If Jedi are one man armies that can stop laser blasts and punch droids like cardboard...

If Jedi are one man armies that can stop laser blasts and punch droids like cardboard, how did they get mass sucker punched by Clones?

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>>137268606Yeah it was never well thought out.The funny thing is KotOR 2 had a way more well thought out Jedi purge than ROTS did.

>>137268606Plot convenience.

>>137268606Maybe it's just the small handful of top tier Jedi who were that strong, and most of them were just dudes with laser swords and slightly faster reflexes than normal.

>>137268606Because George spent too much time fucking around in the Prequels than he did putting together a sensible plot.

>>137268676but I thought the prequels were cool now, ackshually.

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>>137268689I don't care what the Redditors say, the Prequels are still bad

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>>137268606Backstabs bro, lots and lots of backstabs>inb4 coping and seething about shatterpoints, Force precognition etcEngineering > The Force, cope.

>>137268606Bad writing but I figure that Sidious was counting on the Jedi and Clones becoming attatched so when Order 66 got triggered the Jedi would be too stunned to fight back effectively.But then I just like the laser swords and don't think too hard about the rest of it.

>>137268703True enlightenment is understanding that the OT is bad too. It's all bad. The only good thing that came out of Star Wars was tertiary shit like video games.

>>137268703Filtered, Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars moviet. never even been to Reddit

>>137268606Pretty much this >>137268668Mace Windu was just a lot more dangerous than other Jedi.Grievous could beat lower tier Jedi without using force powers. Savage Opress could seemingly do it as well, though since he's force sensitive it's hard to say it counts. Not sure he could even block blaster shots.

>>137268729Not trying to sound like a powerlevel autist but the outcome of fights were really stupid, the only decent fight was Sidious vs Yoda and even that was forced because Yoda just going through Palpatine defenses by himself even though his apprentices were all dead was a retarded plan.

>>137268750I hate how Mace Windu is so important and powerful even though they are never relevant to the plot of the series or movies, he's barely a side character.

>>137268628HK says that the more planned out an attempt on a Jedi's life is, the less likely it is to succeed. So flipping a switch and putting allies the Jedi trust with their lives into instant murder mode seems like a pretty good way to kill a bunch of them, really.

>Windu could just use The Force to crush Grievous's shit giving him his cough at the beginning of ROTS>somehow doesn't think to use this technique against SidiousAnakin was able to defeat him in a nerfed state by just lifting him up and throwing him down a shaft, and this fucker thought he wasn't worthy of being a Master?

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>>137268770The chip was stupid though, the clones are brainwashed child soldiers from the DNA of a sociopath they shouldn't need it to betray the Jedi

>>137268770>>137268794Always hated that the Clones were the "good guys" for the Republic. They should have been the aggressors that took the Republic by surprise and required an all out Draft that would militarize the people and make them extremely loyal to the state. Should have also took a page from the Mandalorian wars in the EU and make it so most Jedi were pacifists that didn't want to get involved (were peace keepers not soldiers) which would help Palpatine harbor hatred towards them. Make it so Obi Wan, Anakin, and a few other Jedi fight for the Republic anyways which would help with Anakin's fall seeing the Jedi as being useless just like how they were useless in freeing the slaves of tatoonie as well as useless in protecting people from the clone menace. That way the entirety of the Empire would absolutely hate Jedi and overwhelm them in numbers.

>>137268794Don't need it, but makes the betrayal work. Having the clones be in on the order for 3 years whilst working next to mind readers is more contrived

>>137268793I remember there was a fan explanation that only those who can tap into the Dark Side can use the force crush

>>137268606Genndy shit was never canon. It was an over-the-top toy ad, not a real representation of Star Wars.

>>137268856It was a clever writing device and analogy without the chip it shows how an entire generation of good well intentioned people can do terrible things without thinking it's evil if brainwashed by the state since they were toddlers, the chip is just a lazy deus ex machina

>>137268856One comic explains it that, among Order 66, there were many other orders including to one to take the palace and arrest the Emperor. Or something to that effect. So it would have been obfuscated among the other orders.

>>137268793Well Grievous was mostly robot. Maybe he only crushed the robot part. It could be that crushing non-living stuff is way easier. Like how blood bending is inexplicably way harder than regular water bending for no reason.

>>137268794The entire clone army concept is badly realized and only salvaged because it's really cool on paper. Why are the Jedi fine, even initially with a slave race of living people born to die? How could one planet's worth of cloning facilities ever keep up with Droid factories that could be dropped on any friendly planet and made to churn them out by the tens of thousands daily?The chips kind of make sense because Sheev wants zero possibility of mental resistance to the true purpose of the clones. It's stupid but it's far from the stupidest thing going on with the concepts at play.

>>137268914>Why are the Jedi fine, even initially with a slave race of living people born to die?The republic itself being fine with it was insane.

>>137268914Not to mention it really diminishes the impact of the war for people.In all reality who's going to give a shit about a war where no one has personal investment in? The only thing people have to worry about is collateral damage while the vast majority of casualties are just robots and mindless clones.

>>137268770That literally required excessive planning due to retcons though

>>137268761>he wants the already incredibly small setting that is Star Wars to be even smaller by forcing everyone with a unique skill to be relevent to the entire plot

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>>137268962It worked in the Lord of the rings, it also worked in the original trilogy, if a character was introduced they would have a purpose and some development.

>>137268703I don't care what faggots on 4chan say, the tragic story of Anakin recontextualizes Darth Vader in a way that unequivocally improves his character

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>>137268943Why do the Jedi even care about the Republic losing territory and member systems? Is there some hard and fast light side rule that you *have* to submit yourself to a non-force using authority or else? What happens when that authority is clearly corrupt or incompetent and being able to use the Jedi as a crutch to stay in power and keep things running incentivizes further bad leadership? What's the functional difference between Jedi taking military command of the clones and like, participating in elections and clandestine government and how is the former ok but not the latter?Don't think about it. Space samurais and dog fights though!

>>137268606This scene was the whole reason I thought Windu was cool. He was just kind of there in the movies and him killing Jango was so dismissive it just made Jango look like a chump, it didn't really make Windu look powerful.

>>137269008This is exactly why they should have acted the exact same way they did in the Madalorian Wars.

>>137268962Windu canonically has that wether the movies bring it up or not so it doesn't matter.

>>137268981>entirely ignores the arc where Frodo meets the strongest being in LOTR and thinks of him as just some weird guy who then proceeds to have no impact on the plot

>>137268703>posts a reddit cartoonIt’s the other way around retard, Reddit loves the sequels and you should go back

>>137269002It makes him still being a Sith and agree with Palpatine views stupid, it would be better if they simply doubled down on the scene where he show clear fascist beliefs and never believed in democracy to begin with.

>>137269008This always bugged me about the prequels. Why were the space monks who were also cops picking sides like that? Just cause they saw members of the republic get bullied once?

>>137268880You don't know the meaning of the word 'deus ex machina', please, stop posting. Using 'big words' you heard from some e-celeb won't make your posts seem smarter to anyone who actually knows the meaning of the words you're using.

What I don't get is why every Jedi who doesn't toe the Jedi line ends up as a supervillain. You'd think some of them would just want a life of luxury and fucking hot space babes, and they would just go work for the Hutts or something instead of trying to conquer the galaxy.

>>137269032Tom Bombadil had a clear purpose in the story and a lot of development.

>>137269008>>137269045Did you even watch the movies, dumbasses? Count Dooku was going to attack the Republic, regardless. The Jedi did not intervene when the planets seceded from the Republic. They intervened when Count Dooku organized a terrorist attack in the center of Coruscant and tried to murder Padme, which led them to the discovery of Dooku amassing droid armies in league with Trade Federation's Nute Gunray, Commerce Guilds, etc, and that he was going to put the Republic to its knees. Obi-Wan literally heard that in a secret meeting they were having.

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>>137269061>an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.It was. The clone loyalty to Palpatine was a logical conclusion to the concept, the chip was out of nowhere.

>>137268914This is why Zahn had a completely different vision of the Clone Wars, where certain important people were cloned for some Manchurian Candidate shit eventually leading to open war

>>137268606Because the clones are also like that

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>>137268714Don’t be too proud of your technological terrors.

>>137269105>an unexpected power or eventIt wasn't unexpected. The Kaminoans implanted all the clones with it at the earliest stages of their development, and there was an entire arc dedicated specifically to it. It wasn't out of nowhere.>The clone loyalty to PalpatineThey were not loyal to Palpatine in that regard. They were loyal to Darth Sidious, which was a result of their programming implanted in the organic inhibitor chip that was a part of their brain. That's how it always was.>Filoni: Again, all of these stories originated with George [Lucas], and he wanted to tell the story of Order 66. He seemed very interested in getting into the details of that story and what drives it. [...] From my earliest conversations with George coming onto Clone Wars, as far back as 2005 when I put to him "What was Order 66, and how did it work?”, he was always connected to the idea that it was somewhat of a Manchurian Candidate concept. When the order goes down, it's not like the clones have a real way to say, "No, I'm not going to do this.” >"Karen Traviss, she didn't get everything right. It is very clear if you watch Revenge of the Sith, that it [Order 66] is not an order on the books. And it's simple from this one detail, that Karen Traviss ignored, but the detail is when Sidious shows up as a hologram and says, 'Execute Order 66,' the clones say, 'It will be done, my lord.' Not 'yes, sir,' not 'yes, chancellor.' 'It will be done, my lord.' The brain washing kicks in the moment they hear the words 'Order 66,' and they look at that hologram and they see god. They see the man responsible for their creation, Darth Sidious, and that's what it is. Commander Cody has never seen a Sith Lord. If you are going to take Lucas and Filoni to task for changing the Mandalorians, you have to take Karen Traviss to task for changing one of the most key plot points of the entire saga." — Sam Witwer, The Voice Of The Republic Podcast Episode 17, Jan 26, 2013

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>>137269087So Tom Bombadil did and Mace Windu didnt?

>>137269180NTA but what did Mace Windu do that couldn't have been done by any other nameless Jedi Council member? Literally nothing. He is essentially a pointless character.

>>137269169>It wasn't unexpected. The Kaminoans implanted all the clones with it at the earliest stages of their development, and there was an entire arc dedicated specifically to it. It wasn't out of nowhere.I saw the scene again, it was never mentioned at least not in the 2 and 3 movie where the events are shown to the reader again, it was stated that they were raised and genetically changed to be completely loyal and obedient to the goverment, there was no need for chips, by watching the movie you would think there was no chip due to it being pointless.

>>137268606If Sauron was such an all-powerful being with dark magic and unstoppable hosts at his command, how did he get sucker punched by a Shire rat?

>>137269229Because he was busy fighting a superhuman demigod king-warrior chad, the wisest angel in the world and an angry dwarf.

>>137269224The movies are not from the POV of the clones, and therefore it is not necessary to know for the immediate story of the fall of the Anakin Skywalker and the rise of the Empire. Just like it was not necessary to know about midi-chlorians in the original films, yet they are a thing and give you a deeper understanding of the Force and how it all works.

>>137269198You can apply this to every character though. What purpose does Tom have wich cannot be replaced with literally anyone else who comes to save Frodo and friends from danger. He only put on the ring and that was as irrelevant to the plot as it comes. If that justifies him being there then Mace Windus light saber colour is also enough justification for him being there.

>>137269095Uh huh. Very good. That's in the second movie. So why after that point did they suddenly act like buddies of the republic's army? Why did they even make themselves vulnerable to something like Order 66. It eventually comes down to them putting to much stake and or trust in the republic. That's the issue.

>>137269312I'm not the user that Argued Tom was an necessary character. I'd argue the opposite because you're right, he is pointless. It's why he wasn't in any of the films because he really had no effect on the story at large.

>>137269159Yeah people forget that select clones could go anime mode too.

>>137268855Based take. Reminds of the old EU where Clone Wars was still a mystery and some catastrophic upheaval.

So do Jedi have a closet full of identical robes, or do they only get one set at a time? I wonder what doing laundry is like for them. I like to imagine they have a laundromat style room somewhere in the temple, and at any given time there's a couple Jedi awkwardly sitting there in like a t-shirt and sweatpants or something while waiting for their robes to dry.

>>137269312>What purpose does Tom have wich cannot be replaced with literally anyone else who comes to save Frodo and friends from danger.He's a mystery, his presence alone drastically change the worldbuilding. They have a purpose and development.

>>137269324>So why after that point did they suddenly act like buddies of the republic's army?Because they were assigned as generals by the Senate and the Republic, and they were up to the task. Because they had to protect the Republic, because it's their duty, because they've been doing it for over a 1000 years, because the Republic is democracy and civilization, and they could not allow Dooku, his cronies like Grievous and Ventress, and their droid armies to commit atrocities and destroy the way of life for trillions of people, only to replace it with tyranny. Count Dooku was going to attack the Republic regardless, Sidious and Dooku were going to start a war regardless, and the Jedi could not let that happen. They had to protect the people.>Why did they even make themselves vulnerable to something like Order 66.See above. The problem is that the Jedi were manipulated and put in a 'Catch 22' situation. By the time they'd found out about the true origins of the clone army, it was already too late. They could not simply resign at the final year of the war. They had to win before whatever plan the Sith put in motion was realized. Plus, the clones have proved themselves over the years as valiant and honorable men, who had saved the lives of the Jedi time and time again, they had mutual trust and respect, and neither of the parties knew about their true purpose — which is why it worked.>It eventually comes down to them putting to much stake and or trust in the republic.The Republic trusted the Jedi, and the Jedi trusted the Republic. It was a mutual agreement that'd been in place for over a thousand years. It's called a symbiotic relationship — one of the fundamental principles of Star Wars. The Phantom Menace in particular is all about that.

>>137269312Tom was Tolkien’s cringy donut steel OC that he clumsily wedged into the story and refused to take out

>>137269326Yeah then you could just replace Mace Windu with anyone else from the council. Only special thing about him was the purple lightsaber due to blue + red symbolism and him actively going against the Jedi code of self defense. His characters was the least important part in that aspect.>>137269416>arguing with worldbuilding against fucking Star Wars of all things I do not even need to elaborate on this it writes itself

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>>137269159This really, the Jedi are really powerful but the Clones are also really powerful both individually and en masse. Sure a Jedi is stronger than a clone but a bunch of clones attacking you when you didn't expect it is a death sentence for almost anyone. Not to mention most of the Jedi especially the stronger ones were alone with whole armies of the fuckers. Palpatine did everything he could do dwindle and scatter the Jedi so numbers and surprise would overwhelm them.

>>137269478>Only special thing about him was the purple lightsaber due to blue + red symbolism and him actively going against the Jedi code of self defense.The only reason Mace Windu had a purple lightsaber is because Sam Jackson wanted it.youtube.com/watch?v=0BKLslxaX9EThere is no "Mace Windu tapped into the Dark Side" nonsense in the actual Star Wars. That's the EU. In the Star Wars of George Lucas, none of it was ever mentioned or hinted at in the slightest.

>>137269500Nice, didnt know that. Guess we are lucky he chose purple as his colour to somehow allow people to interpret meaning into things.

>>137268606regular droids were mass produced foddersuper battle droids had strong armor that made them difficult to deal with using blaster rifles, but were other wise clunky and couldn't deal with speedy jedidroidikas were an actual problem for jedi (obi-wan and qui jon run away from just two of them in episode 1)Clone troopers were better shots, more nimble and reactive than droids, and most of the time they simply shot jedi in the back. I think Sidious purposefully had the jedi spread out across the galaxy so the temple would just be low level jedi.

>>137268606Meritocracy ...Any Jedi had to train .... A LOT to achieve that kind o power .That woman on the new disney space movies is passing the wrong idea that if you are a Jedi you can do anything on the next minute without any training .

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>>137268606element of surprised from them trusting the clones, a bunch of them survived which is why Vader and the inquisitor hunt them down.

>>137268793force users can defend themselves against other force users, if this wasn't the case there would be no lightsaber duals and it would just be a contest between who can choke out the other first.

>>137271587It's funny because newer materials have dunked on her.

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>>137269500It was in the novelisation of episode 3, which is the closest the EU comes to canon. Tho despite Mace tapping into the darkside in a way (more so using the dark side of his opponant) I don't think the purple lightsaber is ever said to be connected to it.

I won't pretend I know shit about the control chips that are in the clones heads, but until they received order 66 I assume they had no ill intent towards the Jedi, when they got the order they turned on a dime, the Jedi didn't have time to react to a dog that until mere moments ago was their loyal best friend.

>>137271587God the sequel trilogy could've been actually good with some rewrites. Ditch the destruction of the new Republic, don't bring in any old characters as memberberry shit, and go all in on the fact that these are a bunch of backwards idiots on both sides with the First Order being a bunch of glorified space pirates led by former imperials.

>>137268606Cause Jedi have been power creept for years and while I love Gendies work and starwars series he is the worst example of this.

In episode 2 when they drop in on the geonosians, don't a bunch of jedi die to bugs and droids? Jedi being one man armies was only in secondary works.

>>137271985even withi the film it's inconsistent, a youngling in episode 3 kills a bunch of clone trooper by himself, but in episode 2, a member of the high council gets taken out by Jango sooting at him 3 times while standing still.

>>137271899>he is the worst example of this.not when there is shit like nihilus eating planets

>>137268606>If Jedi are one man armiesVery few were that strong. Windu for instance was in the God Tier of his time.

>>137268867Well, too fucking bad it's the best thing that came outside the movies.

>>137272712Hard disagree.

>>137272758>t. fagleonie

>>137269008>>137269045I’m not sure if it’s canon, but it’s due to some old reformation the Republic went under a thousand years ago that essentially stripped the Jedi of a lot of their own private power and made them subservient to the Republic as it’s peacekeepers. Before it the Jedi had its own military and naval power, military ranks and titles, which was essential when battling the Sith before they went to ground with the Rule of Two, and the Republic feared them as a rival power.

>>137268606The clones were smart and used a montage to do it.

>>137272972lolgenndy's cw is retarded, atrocious, ugly flash cartoon shit, I am sorryvideogames were better, even the comics were better, and TCW was, of course, easily better

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>>137268606First of all, Genndy Wars isn't canon. Second, not all Jedi are that strong, or even close to how strong Mace Windu is."Getting surprise attacked and shot in the back by a dozen of your own troops while simultaneously getting shot from the front by hundreds of droids" is a very effective strategy.

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>>137273278>Second, not all Jedi are that strong, or even close to how strong Mace Windu is.Windu isn't even that particularly strong. His strength is that he's the best swordsman they had at the time.

>>137268606The Jedi were unofficial generals and had no reason to think the Clones would literally simultaneously in an instant turn and shoot them in the back with no hesitation.It was a full on sneak attack assassination that only a few managed to escape from. No matter how weak or strong a unit may be if you have a overwhelming force that keeps coming you will eventually be worn down and that's how the droid army was perceived.

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>>137274398>unofficialWhat do you mean? The clones referred to them by such a title, and the clones were a legitimate military force legitimized by a central governing body, so how is it not an official rank?