Well recently while on a thread, I had a bit of talk about doom and fps's, and it's come to my mind, that tnt is the single worse thing to happen to gaming, since tf2 went free to play.
So is their and actual way you could make the tnt maps good, without heavily changing or flat out removing them?
What's a TnT? Why its related to both doom and tf2?
Part of the Final Doom standalone expansion to Doom 2.
At least it got a good soundtrack.
I personally hate key collecting system of doom. That's the only reason i don't play it now. Any game is better than a shooter where you run around whole map searching for a shitty key like its quest or something.
Uh, no, the problems run way too deep. Some of the maps need a lot of work adding architecture that can add as cover against the hitscan hordes. I mean shit, how the hell could you turn a turd like habitat into a good map without just scrapping the whole thing?
I mean, yeah, but listening to just makes me want to slam my head against a wall because it just reminds me of. "Boy look at all the chain gunners time to kill myself again"
Let's not forget the shit ton of archviles in all the maps, map three already a fucking reverent. Because game design.
Not mention some of it's just so sloppy because of just lazy texture placement. How about that final level, with instant death pits.
git gud
rephrase what you just said nigger.
I don't really mind the use of higher tier monsters early on since I was looking for something harder at the point in time I started playing TnT. What I mind is the poor placement of them with no regards to how the level is designed.
I can guarantee you cry about Plutonia.
I actually enjoy'ed the later levels of Plutonia, I even liked Plutonia 2, I never finished it but it was fun. I think I enjoyed Plutonia so much because I had just the basic brutal doom mod on, and that played with the levels really well. Honestly I think brutal doom vanilla, is better project brutally , and nudoom, just because it's simpler and has some grace to it's gore you know, their just so much detail to it and the enemy improvements really give it the kick I needed.
When I actually beat Plutonia I felt really happy after words, just felt satisfying and really enjoyable, unlike the shit fest that was tnt. I ran trailblazer with that and colorful hell.
I think really, all I need for doom to be really fun, is just brutal doom, because while it changes a lot of things, their's still a lot of simple things at play, and their's a beauty in simplicity.
...
Well fuck
The levels were not good. Yeah Plutonia did it better, but that music totally made up for it. 4/10: I posted, but I'm not going in too far.
The reason I say the later levels, is because Plutonia really starts slow, sure the ememy's start heavy early on, but the levels all tight and compact and it makes it slower, the later levels are were it really shines and shows off, its just done really well.
The only new enemy in doom II I absolutely despise.
Everyone hates archviles but all you need is some cover and they aren't that bad. Revenants fuck you up if you get hit but you can dodge both of their fire modes if you're clever/lucky, and they are enough of a glass cannon to take down in two shots. CG's either needed a TINGE less health (so they would be reliably killable at midrange) or slightly less damage output. Either that or they shouldn't have been hitscan.
plutonia is fun.
Ok, given that not all of Evilution's maps are bad. I'll take this on a level-by-level basis:
Map01: Yeah it's kinda short and easy, but it's a level 1. Gives you a berserk pack at the start which begs you to go Tyson, which is totally doable. It's good as it is.
Map02: Some fairly good combat encounters and a cool secret. The main issue is all the tedious backtracking needed to get to all the secrets. Fix: Make some stairs and stuff assemble as you progress making it easier to get around.
Map03: A good candidate for a complete do-over. There's some fairly inconsequential side areas and then the main courtyard of hitscan death. The main area and the building in the middle could be made more involved and interesting and the chaingunner count need to be drastically decreased.
Map04: Neither a particularly good map nor a particularly bad one, but an interesting gimmick. Perhaps change when the final exit opens up to make the map less cheesable.
Map05: This map is fine as is. Perhaps the fight in the computer room could be less chaingunner-centric, but then again you have angles.
Map06: The map is fine as is, mostly. It's a bit too easy. They could have made better use of the reactor area and the room with the revenants and the rocket launcher needs a redesign.
Map07: Most of it could use a redesign. The central gimmick can be neutered with the secret invul sphere. I say lighten up the prison room a bit and give the player a rocket launcher and some armor and make them learn how to handle an imp crossfire the hard way. Also revenants in open areas with little cover or height differences is a dick move.
Map08: Wide open areas and hitscan galore. Fill the empty factory halls with big chunky machinery to break sightlines and perhaps introduce a bit more heavier monsters to make up for it. The last area is also horrifying but I don't know what to do with it without ruining it's charm.
Map09: This map is perfect, don't fix. Yes it is a hitscan hell, but it has plenty of terrain to break sightlines and give you ambush points and retreat options, but it has enough monsters to really make you use them. Oh yeah, there is that one trap in the narrow ickwall service tunnel that's really unfair unless you know of it in advance. Perhaps redesign that one to give first time players a fighting chance.
Map10: If you don't know of the traps it's nasty. If you do it's boring. Make the design less trap/ambush-centric.
Map11: The outside area is kinda cool and fairly realistic and while I guess a warehouse being full of crates is somewhat realistic the crate-maze part of this level is total shit. I say keep the exterior and redesign the entire interior. In an actual warehouse there's more than just towering stacks of crates like small quarters/offices for the warehouse workers, cranes, forklifts and stuff that's not packaged in crates. Also if you keep that teleport trap make it spew out monsters all over the warehouse instead of them mainly arriving at one hotspot that can be camped. Also with lots of height variations why nut bust out some cacodemons to fly around and be annoying?
Map12: A good candidate for a complete redesign. Only cool part is that auditorium-style trap room. The big outside area could be a perfect site for a cyberdemon fight. There's space enough for one. And what the fuck is the deal with that huge-ass mega-secret that almost spans the entire level? At one hand, it's kinda cool. On the other, what the fuck is the point of it?
Map13: This map is perfect as it is. Don't fix. It looks cool. Despite being huge it has good connectivity and the fight are all reasonable, even the cheeky cyberdemon in the start room.
Map14: Cool idea. Some of the areas look cool. Plays like shit. Everything needs to be redesigned. Less hitscan hordes, please. I would probably still keep the overall progression of the level, and the final spider mastermind reveal is cool. Even if you seen it coming form a mile away. ("Gee, that's an awful big crate, what could be inside it"). Perhaps make the starting courtyard a lot bigger so there's place for a fair Arachnotron/Mastermind fight with enough cover and force the player into it instead of laming it from the windows.
Map15: Looks like a 1994 map. Plays like a 1994 map, if one of the better ones. The problem is that much of it's charm comes from it's 1994-ness. Probably be a bit more aggressive in repopulating the outside area and make sure all of the secrets have a "tell" to minimize Wolfenstein-style wallhumping.
Con'td:
Map31: If we disregard the glaring errors that I think have been fixed in later re-releases of the wad I can't really put a big finger on anything. Perhaps those big ammo dumps are not the most elegant design I've seen, but it's nice to have a choice of which weapon you like to use rather than go with what you can scrounge ammo for. Some of the big areas could probably do with being a bit more populated, perhaps even midly (perish the thought) "slaughte'ish". Perhaps the super secret exit should be bit more involved too.
Map32: It's perfect as it is. Perhaps the end fight is a bit rough, but then again it's map 32. You're asking for it.
Map16: The only good thing about this map is the general caves style. Weak encounters and annoying level progression. Make an entirely new map, but keep the theme.
Map17: This map is decent as it is.
Map18: This map is stylistically cool and the gameplay is generally good. Even the big showdown works well. Only thing i'd say is: 1: The hitscanner behind the false wall in the room with the big irregular columns need to go. 2. What's the point of the invis-sphere secret in the final room? It's pretty much the last thing you'll want it in a projectile-based fight including a freaking cyberdemon and lost souls.
Map19: This map is too easy. Otherwise good.
Map20: I have a hard time criticizing this map because it was one of my favourites back when I was a kid. The areas around the big circular nukage area definitely needs more visual detail and I think the final outdoor area could be made less annoying while still keeping the difficulty high.
Map21: Cool concept, but too much backtracking and too much empty space. The level should probably be more proactive with keeping the main corridors populated to keep you on your toes, but that might make 100% kills runs annoying when you're searching for that last critter. Also there should be a way back from the last battle royale area. That said area could be made more interesting. Let it have more shit than just boatloads of imps and a teleporting cybie. Hell, just push the slaughter-button on that one and perhaps make the final area a bit less featureless.
Map22: The quintessential "What the hell were they thinking" map. Could use a whole freaking redesign as just about everything about this level sucks. Well, there's parts that can stay. Keep the cheeky "grab the BFG and use it immediately" secret. Keep the cool morphing room as well (even if it's less cool than the Icarus map01 one). Keep the overall visual design of the water tunnels. But for all that's holy. Trash the entire level layout and redo it from scratch.
Map23: This map is too easy for it's slot and should probably appear earlier or get a difficulty increase. It's not too bad otherwise.
Map24: This map is just straight up boring. It's not bad per se. The visual design is decent, but uninspired and so is the gameplay. It need a more bold and ambitious do-over.
Map25: Connecting all your areas with tiny dark ashwall tunnels is a fucking cop-out. This map could probably be condensed into a much smaller space and become a tighter more John Romero'ish style level and would be greater for it.
Map26: I think the overall theme and progression of this level is cool enough, but all the encounters is just a tad "off". It's hard to explain what should be done with level other than "keep all the features, but make them better".
Map27: I would argue that this "big fortress of fuck you" is a cool endgame level, but it really needs a bit more health and armor to make it tolerable. Also the sewer section is a pointless waste of time and should be redesigned. But keep the finale of the level mostly the same. It's a cool idea and it should be a harrowing fight.
Map28: This map is fine as it is. It looks like a Casali map. It plays like a Casali map. It Is a Casali map.
Map29: I think everyone expects lava floors to be hurt floors. Especially when blood floors are. But then again that area would be total hell if they were. Also the final arena showdown just lack the pomp and circumstance of such a big gothic hell palace level.
Map 30: Your feelings towards this level are probably to a large degree informed by how much you hate "Last Call"-puzzles. If you absolutely loathe them then this is the level that introduced them and gave them a a name. Other than that I kinda like final levels that actually have some buildup before dumping you into the usual Icon of Sin battle. Still some of those antechambers are just a tad too big, empty, brown and underdetailed.
For fucks sake. Stop having the super shotgun out at all times, save it for small cramped corridors (which is what a shotgun should be used for), that's why you're dying. You can stunlock chaingunners with your own chaingun, you can also snipe them with two shot bursts from said chaingun which are 100% accurate. The chaingun should be the weapon you have out as your default, not the shotgun. It is incredibly useful in ambush scenarios and stunlocking enemies. Congratulations, you now know how to play TnT Evilution.
And they're hypocritical enough to give Plutonia a free pass when it has the most aggravating hitscan level of them all. (Map15, it even has hidden untargetable archviles to resurrect the chaingunners).
Because there is plenty of cover in that map, you moron. The complaint isn't, "hitscan = bad", it's "hitscan in rooms so big the auto aim can't even target enemies + absolutely no cover whatsoever = bad." Not to mention, that little strip of chaingunners is hardly the hardest part of that map.
It's really only Map03 and Map08 that are a problem in this regard. Map03 is managable if somewhat annoying with hugging the outer ring until you can methodically clear out the stuff in the center.
Map27's problem is a lack of health/armor. It is a "journey through pain" kind of map.
By the way, Map09 is actually a great hitscan map because it gives you ample corners and reasonable engagement distances.
This.
This.
It is so surreal seeing people complain about something almost as old as I am, by the way.
Well, doom has pretty much out lived most games at this point, given how so many moders and makers keep it alive at this point. I only brought up tnt, as it was really the last time I sat down and played doom, instead of playing a map for five minutes, and I honestly just came away hating life and fps's after. I mean, I had trailblazer which is a very good mod, but even with new weapons and guns, and ememy's just if I wasn't bored to death I was fucking pissed and wanting it all to fucking end.