Quake Champions

They didn't learn from Battleborn's failure? Quake 3 had some of the best low poly babes of the time, what a fucking waste of potential.

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Obligatory reminder of how fucked nu-idsoftware is. QC is okay to play, but still if you have the skills CPMA is where the best gameplay is at.

Why does everyone play Q3A? It was the worst of all of them as it turned a great deathmatch twitch skill game into a dueling game all about a meta.

HOW WILL Holla Forums EVER RECOVER?

Well I can't he's wrong.
That being said what I want is absolutely not quake champions.

You know what, I would really like to play an updated version of battlefield 2142.

Quakelive had shit CPMA support, and most people went on some kind of path where they started out in CA because its the most watered down way to play quake, then moved up from there as they got better. Quake2/QW didnt have any investment from idsoft, so there is only the decaying infrastructure from the 90s left, like old forums, old players, while new players just hear about QL and start playing CA.

Now I think its valid that Q3A could have been better, but that's why VQ3 is dead and CPMA is alive…

He is completely wrong, this is the reaction of the actual quake community he denies the existence of: esreality.com/post/2872403/totalbiscut-talks-about-elitism-and-quake/

Low effort

This shit is going to fail like Lawbreakers did, it's trying so hard to appeal to two different audiences that are the exact opposite of each other.

Where were you when we needed niggas to play Xonotic and shit?

I already have Xonotic downloaded, the real question is where are you faggots right now?
I'm lonely.

How can anybody say this about a Quake game and still have any hope for it?

I hate to say it, but he is right on certain things? There really is a small audience for classic arena shooters and that is why most companies don't appeal to. When he goes on about how "you dont even support the game/play it" is because these games are usually dead with a couple of people who skill are vastly superior to your own, and for most people they get discouraged and quit. I get this way with RTS games but I am trying to get better Other people get bored and play other games.

He still has garbage taste though.

Think of it from a companies stand point

I hate phoneposting, look what happened to Wolfenstien

Not to protect QC or Totallibshit, but he has a point in that if you want to play Q3 - just play Q3.
What's the issue? QC is trash for edgy kids who think that Overwatch is too cartoony, it's not like you can't play proper arena shooters.

You have to pay for the steam beta even though it will be free "eventually".
If you already have downloaded it through the absolutely terrible bethesda launcher than you can still play for free.
Does anyone know if the game still takes 5 minutes or more to load into the main menu on an SSD?

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That 5th pic says it all, I hope it burns like stillborn and that gender neutral bathroom shit.

>He is completely wrong, this is the reaction of the actual quake community he denies the existence of: esreality.com/post/2872403/totalbiscut-talks-about-elitism-and-quake/

I mainly play Xonotic, but to add commentary to the rest of this.

Quake Live

Xonotic

Reflex Arena

The rest I haven't played.

Mapping is the current *thing* going on, but the thread is always watched for posts, and other people rush in when they see someone else join (ultimately that can lead to a deadlock of not-playing-and-instead-touching-up-a-map).

You've got your Lawbreakers mixed with my Unreal Tournament featuring Doom Guy.

What an interesting and appealing cast.
If I ever played this piece of shit, I'd probably just play BJ because he's the least offensive looking out of all of them

Clan Arena. Probably technically the first "arena shooter" albeit with no characters. Start with all weapons, full ammo, max health/armor. Loser gets sent to the back of the line. Ie, yes.

When was the last time an Arena shooter was made that wasn't made on a show strong budget with more than 4 devs and advertising behind it? We have UT 4, Reflex and Toxxik but guess what? All of these games were made slowly over years with not a cent spent on advertising the thing. People would buy and play an Arena shooter if a real development team created one. You can't blame people for not playing a game they never heard of or is vaporware. Tribes Ascend proved that people still want a fast paced style shooter.

Also no. Not every mod of an AFPS is an AFPS, else Team Fortress and every derivative would also be an AFPS.
Clan Arena is for fags who dont want to learn item timing or utilize resource management

This is always the point I make when people talk about AFPS being dead, and then they proceed to pick out indie games in genres that still get full fledged releases and full marketing to try to prove me wrong. I dont think id would lose money making a proper Quake title, they just didnt want to (and probably don't have the talent to anymore. I mean, Willits thought Quake was all about Rocket, LG and Railgun, and only 1 of those appears in every Quake game)

The game is nothing like overwatch and you're a fucking moron for even comparing the two as overwatch goes against every FPS fundamental while quake remains a solid shooter but one that'll be dead in the water. Even was someone who likes the game it'll be dead in the water because Arena shooters are modern day casual kryptonite and bethesda are literally shooting themselves in the foot by not having server browsers or any form of community support. There's nothing for low levels to do but go into TDM or DM and get slaughtered by people who are far above their skill level. It's great that every character has nuances to their movement and there's stuff to learn between them but this game is for no one.

youtube.com/watch?v=G6bGcbiU9W8

Maybe he's comparing them because id made the changes they did to cater to overcucks fans. It was a terrible idea to swap to uneven spawns and layer those on top of elements from prior Quakes- elements that are already too complicated for a lot of casuals to grasp right out of the gate. It was a terrible idea to have Duel be a 3 spawn character focused gamemode. It's a terrible idea to have a game about movement and dodging include mostly shitscan. It was a fucking awful idea to release the abortion that is Doom 2016's MP before trying to QC. That's not even getting into the more detailed portions of ids fuckups. That's just the general issues

id is releasing ghost town MP games because id doesn't have the capacity to let whatever talent they have shine, if such talent actually exists. Instead the reigns have been handed over to people who don't understand Quake or Doom, or the fundamental issue of new player falloff in AFPS games

Also, it's not a proper AFPS, fight me

Not sure how I feel about the little markers over enemies. In the past this "feature" would have been called a "wall-hack".

Why would I fight you? As I said you and the other user are fucking morons.

I don't even disagree with you on most points, in fact adding player abilities tied to a cooldown only further obfuscates the issue of skill levels and creates a greater complexity over an already complex game. Pretty much the same way that gems do in fighting games or GRD in UNIEL, because high skilled players will be able to take a greater advantage over these mechanics thus putting more of a personal requirement on the causals to get better.

However pretending like QC isn't a proper arena shooter despite having item pickups that can change the game, despite rail and rockets still being the bees knees, despite it having circle jumping, strafejumping, and every movement mechanics from Q1 -Q4 present in the game is fucking moronic. You're the sort of retard that gives bigger retards like TB a voice. Because instead of articulating or even coming up with a reasonable explanation for why the game is bad you just compare it to overwatch or say polarizing shit like "its not a proper arena shooter they did too many things differently." Basically you sound like every moron I see in free for all who says that the game is for no life losers. Congratulations.

no, it's really simple
AFPS = even starts, you get all your shit yourself
If I can start with a higher health value, or faster speed, or the ability to heal myself or see through walls, that isnt an even start. Its not about doing things differently, it's about WHAT is done differently

For instance, if you look at Quake 1 and Quake 3.

Quake 1 has a ridiculously overpowered LG that instagibs in water. It has no Railgun. The Rocket Launcher has amazing AOE and does 120 damage. You have a fuckton of air control and pick up speed really quickly, and only lose it going up stairs

In Quake 3, you have a railgun (100dmg on release, 80 damage in every reasonable mod) that allows instantaneous damage across the map. You move in straight lines with little to no air control. You now have a plethora of weapons that are closer in power than the weapons of Quake 1. Stairs are no longer the bane of your existence

There are more differences, these are merely a few. Changes are good, but changes that move outside of the parameters of the core thread that ties all titles of a subgenre together means that it's no longer fully part of that subgenre. UT doesnt have circle jumping, strafe jumping or bunnyhopping. Q3 doesnt have bunnyhopping. Q2 has a weird pseudo strafejump and doublejump. Q1 only has bunnyhopping. None of these things are a constant.

What is? Even fucking spawns and picking your shit up in the map itself. You cannot make a decision before a match that affects your performance in the match within the parameters of the game. In QC you can pick a character with better or worse stats for a given situation. You can pick a character with a better or worse ability for a given situation

This is what fags like you and TB dont understand. You think AFPS is about railguns and rocket jumps, but you never actually looked at the common thread between the different titles that make up the subgenre.
You accuse me of not giving a proper reason for it not being an AFPS, when it's on you to prove it is in the first place. Simply slapping Quake on it doesn't mean shit. Further, TB and the cucks in his end of this are full of shit regardless. TB doesnt really want to play AFPS, or else he'd play and promote AFPS instead of whining about how it's a dead fucking genre. Q3CPM/QL/Xonotic/QW/Reflex still have players, and could have more if someone with a large audience decided to dedicate some time to giving people a good introduction to the genre. Totalbiscuit is a disingenuous Blizzcuck faggot who is upset that he's not being validated for eating Bethshit games that have the id labels slapped on them and you're a dumb faggot for implying that this wasn't just an ego trip he had over 2 plebbit comments as per usual

Since you still don't get it and obviously haven't played the game let me spell this out for you as clear as you can understand.

When it comes down to arena shooters it is about managing your stack, your items, and your positioning and advantage on the map. This is true of any arena shooter and true of Quake champions. I hate to tell you the obvious but if you're going to try and say that QC duels do not come down to this and that your skill at aiming won't ultimately trump and make you succeed then you are not good enough at duels and know nothing about the games balance. If you are going to claim that QC is not an arena shooter because of your lack of understanding and headcanon you are a moron. You do not understand the balance of the game and your idea that this change takes away the core elements of what makes you succeed in a duel is why TB has a voice. He's looking for faggots like you who have little more than a gut reaction and then say stupid shit he can parrot and turn into another reason for why the genre is dead and then use simple justifications to diminish the actual communities to keep it ticking.

Maybe you should actually learn the game because the reason QC is bad doesn't have to do with the core elements that make up duel with the exception of the 3 character limit. As I said, you sound like someone who's fucking terrible at the game and just looking for simple reasons to shrug it off instead of identifying the real reasons why it's dead. Keep having your headcannon user, you're still a moron.

Try again, and this time dont be a fucking faggot

If stack and items spawning on the map are all that matter, then QTF is an Arena Shooter.
You wont argue that though because you know it's retarded
People have also argued (for some time now) that nuDoom is disqualified as well due to loadouts, and that the loadout option in QLive doesnt count, and none of you cunts cared to pipe up about how it was purely item control and stack then. It's only once we have a shiny new game with "muh heroes" that preset loadouts aren't an issue anymore. Actually argue the point or just admit that you suck cocks. This isn't about the quality of your new favourite toy, it's about clear categorization that makes sense

Bethesda has hit a new low.

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Quake champions isn't an Arena shooter

PSA: If Qcon continues according to schedule then duels will do so at 18:30 German time tomorrow.

Your whole argument relies on preemptively removing QC from the list of "arena shooters", then summing up qualities that "arena shooters" have based on this list from which you already removed QC - to prove that it doesn't belong on the list in the first place! It's circular. Of course you can make an arena FPS, add classes / "heroes" to it and it's still an arena FPS, you've just created a subgenre basically (assuming you're first to do this).

I don't like the champion concept one bit but to argue it somehow removes the game from the overarching genre is absurd. You do collect weapons on the map, you do spawn in random places (which btw have never been balanced in any arena shooter) and all the other things you expect of Quake and then additionally to all that there's the hero shit to make it even more confusing for newcomers. Surely this will bring in the masses.

If you want to talk about how Quake Champions is a step in the wrong direction why not be constructive and tell us what you wanted the game to be instead? I'll start:

I would expect from a worthy Quake successor fully functional teleporters à la Portal. See through, shoot through, simply a different kind of door that bends space. That would be the first bare minimum ingredient for a new entry in the Quake series to really wow me. That would be a step forward. UT doesn't do this either, no game does, so that evolutionary step is still ahead of us. I believe the next organically successful arena FPS will, among other things, feature proper teleporters that don't feel like a "retro" callback to 90s FPS.

of course I meant *today

Those are warpzones. Quake 4 and Xonotic have them.

Quake 4 didn't have see-through portals, did it? Does Xonotic??

Warpzones were a concept from Quake 4, but Xonotic definitely has them. The Xonotic maps with them are Bloodprison, AggressorX, Finalrage, and Hyperspace. Some are visible and some are invisible (end effect being a physically impossible or looping path).

Grabbed a quick video with one of the blatant "invisible ones" on Glowplant.

It's a distinction made before QC came out, and you'd know that if you read my post instead of being an absolute cockmongler

It eliminates games like QTF, which aren't AFPS' but still have armor/health pickups, which I also mentioned in my post. You're simply asserting they're the same thing when that's never been the case

Also Xonotic 100% has the mechanic you're talking about, as well as jumppads that affect projectiles, a shotgun altfire that pulls, and a minelayer+trigger combo. You can curve your rockets, and new players can start going fast with just jump+forward. You wouldn't need to be told any of this though if you actually played FPS' instead of getting buttblasted over QC's classification

played AFPS'*

I can't believe that the actual shooting aspect still feels worse than overwatch of all things. 1 in every 30 people has passable ping for a modern flick shooter. I get shot around corners by hitscan all of the time.

The new maps are okay, but the old ones still have massive dry zones for weapons. If you die once and get a bad spawn you're just dead again with no counter play.

The biggest difference between all of the characters is hitbox size and movement speeds. The abilities aren't very impactful and anyone bitching about those or whether you choose between a shitty machine gun or a shitty shotgun are retarded.

He's right in that if you aren't playing Xonotic then what the fuck are you doing?

Though his UT4 comment is fucking stupid considering it's not finished.

That's cool as hell for a singleplayer game but for multiplayer I think devs / modders should use this technique to build regular, clearly marked "teleporters".

Team Fortress is the perfect example, it obviously does belong in the genre of arena shooters and specifically in a subgenre with classes, just like QC. It's got all the things an AFPS has plus classes, it's a class-based arena shooter. You're simply bad at categorizing things, doesn't matter when you started doing it or why.

That's also on the list of things a genuine Quake successor would need, good call.

More arena FPS veteran derangement syndrome in action.

Xonotic sounds like a cool game but it has a tiny community and with its 2005 graphics it will never grow. FACT. They can add a million features, if they can't make the game look contemporary then it's already deader than Reflex.

Also adding too many alternate firemodes and shit like curving rockets you quickly run into the Unreal Tournament problem of multiple weapons being powerful in the same situation which ruins combat and makes weapon control unimportant.

This from the tryhard who wrote paragraphs on it and flips out at anyone who won't mistake some short-sighted opinions for the law. You must have nothing else going on in your life to get so religious about video games and this is coming from a guy who plays QL almost daily and watches esports. If I'm not hardcore enough then the entire genre is beyond resurrection for sure. I take this shit more seriously than most but even I can only shake my head when I meet zealots like you.

You're retarded

isn't a thing. This is just shit you're pulling out of your ass to hide the fact that you're completely retarded

Bitch please. Are you a graphics slut? Are you not interested in AFPS? What is YOUR excuse for not playing the game, you massive cockmongler? It's pretty easy to get a match started

I type fast. It takes me maybe 5-10 minutes to remind you that you're wrong and still havent addressed my actual point. Most of your shit ultimately boils down to
You know perfectly well that it makes sense to distinguish Quake/UT from class-based shit. They don't have the same focus, even if they share some mechanics and come from the same source. It's like saying the Mario Kart battle royale mode is now an Arena Shooter because you go fast and have pickups. It's not the same thing and you know it's not the same thing

This tells me everything I need to know

This autism is just as bad as people discussing what a rogue-like is.

Okay then.

I'm playing Quake Live. Why would I switch to a dead game that will stay dead?

Yes but not by arbitrarily deciding that the very vague term "arena FPS" must now mean "no classes". That's retarded. Arena FPS per default features no classes, and then you can add classes to that genre and get a subgenre called "class based arena FPS". If you take icecream and add some vegetables onto it is it no longer icecream because normal icecream doesn't feature vegetables? No, it's icecream with vegetables on top. It's still icecream.

youtube.com/watch?v=MYt-uZjKA04

This? Well, it's barely a shooter at all and it's not an FPS at all but you said "shooter" and you do shoot in this game and I guess you can miss if you're really bad. It appears you spawn randomly in an arena and then you collect weapons and shoot others. So yes, in principle this is an extremely bad arena shooter judged by its game mechanics alone. Can't wait for you to invent a new rule that says arena shooters can't feature characters with wheels or Mario can't be in one.

No need for further discussion

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Nice one

yeah you're hopelessly retarded.

Are you some kind of Bethesda shill? They've been pulling this line a fuckton.

Most official maps do warp zones in a very obvious way. They're extremely common.

Hardly more than tf2 is. Classes drive balance more so than maps, pickups, and weapon placement in that game, to a much greater extent than QC.

All of these games have servers with regular activity. QL was a nice entry point to AFPS but bethesda fucked that up as soon as they could.

Ah to be 12yo and fapping to that glorious pixelated ass and underboobs

from what I heard Quake champions has some shitty fucking netcode issues.