Warcraft 2 was released in 1995

Smash & TF2

Diablo was pretty original

haa…..

It's shit. Don't kid yourself.

you forgot your sage :^)
shit reason to dislike a game tbh

Why?

Totally wrong, but Diablo was still fucking great

Diablo was designed as a graphical roguelike and many people disagree with this

Because it's a fucking crutch that slows down the game for really no reason. An army should be as large as the economy that supports it, not by a retarded arbitrary structure count

How the fuck could anyone disagree that Diablo is a graphical roguelike? That's like denying Warcraft is an RTS.

I'm still a bit leery about an RTS that allows you to win with such abysmal map control. I mean, in the video he's basically walling himself in a ceding the rest of the map to Yellow and 1basing it to his end game unit composition (ogre spam). That's not good RTS design.

The structures support the maximum unit count. It's almost as if its an abstraction of the supply chain

What are hitpoints?

I think I found a flaw with that logic, user

Warcraft 2 was awesome. I had no clue why they fucked up the formula and lore in WC3. Probably new diversity hires or some shit.

Then actually put in supply chain mechanics. It's a shit abstraction, if they're trying to emulate that do it right. It's not like the Army can't produce fucking riflemen if a fuel dump gets blown up.

Unless it's a total war game, you're not going to have that much time to build up enough units to cause lag. Even then the whole point is lower graphical fidelity so people CAN have large armies

To be fair, it's tournament meta.
How often is that fun to play when the whole point of it is to win?

Fair enough.
But then those units would have to have a per minute upkeep cost or something.
Food/supply limit is just the simplest way to emulate this.

I guess an Upkeep cost is fine, but even then to me it's just complications for the sake of it.

What do you actually want then?
You say the food system is shit. Fine. Maybe it is.
Do you want players to autistically micromanage their upkeep costs in fast/medium paced games?

In the end, someone is just going to calculate how much you're earning with 1/2/3 resource nodes and figure out how many units you're allowed to pump out while still having a steady income. Meaning you will not have changed much.
To add, it would only encourage gook-tier microing because the person who has fewer units will earn more resources and get upgrades/tech/best units much earlier and stomp the opposition.

Get a load of this human

It's funny because I updated the game and it runs like ass now.
I now sure as hell have more than 128mb of RAM which is what I had when I first played it.

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Warcraft 3 is probably my favourite game of all time and I still play it online. Good to hear that even Warcraft 2 still has players because it means Warcraft 3 will remain active for many years to come.

in the end RTS games have only two outcomes. Gookclick actions per minute trumping any sort of strategy or Tank blob zergfests of who has the most units and no strategy.

I don't really get what the appeal to competitive WC2 is. It always just comes down to bloodlusted ogres unless one player is so much better than the other he can play humans.

I really want to get into WC3 but I hear the hacker problem is absurd. I remember watching a few competitive players to just get a jist of how the games played. If it was ever the dude vs some rando that isn't big in the community it was almost always a hacker.

Not necessarily.
Being able to react faster is always going to be relevant, but you could always figure out ways how to slow things down to make it so APM has less of an effect.
The blobbing is easily countered by having a varied and destructible environment. Six gorillion tanks aren't going to fit into a choke point.

The real issue lies with lack of interest and innovation.
I think Company of Heroes may have been one of the last games to genuinely try something slightly different.

I've never seen any hackers myself, but that's probably because I'm at the bottom of the skill level.
There is a meta, but it's not overbearing like in "competitive esports," so it's easy to get into.

What race, mang?
I'm playing Humans, but I keep getting my ass handed to me so often I'm thinking about switching.

I hate this fucking meme; do people not realize that there is an absurd amount of strategy and depth to Starcraft? Go watch any day9 brood war analysis video to realize this. Every single fucking map unit grid piece is loaded with fucking importance, its not just koreans spamming keys. Go watch any day9 brood war analysis video to realize this

We're not talking about tournaments, but regular play.
A player with higher APM is going to beat one with lower. No contest.
However, when APM is about the same, which is the case in tournaments, strategy wins the day.

Which game??

It's hard to tell if someones map hacking though. In the streams I watched usually the guy playing would be like "There's no way this would be the first camp he would check at this minute" and then a few other things pile up until he's like "Ok yeah, he's got map hacks". They also play on some special server where the chat says something when someone clicks on a unit they have no vision off, which happens on occasion.

Maphacking is pretty much a non-issue imo. I guess the 1.28 patch got rid of some but even if not I haven't really noticed any obvious hackers. Even if you believe it's a horrible problem you can download some detection tools to see if someone is maphacking and even go and play on w3arena instead of on Blizzard's battle.net. That's where all the European pros play anyway while the Chinese and Koreans play on netease.

I'm quite bad player myself and even I get callled a maphacker sometimes by paranoid noobs. Often the people who whine about it are fucking idiots who think every lucky creepjack is a proof of the opponent having a maphack. You can always watch the reply afterwards and judge yourself whether the enemy was using MH or not.

We humans must stick together! I pretty much always beat the orcs but always get rekt by the undead if they play meta instead of trying some cheesy necro strat. I play as human because my strategy is to lose every battle but win the war in the end because the enemy runs out of money. Humans have the best scouting and turtling up potential so all you have to do is to ensure the enemy can't expand while you hide behind your towers and flee or kite the enemy whenever you encounter them. If you get desperate you can always use sorceresses to make ~4 mortars invisible, send them to the enemy expansion/base and wait for the enemy to attack your main army/base and once battle begin just destroy the expansion or main with the mortars while the enemy is too busy microing their army. Most regular players are horrible at macro and often forget to buy TP etc and you should exploit those weaknesses.

If such pussy strategies aren't your thing you should probably play some more aggressive race. Undead if you hate expanding and love to stay on low upkeep and night elf if you want all-around good race. Orc if you want to be dependent on strong blade master. For anything else orcs are shit.

A roguelike needs to be indefinite turn based, or else everything goes into slippery slope territory.

I like the Human aesthetics, so I just can't bring myself to drop them.
I used to play casually with my cousin as a NE a lot, so I guess I could go back to them.

My biggest issue is which heroes to use as a HU.
I seem to either blow the other side away effortlessly or have the same happen to me.
I've had very few matches that I could say were close.

That advice seems pretty sound though.

I'm playing the Frozen Throne campaign and Illidan is kicking my ass with those pillars, how do I git gud?

literally just play it

make some units and press A and left click

Isn't it actually pretty difficult on hard?

Try building towers and luring him into their range.

fucking christ

Mountain King first against Orcs is nice because you can bolt that annoying blade master. Archmage is the weakest hero in the game so in the early game blademaster with boots can just kill it way too easily. MK + bloodmage second is a nice way to counter a BM because you can feed mana to your MK and bully the BM with banish.

Against night elf, don't bother with Mountain King if they go Demon Hunter first. DH will just constantly manaburn your poor dwarf and turn him into a glorified footman. Many people go Arch Mage first, Naga second against nelfs. Frozen arrow gives you some control over the DH harass.

Against human I'll usually go Archmage+MK. You can also get Pala 3rd if you can handle the micro. Against random I go Archmage first too usually because it's usually the safest bet.

Against undead it doesn't matter which hero you make because they'll just coilnova them before you can react anyway and you lose the game so better just give up. Fuck the undead.

Oh and if you find yourself in a situation in which you want a second hero but have a feeling that you don't have the time to creep and level him up (like if you're food stuck and can't get it fast enough), you can always get a Tinker. lvl 1 tinker is surprisingly useful if you just drop the pocket factory before a fight. Tinker is always nice as a 3rd hero too if you really have an urge to get a 3rd hero. This goes for any race.

All right, thanks for the help.
I'll keep all of that in mind.

It's funny because I used to watch some Korean streamer who'd annihilate nearly every UD player he came across with his pala.
He'd keep harassing with holy light and staff of tele, or even go after the DK.
I don't think it was easy, but it looked really good.

Gargoyle rush is very annoying, though.

This mission is one where the AI actually plays like a multiplayer map. Unfortunately the time the mission gives you to build a base is too fucking short, by the time a gold mine is setup you're already attacked at least twice and that liitle bitch Kael hasn't even sent a serious wave yet. I've read I should forgo waiting for the goldmine and immediately use those blight items to setup a graveyard and ziggurats. I'll try that and see how it goes.

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I think the reason why I have so much trouble with the undead is because I suck at micro and the undead is all about focus and and killing your units one by one. Against other races I'm just quick enough to save some units by sending them back to my base once their HP drops low but against the undead with their unholy aura and spells, it's just too much for me.

The blight items are great because they let you make the ziggurats close to the obelisks, so definitely do that.

I should practice someday.

Some guy made a video tutorial about the basic game mechanics. I watched it out of curiosity and got embarrassed for all the stuff I wasn't aware of even though I've been playing this game for over a decade lol.

King of Fighters 98

You've never watched SupCom have you user? I recommend watching one of Gyle's 4v4+ videos, the hour long ones tend to be a bit of a ride.

Where do you guys still play this? Battlenet, Gameranger or some other place? And how painful will it be for a complete amateur to start playing it now?

Nigga you need both if you want to climb to any serious level to begin with
My little brother was writing down notes and strategies when he was playing StarCraft 2 in its early days and he climbed up to diamond when it meant something, and master later on. (Though now it doesn't mean shit; Nu-blizz raped the game after WoL)
Brood War even more so the case. If you have superior strategy but *slightly* inferior APM you can still beat a player who is more mechanically skilled than you
Where APM hurts you most is macro-play
You need to have the basic ability to macro well or you won't progress. Having amazing strategies won't do shit if you don't have the ability to position your units in time or prepare for the timing pushes and so forth. If there's a significant APM difference to begin with then you shouldn't have been matched with the person to begin with. StarCraft requires both sound mind and sound fingers.

Pong

Bomberman

Oh it's a zelda game?

In more demanding games I agree, but there was that guy in SC2 WoL who was diamond/master level with ~80 APM who won only with extreme macro strategies. He would draw every game out to an hour plus by spamming spellcaster units so he had overwhelming resource efficiency.

Whatever happened to plasma pong?

Bullshit. Play Supreme Commander, or any game in its lineage. Total Annihilation came out twenty years ago - it's older than Starcraft.

C&D'd; sorta dropped off the face of the internet as either it stopped being a flavour of the month or as reporters with no sense of anything but the flavour of the month stopped appreciating it.

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I'll check it out, thanks.

I always use bnet.
There is also w3arena, but that's where all top players are.

If you've finished the game, you'll have a basic grasp on things.
My suggestion would be to play it on hard, since it actually does a good job of preparing you for online. Some of the missions can be very demanding and really force you to git gud.

You might also want to watch some replays first, just to get an idea of what the basic meta is like, but beyond that it really comes down to your own skill.
Overall, it's not that hard to get into, but you better have some persistence with you.

That's why modern Blizzard made sure to fire all those people and shut their studio (Blizzard North) down.

That's actually hilarious if its true, but also confusing
Unless you're saying almost all of his army was spellcaster units, in which case I'd just doubt his ability to win, period
Post links to some videos, this honestly sounds entertaining af

It seems to be a universal problem. was W3 connection always this shit, or did they cripple it recently?

Battle.net was pretty solid when Warcraft 3 came out but it was pretty slow sometimes waiting for a game, but now it's peer to peer stuff.

Literally just alt+F4ed from another DCed game, and I'd DCed from another when I wrote that post.
W3 custom maps are still fucking great but this is hitting unplayable levels.

First time I've heard about this.
It might be something with your connection, or the new update could have fucked it up. I haven't played much since it came out.

Goldeneye still has a pretty active community
rankings.the-elite.net/

Motherfugger

I had this problem, I reinstalled war3 from jizzard's new digital installer and it was mostly solved

Pretty sure that is younger than 2000

APM IS strategy.

APM being just hand speed is the real meme that needs to die. Virtually every healthy human being between the ages of 12 and 50 has the hand coordination to be a decent 120+ APM player. There is no magical gook gene that makes them faster at typing or mouse movements. What actually determines APM is game knowledge, planning and strategy. Good players have high APM because they have steps planned out in advance so that they can always being doing something while thinking about the next move. They'll plan their bases so that macro is quicker, they'll hotkey their units and buildings to make micro quicker, they'll understand what their opponents might be doing so they can respond immediately to whatever they see. Bad players waste their potential APM grappling with the UI unable to macro and just sitting around waiting for stuff to happen because they don't have their actions planned out beyond waiting for a bigger army.

I swear to god

literally every game has unit limits

Warcraft 3 has mods that break unit limits. Guess what happens.
The game stutters into oblivion and becomes almost unplayable. Units start walking on 2-3 second stops.
The engine just cannot handle numbers too big.

Every C&C game, RTS just players are just gigantic autists that play games 20 years after a release

It's questionable whether the success of Warcraft 2 to this day is due to a dedicated fanbase or simply turbo autism.

I'd say the two are closely related.

I am afraid we have a heck of a situation down here.

Fair enough.

There wasn't really much competition for a fantasy themed rts back in those days.
Especially one with some polish.

Is there a difference?

...

A dedicated fanbase may make good things, like mods.
See: Medieval 2 Total War. There are some mods that are still in development and are yet to be released.

Turbo autism is mostly useless.
This is where you get speedrunning and analysis of every corner of a game. It can be really entertaining if you're into that sort of thing, though.
See: Mario and Sonic games.

Literally reddit, go away.

Reddit wasn't even a fucking thing when the game was a meme

What game is he referring to?

I think that i'm the only person that still plays Empire Earth

the game

A lot of the "classic" 2004/2005 Holla Forums memes were actually really forced and shitty. This is one of the shittiest.
I really hope it doesn't catch on again.

SubSpace Continuum.

Final Fantasy Tactics (1997)

Active modding community and still getting ports to modern systems

You are not my friend

shit i mean to use a comma in there:

You are not, my friend

fixed

Shoop da Woop IMA FIRIN' MAH LAZER

My Name is Boxxy :3

Counter-Strike and Tetris,

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Half-Life 3 demo leaked

You are now breathing manually.

You are the cancer Johnny.

Does this mean I'm not the worst meme?

You would need to actually be a meme first Poindexter.

List
Age of Empires series
Command & Conquer series
Myth II: Soulblighter
Quake 3 Arena
Unreal Tournament 99
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
Civilization 1 & 2
Heroes of Might & Magic III
Worms: Armageddon
Diablo II
Jazz Jackrabbit 2

I'm sure there are more games.

Paladins weren't a counter to ogres. They were a counter to death knights. Exorcism at full mana = dead dk. It gets even more aggravating if you make your Paladins invisible.

There basically aren't any

I actually still use that as my ringtone.Desu

So, how young are you, kid?

sold

FSX and Falcon 4.0. Flight sims have very solid communities.

Is this what it feels like to be old? First time I've seen posters not know what the game is.

Populous: the Beginning

No man. It was way too early for that shit. They were just fucking around with lore to try to keep the series from becoming stale. It happens a lot in any series. After a while it becomes scary to follow the formula too hard because they're worried it will be seen as just a rehashed, derivative product so they start changing up shit for better or worse to keep it fresh somehow.

Warcraft's lore was never a serious thing anyhow.

For anyone else with this issue, after installing gproxy DLL (different from gproxy++) I always reconnect in 5-10secs from these random DCs.

giga nigger tbh

you're not invalidating his point and you're making a new one for me to point out is also wrong
here is an example of how bloat works

FF8 PC in the past versus FF8 on steam now
In ye olden days the game ran on super low spec 32MB of ram and now it runs on 1 GIG

here are some sits as well

old spec, a better site is currently over loaded
forums.vgrequirements.info/showthread.php?t=975

the official steam page for current spec reference
store.steampowered.com/app/39150/FINAL_FANTASY_VIII/

if you're gonna play it you gotta get your environment set up so it isn't shit or prepare to suck shit

You're damn right I do. I'll continue playing tiberian sun for the next century without ever getting bored

Mein nigger.
I just hope they unfuck the campaing because holy shit, the entire Nod campaing is a glorified commando mission where you may or may not even get a base to do jackshit in.
Or that they nerf Incinerator suicidebombs

I want to play as GloboTech in skirmish.

WC3's always had latency issues, but frequent disconnects and gamesplits sounds like they changed their hosting mechanism and moved to the P2P hosting bandwagon, which is not how it was hosted back in the day. At the very least there should be a bunch of dedicated server hosting (GHost++ being a popular dedicated server tool) for WC3 so I'm not so sure why this is happening.

That would indicate you are getting randomly disconnected from GHost++ dedicated server games, since they're the only ones that support reconnecting like that. Something is desperately wrong with the patched WC3 netcode if shit like this happens.

Age of Empires II does and is actually a great game to watch.

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The Game is how i got introduced to chans so long ago

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Making one good game and fucking up all further releases is a wonderful thing.

It still hurts.

Age of Mythology got fucked over too. They started fiddling with game balance and they made a terrible China expansion. You can tell they have a fucking dogshit retarded team working on the remasters because the original game will still sell.

This kind of lazy remaking needs to end.

Counter-Strike and Super Smash Bros(Can you believe 64 still has a competitive scene?)

In what universe? Its slow as absolute fuck. Its a great game, but it would be a goddamn snoozefest to watch.

faggot