New Vegas Thread

Should I even bother?

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Do it and be amazed at how little you are actually needed because The Legion actually has their shit together

Son Legion is the best faction. I mean think about it, even if NCR weren't corrupt as fuck and stretching themselves too thin, Democracy sure as fuck isn't going to save the wasteland. Fuck Democracy barely functions in our fully developed world, much less a wasteland with fucking death claws. Ceasar's way is the only way the world will ever make a path back to civilization.

This user knows what's up. NCR will bleed the wasteland dry, House will treat New Vegas and the mojave like its own little snowglobe while the rest of the wasteland falls apart, while The Legion will bring unity, stability and safety


Yes, in its current form, The Legion would fall apart, however Caesar was never intending the Legion to be a long ruling faction, but an antithesis to the NCR that will form a synthesis with it after conquering it, both the legion and NCR will be gone and in its place a proper military dictatorship with a senate and everything will be established.

Every thread.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of NCR failing. By the way I'm not even going to bother reading that.

I'm a mr. House fag and they are right. Caesar understands the nature of the wastelanders better than mr. House himself. The game says clearly that the legion did a better job than the ncr. Mr. House can't and doesn't want to rule outside the mojave.

I would have loved to do a legion run if it had been fleshed out a little more.

mark > cobalt

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I wouldn't. Legion is unfulfilling if you like care about plot in any way, shape, or form. They're really retarded. NCR is more interesting, even for all the problems they have.

Also who the fuck gives a shit about achievements on Steam?

Not really but this a shitbait thread anyway.

NCR did nothing wrong

>>>Holla Forums

The high and mighty Legion reduced to nothing by a sniper and one man with a sledgehammer. Caesar cried like a little bitch by the way when I killed his boytoy.

And your English teacher cried when you made that post.

And your mother cried when I benised her venis :^)))

Notice the Legion kiddies attempt at a rebuttal. Trying to downplay his chronic and severe asspain (good luck if you're a Legionfag lol) by highlighting grammatical errors.

You clearly never met her. Think babushka on roids.

You've only played 1/4 of the game, and the worst part at that. Any other choice is better than ncr

She couldn't chop this wood with one hand, that third war was the night my beenwenis went on a rampage in her butthole, and she learned to cuss from my dirty talk :^)))))))))))

She drinks and smokes to forget the Night of Long Dongs 8============D

Normally don't, but given I have everything else and haven't done Legion yet figured I'd ask.

I'm sure it'd be a match made in heaven.


Independent ending is the only ending.

Legionfags. Not even once.

What is everyone laughing at? What's she saying?

"Heil Hitler"

Are you deaf?

Threadly reminder that House and Legion are the only good factions and that (((NCR and Independents))) should go fuck themselves.

This is poor bait and you should feel bad.

LEGIONFAGS GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEE

What, no one ever done a "Kill everything" playthrough?

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Isn't that what that Dust mod is for?

I did, it's fun


No.

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ceaser isn't going to live forever and without him the ncr would technically be a better option.

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Fun fact: this Latuff guy is a literal cuck nowadays.

And that's if it's the iconic PM and not one of the Chinese, Hungarian, Czech, rare caliber or whatever knockoff variant.

I'm always amazed people side with the NCR time and time again when the developers basically outright tell you the NCR is a corrupt, inefficient mess that's getting steamrolled by the Legion largely though sheer incompetence. Literally any faction is better than the NCR and the only reason people jerk off the People's Republic of Commiefornia is the rangers are cool.

House > Legion > NCR > Yes Man

Fuck off, Chris Avellone, why don't you go jerk off to Ulysses again.

In all fairness I don't think we ever had a NV thread without goon shitposting.

I'm glad the riot gear in LR wasn't reputation bound. It looks far too good.


Colour me surprised

Color me surprised.

I can see why. He's quite a catch with that good taste of his.
Reminder that House is subjectively the best faction.

Where did you get that?

Oh yeah, catch me taking some cumbrained Legionfag incels' retarded opinions completely seriously.

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is it really that bad? Do you have sarsaparilla? is it good?

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The "progress" that has been made is really just old world tech providing temporary solutions. The NCR achieves some semblance of "Self sufficiency" but even then its usually just piggybacking off of things other people have done (The NCR sharecrop was only accomplishable because House made New Vegas some semblance of "safe) and even then, too far outside their command centers tend to be starved for supplies. Meanwhile, The Legion starts with self sufficiency and works up from there. You dont need to worry about stimpacks when everyone knows how to make healing powder. You wont be running low on ammunition anytime soon if your lower ranks are all skilled with simple melee weapons that they take religiously good care of. I always compare Camp Forelorn hope to Nelson. Camp Forelorn hope is comparatively only a stones throw away from several major outposts yet struggle fighting against the Legion forces at Nelson, who are essentially just waiting on orders to move from a camp that is only accessible via a four hour boat ride.

And thats only when taking their military arm into account. Chems aside, places ruled by the legion tend to go about their business normally, albeit safer and with less leeway for bullshit.

As someone who's lived in Cuckifornia I wouldnt trust them to rule a fucking sandbox let alone the wasteland

Wait for CalExit. Then, if they try that shit again, it's license to invade and subjugate the degenerates.

I was about to point out it's an old mod not found on nexus. But I checked out the blog by the guy who makes it, and it was recently updated. Enjoy bunsaki.wordpress.com

I think it's because of their presence/roots in Fallout 1 and 2. Same reason why people still like the Brotherhood.

Of Choursh
Basically every grocery store carries Sarsaparilla. Kind of expensive though.
It's pretty good, you might be disappointed how similar it is to Root Beer though. I personally prefer Birch beer.
Haggen bought a lot of stores here a year ago that crashed and burned fairly quickly. Made me sad because it was the only place selling Moxie.

It also explicitly says (Oliver in the NCR ending) that all the NCR's problems can be fixed by wandering tribals and postmen.

All factions are shit. None of them are good. You should strive to succeed by yourself in the Wasteland, not hold yourself to idealists like the NCR, Mr House, The Legion and the Forgetables.

I just don't see a future with the legion. They're too reliant on leaders. I live in a post Communist country and I know what the Legion leadership leads to. Plus the world isn't as fucked post Fallout 2. If there's factions fighting over ideologies, things are going better.

Mr. House is also a better alternative since he is in a completely different position from both the NCR and the Legion. Then there's also the Yes Man option which is basically even further going down democracy ville.

Then there's the canibal option where you gotta go after the faction leaders and have a nice meal with them.

I dunno, there's a little for everyone.

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That should be Tactical Jaggies Gear MAX.

This isn't even possible in the main storyline. Even if you choose the so-called "Independent" path, you're still working with a robot programmed by someone else who does most of the seizing control of the Strip for you.

user I don't see The King in your picture


Don't blame me for jaggies. That's the authors picture. In game it's highly detailed

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It would make a nice mod

House will save you.

Oh shit, my nigga. I wish I could get that somewhere besides fucking Cracker Barrel on the east coast. Red Rock Ginger Ale is also godlike.

>Not White Glove Society
Have some taste user

I don't really see how the Yes Man route is democratic. You elect yourself to be the leader of New Vegas with an army of robots. It gives you the option to help them or slaughter them, but once you are gone who is supposed to take command and keep relations with everyone?

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this game is stupidly overrated

I make them return to canibalism every time just for shits and gigs. Then procede to feed them Veronica

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What is your favurite DLC?

I find this a difficult choice. They're all pretty sweet, even GRA.

I know OWB is shit, the rest are tied for being good at different things

Let's stop treating yesman as a legit ending please. It's just a stupid gimmick.

Probably Dead Money or Honest Hearts
OWB was just too tedieus with all the bullet sponges enemies (enemies scalled with player lvl so if you started at high lvl you had lots of bulletsponges)
And Long some road with i just find boring

I liked Dead Money

I see the yes man option as that because of how the game structures itself around you, the courier. The courier is a character that isn't a part of a specific faction and rather choses their own path through the game. Even if they get the ability to control things, that won't go on forever, but rather than with the options of the NCR or the Legion where things get homogenized, here factions are still going to remain widely in the ability to battle and decide their own fates. This combined with the fact that New Vegas has its own local factions that would also battle for things makes it less likely for the same monopoly over power to happen, compared to other choices. That's how I see it as a potential bigger democracy than all other choices. This could be good or bad. But perhaps the courier can go with the Yes Man option with the intention of making everything exactly under their preference.

Just my opinion though.

Thanks user!

>OWB was just too tedieus with all the bullet sponges enemies (enemies scalled with player lvl so if you started at high lvl you had lots of bulletsponges)

Fallout California is capitalist as fuck and so is the real one.

OWB was a fantastic DLC

I like the Lonesome Road the most since it leaves a focus onto the courier rather than many other characters. Plus I like the desolate desperate condition of everything in there. Second has to be Dead Money though. I need that Holorifle.

Maybe with a mod to skip all the retarded story and dialogues

The OWB enemies are tedious at any level, especially scorpions and nightstalkers. And energy weapons builds don't make it any better, if anything melee weapons are the best for OWB because of the proton inversal axe and antenna.

Dead money. Did it twice this month. there's something about the story and atmosphere that makes it so satisfying to play.

A lot of the dlcs were like that. If you went to Honest Hearts high lvl those fucking tribals could tank a 50cal round through the head.

Do you at least use things like AP rounds?

Yeah if I have any. Their toughness doesn't really bother me though.

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This image alone made me excited for OWB. It is the best of the DLC's New Vegas has to offer. It goes straight to to roots of what Fallout is about.

not even once.

Anyways how does Fallout 4 compare to New Vegas? Fallout 3 was boring as shit but normalfags keep telling me 4 is good.

TUNNEL SNAKES RULE

for real nigger?

It's more of Fallout 3

The combat is pretty good, weapon customization is pretty good, some of the environments are pretty good and the world overall is more vertical. (Like the game has elevators. There's parts of the map where you can scale a skyscraper and appear on the roof of it for instance). I liked being able to customize power armor and swap out different armor pieces and colors. And when you were in power armor it's the closest thing to a first person shooter 40k game that isn't shovelware like Space Hulk deathwing.

However the rpg elements were severely dumbed down, conversation was really really dumbed down. It's one of those games that could theoretically be good if you just replaced the entire storyline and npcs to it. Much like Fallout 3.

Fallout 3 is just a boring and mediocre game. Fallout 4 is a hot pile of shit with the Sims tacked on. Avoid it like the plague.

Ah well. Maybe they'll let Obsidian do something good with it again.

Truth, the combat is decent and being able to melee with your guns is nice. Fallout still remains a poor FPS though.
The "customization" is fucking awful and an excuse for Bethesda to only include a handful of weapons that largely use the same parts
I thought it was kind of stupid and gimmicky in the same way subway tunnels in 3 were
The armor customization is just a slightly better version of the weapon one with all the same flaws.

Face it, Fallout 4 is neither a very good FPS, or RPG.

Obsidian is dead now son.

I liked being able to remove the scope of the sniper rifle and shorten the barrel sue me

I'm not saying it's particularly good. I'm just saying it was an alright base to what could've been a much better game. It's why I'm kind of curious if a modding team could just make a TC mod that completely replaces the world of the game, overhauls the dialogue and stats and just makes it better

Are they? Damn, I really have not kept up with this shit

There was a New-Vegas-in-4 recreation project that was going for a while.

It was scrapped and most of the aspies working on it moved to the competeing 3-in-4 recreation.

ska-ba-da-ba-du-bip gimme that fucking chip

Every day, I'm forced to add to my list of reasons for nuclear war to happen.

Why does that pic remind me of Vampire Hunter D?

Jesus fucking Christ nigger what are you doing?

Why are they doing remakes at all? It’s the same engine.

He's not calling them commies he's saying that a cult of personality around a leader can fuck you pretty hard. I disagree though, once Caesar dies I feel Vulpes will eliminate Lanius eventually and start running the show.

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LOL

I want Holla Forums to leave and stay leave.

I'm always amazed people allow Muh Profligate meme blind them to the obvious and blatant downside of the Legion. I mean the NCR is far from perfect but if you can see that then your inability to see how the Legion is worse is boarderlining memeing or blind fanboyism.

And how exactly is the legion worse? And if you want to see some posts that explain how they see the Legion as superior maybe you should actually try reading and replying to the thread.

All if the factions in the game are poorly written, psychopath run is the only good ending.

Extremely high-tech Legion technology (pic related) prevents the dissolution of Caesar's rule by blocking out all troublesome degeneracy.

And don't forget your oculi caecorum! These hyper-advanced Legion eyewear shield your eyes from the harmful rays of the sun and stop degenerates from perverting your perception of reality .

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Legionfags. Not even once.

This is a wannabe bethfag thread nigger, what were you expecting?

You know the guy who made that image you posted was a fagot who got busted grooming an underage boy.

soundcloud.com/decimu/the-third-jimpact
imgur.com/a/x4uSX

>>>/TRS/

Damn, you sure blew him out of the water with those white-hot arguments.

Shoo, fag.

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Everytime.
Why do we still have New Vegas threads again?

I'm not trying to argue with you, you autistic fuck. I made a joke.

Every time.

Why do we have Anons again? :^)

Correct.
We shouldn't so everyone in this thread can be banned already because I'd argue you're all just the same people on every New Vegas thread.

I'm in full agreement with this gentleman. We should be discussing recent masterpieces like Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Why even bother discussing inferior games at all?

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Something is strange about this post and I can't my pre-ord– I mean, I can't place my finger on it.

Todd jokes aside justify why any Fallout game has ever been good.
I'll wait.
t.Not Todd.

It just works.

New Begas just entirely shits the bed faction wise.
You can beat it in time doing the only worthwhile stuff.
Devs giving a shit doesn't mean the best.

Shit-tier bait even by your already low post standards. That's the ultimate goal-post shifting.

Wew lad you're underage

1 had a steampuk aesthetic more than anything, with industrial elements, and had pinches of 50's thrown in.
You want 50's, 3 and 4 spam the music all the time and have 50's inspired shit more than the rest Todd shit is 50's shit.

The Legion is worse in a bunch of ways. Before going into depth I should mention that both factions, Legion and NCR, are doomed to collapse. NCR will fall apart due to it being managed by bloated bureaucracy that's stretched too far and most of its leaders and people of interest being corrupt and/or inefficient in some way. Destined to fail. But, most importantly, it has instill the positive values of developed Nations that its breakaway states will come from. NCR is constructive. They do build infrastructure, the help people, establish farms, schools, hospitals, and garrisons to protect people. These are positive traits for a functioning civilization.

The Legion doesn't do that. From its inception it hasn't really endeavored to build and improve quality of life. It started off as a tribe of morons that became strong due to Caesar teaching them the basics of warfare. Literally, their method of fighting was limited to skirmishes without conquest and Caesar taught them how to conquer. They were so amazed by his ability to kill a lot of people and take their stuff and women forever that they made him their leader. He only taught them the basics of combat, tactics, and basic gun use for those that got guns. These tribals didn't have much in the way of quality of life, they weren't too different from the tribals you see in Honest Hearts. He didn't give too much of the toss about building over what he conquered, and forced loyalty onto the people he beat (those who didn't were enslaved or brutalized.) All of Caesars infrastructure comes from preexisting settlements who only escape his ire if they pay tribute. There's not much of an attempt to build any further infrastructure between these points and make them more efficient, so the civilian portion his empire is stuck at individual settlement level. This means there's no improvement.

The Legion is, at its core, a military dictatorship. And what is it their main function? Well for the most part all they really do is invade and take over what other people have built. Their primary method of recruitment is to threaten people with crucifixion if they don't comply. What is their average foe? Well it's tribal groups. They've never engaged with a major foe before, they used basic tactics to overwhelm tribe after tribe of even more basic foes. Their population, farms, and army has come from the "eighty-six tribes" they've beaten and absorbed. Tribes. Tribals. This is not that big of an accomplishment, as most Tribals don't even have any guns. Which brings me onto the subject of guns, and infrastructure again. The Legion isn't really building anything. This isn't just limited to not build roads, hospitals, pony expresses, and what have you. The Legion is one of the few groups that needs to really scavenge their firearms because they sure as shit aren't making them or the bullets to fire. NCR is unbelievably larger and has developed the infrastructure to build actual armour and uniforms, bullets, and firearms. Sure, they may be spread thin and are relying on mostly untrained volunteers in New Vegas but the fact that they have each one in uniform, equipped, and rationed as per a standard (that is higher than the Legion) should be evidence enough of their infrastructure. The Legion, you might thing, as has a uniform, equipment, and rations standard too, but compare the quality. They hold to the ideology that technology makes people weak and as such most Legionaries use throwing spears and machetes. Most, because they understand the value of having firearms and allow their most elite of their elite carry a firearm each. As for their uniform, well, it's not the best when compared to NCR armour (its literally pre-War football gear). The most advanced their armour gets is pieces of Power Armour that, given that they don't know how to get that shit working, they've ripped off and slapped onto the armour of their more elite warriors rather pathetically. So far as Legion rationing goes, well, it could be better. They haven't spent the time that NCR would've to upgrade their farms and probably can't even into crop rotation so I doubt it's as varied or as tasty as NCR rations. Also their manpower is reliant on taking conscripts and beaten tribal warriors, which has a limited supply when most of your forces are focused towards fighting the NCR. I'd also like to point out that they do use child soldiers in their forces, that's how lacking they are in a recruitable population at this point.

On that note, the western front is a joke for the Legion. Their first assault relied on surprise to get as far as they did, and their inability to comprehend even the most basic of military tactics from a developed military that isn't a group of tribals with clubs meant that any victory they gained was lost immediately. Hell their main goal for taking Hoover Dam was that it was a vital crossing, not because it was vital to producing electricity. So spectacularly did they fail that Caesar himself had to come on down to prevent the entirely of his western front from collapsing. Their battle tactics consist of sending in their weakest and most poorly equipped soldiers first to wear down their enemies before sending in the Legionaries to drive home the final punch. This is less advanced than WW1 tactics because at least the soldiers in WW1 all had guns. But yeah sending in people with throwing spears against machine guns and automatic rifles is as effective as you'd imagine it was. The Legion has never had to fight against an actual enemy since it was still called the Blackfoot tribe, and it shows.

Now Caesars Legion is held together by him and him alone. Coupled with his need to rule everything without a desire to solidify that rule creates issues that we've seen in the past, namely with Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan. They could conquer all they want but when they die, what they did starts to unravel. People are loyal to one person in a cult of personality, and when that person dies there's a scramble for power that always ensues. Whether its the people who commanded on his behalf, his Legates, thinking they should be top dog (a la Alexander) or the people who made up what little infrastructure they had not having the iconic evil they feared leading his forces anymore and start pushing away in rebellion (a la Genghis Khan), whatever Caesar has built will come unraveling when he dies. He doesn't even have a suitable heir (not that it matters, heirs don't tend to last long around power hungry adults if you know your history). So if the Legion comes undone, which it will with or without Legion victory in New Vegas, and the NCR is going to come undone with or without victory in New Vegas, what does it matter which side wins?

Well it comes down to culture. The end game of the post-apocalypse is to rebuild. Literally what everyone's trying to do. So which group is going to leave the remnants that will be more likely to succeed in reestablishing a permanent civilization? NCR collapses they'll look to themselves for the failure, they'll understand that over-extension and corruption is to blame and the people who have enough drive to become leaders in the wake of its collapse or civil war will try their best to avoid those same mistakes, through no-doubt a variety of means. But the important thing is that the NCR will collapse due to things that people know is bad, and their successor groups will come from a culture that at least tried steadily to improve quality of life and bring back stability to the wasteland. Caesars Legion, on the other hand, is, in essence, one giant Raider gang. When it collapses, those who try to take up its reigns will do what the Legion itself did; conquer smaller groups, ie the other splinters of Caesars Legion.

When push comes to shove NCR sucks because politicians and over extension, Legion sucks because its fundamentally backwards is a world that is still fundamentally forwards. Larping in the wasteland only works when you're fighting groups that a sub-larping equipment. What would the Legion do against the Brotherhood of Steel and a band of Power Armoured soldiers with laser guns? You think throwing spears, machetes, or the 2-3 anti-material rifles they have per hundred soldiers is going to do anything against Liberty Prime? What do you think machete child soldiers are going to do against core NCR forces that aren't overstretched, are trained, and aren't basic volunteers?

Legion is unsustainable and its culture isn't going to produce a stable world, its going to reduce everything back down to chiefdom's and kingdoms without modern infrastructure, and living without modern technology is a communistic way of life and better dead than red is only going to take people back to the days where death, murder, and violence were more prominent than ever and there's literally no reason for it. Rome was corrupt as hell, ancient civilizations were too. I don't think people in the aftermath are going to be interested in using weapons of mass destruction ever again so I don't see why what the Legion hopes to achieve in the long run is something to praise. You live in a world with radscorpions, mirelurks, and yao gui; you're going to need armour piercing rounds to survive. NCR has its flaws but fucking hell Legion is so much fucking worse.

Wow, it'a almost like imageboards are centered around user-driven discussion.

End rant, I guess. It may not be as coherent as it oughta be but thems my thoughts as to why Legion sucks NCR's balls. I really need to sit down and put my thoughts into a more comprehensive format. Oh well.

Ok go make a thread praising Michael Bay's Transformers unironically on Holla Forums

Not according to basically every non-NCR aligned NPC. Basically everything Obsidian wrote about then is their territory is all but devoid of threats and all the nom-Legion people living within it are essentially left alone. The Legion is more like a massive army than a civilisation which is probably what the west needs given the fact that the NCR can barely deal with the Jackals now and the fiends are literally camped outside of Vegas and Mccarran.

Do you actually know what steam power is?

A civilization can build an army, there have historically been very few armies that could build a civilization.

You can't fool me with that wall of text. You just want to fuck NCR soldiers.

Steampunk is more from scratch as opposed to solid, cold metal covering the machine. Fallout 1 had that element to it.

Shit argument when the NCR seems to fail at that even with a contract with the gun runners and a massive industrial complex. They're getting their shit kicked in by guys in skirts armed with machetes made out of car metal because they spend their lives training rather than getting four weeks training and some armour.
He makes it fairly clear the Legion is a means to an end to unify the wastes and not his endgoal for civilisation unlike the NCR.

Literally why do you think Steampunk is called what it is?

Holy shit mate you're fucking retarded.

That's because Chris Avellone hates the NCR for no good reason and did a major character assassination on them, not because they're legitimately failing against literal cosplayers.

Ok I think we're misinterpreting each other.
Cold cut post modern industrial work is different from steampunk which is built from scratch.
It's something different from the two.

Did Avellon bang your mum or something? You seem to have issues with him.

Steampunk is not built from scratch you spaz. It's literal steampower.

Shit, you got me.
You have to admit the deteriorated exposed look of the original two games did seem more like steampunk because all the machinery was out for everyone to see.

That's why House is superior.
How is a squad of knuckle-draggers from bumfuck California going to fight against fully upgraded Securitrons? With 5.56? Don't make me laugh. A common misconception is that House only cares about the Strip. This is false. We know from the ending that House is favorable to Goodsprings and a few other communities. This is because he realizes that the Strip runs on Tourism, and tourists do not come to a place where they could get sodomized by raiders or eaten by Deathclaws. So as soon as his machines ensure his complete hold on the Dam, they go out into the Mohave to ensure that no one violates the NAP on House land.

He's not bad though

Mr. House is objectively the best ending to be honest, while killing him also seems like a good idea, having Mr. House around lets you relax and not have to worry about managing New Vegas.

You ignored everything I wrote and if you had bothered to read it you'd know why the Legion being an army instead of a civilization is a problem and why NCR is having difficulties within New Vegas. Given that you have some form of ADHD and can't handle reading I'll try to summarize it in smaller sentences for you:
There. Oversimplified, but hopefully you're thick head will understand it.


House is just an even shittier Proto-Legion. Using tribal fucks to build a powerbase so he can activate an army of robots that were designed to be little more than bodyguards and not designed from a hardware perspective to fight against military-grade equipment. While House is more developed than Legion it still has many of the same trappings. Antiquated soldiers that aren't going to develop a culture that will flourish in the wasteland or benefit human civilization. Best option for House is trying to make a autonomous state within NCR. Hell they're already reliant on the NCR for electricity, food, and water and their army of bodyguards aren't going to last long against an developed military, especially one like the NCR that has air support and military vehicle support to back it up. Probably artillery support as well.

That's probably because the AMR isn't actually a weapon for face to face combat. It's there for blasting someone in the face with explosive/AP rounds and using that sneak crit to kill the biggest threat in the game. A riot shotgun with pulse slugs or magnum buck is considerably better at killing robot scorpions, to say nothing of a melee build, which doesn't care about bullet sponges.


There's the continued assumption that Caesar will actually succeed in reversing everything he has built up and transitioning the legion into an actual civilization. This is despite him putting next to no effort into it before, with no trial cases of it. Then there's the question of succession. Caesar's next two subordinates are a giant masked retard who definitely isn't suited to running a contubernium, let alone an empire. You have Vulpes, an (((intelligence))) officer who's certainly unpopular with the entire rest of the upper command, and only kept in check by Caesar's will. That adds up to the exact same succession crisis Alexander had, and there's next to no chance of the legion not balkanizing immediately after Caesar bites it. At least when the NCR falls apart, it'll leave developed infrastructure for the emerging city-states to use.


Hope House likes eating artillery shells, because he has no ability for force projection worth a shit, like any other faction, but also no other means of long-ranged offense. It actually raises the question of why neither legion nor NCR have made small tube mortars before, let alone primitive tube artillery. They're not beyond Gun Runner production ability, and are exponentially better than small arms engagements for the sort of thing they do.

They do literally all of that (poorly I might add, their infrastructure is shit, they help close to no one, everyone working their farms hates their lives, the "NCR" hospitals are all run by the Followers and they can't even protect people from the fiends.) by force. Which you would know if you'd bothered to talk to people. The NCR is there to "help" you regardless of if you want to or not while actively fucking over the Followers.
And yet everyone in their territory is far safer and doesn't have to worry about their farm getting burned down by drugged up fiends because the Legion crucifies people for doing that.
And the NCR started off as that one group of Jews that spent their time Jewing everyone around them rather than becoming raiders like the rest of their vault.
Except you forget this is the exact tactic the NCR used quite successfully against the Brotherhood of Steel and is currently being used to kick the shit out of the NCR by both the Fiends and the Legion.
Wrong, their primary method of recruitment is conquering other tribals and their high birth rate. It's documented they don't think subjects of the Legion are true members of the Legion and are largely left alone by them. Most of the people living with in their territory consider Caesar rather benevolent since he leaves them to their own devices and keeps raides from skullfucking them and their families unlike the NCR.
Except the NCR. Who only barely held them off by blowing up all of Boulder City
I'd like to remind you your precious NCR had their ass saved by a tribal.
The Legion doesn't need to build guns though. Dialogue indicates they trade for a lot of weapons with caravans alongside scavenging which would make perfect sense given their economy being so strong the casinos and traders will all accept Legion money.
Not an argument. You can't use that as a point when
The quality doesn't matter when you're making sound like the Legion has no standardization system. Despite uniformity and cultural assimilation being their main goals. Also, the NCR armor is literally a leather breastplate over fatigues provided by the (((Crimson Caravan))). Really blows away that leater football gear
They must have a point since Legionaires are known for being some of the toughest fighters in the wasteland. Even the Khans think they're scary in close combat.
Congrats, you've just described NCR salvaged Power armor.

You forget all Legionaires have extensive survival training and know how to scavange and hunt for food on top of having a supply chain at their camps. I doubt they care much for menu variation or taste considering they're all slaves.
Holy shit, nigger. Did you actually read any of the Legion lore. Their whole advantage over the NCR is numbers and training. They don't use conscripts they literally train from the time they're children if they didn't already grow up a hardened tribal. What did you think those kids at the Fort were doing exactly?
I'll spoonfeed you since it's obvious you didn't talk to any NPC outside of the mainquest.
fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar's_Legion_military_hierarchy

Wow, you basically just described the exact tactics the NCR has always used to defeat the Brotherhood of Steel and is currently getting the shit kicked out of them by. Real shit tactics there.
Since you can kill Caesar in game we know exactly what happens. Lanius holds the whole thing together through sheer force of will. The problem with that is Lanius is an efficient and brutal military tactician who probably doesn't even realize the Legion was intended as a tool to construct a working civilization and thinks it's the intended result. If Caesar dies the continued success of the Legion relies entirely on Vulpes successfully manipulating Lanius.
Probably not the guys already suffering from the problems that led to the resource wars and the resulting nuclear hellfire.
They're literally copying people who had the exact same issues they are, the NCR won't learn shit.
Man, the NCR has a real leg up.

Pretty sure they suck because their economy is in the toilet and all the locals in the Mojave hate them. Probably because they care so little about the locals they let the Fiends, Jackals, Vipers, and Khans rape and pillage them to their hearts content, flood their cities with refugees, steal their resources, and import a bunch of criminals to do manual labor and then fuck around when they escape and start attacking more locals.
Probably the same exact thing the NCR did at Helios One and every conflict with the Brotherhood. Drown them in bodies because the Brotherhood has numbers and incest issues. This is exactly what the Legion does to the Brotherhood in their ending by the way.
If we're cherry-picking the East Coast Brotherhood, ignoring the fact that they're on the opposite end of the country and even expanding into the Commonwealth is straining for them, Even in Fallout 4 we see the Brotherhood struggling with numbers and force projection. I do think the Legion could defeat them simply because they not only have vast numbers, but they have pretty good equipment in the higher ranks. They seem to have no issues obtaining Anti-Material rifles, super sledges, ballistic fists, thermic lances, C-4, and seem to have steady access to 12.7mm weapons and ammo. They're also one of the few factions in the wasteland with an Artillery piece after Dale sells them a Howitzer.
They're currently fighting core NCR forces you chucklefuck. What do you think Veteran rangers and NCR heavy troopers are?
Damn, that really destroys the Legion despite being almost completely corruption free. How's that Brahmin Baron dick taste by the way?
You know, aside from the functioning economy, complete safety in their territory, Military built entirely on experience rather than ass kissing and attempting to adept to the new world rather than try and make it like it was.

How will he ever recover?
Alright, that's it. You are a complete irredeemable faggot. House has a massive army that he can continually rebuild without having to conscript some poor farm kids, he has actual access to artillery, and all of his robots are equipped with rockets once they're upgraded. House is comfy as fuck because he knows the NCR can't afford to fight him and if they did they would be fuck six ways from Sunday with basically no gain. They're forced to sit around and get Jewed by an ancap mummy.

...

Not quite

Same

No they don't. The closest they get to building infrastructure is building crosses and forts. They're not investing in local administration, transport, establishing new farms, hospitals, schools, etc. The kinds of things that are needed for a functional society. NCR does this, making them a better civilization and one that's more stable than the Legion.

You're forgetting the Legion is the threat to those within Legion territory. Don't comply in any way and they will burn you and your farm down to send a message. When the Legion falls its successor groups are going to pillage the fuck out of those communities, too.

Muh Joos is a pathetic attempt to demonize the NCR. It's not an argument and it makes you look stupid. And what's the point you're trying to make? The NCR decided to not be murderous faggots and the Legion did? You're only proving me right.

Because it fit the situation and worked. They're adaptable, they have tactics outside of that because that's what a modern military does. Legion uses the same shit over and over and over again because they didn't need anything complex when fighting retarded tribes.

Not really. Legion is hunkered down and making no gainz, and Fiends aren't exactly a large group picking large targets. NCR controls more territory, through willingness of those within the territories, and is vastly more advanced than either Fiends and Legion.

Maybe but they still recruit from non-tribals through fear and conscription. You don't get a choice to say no to Legion recruitment. And that high birth rate mustn't mean much if they need to use child soldiers.

Who stopped them dead in their tracts and caused Caesar himself to come down to hold the line. The high command of the NCR hasn't popped down to take complete control of the Caesarian front. The Legion is incompetent in the face of a more intelligent force. Don't forget NCR sent the entire Legion force running beyond the damn they secured they were so decimated and had such shattered moral. No wonder Caesar had to help is army of dumb larpers.

I'd like to remind you that tribal adapted to fight in the modern tech world and used firearms and modern technology.

Yes they do. You can't take over a major with spears when everyone else has gatling guns and fully automatic rifles. Their inability to adapt to a modern force, and their unwillingness to adapt to modern equipment, gets them killed in droves.

I never said they had no standardization, I said theirs is of inferior quality. And yes actually, quality would matter. Scavenged materials are not as good a purpose manufactured materials.

Congratulations. Close combat doesn't matter when you're charging a nest of machine guns and get torn to shreds, so you have to send in your firearm equipped elites to finish the job, which is standard battle tactic within the legion.

No. Legion tears off singular armour plates. NCR keeps the infrastructure of the armour intact because they know even unpowered it's great and they can power it only if they get a power core and don't rip it apart.

Because they need too. NCR doesn't need to go hobo to survive.

Do you think those children have a chance to say no? They conscripted from birth. That's still a conscript, and a child soldier. NCR doesn't have to train people from birth to fight and they're one on one better soldiers than Legion. All that tells me is that Legion tribes must be withered in some way if all that training doesn't make them any more superior than an NCR trooper.

That tactic is entirely viable when you're a modern military with modern weapons. They've got armour, firearms, armoured support, air support, and artillery support. Legion just has waves of machete and spear equipped men. One can use that tactic without qualm because that tactic requires combined arms and modern equipment to work. Legion doesn't have that, thus making it a fucking terrible tactic to use for them.

In the immediate aftermath when the Legion is in revenge mode.
Their sole tactic is waves of men using spears. That is not an efficient use of what little supplies you have.
No, the Legion was held together by Caesar's cult of personality. Without him it will fall apart. Lanius and Vulpes may control one of the more powerful factions in the aftermath of the collapse, but they aren't going to keep it together.

Okay.

If you don't think anyone's learned anything from the apocalypse on what not to do then you're only showed your stupidity. They're not copying anything other than general democracy.

Yes, they do. They are held together by willingness to comply. Anyone who has to crucify someone to prove they're in charge doesn't deserve to be in charge, and is a weak leader.

Maybe, but at least they have an economy. Caesar just takes what he wants. It doesn't inspire loyalty. Plus the logistics of having an economy is a sign of progress.
That's House's problem. They signed an agreement that House rules over House's affairs. And again, they're overstretched in the area. They accept this themselves and wish they could do more, and are doing the best with what they had. What would Legion do? Kill a few of them then put them in Legion armour and let them continue the murder and rape in Caesar's name instead? Such an improvement.

You didn't actually read that post you stupid faggot.

Again, Legion using this tactic is retarded and NCR using this tactic is logical. NCR is equipped properly to make use of this tactic. Spamming well equipped infantry with rifles, supporting fire, and modern military tactics is not the same as doing it with melee capable troops only. One is mass infantry tactics, the other is a meatgrinder.
They have a limited number.
Saved only for the lucky few who are slaughter in their first few combats, and only to send into battle when they think the enemy is worn down and not able to fight.
Save for their veterans only.
NCR has a lot more than one Howitzer man. They also have tanks and vertibirds.

No they're not. They clearly state in game that they're relying on under-trained volunteers to hold the line.
Shipped in support to help the bulk of the forces. They're not the main line of soldiers at all. Core NCR forces are rank and file NCR troopers not NCR Volunteers which are the bulk of NCR force in New Vegas.

Give us your crop or we'll kill you isn't an economy
They are the threat in their territory. Think something they don't like and they'll butcher you and your family
Do you actually think that the military of the NCR consists entirely of the occasional corrupt officer. NCR is embroiled in two wars right now. You don't think that veteranized them? You don't think they're spreading that experience through out their forces via promoting veterans to squad-leading positions?

He won't. He ran a cried like the Legion after Hoover Dam. He needs a Caesar to console him before he returns.

Last I check I wasn't you though.

At the end of this, you still haven't proven the validity of the Legion as the dominate culture in the wasteland. NCR has it's shit side, but at least it's trying to reestablish society and move forward. Legion actively want to move backwards.

You ignored everything I posted and replied to one thing. Hell you didn't reply to everything I said in my first bulk of comments you just chose what you wanted to reply to. You don't get to post "you dun reed it!" without being called a hypocritical faggot.

You hypocritical faggot. I guess I shouldn't expect anything less from a Legion fag. Even Chris Avellone said the Legion was dramatically underdeveloped and unexplored. I guess their simplicity is what appeals to you. Who knows? Who cares? I don't at this point anymore that's for sure.

They literally don't even bother their subjects. Here's what Sawyer wrote:

Le wacky science and pop culture references?

All four DLCs had a recurring theme of letting go of the past. What does that tell you in the context of Old World Blues?

For the guy criticising me for not reading his word salad you sure cherry picked that pretty hard and straight up ignored half of what he wrote.
Mate, if you're going to mock reading comprehension, throw him a bone and read what he wrote.

You get that "tribal" in new vegas is often just used as a term for different groups right? Like the Kings and The Boomers are considered "Tribes", so would the Followers and the Van Graffs. You equate tribal with the retards from aroyyo, when its just a term for groups with an in-group preference. Even the NCR has that going. The NCR is essentially one big tribe, same as the legion.


I'm a house boy as a point of reference but you're so far into NCR fanboyism you don't even realize how retarded what you've just written is.
The only reason why NCR beat the legion the first time is because Graham is an idiot tactically and throws troops in front and sticks to one tactic, which is actually the same as General Olliver. The only reason why the NCR one the battle for Hoover Dam is because of Ranger Chief Hanlons strategy to pick off legion commanders in back so they'd charge forward, which I might remind you then relied on the NCR to DETONATE AN ENTIRE FUCKING CITY to stop the legion. And it still wasn't enough to stop the legion, just to force a stalemate, with the legion constantly taking territory the NCR is guarding, like Nelson, and Camp Searchlight, and the other camp they got on the NCR side. They even get to Nipton. And supposedly Caesar hired the Fiends to harry the NCR and cause more damage.

As for Legions "Tribals" being farmers, do you think the NCR has advanced agricultural equipment? Hell, the director of OSI admits that the NCR is gonna have food shortages within 10 years cause they don't have enough farms, whereas the Legion is significantly bigger, and so far as we can tell, has absolutely no food issues. On top of this, the Legion might have a massive mobile force, but they obviously have stationary forces in their cities or they wouldn't be able to patrol and run off fiends and looters to make the legion the safest lands around. You also seem to think the Legion wouldn't have crop rotation, when they have Caesar, who is himself a follower of the apocalypse once, and has a tendency to train his troops in useful skills. Wouldn't surprise me if he pulled a tsao tsao and trained his soldiers to farm when not marching and fighting. Oh, and once again, despite being larger and more populated the legion doesn't have food issues, NCR does tho. NCRs words. Take it up with the OSI fucker in Camp MCarran.

As for Caesars method of recruitment, his biggest now is births. You know that thing thats given him a SIGNIFICANT advantage over the NCR cause they took womens rights away and are practically breeding women to have dozens of children? Something NCR not only doesn't do but actively recruits their own women, hurting their numbers even more. Remember how NCR beat the Brotherhood despite the Brotherhood having significantly better equipment and training due to numbers? Yeah. Oh and Legion soldiers are trained since childhood, like Spartans, fucking Spartans. NCR recruits 18 and 16 year old city kids and farmers, gives them a weeks training and throws them at the legion.

As for quality of equipment, even in the legion camps you see blacksmith stations, and they routinely conduct with Traders, they've also got supply lines, slave labor and good enough equipment to create praetorian armor, and supply their higher tier soldiers with 12.7 mm guns, power and displacer fists and other high tech gear.

But seriously dude, even most of the NCR as well as NCR affiliated companions like Cass outright point out NCR is getting their ass handled by the Legion. Without the Courier, they'd be slaughtered. Would Legion survive after Caesars gone? Prolly not. But NCR would not beat the Legion especially not with Lanius or Caesar at the helm of the battle.

Meant Centurion Armor, which is comparable with Power Armor DT & DR wise IIRC, seeing as its straight up plate and chainmail shit.

unwillingness to adapt to modern equipment, gets them killed in
If you'd read the rest you'd see they buy them. You can find traders in most Legion camps because it's profitable and safe to sell to them.
I never said they had no standardization, I said theirs is of inferior quality. And yes actually, quality would matter. Scavenged materials are not as good a purpose manufactured materials.
Right here, nigger. I even pointed out your contradiction here:

Since this is a new vegas thread and I've never seen it asked before, why does Caesar have no fucking kids? No heirs. He's been the leader of the Legion for Decades, he could have a dozen wives, and yet he has no heirs? Is he a fag or something? Sterile? A lot of the issues with Legion fracturing could have been solved by Caesar having a kid and making the title of Caesar hereditary.

You ignored everything else I said. Again. And not just a little bit, either. I'm not arguing on the points you feel you have an advantage on only, because that's how an idiot argues. Arguing with you is an exercise in patience and I don't particularly care to continue if this is the way you're going to approach it.

I've said all I think I need to to convince people of my points. More than enough. People can believe me or not, accept it or not. All the factions are shit, Legion is most shit and NCR is least shit. Feel free to gloat all you want after this pretending you won. This'll be your last (You) from me. You're Legionfag arrogance is exhausting and still haven't proven Legion is better. Goodnight, I'm going beddy-byes.

There aren't enough smug animes in the world to respond to this.
I've pointed out time and time again NCR trooper armor is only barely more effective than Legion armor as well as the fact that the NCR lacks any support beyond snipers.
Source
Source
Not even going to ask for a source on that one because I know it's bullshit. The Frontier is a mod and cannot be used to assess the NCR's operational capacity.
Did you actually bother to continue playing the main quest?
The Legion doesn't steal from Dissolutes. In fact they have slaves to do that. (That's ignoring their metal coinage by the way, which suggests metallurgy techniques.)
Then why didn't you respond to anything about house. :^)

Your points were idiotic and not grounded in reason or logic, but fanboyism for NCR. Even the game you play outright TELLS YOU that the Legion is significantly stronger than the NCR and are actively WINNING. There are even examples against your main point of technological superiority with the NCR and Brotherhood, when the legion also has advanced equipment as shown by the legion assassins and higher tier legion soldiers having fucking guns, a lot of them very high class guns. The dudes with machetes and spears are the new recruits who get guns by taking them from corpses or buying them. Of course, being proven wrong is too hard for you, so you're running away while screaming "NO FAIR, you're cheating!".

Cry more nigger. You're mad I pointed out you didn't bother to read even half of what you responded too.
ad hominem, I'm Independent Vegas every time. You're just such an insufferable NCR fanboy jerking off a faction losing to faggots in skirts.

Jesus Christ he broke you.

This thread turned out better then i thought

Turns out if you cherry-pick hard enouh and repeat that your opposition is wrong enough times, you automatically win.

...

Oh shit, is the NCR fanboy trudeau?

Feel free to go through my posts and try to find anything wrong. I tried to be thorough.

...

I think it would have been neat if one of his Military commanders had been his son or nephew. But It could be that a heriditary position goes against Caesar's only the strong will rise to the top theory that's present in their strategies.

That could be the main reason why, but It just seems odd he didn't have the foresight to see where his death would lead the legion. He also doesn't seem like the type of guy who was just in it for himself as he seemed to want to make the legion the inheritors of civilization. He really should have had a more longterm plan after his death. Especially when it's implied Lanius takes over when he's gone.

>controlled by (((Brahmin Barons)))
How are we supposed to take the NCR seriously after Fallout 2 exactly?

You forget Caesar is an egomaniac and probably hasn't even thought of what happens to the Legion once he's gone despite the giant tumor in his head.

Kek, I'd actually forgotten about that quest.

Boone said that Caesar had a line of successors but I think his long term plan involved him getting his Rome first. Caesar picking Lanius as his successor is proof that the Legion fucked if they don't get New Vegas before he kicks the bucket. Considering his age and his tumor, he would have enough time to groom a worthy successor that isn't a fucking moron.

Way to cover the bases there user. You truly disproved that the legion is ideal for ruling the Mojave.

That's how society has operated for milennia you fucking retards.

I can't stand you Utopian nutcases who jerk off about my freedumbs, you can have freedom when you can afford it not when you are living in a fucking nuclear wasteland.

Its amazing listening to these fucking 12 year old kids,

Yeah its a mean world, NCR has been just as responsible for slaughter, corruption forced movement.
Life is much worse deep in NCR territory where you have the ranchers who are the aristocracy.
You're not free there, and unlike this supposed writing by sawyer there is ACTUAL in game story to describe the problems with the NCR.

Meanwhile you only talk to a few NPC's and they have mixed feelings of the Legion.

Maybe. I just think it was Obsidian manufacturing a flaw so that the Legion isn't too objectively stronger than the NCR and guaranteed to win longterm. Course Caesar doesn't have the advantage of Houses immortality or his intelligence so I might be giving Caesar too much credit. Not to say he isn't smart but House is kinda in a league of his own, save for maybe the courier with 10+ int and with the Big empty at their back.

I don't recall boone ever mentioning this? If so, I wonder why Lanius takes over? Unless he was the succession which would surprise me as Caesar doesn't have a very high opinion of Lanius. Or lanius forced a coup.

Just what are you disagreeing with? The whole point of that blurb is Legion territory is safe.

Caesar is of course smart but his ego gets in the way of any of thinking up any scenarios he wouldn't be involved in.
Tbh, Caesar's lack of an heir may have been a victim of time constraints like most Legion content. Obsidian may have had some cool quest where you either help choose his heir or interact with some kind of son, be it biological or adoption.

NCR is strong, even Caesar says it. They're just a lot weaker without Tandi, and made a lot of stupid decisions. Like the food issues. Considering the food epidemic and their weak dollar though, i'm guessing they'd have to deal with insurrections and other issues in the following decade, victory over legion or no. IIRC the money thing was due to the need to make bottlecaps the main currency. So they created the weakened ncr dollar due to the brotherhood blowing up their gold reserves in a counterattack with their war between each other back west

Good point. Sucks that so much of New Vegas was scrapped due to time contraints. Like Kotor 2 and VTMB all over again.

Refer to

I simply see the Legion as extremely unstable. Even if anyone else tries to rule the Legion, without the brains it's likely to collapse after that leadership is over. My country's gone through this too. First a leader with smarts and then a person that simply believes too hard in the Communist ideology. After he died, everything collapsed within years.

The whole point of the legion is troops are trained at childhood to be soldiers.
How do you imagine soldiers are less inclined to follow the chain of the command vs NCR troops who frequently desert or take chems.

Lanius is a shit commander, but a mediocre leader in the Legion will fair better then a mediocre leader in the NCR, because Legion has a more disciplined military and government structure.

They have very little corruption not only because of high punishment but because corruption takes individuality and ambition something Legion beats out of them unless they have potential.

I pointed this out before in my post up there, but Legion are literally spartans. They're trained since childhood, and taken from their mothers, iirc at 5 years old, same as spartans and brutally trained to be soldiers. No one takes this into account when comparing legion to NCR. They take into account that legion are trained, but not to the degree that they're trained in comparison to NCR. It's an insane amount of difference and discipline.

Why is it Legionfags and NCRetards never take the operational capacity and strengths of their opposing side into account? Is it blind loyalty or do you just require some healthy autism to do House/Independent?

Also I believe its mentioned that the free citizens of Legion are men past military life.
There seems to be a very functioning economy and society that exists in Legion beyond the military, which would of probably been fleshed out more if they got the time to work on it that they wanted.

Well most NCR people are huffed up on the freedom sauce, completely blind that House offers better freedom.

However the actual NCR soldiers are scared shitless of the Legion, I remember talking to one about Legion members taking bullets but still fighting.

If you mean how I said that they're literally spartans, it's not that i'm overvaluing them, it's how I see them due to their training regiment and life. I actually don't like legion very much, I find them boring. House is the best imo, and I like the NCR more than Legion, mostly due to the gun runners and interesting minor factions in NCR territory like the BOS, Followers, New Reno gangsters and shit like that.

That's actually a good point. Is it just past military service citizens or regular citizens cause iirc legion routinely slaughters tribes that don't assimilate, though it might be assimilation in general, not assimilation into the army. Shame they didn't expand on it, as it's very vague how their faction and economy function other than very broad strokes.

He'll mention it if you both decided to cure his brain tumor.

Lanius is everything that Caesar wants in a warrior and he was already leading the army for Caesar due to Caesar's poor health. Caesar know that Legion care very little of his ideas themselves. People say Vulpes Inculta should lead but he is a spy not a true warrior. Then again Caesar should have just trusted that his people would accept anyone that he personally appoints.

Well since there is a trader in the Legion camp and he mentions trade routes I would guess there is a fair amount of anatomy.

If I had to describe it I would say there are two governments.
Legion which is the Military, the old men vets being the administration and I would imagine businessmen if Legion is based off of Greek or Roman military where they get a Tithe and money for when they retire.

Then everyone else which is the civies,
There HAS to be a civilian group because without that there would be no traders just supply lines and no economy to back the gold they use, which I believe is stronger then the NCR dollar, if not in game for the fact they use metal for their currency.

The best option for a heir is to have either Lanius or Vulpes to have a child, then raise the child as a leader.
Lanius I think would be pissed if he didn't or his kid became the successor however, I don't think Vulpes would mind.
He seems very serious about the Legion.

Also I don't think Caesar hides the past from them, I think most know about Rome.
That would actually do MORE to inspire them then keeping it from them.
Whenever I did deal with Ceaser vs the NCR troop morale and morale in general seems way higher with Legion then NCR.

I really don't think the Legion has much of a civ yet. It really seems like Caesar intends to use them to create one and eventually the Legion will evolve into a purely military arm.
This is from Sawyer's site that appears to have been killed a replaced with something else.
Breeding issues are pretty huge in cultures that took a big step back from infant mortality progress made in the last 100-200 years. Prior to the last few centuries, infant mortality was often around 50%-ish. Child mortality (prior to age 12) was about 60%. Those are pretty awful odds of reaching adulthood.
Remember that Caesar's Legion is basically a roving army that continually breaks down and absorbs tribes that it conquers. That can only go on for so long, and Legionaries who are indoctrinated from birth are even more loyal than adolescents who are integrated. Breeding new generations of Legionaries is vital for the Legion's continued existence.
Even though breeding is incredibly important in the Legion, there isn't any concept of family outside of the Legion's structure. All of the places where the player encounters the Legion are forward camps where direct military service is given the most weight and is of the most immediate importance. Because only males are involved in that service, they look down upon females even though it's incredibly short-sighted.
The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.
While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.
The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once – even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them – they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)
nma-fallout.com/threads/j-e-sawyer-on-the-legion-and-post-endgame-play.198259/
The civilian group really just seems to be people who live in their territory. Consider that they're probably aren't any retired Legionaires besides cripples purely because the Legion hasn't been around long enough. What you describe is probably the Legion in 50-60 years if they survive the death of Caesar.

How will legionfas ever recover?

Fugg, I mean to Greentext the quote

As far as retired military it would probably be 30-40, you age harder based on your environment.

Breeding problems is a moot point, there is going to be a child problem in every society in Fallout, granted it could be worse due to lack of pain chems.
But then again, epidurals for birth is a incredibly precise procedure I doubt they do it even in the NCR.
Maybe the followers, shit if Caesar was a follower it may be one of the things he has an understanding of.

I think people in Caeser have more autonomy then you think.
It would probably be like Roman non-citizens, not slaves but not completely without rights.
An economy cannot function in a dictatorship with no freedom.
Trade would be non-existent as that takes someone to have capital to invest which means freedom to possess money.
As well as the freedom to travel freely among territory.

Also why would the Legion be interested in controlling every aspect within their territory? They don't have the food problems or internal strife that NCR has so I imagine preventing revolts 24/7 which most military dictatorships do isn't happening as the solidarity of their rule has already been achieved in their territory.

Also excluding women in military and treating them like cattle, is probably a way they counter low birth rate.
Its cruel, but it probably kicks out more children.

I think what he means by not completely free, is that people are at the legion's service they can carry on their normal lives but they probably pay tribute to them and if the legion needs people to resettle somewhere else for example, they must move their entire lives where they are told and like he said, that's a rare event

With all of the fucking Isekais coming out recently, I ended up imagining a Fallout: New Vegas Isekai. Kill me.

what?

...

"Another world"
Before it was assholes jumping in front of trucks and magically transporting to another world.
Then it became waking up in a world like an MMO.
Now it is autistic NEETs being transported to a generic JRPG setting and getting some OP ability.

That's so blatant it's painful

Subaru was too busy dealing with heavy trauma and, you know, being killed over and over.

This post right here is literally why going indep is the only choice.
You yourself admit that the Legion's shit, and going to fall apart.
What, do you think Caesar's planning to actually make a good government, after building an army of brainwashed mooks? You think he even can?
No.

so im currently doing a modded run i just want to know whats the most fun ending to go for gameplay wise? also if you have any mod suggestions for more content that would be nice im fucking already level 41

Legion BTFO


Check out the someguy series of mods, like New Vegas Bounties

Get a load of this nerd who cares about a video game story.

The word you're looking for is 'desertpunk'.

What the fuck nigger, the story and dialogue was the best part of OWB.

There are 8 bethesda related threads in the catalog at this moment.

Post 'em if you got 'em

I-it's not much

I love how NCRfags always know the least about the lore of New Vegas.


Technically New Vegas is an Obsidian game, but my question to you is did you post this complaint in the Skyrim/Oblivion/Fallout3/Fallout4 threads?

Calm down Todd.

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They're both shit. Independent and House are the only decent paths.

What everybody fails to realise is that all of the factions will succeed if they win, because they all have New Vegas.


Unless you fuck up certain things, such as letting Caesar die for Legion or blowing up the securitrons for House/Yes Man, all of the factions succeed. All it comes down to is your personal preference.

Dunno about that. NCR still has food issues and expansionist issues. And defeating Legion and House would only embolden them. Theyd probably keep expanding and tax the mojave heaviest of all to compensate for it as well as the losses incurred during the war.

Legion would probably fall to pieces after Caesar dies, Vegas or no. I could also see Lanius trying to force a war forward into NCR territory and then revolts back home taking land, as it's Caesar they follow, not Legion itself, until like another user said, Vulpes kills him and takes control, but many wouldn't recognize vulpes and he might have a piece of the mojave and something else. The wasteland seems to be fucked either way. The only exception is House would most likely be okay in vegas and the mojave but if/when the NCR runs into issues I dont know how he's going to fund his economy.

He has a city full of poor people, relatively untouched infrastructure and few already functioning enterprises in his territory like Guns Runners and that one guy making neon signs
I think it wouldnt be a problem for him to switch to production industry and trade instead of tourism

What I remember was that Ceaser was planning a mutual assimilation with the NCR when he wins. He talked about this helping to make the Legion into an actual long term functioning system and not just a bunch of low-lifes dominated by him.

Hegelian Dialectic huh
Hegel
"…the philosophies of Marx and Nietzsche… had their beginnings in Hegel"
fuck me Legion might be proto commies

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Tell me, why exactly does infrastructure need to be provided by a government monopoly or mafia? Why do you assume such things wouldn't already be produced naturally in a private market?
Here's what you really misunderstand about the legion; the tribals are not the citizens.

The tribal soldiers are just that; soldiers, for life. All of the infrastructure eastward into Colorado is handled privately in a competitive market. Caesar gives full reign over his citizens, allowing a the market to take care of all the non-military issues. From some of the Van Burren docs it was described to be as much of a lions den as the legions army itself in terms of how competitive of a market legion territory was under. Mind you, legion territory was also the least violent and it's army was funded through slave conquest, not taxation.

You're only viewing the horn of the bull, and ignoring the rest of it. The reason the legion has no infrastructure in the Mojave is because they haven't conquered it yet.

Can someone post some of the modding guides for NV. You got hyped for another run.

pastebin.com/2qLdify7

When does he say that?

pastebin.com/9QkTmGhm

Here's another Holla Forums NV mod list. This one is more for niche mods that might get glossed over.

around 2:20

Legion:

House:

Indep:

Ok shitposting's over, NCR legit did nothing wrong and I'm not meming. "But muh bureaucracy" the uneducated redditor responds. NCR is the only hope for the wasteland. No one will trade with you when you're Indep/House and so your shitciv will have to rely on shit desert farms, meaning that all your people will die of starvation. The new vegas region is unsustainable. Eventually, Jew Vegas will side with one of 2 factions that can provide it with food, namely the legion and the NCR. Since the NCR will beat the legion beyond any doubt, the best course of action will be to attain the NCR ending. The devs knew this which is why their questline and ending is fleshed out the most. I don't know why you niggers never get this but sometimes the best course of action is to side with the least retarded faction even if they aren't edgy or cool.


>>>/his/

Nigga this shit is convoluted. What I've been running till now are some bugfixes and some better weapons animations and minor improvements.

Have fun getting fucked over by taxes and brahmin barons
Its not like there is a huge farm right next to Vegas or like any of the smaller communities farm for themselves
Just like in the first battle of the dam
Especially with assassinated warmongering president

Get a load of this casual.

wiki.step-project.com/User:EssArrBee/FalloutNewVegas

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Why would you build non military infrastructure on the very front line?

Enjoy dying
The smaller communities can survive, there's no way that tiny irradiated shit of a farm can supply all of new vegas/freeside
NCR did win that one and barring outside influence wins the second.

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Same could be said about NCR, even NCR personnel says that NCR will have food shortage in 10 years
fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR_sharecropper_farms
They won barerly, and now legion has the experience, not only that but without any outside influence NCR President would get assassinated

The NCR are nothing more than mafioso thugs who can't even defend prim from half a dozen unarmored crooks with six shooters. Their tax-for-protection is also a complete scam. And they'd slit the throat of a thousand citizens of New Vegas with a smile on their face if it meant a drop of cum from their true masters, the barons and monopolies of the wasteland which they love so much.

NCR is not a democracy, NCR is the worst elements of crony capitalism all combined into one, NCR is THE most corrupt faction and would make any African countries blush, NCR are pro-war pro-death warmongering savages.

I don't even know why we're having this discussion. If Ulysses is to be believed. New Vegas is doomed anyway thanks to the Tunnelers expanding into it, and a total collapse shouldn't take more than a decade.

Then again, I can't expect an NCR cuckboy to actually have played the game.

It gets worse than that my friend.

How can NCRfaggs even defend that?

The legion are hypocritical asshole idiots, the NCR is incompetant, and Mr.House is out of touch.

This only means that Make New Vegas Great Again is the only option.

Fuck the NCR, fuck House, Fuck Caeser.

We independent now, it's objectively the best option.

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Yeah and that. When you get independent you can at least RP that the courier tells people to get the fuck out of dodge.

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They weren't all massacred. They took one of the women alive
For breeding

It'd take a while to get that off the ground. I'm not sure how well it'd work either. Could work well, especially if he could organize trade between the legion and NCR and make it so Vegas is strong enough to make them both too worried to try anything after they've been weakened. Course, if it goes Houses way, NCR doesn't die just weakened and if shit goes horribly south 10 years from vegas house would most likely have something else going on to compensate. He's always got a plan.

I'm pretty sure you fight her in the arena

You know some legionaries tried her out before she ever stepped into the arena.

rolling

completion/achievement bragfag: yes you should bother killing yourself

I have seen rule 34 of the sneaking suit exactly once and I can't find it again.
You have no idea how mad I am.

All gay. Enclave Master Race

How can I play as the Big Guy, Holla Forums?

roll

Im not surprised

Faction debates get more autistic as time goes on.

NCR > Enclave > BoS > Legion > House

Opinion's wrong, try again.

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Oh shit, i meant it the other way. NCR worst, House best

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We all know the Legion is objectively the best faction, but who is the objectively best companion?

easy

Correct

Ed-e with that fucking enclave horn disabled obviously, but if we're talking humanoid, Raul.

On opposite day, maybe.

That's clearly because of Elijah+MC's actions (Elijah's entire point to going to the place is to loot the tech behind it), not something that will occur naturally.


He also says they're fucked if you kill the queen.

The Boomers are canonically self sufficient. Knowing that you really think a House/Independent New Vegas couldn't produce enough food and other goods, with not only the resources of New Vegas but House's technology and possibly the Big MT behind them? Are you that fucking clueless?

2>1>NV>>>T>shit>cancer>3>BoS

DM>OWB>LR>HH

I think you just mean "capitalism", there is no central force to regulate their exchanges.

The only irritating thing about Raul is that his quest is bugged, if you talk to the retired ranger in Nipton before you meet him and get his unarmed skill then the quest won't recognize that you talked to him. This happened to me even with a bunch of unofficial patches.

2>NV>>1(because one is horibly dated by now)>>T>shit>cancer>3>BoS

DM>HH>OWB>LR
I mean nigga how the hell did you not like HH?

House is obviously the best faction.

The developers literally had to force play testers to commit mass murder to stay with him, because it was the only way to get people to even consider choosing any other faction.

All of the DLC for NV is legitimately good

FNV BOS was doomed to fail anyway since everybody wanted them dead and thebest thing they could do was to hide in their little shitty bunker

To kill them was mercy kill

[spoiler]I never said I didn't like it[spoiler]

As far as DLC goes NV did pretty gud. And you know what, I'll agree with you on 1.

How can one man be so wrong?
LR>HH>DM>OWB

As much as I love the BoS they are a faction that is no longer relevant to the wasteland. They were barely important in 2, by the time of NV there are too many factions with comparable technology and manpower running around.
What else could they do? They are isolationists whose strength was due to everyone else having worse equipment then them. They got their ass handed to them at HELIOS and they now had even fewer forces to combat the infinitely larger NCR army.

Why? They build it up to be this cool survival type thing and then they give you vending machines that will just spit out more ammo and stimpacks than you will ever need.

DM fucking crushes you with it's fucking atmosphere, would more so if what wasn't true. I also can't help but fuck over the whole point of the DLC and take all the gold, the bars just look to good in my Novac apartment

LR would be better if Ulysses wasn't such a fag.

I put OWB so high because I like the cast and how a high IN courier can fuck with them.

And the main story in HH is honestly kind of boring, although the survivors side story more than makes up for it.

Again I enjoyed all of them and my opinion is subjective and sifts every time I play them

That's true. And that's why it's not last on my list. The atmosphere is oppressive, but in a way that's compelling. Not enough to balance out their mechanical failure in trying to make a survival horror expansion, but it's still nice.
I see a lot of people on Holla Forums shit on him all the time, but I don't get it. For me, Ulysses is the most important and compelling part of LR. Without him, it would just be one long corridor with high-level enemies–he gives it context and meaning.
I like the cast a lot, too. I put it at the bottom because I played it as a guns specialist. And if you don't have high skills in either energy weapons or melee, you're fucked. The bullet sponginess that enemies display against guns is so bad that I ended up just turning the difficulty all the way down so I could power through it. That might seem like a nitpick overall, given that it's specific to my experience on a guns-heavy playthrough, but it ruined my perception of the whole thing. Maybe one day I'll do another playthrough of OWB with melee and energy weapons, and actually have fun.
To me, of all the DLC, it felt the most like "more of Fallout: New Vegas," In terms of story and structure. LR was a punishing corridor with a story about history, DM was a survival horror maze with a story about letting go of the past, and OWB was a big flat field with a funny story that had a surprisingly sinister edge. In contrast, HH was a big piece of territory with settlements and factions and a story that involved reclaiming the wasteland, and that thematically tied back into the main game more strongly than any of the others. I think it's tragically underrated.

Same here except for OWB.
Relax, fam. I'm not looking to fight over it. I just like talking about it. It's interesting to read other people's reasoning on the DLC, given that they usually differ wildly.

for faggots letting everything before the boom boom rust. they sure do talk about it a lot.

nigga wut women are going to stop having babies because it hurts? what is the current fertility drop in the west? the only issue would be infant mortality do to no drugs/ shit nutrition. but time and time again we see when we start to fix that problem the population booms. (as long as we don't fall to feminism)

favorite thing about this game

game is a hot buggy mess but the background the lore is better but it fails to deliver that to the actual game play instead dedicating resources populating the map with gimmick and non gimmick dungeons to loot, rather than having the player idk actually interact with the factions. look deadclaw sanctuary some fucking rat den you get a special varmint rifu in. the fucking ant dungeon you have to clear for the boomers….. legion towns whats that? politics and war? nah thats in the background go loot some more vaults. faction quests are not pick one not the other but go clear dungeon to get +1 relation 50 fucking times. legion doesn't get pissed at you, ever unless you start murderfucking them. and even then you can get away with it once. same goes for the ncr. cant make it so the player can fail for flailing around like a fucktard, cant ruin that save file man.

member in fallout 1 where you could fuck up? you know telling people where your super secret vault is might me a bad fucking idea? nOOooo. you cant permanently get the legion pissed at you for murdering a squad and a valued lutendant for his fucking hat. because that would "ruin" the story. what if you had to sneak into legion camp? you would miss out on all our valuable characterization of the legion because we cant make legion camps &npc's because we brought you the Powder Ganger vault dungeon full of fucks that do jack shit. GOD FORBID WE MAKE THE LEADER SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A FUCKTARD FOR THE SAKE OF MOVING THE PLOT FORWARD WITH A MASSIVE DIALOG DUMP.

The point isnt that Obsidian didnt wanted to add more fractions story
Its just that Obsidian is fucking incompetent with time and resources management and ZionMax was breathing down their necks the whole time so they didnt had much time

did you miss me bitching about extra dungeons to loot shit out of instead of legion settlements ?

As i said Obsidian is horrible with time menagement, and probably their dev time was cut short

Great you all made me install New Vegas again.
I've beentrying to get all the mods together again but Darnified isn't working correctly/the font is to huge.
Any ideas for the solution?
Ini files are changed and read only, MO has it's automatic archiveinvalidation activated and the .esp is ticked on.
I know this isn't the first time it happened after installing NV and I know I solved that issue before but I can't remember how.

Did you change the ini editor in MO or in the actual ini?

Was only in the MO editor
I tried changing all three inis by hand and manually installing DarnUI and launching it with FOMM
That worked, switching to MO with only DarnUI active worked aswell but the moment I added other mods I had the vanilla fontsize back.
Now it doesn't even work with only DarnUI active neither in MO nor FOMM

They are afraid of light, so they would be a threat only at night. Vegas itself is lit up 24/7, so that alone would keep tunnelers away from the city itself. Besides that, each major faction has means to at least contain threat posed by tunnelers. Only places like Goodsprings might get fucked up if they don't get their shit together quickly enough.

Besides that, tunnelers might end up being a positive thing in the long run. They would eliminate Fiends, Vipers, Khans, and other gangs, thus making wastes safer during the day. In addition, whoever controls the region would be forced to quickly develop electric grid to lit up all the roads and settlements.


It's only if you side with Elijah, which allows him to create a second cloud over Hoover Dam. Cloud gets weaker if you complete Dead Money any other way, so there is nothing to worry about unless you choose to make it a problem. Even then, cloud can be dispersed with ventilation systems, even outdoors. House, Big MT, and Followers would also get interested in it and eventually find a way to deal with it.

Fuck off. They went out of their way to find publishers even when they didn't need one, and shit they made at their own pace is still just that. Shit. Rushed, buggy and with glaringly cut content out the ass.