others from the same fate.My only gripe here is that proving murder is not always simple and that there is a possibility that you might send an innocent person to be taken care of by the executioner. Hence why such things should take as long as possible in order to collect all the data, proofs and more so to be sure that you are not sending someone innocent to their death.Any person who would call killing someone like the Joker or any other psycho as murder would imply that those people were innocent when in reality they should've been thrown into a meat grinder for all the people they murdered.Thus by extension, any super-hero, and person of authority and similar individuals who do not kill someone who is a proven murderer like The Joker are themselves murderers because they could've stopped that villain permanently yet instead they let them live, send them to Arkham or a similar place, only for them to break out and start to murder more people.

>>137649445He didn't. Alan Moore has said countless times he didn't. The story itself does not even suggest that. The canon events of its inclusion in the DC timeline does not suggest that. The only person who has ever suggested that is Grant Morrison - a guy who had zero part in writing Killing Joke and was just giving his low-iq autist opinion of it.

>>137649578Gentle reminder Morrison isn’t a guy ^_^

>>137649524it's all just a matter of how far you're taking itin your analogy there's still no "responsibility" to take it farther and murder people, that's absurd

>>137649615Batman not being obligated doesn’t mean Jason is wrong for doing it

>>137640731Yes we do, especially when it comes to extrajudical terrorists which is why bounties are put on said people to this day. Osama Bin Laden had a Do bounry on him for years that anyone could claim if they bagged and tagged him which would definitely apply to the Joker once he atarted using dirty bombs or chemical warfare. Shit if he was still workimg with the Ayatollah like rhe old days putting Jews into his Joker Gas Oven, he'd be merc'd by MOSSAD in a heartbeat and (You) would be sucking their kosher cocks clean off for it.

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>>137639699Given the number of people Joker kills on a years basis, the number of murders is guaranteed to drop significantly.

>>137649623>Batman not being obligated doesn’t mean Jason is wrong for doing itnever said he was, i said Batman doesn't have a responsibility to do it

>>137643638I'm less annoyed by Batman refusing to summarily execute criminals and more at how he'll go out of his way to save their lives, over and over again. If a psychopath is throwing bombs everywhere and causes the building he's in to collapse, let him get crushed to death.

Even Jedi Kill their enemies when necessary. BATMAN is just a scared little cuck.

>>137644433Superheroes were explicitly marketed to kids, and the Comics Alliance were rife with puritans who considered every aspect of superhero literature as degeneracy that encouraged violence and lawlessness as a solution to any problem--brought about thanks to EC stirring the beehive by not giving a shit about the kids. It's a whole historical context which gets stupidly reinforced by the mass public because the publishers managed to find a sweet spot at one point that allowed them to "be above the claims" so to speak while hiring many writers who have their heads up their own asses.That's how you get shit like this thread.

>>137649725I agree. Batman choosing not to kill is a-ok. Batman stopping Jason from ending the nightmare isn’t.

>>137648677says who?

>>137648480Batman is a pulp hero and those guys killed all the time. BurtonBats was much closer to its pulp roots and was all the better for it.

>>137650828>batman stopping crime from happening is bad

>>137646573That’s ridiculous. Plenty of heroes will avoid killing if they can, but will do it if they need to.

>>137639667The entire ethos of Batman has been completely ruined by taking the core concepts to an autistic and absurd degree. The real Batman doesn't use guns, but isn't some crybaby that's going to faint from having to use one to threaten someone. The real Batman doesn't kill, but would breath a sigh of relief knowing the Joker will never hurt anyone again. The real Batman knows he's Bruce Wayne, and is Batman to fight injustice.

>>137646573Also there will be no difference between Batman and Punisher. Minus the suit.Also there will be no stories, because Batman just murders everyone on sight and authors can come up with shit nowadays. What's that? New villain? Blam. Fucking dead. How's that entertaining or witty?

>>137639667bat's face whenever joker gets killed is always like>oh no what will DC do now

>>1376396993.5% of the population (black males aged 13 - 35). Over 60% of non-familial violent assaults nationwide.

>>137651728>Every law is always just period

Personally if I were a hero I'd straight up kill every supervillain. How many times has Batman sent Joker to Arkham at this point?

>>137653420>non-familialWhite people do love to annihilate their entire families.

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>>137651860Batman refuses to kill because he understands that he's a masked vigilante motivated by revenge and that both for public perception, personal accountability, and mental stability it's a very good idea not to cross that line. If he sees one of his fellow masked vigilantes kill, he's not going to think "well, good, this masked vigilante motivated by revenge surely has more discipline and a better ability to manage public perception than me, so it's probably fine" ESPECIALLY not if it's a masked vigilante motivated by revenge that he helped bring into the world. The idea of a gruff noire Batman brushing off killings, saying "one less asshole in the world" is pretty incompatible with a Batman training proteges.

>>137649725This is why Terry was the best Batman. Doesn't kill, but will avert his gaze and start whistling if a murderous phychopath is dangling off the side of a building.

>>137639667Why not just send him to space at this point?

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>>137654906And have the writers come up with Joker: Galactic Conqueror?

>>137654974Damn they would.

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>>137643638But his obligation

>>137643638Batman is a dumb bitch.

>>137646573No, Bruce is a straight-up psychopathic retard now, according to Morrison and Death Metal. He's just a bloodthirsty hypocrite.

>>137655454>doesn't kill people >is bloodthirsty

>>137654974>Joker finally dies >Goes straight to hell >Becomes King Of Hell/Chaos due to bullshit political demon shenanigans>Cause cosmic unbalance > Batman forces magic nerds to resurrect him and dump him in gotham .

>>137655589He wants to. Turns out Frank Miller was being charitable with the sadism Bruce is bottling-up.

>>137655609This is exactly what would happen, beat for beat, and the smug writer will tweet to the readers and be like>See, THIS is why Batman doesn't kill Joker ;^)as if they didn't just write one of the worst stories ever.

>>137651860>The real Batman doesn't kill, but would breath a sigh of relief knowing the Joker will never hurt anyone againNo the batman would not be relieved because he believes everyone deserves to be saved. Even the joker. Because once you start picking who is and isn't worth saving you stop being a hero and start being a politician>>137646573Throughout this thread this is the only right response. Honestly this whole riddle was solved for me when I read the Injustice comics. It's not about perching on a high horse. It's about drawing a line in the sand because without it when will know when to stop?

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this thread is silly. These aren't real characters and they get molded to whatever the current writer needs. They lean heavy on the borderline schizo batman nowadays because it's easier to create drama for

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>>137655684>this whole riddle was solved for me when I read the Injustice comicsFucking retard, just for admitting that.

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>>137655752>he might've sent thousands to die in a foreign land!Comics were so goddamned based."There is a deeply Semitic influence in the press... We fought the wrong enemy." -Patton


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>>137655609I had an idea for my own story where after an Injustice 'nuking metropolis' level of evil. The normal people in gotham and DC have finally had enough of Joker and Gothams criminals getting away with their crimes. so end up storming arkham like the bastille and killing offf (or attempting to kill off) most of Gothams rogues gallery by themselves. Doing what the 'never kill no exceptions' heroes never would.

>>137639667I'd have a lot more respect for Batman's "no kill" policy if it had been motivated by real ethical concerns rather than editor intervention to keep the stories kid friendly.

>>137640731>t. boot lickerkeep worshiping the people who exploit and oppress you

>>137639667The "killing is wrong" narrative has done irreparable damage to society.

>>137650491So, it really doesn't matter ultimately. It's just censorship reasons that refused to go away.

>>137650491Damn Wertham.

>>137657444Agreed. Bring back honor killings too.

>>137639667Yyou.cant saybhes crazy when he's literally planning this shit out, this is why Batman sucks ass because ititerally makes no sense for him to be held to a higher standard when he could easily use use his money to make Arkham inescapable, with high tech justice league satalite bs, man could literally turn got him into wakanda and just doesn't.Batman is literally playing a game with his ghetto ass city.

>>137640731Bro when has joker ever even been to court in cannon.

>>137657614How about instead of Arkham, Batman sends the criminals to another planet far away from Gotham and the DC earth?

>>137657630The one where he was convicted for a crime he didn't commit and almost got the death penalty for it.

There's nothing wrong with batman's ideal. He doesn't get to decide who lives or dies.Society, through it's laws does (whether by social consensus or some other measure). The best batman can do is hold people accountable to society. Joker repeatedly escaping capital punishment just shows where the priorities and cultural values lie in the fictional society of gotham/dc/whatever

>>137657630I don't think he's ever been to court in a cannon, but then again, rolling into a courtroom as a human cannonball does seem like a Joker thing to do

>>137639667"Oh what, are you going to kill me? You'll just become another killer. You'll never do it because you have a CODE. And if you kill me, you'll have to start killing EVERYBODY.""No, not really. I'm a complex human being capable of using human judgement to solve complicated situations. I'm going to kill *you*, but that's because you continue to pose an active and believable threat to innocent people, and I cannot reasonably expect you to change. And the chance you might prove me wrong on that kept me from killing you, but every encounter we had reduced that believability, and now we have passed a sort of super-saturation point. Killing you now saves lives, and leaving you alive threatens them. It's the trolley problem, and the trolley is this bullet."Drama over

>>137639667Jason can never be right because he really was just angry at his Batman stepdaddy for not killing the joker for revenge instead out of some belief the joker has to die for the greater good.

>>137649604For magic purposes, he isn't. 's like how Odin wore women's clothing so he could use woman magic and man magic at the same time.


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>>137657137Reminds me of Hitman, which first arc was about Tommy being hired to kill Joker who's stuck in Arkham and when word comes around about it... the people just asks Tommy if he could also whack other folk in Arkham in the meantime and the cops only try to stop him because Batman forced their hand.Of course the whole mess was a ploy by a demon to tak Tommy's soul, but it leads to a hilarious moment when Joker does get shot... by accident.

>>137639667Batman is right, killing is wrong. Does it work in the real world? Of course not. But we're talking about fantasy, and Jason is a piece of shit who should have stayed dead, he contributed much more to the myth of Batman being dead than as an incel who wanted to be in his big brother's shoes.

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>>137655609I'm pretty sure he sold his soul to Nekron, so when he dies, he would literally cease to exist.

>>137651697Usually the court system

At the end of the day, no matter how many writers or fans try to justify it, Batman’s refusal to not only kill Joker, but let him die has painted their relationship as one of reliance. Animated did it best. When Tim killed Joker, Batman wasn’t enraged at Tim for being a murderer, or the fact that Joker had been killed. He was depressed that Tim had to be the one to do it. It’s all a big shitshow, DC can’t lose Joker cause he’s a huge cash cow, but the longer he stays the more it ruins Batman’s philosophy and character.

>>137657775There is everything wrong with his ideal. You believing in it shows how sheltered you and many others are. Try getting out of your comfort zone and see the world for what it really is. Not everyone deserves to be saved. Especially those who take pleasure in the pain of others.

>>137658999Jason literally should have been "The Batman that Kills" and taken out all the unnecessary C and D-list members of Batman's Rogue's Gallery. Hell, making him the government's Batman would have been better than anything they've actually done with him since Under the Red Hood. In fact, you can't really convince me that he wasn't suppose to flat out die from this originally, but editorial asked for him to stay an active character, even though they didn't know what to do with him.

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>>137658607>He thinks Jason became a crime lord for nothing.

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>>137659327>you can't really convince me that he wasn't suppose to flat out die from this originallyYou can't have Batman fucking kill Jason over the Joker in a story about how he refuses to kill. Look at the shitposting we have now over Batman just fighting to stop the Joker from being murdered. Could you fucking IMAGINE if Batman had killed Jason, accidentally or not, over this? There'd be rioting in the streets. It'd be far, far stupider than the dumbshit we get now over this issue.

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>>137639667Jason is a crazu murderer too.If Barbara killed him I would agree with you

>>137643638>Guy murders both your parents>world is down two innocent peopleLogic dictates you need to kill two murderers just to even the score. I mean if you really cared about balancing the scales of justice that is and were not just a billionaire with a savior fetish.

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>>137657630He has. And usually he just starts killing people in the courtroom with him for the hell of it

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>>137655684Injustice's concept is beyond retarded dude. And in this particular situation Joker would've been finally executed because he nuked Metropolis if Supes didn't kill him earlier.>>137663152Kill =//= Murder. Those are two different things.

>>137648659>superheroes aren't working within the law to begin with. they can't just go around playing judge, jury, and executionerthe only way it makes sense for batman is if he is avoiding becoming a murderer because that's crossing a line he can't come back from, and two, it would make him a wanted killer. it's one thing to play ally to the police and kidnap, restrain, taint evidence, and beat up would be found guilty criminals, but killing the thugs would mean that a masked man is killing people and faces no recourse. a bridge WAY too far.the other stuff about 'the number of murderers' and 'it makes me no better than them' is a bit of a cop out. just say that going to trial for the murder of someone would be risky to his career and the people of gotham.

>>137639667He committed murder for purely selfish reasons so he is wrong

Why doesn't Superman just fly around Gotham and round up all the criminals in a couple of seconds?

If you want Batman and co. to murder supervillains they have to go to prison and serve time for murder afterwards.

>>137664342Insanity Plea means he's innocent.

>>137659096>>137664342Jasonfags are retarded. Murder is unlawful killing with malice aforethought. Unless done in the heat of the moment under self-defence, killing is murder. Jason is a murderer and deserves to be hanged for what he's done.

>>137657444True we should start by killing people like you. That would fix society.

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