JRPG Thread

I expect that part of the issue has been that NoA has been in control of what feedback NoJ gets from westerners. It wouldn't shock me if attempts to contact NoJ directly by mail/email and such wind up rerouted to NoA if coming from NA addresses (or NoE, if in PAL). If there's some assumption at NoJ that NoA has been behaving professionally, and that the changes to the games HAD to be made (simply because that's what NoA has told them), they might not have been all that aware of just how angry westerners have gotten with NoA.

You do have a good point about global censorship. Japanese customers understandably should fume over having content for their region botched to appease western media kvetching over such things, and if it keeps on happening, I'd like to think their customers there will hit them in the wallet over it (which would probably be more effective than westerners not buying things, Japan being Nintendo's primary customerbase, at least for niche games like JRPGs and such). I suppose worst comes to worst, NoJ stops clearing games to come overseas so they remain intact for the local audience, while with the best case Nintendo drops NoA and Treehouse for costing them sales both local and abroad. Ideally though, the Japanese side needs to be made better aware that our media and reviewers whining about risqué content should not be taken as representative of the actual customers that would be interested in their games.

I'm still not falling for your meme, but I'll probably play them in this order because Chrono Cross scares the shit out of me.

Still went down easy, but I wasn't expecting that. Script seems alright so far, but Atlus could have been a bit more careful with mechanics. I get the feeling "Strage" is supposed to be "Strange" (and thus "Strage Guard/Points/Attack" would all be "Strange [Term]", but I could be wrong. Might be neat to find the JP introduction and dump the runes for the term into google translate or something.

I'm as convinced as you are that NoA is lying out their teeth to NoJ about the "mandatory" changes that must be made product before it can be released; that's pretty much a given. What I'm not sold on is whether or not NoJ, by this point in the game, remains ignorant. Language barrier is a bitch for sure, but there have been a few games over the years that have explicitly sold like shit because of censorship. Devs know and recognize this and the word eventually spreads.

"I'd like to think…" Nigga you kidding me? There's no room for uncertainty here. Otaku will burn every damn franchise to the ground before they let some corporate kikes censor their games. Especially if it's being done to appease western barbarians. There's nothing to fear on that front. It'll happen, and then the practice will be stopped that very goddamn moment.

I'm more worried about our side. I don't trust the Western market to do what's necessary to make our intent and will clear to NoJ. Unfortunately, NoJ listens to their American branch, who are fanatically devoted to purveying SJW bullshit to them. The fanbase needs to cause such a hubbub that NoJ is forced to circumvent Treehouse and listen to direct feedback. I can't see this happening without deliberately martyring a game on an unprecedented scale, or at least to the extent that poor Star Ocean 5 was, but community over here is way too fractured to have the single-minded will necessary to do so.

Nigga you kidding me? There's no room for uncertainty here.
I was thinking it depended on the game/fanbase as to how vehemently they'd respond. I've heard SO5 bombed out there over the panty change, and I remember that with Tales of Zestiria they threw a fit over the Alicia thing (which wasn't even a localization induced issue, rather an idea they got bait and switched). But both of those are long standing series that have acquired fanbases of reasonable size at this point. I'm not certain how they'd react to such a thing in regards to, say, new IPs in comparison, where they might not even have fans yet. Would they just auto-boycott them if there's fuckery from the get-go, made with the west in mind?

True. It would be nice to get an official work around though, like maybe have some third party user living in Japan that actual western feedback could get sent to, and then sent from there to NoJ. I'd imagine that it might be easier to sidestep NoA potentially intercepting and deeming what feedback to send on or not by having a bundle of them sent from a local out there, or something. Just my thoughts on the matter though.

Good point, and something I didn't consider. It's a lot harder for people to get up in arms about something being ruined if it's a completely new establishment, and thus has nothing to ruin. I don't know how dedicated the otaku would be to the sheer principal of anti-censorship alone, but my gut feeling tells me they'd still be pretty furious. To counter though, I don't think it's of too much concern. In these days, how many new IPs, or more precisely, new game without an established fanbase are there? And of that number, how many are deliberately constructed with global appeal/release in mind? Typically a new IP must prove itself in the domestic market before being shipped overseas. It'd be some next level bullshit from NoA if they're censoring nipponese games that may not even see the light of day Westwards.

Really rolling with the premise, game.
I have no idea if this is a bug or is it's meant to show the dog freaking the fuck out. If the latter, it's being used to really good effect as there's no voiced audio in the game.

Sadly not enough. Especially since it's easier to reboot, warp, or shoehorn a game into an established IP than make something new (I'd also mention "in-series in name only in the west" cases, but those are nothing new and have actually died off somewhat). Seems publishers find it less risky.

Yeah, I'd think they'd play it smart and gauge local interest in the product first. And some games seem to get automatically deemed ill-fit for coming west, or were only intended for the local market though sometimes that view can change. Of course, with games by third party companies, there's also the issue of if any western publisher even wants to take it up either. NoA, and, say, NISA, seem to have to handle games their parent company (being an offbranch of Nintendo and NIS) has decided to push west, even if they don't really like the game in question.

Given the fears over pre-emptive purging of lewdness due to the Olympics taking place there soon, it wouldn't surprise me if at least some companies get forced into global sanitization, at least for the time.

The thing is, once you do play through them in that order, you'll realize it's not a meme.

For example. Queen Zeal and Schala have their equivalents in Miang and Elly, who have their equivalents in Harle and Kid, who are equivalent to T-ELOS and KOS-MOS. Interestingly, all four groups have "third" member, who is either a fusion of both or a descendant. In CT it is Marle, in XG it is the Original Miang, in CC it's Schala, in XS it's Mary, who, of course, becomes the Original Miang via Kadmony.

Hell, even the "Save Points are Evil" motif, which is plot pertinent in XG, CC and XS, is based on the trick save points in Magus' Castle in CT.

Took a look on youtube as to what "Strage" is in the Japanese script (was easy enough, as it's explained in the tutorial area). Using Google translate, it seems like the moonrunes used, ストレージ, come out as "Storage" ("Sutorēji") Which makes good sense, as there's a meter that fills as combat goes on, which I suppose is meant to be stored energy ("Strage Guard" blocks some damage but stores up a LOT of power from the blow taken, while Backstep consumes stored power in order to avoid 100% damage, and "Strage Attack" consumes stored power for a special attack). That does beg the question though of whether the English script is outright calling it "Strage" as a slight mistranslation, or if it's some shorthand for "Storage" with the "o" cut out to save on script space (admittedly something I'd think would be less of an issue as of sixth gen). I'll have to look into the manual and double check later how the print refers to it. The English script also tries to shorthand "Strage Points" as "SP" (which would also work as "Storage/Stored Points), and equates it with building/consuming "fighting spirit". Not sure if the Japanese script does the same as a justification.

Just something I thought I'd mention since I brought it up earlier.

Just checked the manual like I said I would. The fact that it also uses "Strage" in the terminology there too, with no indication at being an shortening of "Storage", leads me to believe it was a mistranslation, or if it was caught in editing, was left alone to make the term feel less generic. Just my thoughts on it given what I've seen.

I am liking the way the guard mechanics work, having to learn enemy tells and timing for blocking, which form of guard is going to be most effective for the situation and type of incoming attack, and managing build and consumption of Strage as you play. Camera in combat can be a pain to work with though (compare learning tells and timing from off center camera, to direct front-center camera), but seems to keep you on your toes some too. Also enjoying how there's no random encounters, with regular enemies being visible on the dungeon field, though I'm not sure there's any way to really jump them to gain an advantage. They seem more than a bit too twitchy to sneak up on (and some of them fly above the screen and only drop to your level after spotting you), but it at least gives you time to prepare for a fight since you can see one coming.

Might as well give this a bump since it's on page 12.

any jrpg recommendation?

This confuses me.

They are just retarded.

Dragon Quest marathon, currently in middle of 3. Using English fan translations of the Japanese versions because Enix did a bunch of censoring for the Western releases and it's annoying.

Depends on what you're looking for. If you're just getting into jrpgs, Chrono Trigger or one of the Mario RPGs are good starting points. If you're just looking for a hidden gem, try Live a Live.

You are playing the SNES remake of 3, right? That's the definitive version.

Yeah, the SNES version is many times better than the NES or GBC versions, and not just in graphics. It's a little annoying that the DaMarsMan translation has some places where the text glitches out and breaks the game, but it's not a big deal. About to get the Zen Book and turn my mage into a sage.

That was fixed in the 1.1 version of the patch, which is on romhacking.net IIRC. You'll have to re-patch your rom if you want to try it, but you should still be able to keep your saves as long as the DQ III rom file and all the DQ III files in your saves folder have the same name.

You new to the (sub)genre and looking for good entry points, or just looking for ideas on general games to be playing?

Sounds like you've got a lot cut out for you, even if just focusing on the main entries. I remember one user that did similar and spent what seemed like months on it. How long did I and II take you, out of curiosity?

Wizardry is a western game.

Yes but SMT fucking sure as hell isn't

JRPGs literally aren't RPGs. The only thing they have in common with actual RPGs is leveling up, and that's not even something unique to RPGs.

when you literally play the role of the character in the game

Well the way I see it, JRPGs are essentially like playing a tabletop RPG with a premade character. WRPGs give you choices so the character you've created can make decisions based on their personality, but JRPGs don't because logically the premade character you're playing as wouldn't do anything that contradicted their personality.

So they're like tabletop RPGs, but without the things that make them RPGs.

Stop forcing this meme.

Replaying Chrono Trigger, oddly enough because of this thread reminding me of its existence. I'd never actually beaten the game before, only got up to fighting Lavos and then quit.
Looking back on it while playing, the game honestly feels like it's too short for its own good. Plus the whole time travel thing and overwriting future events while in the past doesn't get nearly enough attention outside of sidequests and Medina Village.
I am half-tempted to play Chrono Cross when I'm done, but the only good things I've ever heard when it comes to that game is that the music is good and the combat system is… unique.

Mario is Japanese, therefore Crash Bandicoot is Japanese.

Chrono cross is an alright game when viewed in a vacuum, it just kinda fails as a sequel.
I mean maybe if you really like violins.

I got through each one in about a week, but I've been playing more than usual recently.
I'm not going to play Dragon Quest Monsters
Or Builders

I can only assume there was something different here in the Japanese text, given the connotation. Unless they specifically asked for another grave to be added just for that (which i kind of doubt, there's a grave with the same model right next to it with standard game-universe text on it.

*What about Rocket Slime?**

I honestly tend to like to play strings of games in a series one after another myself, but there comes a point where it starts to get a bit daunting, especially if you're anticipating each to take more than a while. I mean, playing all the main Wild Arms and Shadow Hearts games one after another was fine for me, as was .hack (though each subseries is intended as one whole game, just split up over 3-4 releases; fuck that release format), since those don't have that many games, but something like Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, or SMT I'm not so sure I'd want to play each game (that's in English, I mean) back to back, as at the very least that risks burnout.

Good luck with your marathon of Dragon Quest though.

Right now I am playing Breath of Fire III and I jsut got the boat. It's a fun game, and I like it.

I don't have any modern consoles to play them, so no there isn't anything I am looking forward to, plus my backlog is already big enough as it is.

99% of cases means a game made in Japan that has a certain style to it, like premade characters, almost no moral choices and turn based combat. Of course there will always be exception like Western JRPGs such as Anachronox, Septerra Core, The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age, and RPGs made in Japan that are more action oriented such as Dark Souls, though some might call it an ARPG.

Mario is Italian

Tell me something I can play on PC guys, emulated or not.

The guard mechanics in Tsugunai continue to prove interesting, as is having to learn timings (I still can't seem to get the right timing against the charge the wolves at the hilltop do). Always feels good to use a Counter Guard as a nice "fuck off" to whatever's trying to maul the character you're possessing (especially since it's not just a standard "1 damage" counter, but a full on weapon strike). Properly executing a normal guard also seems to not just drastically reduce damage, but status effects being inflicted as well. Will have to see if said status infliction attacks can be Counter Guarded without receiving the status as well. I will say though that I don't trust the Strage Guard to do so (as the point of that is to absorb more power from the attack you're being hit by, rather than having more damage reduction), but that's another experiment to be had.

Also thinking maybe it might be helpful to construct a list or something of turn-based JRPGs with active inputs, be they offensive in style, defensive, or both.

Breath of Fire III's pretty damn good. Shame Capcom seems to have relegated any continuation after Dragon Quarter to mobile phones now.

Personally, I'd just append the former as "JRPG-inspired WRPGs" and the latter as "WRPG-inspired JRPGs", as regardless of how they handle, or where they're drawing elements from, it doesn't change where they were actually developed at. And of course you could add further descriptors to each for more of an accurate idea of how any of them handle. While there's certainly stereotypes for how each region handles things, it's certainly not a requirement (and I do hope you're not trying to claim that turn-based combat is a key factor for a game being a JRPG; if so, what does that make Tales, Mana, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Xenoblade, etc then?).

Might help if you say what you've already played, preferences for combat style, etc.

Honestly out of all those games, I only played Ys I,II and V, but maybe I did exaggerate when I said that turn based combat is an integral element of JRPGs, and even if it was, there are many different ways of doing it, the combat of Final Fantasy I, differs from that of VI, or Grandia, or Lunar, or Lost Odyssey and so on. There are many ways of doing turn based combat, but you also can't deny that the majority of JRPGs are turn based in nature.

I played a lot in my days because back then I didn't play anything else, I guess I'm looking for something that isn't too old or mainstream, some of my favorites are SMT: Strange Journey, Nocturne, Persona 4, The Ys games, Earthbound/Mother 3, Vagrant Story.
I don't mind any combat style as long as it's well done.

have you tried Grandia 1 and 2?

I knew I was forgetting something rather noteworthy (as well as long-standing) in listing off those other series there. Shame NISA's taking the series over in the west.

That might make an interesting study, really. Finding out (up through, say, seventh gen, since that's effectively been over, aside from a few stragglers that saw dual PS3 and PS4 releases, like Persona 5) just how what percent actually use what sort of combat style, or even breaking it down further as to what percent of turn-based ones use standard turn-based, or what I'd call "modified turn-based" (IE: still turn-based, but allows more player input into the actions taken). And to my knowledge there's even some hybrid ones, where the combat itself is turn based, but free movement in the combat field is done in real time.

Well, I'd recommend the Shadow Hearts series if you have yet to play them, as the combat's done pretty neatly in there (albeit Covenant and FtNW are both a refinement and advancing of the first game's system), but I do recall reading that they were being a bit to emulate. Luckily, having just checked, it seems PCSX2 wiki is back up after a prolonged downtime, so that should list off potential issues and workarounds. Assuming you've got a good enough machine that can emulate PS2 games, anyhow. Series does start with Koudelka on the PS1 though, a mixed Gothic Horror/JRPG (with light tactical elements; positioning, breakable weapons). The PS2 Shadow Hearts games follow up on it chronologically (albeit with less connection to it than each other, given how Koudelka was received), and are more in the way of JRPGs with a horror bent to the designs/stories.

I've got some unfinished (because I've been unable to pare them down better) images in regards to the series I can repost if they're of interest to you.

I am not sure if Kingdom Hearts is like that(never played it), but Rogue Galaxy has interesting combat. You can freely move, use normal attacks(no combos), jump and/or attack and block. Attacking consumes a bar, and after it has been emptied you can attack anymore, just move, jump and block. After a while it recharges and you can attack again, if you block it recharges faster. Now to use items and special items you need to pause the game and select the item/ability. I also heard that Dark Cloud is like that, but it's also made by the same developer.

I really hope DQ11 doesn't get too fucked during the localization process I know it will.

Is that just in regards to special attacks/spells, or any form of attack? Just curious, as I still need to get around to that game sometime. If it's the former though, I'd say that's somewhat similar to .hack//G.U., where using the Skill Trigger activates a cooldown on any skill or item use until the gauge fills (forcing you to weigh the timing of using it, as you may or may not be needing to use an item during the potential cooldown), but you can still move around and do regular attacks until then.

I want to say most JRPGs are probably like that regardless of if combat itself is menu driven or not. I doubt many let you "hotkey" items, so to speak (maybe Atelier though, given the crafting and item use focus? Not sure, still on my backlog). Usually if it's a real-time combat one and the developer is smart, you can map skills out (though, of course there's games like .hack//IMOQ where both items and skills are entirely menu based; I hear .hack//Fragment fixed that, with G.U. evolving it into the Skill Trigger), but items are still menu oriented usage. Though, that assumes that the game in question has an actual skill system to begin with, or that special attacks aren't built into some other mechanic anyhow.

Yeah, I wouldn't have much faith in it, both given both the track record of Dragon Quest localizations and modern Square-Enix localizations in general (Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, Drakengard 3, Bravely Second, etc). I still find it hilarious and sad that Square removed that entire Indian styled class from Bravely Second (and replaced them with a cowboy type class, as if that was less "offensive" than including the native class to begin with), when they'd previously handled Wild Arms 3 for Sony out here and had seemingly no issue with the Native American styled Baskar Tribe (which include Gallows as a main character).

!!!

Using items and/or spells depletes the bar. If the bar is depleted, you can't use items or spells, you need for it to recharge.

I'm in a weird spot where I want to start the third chapter of TitS but I never finished the second one and I don't even know if the wizardry I had to do to make my contorller work will screw things up for my new one forcing me to reinstall and maybe losing the save.

Anything else decent released on PC this year?

trunks and goku clone
every time
like I like the games to a point but come the fuck on enough of trunks, goku and friends

Also playing Children of Zodiarcs, it's OK, the combat is half interesting but it hasn't managed to hook me and too often I feel I'm abusing the AI.

What new-ish jrpgs can you recommend?

Finish SC first. Also, mouse only is the max comfy way to play TitS.

I'm going to need to figure out if it's possible to chain standard guard against those attacks, or if I'm just going to have to chain a backstep into a guard to reduce the damage taken. I'd prefer the former, since the latter's backstep consumes 25% Strage to use each time, but if you get hit by part of the combo, it seems like you're stuck taking the rest of the damage the attack would have done. I'll have to play around with it a bit more next time I find something like that.

Ah, the way you'd mentioned it made it sound like you'd have to strategically choose when to even do a regular attack. Yeah, I'd say that that sounds pretty similar to a mix of .hack//G.U.'s Skill Trigger cooldown, as well as Tales' item usage cooldown. Main difference being both being that with Tales you are expected to use artes often once you get a variety enough to combo with, while with G.U. skills are to be used more sparingly.

Define how far back you're counting "new-ish" as. I mean, just current releases, or, say, back through seventh gen?

After ps2

What consoles do you own?

a pc

How do you feel about ports of older games?

Is the game itself any good? I'm not a pleb who plays localizations, but I've never really been interested in Dragon Quest until seeing this one.

I'll allow it

The battle system doesn't really matter since you mainly use spells to kill every enemy on screen at once.

They Ys series and The Last Remnant.

JRPG used to refer to the specific style of RPG
your party would consist of set characters who have a direct voice in the plot instead of a main cast (of varying size) made exclusively by the player who ultimately just react to the plot instead of participating in its unfolding

the industry used to call these nihon-shiki RPGs (japan-style), and a number of games in the style have been made in the west (faithfully mimicking the style are Septerra Core and Costume Quest, whose characters are active participants in the plot. Coming close are Baldur's Gate and KotOR, which have preset characters for party members but who are not particularly active in influencing the plot's unfolding)

similarly, Japan has produced a number of western style RPGs, from entries in the Wizardry series (jap bitches love wizardry) to King's Field and Dark Souls

It's Toriyama. He's only got so many faces to go around. Frankly, if he had never made Dragonball and wrote shorter stories like Sandland and Kajika you'd probably give the similarities a full pass

ZnK Jesus this game is crack.

Thank Aidios for fan translations.

Is she a Jester or something? I dig that idle animation.
Was that a dual skill? Did she just puff-puff to max tension? If so, that's really interesting. I might be willing to try this on 3DS.

That's a garbage definition because that could be applied to any game where you play as a character. Devil May Cry is therefore a roleplaying game by that logic

So I'm back on TitS: SC. There's an orbal shutdown and I'm not really sure what it does (gameplay related at least). I got a message saying arts couldn't be used unless I had some field generator thing, and that Tita wouldn't be able to use the cannon, so what the fuck can she do?

I decided to put off Cross after I finished and instead started playing the DS rerelease of Trigger.
So far it's looking like a vastly improved port. Frog not having a random accent strikes me as an improvement, if not for consistency's sake than because Dragon Quest localizations post-8 have completely ruined that sort of thing for me.
That animated cutscene when you meet Robo was pretty nice, too. Makes me wonder if the game would've benefited from modern 3D graphics, as the condition Robo is in during that cutscene is far worse than his in-game sprite shows.
Though frankly I couldn't trust modern Square-Enix with not fucking up an actual remake of the game these days. At best they'd funnel devs and money away from it into whatever sinking ship they've been producing for the past ten years.
Also, the game is far easier than I remember it being. Like, the only legit difficult fight in the game is Lavos's final form, and even then only because it can suddenly start hitting for around 600 damage when the HP cap is 999. And that cap is ridiculously easy to hit if you do all the sidequest stuff at the end of the game.

The DS port is indeed pretty good, between both having an improved English script, the PS1 versions' FMVs, and none of the PS1 version's notorious loading problems (though I'm not certain if the PSN version suffers the same, or just playing it off the PS1 disc). The additional content though is rather hit or miss. Lost Sanctum is a slog to complete, and a number of people would rather the retroactive connections to Cross (via those vortexes) not be present. Both are completely optional though (and I did enjoy how one of the vortexes finally gave Singing Mountain an actual place to play in the game).

I seem to recall there being an attempted 3D fan remake, but Square shut it down. Really though, you have to remember that the FMVs were added retroactively in the PS1 port. More a case that the FMV doesn't match the game sprite than the game sprite not matching the FMV.

I certainly wouldn't trust them to remake (or even complete) Xenogears properly either. Though, from what I remember, Square deemed sales of the DS version, a game that had already come west twice before (though the DS port was the first official PAL release) to have been too low to show more interest in continuing the series. "If fans wanted more Chrono, they'd have bought more of the DS release" was the statement, or something around that. Of course, that hasn't kept them from porting Trigger around further to the VC, PSN, and phones since then.

Read the text my illiterate man. You have field generators in your inventory, equip them.

I looked for it, also looked in orbs and I couldn't find it, I guess I'll have to look again.

It's an accessory.

Does jRPG refer to the country the game came from (Japan), or does it refer to a particular style of RPG that was popularized by the Japanese?

It refers to RPG made in Japan.

So would that make something like Dark Souls a jRPG? Because when I play something like Chrono Trigger and then Dark Souls, they seem worlds apart although they are both Japanese.

Yes

Yes, Age of Empires is also world apart from Dawn of War, yet, they are both western RTS.

It's debatable, I gave my answer in with a correction in

Slowly picking through BoFIV, and my unfinished Nocturne playthrough is calling to me

Style of game. "Game with any amount of RPG mechanics that comes out of Japan" is a meaningless distinction. There's no point in having a term if the definition is so broad that it includes almost everything

So does Tales of Berseria have any depth to the combat? So far it just seems like randomly mashing buttons. Also I'm on the second highest difficulty and barely taking damage, should I up it to the highest?

No. The slightly longer answer is that it's a slightly polished version of the dogshit presented in Zestiria, which itself was a broken and crappy reinterpretation of the best combat system to ever Grace the series. However, a polished turd is still a turd. If you're looking for depth, look in a different Tales.

Bestiria is to be played to completion, for completions sake, and then swiftly forgotten. Magilou is good though and deserved better.

The "style of game" argument is a completely and totally asinine EC tier argument as their are a wide variety of games that are mechanically distinct from one another yet still fall under the label of JRPG. It's just sophist feeling is what determines where a game falls rather than what mechanics it has and how it's structured overall.

Is this bait?

Not an argument boyo.

The "style of game" definition fails because it ignores the variety that exists among JRPGs it's that simple mate. Valkyrie Profile isn't like Valkyria Chronicles which is nothing like Strange Journey which in turn is distinct from Xenoblade which is nothing like Dragon Quest which isn't similar to Etrian Odyssey which in turn has nothing in common with Ys.

Alright niggers, I just started playing this. Sell me on this game. Any tips to not get fucked over?

Look up a photography guide so you don't miss any scoops.

Is there any chance that game will be released for pc?

If you're a completionist then you might want to use a photography guide so you don't miss anything
Aside from that just have fun, it's really great

Thanks nigs, I'll keep a photo guide handy.

He's referring to JRPGs as well, RPG implies that it relies on a system instead of button inputs for the gameplay, hence sloppy classifications like ARPG.

It can, but generally speaking when I see JRPG it refers to something that is mechanically or aesthetically related to the Dragon Quest series as well as final fantasy. Those games informed such a wide swath of japanese RPG design. So looking at stuff like fixed character identities, linear plot, fixed character progression, a battle map of characters lined up on opposite sides of the screen. Stuff like that

Keep in mind that JRPG's as a regional descriptor includes more design elements than what I just listed and even then they can outright resemble what would be considered western RPG's (and vice-versa). But there are reasons why games like BoFV: Dragon Quarter and Demon's Souls are atypical for the region.

Nothing says every Japanese game with even the most cursory rpg mechanics needs to be an RPG. You're actually making a circular argument, and engaging in the sophistry you complain about.
In other words
There's no formal argument as to the sensibility of [muh game] being part of the category. Instead it's just assumed at the outset, and the only way for someone to agree with your argument is to agree with your presupposed state

The bait comment wasn't an argument, it was an out so you didn't look like a retard

My bad

God damn it OP.

How are any of the games listed up there not RPGs? That aside the goal of genre is to objectively describe how a game will work mechanically and how do you accomplish that when you're only identifier is 'sort of like Final Fantasy and/or Dragon Quest'

Where does that leave games like Etrian Odyssey, or Vagrant Story which are not like either of those games?

I made a post about RPGs specifically here:

An RPG can be clearly defined. A JRPG, being a subset of an RPG, must then further exclude other types of RPGs in a mechanically meaningful way. Strange Journey, FFT, Tales of Berseria and Breath of Fire 3 are not the same in a core mechanical sense beyond all being RPGs, so there's no point in having another term that encompasses all of them for non mechanical reasons unless you're a weeb. For the record, first person RPGs in the style of Etrian Odyssey are generally called Dungeon Crawlers, Valkyria Chronicles is a TRPG and RPGs that run in real time and depend more on player inputs than game systems are typically called Action RPGs. Your game can be a hybrid (as Action RPGs, for instance, already are) but it doesn't make sense to have the core definition include games that are fundamentally different from a mechanical perspective. Genres and sub-genres are there to sort and identify, not to include everything you like just for reasons

Also

I agree that RPG's need to be defined by Mchanics. But what about BoF3 makes it not a JRPG? It's in the same school of mechanics as Golden Sun for the most part outside of some dragon gene mechanics.

I didn't say it wasn't a JRPG, I said it wasn't the same subgenre as FFT or Berseria- the former being a game about, effectively, tactics on a game board, and the latter having combos and being action-oriented. Perhaps I should have worded that a bit more clearly

It's clear now.

Nice try, regardless it's nice that we've reached. What exactly is the point then of JRPG when you already have the term light RPG to describe games like BoF, Dragon Quest and the like when the word light RPG suffices just fine trying to tie that to some absurd notion that this is some distinctly uniquely Japanese style is just asinine.

Because nobody uses that term.

And?

The point of JRPG is to use a term that is commonly understood to mean a specific type of game.

In what context? In this very thread we're using examples of JRPGs that diverge completely from the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. Calling Twewy a JRPG doesn't really give you any idea of what the game is going to be. And if we go outside of Holla Forums that term get's even looser. How useful of a term is JRPG really?

Never played TWEWY, so I dunno if I'd classify it as a JRPG or not.

My point is that terms are mainly defined by how they are used, even if it doesn't make sense. If you're going to nitpick the literal definition of the term then you'd have to start with RPG itself, since "role playing game" would encompass pretty much every game there is.

And my point is that genres should be accurate to the thing that they're trying to portray otherwise they have no use and should be changed. Referring to a JRPG as anything other than an RPG from Japan just doesn't work unless you wsnt to arbitrarily box out a huge number of Japanese RPGs for the sake of exclusively referring to that handful of games that's sort of like Dragon Quest, and at that point you should be using another term entirely.

Especially when you consider how the majority of modern JRPGs are moving away from the DQ style light RPG archetype. And yeah we can talk all day about how RPG barely works anymore but that's it's own can of worms entirely.

They are, as points out. JRPG refers to the origin of the genre. It's not arbitrarily boxing out other games, they just arent the same thing. Similarly, an RPG isnt any fucking game with a character in it, because vidya RPGs stem from oldschool Dungeons and Dragons, and tabletop rpgs more broadly.

It does work, as long as you're not one of the retards that takes the phrasing literally

Also, "light RPG" falls into the same issues you claim JRPG and RPG do. It's also "character action game" tier.

What does Light RPG mean here? What is a regular RPG as opposed to a "light" one.

I just finished Etrian Odyssey 4 on 3DS and I want to play another 3DS JRPG. Thinking about one of the Dragon Quest games maybe.

What I really want is a game that's very long. Having a big world, varied and changing scenery/enemies, and just generally a lot of 'content' is what I'm looking for. I want a game that really feels like a journey.

I find it hilariously more racist because communists love to pretend history is racist while projecting their asses off doing retarded shit like replacing it with something even more racist in context. It's Communist Manifesto bullshit.

Not much to say, it's a pretty great game. You don't really need to bother with the post-game dungeon, I guess?

Play a bunch of Golf and Fishing, get medals, and get the kitty bikini for Monica.

If you want another EO game, play PQ, it's better than both EOUs in my opinion. However, the best JRPG on the 3DS is Crimson Shroud, which is the writing of Vagrant Story and FFT (same writer/director) in an intimate, DnD style short story. Music and gameplay are great as well.

Communism is just the ascendancy of the Vaisya. It can not sustain itself, as it has to infect itself with Kshatriya values to perpetuate itself.

The bar for hottest girl begins at Quistis Treppe

Xenosaga.

The thing is it is more or less distinctly japanese.

Is Recettear a JRPG?
If so, any recs similar to it?

Same group made Chantelise and Duo Princess, both of which are well regarded, but not item focused. You might want to try the Atelier games. They're not my cup of tea but they've got similar gameplay loops.

Oh yeah, there's one in PC I think now.
Is Sophie > Firis or viceversa?

I just started playing Laplace no Ma. You create a character, gather a party and explore this haunted mansion. What I really like about it is the way it handles MP. In addition to being used for magic, your characters' MP decreases every time something freaks them out, sort of like the sanity meter in Eternal Darkness, and if one of your characters completely runs out of MP they go insane and act the way confused characters act in other JRPGs. Other than that it's alright, if a bit grindy at times.

I think OP knew exactly what he was doing.

I think I've heard that the 3DS Dragon Quests, at least VII anyhow, have some fuckery with the English script, and not just in terms of the now standard accenting. I could be wrong though.

Sounds neat, also like Shadow Hearts' sanity gauge, albeit from the sound of it it doesn't restore to full after combat.

Is the fan-translation actually 100% complete though? I think last time I caught a glimpse of it it was still at ".9X" or something. I know some teams opt to eventually just call what was meant as a beta release "finished" and not make a "v1.0" or whatever, but that's not always the case.

:^)

No, all of the options on the battle menu are "special", but you can figure out what each one does after you experiment(top left is attack, top right is magic, bottom left is guard, bottom right is items, etc.) aside from that I've haven't come across any other issues with the script so far. One thing I forgot to mention, you can talk to ghost enemies in the game if you have a decently trained psychic in your party. If you have a weak psychic the ghost will misinterpret what you say as an insult and start attacking you.

Why wouldn't the menu options be translated? Seems like one of the first things that would be done in fan-translation, to make sure the game is at least playable even if the story doesn't get a finished English version.

So basically this game is dogshit compared to Sweet Home? Gotcha.

I've played a bit too, seems cozy.

Builders is great if you liked DQ1-3, you shouldn't miss out.

I've checked online for information on how exactly they're supposed to work and have gotten absolutely nothing. I suppose it doesn't help matters when it's a game very few people bothered to play. I do know there's at least one other user around here that's played the game before, and who might have the answer, but I have no clue if this is the sort of thread he'd bother with.

At least I've discovered that accessories transfer back to your inventory when you're done possessing someone, so you can equip them on the next person instead of having to buy one for each person.

I've never understood these discussions about what a JRPG is. For me who have been playing them for a while: I know it when I see it. Or even hear it. They are THAT distinct.

Playing ff seven

I have been playing Legend of Legaia recently, and I was wondering what other JRPGs lets you to either dress your character, or the armor you purchase, changes the texture/sprite/model of your character?
I know Rogue Galaxy has a few costumes as well, but only a few, and I only found one for the main character.

Also does anybody know, why this isn't a standard feature in JRPGs, whereas in many WRPGs it is?

JRPGs have more gear progression, for the most part, and so you would either have 1001 recolours, or the game would take even longer to produce for a feature that a surprisingly large % of the playerbase wont notice

Then there's the fact that the way characters are designed and differentiated from each other often extends to their outfit, and so you wouldn't want to have them suddenly swap to generic armor, and custom armor sets for each runs into the problem outlined above

It's not that they cant do it, it's moreso that it would take more time than many dev teams/publishers likely think it's worth. It is a nice feature to have though

Just beat BoFIV yesterday. Kinda abrupt at the end there. I do feel like it was a bit of a step down from III, but not awful or anything. Last dungeon was a weird change of pace though, what with all the death spells, 1k+ damage basic hits and lucky strikes getting tossed around. My next game is gonna be finishing the last stretch of Nocturne, or completing DDS. I might end up going back to Romancing SaGa somewhere in there as well, but that game is more of a "chip away at it" sort of deal for me. It's fucking fantastic though

Played disgaya 5 demo on piss4, it was good. Someday i own niggerndo snitch for best goy edition.

Materia system is superb. Customization sufficient to sustain interest, without overwhelming or resorting to random mook blank slate no blackstory characters.

Dragon quest ix is garbage.

Fran
Seraphina
Lulu
Even pokyman was spankable back in the gay

Yeah, but so do games like Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls.

I think this is the main reason in the end, plus a JRPG party can also have different races, with different proportions, weapon of choice and so on, and as you say once you all have them wearing plate armor they loose a bit of their individuality. On the other hand, if what differentiates characters is how they are dressed, then aren't they shallow characters with almost no personality?

I love BoF3, and I'm looking for more like it, but more recent. Anything you can recommend?

The Chrono and Xeno games are not connected, no matter how many times you repeat yourself. And Chrono Cross was a disaster no one should touch.

By this logic Call of Duty is part of Mega Man cannon because you can take enemy weapons.

It is, there were World Wars in Megaman too, they're just not referred to because they happened in the past

You can tell him how wrong he is over and over, refute his points properly, and he'll just act like it never happened in the next relevant thread. Reminds me of a particular quote about how you can shut down the argument of a member of a certain (((tribe))) one day, and they'll act like it never happened the next.

This isn't helped either by the fact we still don't have a properly functioning archival system here.

My negro.

Tales of Berseria. I saw it on Steam in the RPG section, saw the decent rating and decided to give it a pirate (because fuck Denuvo). It started kinda slow with the whole peaceful village prologue, but once it gets going, holy shit. The combat is pretty dope, though it takes a long time until the entire complexity of the combo system unlocks, but the story is fucking great and the characters really grow on you. I'm a sucker for characters done well and despite the initial appearances, the whole cast is great and none of them suffer the typical JRPG bit where you just want to bench some characters and never look back. None of the main cast can get any break, each has some sort of fuck up that has messed them up hard, yet they keep going.

Why the fuck does Bamco hate money so much to pull the Denuvo shit, I would've bought this game instantly if it wasn't for it.

I'm playing Rogue Galaxy, breeding my super insects in chapter 7 to win the insectron league.

Also grinding my way into hell to make the best weapon ever.

Is starting to get boring, but I love fusing stuff.

Don't remind me. The fucking AI cheats, they don't have a limit on their bug stats like you do.

My bugs have limit on their stats? Can't I breed them into 99 everything?

The AI can go over 99 is what I mean.

Oh my god.

I suppose that depends on what you liked about it. I haven't found anything that compares to the gene system, but if you're not set on that being in there might be something out there

It wasnt THAT bad

Wipe that mouth with soap, little girl.

Every armor in Radiata Stories changes the main character's appearance.

I want to try Dragon Quest but I feel like I don't have the capacity to pay attention to JRPGs if I didn't play the series when I was younger. I still haven't beaten Wild Arms and that game has an actually neat setting. Just no motivation to keep playing, and I'm 10-ish hours in, I think? Haven't touched it in a long ass time.

Live a Live is a great recommendation to someone new, I enthusiastically second it. It's not hidden per se, but I feel like it's only talked about in passing most of the time.

Valkyria Chronicles and Resonance of Fate come to mind. I'm still waiting/hoping for a PC port of RoF as my PS3 isn't with me right now and that game, while repetitive as fuck when you learn the proper strategy, is still satisfying to me to play.

Dragon Quest VIII feels more like a western RPG than a JRPG so that's a good entrypoint

What's the best version to get? PS2 or 3DS? I know there was a shitstorm over censoring outfits in the 3DS version but a mod game out for homebrewed 3DSes making it mostly a non-issue.

The PS2 is probably the best version to get, but if your PC can't emulate it or you can't get a physical copy then the 3DS version is probably the absolute easiest to get a hold of. I hear there's a version for Android too but I would avoid that at all costs

Depending on how picky you are, it looks like you can get a complete used copy for under 30 bucks on (((Amazon))) if nothing else. I grabbed the android version just to see how shit it was and it might be the most competent mobileshit port I've seen. Wouldn't recommend it if you have a shit phone though

Xenoblade does so, wherein every weapon and armor equip visibly changes the character model, and Avalon Code also does so to a partial degree (given how damage is handled similar to Legend of Zelda, armor acts more like an accessory worn over the character's normal clothes, and weapons have particular models as well). I want to say I think I've also heard that Blue Dragon: Awakened Shadow might do so as well, but I can't personally say if it does or not. I've only ever seen that game out here once and it seemed too expensive for what it was for me to pick up.

I suppose it could depend on if you played a lot of them growing up or not. A friend got me into JRPGs maybe six or so years back now, and I've got little problem actually sticking with them, and do't exactly feel burned out.

Not like it's hard or pricy to get a PS2 copy of Dragon Quest VIII. One of the cheapest and easiest to find PS2 JRPGs in my experiences (up there with the likes of FFX, FFXII, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time, and Xenosaga Episode I; think the only easier/cheaper ones to find are Evergrace and Eternal Ring, mainly because there's a LOT of copies around in my experience with shops here and very little demand for either).

that is to say, I wouldn't recommend playing it on Android at all, but if you're keen on having it on your phone then I would recommend you have a decent one

Radiata Stories was so good, but it felt so short. Sequel never ever.

Like pottery
Now I just gotta punch the fuck out of everyone and give YVWH the finger. This game is great and I wish I had played it earlier

I mean, I played the everloving fuck out of Chrono Trigger, Golden Sun, Live A Live, Evolution: Worlds, various Tales games, Digimon World 3, SMT:Strange Journey, Persona, and more recently Resonance of Fate. Just never played a lot of Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, or other big name JRPGs like Breath of Fire, Suikoden (Which is a tactics game, I think), Grandia, and so on. Heck, never beat Skies of Arcadia Legends despite having a hard-on for Sky Pirates. But getting into Wild Arms was neat at first and really lost my attention after a few hours. The story is somewhat neat but I feel like combat drags on and the setting isn't quite what I was hoping for when I thought of a spaghetti western RPG. I also tried playing Metal Max Returns but every time I get a few hours in, I fucking forget what I was doing and lose interest. I don't think I've ever progressed the story in that game. Only ever had one tank.

I don't know if it's just my tastes changing or what, but not even Valkyrie Profile 2 was keeping me coming back to it, and that's a pretty good game.

To be honest, I haven't had a lot of experience with Square yet myself. Namely because I'd hear stories of how some people would wind up only playing Square's offerings, act like those were the pinnacle of the subgenre, and ignore what else is out there, and wanted to avoid falling into that trap. Dragon Quest, SMT, and Final Fantasy are definitely series I need to give more of a go (and for some reason, I seem to have some real trouble getting into Final Fantasy; not calling them, at least the classic era ones, bad, but it's been hard trying to find a personal draw to them despite attempts with various entries).

Having played and loved all the main series, they're not spaghetti western proper, though WA3 is the most western in tone. From what I know, they fall more into the "Weird West" category due to the mixture of western, fantasy, and sci-fi in varying ratios.

That series is mixed traditional, tactics, and duels as far as combat goes to my knowledge.

Anyhow, maybe you just need to the right sort of mood to really get into those ones you've been having issues with, especially if it's a long game or a long series (of potentially long games). With me, one of my main problems is just how big my backlog is in general: having access to a lot of different games at once (and in some cases, having no real reason to "get your money's worth" when you didn't pay anything anyhow) can lead to some major indecisiveness on just what to even start next once I finish with something.

Jesus, I don't remember how the fuck I beat some of these bosses last time I played Chrono Trigger. With Retinite I used a strategy I know I wouldn't have thought of last time, and now I can't remember how to not get two-shotted by Son of Sun. It's making me feel like an idiot since I know this is an easy game. I also could've sworn I had Luminaire by this point in the game last time.

The Suikoden games are mostly traditional with some tactical battles here and there. The main draw of the series is the ability to have your own castle, 100+ party members, and more sophisticated than average stories. There is also a TRPG spinoff, which is pretty par for the course for that genre. It's worth playing if you're into that.

New hair color keeps making me think of slurpees.

What I've heard so far points to it being good and closest to DQVIIIs experience which is babies first DQ.

My best guess is that she got hit by a Sultry Dance which forced her to do that.

There's dual skills, even triple if I'm remembering the one video I saw on youtube, right.

Get ready to tap into your inner Captain America!
It's a fun game but the randomly generated dungeons lose their interest fast.
DO NOT SELL YOUR EQUIPMENT AT THE END, YOU WILL NEED IT LATER

Every time I ask this in DQ threads, no one ever gives me an answer. All I know is that they may have made Maribel even bitchier than she apparently already was.

Only difference is in graphics since they took out a lot of trees for the 3DS version.
The 3DS version though having its censorship from being forced by the Jap rating board becoming stricter; is likely the better version to get barring SEs shit localization since it has a lot more content. Heard they ripped out the orchestral soundtrack to replace it with Midi (the opposite of what they did to DQVIIIs original PS2 version).