How come this game has 3 times more depth in every aspect than any rpg that came out in the last 5 years...

Play Witcher 3.

Traps arent that bad and locked chest arent that hard to unlock, I think I wasnt able to open one door in the whole game

Not a problem, the knock spell exists for a reason. Spellcasters are broken like that, especially if they can rest anytime they want.

Tips for newcomers, you should have gone full bard. Bards are broken in NWN 2 thanks to the way bardic music now stacks with stuff it shouldn't stack with and because bardic music is infinite. Basic build is Blackguard 3/Dragon disciple 4/bard for a bard that can melee and still has some spellcasting power. Pick the Epic divine might feat for 2x cha to damage, bg gives you cha to saves, use cha for bardic spellcasting and bardic music gives you +5 to damage and accuracy. Use the spell greater heroism for even more accuracy and pick up curse song to debuff enemies. Bards also get the best feat in the game, song of requiem which does unavoidable aoe damage and heals your party at the same time and has 30 uses per day.

NWN2 was utter garbage

RTWP combat is just fine. It has all the tactics of turn based with none of the tedium.

No game related pics? What's this scary place.

In motb I made an invincible killing machine swashbuckler/duelist/weapon master with a rapier +INT to both damage and AC was insane

...

there are still good RPGs out there OP

In the OC, you get Neeshka to open up chests and deal with traps.

As for your character build, most builds rely on one or two stats. Bards are a CHA class while Druids are a WIS class. Which means they won't work very well together. Also, Bard songs get stronger and better with levels and the lvl 1 Bard song won't make much of a difference 2-3 hours in. The most important thing to keep in mind is that when a character has multiple classes, you can get an experience penalty if you 1) aren't human 2) don't have a class that is favored for your race 3) don't keep both your classes at equal levels. Prestige classes don't count for experience penalties. In other words, unless you're playing a race that has favored Bard or Druid, or are playing Human, you'll get hit by a pretty bad experience penalty.

For a DnD game beginner, you should try to make a character that focuses on either melee combat, arcane casting or divine casting. It'll generally be less complicated and it'll ease you into the combat system. These kind of games also usually have your main character participate in duels as part of the story, so if you're a thief-like or support character, you're gonna have a bad time.

With that being said, the NWN2 OC starts off pretty bad, but it does get better in the second half. The last few hours of the OC are actually fairly decent. The MotB expansion is god tier and acts as a continuation of the OC. SoZ expansion is a stand-alone with unique mechanics and it's absolutely terrible. Play it last, and if you don't enjoy it drop the fuck out of it because it doesn't get better.

NWN1 is better

It wasnt THAT bad.

I want to get rid of Neeshka and recruit a rogue that is less annoying. Shit woman you just joined as well what makes you think you have any grounds to complain about the druid girl joining.

This. Normalfags can't into D&D rules, they just wanna "level up" with out any thought into character building or thinking for a few minutes where you can best dump a point or points in, this is why a lot games and especially RPGs focus hard on the ways you can customize the looks of your character but not the actual skills or character building.
The PC's in those games might look all different but are in the end exactly the same.

Neeshka wants the D and sees competition.

It was. Every random battle on the overworld was just an AoE fest while the few dungeons were short, uninspired and laughably easy. SoZ is little more than a really poor imitation of IWD. Except the combat sucks.

But that druid girl was a creepy stalker/voyeur of a small kid that your character was before the game start. Neeshka was cute (especially her voice) and still wanted to help you win the unavoidable trial by ordeal even if you have played a pain-in-the-ass preachy paladin.

I like this game so much, yet don't care much for Dungeon Rats. Just goes to show that things like encounter design can make similar things feel entirely different.

I'm more worried about the dwarf wanting to become a monk, Neeshka is safe.. for now. Reading the monkhood trials he needs to pass is to abandon everything what makes him a fun character. I don't need a dorf that's in contact with his feelings and all that, he needs to drink beer and punch people who look at us the wrong way.
Neeshka does terrible damage though I don't understand how rogues work, am I not supposed to give her double daggers until I get a trait or something?

you dont dual wield at all until you get two-weapon fighting an ambidexterity
then you also get improved two-weapon fighting as soon as you can, probably at level 15 for a rogue

Because most RPGs aren't based on D&D and this game is basically a prototype for Dragon Age Origins.

Also the best weapons in the game come from either the plot-sword that you get late in the game or crafting.

free feats

...

Rogue damage comes from Sneak Attack, which needs a few requirements to work. For the most part, valid targets are "intelligent", living creatures. That means no undeads, no golems, no oozes, etc. But then there's a ton of stuff that gets immunity to sneak attacks and crit, most notably dragons. To trigger the actual sneak attack, the targets needs to not be engaged to the Rogue. This includes being under the effects of crowd control abilities that prevent actions. So if a Fighter is fighting a wolf and you send your Rogue to attack the wolf, the Rogue will get sneak attacks as long as the wolf is focused on the Fighter. You can also sneak attack with ranged weapons, provided you're close to your target. For the most part, enemies tend to focus the rogue as soon as it gets in melee range, making the whole sneak attack thing not really worth it for general purposes.

Thankfully, theres a level 1 spell that will solve all your problems. Grease.
It creates an oil pool that lasts pretty long and which makes your enemies vulnerable to sneak attacks.

I would have to control neeshka personally everytime she gets aggro to back out and into the fray again, that sounds like too much work when I already have stuff to do with my own guy. I'll leave sneak attack to the rng gods.

That says a lot about the genre because nwn2 is bad. Like nv, it's not great but it's so high above the standard it looks much better than it is by comparison

Combat is awful, even painful to play. Mostly because there's no challenge. The story is entertaining I guess if you can make it past chapter 1 but you cant change almost anything of it, no decisions. Genuine spoilers: You win the trial the luskan bitch calls for combat trial, you lose and sand does the same, etc. No repercussions other than receiving a gift or something. Only things that matter are influence choices on companions for the final boss
It has few skill/attribute checks on dialogues that arent charisma skills, and at the same time random skills turn out to be really useful at some specific parts like lore skill on the city archives or they put stealth enemies on one specific part and they dont use stealth offensively again in the entire game.

I dont know what to make of this game. Sometimes it tries to be good (and succeeds, mind you), most of the time it's awful. I can tell you that it gets better after chapter 1, but I'd look for some mods to rebalance the game and make the characters move faster out of combat. You'll thank me. Believe me rebalance wont ruin the vanilla experience, it is almost impossible to get stuck on a fight
Hell I'd say getting a mod to make the fights harder improves the game a great deal. You practically dont need skills, all the problems you can either solve with X skill or fighting are easily solved by fighting, it's not worth getting speech skills or any other skill, because the 'hard' enemies they put as an alternative to skill checks are dogshit, a ghost that attacks you if you open an ancient tomb for loot is just a fucking ghost that spooks you and dies in a hit, curses you at worst

wew nevermind you're gonna have lots of fun
wew

Little spoiler here, the dwarf is one of the best parts of the game you'll see how the trials turn out

I played NWN quite a bit and it's great but I think there are more than enough games using DnD. There are much better alternatives out there. I'd like to see a RPG that used Runequest/Mythras rules

It's the normalfag cycle.

1 - Niche game sells too well.
2 - Suits smell blood in the water.
3 - Management sells out.
4 - Suits tell team to make the property normalfag friendly based on focus group research.
5 - The focus group says things like "too many buttan" or "too many number."
6 - The game becomes shit.
7 - The normalfags leave.
8 - The property is destroyed and the team that made the property is laid off and scattered to the four winds after having their mind and spirit shattered.

Nigger, she is the best

If you think Neeshka is annoying good luck with the sorceress whore you meet later.

The sorceress is already stabled stabled in the pub never to see daylight again.
Neeshka is a growing process, she did well just a few moments ago, I told her she could look through the warehouse before we set off and she actually brought some good items. I did have to use some intimidation to get the ones she hid from me.
These type of games really bring out the bully I can't not select options like I think this deserves a reward after all I risked my life or options that show how much they are willing to give me in order to spare their lives.

Restart. You picked probably the two weakest classes in NWN, and made them a multiclass. Unless you can respec, which I'm pretty sure you can't in SoZ, or any of the others bar the custom modules, you're kinda fucked unless you miraculously get it to work. Who knows.. Could be a new meta somehow.
Also don't go into gameplay options and choose Hardcore D&D settings whatever you do, right now the game is on cruise control for your safety, which is probably the only reason why you've somehow been doing okay all this time whilst choosing 'Recommend' with each level up Trust me, I've been there, and Craft weapon/armor is only at all useful in SoZ anyway really seeing as how they revamped the entire system to make it more approachable.

It sounds like you're coming into these types of games for the first time, so let me try to give you some advice.
You've probably heard this phrase at least once before. It's because you essentially save yourself time and effort expended so that when you do die, or something bad does happen, you can load the last save game.
NWN 1 would probably have been the safer option for you to start with as it does seem to be a bit more new comer friendly. I would say that it's a lot easier to get lost in 2, simply because of the multitude of classes/etc that gets changed. If you really want to soak in D&D, check out Baldurs gate or Icewind dale. These games won't hold your hand for a second, but I would hope you would be able to learn from it, it's harsh but fairish after all if you know some of the exploits.. Like pulling one enemy at a time so you can focus on a single opponent, or even leaving the room in the hopes that one will follow you.
Party Composition
Generally speaking, any good party needs:
A damage/aggro sponge basically. High Constitution Fighter/Dwarven Defender has tank written all over it.
Think Half Orc Fighter/Barbarian with Greatsword spec. Weapon masters also tend to do ridiculous damage, but it's a prestige class so that's further down the line. I'm pretty sure it also needs at least 13 intelligence for the whirlwind attack prerequisite, but they might have changed that in 2.
Anyone who can pick locks and disable traps is virtually a requirement in almost every circumstance, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a rogue - although if you try to do this whilst not multiclassing as a rogue, you're probably gonna run into trouble, even as a swashbuckler or something similar **Rogues can be very flimsy though, so it's generally a good idea to make sure you treat them strategically. Try to multiclass them as a shadow dancer or at least up to swashbuckler 3 (for the intelligence bonus) if you wanna improve survivability.
Mages can turn a room full of monsters to a room full of corpses in a matter of seconds. They can also die extremely quickly if under direct fire, so it's best to keep them near the back with a ranged weapon if possible, so that if they run out of spells they can still deal damage
This would be your cleric, but anyone besides a paladin really I would imagine that can cast healing spells will do. Cleric's a good choice though because they get some nice spells and they're often a good third/second frontliner if they're given heavy armor and a sturdy shield.
And if you have a 6th choice which in SoZ you won't, so I would just pick Tank, Cleric, Rogue, Mage, in that order for party composition then you should probably think dedicated ranged.

Well, I hope that helps you OP. Good luck, and let me know how it all goes or if you need anything more specific.

Shit sorry lad, when you were talking about Dinosaur I assumed you meant the bounty hunter in SoZ. Well nevermind then, you meant you have a dinosaur companion… Fair enough on that front, I imagine you won't really regret that one either.

Your crowd control outside of entangle or double druidic shit is already gonna be a fucking travesty, Khelgar is gonna help you out with his cleave prowess but not having a spellcaster is gonna hurt you when you're fighting gangs of orcs later on. I'm quite curious to see your character sheet/item loadout tbh, see what's going on with your main.

Best girl. OC girls are boring and/or a complete shit the sorceress is such a fucking cunt, Sand is so much more tolerable and Safiya is too bald.

I wish Obsidian still knew how to write compelling characters.

Neither of you have ever played anything before 3e, if you even play tabletop at all, have you? D&D mechanics are nothing complex and certainly nothing to be proud of. D&D was much better when the casual filter was that it was played almost exclusively by wargamers. CRPG style character building in tabletop was a mistake. Enjoy your iveory tower design.

I'll explain the idea/research behind my build more. Basically it's a pet build where the dinosaur is going to carry and I will back him up from behind with the shortbow. The level 1 bard was just so I could use bows since druids don't give that but they do give zen archery which makes bows scale with wisdom instead of dex. I took a lot of traits like natural leader anything that buffs the dinosaur and the party's attack in general.
I've been playing with this option all this time it seemed more fun if the enemy can do equal damage and spells need to be aimed proper or allies will be hit.
I was already doing this I though these were just regular tactics. There's this option where you can select your whole party with mousebutton4 so I juggle them back and forward near the door a bit and when a wild one comes charging we turn on him 5v1 quik before the rest of the pack comes in. Neeshka and the Eleena die almost every fight they are like paper but the dinosaur and the dwarf they are they are near unkillable with all the buffs and barkskin on them + I'm also using the highest level spellminion I have which is another good damage source that receives my buffs.
Somehow this just works so far the only thing that's a bit of a pain are spellcasters that can't be reached due to tons of melee blocking the way.

I suppose you didn't know that the game is on an easier difficulty setting than standard D&D by default, or that the campaign is just a single module out of the thousands that are available on a site like the vault? Also, if I thought that a game was that shit, I wouldn't waste my time sinking the 30 + hours into it required to complete it, or even play it for a few hours, if only to give it a few second chances.

Pics related
Atton is also fairly well written in my opinion.. In fact, the whole fucking game makes Kotor 1 looks like a children's story book.Shame about the rushed, shitty ending cinematic though.

Forgive me, with the OP I made the assumption that you didn't really know what you were doing, but you have actually put some thought into this and have had a bit of a look around which almost feels out of place around here at times.. Sorry for getting the wrong idea there.
Well I meant more specifically when you enter an instance and leave it, sometimes a few monsters will follow you through which is virtually invaluable in baldur's gate.
If you were playing the older games you'd be crying rivers right now.. I think even NWN 1 had dead character's staying dead/teleporting out, or at least requiring a rod of resurrection to recover. I'd swap out elanee for someone else if you have them, she's a flaky irritating bitch and she doesn't make the cut IMO. Neeshka is kinda mandatory for the most part seeing as I'm pretty sure she'll be the only rogue you're going to be getting in the OC, but give her a chain shirt if you can, and take it off her again when you want her to sneak. Also try giving her a bow and toughness/dodge if she doesn't already. I seem to remember her being shite in combat as well. Elanee goes without saying. As much as you might hate her, I would have brought Qara along instead of elanee.

Didn't she get LICHED?

That is the only thing I remember of her and the bald chick I only remember she sucked your dick before the whole happening or something.

It's stupidly OP if you use Divine Shield and Divine Might with it. Paladin/Bard/Blackguard/RDD is fucking disgusting. Can do Bard/Cleric/RDD too.

She tastes like chicken.

Still mad that you couldn't bring down the wall.

...

Bard on it's own is shit though, and as you've just mentioned it's only great as a stepping stone for RDD, which is absolutely broken anyway, or multiclassing, which can make or break any character build.

I was trying to find a way to go both Pale Master and RDD a while back, but I think it's only possible in 2 because 1 only let's you do 3 multiclasses.

I doubt you can tell much from this picture but I have absolutely no idea what stats I'm even looking for. I thought since I have zen archery I'll stack items that give me wisdom but honestly I had like +4 wisdom from gear and didn't notice any difference in damage so I gave them to Eleena and started wearing some meme items that give social skills like diplomacy and straight up HP instead.
Eleena is even less useful when I'm a druid myself I don't need her to do the stuff I can do myself but then again >qara. At this point it doesn't even matter who the next character is he will get a spot if it means I can permapub these 2.
going to bed it's 5am

Only if you're a fuckup or edgelord and don't kill the fucking evil floating skull with gems for eyes.

No I didn't care about that. I just got rid of my curse and escaped with my red wizard magical girl.

Kinda sad because you take her back to your home town to marry her so you are NTRing Neeshka.

I never get why would you bother with that? Isnt the game to short to enjoy those type of classes?

Maybe I let him live on purpose so the dove gets what she deserves.

Tabletop newfags are the only ones who enjoy the "complicated" bullshit of 3E~Pathfinder. The actual good editions - the grognard era - and the OSR which has spawned from it, are infinitely better than the bullshit you see today.

The difference is that while the games require less to learn, they require a good DM to run, who can improvise shit on the fly or at least keep track of a lot of house rules. It's a lot easier to run a battle with a monster, for example. where you have a massive stat block with pre-written tactics and numbers to encountered, versus a game where a monster stat block is literally numbers for Hit Dice, #of Attacks, Damage, #Encountered, Movement, Treasure Type, the chance you find it in its lair, and then a short paragraph of description.

This thread makes me want to go back and play through sou and hotu again.

You get to be a dragon. Hello.

Kelemvor boot lickers get out REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_10/_red_dragon_disciple_10/_pale_master_20
Guess I wasn't looking hard enough. I'm pretty sure with the multiclassing in 2 though, you might get a pretty good deal as a fighter hybrid.

I would say you fucked up giving your character only 10 dex considering you can only wear light armor so you need that dex bonus and get a fucking chain shirt will you? 16 AC at level 8 is terrible., and 14unbuffed? Int. If you wanna pass social checks, it may be prudent to level bard again and then you'll probably be set for a while, but you may be okay just laying off bard forever and trying to level social skills if you do care about it.
Unless you plan on upgrading that to a 12, you won't see any positive changes, IIRC the modifier next to your stat determines how it affects your skills/throws, and it needs to be an even number to change.
Overall though you've gone fairly practical about it which I can appreciate. Also, as I said about modifiers, that 19 wisdom needs to be a 20, then you'll get a +5 on your wisdom modifiers.

It depends what module you're in, etc, but it can be very cool.

Doesnt the wizard have a dragon transformation? Also, are there any community made modules were you can fight high level enemies for NWN 1&2?

That build you linked is garbage no spells and no AB just some def and low HP.

Your normal gish of 19 fighter/21 wizard would mop the floor with that just maximised IGMS.

Shifter does. And yes there is a site for them "swordfighter" is one of the most suggested modules.

Thanks, user, I will give it a try.

If you've played any games like Knight's of the Republic or an MMO then you've got Neverwinter Night's gameplay down pat in appearance.

It would have to be a chain shirt + 1 though to be worthwhile vs your leather armor +… I had a thought that since you get no Dex bonuses, it may be prudent to spec into heavier armor, but even though I don't play druids, it will probably affect your ability to spellcast. Also AC bonuses don't stack at 100% efficiency after roughly over 2 enchanted items or so, so remember to keep that in mind as well. Pretty sure armor and shield doesn't factor into that, but if you have enchanted armor, shield + AC necklace say, you may have a problem there.

Calm down, I used it as an example since I saw pale master and RDD together, I didn't actually examine it in detail.
Unless you got some mind spells but by level 40 the warrior probably has a multitude of immunity to x items or maybe something like time stop, robeslad is fucked.

Hey anyone still go on MDF's emporium btw? I lost the port number when I had to reformat my computer and I haven't been on it since.

Yes I am even with immunities. Timestop + Maximised IGMS easy fight.

(nwn.wikispaces.com/building_guides) There are some good builds here even the boring pale drake build you suggested is done pretty well here.

Fuck. That's a good point. I don't think there is anyway to counter magic damage either so you'd have that. Maximise spells get stupid after a while since they effectively have no real upper limit
Thanks for the link user, finding a good build is usually a bit more convoluted since they're more disorganised/on a designated forum thread. It's good to see them in one place like that for a change.

You posted the wrong pic.

they got better at selling games

...

What are you talking about Neverwinter Nights was a bug hit for Bioware, you fucking young fucks thinking they know everything when they can't even do cursory research. Did you know that there was a time people thought Neverwinter Nights was just the deepest of lore instead of being a bland cliche left and right? Used to be a very prolific modding seen too because it was so easy.

There was no such time.

There was, and you know it, there is no need to be ashamed.

No, there wasn't.

That is for fucking pokemon, and even their it's bad. Turn base combat, is bad end of fucking story. It's never been fucking good ever. Because it's dry and stale as dog shit.

I played though both earthbound and fallout 2. And I can easily say it was the worst experience of my life.

(Earthbound) Just grind for hour, and beat the game, because it's that brainless.

(Fallout 2) You never really need it,as the ending fight is all that really matters, unless you do the story, which pretty much, all you do, is max out the luck stat, and boom you win the game. Quality fucking gameplay .

And no both games have a boring shit story, because their's no actual characters in the fucking game to make a story around.

Wrong.
I like how none of the games you listed has good tb combat.

BASED

TURN BASED

WITH A "D"

GET IT RIGHT.

Here you go 3220f9, dont spend it all in one place.

What's the point of spoilering if filename gives it away.

Heh.

So is that actually goke or one of the 10 characters that all look exactly like him?

Nigger I've beaten the game on the unfair difficulty three times. Why did I beat a bad game three times? Because playing something else is a worse waste of time. nwn 1 is better though

One of the evil donut steels yes

The heavy armor is coming whenever the game let's me pick a prestige class. The one I'm aiming for is just 1 level of warpriest for the automatic aura that gives +1 to hit rolls and -1 saving throws (ST I just understand this as them having less chance to dodge my shit for now) for the enemy, it also comes with free heavy armor proficiency which I will make use of to boost my AC.
The only thing that worries me is the BIG penalties on arcane spellcasting that heavy armor comes with. Do these failure rates apply on things like summons and buffs though it's not like I actually attack the enemies with my spells.
On the matter of social skills yes I use them a lot, literally after every sidequest I try to extort bigger rewards with them. Although I only focus on 3 of them diplomacy/intimidate/bluff all 3 of those scale off charisma according to the tooltip so bringing charisma to 12 might be needed if the upgrades come in even numbers like you said.

Don't forget that the focus groups are made up of hand-selected people that just so happen to say exactly what they want them so say in the first place by mere coincidence.

Cool game.

Too bad Dungeons&Dragons has gone to shit.

Acrane spellcasting penalties are insurmountable for heavy armour, at best you can eliminate it for medium armour with a feat but it's not worth it. If you want to increase your AC, use magic items like barkskin amulets and cloaks of protection.
Spellcasting penalties don't affect divine magic though so if you'e a cleric or a druid you'll be fine.

I'm a druid so I'll be fine then if it's counted as divine magic.
I've been following the advice in this thread for gearing and Khelgar is a monster now with 31AC. It doesn't mater if they kill all of us if they can't kill Khelgar he will 1v10 them with his cleaves.
Tactical retreat for now because orcs literally cannot be killed unless I use fire or acid and I have neither of them.

Not only that, but even if we're seeking out complex mechanics, DnD has always been on the more beginner friendly end of the scale. I've started running an ADnD 2e campaign and character creation takes no time whatsoever. Even THAC0's difficulty is just a meme. It's not like 3.5 is all that deep either, since most of the options are obviously shit if you have the slightest idea as to what to look for, so it's really only "complex" if you're entirely new (and still outdone by both past and present RPGs in that regard as well). The thing about tabletops though is that nobody who isn't a turbo-autist wants 3 million rules and options to memorize/refrrence

Only amongst retards. Nwn was always shit, and only salvaged by it's online component and community content

Every time

I meant trolls.

Lack of difficultly isn't the issue, it's just turn base combat is boring, it's why I hate rpgs and jrpgs.

There's a fire mace you should have picked up from the swamp cave. Nows a good time to pick it up.

Why are you here? Just to suffer?

that build was close to mine. RDD/PM. so many sick racial bonuses. if i remember correctly when i reached some higher level of Palemaster one of my arms turned into a skelenington arm. and if i touched stuff with that arm it had to roll a fortitude save or die instantly.

i know i said racial bonuses and that sort of doesn't make sense… but with Red Dragon Disciples and Palemasters at some level you inherit red dragon race traits, and undead race traits. regardless of your starting race.

...

A save or die roll of DC 16 once per day isn't that amazing. Good for flavour but a very mediocre ability.

Someone should make a game with this story-line and theme.

The final boss is EA.

[Spoiler]In the end, you lose, but how you play determines whether you wind up on the street sucking dicks or making money angels in your mansion. You become the bad guy if you do well.[/Spoiler]

Yeah I think the flame breath and scales from RDD where the main ones I wanted. I mean… who would want to fuck with a spellcasting fire breathing half-dragon dude with a skelington arm?

Except the actual roleplaying

The flame breath is equal to one level 3 fireball spell. The problem is that NWN doesn't properly scale abilities like in actual D&D.
At least you have the attribute boosts from RDD.

Spellcasters are just broken in every DnD game. Once you hit like level 3 or 5 depending on the edition casters in general outshine everything but the most powergaming of strats. Even then powergamed mages still win

Anyone else getting a distinct Manson vibe from Lenin there?

Is there any way to carry more gear other than just being a strong dude?

Play Kingpin: Life of Crime sometimes.

yiff in hell

Neeshka had no romance route in the base game and the voice acting for her in the mod adding romancing her was really, really awful. Save yourself the pain. Also it's not sure that she managed to escape alive from the aftermath of last battle in the base game.

Was there a mod that would give her a tail, btw?

>

oh, and if you can find it on NWVault, the NWN2 fan mod that remade Pool of Radiance is pretty good as a lvl1 start campaign, too. But generally with the series you should start with whatever official campaign came out last, and if you're jonesing for more content, find good fan mods. Only then do you go back to the early shit.

Mount and blade is still the only video game rpg that I actually like tbh.

I actually think this is fun maybe I have shit taste. I even found a pack of wolves to kill orcs with me.
What about just Neverwinter lore in general about the tribes, cities and old wars wouldn't that assist in enjoying MOTB more?

No since MoTB takes place in a different place entirely.

I fucked up I think. How do non strenght based characters wear heavy armor? I literally can't even wear that +2 chainmail I have on which without the encumbrance putting me in walkmode.
I have a cap of 100 encumbrance and that warpriest armor I want to buy is 50 pounds by itself, I'm confused. Should I have taken more than 10str in the character creator?

NWN2 Vanilla isn't that bad. The gameplay is fine (for a RTwP game), it's just the story is underwhelming and sometimes stupid compared to MotB.

If you have high dex you don't want heavy armor as it prevents you from getting all your dex as AC (hence maximum dexterity bonus). If you don't have strength or dex (why?) tough shit.

If you don't have strength or dex it's probably because you are a caster and shouldn't need armor at all.

Nah. If you're a caster you should have dex (wiz, sorc, especially Warlock, Bard) for the AC and ranged to hit or strength (Cleric, Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman, Eldritch Knight).

8/10/10/14/14/18 is a good point buy setup for most classes. Throw the 14s into dex and con and make the 18 their primary casting stats.

I have neither I only have wisdom and bows scaling off wisdom through zen archery so I wanted to rely on the heavy armor their base AC to boost my defense. In time this will sort itself out, I noticed you get encumbrance from simply leveling. Give or take 10 levels and I'll wear the full plate.

If you're a cleric you have access to long lasting armor spells. Stacking that much wisdom with no STR or DEX is kinda silly on your presumably first character.

you gay fags best be joking

You screwed up

And what has depth to you, faglord?

nigger what in the flying fuck has any depth in rpg games? they are all lowest denominator shit, you dont needs skills or brains to play this trash.

Neck yourself e.e.cummings jr.

You're a druid aren't you? You'll spend most of your time shifted which means only armour enhancement actually affects your AC and not your actual base armour. In other words, padded armour +5 and plate armour +5 will both affect you the same way while shifted into animal form.

great arguments rpgfag

My point is that you're complaining about being bored and mindlessly grinding when 2/3 of your examples are literally games for children.
If I were to expand your statements re:turn based games to other types of games, it would look something like this

If you want more complexity/depth you need to look for it. Suggestions were already provided by another user. There's more if you ask. Judging the entirety of a mechanic's depth/complexity based on games that are intentionally not complex/deep is retarded

Just name 3 games Anita :^)

There are so many!

SOON

The weird thing is RPG developers have all the examples to make a great D&D RPG with NWN, NWN2 and ToEE, but instead of combining the best aspects of all of them, they seem to try to churn out shit.

It's mind boggling.

...

Yeah that was the way I was thinking. Sure the old team might be gone but has the current team not played the cult classics of the company they work for? So asuming they did, a normal functioning human should be able to notice that what he is producing is inferior to a 10y old games I think (or hope).
I thought companies would be a bit more professional and had an actual understanding about what factors exactly made a particular game fun or sell and build further upon that.

did you nigs actually manage to do this? I'm not mozart how can I copy him after 1 listen

That's because everyone involved with D&D and game development at this poing is an ideologue and not at all interested in making a what we'd consider to be a good game.

Underwhelming is an understatement; it's boredom to the point of discomfort.

are you going to post your entire campaign

At least in NWN1 the Wizard can both transform into a Red Dragon and summon one; though Red Dragons are useless by the level you get them as a wizard as I found to my chagrin, looks cool though. Can't remember shit about NWN2 as all the best modules are for 1.

no,only the parts I thought were interesting, I'll tone it down

Run the bundled scenario editor and find the right scene. Read the accompanying dialogue tree and write down the right order somewhere at hand.

Doesn't a sneak attack work automatically on prone (i.e. knocked down) or entangled characters?

Monk Khelgar would have Improved Knockdown and as a druid you have the Entangle spell from the start.

I prefer the first one but I definitely see it as a high point in PC gaming. My views of the second one are kind of tainted by my shit PC at the time but I really loved the map editor in it.

What is wrong with that?

Shameful, user.

Grease also works, it attempts a knockdown once a turn for almost the entire battle, it affects a whole area and can hit multiple enemies at once. And even if you have friendly fire on, rogues have great reflex saves anyway which makes friendly rogues immune to friendly fire.

I didn't know I have a reason to spam entangle now

Virtually all spells have a hard cap. In the case of IGMS it's 20 missiles, 10 per target, 12 damage each, or 120 damage per target per cast assuming no spell resist or immunity. The wizard could be level infinity, but that would never increase (note empowered instead of maximized can achieve up to 180 damage, but will average only 90)

Scaling for spellcasters is wonky. It starts pathetically low, becomes incredibly a high (non-epic) levels, and then stalls out completely. Martial scaling never really stalls out, so at some point they come back around to being the better choice, at least for tasks their limited toolkits allow, such as killing things.

Also, spell resist works vs IGMS, and while it would depend on the module, there could always be such effects as "immunity to spells level x and lower". Those existed in the NWN1 official module Infinite Dungeons, though I have no idea if they are found in anything related to NWN2.

Mask of the Betrayer is better after beating the main game. It gets you more invested in your character.

It's quite hard to decide spells for the casters. I'm hesistant on taking aoe ones because the dumb AI might shoot our team. Magic missiles is godtier good damage and no friendly fire, is a metamagic build around that single spell any good?

In general MM is hot garbage. Its a meme spell. There are far better options for damage later.

Even so, buffs will increase your party's DPS far more than direct spell damage will

Debuff spells, especially Aoe ones if you can make you and your team immune to them. Bigby's spells are generally good too, interposing hand being able to debuff enemies attack by 10 and grasping hand being able to disable an enemy for the entire fight. Fire arrows and Avasculate are the best damage spells, fire arrows scale infinitely unlike other spells and Avasculate unavoidably halves your enemies health with only spell resistance stopping the damage.
Grease is the best level one spell and is still useful at level 30. Cloud of bewilderment is another low level spell which makes enemies vulnerable to sneak attacks, blinding and stunning anyone in the cloud.
Don't think of magic users as DPS, only plebs do. Think of them more like a force of nature, changing the terrain to make life hell for their enemies.

This is why Bard is the best class in NWN 2, it is melee capable and has the best buffs and most of the good debuffs in the game combined with the best feat in the game.
The Song of requiem feat does twice your perform skill in unavoidable aoe sonic damage once per turn for five turns. Only thing that can stop it is sonic resistance which is the rarest resistance type in D&D. Fully optimized with more feats, it lasts twice as long and aoe heals once per turn for your perform skill. At level 21 when you first pick up the feat, your perform skill is 25 + cha mod(usually 5) + magic item bonuses, which means you can do a minimum of 60 aoe damage per turn for 10 turns,and heal for 30 for that same time. That's a total of 600 damage and 300 healing. And the best part is that you get your bard level number of uses of the feat. At level 21 bard, that's 21 times.
Fully optimised, you get around 33 + 10(cha mod) + 8(items) + 13(feats) perform skill, giving you 30 uses of 1280 damage + 640 healing in an area of effect in a single use of the feat for which you have 30 uses of.
This isn't even getting into the spellcasting or the buffing capabilities of a bard.

Do you even need a party at that point? Or does the game offer a little more challenge than that.

The party has some uses, rogues offer a way to disable traps and unlock chests, a two handed frenzied berzerker is a good target for bard buffs, clerics work as a good secondary healer, wizards have some good spells you can't access (the bigby spells).
But no, once you hit bard level 21, all challenge disappears from the game.
Why are you doing so little damage though, what is your level?

Everything is turn-based combat. Even FPS's, sports-games. It's all a matter of time between turns.

You can't escape it.

13 now but I'm a druid with a dinosaur companion if you calculate him in i'd say it's around 25-50dps per turn depending on the crit. I have the regular buffs barkskin/pet stuff but with the leftover slots I can't find any comfortable spells. I'm trying to get those belts that give freedom of movement on khelgar/neeshka/shandra so I can atleast use entangle without fucking them all over.
Are there any known druid spells that are a must use?

Not really, divine spells are better for buffing and healing than attacking. You using barkskin means you've mostly made use of the druids spell list, try using some animal companion only buffs. Only problem here seems to be your class choice. In NWN 2, animal companions can't stack feats like followers can so they aren't going to be as effective at fighting than a regular fighter can. Ranged weapons are a bad idea due to poor damage scaling and because of how easily enemies can walk into melee range. Ranged attacks are best used as a way to keep your fragile spellcasters away from the melee. As a druid you should have combined Wildshape with natural spell to make a semi decent healer who could also melee.

Also, druids are worse in NWN2 than in 1 because the Shifter prestige class didn't make the cut.

They're okay, but magic items are just too plentiful and druids can't use most of them. Druids are most effective on low magic multiplayer servers where they are unaffected by the lack of items.
If you added Kaedrin's prc pack, you would have access to 2 prestige classes based on buffing the wildshape ability, both of which massively boost a druids melee abilities.

Alright I'll take rejuvenation cocoon and regeneration and put myself in the assist mindset. I'll play something hotter when MOTB comes around.

Druids do have some pretty good high level spells, the sun spells can blind opponents and destroy undead, Storm of vengence lasts forever and even stuns your opponent occasionally, the elemental swarm spell summons an elemental that ressurects itself everytime it's killed. The drown spell is also one which would interest you.
Right now though, you should concentrate on stoneskin and freedom of movement and other such spells.

Dexterity gives +attack (your to-hit chances) with ranged weapons. This is what your wisdom is substituting for.

Strength gives +attack and +damage (1.5x for two-handed) with melee weapons and +damage with thrown weapons. Not sure if thrown weapons are implemented in NWN2 though.

They are and they get the strength bonuses. Maybe a Stormlord build with throwing weapons is a good idea.

Bags of holding eventually.

Does Zen Archery work with thrown weapons? If so it sounds like a decent concept.

So bows have no damage scaling from stats at all? You can only rely on your high hit chance, rapid shot and good arrows/bow if you wanted to roleplay an archer?
I'm starting to see why strength based characters are so strong.

They can gain damage from strength but only if the item had the mighty enchantment. This still doesn't solve the original problem of ranged attacks being multi-attribute dependant.
You want a fun melee build to try? Strength ranger/scout with swift tracker feat. Dual wielding + sneak attacks + high strength = lots of damage

Sneak attack is overrated and you're full of shit. First you can SA with ranged all the same, better even in some situations. Second you're not mentioning the arrows.

It does.

Oh yeah, and mighty is an item property. Not an enchantment.

Ranged does tend to be a bit weak in D&D games. In tabletop w/ real turnbased rules there's a lot more you can do to keep enemies away from you, everyone good carries ranged weapons.

If you want a good basic character, be a pure cleric (or cleric w/ cleric prestige classes). Clerics do literally everything well except cast arcane spells.

MAD isn't much of a problem if all you need are STR/CON/WIS and can still dump DEX.

If you're going pure STR melee you're better off with a two-handed weapon since it doubles your power attack. At least until you start getting into epic level enchantments at which point pure # of attacks wins out.

You've opened my eyes. I think I have ruined both neeshka and shandra their builds as well.
What is the point of weapon finesse when I could've just take 15 dex for the first level of two handed specialization and dump everything else into strength and proceed to dualwield rapiers like a badass.

As compared to what, dual wield? And you're forgetting scrolls and domains.

You want the short or the long why?

Actually, the strength ranger relies on the ranger getting free dual wielding feats. Otherwise it would be MAD which would weaken it. Rogues are fine as dex dependent as they gain damage through sneak attacks. Shandra is an int based fighter so she wasn't really fully optimised anyway.

the long one I need to understand this or else I'll fuck up more characters.

To my defense Shandra joined with 16 dex didn't know what was going on.

Basically all of the NPCs are going to come at you with completely shit unoptimized builds. It's just something to deal with. The game isn't particularly hard or demanding.

As for the other reasons that build idea is horrible
Its okay to fuck up your first few D&D characters, it's a complex system. Tell us a character idea and I'll help you build it in this thing to get you used to the system.
nwn2db.com

why would you dual wield rapiers if you can dual wield kukris?
sure you lose 1 average damage per hit but then you'd also not get that medium offhand penalty(-2)

You don't dual-wield rapiers since they're medium weapons. So, a -2/-2 if you got two equipped. And that shit hurts unless you're a weapon master or such. It's also more cost effective to conserve rogue tier scarce feats and get daggers or kurkis as opposed to both them and rapier specialization/focus/whatever
Weapon Finesse is a cheap way to keep your base attack competitive with a character that doesn't get too much BAB per level but comes with high DEX. It's also very cute when you add swashbuckler levels or really, really depend on those criticals/sneak attacks. Which you shouldn't over depend on considering all the critical/sneak attack immune shit out there.

Two handed weapons are for those who live by the dps or by the oh shit criticals. Rogues are better off with unload with daggers or bows, I mean stack SA's and hope you got specialized ammo and shit to fall back on if and when they start shrugging them off. And high DEX is nothing to laugh at especially if you got some use magic device or innate spells to supplicate them. STR is also one of the easiest spells to buff or raise with equipment.

Also, only a dipshit would badmouth offensive divine magic in D&D crpgs. Don't fall for that meme.

Is there anything good that uses a spear?

the tooltip said that the offhand should be light so I thought the penalty would come only from the offhand rapier. So I wouldn't mind going -2 to look good but -4 that's stretching it.

that red dragon polymorph is only good as a last resort
they cant even breathe fire, unlock the druid/shifter polymorph
speaking of which, one of the reasons I dont like NWN2 is because of that level 30 cap; theres less room for favored enemies as a ranger and for ranger levels, and how do you even get dragon shape without gimping yourself in the process?
also theres that thing about still getting attacks per round after level 20
perhaps the highest damage per round build in NWN2 is a grey orc 29 ranger/1 monk in that order with bane of enemies and perhaps great strength II

first off you'd have 29 base attack, so thats 6 attacks per round with your mainhand kama
then you switch to the monk attack progression at level 30(and if you dont you take the monk lvl at 1), so that becomes 9 attacks per round with your mainhand kama
then you add flurry of blows for another mainhand attack per round, so thats 10, then haste makes 11
then you add perfect two-weapon fighting, which gives you a whopping
22 ATTACKS PER ROUND
AND your AB isn't complete garbage either; its at least 33+enhancement bonus, plus an extra 2 vs favored enemies

BUT THATS NOT ALL
you'd have 6 or 7 favored enemies, plus 2 if you forego great strength 2, and you'd also deal an extra 2d6+6 damage to your favored enemies per hit

one might think rapiers don't get the medium offhand penalty since you can finesse them but you do get that penalty

unlike*

Stormlord build of some kind. Automatically infuses spear with lightning powers. You have a choice here, defensive or offensive. More spells or more melee.
I'm going to assume you have the whole game all ex packs included.

It's -2/-2. And it's not applied when they're small, raps are medium sized.

In NWN2? Yes.

offensive divine magic can mean spamming implosion(which is superior to wail of the banshee), laying down CREEPING DOOMS, and spamming storm of vengeance
although those 3 spells are much better when friendly fire isn't an issue, and if they are, you can spam fire storms(or bombardment if you really want), both of which wont friendly fire, and druids can empower fire storm
druids can also spam spike growth and metamagic which will stay there for 1 hour per caster level, more if extended
clerics and druids can also still get ice storm

It really is, I have a belt in my spatial bag that gives +4str. All this time I wasn't even using mass bull strength because I was under the illusion only Khelgar would benefit from it. Never go full retard all the tools were there but I was too dumb.

I don't have that custom kaedrins mod though but I do have all the expacs.

Offensive or defensive?
More spells or more melee?

favored soul(spear)/stormlord/weapon master

offensive melee

Also human seems to be the safespace building character can I get away from that with the spear build, it's ok if you can't but it'd be nice.

Tried the classic bitch build of everything longsword related + the biggest board you can find? From there you usually go rogue builds, then two handed powerhouses, then arcane casters. You'd usually only then hate your life enough to experiment and gish with cleric levels on your PC.

For example I heartily recommend a scythe or scimitar fury cleric with warlock levels.

Paladin/stormlord Aasamir
18 Str 12 con 12 wis 18 cha
Pick up the divine might feat to get charisma as divine damage. You also get power attack along the way.
Get luck of heroes for your first feat.
If you want more buffing power, go favoured soul instead of paladin, problem is that favoured souls relies on two attributes for spellcasting which means you're better off as a buffer healer as a Favoured soul. Good news is the free spear related feats you can get from FS levels. Other bad news is no divine might feats unless you pick up levels in blackguard or something with turn undead.

No, FS needs only CHA.

Except my own druid dinosaur build that's full potato I haven't tried anything. I learned a lot of the mechanics here and am rather interested in that lightning spear build that was mentioned. I want to try taking it into MOTB with maybe a difficulty mod but if the user doesn't come through I'll have a look at scythe fury cleric.

No, FS need both wis and cha. This is why FS aren't completely superior to Clerics.

No, you're still full of shit. FS only use WIS for spell DC, and only at it's whooping ability modifier. DC works d20 roll + Spell Level (based of your character level) + INT/WIS Modifier + Feats up to max legal DC.

FS aren't superior to clerics because they lack their spell roster, their domains and their sacrifice turn for shit feats.

Also Spontaneous casting which can literally save your ass.

I'm already stuck at the stats it's not possible to do that there's not enough points.

nwn2db.com/build/?272048

DnD isn't complex or good, it's just bloated and poorly balanced. If you want something good that has depth and real complexity try out GURPS. Works with any genre, you just pick the appropriate books.

If you're set on a meme build warlock with rogue levels is something else.

I think I understand it somewhat but we only need up to level 25 paladin for epic divine might. Would I also be free to go into fighter for those last 5 levels to pick up a focus feat for spear? Is there anything to gain that way or would staying paladin still be better?

Modify it however you want. I didn't even really optimise the build. Also you have almost no skill points so this character is only going to be good at fighting and a bit of healing.
If you sacrifice paladin levels though, keep in mind you are lowering the power of your smite ability.

If you aren't going to use the smite ability much, feel free to swap out as many paladin levels as you need. You probably need the bonus feats from fighter.
Don't swap out blind fight though, it's very important for MOTB.

Because stormlord levels are mixed in I won't reach enough paladin levels to actually get more than 1 use a day, atleast this is what I gather from reading the tooltip. The straight up 2 more spear feats from fighter or something else sound a lot more attractive. Skillpoint are indeed very low but it will work out I think if I only focus on diplomacy, tumble and taunt. Good stuff, looking forward to play this.

Have you fought the berserker after the trial yet? That's the time your character is tested for combat prowess.

You know, he's been feeding you bullshit for awhile now.

I blew through the trial with all my smug diplomacy levels making torio look like an ape. They were saying that Lorne is a dirty fighting Luskan who would use poison. At that point I already had venom immunity feeling even more smug at this at this whole scenario. I had a whole plan to BM this trial by combat overseen by the gods where I would summon my dinosaur and put myself in the rejuvenation cocoon so I can't be touched. Lorne would then have to fight an actual dinosaur while everyone watches. Alas this didn't happen, Khelgar was so passionate about fighting for me I let him fight for me. He carries every fight while we are always fucking around with bows so he earned it in a way.
That was actually the first time I manually used Khelgar. What seemed like a great, well I don't want to call it a trick, tactic is using the knockdown and then immediately switching into the improved power stance. I reasoned that if they are knocked down I will hit them 100% accuracy. There was also this point where he went berserk but the story had already mentioned more than once that berserkers will suffer stat deficits after it runs out, meaning you just kite them until it's over.
All in all the Luskans didn't bamboozle me for 1 second.

What would you recommend as a spear build then? Or do you agree with his build in general but with changes

neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/hakpak/original-hakpak/kaedrins-prc-pack-v1421

IF you do not have this Get it.No one posted it so I figured i would to. Open wide Here comes the airplane.

up up down down left right left right select start.
Also Remember console commands to unfuck up companions.

nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Console_command
nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Givefeat

Accepting how spear users get the shaft and how it's a mediocre weapon at best? Monkey Grip based weapon master or druid cleric is also interesting but shallow/low level investement druid is much better than shallow cleric in most cases, plus you get a pet stormlord. One gets to dual wield two spears at increased damage, capped attack bonus and improved critical and the other is a motherfucker to take down between using a spear + shield and defensive/summoning spells.

Paladin alone is shit unless you go prestige for broken CHA based bonuses or you pull some meme shit with class specific equipment and smite. Making a stormlord paladin is garbage since you can't use stormlord abilities in tandem with smite, your casting is shit and your BAB is almost rogue tier. You do end up with slightly better saving throws, lay on hand that's hot garbage and smite that's OK and nothing class defining as what your built-to-smite paladins get.

Playing it felt like swimming though thick molasses. And the pathfinding sucked.

I've played the MOTB opener with a few different builds to get a feel for them. Anything melee focused with cleric was ridiculously strong but the big downside is that HUGE prebuff sequence which involved around 7-8spells. Some of them with short durations so you can't loiter around too much in non rest areas.
On the other side of the spectrum you have dwarven defender which is the opposite of cleric with tons of damage reduction but 0buffs and 0damage, the only skill you get all game is knockdown. This seemed like the type of build that would be very nice for one of the story characters.
The balance i'm looking for should be inbetween there, I'm gonna try playing the first MOTB opener (up to the double wizard not just the cave) with 2 more builds a HIPS dex based eldritch blaster that has completely given up on DC and only uses touch based spells. The last build is this nwn2db.com/build/?108831 I love rapiers and this build seems dps focused like the cleric one without all the prebuff hassle.

After that I will choose one of the saves and continue MOTB. I actually died to those double wizards quite a few times. Often their first cast is bigby hands if it lands then it's over the paralyze stays until I die. This is good though atleast the game is forcing me to pause and plan some stuff as opposed to the OC which I played like an RTS.

...

Just go Cleric/Dwarven Defender and stack CON. Get epic damage reduction + epic resilience and use Regenerate to make yourself invincible. You don't need your buffs as much to fight so it greatly reduces your buffing time, but if you do buff up for the harder stuff it'll make up for your wet noodle dmg from being Dwarven Defender.

Offtopic as hell but anyone know of a good soundtrack that pairs with any of the geneforges?

I figured someone here might have a answer

Since were talking about rpg's in this thread, should I get grim dawn like I love action rpgs and I like what it does with the class system so i'm unsure.

Grim Dawn's reception on here wasn't so bad was it? I remember seeing quite frequent threads about it with people discussing their builds. Long ago I played an early build of the game that only covered act1 but I still completed that and had fun I think.

Just my 2 cents. What else is there on the market for arpgs nowadays, poe?

I loved this shit but keep hearing how it is a bad rpg according tot he classics. Hell! Nowadays i wish we would have this "bad" games…

You may be overthinking it by this point. MOTB is more of a story experience than a munchkin wet dream. I mean, you're constantly given the precise tools you need to tackle a challenge or simply a bunch of fairly strong abilities you get no matter your "build". Tried SoZ yet?

Always loved the Siege of Avalon one.

Yeah, poe is fun, whats sad action top down rpgs are really good, it's hard to fuck up. except for blizzard, their really good at that. ALL I FUCKING WANT IS MORE OF THIS TYPE OF GAME. Like fucking hell man it's better than every fucking indie shooter and rouge like. Can we just have those die please, for the love of god.

The shitbait I'm used to but the low effort still gets to me. At least (You) got some nice digits.

Wait for the expansion to drop if you're planning on buying, they might lower the price for it

I've settled settled on the warlock eventually. What surprised me was that I wasn't allowed to start at level 18 but only 14, that experience penalty already kicks in on character creation and not only on experience gained during the game. My real powerspike kicks in at 22 Ihope I still have a lot fof the game left by then.
In the OC they gave you khelgar as your very first one I felt a sense of safety from it incase the player made a caster or a rogue but in MOTB the first 2 you get are casters. We are 3 casters now and in a way this is kinda really good since we can use our strongest spells without having to worry about killing our melee. Empowered Isaac greater magic storm on a single target feels damn good seeing all those red numbers stacked. There seems to be some affinity system in MOTB. I'm not sure what that is about but I'm not interested in romancing the bald girl or the blue guy. If this is like the OC where we go raid Dwarven tombs and other sidestories then it'll be alright.

I haven't tried SOZ yet, I'll probably stick with MOTB until I finish that for now. I'm a really slow player I read all the books they give me, talk with the priests at the temples to learn about their gods and what they stand for. Getting a feel for the whole world is what I like in these games.

Maybe if you're in to furries. She reminded me of Imoen in that nagging bitch who won't keep her mouth shut kind of a way

I mean fair enough, not exactly sure you put effort into a post, that's mostly a comment. I mean not even sure what your implying by bate. I think the time ever baited was on Holla Forums and that was mostly a shit post.

But since your wanting effort.

Game's like Grim Dawn, and path of exile look amazing, my point is, their so little of the old Diablo clones at the moment that it bothers me, on a deep personal level, as finding these types of games has been a rare thing as of late.

Now plenty of top down games, but not sense of what Diablo Clones usually do. the way how you build your character, in whatever way you usually want, growing more powerful and uncontrollable, ememy's that used to give you hard time only to be crushed later on by sheer power alone.

Really makes it fun and makes it feel like their's a real sense of progression, and not many games do that with the gameplay. I haven't seen a triple aaa game do in years. Bethesda hasn't done a game like that since Oblivion.

Sure the game will progress the more you go though, but you don't actually grow behold a threshold.

Fuck in skyrim, you get uber power already with the ability to rag doll enemy's like nothing. But then guess what happens. It goes no where behold that. So what if I learn a new spell, it doesn't feel any more effective beyond the damage it deal, very few spells or just gameplay points really feel like progress has been made.

You can't just hit the threshold and do nothing after. Because all your left with is a stale and boring game after that makes you feel like your not actually going anywhere, besides something that's even more pointless.

Now, user, I hope this slates your need for effort.

I bought Grim Dawn recently and I think it was pretty good although I didn't really like the way you build your character. It's the same system Titan Quest had where you mix two classes and you always feel like you're wasting skillpoints when you're leveling up.

What do you think of path exile building then? If you ever played it. Honestly for me, it feels like their's a lot their, almost too much at a time. Plus whole I have to waste a skill point just too reach a passive I really want, urks me a lot.

I actually like the way grim dawn, and apparently titan quest does it, because the points are separate, as they should be. Plus it doesn't make me feel like I have to gind forever just to get a build I really want.

If you are "slow player" just like myself then you will have some hard times with SOZ because it1s a fucking grind fest to get everything!

Lowest common denominator