Sonic vs Reality

Yeah man, fuck, this one classic sonic game, the first one in over two decades, is way too much, the fans got what they wanted and now the market is saturated
They should just stick to the same shitty modern sonic games they've been making since 06, I mean, come on, it's 2017, who wants to play old games

And since the Mania team made one good game we can dump on a bunch of pressure to mix it up. Gotta keep it fresh, the Sonic franchise needs it!

3D Sonics were never good though. Not a single one of them was ever even remotely able to translate the elements about the original games into a 3D playstyle. I'm not going to say that it can't be done, but frankly I'd rather Sega spend a few years using a working formula before they actually try it again. At least that way they're still putting out semi decent Sonic games for awhile.

Says who? The Mario games don't and they're still wildly successful and sometimes might actually be good.
You didn't notice?

I don't know what you're talking about, Mania is /exactly/ what Sonic Team needs, albeit in a more original, less remixed manner. I guarantee Christian💖 and co are more able to keep it fresh.
Though, I have an even BETTER IDEA.
Have different Sonic Teams for different audiences in the vein that Nintendo has Mario, expanding their workload and split the canons in a way where they don't directly bleed into each other, which would be just fucking great and I guarantee It will calm the fanbase a bit.

So…
"Serious" Timeline:
For SA fags and people who like edgy tense lore filled sanic.
I.E; SA / SA2 / Shadow / '06 / Heroes(?)

Classic Timeline:
90's fans and such, people who love 2cool4school sanic and can jam the fuck out.
I.E: Sonic 1/2/3&K/Chaotix/CD

Self Deprecating Post Modern Timeline:
Play it safe boost formula. Roger Craig Smith up the butt. My least favorite, personally, but hey, if you like it then more power for you.
I.E: Sonic Colors/Lost World/Boom/Forces

Experimental Timeline:
SMALL/MEDIUM BUDGETS.
Let SEGA go full autism with these projects and see what kind of shit sticks.

I.E; Sonic Shuffle, Spinball, Heroes, Lost World, Chronicles, Rivals, Teaching, Fighters, Waku Waku Patrol, Racing, Arcade, etc. All of that miscellaneous crap!

Chao Garden Galore
Make a chao garden game that is able to detect what sonic games are in your account, and gives you chao and rewards in the style of said game. Having a personalized trophy system IN the game to boot, and amiibo support and DLC for retards who like being scammed, IT'S BUSINESS BABY, FUCK YOU. Anyways, this would not only have 20 chao gardens, but it would have a whole set of challenges pertaining to each specific era of sonic, and a custom chao garden maker to boot. Add new class of chao, like telekinetic, warping and elemental chao
You know how your items get more varied as you get more emblems? Like that.

I do mean have it in a Style of Pokemon Ranch or Monster rancher, you know how these things go, giving them their own games. Giving it multiplayer and Internet capabilities would make it a huge hit.
Give it a phone app as well? Forget about it!

Sonic is doing fine, yall can eat a dick

You walk up to green hill zone and see sonic looking THICC. AF.

Wyd?????

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I don't know where to put it, honestly.

They could pull a Kojima and do a game with Sonic as an old man.

Give Sonic a Dad
Put him the third Sonic Rush Game.

A follow-up to Mania would be fine, as long as they stop with the remake levels.
Sega should take note: the game is a critical success and hopefully a commercial one, but the biggest complaint is that the original stages are way better and much more exciting than remakes.Although of any Sonic game, Mania by far has the "best" remakes. Generations is a joke in comparison.
Forces is a joke. Any 3D Sonic game will be because it just doesn't work. It's a miracle the Adventure games were any fun at all, and they're objectively bad games.

Let Taxman & Stealth set up shop as the new Sonic Team. Commission a full port of all the Genesis games for a cross-platform re-release, including bugfixes, precision timers, cut content, etc. Order a sequel to Mania comprised of at least 80% original stages.

It'll work. Sega just has to not be retarded.

Shit, what was the name of this autism.

What are some ideas you have for Sonic Zones? I have a lot now that Christian Whitehead damn near pumped his penis of inspiration into my neghole of conception.

Post ending in dubs names the next sonic game.

ALL I WANTED WAS SONIC GENERATIONS 2=
although I wouldn't mind seeing Lost World refined with a sequel

fucking hell what a retard.

Sonic the fuck face faggots and the raggedy dildo collection

Sanic rapes Amy Rose

This is my shortlist:

Foundry Zone
A fire + ice level.
Different kinds of ice levels (Taiga, Tundra, etc)
Alpine, with lots of slopes and huge trees (Redwoods?). Would be neat to have one act during the day and another at night.
Jungle zone, but slightly less tropical than the beaches of Angel Island Zone.
Caribbean Tropical Island
Beach/Cape Code/Lighthouse/Pier
Savanna/Outback
Swamp/Bog
Recording Studio/Music themed level, akin to Studiopolis
Concert level
Scrap Heap, with badniks built from the remains of other destroyed bots and machinery. Could literally just be two different badniks stitched together with the abilities of both.

I'd like some more indoor puzzle maps, like the original Marble Zone Act 1 was, but a bit harder. I know some people hate non-fast zones, but I like the break in the pacing. Maybe give faster routes through exploration, so subsequent runs aren't so tedious.

There's a lot of potential for industrial zones, so long as they're differentiated aesthetically and they aren't the bulk of the levels. Space and Flying Fortress zones have been covered pretty well, but foundries, power plants, landfills, lumber mill, oil refinery, weapons research lab, steel mill…

There's a lot of different aesthetics to do. And to some extent, they'll have to be built on existing zones… but even the Genesis games followed similar patterns. You need an easy "Something Hill Zone". You need a "water level", probably with some kind of Atlantean or South American architecture. You get a couple industrial zones, probably including a flying gunship and a space station. But you could come up with unique mechanics for each, and build out the theme from there. Should be enough to last for a few more Sonic games before it starts to feel like they're out of ideas, but even then there's probably still somewhere to take inspiration from.

Should I get Sonic Mania for the PC or PS4?

I still feel Lost World needs to be revisited and refined. The gameplay style boasts loads of potential, and if it was more momentum based It would be perfect.

If not lost world, then at least bring in the parkour system for more fluidity.

Anotehr issue i'm having with boost games are enemies. They are pointless, and not even a challenge to cruise past enemies these days.

Hell, Mix the adventure gameplay with the parkour system for maximum effectiveness

I wouldn't mind seeing what Whitehead and his crew could do with a 3D game. I always wanted to see the pinball physics of classic Sonic adapted properly into 3D. Some kind of mashup of a 3D platformer and Super Monkey Ball.

Sonic Team must have listened to the "It should be only Eggman and Sonic" crowd after 06 came out. and what that did was give is 9 years of simply OK at best 3D Sonic games, ditching all other playable characters was a mistake.
Maybe they could refine the Eggman Tails mech stage's or do something different altogether, but my point is giving 3D Sonic more characters adds variety in Gameplay to keep things from getting repetitive. 06 might have been a good game if they tweaked the story and you know, actually fucking finished the game. You can see there is a ton of unfinished ideas still in the game
Soinc games only benefits from having more characters but since Sonic Team listened to "only Eggman and Sonic" that's why they keeps putting in gimmicks instead of other playable characters.

Forces is adding the OC so that's something interesting, but it's still boost gameplay for modern Sonic, which while not all bad per say it's not very skill based (at least in generations it wasn't)
They really need to bring back the scoring and rank system from Adventure 2 because that rewarded Speed but also having a stategy for the level, Pre unleashed Enemies you needed to destroy enemies if you wanted to get an A rank, now Enemies are pretty pointless since you can just boost through almost all of them and destroying them fill your boost so you can keep boosting through them.

In all honesty while the Shadow game is heavily flawed it has the best mission structure every level has 2-3 objectives that you choose to do how you want and were scored differently based on how many good or evil points you had. having good points made your evil rank worse and vise versa were as the simple get to the end of the level missions were just time and neutral score based.

Does there need to be good and evil points? No, but there is still something Sonic Team can learn form this system.

What if
CD sequel with branching paths based on time travel

yes they can. 2d sonci is the only good sonic. unless somebody somehow figures out how to make a proper 3D sonic, then ill take 2d sprite games

The problem was never with having more playable characters. The problem was forcing the player to do things that were infinitely less fun than playing as Sonic, like treasure hunting and fishing.
They should follow the model set by the 2D games. multiple playable characters, but they're all optional, and play like slight variations on Sonic's gameplay.
You always play the same stages, but if you pick Knuckles, you can reach a section of the stage that isn't accessable to Sonic. Things like that.

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it's called sonic colors

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It's fucking Tamers12345. This should be well-known by now.

Fair enough, I guess I don't remember it that well. I just liked that the game had levels that encouraged going fast mixed in with levels that encouraged exploration. And I thought the parts that were 3D were well done.

Heroes and 06 while flawed, actually have similarities to this idea, aside from the optional part since you need to unlock the true final boss.

Heroes had it so each set of characters were basically a difficulty level with Chaotix being the bonus missions.
now this wasn't perfect since every team was basically the same thing with slightly different animations, But I enjoyed the unique banter everyone has with each other when it's not tutorial shit.

Heroes also has the best combat of the whole series IMO, going from level 1-3 with everyone and just demolishing all eneimes was great, The unique and Team blast abilities were great. and I think the bosses in Heroes were the best of all 3D Sonics.

Now the problem with Shadow and 06 going foward was the had the same health bar system for the enemies but not the same combat. Shadow made up for this with having the guns and other weapons but there was never not a reason to just find a machine gun and just use only that for everything.

06 also had problems with combat.
Sonic's combat wasn't good since pretty much all you could do was homing attack, which doesn't work well when an enemy takes more then 1 hit to kill.
Shadow's combat was better then Sonic's since he had a few more abilities but shadow as a whole suffed from being slower then Sonic to encourage use of vehicles.
Silver actually had decent combat since the telekinesis was fun to use and required a little strategy. his gameplay didn't suffer as much from a slower speed since it was mostly about platforming instead

06's biggest problem were the lack of proper momentum like adventure 1 & 2 had, unfinished level design, unpolished controls, and Sonic's forced mach speed/Shadows forced vehicle sections. there really aren't that many problems with Silvers game play though it could be impoved on allot.

But really I just disappointed Shadow was ditched as a playable character since his Chaos Control abilities are perfect for an action game in the vain of Devil May Cry, but that's never going to happen.

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Seeing that we're talking about Sonic, who do you think controls better when running, Yoshi or Sonic? For all the people complaining about Classic Sonic not controlling well because he's a fast character you never hear this with Yoshi. I love Yoshi's Island because of the level design and gameplay mechanic. But my gripe is how when Yoshi goes fast he never really feels as right as Sonic. Yoshi never ran at blistering speed as Sonic, but his leap when running feels more awkward than Sonic's leap and his running doesn't feel as well smoother as Sonic's running.

Lol I think these are posts made by faggots pretending to be bots, because no one can be this retarded.

It's crazy how much more likable a hawaiian shirt makes Shadow.

At least sonic eggs don't smell.

The reality is, hedgehogs don't exist.

that game is garbage, and you are cancer if you enjoy it or support it

And you call me the cuck.

Good execution on his points, but I'll have to reject, it's coming from a conformist "Let's wait and see. It'll get better, I swear!" POV.

Why are you playing Sonic, man?

Delicious.

SEGA does what Nintendon't
Go Third Party.

Nintendo winning the console war was a mistake.

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In what order do I play the sanic games? What do I avoid?

Even as a shitpost, please reconsider

Play the original trilogy, the fangames and play the 3D games last. fanbase is divided on 3D sonic.

Except Mania's success was due to the fact that it progressed and iterated on the classic design

Why?

It's not, it's the genesis sonic but with more gameplay refinements (drop dash) and stage mechanics

Oh, so you're retarded. I see now.

PC for mods tbh.

OK I'm going to try and list how to fix 3D Sonic IMO

FYI when I refer to boost Sonic I mostly mean Generations since that is the most popular boost game.

1.Boost=low skill instant gratification gameplay, Spin Dash=high skill satisfying gameplay
Boost Sonic is fun for a playthough once in a while, but unless your going for the kinds of runs that completely glitch Sonic out of the level due to how fast your going. Then the skill ceiling is really low, and that makes the game have less replayablity since there is hardly room for improvement. Easy Speed isn't as nearly Fun as when the player earns their speed with there skill. Sonic adventure 2 added the roll attack so you couldn't just spam the Spin dash like in Adventure 1 this was great since this forces the player to plan when and how to use the spin dash to it's high potential. Boost Sonic throws all that out the window and give you a GO FAST button and it's a lesser game for it.

2.Stop making levels feel like one person race tracks bring back Score, Combos, and Tricks.
Boost Sonic's levels feel like you doing nothing but moving forward you can't even fall of when there is a turn because guardrails are everywhere. there needs to be more too the levels then just getting to the end, I just played though green hill in generations with out using boost once and never jumping unless i had to, I still got an A rank, it might be impossible to actually get a D in that game. In Adventure 2 comboing enemies were and preforming tricks were extremely important to getting an A rank this added a ton of replayablity to levels and A ranks felt rewarding where S ranks in Generations are handed out like cheap candy. Preforming tricks off Ramps and rails is far more fun and satisfying and to master.

3.Stop making gimmicks, bring back Upgrades and other playable characters
The stomp sucks the bounce bracelet is better in literally every way, Wisps are gimmicky and are only used when the game lets you. The upgrades from Adventure 1 & 2 are far better since you choose when and how you use them whenever you want, and those upgrades improved Sonic's gameplay completely they didn't change it in to something entirely different like the Wisps do.
Other Playable characters only improve Sonic games though it is flawed in Adventure 2. it's not that Hunting or Mech shooting were not fun, but the Sonic/Shadow levels were noticeably better. I doubt they can justify the master emerald getting shared for a 3rd time so like this user said here The multiple playable characters should have they're own unique abilities, but still play though levels like Sonic, this actually was what 06 was going for but the game is so unfinished and unpolished it didn't work out.
Sonic Forces already has the OC and that is already making me interested in the game simply because variety is almost always better.

1/2

2/2

4. Combat/Fix the homing attack
The lock on icon they added to the homing attack sucks all it does is restrict what you can do and what the devs can do with enemy Item and spring placement. Webm related is impossible with the curent lock on system, there was nothing wrong with how the homing attack was before the lock on icon.
Enemies should either stay one hit kills or if they bring the life bars back make combat more akin to how it was in Heroes, Now this could be tricky when playing only 1 character but there isn't anything stopping Sonic team from adding better combat to Sonic for example maybe spindashing into an enemy but continuing to spin on contact like a buzzsaw. Maybe Chaos emeralds can unlock new Chaos energy powered abilities and attacks instead of basically being useless until you have all 7, if sonic and Silver could use chaos control what's stoping others from having cool attacks like Shadow does with Chaos Control, Spear, or Blast.

5.Writing
Really they should just get the guy who wrights the comics Ian Flynn since he seems to understands the appeal of Sonic better then Sega does.
Ken Pontac and Warren Graff Suck at writing a Sonic story that make give a shit about anything happening. I can't blame them entirely since I think Sonic Team may have got them to wright more laid back stories on purpose since after The Shadow game and 06 shit was getting a little too dark, but still I think they did there job. Since forces isn't out yet we can't really judge it fully but moving forward I think Sonic would benefit most from Sonic Heroes style writing.
Nobody Died in Sonic Heroes
Every team had a goal, a reason to chase Eggman and nice little character moments once in a while, not much to complain about aside from some annoying tutorial dialog once in awhile.
Also Sonic needs people to banter with, Sonic on his own is kind of bland, when he has someone to work off of he's much more entertaining.
I don't have any problems with any other characters except one, Shadow. now Shadow is actually my personal Favorite Sonic character, (with Classic sonic and Metal Sonic tied for a very close second place) but that doesn't change the fact that Shadow has only ever been done right once in Adventure 2, amnesia Shadow Sucks, and he has his memories back so there is no reason he shouldn't act like he did in adventure 2.
in that game Shadow was totally Self Confident and smug, So much so he pissed Sonic off. with the famous line "Your not even good enough to be my fake" That is Shadow at his best. 06 Shadow was OK but still not thing special save for his ending. The Ow The Edge/Mr Unsmiley Shadow meme needs to die. Now Shadow doesn't need to be smug all the time but he should have a good badass moment and a one liner once in a while to remind everyone why he's the ultimate life form. Shadow needs to be the one who doesn't like waste his time and gets shit done. If they can't do Shadow right I would rather he just not be used at all.

Basically all this is saying go back to adventure 2 game play but refine and improve it 06 really is the closest thing to adventure 3 but the game was just not finished and it's a shame that that style of game play had to die because of it.

This is just what I thought of at the moment what do you anons think maybe together we can refine this.

Oh and one more thing stop putting in 2D segments.
If I wanted to play 2D Sonic I would play A 2D sonic game.

Now that I think about it, are there even that many outright bad Sanic games, aside from 06, Boom, and Sanic 4 and the occasional pointless spinoff? Considering the stupid gimmicks that keep on getting tacked on, it's pretty obvious Sonic Team don't have a clear idea where they want to take the franchise or what makes it tick, but the end result isn't bad, just somewhere between meh and alright most of the time.

Main line Sonic games have never be horrible. Flawed yes, but the amount of shit Sonic gets doesn't seem to have a clear starting point. It's like 06 happened and everyone just said "Well I guess Sonic was always shit."

3D Sonic was always unpopular with people who grew up on the 2D games. A lot of people hated the Adventure games when they were new.

I think the "Sonic was never good" meme didn't kick off till a couple of years later when aside from Unleashed and Sonic Rush Adventure, there were a bunch of crappy spinoffs like Mario & Sonic sports shit and the atrocious piece of shit known as The Dark Brotherhood, which honestly should've been a red flag that Bioware wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

JUST HAVE THE SONIC MANIA DEVS MAKE CLASSIC SONIC GAMES
JUST HAVE SONIC TEAM MAKE MODERN SONIC GAMES
THAT'S LITERALLY ALL YOU NEED TO DO. THIS ISN'T FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE

How can a cartoon bat have such perfect amounts of shortstack and thiccness?

POST YFW THE NEXT SONIC GAME IS A REMAKE OF XTREME BUT AS A MOBILE P2W IDLE CLICKER

That's the thing Modern Sonic has only ranged from good to meh for years, with Adventure 1 and 2 still being too flawed to call Great.
Every 3D Sonic game has had flaws that stop them from being truly Great.
I made these to try and find a what to improve, and I would like to see what others think.

The Adventure games were incredibly well received on Dreamcast, and only started getting flack when they were ported to gamecube.

Honestly I just want the chao garden made into it's own game, use it as an excuse to have a Mario maker for sonic to collect animals and all.
Since you know, Sega doesn't know how to sonic let the people do it.

Just polish up the Sonic gameplay from SA2 and expand his moveset by adding in wall jumping, wall running, sidestepping and at the fastest speed, drifting. Make the levels slightly roomier and design them so you build momentum naturally. Boostpads are the devil. Levels should always have a low, mid and high path, but I don't think there should be death pits. Just make the low areas extremely slow to get out of in some places. Give the homing attack a reticle and if the enemy is offscreen the reticle appears at the edge of the screen in their direction so you know exactly where you're going always. Ramps, rails, hooks, etc should be a bright orange or red or some shit giving you an instant visual cue you can use them to get places. Lastly, we should have full camera control. Knuckles can have treasure hunt gameplay with Werehog styled combat to spice it up a tad. SA1 styled radar of course. Also if you're going to have a hub world with people, have at least half of them be furry people like sonic and the gang to make shit less jarring.

There, I just fixed 3D Sonic.

Or what if…
It could work.

Sonic Nigger Killer Simulator 3D

PS4

I don't see how going PS4 is better then PC unless the user can't wait 2 days.

You came in after the Mania leaks, right? You're one of those YouTube faggots who whines about Classic Sonic fans being the "Genwunners" of Sonic, right?

I actually think a Mania 2 would be great. They AREN'T entirely rehashing the past because they're bringing new mechanics and features, so, yeah, if they continued like this but had all new levels, it'd be a Sonic 5 for sure. I'm not even going to go into the whole difference in momentum and physics that some of the games offer versus the others, because FUCK I've been through this argument over and over again and it almost always begins to turn into
as if my arguments aren't getting through.
I can understand Mania Sonic not being Classic Sonic however simply because of the atmosphere and style the game brings, but, honestly, being different characters doesn't make sense. Mania Sonic IS Classic Sonic as the story literally continues after all of the Classic games have been done. Dreamcast Sonic is, however, vastly different in personality and style than Unleashed Sonic, so I'll have to disagree there.

Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with Modern Sonic, hell, when was the last actual bad Sonic game? Generations was great, Lost World was pretty good aside from the level design, and I honestly don't really count Boom as it seems like a spin-off franchise. Boom was a mistake for the franchise, but it wasn't a mistake in the franchise. I'm just glad we're back to the normal Sonic style of things; Boom can continue being an actual good cartoon in the desolate wastelands of modern animation and I'm going to continue applauding it for that. I'm actually a little excited for Forces, too; it looks like it could be a good time.

Also I'd kind of like to see a new normal Sonic cartoon now that Boom was so great

Oh fuck yes I desperately wanna see some Sonic Advance love.

polite sage because I already bumped in my last post

Yeah I'd pay another $15 for Sunset Park: See Where The Fuck You're Going Edition

gee isn't it just the most coincidental thing that people loved sonic adventure 1 and 2 plenty until a few e-celebs start calling it total garbage? The timing is so very strange, gosh. Yeah they're far from perfect, but it's exaggerating greatly to call them bad.

Hmmmmmmmm

It's not like I don't love the Adventure games. I put hundreds of hours into them, and have bought them multiple times. But it's not what I wanted 3D Sonic to be.
The Sonic "game" I played the most was Sonic Jam, which included a short 3D segment. While I don't think it was very compelling as a prototype for a 3D Sonic game, it at least nailed the feel of the world and the art style. Something like Sonic X-Treme would have likewise been more in the spirit of the originals.
Adventure is a mess. The game is buggy. Walking around a city is odd. Humans are there, and you can talk to them. Adventure 2 is better; following a linear story from location to location is much more streamlined than walking around looking for zone entrances.
I'll even defend the Knuckles and the Tails segments of Adventure 2… well, the Knuckles levels at least.

The core issue is the feel of the game. 3D Sonic is mostly about holding forward and knowing when to jump + homing attack. It takes a lot of the skill out of it when I don't even have to time jumps. There's no real exploration.
What Adventure 1 & 2 got right is trying to hide items, encouraging a little exploration (although the options are limited) and providing the occasion alternate route… something that disappeared a few years later and would be almost unthinkable in today's "Boost Sonic" era. But the "game plays itself" concept started in the Adventure era, and I'll never forgive them for that.

They're fun, but not the direction the series should have gone with for 3D. And yet, somehow, they're still the best 3D Sonic games by far.

But they're not the masterpieces that came before them on the Genesis.

I just really want them to try once to get the pinball physics working in 3D. A game that's one half platformer, one half Super Monkey Ball, with levels layed out like skate parks with lots of slopes and ramps to interact with.

Out.

Took this long to call it out. You all need to need to fuck off back to the holes you crawled out of.

IKR. Flagrant misuse of an apostrophe.

Really makes you think…

That's not entirely true though. While some(mostly younger) people loved those games, an equally large amount of people hated the fact that only a third or less of those games was spent playing as Sonic, and even then he played very differently from what they'd come to love about the 2D games.

This. It makes more sense to continue doing 2D games than keep doing shitty 3D games.

The problem with that argument is retarded faggots will then bring up shit like sonic 4's poor reception and use that as proof that sonic fans don't know what they want

Then you just bring up Mania's incredibly good reception.

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This is something that was bothering me for a while, I liked playing SA2B but it felt really hollow and I couldn't put my finger on why until recently.

They recycle world geometry so damn much in 2 to stretch the levels out it becomes painful once you start to notice it. I just ruined this game for someone and I don't care
Take City Escape for example, there's… like 3 distinct downhill tiles, 3 obstacle course tunnels, the staircase rail, the wallrunning set piece in the middle, and that's it. And nearly all of the levels are like this. The only game I've seen recently with such blatant copypasta is Skyrim.
SA1 didn't have nearly as much repetition, but it paid for it by having loading zones and backtracking everywhere.

archive.is/7stW8

Is the autist in the beginning of the thread making the walls of text you, OP?

Wew

I do want that. At least like once every five years.

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SA1 has better level design. I played it after SA2 and I thought the whole game was better except for the Chao garden.

SA2 has significantly worse level design. There are practically no alternate paths at all, and a lot more of what is there is more automated. SA2 also benefits immensely from hidden collectables in the levels, the points system, and extra missions really encouraging you to explore and then master the levels.

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No one will ever know.

Succ

So should I wait for a crack or should I get the PS4 version?

Depends on whether or not you want mods