Why Modern Class Shooters Are Failing

This guy fuckin' nailed it. The Orange Box was a massive boon to the development of the TF2 community, back when people actually played the game because it was fun, and not because they want to make meme videos on Youtube while trading hats away.

This guy is also right. I don't know a single thing about Overwatch, but I will happily empty my balls to those girls by the gallon, and that helps me remember it exists.

Its all the small things really.
I'll use tf2 as the bigger example since its older and I know it better.

It starts with a direct line to a game people already played in the form of mods, Team Fortress, something that as far as I know was basically made by people looking to have fun with the game. Its rooted directly in gamers having fun and for the most party grew into that trend.
Then its got a distinct style, it not only took what people were sure to like but made it have a unique look. Overwatch did this too, but they did it in a different flavor which I think is more of an ego stroker type of thing.
Then tf2 embraced the community entirely in it's early days, you could mod pretty much everything, the community servers were right there, for a while even the find a match button landed you in community servers, etc. Had a real sense of community and almost exploration as you browsed servers finding weird maps, mods, people, etc. Then you could completely change the look and sound of the game if you wanted, like turning a giant axe into a stop sign.
The actual character designs were strong, unique and it all fit together. All the mercs looked distinct and different, but like they went together and fit in the maps, then the teams were easily distinguished (Maps also did this via the subtle color differences).
The devs had a good sense of humor that made it stand out with it's odd nature, later embraced in gameplay with unconventional weapons for an FPS.

All the little things like this made tf2 stand out and stay good. It was built by people who knew what people liked to play and made it incredibly friendly to modding which tends to increase any game's lifespan.

Overwatch I don't think you can really compare, its a lot younger, has been losing players, and while it has a semi unique art style everything in it looks pretty generic. It doesn't respect it's own community and has really simple gameplay due to every hero needing to be special. Its like Mario Party minigames, each character is fun for a bit, you can get really good, but ultimately they're small and underdeveloped.

Battleborn was more of a MOBA which has a crowd that doesn't mix with FPS that well on a large scale since the playstyles are so different, and Lawbreakers I've yet to play but from what I've seen it's got a bigger problem with the 'Which team is that' issue of not having clearly colored teams. Which is another small thing tf2 did right, even with cosmetics you know whose on whose team even at a distance.

The genre of "class-based shooter" has never been popular in and of itself. Specific games in that genre have been popular, but it's that specific game that is popular, not the genre. Liking one class-based shooter does not co-relate to liking other class-based shooters in the way liking one roguelike co-relates to liking other roguelike games, or liking one RPG co-relates to liking other RPGs. Each game has it's own specific audience that does not like the other games in that genre, and they generally cannot poach each other's audiences. It's like how people that play WoW don't actually like MMORPGs in general, they like WoW specifically.

tl;dr Tf2 was made with fun in mind and the other games weren't, they were made with profit or first (Or in battleborn's case, that became the goal)

Also, they made it waifu-based, so even if you drew porn of the characters it would do shit to help it sink.

By failing you mean making millions?

Multiplayer games are like Highlander, there can be only one. Network effect

But only overwatch has done that.

How come it works with ASSFAGGOTS and MMOs? There are tons and they still make money side by side.

Blizzards marketing for OwOwatch was fantastic, they even went as far as to design a character for every single target group, no matter how shitty that design may be. And then they topped it off with retcon making characters gay and autistic, fucking genius. The best part is, IT WORKED! They made all the money back PLUS a big surplus.

KYS

Overwatch is crazy fun. It's the closest thing to Quake I've played in years.

It was hyperbole. Overwatch and before it TF2 dominated, same with WoW. There's not literally only one profitable game in each genre.

atleastbaitthehook.jpg

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KYS

Let's not forget how the MMR is getting worse thanks to several factors including trolls and smurfs, and of course, Blizzard's insistence in putting feelings before skill (AKA, the 50% win ratio rules.)

Embedding isn't working so here's a link to a video you should watch if you want to see how Blizzard is fumbling the esports side of OW.
youtube.com/watch?v=X7EV4m89CPA

I don't think this necessarily helped TF2 and OW as much as it hamstrung NoTakers and Stillborn. The characters in the latter two games look like unfinished character sketches and the details of their character designs tell you literally nothing about them. Is the guy with the suit on the left supposed to be suave or stylish? Then why does his hair look like grease and why are his eyes baggy? Why does the fucking battle medic look like Master Chief circa Halo 4? What the fuck is the difference between a titan and a juggernaut, exactly? It's awful.

I'm still puzzled as to why Roadhog's gas mask filters don't look like boar tusks. I'm a sucker for animal motifs, but even so, that's such a missed opportunity.

Probably the biggest factor, combined with the oversaturation of the market: people who play OW don't want to play some shitty new game because they've already invested so much time into OW. As other anons have said, there are plenty of GO FAST shooters with their own dedicated communities, so a new game that waters down the traditional arena shooter gameplay isn't wanted either.

As much as I hate OW's designs for being creatively bankrupt, they are at least competent and distinct. NoTakers characters all look the same, and the less said about Stillborn's characters the better. The characters in that game who don't look like godawful aliens look deformed.

I think Blizzard poured marketing money into OW to recoup the dev costs of Project Titan and it worked because people are goddamn cattle. Even people/streamers I've seen who were ecstatic for this game upon its release are cool on it now, to say nothing of the marginally skilled more players who found the busted characters early on and abused them for months/wondered when or if a counter would ever be developed.

Overwatch succeeded by removing and adding things that TF2 failed to do.
Gender politics, incredibly low skill ceiling + impressively short time it takes to get a kill, endless pandering, Easy to cosplay/whore out Waifus and removing the need to ever turn around aka no spy class.

The only other class based games I enjoyed as much as TF2 were Killzone 2 and Bad Company 2.

I'm honestly convinced Holla Forums is full of hipsters. Overwatch is fun - vidrelated. Every player in the game has a real ability to win the round for their team almost singlehandedly, and it does a very good job of promoting teamwork at the same time.

Nigger fuck off, that is the thing I hate most about it. You have almost no control of the match, your input barely matters unless it's an ult.

What was fun about that have you never airblasted someone before? And what was that annoying voice in the background holy fuck

I hate that part about their matchmaking the most. The idea that if I log-in and get a win streak today, that the matchmaking is going to give me a losing streak tomorrow is fucking bullshit.

i think that tf2 & ow both succeed by having characters that are simple both in design and concept. someone who's never played either game can look at a character for a couple seconds and immediately understand what they are.
i still couldn't explain to you what any of the characters in the other two games are supposed to be.

Confirmed for silver scrub

I got a 3K with a boop as a support class, it's pretty fucking satisfying and happens rather rarely.

The voiceline is the bind I got on my jump key to tilt the enemy team into oblivion.

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because you had two other ults propping you up retard.

It's unlisted, you literal fucking autist.

ssssh it's satisfying nevertheless

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One thing I noticed about these videos And god fuck my youtube is now going to be flooded with OW recommendations is that nothing seems to have any impact. With the Hanzo gameplay you see him retact the bow and then the arrow has vanished into the visual clusterfuck. For Lucio his arms barely react to the weapon firing, even when he does the special that knocks people flying he seems to not really react to it.

Take TF2 and the Huntsman, the bow retracts based on the power of the shot and then you still get the arrow trail to show that indeed you shot something. That could be seen as unfair since Hanzo is designed to spam arrows repeatedly whereas the huntsman is only meant to be a one-shot kill, so lets compare the two to the pistol.
When you fire the pistol on TF2, there's enough visual recoil to show that you are indeed shooting, in addition you get the little "Spark" I'm not /k/ so don't know the term that shows the direction the shot went in. Everything OW just seems like a visual clusterfuck.

Hanzo's arrows have very distinct trails. Lucio's weapon is sound-based so it makes sense intuitively that it doesn't have too much knockback.

People would say that's how you are supposed to get better, but in OW is not just about matching you against better players, it literally puts you and maybe one or two others on a team with overall lower skill compared to the other team, in competitive is almost the same, time and time again people saying platinums/diamonds get paired against masters and grand masters.

Never happened to me.

Those too statements are in compatible.

The way I see it, Overwatch is basically TF2 for Mario Kart fans.

your opinion is discarded because you clearly don't know what skill rankings are. It's not for sport, it's for tryharding andf feeling good when you beat an enemy roughly equal to you in skill.

OW's player activity is spike based, tied specifically to every event that adds flashy new skins to sucker people into playing and spending money for gambling on those new skins. Once they get em, they realize the game is still shit even with their fancy fetish Mercy or super weeaboo Genji skins and quit. Why the fuck do you think they do so many "HEY GUYS, FREE WEEKEND!" promos?

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I can agree with you. Overwatch is a lot faster paced; although that doesn't mean it's any more difficult. Actually, it means that it takes even less skill than a game like TF2 which, while it is quite fast paced, you'll be able to do a lot more by taking it slowly and strategically. Storming a base in TF2 with your entire team will take a lot longer and probably across several respawns. In Overwatch, pushing the payload to the final point only requires one or two assault-based classes on the attacking team to use their ultimate abilities to instantly one-hit kill, or trivialize killing, winning them the game.

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Skill rankings? oh, you mean those that are based solely on a certain hero's gimmick and nothing else? like how you can be an excellent healer but if you don't do that one thing you are supposed to do you get screwed? like how until tomorrow Mercy had no value unless she did multiple resurrections and how it made her climb up in ranks even with a negative win ratio?

OW's designs are strong individually, but they don't fit together into a full cast as well as TF2's.
When you look at TF2's cast, they all have the unifying aesthetic of Cold War-era military guys
Compare this to OW, where you have Roadhog and Junkrat who got blown in from Mad Max standing next to arctic adventurer Mei and the more cyberpunk-esque Dva and Widowmaker, while WoW dwarf Torb does his thing on the opposite side from WoW raid boss Reinhardt, who is standing next to future shooty guy Soldier 76 and Lucio the JSR reject.

There's also how TF2 classes all have the same color scheme. What's brown and orange on RED is navy and yellow on BLU, while a team in Overwatch is a rainbow

My point is, at the end of the day the OW character designers made the protagonists/antagonists of at least 15 different games, while TF2's made 1 faction for their game.

OW is the Mario Party of FPS. The problem is, casuals get bored of these quickly and move to the next. Seems like PUBG is the new one.

You're sort of getting it.

I'm gonna put TF2 aside to start, even though it's definitely relevant to the discussion, simply because it'd take another full post just to break it all down. There are just too many factors to really delve into why TF2 was (and still is) a successful title, not to mention other people have already done that countless times over its decade-long existence. Simply put, it's just on a totally separate level as compared to Overwatch/Battleborn/Lawbreakers.

The more important questions here are definitely:
- "Why did Overwatch succeed",
- "Why did Battleborn fail", and
- "Why was Lawbreakers DoA".
All of these questions have answers that link them together, but they also have important separating factors that make each one a unique case.

Let's start with Overwatch, and let's talk about Blizzard. Blizzard, for all its faults, is a company that is still 100% capable of designing coherent games. I want to put emphasis on the word "coherent", because even though Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, nearly every expansion of WoW, Hearthstone, and Heroes of the Storm are all horribly flawed in their own special ways, each one is still a completely playable and even enjoyable game (especially if you *don't* know anything about Blizzard games, or if you have no taste [playful jibe]). People say that "Blizzdrones will eat anything Blizzard shits out", but the reality is that Blizzard's "shit" still tends to be some amount better than most dev's "best effort".

So, why did Overwatch succeed? Put simply, it was the first *truly* new IP from a veteran game company, which was constructed with purpose and focus (coherent), marketed properly, patched actively, and most importantly, had ripped its entire design and premise from an already hugely successful game. In fact, the amount of ripping-off that Overwatch employs in regards to TF2 is almost shocking, and not just in the sense that both are multiplayer class-based team shooters. Blizzard copied not only the gameplay and design, but also the entire framework of what made TF2 itself unique: the character videos, the overarching plotlines, the holiday events, the webcomics, even the cross-promotional items. The only things I can think of that *weren't* copied from TF2 were the community generated content and non-holiday themed updates.

Overwatch doesn't really come close to truly recreating what made TF2 great, but it's a near-enough approximation that it can attract both people that never played TF2 (the ignorant), as well as former TF2 players that wish to play anything that feels like TF2 but isn't (the jaded). It's also *just* different and streamlined enough that it can stand on its own as a true competitor to the decade-old powerhouse (again, coherency as a game is key here). That, combined with all the other minor points mentioned above, is the rough idea of why Overwatch is a success.

With that, let's move on to Nancy Bitchford's abomination, Stillborn

I smell siiiilver

kill yourself

not an argument

Blizzard have been making games exclusively for casuals for the past few years. The casuals and younger children have been their prime target.
You have to really have issues to deny this. Some people just can't let go of blizzard's own fame, others like the polish and never expriment. But they are always shitters.

I fucking love full-bore autistic takedowns like this.
Keep going.

How about since the beginning? All of their games streamline and casualize the genre so that normalfags can play.

To my mind TF2 and Overwatch and it's offspring are different beasts in terms of gameplay.
TF2 now is a lot more similar to Overwatch than it used to be, but on release it pretty firmly rooted in classic FPS design philosophy, and by that I mean focused on movement and aiming guns that shoot projectiles or hitscan. Aside from the colourful characters, it was not all too different from other class-based shooters.
Overwatch is the bastard child of TF2 and ASSFAGGOTS, putting less of an emphasis on the elements of classic FPS design in favour of elements like active abilities and generally one weapon per character. Instead of offering one character that fills one specific role and a kit suited to that role, it makes the player roles much more vague and offers hero characters that fit the role in a more broad sense. Instead of having a multitude of weapons to use in different situations, most of the time you have one weapon which serves the same purpose as an RTS unit's right click, and instead have abilities to use. Movement is less important because you're given specific mobility abilities, so it becomes more about timing and strategic positioning.
TF2 definitely provided inspiration for Overwatch's design, but it was only one area of inspiration and every other game in the CRAPCUNTS genre follows Overwatch itself, not TF2. TF2 is the product of a different design mentality to the CRAPCUNTS. It's meant to be an FPS. CRAPCUNTS are essentially playing to the same crowd of people who like ASSFAGGOTS design.

As for the success/failure, I think it's quite simple. Overwatch had a massive viral marketing campaign, with Blizzard using every trick in the big book of marketing to ensure this would become the game to play and they succeeded because Blizzard knows how to peddle their wares. It's what everyone is talking about, it's what all your friends are playing, it's what the (((pros))) are playing, and it's by a big-name developer. You have to play it.
The reason its clones fail is because they're playing catch-up, trying to capture an audience that isn't there anymore, because Overwatch cornered the market. It's why hardly any ASSFAGGOTS are as successful as League or Dota, it's why hardly any console FPS is as successful as CoD. These normalfag water cooler games only work because everyone is playing the same one, and once a few take hold in the market they can't be dethroned. Gameplay, character design, lore; all of these are at best minor elements of what people play these games for. The big reason is because everyone else is playing them.

Class shooters were never a genre until two or three years ago.
For ages it was just TF2, then out of nowhere there was a barrage of samey shit.

As with the last post, before I talk about Battleborn, I want to talk about Gearbox Software.

Gearbox was a small company that formed out of Valve's armpit back in ye olden videogame tymes. It started out by making expansions for Half-Life, moved on to create a mediocre-but-acceptable shooter series in Brothers in Arms, and then ended up with a smash success out of Borderlands. Similar to Overwatch, Borderlands succeeded primarily because it was a competent game that was marketed well, had mass appeal, and was partially built around stolen design and art direction. Dissimilar to Blizzard however, I believe Gearbox was more lucky than they were smart about their approach in game development. The releases of Duke Nukem Forever and Alien Colonial Marines are great examples of how foolhardy the company can be when it comes to their IPs, and while Borderlands 2 did manage to be a success, it was mostly on the namesake alone (in my opinion, anyway). Gearbox does not have the attention to detail and industry awareness to craft a successful game with intent, only enough to craft mediocre games that have an outside chance of being hits.

So, why did Battleborn fail? The 100-or-so fans of the game really love to point to Overwatch and Blizzard and proclaim that they were the biggest, if not the only, reason that the game flopped. "The games released at the same time!", they shout, "Every time Battleborn had a free weekend, so did Blizzard! It was clearly a targeted attack to keep Battleborn from succeeding!" (These are real arguments that I have encountered from real actual people). The reality is that it wouldn't have mattered if Battleborn released 6 months before Overwatch, 6 months after Overwatch, or in the middle of winter of 2010. Battleborn failed because Battleborn is a completely incomprehensible game from top to bottom, with very little meaningful incentive to keep playing beyond the first few hours. Now, I know that's a pretty sweeping statement, so I'm gonna unpack it just a bit before moving on.

First, what makes Battleborn incomprehensible? For starters, the game has two *entirely* separate game modes that it attempts to balance with the *same* roster of characters. On the one hand, you have this PvE experience that's supposed to be somewhat akin to a campaign mode that you grind through with friends, a-la Borderlands, and on the other you have this PvP mode that's supposed to be something like Monday Night Combat. Gearbox tried to flesh out *both* of these modes to be entirely complete experiences on release, across like fucking 25 different characters. 25 FUCKING CHARACTERS! There is no humanly-possible way to have 25 different playable characters that are all unique in gameplay *and* strategically satisfying to play *and* work perfectly in two entirely different types of games–it just can't be done!

This alone would break pretty much any game, but this isn't the only problem with Battleborn. Not only was the game flawed in its approach to basic gameplay, but it tried to mask this flaw by piling on multiple layers of completely unnecessary bullshit to try and convince the player that they were getting some kind of value out of continuing to invest time into a game that is already not worth investing time in. You have your your unlockable levels, your unlockable characters each with their own unlockable bios, unlockable skins and voice lines, unlockable character abilities and talent trees, unlockable character upgrades, randomized equippable loot, two different kinds of in-match currency where you can activate your unlocked abilities and equipped loot or unlock in-match upgrades and turrets… It just keeps going on and fucking on. This creates a nearly impassable wall of game knowledge that isn't dissimilar to the knowledge barrier presented by something like DotA, except that you don't really gain anything of value once you've gotten past that wall of knowledge, just minor stat boosts and bad Gearbox writing.

All of this, combined with a poor timing of release, a refusal to go free-to-play in spite of being clearly built around a free-to-play model, bad marketing, slow patches, and horrible social media handling mix together to create a stillbirth, and that stillbirth is named Randy Pitchford.

I mean Battleborn.

Okay, on to Lawbreakers!

What is battlefield then?

OG Star Wars Battlefront I and II are class based shooters, had lots of fun in those games.

Anyone who sits down and tries to do a hero based shooter today is just as retarded as all the faggots who tried to jump on the MMO train after WoW or ASSFAGGOTS train after LoL. Dumb shits obviously have no sense of the market. How many games were dubbed "WoW-killers"? I guess it's no surprise history is repeating itself though, since the games industry is filled with MUH LIBRULS and they have zero fucking sense of history.

Why does everything boil down to politics with around these parts? It's like libcucks killed your family or something.

This is bait, isn't it?
It has to be fucking bait, right?

But it's true. It's really one of the hallmarks of the left, all over the world, to constantly ignore history or revise it to their own likings. Same thing goes here, these developers are obviously not aware of the millions of dollars that were poured into failed attempts at dethroning the reigning champion within a specific genre.

etc etc etc repeat forever and ever

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Good post. Your point about balancing 25 classes for different game modes is especially on-point since 1) I didn't know Stillborn had two game modes, and 2) even something like Titanfall 2, which has pretty solid multiplayer design overall, had to give the titans each completely new progression systems and upgrade all their abilities several times over to compete with the bullshit the PvE mode throws at the players. It's even more telling how difficult this is since the PvE mode released the better part of a year after the game itself; Respawn had plenty of time to balance it and think about this problem, which is impressive given how finely they tune the numbers on each gun and titan.

Looking forward to your next post.

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I don't like leftists. I think they're holier-than-thou idiots treading around nihilistic justifications for their idiocy without realizing that just one more step in that direction would collapse all their reasoning since nihilism/hedonism would pull the rug directly from under their morally masturbatory bullshit. I also don't like right wingers because they're very often boring moralist faggots as well. Alt-right are better in this but they've got the same issue as the leftists. The closer you tread to science in your politics the sooner science starts triggering cultural decay due to logic sucking all life out of the human values and morality. It starts feeling silly at some point.

Politics are pointless. You're all just apes in shoes, myself included so stop caring so much about what's gonna happen and start focusing on yourself, self-improvement and self-gain. We're all gonna die so what the fuck do you care what direction politics go?

It's all cyclical anyhow.

Asses and eggoes? Is that you, my nigger?

The thing about Lawbreakers is that I don't actually have much to say about Lawbreakers. It's the only game that I have yet to play in this discussion, so I can't really give my personal impression beyond saying that I think the game *looks* really good. And I mean that genuinely, I think the game looks like a really solid shooter with really solid gameplay. I have to assume then that the problem *isn't* the game itself, but rather the other things surrounding the game.

It's pretty obvious that the market for multiplayer class-based shooters is getting a bit overloaded, especially if you mix that together with the very similar MOBA genre. It takes a lot more than just being a good game to succeed in the market at this point (I mean look at Dawngate, that game flopped before it even left beta, even though it was provably better than League of Legends or any other clone around). You have to have laser-precise marketing, an extremely nuanced approach to pricing and valuation in your customer base, and a willingness to adapt very rapidly to the environment around you.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually think that Lawbreakers has quite yet failed completely. I think with the right approach, the game could be salvageable, but it's going to require that ol' Cliffy starts humbling the fuck up and makes some sacrifices to make the game succeed.

I actually gotta go play some vidya, so I might come back to this with more later. Tootles

He just put the cart before the horse.
One of the integral components of the modern shitlib is lacking basic knowledge of history, after all.

Humbling oneself and making needed sacrifices. The old catch 22 most of the time. If someone was the kind of person to make the sacrifices, to humble oneself, they likely wouldn't have fallen to hubris in the first place.

Not saying it isn't impossible, but while we're just talking videogames here, this is road to damascus type change in actions and motives here we're talking about.

For Lawbreakers to succeed, Cliffy would need to uncuck himself. The moneyman breathing down his neck won't be enough of a push.

I actually played a decent amount of LawBreakers in the beta/alpha. It's a decently enjoyable game, as in, it's somewhat worse Titanfall 2, with some really interesting classes, mainly the Gunslinger and the human A-10 class. But, the game is absolute dogshit from a visual design standpoint. All of the characters minus the yakuza gook and the breakers gunslinger are ugly as sin.

The game is fun to play, but the characters are offensively ugly. I'm not talking about bad graphics, I'm talking about characters being intentionally designed to be so ugly, they make you sick.

Did any Epic game ever have graphics that reads well? I think CliffyB and Lawbreakers are a product of a studio (they're mostly trash coming out of Epic right?) that is pretty shitty at making readable art.

I've got no idea who that is.

History teaches only that struggle is futile and shit will constantly change no matter what. People in large groups are just biomass that does and believes what it's told. Eventually, it all swings back and we're back to the perceived "normal" - whatever that is to you. For most of us here that normality was a dozen or so years ago. For libcucks the normality is now. Eventually they'll creep right back under the rug, and eventually still, they'll come back.

That's why it hurts me so fucking bad when I see Holla Forumsacks and Tumblr alike mindlessly pushing their agenda. It's not that I think it's harmful, I just think it's fucking pointless. Live your own fucking life and stop caring so much about everyone else.

Fight for your own future, and the way you're going to survive for the rest of your life, not the future of everyone else - 99% of people around you will live and die as useless sacks of worthless shit anyway. It's all just biomass.

Why should I listen to the words of a self-professed ape? Get gone from this place animal. Go screech and molest trees elsewhere.

The wheel is not even broken, there is no wheel.

What a edgy fucking faggot.

Wasn't made by ebin gaymes.
Was made by Cucky B's own new studio. BossKey productions or some dumb shit.
But, I feel Ebin has been getting better on that front.

You're an animal as much as anyone else, and your denial of that is pathetic. You shit, you eat, you reproduce and then you die. And you're dead forever.

You don't matter, so stop acting like you're any different than your dog, apart from some evolutionary advantages. The sooner you drop that pathetic fucking ego, the sooner you'll realize how laughable it is.

A edgy faggot indeed.

I know but it follows the same visual philosophy that Epic has been doing the last decade or so. You start modeling a character and then you never, ever stop. Which makes me think most of the people working for CuckyB are ex-Epic.

I love seeing people try to act all intellectual on a fucking video game board.
Oh yeah, buddy. All those virgin Overwatch players are really gonna respect you now.

I'm gonna disagree with you based on my time with the open beta. the gravity gimmick immediately wipes half the classes off the board because they can't keep up with the gunslinger/assassin/whatever once they leave base. If you didn't have some sort of dash move you were good as dead upon entering the middle of the map. As for maps they were just too damn small, the harrier class seemed like a fun idea but you hit the after burner and you'd fly at mach speed into a wall because once you leave the no-gravity zone its just hallways. The designs are awful everyone knows that, but it also makes knowing what the fuck is going on on the battlefield because all the characters look the same and half of them are phasing in and out of existence while screaming one liners. which is tied into cliffys "epic" attitude to everything so the game is just constantly throwing attitude at you that was out of date 20 years ago.

the game would need to be razed and rebuilt from the ground up to work properly let alone compete with other shooters on the market right now

If this is intellectual to you then you're a fucking retard. I just said that there's no point giving a fuck about politics here you are aping out about how complex of a fucking revelation that is.

b-but muh reddit-level understanding of philosophy

What drives people to do it? They always make an ass of themselves but never realize it.
It's like seeing people in the comments section of a YouTube video talk about atheism in a high and mighty way then get butthurt whenever they're asked how old they are.

Maybe it's got to do with microtransactions? I mean, they introduce a grind into what should be a simple fucking shooter as a means to milk the most cash out of players who want to buy an edge to supplement their lack of skill. This introduces a sense of investment… you're building a character, or a profile of worthless shit. That's going to make it less likely that the average player is going to abandon that investment to go play another game where you have to start from scratch.

So it becomes harder for newer games to compete with established games, and once a game does manage to break into the market, they're much more likely to make it a sustained success.

I'm just going to note the hypocrisy of this post coming from an Overwatch shill

When did I ever shill for it? I just said it's not that bad. If any positive remarks about things you dislike equals shillery to you, then you're retarded.

His complaint is that they're not fun to look at, but you did cut into one of the central issues to Lawlbreakers: poor visual class differentiation.
Look at the TF2 silhouettes in OP; Scout and Pyro, while approximately as skinny as each other, have a few key differences: Pyro has a gas cylinder backpack that stands straight, and his/her/its mask leaves the bottom half of the head with a wider profile, while Scout's bag is non-metallic and hangs at an angle, and his hat widens the top half of his head profile.
Compare this to the enforcer and battle medic in OP's Lawbreakers image, and the reason for Lawbreakers' ailments becomes much clearer.

As other people have stated, the characters in overwatch are a reason for its success. There is a character for nearly every type of person, from the CoD fags to MMO tanks. None of the designs except Zarya's hair are offensive, so everybody will see a character and think "I want to play that guy"

The game also gives characters very shallow personalities with the illusion of depth by having characters interact during set up time. You can accurately sum up almost every character in two words or less, both in personality and design, but because of the illusion of depth, it leads to places like tumblr creating comics about these "characters" and making a great deal of fanfics. Blizzard is basically letting the fans write their characters for them by giving a basic sketch of the character personality, which is why they cancelled that one comic because it broke "fancanon". This spreads the game even more by giving the impression that the characters are deep when they're basically whatever you want

That and the games low quality waifus keep the game in a lot of peoples head while they're masturbating. The games going to suffer TF2 tier problems though with all the skins they're releasing that change a characters look drastically, as they are basically required to keep making them more and more ridiculous

This is probably true, I guess I just like to *hope* that Lawbreakers will eventually turn around rather than *believe* that it will turn around. I think there is a core of gameplay there that's worth salvaging, but only time will tell if anything actually gets salvaged.

A lot of these sound like balance issues that could be fixed with updates, but since I haven't played I'd have to reserve judgement.

Clear silhouette design is another thing that I'm pretty sure the Overwatch team was inspired to thanks to TF2 (which they still didn't get quite right, but whatever, close enough). It's vitally important to games like these, so if Lawbreakers fails at it, that would definitely be a contributing factor.

Thanks dude. That's really the crux of the issue, the design team for Battleborn couldn't make up their mind on if they wanted the game to be PvE on launch or PvP on launch and ended up with a disaster for both.

Interesting to see the vast majority of people on my friends list drop Overwatch, maybe 2/40 even play it anymore, maybe all that lesbian/shitskin/cripple,muh autism pandering really isn't as worthwhile as making a actually good game.
Meanwhile several of them have gone back to TF2 and stuck with it for the first time in years after seeing the shitshow OW has become.

Don't forget punishing players if one of their teammates is a retarded sombra player or ragequits
Atleast paladins gives you a bot, overwatch, yeah fuck you enjoy your forced loss because pedro had a tantrum

They were even inspired to start fucking with those silhouettes with the alt costumes like TF2 did with cosmetics. One more 'inspiration' to add to the pile.

Modern class shooters are failing for the same reason competitive TF2 is failing (Bar Money Laundered)
Format is shit for actual teamwork and classes literally don't matter bar having the designated healing bitch.

Holy fuck the overwatch shilling autist has outted himself. He also plays Rust what a fucking surprise

Except TF2 sillouettes have not been compromised with any combination of cosmetics.
Unless you're going to actually tell me you believe this is actually a heavy.

He's got a fucking reddit account, this is priceless

does r6 siege count as a class/hero shooter. it seems like it should but is always left out of these discussions

How embarrassing.

As if we needed any more confirmation that he was a fucking faggot.

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Clearly a Spy.

And this is why you scrub anything before you post it anywhere.

Hahaha holy fucking shit. I don't even have a image powerful enough to express my disgust.

Oh my fuck.
This is too good.
MODS, PERMABAN THIS FAGGOT

It's beautiful.

With regards to TF2 and Overwatch, I feel it would be worth looking at how both games are managed. Namely, TF2's original dedicated server structure and server browsers, and Overwatch's competitive 6v6 matchmaking. With this change, developers have also moved from simply stopping players from cheating to combating "player toxicity".

We've even got the unique situation of TF2 switching from its original system to the modern one, and we're able to see what effects it has on the game as a whole.

Because they're all trash.

i wonder what his hivemind would think of his problematic use of the word faggot and retard

He could explain it away as part of his shilling 'job'.

same

I dunno man for every dickable girl from one of those shitty games there's 300 300x better touhou doujins or a hentai video with sound effects someone made with their mouth.

to each to his own, hitler dubs. i just save way too much porn for my own good.

Yeah I fucking wish I was paid to post things on the internet. What's the general idea you guys got, that there's some sort of secret cabal on Reddit paying people to do… What exactly? Post positive things about already massively successful AAA games? You know, there was a time when I held imageboards in a higher esteem than Reddit as far as self-awareness and sharp perception goes, but Jesus Christ, watching you guys is putting things in a very different perspective.

Truly, there's no place on the internet left that's cancer and autism free.

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just leave like jesus fuck

And go where? Reddit is the same fucking hivemind just with a liberal tilt. Fuck that.

I just can't understand it.

how about 4chan?

Utter autism. It's like the two combined to create ultracancer. No fruitful discussion at all and you can get banned for saying nigger, too.

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Please somebody screenshot this thread
This is a perfect example of what redditors are faggots

Suicide is for the weak

so you?

oh man you got me so hard

So is browsing reddit, faggot.

Why? Go on, explain.

Yeah you fucking faggot, you claim to not care about what people think while being absolutely buttblasted that random anons on a fucking imageboard at the ass end of the internet shit on your opinions. Obviously you're not going to fit in anywhere, so just kill yourself already.

Jesus Christ, you're going to end up in China with how deep you're digging yourself into this hole.

I don't really care. Sounds like you're projecting.

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Death or 9gag.
It's all that's left for you, sperg.

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I've got a few monitors and this thread is open. What am I, supposed to wait a few minutes to seem cool? As I said, I don't give a fuck. I've also yet to hear a coherent explanation as to why Reddit is such a terrible website, other than the fact that it got normalfags on it.

harr harr I've never heard that one before, oh man

It's been discussed to death, but here you go. And this is only a part of the problem.

Can someone just ban this asshole already?

true tbh

Well, shit nigger, if people have told you to go to 9gag, or kill yourself that many times before, maybe, just maybe, you should do it?

Just stop posting dude. Learn how to blend in and not stick out like a moron. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper. You can't change the fact you got found that you are leddit cancer.

This is a cool timeline to live in

I already reported him, so hopefully a hotpocket takes notice.

The concept of lurking has been lost for years. All you can do now is show newfags what happens when they say stupid shit.

Oh yeah, shit, completely forgot.
Include me in the inevitable screencap.

How does league stay so popular then? The game gets turned on its head every year.

I swear to god when I see the autistic mob group up on here I die a little on the inside

They spent too much time and money to just quit, same applies to their friends. Even if one manages to quit, his friends pull him back in.

can it even get better? are you a furry too?

Since when am I a fucking Rust shill? Rust is shit, and has been for a very long time now.

(((23)))

KEEP GOING

What's wrong with a having a reddit account? As long as you keep 8-Chan and reddit separate, you're fine.

Go back to the gamergate threads or Holla Forums.

I'm just here to see how long until he's banned.
Anyone want to place bets while we wait? Maybe if we offer to give the pot to Mark he'll get off his ass.

This guy too

The concept of lucking is lost because you're fucking posting like a retard and not adhering to it.

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I understand the Holla Forums part, but why bring Gamergate into this?

I'm not sure if this is a false flag or not.

I really don't want Markuck to impose that kind of authority. I just want good old fashioned bullying and pruning of the faggot.

cause they use those autistic OCs non-stop.

You're just derailing the thread at this point. There's a tangible benefit to banning you.

Try harder.

It's a juggernaut when compared to the sea of casual bullshit that floods the market today.

These OCs are not autistic, they are part of board culture. Is Vivian an autistic OC?

yes

Absolutely.

vivian is stupid

Woah now, that's too advanced thought process for user to handle. Surely you can't just tell them to go enjoy things on their own and keep circles apart from each other.

Which is why you've played it for 38 hours in the past 2 weeks alone?

Honestly I don't think so. Especially considering just how much Valve ruined it post release.

The game was designed from the start to be a casual game. You can see it with how a huge amount of design decisions were made to deliberately shorten the skill gap. Like the bridge over 2fort and other design decisions. The game was also balanced around CTF and not the modes that were later enormously popular like Payload/koth

It's moreso people tend to have selective memories now about a game they played an enormous amount of (after it turned free because most people who played TF2 abandoned it years ago). I honestly see a lot of the resentment towards other class based shooters as people being more annoyed that there isn't a Team Fortress 3 and that their favorite game was ruined by the developer.

Kill yourself.

Why the fuck does this faggot either link all his accounts or use the same username?

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I'm not disagreeing with you, but there's better images to choose from.

The plot thiggens :-DDDDD

You've made my night, user.

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Archive or fuck off.

You're either baitposting or you're genuinely offended that Overwatch is doing poorly.

Oh boy, that just confirms it.

I'll corroborate the claims.

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This is too good. Someone has to be pulling a prank on rottenhuman or something.

Is it possible to get any more cancerous?

Don't bully the guy. He didn't go out of his way to post his Steam ID, you went ahead and dug through his shit.

You're almost as big of a faggot as he is.

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How much do you guys wanna bet me that this is the original guy with a VPN? No one, probably.

Fuck off, he has been a bastion of overwatch shilling cancer for a long time now. He's also a redditor, he invited everything he gets.

wew

wait and see

this was bound to happen sooner or later

I'm not an ATM, user.

Happy Birthday Holla Forums

He linked his own Youtube videos, and b extension, his channel. He got himself caught with no plan, and his plane crashed with no survivors.

Honestly he was asking for it, getting burned is part of the experience. Just hope he doesn't get burned too badly.

He left himself open to bullying when he directly linked his YT channel

Do you seriously come up with a new username for every single online forum? Do you have a different password for each one, too? What is someone going to do, hack into your account and find your tastes in porn?

I like 'Anonymous', personally.

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If you don't then you're either new to the internet or don't appreciate anonymity as much as the rest of us

Guy strays true to his name.
We really need to give redditors their own little holocaust, except this time it's real.

imagine getting BTFO this hard

I don't go to forums that require usernames because they are, without exception, populated by faggots like you.
This is basic cybersecurity you fucking child.
No, they'll find my TWO THOUSAND HOURS OF RUST and shitpost about it on Holla Forums. Oh, what a wonderful way to end the evening.

What's next, are you going to suggest linking your facebook to every website you've ever used? Are you Mark Zuckerberg?

Do you have any more of these Warcraft ones?

If anyone had placed bets on the VPN thing they would've just lost

Exactly what they did to the guy you're defending, you fucking idiot.

Anything that you would post on anonymous image boards should be anonymous. You can have the same handle for everything in it's own place, but never fucking post it here.

What's the big deal about anonymity?
It just means that all your posts are gone to the wind after a few days. If you have an account with a username, your posts will stay forever, and everyone can appreciate the content you made. Nobody can steal the credit for it, either. Plus, with an anonymous system like on chans, it just breeds shitposting with no consequences. At least with higher-level forums, you can get banned and your subscription removed for making too big of a mess. The internet isn't a wild west.

yes. so this exact scenario doesn't happen. Don't worry, you'll start using new usernames for forums too after all this is over

twitter.com/rottenhuman_

I didn't come here to laugh at you but damn if I won't.

keep going, your fag level will soon surpass the guy's

Nigger, do you know where you are?

How about not posting your own youtube channel in an attempt to call everyone else "hipsters" for not liking your casual esport on an anonymous imageboard

Go home, faggot.

Oh no, this bait is too good, I'm falling for it!

where do you retards come from?

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Good God, I'm not explaining this to you newfag

Go to bed, Quentin.

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Go play Rust some more.

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You can't… seriously be saying that, knowing where you are.

You are absolutely, positively retarded. Here's your (You).
Still don't want this guy banned?

But he's so fun.

Tell me, what do you think is going to happen to RottenRedditor? Is he simply going to be forgotten, or are his someone going to make a compilation of his retarded posts and all the anons laughing at him?
The consequence is getting banned and having people laugh at your idiocy. In this case, there's the added punishment of people knowing who you are and where you frequent on the internet.
Unfortunately, you're right. It used to be, but now the normalfags have gotten hold of it and are making it a sterile safe space for every dribbling retard on the face of the earth.

The delicious irony in the post is that his blunders answer this question for him.

I don't think even you believed just typing out those few sentences would have convinced anyone on this site to give up on anonymity. Just by looking at you and reddit user you prove just the opposite

Yeah, we'll both be forgotten. Even if every single user on this board saves a screencap of this thread, you know what's going to happen? Nothing. It's just a bunch of .jpg files on a bunch of hard drives. And you'll forget that you saved it, too. Your 8-Chan folder is probably terabytes big by now. Don't tell me you're going to be able to find that one screencap from that one thread in this sea of information years from now. Even if you do, are you going to laugh? I know for a fact you'll just breathe air out through your nose at a slightly faster speed than usual. Maybe you'll go "kek what a fag" or whatever slang is hip in the future. I can read you like a fucking bok.

What's the deal with anonymity, Jerry? Posting with my identity seems to have the same effect as posting anonymously.

Apparently you can't read very well at all.

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Wow you are wrong even on simple things like filetypes.

Floortiles man, once a post is screencapped, it's remembered forever. I'll remember the day some reddit-tard came to visit.

How exactly is having the information on an account any different? It'll just get buried under the rest of the shit you/others post, and people will forget about it.

All shooters are failing. They're always copying each other. Novelty is now a rare trait in any of them. In place of novelty are gimmicks.

The sole reason why Overwatch succeeded while the others are mediocre failures is not because Overwatch is good but because Blizzard fanboys are doppelgangers for marketers. Fanboys are a dying breed for any company including Nintendo. Their use in this age isn't even to defend something to the death but to be the foot in the door for marketers.

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It's always fun seeing someone get their ass burnt for acting like a fag. Being anonymous on the internet in (((CURRENT YEAR))) is a gift. Not one that most people have, and not one that should be treated lightly. Protect what little privacy you have left, guys. I know for most that goes without saying, but this one's for all the lurking redditfags that are watching this unfold and have enough sense to think before they post. He could have posted this as a webm and nobody would have batted an eye, just goes to show how easy it is to fuck up.

Since everyone else is asleep now, I'll take this opportunity to ask: why do you guys like webms over mp4s, anyway?

better compression/quality

(((mp4)))

WEBMs have higher quality audio with vorbis and opus, and higher quality video with vp9 whereas mp4s here can only have h264 video and aac audio. MP4 is also proprietary and just worse than webm/mkv outside of matroska's retarded way of storing frame timings.

Short answer and an extension to the long answer: webm and mp4 are the only video formats supported in here.

Which also means they're more of a bitch to convert from mkv than mp4's

Fuck off redditor

Webms were able to be posted before mp4s.

oh and I mean media container not video format. The video formats supported in here are vp9, vp8 and h264 and technically also APNG and GIF .

Nobody is going to forget you, rottenredditor. You're going to be the poster boy as to why we hate redditors and the benefits of anonymous posting.

When someone asks "why do you hate reddit", show the rottenredditor. Never forget the context which is as follows:
user asks about CRAPCUNTS.
Anons shit on Overwatch.
Offended Rottenreddit (RR) goes on to call everyone hipsters and posts his youtube channel to back up his argument as to why Overwatch was good. He insulted anyone who argued against him.
user discovers his reddit page and calls him a rust shill.
RR doubles down: "what's wrong with using different sites?" "I'm not a Rust shill. Rust is a shit game"
user calls his bluff and exposes his 34 hours in Rust this week as well has is 2k overall game time, alongside his steam account.
RR doublesdown by getting on a VPN to denounce anonymity (because it failed him and he's unable to gather pii on his detractors) and defend himself.

Alright, thanks for the info.

I'll have fun capping this thread tomorrow. It's been wonderful.

You can come up with a better nickname than that. That's no better than "sonygger".

Being a redditard is almost as bad as being a nigger, faggot.

No. His handle is rottenhuman. There is no greater insult to a redditor than to call him a redditor.

Not even close. I used to know plenty of people proud to be redditors. One of them even bought a shirt with this logo on it. I will admit that the fabric on these screenprinted meme shirts are very nice. Not very good for wiping wet hands with, though.

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It incorporates his filthy Reddit origins into his handle and rolls off the tongue better than RedditHuman.

There are people who are proud about being furries. It doesn't make them any less of a degenerate fetishist.

But his argument was
I'm just proving him wrong.

Then why do you have such an issue with me calling you Rottenredditor? Go ahead and post pictures of your tshirt.

You can say that for warcraft, diablo 3 and most others. But diablo 1-2 and starcraft are not really casual games. Starcraft is popular but not casual.

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Time to go rottenredditor

MODS PLEASE FUCKING NUKE THIS THREAD

Fuck off. I'm going to cap this tomorrow and I'd rather have coloured IDs instead of the archived version.

Why wait until tomorrow, anyway?

The funny part is that they actually have to recruit from reddit to keep their board alive

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MODS WAIT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE A SCREENCAP OF A REDDITOR BEING RETARDED
Don't nuke the bread yet thanks

We all know you're going to be here all night.

I like staying in threads past midnight. Especially the Gamergate threads. Lots of rare OC to make and download.

Just keep the thread open.

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It's not the staying, it's the posting continually to defend and draw attention away from your own embarassment

And what embarrassment is there to be ashamed of, user?

Holy fuck screen cap when

If not for this thread I would be playing video games.
Thanks for saving me, Holla Forums.

Holy shit this thread is too fucking good.
I really hope someone is capping all of this.

Is your name Jake Atkins? Just cheking

nope

Whatever you say Jake

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What's in the Pizza boxes?

Video games discussion

burgers.

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What are you going on about?

Has this been posted yet? I imagine this is what it's gonna be like.

We need more threads like this. Please, someone cap this.

Jesus fucking christ the people this guy follows

I'm still salty over Holla Forums abandoning us when we needed it the most.

Holy shit. I don't know whats more egregious. This is why you don't use the same username everywhere you go, newfags.

You're being generous, you didn't even show him following Polygon or Machinima.

I will admit that is pretty funny.

Bullshit.

Laughing at yourself won't help you, you fool.

Oh it's real, same username and profile picture.
twitter.com/rottenhuman_?lang=en

See for yourself
twitter.com/rottenhuman_/following

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I'M NOT 878dc3
How the fuck can I prove this.

You could stop posting and walk away rottenredditor

kill yourselves

Post pics.

pic related would be a good start

Finally, video games have their own Kiltcuck.

I guess it's time for a little bit more context.

i do have one but you're still a fuckin idiot

I should proofread before I hit submit.

You can't, we already know.

I'm his dad. Please be nice to him. He's autistic.

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Please just stop posting

I'm not trying to jump on any bandwagons here, i'm just evaluating the situation as I see it.
When Rotten was outed as a Redditor, he got increasingly defensive, and he even lied about him liking Rust to save face.
Then the moment someone pointed out that he posted (((23))) times, you out of nowhere showed up to come in defense for having a reddit account along with browsing Holla Forums and now 878dc3 has gone completely quiet, you then come into his defense even further after his Steam account was outed.
Now either you are incredibly nice naive human being who showed up at the wrong time when 878dc3 ran the hell away, or you are just simply Rotten with another ID.

Wew

I was wondering why a thread about the worst genre, "class shooters" was getting replies. Twenty minutes passed by, thanks.

Fuck, I was going to say "If dubs rottenredditor starts the final solution.

People ridicule gamergate because it attracted redditors like you

Go home or I'll let some wild COMBLOC magazines ruin your day.

you need to go back

This.

There's a reason Paladin is more successful than Stillborn, Lawbreakers and most other shit.

What the fuck do you think would be inside a pizza box you wanker, spaghetti?

You're replying.
Even though you could've restarted your router and start anew.
leave.
I already reported you too (^:

I finished it
hopefully someones still lurking to critique my oc

Kind of a clusterfuck. Why not make it strictly topdown like or so it flows naturally?

Thanks ill make a second one when i can

OKAY
broken it down to 2 parts now

Beautiful user, thank you for taking the time to do this.
Last bit of criticism, not a big deal, but having your cursor in the captures triggers my austism. It's a tad unprofessional.
Not really something that needs to be fixed, but try to avoid it in the future.

Thanks, this thread has made me happy

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Oops, here's the fixed version.

Wonderful!

Beautiful. I would have cropped each post better and I would have preferred more of the reaction images after the posts with a dozen replies, but you've cut out a lot of the fat. Good work.

part 1 done, 142b96 saga incoming

Oh shit, nice.

You're all going to forget this.

this will also be going into the screencap

for

We know who you are now rotten, you sad piece of shit. I'll enjoy watching your embarrassing rust clone fail

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You're already infamous for shitting yourself in sigmadev's thread and other /agdg/ threads, so not likely.

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well fuck, now I feel like I wasted my time trying to answer OP seriously

oh well

I'm gonna need more details, user.

For what it's worth, your analysis was pretty good and I liked it.

He regularly blows an autistic load in agdg threads discussing his ideaguy tier horseshit. You can find the design document for his shitty and nonexistent rust clone at:

pastebin . com / fdz7rCPN

Oh, I thought he had confessed to actually shitting himself or something. Pardon my autism.

I liked your posts enough to cap them for posterity's sake, user. You made some really good points.

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11/10. Thank you.

Well done

Bit of nitpicking, but you forgot to include the bits where he first denies being a Redditor, then gets defensive over it and finally gets butthurt over being called "rottenredditor", without which the Goebbels picture has no context. But still, it's a top-tier recap nonetheless.

trips demand action

I wish we had more anons like you on this board.

y-you too
I usually lurk so this place would look empty if that were the case

I'd take that over the sound and fury we have now, frankly, and I honestly couldn't have capped it better myself; good job.

Doing God's work, user.

is posting fucked up?