ITT: We only talk about the artistic merits of the prequels and George Lucas as a filmmaker.No ad hom or RLM parroting allowed.
ITT: We only talk about the artistic merits of the prequels and George Lucas as a filmmaker...
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>>133739963Visionary genious, modern day Shakespeare.
>>133740005I wanna visit the Jedi temple and just hang out.
>>133739963Mark Hamill was relentlessly handsome. Hayden Christensen is relentlessly handsome.
>>133740005Such was life before Substance Painter
>>133739963They were the last blockbuster films that could rightly be called art
>>133740702>They were the last blockbuster films that could rightly be called art>POOPOO GOO GOO GAGA *farts* HAHA OOOPSIE MISTA ANAKIN I STEP ON POOPOO OUIEEEEE
>>133740005it actually looks like painting (made by Picasso)George was genius.
>>133740780Art can have jokes in it. Films can have multiple tones
>>133739963this shit was lit
>>133741043It felt like a big deal when Yoda did that
>>133739963>Mace Windu has the same beheading finisher in AOTC
>>133741081I don't hate this particular duel, but I feel Yoda with a lightsaber was kinda unnecessary.
>>133741093>>Mace Windu has the same beheading finisher in ROTSNick Gillard created lightsaber combat style for major Jedi and Sith and it mogs an entire Sequel Trilogy stunt crew low diff
>>133741130Watching the BTS footage Nick Gillard is an absolute weapon. The amount of thought and meaning he put into the lightsaber fights is insane. It's amazing the guy hasn't had a better career. I guess swordfighting isn't much of an art in most modern blockbusters.
>>133739963Those Anakin shots are gorgeous. Especially the one where it looks like Anakin gets knighting by Sidious while Kenobi watches.
>>133741128Agreed, having him just decide to stop being old and needing a cane and then start bouncing off the walls was off putting.
>art cant appeal to children>art cant then appeal then to young adults>art then possibly cant then appeal to fully formed adultsIts all layers after all. I feel like most just can't figure out movies can have steps to them
>>133741366its like saying plato's texts cant resinate in multi faceted
>>133739963I liked when he hired hundreds of other people to do all the detailed and painstaking work for him every week, just to have him walk into a room with a sharpie and go "yeah, I don't like this" and have them spend 30 hours to do it all again.Real innovative direction.
>>133741689They get paid for that, they aren't 4chan jannies
>>133740702Endgame is quite objectively, the last blockbuster. Not films from over 20 years ago. We were still seeing blockbusters all throughout the 2000s.
>>133741130>make a wide swing with your entire fucking body >have your chest exposed >then don't even see the exposed chest and move an inch forward with your "burn everything to molten lava" stick yes, Gillard was sure a genius.
>>133741744Sure, but the point is that he just walks into a room and goes "I want an alien, go make some aliens" and then an entire department without any real direction, slaves away at making dozens of alien mockups...just to have him go "nah, not like this though". It's no wonder everyone in the BTS for the prequels looks like they want to kill themselves, that's torture for a VFX or art team.
>>133741764He said>last blockbuster films that could rightly be called art
>>133741871 Oh, then that title goes to Return of the King.
>>133741801you missed the point - they keep fighting styles consisent through two movies which is pretty damn impressive given how shitty sequels fights were.
>>133742033Just looks like they reused a move that makes no sense in both contexts because Gillard was on a clock and confused about the modus of the scene, which seems more likely than he planned it out.
>>133741764Endgame isn't art in the same way that the star wars prequels are. There's a lot of talent and artistry involved, but it's a studio film, not a creatively born endeavour.
>>133742137I know you'll have an autistic fit but there is the same amount of work that went into Endgame as Attack of the Clones, probably more especially in terms of VFX work.
>>133742202I think the fact that most modern VFX programs and suites were developed for the prequels means that they would have been more time consuming. But yeah, ultimately the difference is negligible and all big budget films take massive amounts of man hours and effort to complete. I don't think that effort is always indicative of the outcome though, so it's irrelevant in the discussion of artistic merit. Endgame was written, directed, and produced by tens of different people. It wasn't the project of one person who had a story they were incredibly passionate about telling. It was made because it was the allotted slot in the MCU timeline when they needed a big team up movie to pay off a lot of audience investment. I actually quite liked it, but it's absolutely a product, not a piece of creative expression the same way that the prequels are.
they're terrible and the people who like them are morons.
>>133742402I mean, I mostly agree with all of this but the prequels are also literally a product as well. I don't know why we pretend that George wasn't thinking about merchandising at all when he made clearly merchandise-heavy decisions with design work and character models. I don't think it's fair to say that it's not a product. Star Wars was selling more toys than anything else, so it's a bad point to make. Largely I agree with your point on VFX work, I will say that Endgame and by extension, the larger MCU plot, was in fact the vision of three distinct writers and planned out to tell a story. Both are products though, let's not fool ourselves.
>>133742494He doesn't strike me as that cynical of a guy. I think he really enjoyed fleshing out the world with creative characters. I mean, sure it does make for a good merchandising opportunity, but I don't think that was his sole concern. He was already a multi-billionaire by the time the prequels came around, and if he was only interested in them in a monetary sense he'd have gotten someone else to direct his scripts while he raked in all the cash as exec producer. They have corporate elements to them, as any film does, but I think ultimately the scales tip far more in favour of them being artistic endeavours rather than corporate ones.
>>133740005Look at that sexy ass lens edge warp.
>>133742722>He doesn't strike me as that cynical of a guy. Do you remember Return of the Jedi? He was making marketing decisions in order to sell Ewok toys. He literally talks about that. But yeah, I can see what you mean.
>>133742075Didn't they have problems with McDiarmid struggling with his choreography because he wasn't as fit as Jackson? It's crazy to think that they were only four years apart in age.
>>133742494How is it bad, if actually great creative designs also make good merchandise? Could you please explain in detail, what do you mean by merchandise-heavy decisions?
For all of the problems, it still had creativity, and that's something that the sequels lacked entirely.Cool character designs don't mean everything but its definitely appreciated. I don't think the ST introduced a single cool new design or concept into the franchise. Their idea of creativity was turning a stormstrooper into a different color.
>>133742837I mean, making decisions that don't focus on story FIRST as the goal, which were the Ewoks. The Ewoks don't necessarily serve the story in any meaningful way besides "being there for the battle" that you could just erase from the plot and replace with more rebels. That's what I mean; making choices that are marketing first, plot second. The prequels are honestly filled with that too.
>>133742830kek they did, yeah.
What really gets me is all the masterful music work that is unironically some of the best score work in John's entire career and the film itself is just so...fucking awful.
>>133742897The Ewoks always worked for me. Obviously the Rebels weren't committing a large force on the surface, they only had one ship that could get through. The Ewoks made Endor feel like more than just random location #27. Them fighting off the Empire troops is definitely a stretch but at least they have home-field advantage.
>>133743034But their addition to the script doesn't really offer anything to the story, it doesn't change the outcome and effects very little of the story. They are a backdrop for only ONE actual plot-driven scene, when Luke and Leia talk about Vader, Padme and such. You could erase everything about Ewoks and the film ends the same way for the most part.
>>133743080Sure, they could just not be there and they still could have shut down the shield. What I'm saying is that them being there improves that part of the movie because it keeps it from being just another "go here do this" sequence. Just because something in a movie doesn't have any bearing on the ending doesn't mean it's only there to sell toys.
>>133743183>Just because something in a movie doesn't have any bearing on the ending doesn't mean it's only there to sell toysLucas has stated many times that it was an attempt to make the films more appealing to children to sell toys though?
>>133743219Their design was intended to sell toys maybe. Even if every single thing that happens with the Ewoks in the movie was simply intended to sell toys, which I doubt considering the extent of their involvement, I still think they add value to the movie. Not based on their design but based on their role.
>>133743354>considering the extent of their involvementanon, they literally do anything in the film?
>>133743392The main characters spend a decent amount of time with them, and they kill the enemy troops.
>>133743392*nothing I meant, they literally do nothing in the film
>>133743432They don't even have names as characters, they are a backdrop and the only thing worth doing there, for the audience, is a scene with Luke that George could have had ANYWHERE else and then the Ewoks show up to help the Rebels...that's not really plot specific or necessary.
>>133739963>artistic meritsYou mean all that boring corruscand decoration, that galaxy congress that looked like a souless workimg cabin?
>>133743465>that's not really plot specific or necessaryIf you think everything in a movie needs to be "necessary" then I guess we watch movies differently.
>>133743487Necessary for the story, not in general. If you need to resort to adding things that don't help your movie, then that seems like somewhat of a wasted opportunity.
>>133740005lmfaoPrequelkiddies are unbelievable
Is there a way to like the prequels without being salty about the audience? For me, the prequels are Shakespearean and tell a great story, but I simply cannot hold it against audiences that the movies are all over the place and intentionally feel like a decadent story about impotent people.
>>133739963I like how Lucas is clearly anti-fascist in his messageYet his fans on 4chan act like them on on a daily basis
>>133740326>tfw I now recognise default Substance dirt masks when i see 3D assets Am I autistic?