Sword fighting/fencing/melee weapons

The thing is, you can divide swordfighting into two parts. Let's call the them outfighting and infighting, for simplicity's sake.

Outfighting is when you are out of measure, that is to say even if you take a step and strike you will not be able to hit your opponent. That means both of you are safe and can think freely and try to observe and outwit the opponent.

Infighting is when you are at a range where your swords are able to connect and you are able to hurt the other if they were not to dodge of block with a single movement. Usually, at this range, newbies run into the deer-in-headlights issue where once the swords clash and get "stuck" in one another they don't know what to do. Here you will find most of the skill in swordsmanship, because you have to know what you can do in each position and be able to judge the opponents intent and strength not with your eyes and observation, but through the sense of touch through the sword known as fuhlen in German or il sensazion di ferro in Italian. and intuition born through training and muscle memory.

Mount & Blade and its offshoots replicate the Outfighting aspect quite well, even if technically speaking all the attacks are quite atrocious in form. Things like fighters and beat 'em ups also do this well. But this mindgames aspect of Outfighting, which is sort of like Rock, Paper & Scissors with distance and timing thrown in, is only half the art.

To my knowledge no game can even begin to grasp the Infighting aspects, which is a real shame since all the really cool techniques are there.
"With this technique you can remove four teeth. It has been done." -Fiore

Shitposting aside I think Samsho tried to do infighting, but it boiled down to button mashing in early games and playing VS rhythm game in later ones.

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You could roughly divide various infighting techniques into a binary choice based on who is "stronger" in a situation and from there make a sort of flowchart for techniques. But ultimately since you can't replicate the sense of touch yet it would be pretty far removed from the real thing.

Especially since you're eyes are pretty slow to react. IIRC your eyes are like 1.5 times slower than your sense of touch, which is why Souls games and M&B generally have huge telegraphing start ups even if the attacks are fairly quick. Though, if you linked the bind into audio cues, it could work somehow. Like a changing pitch for how "strong" you are in each situation meaning you should choose the right moved out of a couple of options based on the sound feedback from a clash. And since your reaction speed from hearing is even faster than from your sense of touch, it could actually turn into a pretty fast game.

Completely and utterly removed of real swordfighting, but still it could have a pretty high skillceiling.

Haven't played it, so I can't really say.

The problem with that is two fold.

For one, it doesn't have the Infighting aspect, where the blades are touching and based on that you have to decide what to do. And secondly, there's no sideways motion. The three-dimensional aspect of swordfighting is what makes it so complex.

Here is some stage fighting(but it is based on real techniques and manuals) showcasing just how crazy rapiers can be.
youtu.be/MtYeXSGAxf4?t=2m44s

What do you fags know about sword fighting?

Dark Messiah Might and Magic

This feels weird to watch.

More than those guys, since beating against plate armor with a sword isn't swordfighting. Wrestling an armored opponent to the ground is a different skillset entirely.

M8 do you honestly think in blossfechten with sharp weapons the techniques these guys have been relying on would be of any use at all?

JK and JA's multiplayer was actually designed to be similar to Quake 3, but most of the community scrapped it and still plays today using the same ruleset:
It's incredibly deep and even has a Linux port.

Cunts need to play a different game if they don't want to face the Force.

Mount and Blade Bannerlord, and Mordhau.

Yeah, no shit, since we don't have tactile feedback, and like you said using other senses to figure out what the fuck is going on is pointless.

Could rumble be used effectively for this purpose?

I don't remember if it was in JO or JA, but in one of them I figured out an actual stun lock combo using fast saber style + max Force Pull + jump kick (maybe + rolling or something too it's been years…). anyway you'd roll or dash parry into an opponents attack and then either do the kick or the pull then alternate between the two.

Did you just posted that to make me sad? Fuck, it's still hurts…

no

Most everything's been mentioned already, though I'd say For Honor if you're looking for something more like a fighting game, though it's p2p which means the bigger gamemodes don't work nearly as well as the 1v1 dueling

What
Nidhogg's mind games and tactical options remain present well within striking distance, which you're generally always in unless you're running around like a retard because it's a game about fencing

seriously souls is lacking as fuck.

Clang… Oh wait it turns out that even swordfighting experts realized that realistic swordfighting makes for shitty video games.

I admit, I never played it, but Absolver seems to be the type of game that should do infighting well. it's a game in which you build a deck of moves for your character, and you can only do a certain move if you are in a certain stance, and some moves put you from one stance to another, and theoreticaly your opponent should figure out what you are going to do from your current stance and he will either try to block or counter-attack. The game is mostly multiplayer focused, and I don't know how big the community is right now.

Hooktube link:
hooktube.com/watch?v=9doqrSIy2O4

Why not?

Bushido Blade

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Yeah, really life you fucking nerds.

t. person who has never fenced

Guilty Gear XX series

A game doesn't need to be like real life to be fun, you fucking autismo.

Nobody said it did.

Fuck, I forgot about this game. I'm really tempted to get it.

I use FIST

wrong, dark hand and the grapple pyromancy in 3
you can knock people down in a variaty of ways, but you are right about tripping
its a third person game user…
I am not trying to say souls is actually deeper then real life like the shitposter you were replying to I am just shooting the shit, it is good though.

Sadly it didn't caught on all that much. It's not as dead as Blunderborn or GenderNeutralBathrooms and the fact that most battles are 1v1 means that you will find some matches, sadly For Honor still has more players than this game.

I guess the issue here is one of controls. Moving a sword would essentially be moving a cylinder object in 3D space with full rotation in 3 axis as well and you really can't do that very well with M&K or even a controller.
At best you can move in 2 directions with Mouse and click either button to either rotate on one axis or move in another dimension.

VR peripherals seem like a better alternative but since there's nothing IRL to mimic the physics, the second you swing and your sword stops when it clashes but your controller doesn't, you have a disconnect.

I suppose a fix for this is to have "stances" that dictate the type of movement your sword executes to handle the rotation aspect and then let mouse movement handle the directions. It's movement handles the sword in a plane perpendicular to the ground and mouse clicks "extend" your reach, moving the sword forward.

From that point, you'd have a stance where you swing your sword hilt-first in a swing motion and another where you go tip first, in a stabbing motion.
Maybe have RClick alternate between stances.

Not sure if this solves the problem in it's entirety though, there's probably a lot of other things to cover but we'd need an expert opinion here.

Because rumble only serves to vibrate a bit for feedback, not stop movement.
You swing and hit a sword or armor and your visual model in the game stops there but your controller keeps going breaking the illusion.

+For Honor
These

I'm actually really surprised that Absolver died, what happened? Did they cuck it up or what?

Mordahu

Show me a single bind, where they simultaneously parry aside a blow and kill their opponent. That's Infighting. You know, the thing which they show in the linked video constantly.

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no u

If that's the case then Devil May Cry -4- is the only correct answer.

Die by the Sword is unsurpassed in swordplay mouse controls.

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This is a breddy gud swordfight.

I didn't see any from the parts I watched. It does the Outfighting well enough, but there didn't seem to be any moments where they attacked, the attack was parried and the weapons/attacks stayed connected and then based on the biomechanics of the two fighters, a specific move could then be initiated to defeat the other.
Yeah, that's Outfighting to a T. It looks neat enough at that and seems like it works.

Because it's not detailed enough information. You have to feel where on the sword the pressure is and how hard it is and into what direction. For example, Fiore dei Liberi preferred to keep things simple enough(because he taught mercenaries how to fight, for example), but his first Largo play(Outfighting) has three outcomes, based on what the opponent did. You read the information through your sense of touch, which is faster than your eyes and tells you more.

I know this is bait but that art style makes me simultaneously disgusted and angry.
Take your (you) and leave me be.

Blade Symphony, but it's super fucking dead. If only it were free, I think it's prime gamenight material.

Just pirate it, it's not hard.

I don't have a switch so I don't know if it's good enough, but that sounds like something its AICH DEE rumble could be used for

The names, man. The fucking names. At least the ones in sorta make sense from the position you're in.

I suppose that almost nothing of this applies to more exotic weapons though like scimitars that seem mostly about the Outfighting and making clean cuts and swipes instead of clashing against one another?

In all seriousness though, I have an ideafag written somewhere that has muh realism but in vidya. Too bad I'm too lazy/too busy to go make it.
What's a game engine you think I could faff around in? Unity isn't.. horrible… and Holla Forums hates it, unreal is just…. not nice to use… from a programmer's perspective. Tried just making a 3D box move along a plane and couldn't because I had to do it through that blockbuilder bullshit instead of just writing a script and attaching that to the box.

Depends on a lot of things, but it's still possible. I mean, there are generally very similar principles which apply to all swords. The two hands on the hilt merely increase your strength in certain things. But a good example would be the Polish saber, which does not have a lot of the things I describe with a longsword, but still uses a thing called the "cross-cut". The cross-cut is essentially hitting the opponents sword with your own so that it bounces off of the opponent's sword in mid-swing, causing his sword to veer off to the side while yours reflects right into him.

And if you have a shield, like a buckler like in Shastar Vidya where they do use curved one-handed swords, you can still do very intricate bindwork just like in European one-handed sword & buckler swordfighting. Sword & buckler (or any shield, really. Center-grip more than strapped, but still) is like chess; it's great.
youtube.com/watch?v=PfpVWmizjRo

Langes messer also shows how to go into grappling with a one-handed sword and how to work the bind as well.

Well, winden is a basic technique where you wind your weak position in a strong one so you can attack the opponent. Often into a stab. There are special versions, called the inwinden and the auswinden, literally meaning inside-wind and outside-wind. The outside-wind is just so fucking unintuitive that it makes literally zero sense unless you understand 100% what it's about and know just when to use it.

I have literally never seen anyone use that fucking guard outside of greatswords. My personal favorite meme guard is the bicorno.

Me neither, but I doubt it. Hell, even fairly realistic simulacrum of swords like practice swords made out of nylon do not replicate it well at all.

It's a multiplayer game, very much like Absolver.
I swear if either of those games, or Warframe were built from the ground up to be singleplayer we'd have a blast but fucking multiplayer has to worm its way into everything.
Fuck multiplayer games.

warframe is co-op and can be played solo just fine
It's not garbage because there's other people, it's garbage because it's a shitty wave defense shooter with tons of autistic and poorly balanced RPG elements shoved in to extend the grind

It was never built in mind for a singleplayer campaign, it was built in mind for a grindy f2p multiplayer shitfest.

Are you kidding me? Playing with multiple people who aren't just pubs getting carried makes the game a complete joke unless you stay in endless missions until the enemies scale up to retarded unintended numbers
The game is clearly balanced around one person, and then shit like enemy numbers scale up depending on additional players

You're misunderstanding me.
They didn't want a standard, well crafted single player campaign.
They wanted something, online(I guess multiplayer is the wrong choice of words here but I'm not buying it) that they could exploit for money and nothing else. The shitty wave defense shooter part is just a result of that.

I guess
That doesn't really apply to those other games, though, since they're pvp fighting games

Yeah that is pretty funny. Though I would think at least with the schlussel it's more of a resting stance since it sits on your arm a bit- I've tried it with a cheap longsword I own and you can actually get a pretty quick strike out of it, or a thrust. Never really sparred, so take my word with a grain of salt I guess.

If you are into boxing this is the most realistic boxing game I ever played in my life. Makes fight night look like ready to rumble. Sadly it's a low budget japanese title based on anime/manga and I'm pretty sure that all the genius in this game is lost in the epochs of time. Lightning in a bottle. The game accurately depicts, stamina, chin, counterpunching, FOOTWORK(most important part because videogame combat rarely understand the importance of footwork in melee combat)

Other than this I saw someone post exanima which has really good combat but at this stage it's too hard to control and become extremely proficient.

Except that's probably how 90 percent of swordfights actually went down(unless of course you are running down unarmored peasants)
Just because you are a knight and the other guy is doesn't mean you are good graceful dance partners. In battle it's very likely that you will clash with your armored opponent and wrestler with each other whilst trying to pierce his visor with a dagger.

depends on what you mean by "realistic swordfighting"
a realistic swordfight is in actuality hundreds of guys who aren't masters of really anything going at it sloppily until one side ends up dead. Being a swordsmaster is something that is good for impressing fair ladies at tournies not for the battlefield where you can just have a fucking barbarian berserker knock you on your knightly ass then have his men clobber you until you resemble a wet bag of laundry.

First of all, the sword was most commonly used as a sidearm; that is when you were on your daily business. The Germans call is blossfechten, when you're out of armor and literally just have a sword.

So no, 90% of fights wouldn't have been in armor because that was such a huge investment of time and effort to get into and once you were in armor you'd just use something else and only fall back to a sword once your lance or bow failed.

Secondly, armored fighting involves just as much skill as unarmored. It's just a bit different. It's essentially halberd fighting at a shorter range. There are entire treatises about it. youtu.be/7Ijy8Ky_vrI?t=4m50s

First of all, swords were secondary weapons. Based on knightly accounts, it was usually the second to come out once your lance shattered, taking priority over hand-axes and maces and the like. Secondly, a single knight was a mounted warrior who could take on dozens of people.

Nobles were people who, unlike most of the population, always had the necessary food and free time to actually cultivate the skills you'd want to have on a battlefield. Horsemanship, arms mastery, tactics and strategy.

They were essentially the tanks of the medieval world. Your larp "barbarian berserkers" are a joke, with no factual basis.
Jesus fucking Christ, no. Skirmishing and commanding troops is a skill in and of itself. Being a noble meant you were of the warrior caste, essentially. If you couldn't effectively kill, you didn't last very long as a landed noble.