Nintendo 64

On the one hand, anti piracy measures. Cartridges were said to be much harder to replicate unofficially than CDs.
On the other hand, Nintendo really thought that people would have cared about faster load times compared to better or more expansive games, they picked the wrong side of the coin and had to concede sometimes during the Wii's development.

Nintendo's game design faltered on that aspect. So many N64 games had needless and annoying stops which prevented the player from even observing the difference.
Take something like Spyro on PS1 which had 8-9 second long loading times between levels but then you were allowed to play the level with almost no stops.
Compare that to Mario 64, collecting a star had an unskippable cutscene, entering the level itself took you 4-5 seconds as the unskippable or unavoidable animation plays. Mario has a little unskippable cutscene every time you go through a door. Same for Ocarina of Time.

Ironically enough, it was easier to dump carts than it was to copy CDs at the time.

not to mention the amount of text in the zelda games, especially on the N64. There's a time and place for reading, and majora's mask should have been the point they implemented a quick close button for all dialog boxes. I don't even think they have this still.

I appreciate what Nintendo did during the generation, but their successes massively overshadowed their failures that they are still repeating to this day. the Saturn and Playstation blew the fuck out of the N64 and if you have yet to explore those systems yet played all 30 games on the N64, you are ignoring the greatest achievements of the generation.

Yeah it's basically like the videos with kids touching a gameboy screen. The controller was pretty good, just the stick was shit.

I thought that was the Dreamcast.

Barely. Xbox is still more powerful and has more multimedia stuff.

It's fucking shit for FPS controls, the only control scheme that matters.

There's nothing wrong with cartridges. PS1 CD's for most games were wasted on FMV and voice acting anyway. The only downside is they're expensive.

From a consumer/producer standpoint there is a lot wrong with them. The fact that they had a hard storage limit while being expensive meant that they were worse for publishers and developers as they would have to license proprietary compression technology to port their games to the system. Most didn't even bother so the system ended up having a very small library.

I'm sure someone more knowledge could word this better. but I remember hearing that is Japan very out of site out of mind oriented. "if you point out the problem then you are the problem because everything was going fine until you pointed out this problem" Everyone pretends that everything is fine, even if things totally aren't fine.

If there is something wrong and even if everyone knows about it, no one will say anything out of fear of being THAT guy who pointed out how shit their company is doing.

They just needed to cut the FMV, voice acting, and maybe a few music.

The phrase "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down" is Japanese in origin. In America, it's "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". One thing that annoys me about the culture is that finishing your work and leaving early is seen as being lazy, while dragging your ass, fucking around, and staying past your shift is "hard working".

FMVs sold systems, why the fuck would anyone want to cut that?
Its like wanting to chop off your legs to fit in a clown car.

That's the problem with the entirety of Japanese culture. As well as what is essentially Japan's catchphrase at this point, "It can't be helped". It's a culture where 100 people could die to build a bridge, but the bridge was built so who cares? They're all pathetic conformists In the dystopian fiction sense, not the "Look at me, I'm such a rebel!" sense who are all lazy and only act to improve things when the thing is about to collapse and kill tons of people.
I wish SudoStef was still making videos. He had a nice little rant about what's wrong with Japanese work culture

Not having loading times was a nice deal though.

Well, that's exactly whats wrong with consolecucks.

And yet playing old N64 feels awful and borderline unplayable whereas ps1 games are just as charming and playable as they ever were.

The only mistake Nintendo made with the Gamecube was thinking people still cared more about video games than "multimedia devices".

Except PS2 had more games than the gamecube on top of having more functionality.

Not really. Both consoles have their fair share of games that are fun to this day, and their fair share of games that aged like milk. Look at this fucking masterpiece.

It had more games because more people bought it, because they wanted a cheap DVD player.

The only time a pirate would stop pursuing piracy on a particular system, is if the piracy method costs more money than the top 20% of the system's games combined.

It had more launch titles than the gamecube despite being released a year earlier.

This means absolutely nothing unless each console company has inside knowledge about the others' release schedules. The first "next gen" console KNOWS when they're releasing it, and they have a launch lineup ready. Everyone that comes afterwards is merely a reaction to the first releasing, because if they don't also release something, they'll be left behind. Hence, they have less time to organize a lineup of games for it.

The point is by the time the gamecube even got released the PS2 had a steady library and the promise of more to come in the future while Nintendo couldn't even play catch up because of the Gamecube's limited storage capabilities.

Yeah man, those incorrect perspective issues and fluttering textures are so "charming".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_launch_games#PlayStation_2
In terms of games that are actually good, they're pretty evenly matched. Gamecube launch lineup was definitely better in Europe, which Is what I experienced.

Like what?
Most of the EU launch titles are just multiplats that were also on the PS2. By 2002 MGS2 had already been released on the PS2 and FFX was released 20 days after the Gamecube's launch in EU.

Burnout
Cel Damage
Crazy Taxi
Luigi's Mansion
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
Super Monkey Ball
Wave Race: Blue Storm

All good games.

Both Burnout and Crazy Taxi were released on PS2 a year back and Cel Damage was ported to PS2 the same year.
In case of Burnout you'd be fucked if you bought a Gamecube because 3 and Revenge had no gamecube release.
Even in the EU you'd have very little reason to buy a gamecube because the PS2 simply had a better library.

Those games would have come to Gamecube if people had bought the Gamecube though. And people should have bought the Gamecube, because it had better hardware, and four controller ports (imagine).

The Xbox sold almost the same amount as the Gamecube and it still got the later Burnout games.

Fucking 'toddlers, man.

Huh. Talk about bias!.

Having better hardware is always a good thing, yes.

Only if you ignore the fact that normal CDs are superior than manlet discs.

Except the Gamecube had shitty discs which prevented the developers from actually taking advantage of the hardware.

I can't say that ever presented a problem to me.

Isn't that why some games had 2 discs?
Anyway I don't know how they did it, but Melee has a shit-ton of content, how did they fit all of that in the small disc? Even more considering it was a launch title.

How many eShop points are they paying you?

And games that still looked better than what was on PS2. The discs didn't seem to hold it back that much.

You're not the one who has to port games to the system.

And double the cost to manufacture that proprietary piece of shit.
Are you fucking stupid?

What game can you say actually suffered from space issues? Genuinely curious.
Normal CDs are also proprietary anyway, nothing is completely free.
Why the ad hominem?

Timesplitters 2 literally had to remove effects from the game because they couldn't fit them on the gamecube disc.
Consider this your last (you), you've wasted my time with your stupidity enough as it is.

Nah, most multiplats looked better on GC, PS2 was the shittiest of the 3 main 6th gen consoles.
Even Dreamcast was better than PS2 in certain aspects.

PS2 won because of DVD functionality and PS brand, not because it was good hardware.

ps2 versions of games usually took advantage of the programmable qualities of the EE. It's more advanced hardware whereas the GC could handle very basic 3D very quickly, it couldn't do anything else. Any sort of advanced shader effects required developers to have the CPU complete these tasks in software and it's the reason why Burnout 3 and 4 are not on the GC. Couldn't get a frame rate above single digits.

Tell that to Capcom.
We can cherrypick all we want, but the power ranking for 6th gen is objectively Xbox>GC>PS2

...

and 1080i

The fact that Nintendo is led by a bunch of retards.

you're kinda proving the point there. RE4 isn't a very interesting game in terms of rendering. Now look at SH2 on xbox vs ps2. PS2 is the best looking version with excellent lighting effects, 60fps video playback, massive amounts of translucent textures, etc. Things the PS2 could excel at, programmable tasks. Xbox is noticeably uglier and the PC is even worse.

PS2 RE4 is also the worst looking version of the game with much lower polycount and worse textures. Not counting the Zeebo version of course.

PS2 has the best library out of 6th gen, or at least the biggest one. Fine, nobody will argue that.
But you PS2boys can't get away with everything, PS2 does not have the best 6th gen hardware.

PS2's hardware excels in its own ways. guarantee you the GC could make the roundest sphere possible with the best lighting, but PS2 could do motion blur, detail reflection, bloom lighting, HDR in the scene around the sphere although the sphere just won't be super round. The PS2 could even do it in 60fps with FBR.

It made them money. Hasn't Microsoft's XBox division been in the red for like 95% of its life now?

No one wants that.

And the fact that their fans are retards and will eat up whatever shit they push out.

user it's the other way around.
The PS2 excelled at Vertex processing with its Vector Units in the EE and their custom proprietary badly documented microcode but was 1999 tier in everything else, couldn't even do Anisotropic filtering let alone the water effects in Super Mario Sunshine.
The GC/Wii on the other hand had fairly sophisticated fixed-function semi-shaders, and the Xbox had full pixel and vertex shading.

*let alone something like

the best way to play gamecube is with a wii u because you have an hdmi out.

This sort of retro consolewars really gets on my nerves and ruins otherwise fine threads.

I was a huge Nintendo fanboy mostly due to nostalgia and now I hate on them to whoever listens. They refuse to give fans what they want or listen to criticism. Instead they're purely interested in shitting out retarded gimmick games while trying to get you to pay seven dollars for a NES rom. Fuck jewtendo.

...

If they got the 64 dd out at launch, It would have been much better. The other issue was the low ram and very low texture cache that hurt things.

Post YFW you are not Charles Doane.

...

That's an odd custom. You'd figure that getting things done would be the way to go, that is of course they want you to be thorough in your work and make sure everything is just right.

I love Japan but they confuse me sometimes and I know I'm not the only one.

The N64 was the only console for decent ports of FPS games but yeah, the control scheme was less than ideal.

It's the real Doom 3

I liked the controller and it was easy to get used to the 2 normal layouts with center joystick control and d-pad control. I had a friend who used some weird as fuck controller scheme, but everyone has their own way. I do remember the center joystick feeling really good at first, but then quickly going limp and useless.

I had a Playstation growing up but one of my classmates had an N64 and he would invite me over to play Mario 64 and one of the Turok games, going from the Dualshock to that thing felt like you were handicapping yourself and I hated it. That's my entire experience with it, I think I rented one once but my memory is fuzzy tho.

...

That wasnt a port, it was it's own thing.

What would you call it? The Jumbo triple? Three legged monster? The UFO?

Idiot filter or idiot detector

I get it, only an idiot would own one!

I played every game with my left hand on the left part and my thumb reaching way over to the control stick, cus I didn't know any better. So yeah, strange fucking controller.

You're missing
:^)

...

He wasn't the only one.

N64 is a shit meme console that sold well in America thanks to some good marketing. Had it not been for Pokemons success at the same time, Nintendo would've been where Sega is now.

That tends to happen after you use controllers that have a sensible layout.

Nintencuck, there's a difference between a chunk of loading time that leads to a stretch of uninterrupted gameplay, and promising players uninterrupted gameplay but the designers are so high on their Silicon Graphics tech that they need to stop you at random intervals so you can watch the game jerk itself off.

Most of those aren't even ports you stupid nigger.

Very convenient you pick a game designed around the PS2's hardware and that Konami were known to not understand the Xbox hardware while other third parties did.

...

What's that got to do with it? So are SCE.

Every console that sells well is a meme thanks to good marketing though, PS for example.

You would have had to deal with shitty oversized proprietary floppy disc with still shitty capacity.

It had like 50-100MB on average and were probably swappable, it could have really helped them.

Most of the impressive games relied on the carts speed to do shit that wouldn't have otherwise been possible, so yeah you would have had extra space but it would have came with a set of limitations of it's own

Couldn't you make a N64 cartridge -or any cartrige really- with extra memory space? Everything above the base can be as nonstandard as you like, unlike with disks, so you could add an extra layer of chip or fill up the top of the cartridge, right?

The base wasn't standard to begin with, some carts were a lot larger than others but costed a lot more to manufacture at the time. Examplea of large games are Conker or RE2

You could have made any sort of cart capacity yes, but the cost would have been prohibitive for anything above the regular capacity
I don't even know if the N64 could deal with arbitrary cart size but you could probably do some shit using extra hardware inside the cart.
I know the SNES could theoretically deal with up to 4GB roms and likely carts too (that's the limit of data you could have through the expansion port but as the MSU-1 showed you can do pretty much the same shit through the regular cart port).

same thing that compels them to shut down let's plays and fangames
exclusivity
Nintendo wants complete control over their products and IPs wich is why they use these unique formats that nobody else uses
had they gone with regular CDs or DVDs during the N64 and Gamecube era and they would have had to share their shekkels with $ony as they are the ones who developed that tech
It also helps them fight against piracy
the Gmecube was pirated but very late in it's life and i don't think you can get any of those virgin mini DVDs to keep pirating GC games anymore

the reason why they have few games can also be traced back to the formats they use

...

WTF does this mean?

Sony are japs and they kicked the gaming market's ass.

DVDs didn't hurt PS2, they help PS2 dominate the market.

...

That controller was fucking great. Much more comfortable to use than the gamecube controller.

I love the N64 controller but only because I'm left handed, so the weight sits in my dominate hand

Skies of Arcadia Legends
They had to completely fuck over the music just so they could cram everything into a disc barely bigger than a GD-rom.

Cutting all that out makes for a worse game.

No.

Both systems are still just as playable.

Having DVD functionality isn't good hardware?

It was objectively not good hardware. In fact Sony got sued and lost precisely because the DVD player was fucking awful.

Not on Nintendo's watch

PS2's DVD reader is extremely low quality.

impressive how nintendo still didn't learn from this shit and is making the same mistakes.

mad he couldn't watch dvds when he was a kid lol

it's almost as if all games that look great on the ps2, xbox, and even gamecube, are designed around their hardware. like silent hill 2, resident evil 4, and halo 2 you fuck.

...

lol

Not when your DVD drive is designed to break down quickly AFTER the warranty so you have to either give sony more money to fix it, or just buy a new PS2 altogether.

top cum m8

Not supported by the later models which are the most widespread ones

don't be stupid

Not my fault its the only thing Sony was producing.
Also considering the harddrive didn't actually come with the console, its still a massive flaw.

not to mention the N64 cant do 2D. It was so bad developers actually made text and huds using polygons.

very expensive to get a $20 ide hard drive and store 50 games on it that would otherwise cost you $400 on their own, hey at least you can back up load on gamecube easily

oh wait

there's nothing wrong with using flats for 2D, N64 was an adequate polygon cruncher. The issue would be that you're competing with other 2D games at the time which on saturn were effect heavy, on PS1 they were effect heavy and had a far better time pushing out incredible 2D. Saturn so much so that it used its 2D in 3D games frequently to great effect.

Irrelevant. I shouldn't have to pay extra just to compensate for the trash hardware.
Keep your retarded consolewarring in cuckchan. This board has IDs.

...

problem is with the n64 is that it made it so alot of games ended up looking like complete dogshit. it pretty much made it a niche 3D only system. any game with a fixed angle would look terrible compared to psx or even sega saturn.

just look at harvest moon on 64 compared to playstation. hell, n64 couldnt even do 2D as good as an SNES.

that's the point I'm illustrating here too: all those lasers/tracers are just a 2D effect and there's a fucking ton of them. Each little tracer is made up of about a dozen sprites, just scaled and rotated. N64 would have to do that with polygons and then it becomes a matter of:
-there's a fucking lot of them
-they are really fast
-really really fucking fast

not to mention the video output on stock n64's is pure garbage combined with the intense use of texture filtering you get results like HM64 there, where the grass has a notable lack of detail compared to the PS1 grass which is 2D.

The Wii was a fuck-up too. Sales of the console itself were great because it was dirt cheap and had the motion gimmick, but they actually lost money because it had nothing but party games and shovelware.

Also, the GameCube has a shit controller. One of the most uncomfortable controllers I've used. I don't understand how anyone actually uses the thing.

They did? How does that work? They sold 100 million of them, plus their in-house games sold like hotcakes as well.

they didn't lose money on the wii, but it wasn't effectively capitalized on. carnival games capitalized on it better than a lot of nintendo's games did.

What
For which game?
SM64, Starfox 64, Zelda all had 2D HUDs.

welcome to nintendo

My guess would be that they overproduced and had to continue slashing prices just to get it out of warehouses. Sometimes, companies take a loss on selling hardware just so they can sell their software. Either that, or is right and I'm just confusing the Wii and the Wii U again.

The cartridges and the mini-DVDs were meant to stave off piracy, which was eating away profit margins for the competitors because of how piss-easy it was to duplicate CD-ROMs with the right equipment in those days.

With the N64, the lack of a CD drive meant that the console could be produced and sold cheaper and wouldn't break down since it didn't have any moving parts. The GameCube's lack of a full-fledged DVD drive kept its production and sales prices low, too. Both the PS2 and Xbox debuted at $300. The GameCube came out at $200.

Nintendo has always had a philosophy to keep hardware costs low in order to provide a low entry cost for people to play their software, which was supposed to sell the system. In other words, they were trying to cut shit irrelevant to gaming and pass the savings on to you, and gave you good titles to boot.

a ton of mischief makers was static BGs and flats. Kinda proving the point that it can't do 2D.

it was pointless to fight against piracy on n64, and even then, they still had back up loading.

what did he mean by this

it's doing 2D by using a lot of 3D. You don't even need to read the thread, just the last few replies you fuck.

The main gimmick of the 64DD was not the increased size, but rather the fact the discs were partially rewriteable(38 out 64mb according to some old IGN article) and were supposed to work in unison with the faster cartridges.
Combined with Internet access it would've opened up the possibility of downloading patches, extra levels, game demos and user-generated content hacks/homebrew straight to the game disc itself rather than an external storage medium.
Would've been quite an interesting piece of HW had it not been delayed to the eve of the 6th console generation.

The only 3D thing in that boss fight is the platform you're standing on. Everything else is 2D sprites.

It's like you want us to beat some sense into you. No one has ever been able to prove piracy does fuckall to sales except increase them.

Yeah, I sure enjoy playing an inferior product because of ant sized capacity on their medium of choice.

it's called a flat

Whats called a flat?

this is also pretty unproven. piracy does hurt sales but by how much varies on the medium (tv/movie gets hurt indefinitely and noticeably), games it's hard to say (plus lots of games tie services to valid copies), and it being hard to track who's pirating, if they're actually using (ie just seeders or not), etc.

EU literally funded a study to prove it.

did you read it?

And then buried it when it said they couldn't find any relation between piracy and decrease in sales.

and there was no claim of an increase. It's a common sense thing. Do you actually think piracy increases sales?

Piracy didn't exactly do wonders for the PSP's library of games.

what do you mean? It made it the most profitable platform of all time thanks to all the piracy :^)

It was more successful than the Vita

like the vita, psp got most of its sales in japan where piracy is actually acted on by law

Not by a lot. It sold 19 million in Japan while selling 17 million in US and 12 million in EU.

yep, was never a big market

Sure thing rabbi.

Yeah, if only Sony didn't drop it dead just like they did with the Vita.

how many games have you bought after pirating? all of them? several copies of em? I don't buy shit after I pirate, and I pirate tons of games.

That doesn't change the objective fact that Xbox >>> GC > PS2 in terms of horsepower you fuck.

missing the point incredibly hard

You probably still think piracy killed the Dreamcast.

Bull fucking shit. You actually believe the car metaphor didn't you?

Nice non-argument.

If the game was good I do. I bought SWAT 4 on gog despite already beating it. If a game is shit or a game is good bur copies that are in circulation are shit then I pirate.
That's nice of you to project your thieving niggetry on the rest of us.

Single-layer DVD.
Double-layer DVD.

Not to mention you know jack shit, lol.
Same as on playstation actually.

BRUH

What fucked the Dreamcast over was a combination of incompetence, SEGA of Japan fucking over the American branch because they hurt muh Honoru, and the huge wave of distrust that already present from said incompetence, in that situation piracy, at best, was another nail on a coffin that had already been sealed air tight with nails

wrong :^), I buy games when they matter, you bought swat4 off gog way past its point of relevance and thought irrational would notice the 2 dollars in the company account from gog.

sega also having 10 years of bad business practice behind them too which resulted in a massive amount of losses. Hard to survive a global market after 6 years of bad performance.

Technically, modern OpenGL, DirectX, and Vulkan all use polygons for 2D. They use quads with textures projected into the relevant screen coordinates. Nobody blits literal pixels anymore, because it's so fucking slow on modern graphics hardware, and has been for a very long time. Most frameworks for rendering 2D graphics (including SDL and SFML) use textured quads under the surface because it's faster and easier to parallelize.
There were 2D games on the 64 (like Yoshi Story and Mischief Makers) but no developer wanted to be seen as "behind the curve" and 3D games were the new hotness. The 64 did make it harder to develop 2D games because of the pitifully small texture cache (4KiB, divided in half for mipmaps, so you could get a lot more bang for your bucks with semi-detailed textured polygons than full sprites), but it was by no means impossible, and you had way more resources to work with than you had on the SNES, for example. The reason you saw very few 3D games was more a culture and market thing than anything else. PSX had very few real 2D games for the same reason.

You sure act like it is, even stating it can hurt certain industries like (((TV))). Then you brag about pirating shit while projecting that people who pirate don't buy anything. You argue like a genuine fucking kike.

So when they're packed with DRM and are unoptimized pieces of shit. So not only do you pirate but you only buy games when they're usually piles of nigger rigged trash, thus encouraging shit ways to sell to consumers.

I bought it because I really enjoyed the game, and figured if someone out there's going to go through the trouble to keep it alive they deserve at least a buck.

Wasn't around when the PSP launched in 05 and didn't become a gaming platform till 2008.
Considering it sold tens of millions of units world wide and was a dedicated handheld non nintendo device coming after a wave other dedicated handheld non nintendo devices getting beaten into the ground by the Gameboy, yeah it does.

People excel at being this fucking stupid.

its not theft, its piracy, and it does affect those industries financials negatively. You aren't very smart, are you?
you really aren't very smart.

nonsense, I don't buy PC games, I pirate them. That's just basic common sense.

dumbass, just pirate the gog version.

web.archive.org/web/20170922042920/https://www.neowin.net/news/eu-paid-for-then-suppressed-study-that-says-piracy-doesnt-harm-sales
juliareda.eu/2017/09/secret-copyright-infringement-study/

have you read the study?

Pieces of it. It's 300 fucking pages. I read the executive summary and some other choice bits. The main points:

You can find it here if you want: cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf

Then get off your high horse about pirating shit.

BBBBBBUT THEYRE FINANCIALS HOW MANY OF THOSE GAMES DO YOU BUY GOY

You really aren't very smart, as your spic level grammar shows.

glad you agree w/ me thanks for wasting time

PC gaming is for pajeets and BRs, shitskin.

Piracy does not impact all film or TV negatively. It's been shown to impact only blockbuster films negatively. Note the wording. It's only "top films". The study discusses other films, which aren't as heavily impacted because they don't make the majority of their money from opening-weekend viewings. It also discusses television, which is also not negatively impacted. You can read the executive summary, it's only like 7 pages long.

All gaming is for shitskins. White people read literature.

Clearly you would know. Now go back to pirating PC games while making up for it by spending 70 shekels for the cinematic 30 fps collector's edition on your locked down Switch Box 4 Pro.

you sound very insecure about consoles or something, pretty sad

With a standard SNES style layout you can hit any combo of the four face buttons quite easily. Y+A takes some getting used to but it's doable. On a Gamecube controller you can't hit B at the same time as X or Y without hitting A as well, or doing some sort of claw, which is not how the controller is intended to be held, and as such those button combos are essentially off limits to devs. Also having no equivalent to Z on the other side of the controller is just stupid, and the C-stick and especially the D-pad are absolutely shit. And this is after nintendo had so many good D-pads before. But then they already made the (good) d-pad on the N64 practically useless by placing it on a third prong and thus forcing devs to choose between it, or either the joystick or face buttons. So Nintendo must have just figured d-pads are for suckers and put a shitty one on purpose or some other retarded thought process.

You have no more arguments, pretty sad.