Still no Made in Abyss version of Etrian Odyssey but with Berserk tier tragedy

That's exactly what happened in the MiA thread on /a/, and you know what happened? Nothing. The meidos didn't ban anyone or delete anything, and a few saging retards threw a shitfit then left. It definitely belongs more there than here.

Honestly Berserk has been going down hill ever since the second fight with Zodd when Guts meets back with Griffith. Besides the Berserker armor reveal and a few things related to it, I don't see much of a point to continue reading. Casca has been a retard for so long I don't even care if she turns back to normal or not. Farnez was much more fun when she was a psychopath who justified her fetish for burning and torturing people through "cleansing heretics". Serpico might as well not be around most of the time and the kid shouldn't be with the group but a comic relief character that comes and goes every blue moon. The loli is now the new MC and I'm surprised she hasn't had her own magical girl spin-off yet.

Report and filter goons.

KanColle Front Mission would be great.
Oh and you are way too lewd because I know exactly where that crop is from.

I wont say Made in Abyss does the same thing but it does something comparably rustling. Like platinum mad.

This character looks like Dagasi designed it

Also
Ironic

I felt the same way, but I'm currently just wanting to see what happens when Casca is unpotato'd, i'm hoping for an invasion of the fairy island or something dark.

Also fuck puck, he's a little nigger that never gets out of the chest-nut form. I miss him being useful.
polite sage.

I dont want it to happen but we all know its going to happen.

Dagasi's art looks a lot like Akihito Tsukishi's.

pls do not lewd the abominations.

Why has that word been thrown around so much recently? A month ago I didn't see anyone using the term. I'm sure it's already a buzzword at this point because the only consistent context I'm seeing when it's used is for calling out anyone who disagrees with you or is against your views. What does it even mean and why do so many use it now?

I made this a few days ago. Lets see if you know where this is from.
Hint: It's from a "hunting" game.

She got the blessing of the curse my man.

Because it's the catch all term for weeaboos and gaymer gays for anyone they don't like.

Because the cuphead tutorial started people laughing at journos again and the female ones got their SA white knights to come to "hatechan" and try to stir shit up again. Just look at all the (1) and done "games shit you are a fag" posts just to derail and rile people up lately.
Its just the usual suspects hoping for socjus GBP.

...

das it man

Bonedrewd pls go, you are the fucking worst. Shau Tucker was a better father.

I was using it as a classification.
O i am laffin

...

...

Ozen looks tough!

Its like the formula for turning lead into gold

...

she's the nicest

So shes fucking that shota isn't she?

IRREDEEMABLE

she's just a lonely elder and wants someone to dress up

Hes a good boy that dindu nuffin' leaving him alone with a yandere ara type deep below the surface is fucked up. Like he's a naked hanging sacrifice to keep her busy and contained. Someone send in the shota swat to rescue him!

Mark is such a good boy, I sure hope nothing happens to him on his birthday!

...

Chapter 43 when?

How tall is she anyway? I don't think they ever said that.

Reg said she was about 2 meters tall IIRC

there's a really good comparison shot when the group are following her into her den

I would be fine with something like Ico.
The EO games with specific character builds like EOU are pretty disappointing.

I bet you're the type to insist that Gut's name isn't Guts, it's really Gattsu, and Krillin's name isn't Krillin, it's really Kuririn.

Shes a big girl.

If his name was spelled maruku, then maybe, but it's fucking maruruku, so fuck off.

good thing they fixed that shit.

...

I do not know. I only know the thing you posted because it is super lewd and super cute.

Some folks here are forgetting their official flag

nigga what

Goddamn that chest just looks fuzzy

This isn't a coincidence, is it?

All you can expect from a thread like this is animu/manga dumps and shitposting. It belongs on Holla Forums or nowhere, in all honesty.

Oh, that meme website?

Disgusting.

Fuck off autist.

...

I will enjoy my Ro doujins and there's nothing you can do about it

Am I thinking of the wrong Ro?

Whats wrong with sad panda user?

Kemonofags out!

It's literally a one page meme

You're just pretending right?

As expected of your kind

Do you have autism?

The best part is that it doesn't matter what answer I give, you've already decided to be upset about it~

I've given it some thought, and a Made in Abyss game would genuinely be best as a Souls clone. Either that, or a Xenoblade-ish more traditional JRPG. But the similarities to Xenoblade are only in the massive environments, the combat should be difficult with penalties and status conditions for nearly everything.

Is that japanese fluffies or something?

Where do you think we are, goon?

it came long before that MLP shit

did you get banned from the /a/ thread too?

Well it's good to know that the people who use goon are mentally subnormal.

All furries deserve the rope

im amazed anyone stuck around after the whole "tranny mod banning people for saying bad things about tokyo ghoul" debacle. The boards been dogshit for over a year now.

That game does exist, its called Cave story

...

Using "goon" unironically is the easiest way to spot a derailer who isnt from here, i'm glad people are starting to see that

Wait a minute

user, please stop embarrassing yourself. I know it's hard for an autist to recognize emotions, but do try a little harder. Muh sekrit club

well shit

>>Holla Forums
>>>/reddit/
>>>/out/
Or
>>>/delicia/

...

You got proofs? I wouldn't be surprised really

Anything can sound anything else if you truncate it heavily.

Didn't know they copyrighted her
Ok user, you won, I'm clearly from Holla Forums and reddit, guess I'll just leave and hang my head in shame for being found out.

...

Okay, kid. There goes your haphazard argument.

The three main characters in both series are literally a robot boy, a blonde girl with no family, and a rabbit who used to be human before the antagonist turned her into one. Hell, they even kill the rabbit girls best friend in an experiment by dosing her too much and making her a monster. Are you retarded?

feelsgoodman

Looks more like bedroom eyes to me. Even better.

Wow. Similar things happen. I'm shocked.

fucking retards delet this!

A game set in the world of Made In Abyss might be doable but you really can't focus on the shota and loli because that would be one giant shit pile of an escort quest. However, one featuring some no name slowly climbing the ranks to White Whistle might be doable. It would most likely be a survival game with a shitty relic crafting system thought.

Can you teach me the ways of being upset on chinese fingerpainting discussion groups? Ive forgotten how to get mad at posters. Its all shitposting and bait after a point.
MiA was a shit anime with a lackluster plot. I dont know why people jack it off as much as people like OP or others in the thread. Maybe those types of people also thought shit like SnK, OPM or BnHA are good.
12 game overs

You know this user is right one takes place in a hole in the ground while the other takes place in a rock in the sky. It obviously takes several logical leaps to make these two concepts comparable.

Ro draws many things, user.
Though it might be a different Ro. The Ro I'm talking about draws both kemono and regular loli stuff.

I thought you were referring to the character Ro, not the artist.

Got a link to his works?

I see you.

Did we play the same games?

end your life

I dont know how often it must be repeated: MiA out FMA's FMA with a new tier of 'and this is a level beyond ascended super buttmad'.

She was a good girl that wanted to help her papa

You know what I want? A FMA vidya.

Curse of the Crimson Elixir.

fma.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Fullmetal_Alchemist_video_games
I have good news.

You can see me but I don't see a link
Gibsmedat

Sotalarobo was a mistake. Holla Forums looked into a pandoras box western man was never meant to see.
It changed you. Like Holla Forums's own personal Lament Configuration. You came back wrong.

Woah shit. Are any of them good?
There isn't a trigun game that I've never heard of out there, is there?

...

Holy shit, you are right. And you even proved it to be true as well. Cave story is great.

It hurts my hurt.

Thanks sonic.

And youre a nigger who fucks dogs. What's the difference?

Was this meant for me or someone else?

I think you are confusing me for the thing i show distain for. The "Kemonobros" were an infestation but now the majority. Enjoy your monkeys paw situation.

...

...

Made in Abyss is shit though
just cute shotas and lolis exploring.

...

Yeah, it's just about cute kids doing fun things.

Y-yeah. They had fun and everything was fine.

Just fine.

I see that the Jewry runs deep in the minds of anons

N-nani!?

No she's literally an abomination, did you not watch the show? Or are you some kind of furry?

You can find his stuff on sadpanda.

Not sure if you are Holla Forums subversive or a legitimate retard.

Did you not read the manga? bondrewd calls her state a blessing, and it required mitty be sacrificed to attain it.

...

You have to be really autistic to just take everything at face value like this

Bondrewd is a fucking furry
A FUCKING FURRY

Ain't a curse.

It's like you don't even know Bondrewd is a hivemind created from a relic.

Do not smell the rabbit fluff. It ain't right.

Really depends on your perspective.

Maybe you should call them what they are, dogfucking furfaggots. Throwing titles like kemono or yiffsexual are attempts to obfuscate themselves, while trying to play PR and make an acceptable brand of furfaggotry to hide behind when they feel the heat.

Don't post spoilers to MiA btw, thxfamalams

Next you're going to start telling me to call anime cartoons.

CRACK!

Disgusting.

>>>/reddit/ is that way
kemono=furshit=beast=zoo. Stop sexualizing animals

Are you new?

It's Nana from God Eater

Whats the difference? :^)

anime=loli=pedophilia stop sexualizing children.

...

picture = benis = ur a fag

TWIG SLUTS OUT

This. Everyone knows Flamedramon is superior

user?

No. I came just right.

Boy, fursecuting really gets these faggots rustled nowadays. Who actually unironically is attracted to that sorta trash, this is bait, right?
Almost as bad, if not worse, than the trap meme

Good to know you realize you're wrong.

By the Emperor…

She isn't immune. She can just see it. The only party members immune to the curse are Reg and Meinya.

Your goon is showing.
Here, have a kemololi.

Pick one and only one.

Nanachi didn't lose her Humanity.

Kemoshota is better, fight me>>13580276

I bet she smells like honey and lavender.

Fag pls

What argument did you provide? None

Why is the distinction between anime and cartoons okay and the distinction between kemono and furry not?

See how easy this is?

Nanachi can just see where the curse is, but can still be affected by it. She just has the ability to avoid it.

Okay, let us put our autism caps on and do some critical thinking here.

...

Not too bright are you? The comparison you're making would be like music to drawing, those are actually different mediums. Both anime and cartoons are the same medium, animation.

...

Remember when this thread was about a Made in Abyss Dungeon Crawler.

no

Okay, but you still havent told the class why you love furry porn so much. This started with you fags defending furshit and kemono. You are very persistent on proving that this shit is acceptable on here. Do you think it is 'board culture' to be a furry/kemonofag?

I just want a dungeon crawler and i warned them that Holla Forums was kemonotown. BUT THEY DIDN'T LISTEN!

Never made that claim, but nice goalpost shifting.

Look at all my posts in this thread, I haven't condoned them being here once but to say they are the same is incorrect.

No, because it never was. OP is "btw video games :^)" tier.

Reminder that you have shit taste.

Just one question: Is this about Made in abyss Nanachi?
If it is, please open the spoiler. If it isn't, you can open the spoiler but remember its not about you: Go back to >>>/monster/ . You ruin everything you could like because you think a nippon overseas was thinking of adding homosexual furry porn to his anime. Its schizophrenia and you're being a faggot about it.

I think user was taking issue with this faggot which is funny because even he claims to not be a kemonofag.

just like make game then

You're absolutely fucking wrong retard. If we're following that logic than Bugs Bunny and the Loony Toons are fetish shit. Now if it was drawn like porn than you have an answer but just because it's just some drawing of a bunny doesn't mean it's automatically some kind of fetishbait shit.

Mark delete this thread already.

...

THEY ARE EVERYWHERE NOW

ALL FACE ON DICK

he fucking KNEW she'd spit out a white whistle for riko and besides that, he knew thruska wasn't gonna be able to reach the surface or have any friends.
bondrew did nothing wrong, he sacrificed her own daughter

GET OUT OF HERE TUCKER!

...

at the last panel he the eyes of someone who's practically saying

...

i think i might be having an aneurysm

Good I hope you fucking die

...

RUDE.

Well, when youve got fags like posting actual porn and people calline kemonofags 'bros', it really doesnt paint a favorable picture.
inb4 it's a lifestyle
Mark is a kemonofag, idiot

this

Since no one is talking about games anymore, I was wondering what Etrian Odyssey game I should start with. I usually like my RPGs to have good story but I hear the Untold games are kind of shite compared to the main series.

4

The first Untold is fun but it spoils the big 'twist' of the series in the very first mission. If you don't care its Its not a fantasy world its the future and the ancient ruins are Shinjuku The second untold introduced paid dlc that boosted leveling and money gain so it got a bad rep. But untold 1 is usually like £8 on the eshop and totally worth that price, IV is great if you find a store that doesnt do nintendo tax prices and EOV comes out in like 2 and a half weeks and right now its the closest to MiA you can get. Just make your created characters a bunch of lolis and shotas using guns and blunt weapons and go nuts. Its a fun series involving cartography, danger and friendship.

It's the same as when someone posts a cropped porn image and no sauce.

3 or 4 are just fine. Though 5 is coming out in a few days too so you can always just play that. I don't think it will be a problem if you started with 5 as they tweak things for every game.

Well technically isn't V more of a 'pure' EO experience since IV kind of started to lean to the open world meme and thats been removed after nobody liked it?

Play the original 3 in release order. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise.

Well how autistic are you suggesting they get? Are you the user that mapped out all the locations of the trees from the project around the world?

I'll start with 3 then. Thanks anons

Still doesnt make furfaggotry/kemonofaggotry okay or welcome on this board. How is that hard to understand for other anons?

Your autism never ceases to amaze me.

I don't think you understand friend. I am not supporting their perversion of innocent rabbit girls. I am saying these self titled "kemonobros" not only are on Holla Forums they are the MAJORITY and that is horrifying.

4's world map was another take of the sea from EO3. I liked the sea maps because it was a big exploration puzzle as was the map in EO4 but they even had sub dungeons to reward you for exploring. Each having their own FOEs and resources. I enjoyed the map and think it could be better with some more tweaking.

EO1 is a broken mess. Sure the grimore system in EOU1 isn't a good replacement for subclasses, but you also get a new soundtrack with the old one, better balanced classes and skills that work the way they're supposed to.

...

...

He's fishing for (you)s. Just filter an move on. You should have realized this once he started saging 24/7 and dodging questions.

No. If that were the case then the kemono board would be more active. It's just that whenever it gets brought up, people who are like minded always reply. If they were truly that plentiful, we would see way more of that stuff being posted. It's like when people thought Holla Forums had a ton of trap lovers when it just turns out that a few people just kept making trap threads and those few people would come in and circlejerk.

I mean if it was avatarfagging or a porn dump, I could understand

And there is only one way to ensure they have no quarter here: Bullying.

Then don't be a fucking blackpill bitch. Either bully these fags off our board or bend over the barrel for them.

...

...

Do you think there is some sort of true Holla Forums user or something? Like you can only be here if you are certain things?

I guess most of Holla Forums is gay then because /cuteboys/ is higher then /kemono/.

yeah, probably.

There are only a few rules for being an user on Holla Forums from my 13 years browsing imageboards.
coming from a former tripfag. Fuck lanced jack/walter joseph kovacs

That's not how this works. Anyone who posts on Holla Forums is a Holla Forums user.

The things I'm learning about Holla Forums user demographics according to

What's the appeal of MiA? I watched 5 episodes of it and didn't like it. I got no sense of adventure from it at all. I started watching because people said it was basically Etrian Odyssey: The Anime, but most of the adventuring and exploration stuff was squashed into a 60 second montage and the rest of it was character drama and exposition. Was I duped?
I also saw a couple of webms of the "good" parts and it was mostly just lolis screaming in pain and despair. Is that why everyone likes it, because it's dark and gritty? Mature anime for mature otaku such as themselves.
For weeks now I've been trying to understand why everyone I see is singing the praises of this thing and I just don't get it. I think I'm just gonna stick to comfy shows like Patlabor and stop trying to enjoy new things.

try the manga instead, it has the luxury of time and gives a lot more world building than the anime can afford.

Part of the charm if you ask me.

The setting is the best thing about the series. If you don't find the setting interesting it won't click with you. Also this
Manga is much better paced to. Some chapters were stretched into entire episodes in the anime.

wyyyrrrread the manga instead niggs: bato.to/comic/_/comics/made-in-abyss-r16482

There are things such as unspoken agreements between anons. Just posting doesnt make you a member. There are still underageb&, bots, shills, idealogues, etc. coming to Holla Forums and shitting the board up. Would you call a paid shill whose only impetus on this board is to promote some triple ayy trash a member? Would you call a bot who spams word salad into random threads a member? How about that [insert bogeyman here] who only wants to sow seeds of discontent, are they a real member as well? There are things that have been historicslly frowned upon on Holla Forums. And wouldnt you know it? Faggots and furfaggots have been disliked by the majority of active posters on Holla Forums since the start. I remember, at one point, gayposting was bannable.
Did you start browsing imageboards post 2008?

You can be a furfaggot, it just can't be your primary "identity" on how you present yourself on Holla Forums. For example, this thread is pretty badly derailed and it's topical to the current discussion.

But in a thread actually about VIDEOGAMES, such a thing would never be brought up

You cannot stop someone from posting here, anyone who decides to stay is a Holla Forums user. You can't make a criterion for anyone on imageboards, because they are anonymous. Someone could be the biggest pedo, furfag, faggot, goon ever and as long as they didn't let on, no one would know and would accept them as a Holla Forums user.

you can't really derail that which has no rails. This was off topic from the OP.

I agree, fellow membership owner.

Dont forget scylla, the girl that used to be part of a team and then got turned into an undying monster by someone obsessed with science.

But we don't see that much gay material posted. At least not in many of the threads I've been in. We definitely have more /monster/ posters here because there are many games to appeal to them. Also, I've seen more loli material here than /cuteboys/ material as well but that board doesn't have nearly as many posters.

Not when you invest into a build only to realize a move isn't working the way it's supposed to. Then again, EO has always kept the damage multipliers of moves hidden. Leading to people investing in skills that have heavy diminishing return.

loli and /monster/ posters are more prevalent because they are far more accepted in general, so anyone who is one can shout it to the heavens in every thread and no one will really care.

Etrian Odyssey 1 is not a broken mess, it just lacks the polish of the later games. There's this idea being pushed lately that EO1 is unplayable and that's just untrue. Is it as good as any of the other non-remakes? No, but it's still a fine game.

That is the impression I got, maybe I'll give the manga a go.

The only reason it goes on here is because mark is a softhearted closet kemonofag. His mod/vol team is shit as well. If there was a non faggot BO and vol team, youd have two outcomes: first, youd never see it as it would get deleted quickly and the poster banned. Or second, more public bans that bully the furfaggots, to show as a warning to those whod try to be cheeky.
Youre just used to lazy mods. Imageboards werent always this lazy and lax in terms of moderation.

Then why do I always see everyone freaking out about the gay community :^)

You're right. I didn't mean to imply it couldn't be played or was bad.

Also the source material is almost always better than the anime adaption. Especially when it comes to visual novels as anime adaptions can't fit a large fraction of the content they provide.

While true, the people who post that aren't obnoxious. If, for some reason, kemono material became acceptable. Then we would most likely get furry posters who will attract other autists which will just cause a ton of shitposting. I wonder what other boards a majority of Holla Forums posters go to.

/k/ is still pretty mad they got rid of the trigger discipline in shoujo apocalypse adventure/girls last tour's recent anime.

user, believe me when I say that I
NEVER FUCKING EVER
want that to happen.

I'm gonna have to disagree. Loli, maybe, until someone claims it's pedoshit. At that point the thread is doomed as neither side can help themselves. Monstergirls are fine until someone who claims themselves to be from /monster/ shows up, those faggots are incredibly obnoxious and demand the thread be about them and their tastes.

Blame kemonoshit having none autistic/just for a fetish actual Holla Forums related content furshit doesn't.

Oh yeah, I'm well aware of VN adaptaions being shit. There's no way you can condense a 50+ hour novel into 13 episodes, and then there's the issue of how you handle the different routes. It just doesn't work.
I've never watched an anime based on a VN and I never will, at least not without reading the VN first. Now that I think about it, I was dumb to try and watch MiA when it's based on such a long manga. I should have known better.

I can't decipher that shit, please try again.

The only gay stuff I see people freak out about is yuri. Especially hand holding yuri material.

They did? I've been reading the manga so far but I might still watch the show. Hopefully it has a comfy soundtrack like Non Non Biyori.

It always takes one shitposter. I doubt most of the people who say it actually hate lolicons or loli but know it just stirs up shit. As for the /monster/ posters. I haven't really noticed them being faggots myself but I wouldn't put it past them. Some people there can be obnoxious. Like those people who must have everything vanilla and will scream cuck at everyone if there's any deviation from it.

Just dont be that autist who kept on waxing poetic about how self inserting as the bull in NTR is the patrician fetish.

I think he is saying that furries in vidya arent autistic or just for fetish purposes. I disagree, as any of the indieshit furry games are almost all inspired or made to satisfy the creator's fetish.

The reason brogief is so lax is because over-moderation was seen as a negative thing back on 4chan, including more lighthearted, abstract, or otherwise fun thread, culminating in the banning of GamerGate and the exodus to, among other places, Holla Forums. I'm not going to say he's right, but i am going to say i understand why he's such a pussy, aside from being a lazy kike who moderates from his phone while taking a shit, and also there's always >>>/svidya/ for people to populate and, ANY DAY NOW IM SURE, rival and surpass Holla Forums as a place to discuss video games without shitposting or funposting. Hell, they're already halfway there, seeing as how they've cut out posting altogether.

I think he's saying that kemono is more acceptable on Holla Forums than western furry because there are kemono games that are not just autistic fetish fuel, Solatorobo being one of them. It's just a game with anthro characters, not furry wankbait.

oh also this thread has been bumplocked so theres that i guess

Good, it was never vidya.

But gamergayte got co-opted briefly after the exodus, and that lead to the movement being the lobotomized golem it is now. That isnt the primary issue, or reason brogrief doesnt do anything. He doesnt do shit because he comes from safe spaces like neofag, and started on imageboards post-chanology. Do you remember the days in 2007, when there were great threads every day, and even tripfags were funny guys (sans WJK/LJ). The proliferation of imageboards, and the ultimate attraction of underageb& who grew up on faceberg, nu-jewtube, dumblr is what did the site in.

i mean ill be totes honest i only started going on Holla Forums with any regularity probably around 2010 or later; before that id just jump into Holla Forums for le ebin meymeys desu~ Before that i'd just play whatever was suggested to me, whatever i happen upon in my local second-hand video game shop, or whatever looked interesting in whatever video game magazine i had on hand at the time. Hell, i was in the fields playing Firefall for two days, and when i jumped onto Holla Forums they were half-way through making Vivian James so i had to read up on that to figure out what the fuck.

You must be at least 18 years of age to post on this website

user, people born in 98 are 18 now.

And most of those children, and the underageb&, are insufferable. Aside growing up in the dark ages of vidya, they also more than likely are responsible for the recent(past ~2 years) resurgence of furfags/kemonofags

user, I'm willing to bet a least 75% of everyone who uses this website is under the age of 23. That would make them underage at 2007. Unless you truly find almost everyone here insufferable, which you very well mighy, then you are wrong.

Right on the money. I am a specter or an older time, days gone by.
Don't forget, youre here forever

I was a legal adult when i first stumbled onto Holla Forums back in 2006; that adult bit is bullshit anyhow, since i'm older than moot and he was fuckin' jailbait when 4chan started. Hell, i could take this all the way back to when i was a teen and stumbled across a lesbian Sailor Moon chat and they threw me out because i was honest about being a teen. I was wanted to talk about Jupiter titties, god damn it.

I hate how right you are. I've tried to leave, but there remains nowhere else on the internet to go to.

I like to imagine forums in the mynacean period, or during the roman empire, were not unlike imageboards. Im sure there was a wide range of discussion without much care towards greater society's view of thier talks.
This very well could be the highest form of discussion we have experienced in millenia. There is a certain spark early imageboards had that is rare to see nowadays, and it is depressing.

i agree
recently games feel a bit dull in the imagination departament
so a fantastic scenario as made in abyss would be welcome.
also the creator of the series already worked oon a game before so it makes me hopefull

>Came onto Holla Forums around 2006 or 2007 around the same time I made an FA account

Dubs of truth. Also, let us never forget the walls of Pompeii.

...

I've heard and seen that the translations and scans out aren't very good. Is there anywhere I can read a not-shit version of the mango?

Are we literally being raided?

Why can't more JRPGs have creative monsters?

It's really bothered me how often that word came up in the subs I was using. I'm pretty sure it's just a bad translations of something more along the lines of "terrible".

No. Nobody knows how that shit works and anything worth studying the mechanisms of seems to be more valuable to divers as a personal tool or sold for cash.

It's called Wild Arms 2

Why is it that people just sporadically call people furries, instead of calling people that when they act like insufferable little furshitters? Every time an anthropomorphic character is a part of some media or said media is primarily an anthro cast people sperg out about the characters themselves.