Nipponese Learning Thread: ツンデレ先輩 Edition

Its time to learn moonrunes, user.

I'm looking for rips/scans of Tanoshi Nihongo (Joyful Japanese) texts/audio levels 1 to 3. That was the set my high school used.

Also what do people think about Rosetta Stone for Japanese?

youtube.com/channel/UC_IOGB9Y0qJJ7Lx-yth0rpw/featured
This girl taught me to count to 100. I liked it. For some reason, her channel has been obliterated.

Tried using it to learn Spanish, it was quite tedious in that it was both unintuitive and time consuming. It just shows you pictures of everyday items - like chairs, a door, a car, etc - and then tells you how to say those words in the target language. Then, it will sometimes go over basic sentence structure by giving you an incomplete sentence and asking you to fill in the blank with a multiple choice answer. It will also sometimes play an audio clip and ask you to speak the sentence into the microphone, though these exercises are optional. I didn't like it, I prefer Anki.

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REMINDER: YOU CAN'T LEARN JAPANESE!

1934
Kanji memorized. So excited to be almost finished with the first RTK book.

Two things I've learned when it comes to kanji writing practice:

Daily reminder.

y'all summonin' a dragon or what?

samefag

Just report and ignore them, same as you would Goons like these anywhere else

I am sorry, how did you catch that form their posts? Did you accidentally read them in japanese or something?

I do not understand how you came to that conclusion. Are you in denial?

間違って、ニッガーちゃん

hownew.ru

Planning to be an archaeologist?

Are you a female

i noticed

I tried Rosette Stone back when I was first starting out, but it didn't help much.

Looks like you are writing 糸 wrong.
jisho.org/search/糸 #kanji

I'm going to start learning kanji and vocab either today or tomorrow. How many should I aim for? How difficult will 30 be?

If you mean Anki then start out low. Doing more may seem easy at first, but when the reviews start piling in you will be overwhelmed fast.

If after a month or two you still feel like it's not enough, then raise your new cards by like 5 or so.

Rosette Stone for any language is pretty bad, I tried using it before but it was really pretty useless, over priced garbage.

His 糸 looks fine to me, but all of the kanji on the whole page look too large, and he also doesn't have any of the readings. Whatever works for you man.

Have some music for inspiration.

you've wrote the same one 3 times

Nah, it's definitely wrong. Looks like he copied the computer font version rather than looking up the proper handwriting method.

Yeah, I see what you're getting at. Most of his kanji look pretty off to me. I write mine more like oekaki, the top part in one stroke.

Looks like he is using a stroke for each straight section in 幺 instead of

Other than 糸 and 辶, two things that stick out to me are the 言s, the top stroke of which is usually slanted top left to bottom right or is vertical, and characters such as 良, 銀, 食, 退, 即, 衣 and 表, where the bottom horizontal stroke which connects to the leftmost vertical stroke should be all one stroke not two separate ones, so that it looks similar to a レ. If you want more natural looking handwriting, I'd recommend learning some stroke order and of course getting some exposure to handwritten stuff.

バンプ～

Thanks for the critique. the 糸 always confused me, and I admit I haven't been doing the 辶 correctly either. I think I've been trying to copy the computer font too closely, and ignoring the actual stroke order.

I can't learn nip

It's age

how old r u, nig

Hopefully the wrong writing hasn't become too ingrained in your memory. Look up the kanji on Jisho for proper stroke order.

I begin now. Tell me how much am i going to need to practice ?

A lot

I'm a wizard, no excuse. Also vid related.

Here's some advice;Never put a concrete deadline for something like "full fluency" because that is a nebulous idea because even the majority natives don't have full understanding.Hell even in cases in which the language is closer to english still have you learning in your older years.Basically don't burn yourself out because there is no solid learning deadline unless its self-imposed

reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/6q4h6a/a_year_to_learn_japanese/dkuskc2/

This actually seems like a good guide despite most people can probably do it faster without burning out.

how do i get anki to let me review the cards i want to review?

Assign a tag to them and go to custom study > tag

A year is not enough.

Anki schedules the reviews for you. The system it uses is more efficient than cramming.

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Nigga I ain't clicking a reddit link.

It's a learn japanese board, how cancerous do you think it can be?

as cancerous as reddit.

Wanikani experiment is over. I suppose if you have no prior knowledge it may be good but I'm just head butting it's chosen word system.

Knowing Reddit, they probably only want to learn Japanese to try and spread their SJW shit to video game developers.

Just screw Anki, user.
Go review the Kana another way. Get your shit together.

Reddit is a bad site overall, but it's just a thread about learning Jap. Stop being a pussy.

STOP BEING A GAIJIN

Very ignorant of how conservative Japanese people are and how some of them hate foreigners. They're likely weebs.

Right, and the people ITT are the opposite

To be fair in my experience most of the foreigner hate is aimed at the Chinese because they're just the most obnoxious fucking tourists in the world.

Anons itt would have more in similar.
People here are doing it more for vidya and porn anyways.

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I actually want to go to Japan and live there for a while. I don't care if they hate me since I'm hated here too anyway for not being a commie.

It's reddit, so very.

Archive exists.

Thanks, user, this makes me feel alright, specially since I'm slowly but steadily starting to understand what I hear in japanese and what I'm reading.

As long as you're not a dickwad and at least make a token effort to learn basic phrases you should do alright never had any problems in the two years I've been here

Do any anons know of any good handwritten fonts besides the few in the COR?

I made this from a kind of old version of the KanjiVG svg files so some of them may look a bit off, but this is based on what everyone uses when they want to teach stroke order. Although be warned, the font doesn't work well at small font sizes; anything below [email protected]/* */ will probably start to cause aliasing issues.

the .ttf file is zipped in the image

Holy shit, pure cancer.

I guess they have some of the same problems we have.

Ronnie dropping knowledge.

An EOP isn't going to be able to tell if the translation is correct, dubs or not.

how about these dubs though?

Subs aren't OK either though, you need to translate it for yourself.

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I can't fucking do it.

Hit the books user.

What the fuck book would that be? Draconian 101? Moon runes for Humans, Hobbits and Dwarfs? Dragonspeak for dummies?

Nipponese for Kusobakas

If you love vidya you can and will learn Japanese

You call me a shitty dummy again and I'll summon Namasensei's wrath down on you, you bitch.

Okay.jpg

You should apologize to Namasensei for being such a pussy.

If middle school nip children can learn 2 million kanji then you can learn basic nip.

How long does it take to learn?
Or at least, when do you feel it starts to take effect and you start to recognize words in doujins and anime?

Depends how you study, and just your own natural knack for it. I took years, but I started with high school classes, which were so terrible that four years of classes came out to about a semester's worth of university classes for it though in part because the high school teacher we had was so terrible she got fired for incompetence the year after graduated.

How competent can you get with just using things like Rosetta stone?

I've heard somewhere along the lines of 4-5 years to achieve fluency.
Depends on how you mean "recognize", you could understand a bit with a few months learning.
Maybe not translation tier but still somewhat understand what's going on.

So as a new beginner how important is Katakana even? I have now memorized Hiragana almost completely. Should i do the same with Katakana? Apparently it´s only used for loan words in japanese. So i don´t know if it´s even worth the time.

yes

Originally perhaps, but nowadays it's used for onomatopoeia or to emphasize words like we might use capital letters in English. Also, there are some loan words that are practically part of the language now, and might either be not immediately recognizable to native English speakers (depaato for department, as in department store) or not even borrowed from English in the first place (arubaito is the word they use for part time work, borrowed from German)

ok, i guess there is no way around it then.

As a beginner, I've found Katakana to be the single most immediately useful thing I've learned to far, just because most of the loanwords are immediately understandable English if you just sound them out.

You'll learn things like "otokonohito ha hashitte imasu".
Congratulations, you now understand that it means the man is running.
In short, don't bother. It gives no incentive to learn the kana.

From what I've understand, when there is a non-japanese person speaking japanese in manga, they sometimes use katakana to emphasize they are speaking with an accent.
Or something along those lines.

I can't speak to this game specifically, but in my experience the self-proclaimed feminist is often just some ladies' man or some loser trying to get into girls' pants by showing how sensitive he is. Though I guess I've mostly encountered them in eroge.

Will using furigana fuck you over in the long run?

Yes. Don't get used to it.

The wrong side won thats why

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how should you weave learning new kanji and learning new vocab together? learn kanji that appeared in your vocab that day, or just learn some kanji every day while learning the vocab?

What I did was learn the 2000 jouyou kanji before even starting vocab.

thanks, do you have a specific reason why you chose to do this? just how you learn better, or basically for the same reasons learning the radicals is a good idea?

I just figured that would be the best way to do it. That way vocab is easier since I already know the kanji.

There's no one best way to learn though, so find what works best for you.

That´s true. If the axis had won, we all would speak perfect germanese by the time we reach high school.

Also nice quads

I am learning vocab and grammar first. Learning kanji without already knowing the words seems to be harder than necessary, and less rewarding. Doing that because I assume that you can start reading on a lower level before you learn kanji, and if you can do that, that's effortless practice right there. And if you think about it, when Japanese children learn a kanji, they probably already know the words, because they hear them all the time. They probably already recognize many of them from things that they read as well. So I think my approach makes more sense.

Anyway, I don't fucking know for sure what works better. It will probably be clearer when I'm done. I tried to do it the other way and didn't like it. It just seemed to be too much shit to do at once, and less rewarding. And it would take longer for me to be able to use it all, and that makes everything more difficult to review and practice. Now I can actually write a few different types of sentences.

Overall, maybe you should do whatever makes it easier for you to not give up. And don't even think about how long it will take. Just do it every day and forget about that. If you keep learning consistently, you should get there no matter how you do it.

I tried learning kanji on their own and learning radicals, but both of those methods were really boring to me. Now I just study vocab and enjoy that much more. It's easier for me to remember things that way, and it is more readily applicable to me. I can see the merits of a more in depth study of the kanji themselves, but I just want to be able to read shit at this point so I'm focusing on that. Find what keeps you motivated to keep learning I guess.

Just don't depend on them.

Some people can pick up on kanji slowly just by learning vocabulary. I usually recommend learning both at the same time though as each reinforces your memory of the other; It's easier to remember 漢字 if you know 漢 and 字 and likewise the other way around. I wouldn't recommend kanji before vocabulary as you can't really do much with just kanji. If instead of 2000 kanji you learn 500 kanji and 1500 vocabulary, then you can read simple stuff and reading really gives a boost to your learning capabilities and helps you nail down what you have learned. You by no means need all of the jouyou kanji to be able to consume media. If even still you feel kanji first is the way to go, I definitely wouldn't do them all at once without any vocabulary but instead do a smaller amount then learn some vocabulary which use those kanji and alternate often instead of focus on just one.

everyone is gonna have a different answer for this. i find that learning kanji first makes it easier to memorize vocab because otherwise you're just looking at a series of symbols with no inherent context. the optimal thing would probably be to only learn words that utilize the kanji you've learned but jltp isn't designed that way. you can do n4-3 & stuff like genki pretty much through rote memorization without much of an issue but once you get to n2, i've found the ambiguity of the words, not to mention the sheer volume is making that approach feel less useful. at this point, i'm focusing on learning smaller sets for specific manga & games and it seems to help retention a lot but idk if it would've to learn this way w/o the prerequisite n4-3 knowledge.

you're never gonna stop practicing in some form or another, but it can be good to set yourself smaller goals so you don't get demoralized or give up.

If it did then no Japanese would ever be literate because shounen manga and the like is full of it. Hell, Dragon Quest 11 has it too if you're a casual who plays in 3D mode instead of 2D mode Just like the others said, don't depend on them, use them as a tool to further your learning.

You mean as opposed to now where no one speaks German because Germany itself is an Arabic nation?

Fucking this. Motivation is the number one thing, so do whatever keeps you doing it.

I always wondered, isn't 「あほ」　wrote　「アホ」? Always thought it was engrish "Asshole", so it makes more sense to be written in Katakana.

Yeah, individual kanji have more or less the same meaning even if they are pronounced differently, which is retarded. But if you see something with 「金」　usually have to do with money or metal. Then again, you learn that by just going with vocab.

Well fuck, I am hitting a serious motivational wall right now because the only reason I decided to learn Japanese is next up on leftism's chopping block. What's the point in learning this shit if nip games of the future will be censored by the west even in the native version? man, I really wanted to be able to play future Xeno games in particular but that shit is already dead in the water

Nah. It just means "idiot"
jisho.org/search/あほ

What other aspect of japan or japanese do you like, user? Main reason to anyone ITT is for games. I doubt SJW will meddle with japanese media any time soon anyway, there's no proof of it, and if they try we should do something about it, like showing them the fact that we learn one of the shittiest and almost nonexistant languages just to see some tits.
Personally, my second motivation is Kamen Rider, I want to watch, read and play kamen rider as it is intended, and that would help me with old obscure vidya that wasn't translated either.

Keep going, user, you'll find the reasons, it will be worth it in the end.

You can say 馬鹿 in Kanto but not 阿保 and it's the other way around in Kansai.

It's in Katakana usually because when you use it you're putting emphasis on it due to emotion, like how in English you might see "You IDIOT!"

So far that's only been a thing with Xeno, which will hopefully bomb here. Even if not though, you still have 30 years of vidya to catch up on with Japanese knowledge, I know for a fact I'll die long before I finish my backlog personally.

You're a classy motherfucker user. This is for you.

what about impact?

the only thing keeping me going right now is the knowledge that eventually I won't have to rely on shitty fansubs in my anime or shitty translations in my VNs. Instead, I can provide my own shit interpretation

Anything sung by Aniki is amazing by default, so yes.

You will get to the point that you won't be able to watch things with English subs without nitpicking all the amateur mistakes they make.

OLD GAMES.

And if English is not your first language, you probably know pretty well that translations are always flawed, and knowing the original language is always superior. Don't give up. Even if you slow down.

it's too depressing, knowing that in a few years I'll never be able to enjoy a new game again

Not really. There are more good games already in existence than you can ever play.

Well, that's something that you should have realized years ago. But damn if I'm not excited about the hundred of obscure PC-98 games. New games are and still will be shit, but at least you can be sure that for every shit game, either western or japanese, the japanese will probably launch 2 good games and probably one of them will not be translated.

10/10 shed a tear. I usually listen to KR soundtracks to get inspiration.

I realized that was the case for western games years ago. until the news on Xenoblade Chronices 2 was revealed, I never thought it would start to infest nip games too

They'll still be making Super Robot Wars in the future, hang in there.

Rider music has that effect

I found out that swimming in japanese media helps with associating words.
For example, I found out that　「左」　it's　「光」　nit with a kana changed. And I only remember that because Hikari is an opening of Magi that I like a lot. Pretty neat.

Just wait till you can start playing games. You will start improving so fast you won't believe it.

Friendly reminder that you should always do your reps.
勉強してください、あなたは日本語を習ってが出来りますよ

shouldn't this be
勉強してください、日本語を習えるよ

Maybe, not sure, I'm still learning.

He clearly hasn't encountered Kanji.

reminder

what this user says is also one of the primary reasons i'm trying to learn jap. just think, it'll ALMOST be like getting to play game again without a butchered story, not to even mention all the jap-only games

Would you believe me if I told you that after a certain point kanji make the language easier to read rather than harder?

no

thank fuck I'm almost done getting new cards for this deck, this shit is getting unbearable

Just turn off new cards for a month or so.

I'm only two weeks away from hitting the last new card of the deck, I'd rather not delay it

If you say so. I'd do everything possible to avoid burn out though, even if it means delaying for a few months.

And I heard that the process naturally accelerates over time, as your brain kinda gets used to learning kanji. Also because later on you learn a lot more about combinations of kanjis that you already know. It's supposed to get easier eventually, and therefore quicker. If you already know the words, you can probably guess a lot of those very easily.

Being able to read should probably be your first major goal, because that must make things much easier. It's always easier to learn more about something that you naturally use all the time.

Well yeah, but don't expect to achieve that for a couple of years. Going from no knowledge to reading is where most of the work is.

While I understand the sentiment, it's true - it's hard for me to go back and play old Famicom RPGs for this reason alone sometimes.

I'd never try playing a Japanese Famicom or Gameboy game. Kana soup is too much of a pain.

Why do you think native speakers insist on keeping them? Even in korea, which mostly phased out hanja (kanji) for what is considered by many to be the closest thing to a perfect alphabetic script to ever be made, has decided to put hanja back into education because more people prefer them than dislike them.

The games are still worth playing, like the original Fire Emblem or the original MegaTen, but it's a chore to read.

You can be reading in less than a year, not without having to look up plenty of stuff along the way, but enough to give a boost to not only your motivation but your learning potential as well, enough to play some games.

Wish me luck guys. Also is there a way to save certain definitions and hiragana combinations with the rikaisama plugin on firefox? I am only able to save the very first definition to my anki deck which is very often not really the definition i actually wanted.

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この曲が好きです

megaten 1 & 2 got a remake on the snes that uses kanji

Just started on this journey today. Figured first thing to do would be practicing the hiragana so I could nail the association between the written symbols and spoken sounds into my head.

R8 my handwriting. Be brutally honest because I'm honestly not sure about the strokes.

Then look them up. Looks fine to me, except you don't have to learn ゑ or ゐ, you will never see them. except by hipsters like hideaki anno

-_-;

I was using a guide for the strokes, it's just that I was always very conscious, especially for the hiragana that had loops in them, of how wide or tall the characters were and it was fucking with my head. I only included ゑ and ゐ for the sake of completeness.

Your loops in the first stroke of は and ほ are a little too pronounced to be honest.

Looks like a good start. Keep in mind, there are different fonts and styles (including "cursive" equivalent). Knowing the common alternate forms (particularly for sa and ki) will help reading a lot.

Unrelated, but my professor once mentioned that certain styles look stereotypically girlish, just like in English handwriting. Overly round strokes are apparently girlish or childish.

is that writing in the pic Korean?

>sa and ki

I started playing some games in nip recently, I only started studying a few months ago so I have to look up most words but I notice my reading speed has increased a bit in just a few days. I'm starting to understand some of the grammar a little better, too. I hope I can keep this up.

It'll be slow at first, then it'll start getting exponentially faster.

What are some good games to start reading?

One that you've already played before.

Most important thing is for it to be a game you like and are interested in, because otherwise your motivation won't hold up. If you don't know many kanji yet, most Famicom and Game Boy games were kana only. Alternatively newer games may have furigana (Dragon Quest 11 and Ever Oasis most recently,) and any game with voice acting for the story dialogue can be good, especially if you can replay scenes (Bravely Default/Second for instance)

The last jap game i played that i can remember was Dragon's Dogma,i'll see it how the jap version is from youtube.

I know, wanted to read some basic like Yotsuba or Hanahira but i can't keep motiveted.
I was thinking about SMT or Persona, i fear they may be a bit too complex

Ungrammatical. I think what you were going for is 日本語を習う事が出来ますよ
You never ever use が after て like that.

Once you start getting down some of the key terms that get used a lot like 悪魔 and the like MegaTen isn't too bad. Persona's even easier to understand though anything after 2 is so boring it's impossible to stay interested

Can someone tell me how to use the "mega:///"-links again? I read it once but forgot it. Do I have to use Mega's shitty downloader?

Just put the # and everything after it at the end of mega.nz/

Thanks フレンド

While it's not correct, I fucking hate grammar fags because you've never actually had a conversation in Japanese with a native where 90% of the grammar goes out the window

This. We do this in English all the fucking time, something I didn't realize until I had to teach it too. For instance, when talking about regrets using "I wish I had/hadn't" we're supposed to use past participle verbs (eaten instead of ate, taken instead of took) but we use simple past a lot of the time too.

All right,i'll start with Persona 1 and 2 and then go to SMT.
Thanks user

No prob user, enjoy psychological trauma and repressed memories, then killing your friends after the apocalypse happens

A little bit what I'm talking about is more casual conversation. For example:

昨日飲みに行った、友達と、この前一緒の店で、メッチャ高かったけど、沢山呑んだから、まぁでも、ベッピンが多かったよかったと思ってるよ。

ええ、マジ？ 出来た？

当たり前のこったよ、俺誰と思うお前は。彼女ホテル連れていて、でもやっぱ駄目。

駄目っていう？

あ、鮪だった。

あぁー、最悪だ、それ。

I'm in a jap guild and was made one of the first officer, even if they know I'm not japanese, since I participated here and there and I try to write in japanese.

I roughly know how to make basic sentences, but I still cheat a bunch though, with a dictionary and a bit of google translate. orz
I need to continue anki, but I feel there's also something else missing, I'm not sure what.

Well there's a difference between written and spoken conversation in any language. You don't have as much time to think when you speak.

Fair enough yeah, it's more stream of thought type. Also

His fault for going for 3DPD

じゃあ、こうはどうだろう。

昨日はこの間一緒に行ったお店に友達と飲みに行きまして、沢山飲みましたから、大変高いでしたけれど、綺麗な女性が沢山いましたので良かったと思っています。

あ、そうですか。

そうです、女の子はホテルに連れていたんですけど、やっぱり駄目でした。

駄目といいますと？

あ、鮪でした。

あぁー、最低ですよね。

Now imagine listening to an old man that speaks like a redneck, meaning incomprehensible, for 2 hours while your trying to enjoy a beer.

Not gonna bump this because I just posted but just some enjoyment and/or motivation for those that can understand.

youtu.be/UGsRdUxgq_o

I just mean there's no such thing as beautiful 3D people, don't mind me.

Two of my favorite words

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Is Duolingo any good?

It's important to learn proper grammar first as a second language learner first and learn common abbreviations and shortenings afterward and only for the sake of understanding.
That's how all languages are taught.

I haven't tried the Japanese course, but that's because I tried the French, German, and Spanish courses and didn't like them.

Duolingo, at least in regards to those courses mentioned above, subscribes to a new-aged language teaching philosophy that completely deëmphasizes grammar.
I have actually written a research paper on this, and that line of thought has basically been completely debunked at every age group, but especially for everyone over puberty it is very worthless.
The best way to learn any language is to both grammar and vocabulary explicitly, through explicit preprepared rules and lists, and then make sure that you are practicing that with Conversational, listening, reading, and writing activities. Any structured grammar guide like Tae Kim or Genki will work (or maybe this Duolingo course is different, I don't know).
The second best is complete immersion, and even that is greatly improved by adding in a traditional education.

I still don't understand it. Doens't 本 mean book? Shouldn't it be Land of the sun book?
it's not just because 本 looks like an arrow, right?

本 also means "origin", though I think he was referring to the fact the Japan is in the far east and the next day starts around there first.

It can also mean "Source". Ergo, "The nation of the rising sun", it's not a perfect translation, but you can see where the meaning is more or less from, plus what you said.
One cool thing I noticed from Japanese is that even though vocabulary is shit when it comes to phonetics. all the symbols have a meaning that you can easily relate to guess what it might mean even when you don't know how to pronounce it. For example, while learning the days of the week you realize that you have [Simbol] [Day of week], but each symbol have a meaning. For example 「日曜日」 is [Sun][Day] and 「月曜日」 is [Moon][Day], dunno if it have an special meaning, but it's pretty cool when you get things like "Fireday", "Waterday", "Originday", "Metalday" and "Earthday". Even when it's something like 「大人」 it literally meand [Large/big][Person]. or just adult. Sure, maybe you don't know how to pronuinciate otona, but if you know what the individual kanjis mean you might get a fair idea of what it means.
It's really simple, but it's nice to notice those things, really, it's a fun language, if it wasn't for the retard-tier conjugation.

thanks doc

Thursday is 木曜日, not 本曜日.

The etymology is the days of the week are probably all the same as the English names. For example Tuesday:

When you know that Mars is 火星 in Japanese, then it all makes sense.

etymology of*

Plus Sunday (日) and Monday (月) are pretty clearly the same.

Oh, right, then it's even better, is "Woodsday".
I think the "elements" are something easier to remember. Also, I tried to think as an idiot jap would think back then and I think the elements makes more sense. Also, looking at Wednesday etymology, is unlikely that they did it as you said.

Or maybe is just me and my autistic way of making mnemonics.

Depending on when they were introduced to the Gregorian calendar, "back then" might not have been so long ago.

This is why kanji is actually pretty nice, once you get over the daunting task of memorizing thousands of characters. Even when I don't know a word, if I know the kanji that make it up I can make a decent guess at the meaning of it. And when reading I can still get the meaning of something even if I forgot the way to pronounce it. Plus reading sentences of nothing but kana can be pretty annoying.

I experienced HFO from electrocuting my dick with a tens unit. You should try it.

I'm still in the process of learning hiragana, but I have to agree. Once you get past the rather daunting task of disassociating Japanese words and grammar from English it's surprisingly easy to understand the fundamentals. Suddenly little things start to make sense, like the way that "ryu" is a common word despite appearing to break the consonant-vowel rule. Once you understand how that works you go "okay, I kind of get it now" and that's where the fun part begins: That's where the puzzle to piece together starts.

Nigger I leaned first from getting drunk at izakaya and bars with Japanese people and I have a good job at a jp company now and translate on the side. What you said is bullshit, unless you are fucking retarded like most people in this thread

What the duck are you talking about.りゅ doesn't break any rule. And how the fuck did the other guy fuck up 木 and 本??? I'm starting to belive in the "you will never leave Japanese shit" because you caggots are garbage

Yes, that's what I'm saying. To a layman, upon first hearing that Japanese word structure is based on a consonant-vowel pairing system, there is an immediate objection when it comes to words like "ryu," but it doesn't take much learning to understand how that works. What I'm saying is that it isn't as complicated and self-contradictory as it first appears. Thank you for attempting to illustrate my point for me.

Japanese syllable phonotactics is (C)(j)V(:/N/Q). If someone told you otherwise they lied to you for the sake of simplicity

See

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Formally taught yes, because in a formal teaching environment you want a structure of some kind so you can test progress more easily. Like says, there are plenty of people who learn via just diving head first into shit, usually out of necessity - my brother did a one year study abroad in France, didn't speak a lick of the language before going there, comes back a year later and I'm pretty sure his French is BETTER than his English because the whole time he was there not one person spoke English to him. French and English are, admittedly, closer languages to one another than either is to Japanese, but the point still stands that ぶっちゃけ本番 immersion can work wonders too.

github.com/megous/megatools

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In my defense, these simbols look a lot alike. I'm still learning, motherfucker, barely went past 100 kanjis plus the ones I learned by other means.

Basically, the only mandatory thing in Japanese is the verb? Tae Kim was right, then, I was worried for that equation thing.

Nothing is mandatory. Not even the verb. You will occasionally see sentences with nouns + particles only and a missing verb.

Like 別に

Yeah, because everyone has the possibility to just live for a fucking year in japan and soak in the language. That is totally feasible for most second language learners.
Everyone knows that the easiest way to learn a language is to actually live in the country and speak a lot. But for normal guys who have to learn for themselves and maybe read a book or watch anime every then and when, it´s pretty much a must to learn the language properly at first.

V means vowel*
We are talking about syllables not sentences.

Makes more sense.

Bullshit. English is my second language and I never had any formal knowledge other than what I looked for myself AFTER being able to properly post on english sites and boards. I still have some issues with the usage of have and has, but I'm able to bypass that in other forms. Sure, it took me most of my life and I'm still learning, but with a littke media is possible. Now the actual difference is how different Japanese spoken and written is. Even if you watch a lot of anime, if you don't onow the basis and basics of the language, you on't understand jackshit when reading.

You can definitively learn about a language just by having some basisnin spoken vocabulary or even read, after all, if you know the words by sound, it will be easier to remember them when you see them on paper.

Japan was referred as Hi no moto, の　wasn't written down so it's 日本.

Unless it's an Ateji.

I have never said that you absolutely can´t learn a language without teaching yourself formal knowledge. It just takes longer and isn´t really a smart thing to do, except if you´re constantly bombarded by that language. But i already spoke about that.
q.e.d. You could have probably been a lot faster if you had read some grammatic books or at least parts of it at some point in your life.

They did learn the english language quite a bit when they were occupied by the british commonwealth.

complete immersion is the fastest way to learn a language
Formal education (of certain kinds) will give you a better understanding and make your speech more correct
Doing both at the same time is ideal.

That´s exactly what i was trying to say.

Suspend obvious cards and duplicates so you don't waste time.

Using Core2k/6k, I've been learning the meaning of kanji and jukugo, then the pronunciation. Are there any resources that teaches you the pronunciation first, then lets you move onto kanji?

False. Space Dandy dub is better than sub.

any kind user can translate this page for me?
please

I'll be starting Tae Kim's grammar guide next week, any recommendations on how I should pace it? so pretty excited that I'll be able to read children's books in a few months

Just read through it once whenever you feel like it, and then refer back to it when you run into grammar you don't understand.

It took me about a month to get through, with studying an hour or two a day and taking notes on everything. You won't remember everything the first time around so there isn't much reason to devote a ton of time to it before starting to read stuff. Make sure you are learning a lot of vocabulary along with it too!

That's a fuckton of time though… You can just skim it before reading.

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This is the learning thread, not the translation request thread.

you can learn by translating. just translate it

NOW!!

Exactly, they should translate it for themselves just like we all did.

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Get started

Stop slacking off and just start, user.

Go away you demoralizing faker.

If you need some handholding vidya, the new Dragon Quest is up on FreeShop, and if you play in 3D mode it provides yomigana for everything 2D mode is reserved for adults who can read their fucking kanji

Don't they warn kids not to use 3D mode?

Not 3D mode as in 3D graphics, 3D mode as in the mode where the game plays like the more modern DraQue titles, like 7 and 8. 2D mode just makes the game play like the SuFami titles.

I see. I imagine the 3D mode is pretty downgraded from the PS4 version anyway.

It's the same thing as the PS4 version, you run around in 3D graphics and it's slower than it needs to be because you have to go through extra animations to do everything. The only reason to do it is for the yomigana if you're not good at reading yet.

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Gotta start somewhere. Keep at it.

The first two kanji are "Liquid" 液体 【えきたい】, the third I think is "person" 人 【ひと】, but the last one I have no idea.

Seems a stylized 間

I guess that's right.
人間 【にんげん】 human being
So 液体人間 liquid human? Oh, Kojima.

Hey do you think you could translate

"Please fix the Nuclear-Equipped Target tab in the iDroid, no players are shown!"?

I'm trying to get the Metalgear twitter to fix the fucking game, but there's only a jap managing it and the nigger can't speak a word of english

Fuck it user, you know what, I like Rockman, so have some translations.

I am actually an alien.
There's no way I'll lose to a mere robot created by earthlings!!
じつはワシは宇宙人だったんだ！！
そのワシが地球人のつくったロボットなどに負けるわけがない！！

N.. No fucking way!?
ま..
まさか！？

Even if you can't believe it, this is reality!!
What a goddamn fool you are for making me get serious!!
信じられなくてもこれが現実だ！！
ワシを本気にさせるとはばか

Whoa!!
This ain't no illusion!!
うわっ！！
これはまぼろしじゃないぞ！！

If Dr. Wily really is an alien,
もしほんとうにＤｒワイリーが宇宙人だろうと

then the son of a bitch will disturb earth's peace, so I can't lose to 'em!!
地球の平和を乱すやつに負けてはいられない！！

EAT ROCK BUSTER OF FURY!!
いかりのロックバスターをくらえ！！

Wa ha ha!!
That weapon won't work on me!!
ワッハッハ！！そんあ武器はわたしには通用しない！！

I-Is this motherfucker invincible!?
こ　こいつ不死身か！！

Even if I have to use all the weapons I have, I'll find this sonnova bitch's weakpoint!!
もっている武器をすべて使ってでもこいつの弱点を見つける！！

Anyone know what this means?
「と」と言ったら加速してしまう金閣‐ニコニコ動画

I see you subscribe to the Angel Cop school of translation

Also

The だろうと means it's more like an "Even if," so it should be more like "Even if Dr. Wily really is an alien, I can't lose to anyone who would disturb Earth's peace!"

I don't know how to interpret it, but I'll say what I understood.

と is to quote, in this case quoting と itself.
言った is the past form of 言う, I don't know the function of this ら after it.
加速 【かそく】 accelarion + TE form of する + します (しまう ?) = accelerate
金閣 【きんかく】golden pavilion
ニコニコ動画 is Nico Nico Douga

だろうと never means "even if", and in this case, it's used there to reinforce the expression of supposition, so a more precise translation would be something like "If I suppose Dr. Wily really is an alien…".

See だろう⑤

kotobank.jp/word/だろう-563470#E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.9E.97.20.E7.AC.AC.E4.B8.89.E7.89.88

Instead, だとしても would have been used to mean "even if" in the context of that sentence.

Also, やつ（奴） is particularly disparaging and pejorative in this context because Wily is not Rockman's chum.
See definition 二.
kotobank.jp/word/奴-143801#E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.9E.97.20.E7.AC.AC.E4.B8.89.E7.89.88

Oops, excuse me. It's
だろう③
仮想の事柄であることを表す。

Just to clarify, you're agreeing with me based on the third definition given there?

I don't understand these stats, though.

No, I disagree with your proposed translation. There is a nuanced distinction.
もし彼が犯人だろうと、辻褄が合う。
"If I suppose he is the culprit, it makes sense."
もし彼が犯人だとしても、辻褄が合う。
"Even if he is the culprit, it makes sense."

The first graph keeps track of the number of reviews for an allotted time. For example, for the past 15 or so days, you've done somewhere between 150 and 500 reviews. Reviews are defined as being shown a card you're already familiar with. The purple bar represents the number of "learn" cards, or the number of times you've seen a new card and have pressed "again" on it. Once you see a card a certain amount of times, that card becomes "young", meaning you should be at a point where you can recognize it immediately. If you fail to recognize it after a certain point (i.e. you select "again" on a card that is tagged as "young") then the program will count that as a "relearn".

Generally, you want to increase the number of young cards each day. You do this by getting your review cards right. Young cards will then become mature cards, and these cards should show up a lot less than the cards that you need to review. If you know the word 「木」 and you've memorized it, you should never have to press "again" on that card. The more times you select "good" the less often you'll see that card. According to your stats, you're in the process of learning a shit ton, and you have very little, if any at all, mature cards. In time this will change, providing that you keep reviewing on a regular basis.

The second graph shows you your future forecast, basically it's a prediction on the number of extra reviews you'll have to do in the future. Let's say you do a bunch today, but then skip a whole week. Well, guess what? You're going to have a huge number of reviews waiting for you when you get back. This graph basically tells you how many cards you'll be due over a period of time.

Don't know what to tell you mate, if I think of any examples of 「だろうと」 being used as "even if" I'll show you, but I can tell you for sure it's used that way quite often, including in the comic page shown.

It's never ever used that way to my knowledge, but I'd love to be proven wrong. Generally, if there's no も・さえ・すら in the original wording, "even" shouldn't be used in the translation.

Here's another contrasting example for だろうと vs でも・ても。

子供でも簡単にできる。
"Even a child can do it easily."

子供だろうと彼女を甘く見てしまった。
"I underestimated her, supposing she was a child."

I agree with 33561f. The と in this case is just a quote with an implied 思う/言う.

bump

reminder

God damn it, time to start asap.

You can't skip a single day. Make it a habit.

According to my notes, I currently know a little over 200 kanji and some ~500-600 words in total, plowing slowly through grammar. Pretty hyped.

Just like learn language.

God damn I am wasting my entire afternoon doing this bullshit. It isn't a motivation problem its an ADD problem and I refuse to get medicated for that shit. any anons know good ways to force yourself to focus?

How long are your daily reviews?

typically 30-40 minutes. Once I start, I usually can go uninterrupted. But getting myself focused enough to start anything is a real challenge

Either do less new cards so your review time goes down to a level you are comfortable with, or just take a break halfway through.

Or if it's really that bad, set a specific time that you have to study every day.

Ban yourself from masturbation until you do your reviews.

this isn't a problem just for studying. I have games I never played and books I never opened collecting dust because I can't bring myself to start without pacing for hours first

user, I don't have that kind of self-restraint

Cut your legs off, problem solved

What the fuck is the difference between [見つかる] and [見つける]?

見つける = find
見つかる = be found

One is transitive, one is intransitive.

Read here for more info
guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/in-transitive

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It's been 3 hours and I haven't even gotten past the opening with Saber.

Isn't that series infamous for being nonstop walls of text?

I wouldn't know, this is my first time playing. I only went ahead a little bit in English earlier to get an idea of what to expect.
It's not a lot of text, but I've been writing down every single kanji so far and trying to fully understand every sentence.

I hope my labour will pay off.

For comparison, it takes about 3-5 minutes to read the same text in English.

Enjoy your 30,000 hour 100% playthrough time then.

Fair enough I guess, as long as you find it interesting go for it then. Remember, the most important thing is keeping motivation, so if you're not enjoying it, don't bother.

Lots of writing,lots of obscure kanji,lots of "complex" writing,etc.
However he would have a really good grasp on the language after finishing that i think, so godspeed my man.

More like 200-300 or so.
I imagine that after the first 100 hours I'll have about 3000 kanji written (if not more) and the rest should go swimmingly.

That's my idea. A good variety of words and having fun while learning are a good combination.

You can say that again. Not to mention that it uses obsolete kanji in place of hiragana or versions that are no longer in use today.

Jesus Christ. It's not even available as an option when writing.

Try typing いな to get that kanji.

That sounds very inefficient. You shouldn't even be using a translator at all, just a dictionary and a grammar guide.

Bump. What's the difference between どうぞ　and くだざい?
こちらへどうぞ
or
こちらへくだいさい
which is more appropriate, or are they interchangeable?

I would say that どうぞ is when you are giving something to someone and くだざい is when you are asking for something.

I guess the subtle difference would be どうぞ is like a waiter showing a guest to their table, while ください would be telling someone to come toward you.

I honestly agree.
But these sentences are so difficult to understand at times that there is just no other way for me.

Maybe I'm trying to bite more than I can chew here right now. I had Valkyria Chronicles 3 planned as a substitute and I know for a fact that it is a LOT easier to understand, so maybe I'll go for that instead.

Thanks. Although I hope I'll never need it again.

You don't even have to understand everything you are reading at first.

To type yourself perhaps not, but you'll see it again most likely. Think of it like how in fantasy/medieval shit you'll have people saying "nay" instead of "no."

Also if you're still looking for a game with easy dialog, try Dragon Quest Builders. I just started it and it's so simple, the game is pretty fun as well.

I just "played" through the first little part of the intro to 零の軌跡. Like only up to Lloyd waking up on the train. I added like close to 40 new words to anki from that alone.
I'm starting to think I should leave this game until I'm better at this shit. Took me ages to do just that small part of the game, too.

You should at least have a decent kanji/vocab base before you start reading. Reading is mainly to help you learn grammar.

That game looks fun. Can you emulate it? How much Japanese would I need to know to play it?

I know all vocab up to N2 plus a bunch of extra shit. Like I can read simple manga; but naturally the game uses words and phrases beyond that and odd things like 黄泉路 or 煉獄.
What do you reckon? Keep at it slowly and build up enough of the game's general terms/words that it becomes easier? Or stick with simpler shit and come back at a later date?
I'm thinking the first option myself. But that's just because I want to play the game after finishing the 空の軌跡 ones.

It's apparently on the PS3 so you might be able to emulate it if your PC is strong enough. It does require a pretty good understanding of Japanese though.

Hm, I don't know those words either, so it probably uses a lot of obscure vocab. If it's just the vocab that you have trouble with, then just continue, but if it's also the grammar then stick to simpler shit.

Darn. Well I'll be taking a Japanese 1 unit next semester because (((muh breadth units))). I'm not sure how much I'll know by the end, but I'm hoping it can get me started.

I heard formal classes are really slow.

Don't be disappointed if you haven't gotten very far afterwards from what you can see. But keep at it.
I've been self-studying for 2.5 years now and I'm still terrible. I've got this weird problem where my pronunciation and shit is perfectly fine and I speak relatively well; but my listening is abysmal. So people hear me, instantly go to えぇー！日本語上手！, and then proceed to speak to me at full speed. So I get completely lost.

Practice listening with anime or radio or whatever.

Tonight I started watching LPs from this dude: youtube.com/user/norunine/featured they seem pretty decent so far. Lots of them seem to have subtitles, too.

I asked a native speaker I know, and got the following:

「だろうが」より、「だとしても」の方が少し丁寧な感じがするが、大きな違いはないとおもう。

This is post 300. It's a bump.

The truth is that the Nips compliment how good you are the moment they hear you speak Jap, especially if it is not good at all as a courtesy because you are a foreigner, but avoid doing that completely if you're actually fluent and speak properly.

new thread