Roguelike Thread

nope, nuclear throne was vlambeer

They do? I think you're mixing roguelikes with roguelites it's a gay term I know.
None of the games in the images you posted are proper roguelikes (games like rogue). They just have procedually generated maps and permadeath but don't play anything like rogue, a turn based dungeon crawler does.

I've played plenty of rogue-likes and rogue-lites but none of them have what I'm looking for.
I.E. persistent worlds where you can multiple character playthroughs in until retirement/death.
The only game that has all tge ingredients is Dwarf Fortress Adventurer Mode but I have to wait until the next update Adventurer Mode NPCs are static outside fortress mode. And don't yet offer quests.

Downwell is made by a jap, nuclear throne was made by fags

They offer quests, they're just not particularly good quests.

Rogue Legacy is garbage, just leaving this here.

Why are games that are nothing like rogue called roguelike?

Hipsters

because you want fat rogue cock in your ass

none of these are even rougelikes

Shouldn't hipsters be good with genres? That's kind of the defining feature of hipsters. They're not just listening to "rock" or "pop" like the rest of us but some progressive psychedelic pop-rock that's nothing like alternative indie punk rock and they know exactly why they're so different genres.

yes
check my collection

The point is that these "roguelikes" are exactly that, and that they're also completely wrong. Hence the distaste.

caves of qud everything else is hipster trash using rogue like as a buzzword

if hipsters werent retarded they wouldnt be hipsters. they would be us.

I've never gotten any fish with baits like that on the right. Sometimes I've seen perches chase them a bit but those little bastards even follow a bait bigger than they are just for laughs so that doesn't mean anything. Fucking bullshit.

makes me think

I barely use them.
Those are inherited from my father and I keep them like a novelty, mostly I use a regular hook with a live worm or the "spoons" on the left.

Yes I use those on the right, and I caught trouts (90% of my rivers fish) with them

None of the images are roguelikes you massive faggot

Procedurally generated you retard.
Roguelikes have saving you retard.
Nothing to do with being a roguelike

bamp

Kill yourself? Your statement is so blitheringly idiotic that I’m even confused at just HOW I want to tell you to die.

How was Everspace anons?
I really liked FTL if that matters. Put some 400 hours on that game.

Caveblazers

two words: Dwarf Fortress.
but you should stick to your shitty competitive shooters.

Here's my current DCSS character. Recently cleared the Lair of Beasts, now gonna clear up the Orc mines.

Anyone else played DCSS? Got any stories?

I used to play this but stopped because developers started removing more than adding imo

No one cares, totalasscancer.

That's something that has had me scratching my head too. Most recently it seems they removed the ability to pray all together.

SHITPOST REDDIT THREADS
REPORT REDDIT OPS

DO NOT ALLOW FOR THE CANCER TO NORMALIZE

Go play more Undertale your favorite roguelike, fag.

There's Elona.
There's a mode without permadeath that is usually the best way to play it, you just lose items, gold and some stats.
Then there's the permadeath mode, which isnt' recommended because the world is so vast.
You can create genes by getting laid with a loved one then start a new adventure from that gene after you die, effectively playing as the descendant of your late character, but I think you only inherit some items and stuff, story and quest progression are lost if I'm not mistaken.

I think of those games as action roguelikes, like there's traditional turn based RPGs then there's action RPGs, they're still RPGs even tough they have action based gameplay, shouldn't those games that have action gameplay but roguelike mechanics also be considered roguelikes?

by your definition ThiAf is an action role playing game because it has XP and gear progression

is the core gameplay mechanic of a game LIKE rogue?
then its a rogueLIKE
is the core gameplay mechanic of a game NOT LIKE rogue?
then its NOT a rogueLIKE

when a game breaks a genres convention too hard it belongs to another genre
Diablo was initially invisioned as a "real time roguelike", and guess what, it broke out into the genre of "action RPG", because thats how genre conventions work

simple epic, OP!

Try to ascend in NetHack in 30 minutes, braggart.

As this thread evidences, they get hate mainly from Autism around semantics. Maybe everyone should just call them rogue* because this thread has devolved into garbage.

Anyone played cogmind, is it worth the money ?

OR you know, we could just use the already established terms correctly instead of insisting that every fucking game with permadeath is a roguelike. I'm sure everyone ITT has enough brain capacity to add one more word into their vocabulary and then use it properly.

Played it. Besides the visuals it's bare bones at the moment. The procedural generation is week, you only have like one character to play with, few weapons, all this means fuck all replayability. Until it becomes a worthy roguelike, abstain from giving 20 dollars.

There's roguelite. Honestly what we really need is sheet explaining what makes a roguelike. Like if a game meets enough features and similarities it passes for a rogue.

Hmm strange, looking over the devblogs it reads like it's an almost finished game

Sorry if this is not the right thread, but does anyone know the game from the pic?

I'm pretty sure he wasn't first one to use the term

Don't even know about ThiAf so I can't comment on that.
But then it depends on what is considered more important for a game to be what it is, what makes their core mechanics.
The way you control it or the way the systems that the game use. Both are important of course.
In Diablo's case it's because it deviatd too much from rogue style games, both in gameplay and with it's systems. Unless you're playing the hardcore mode, you don't feel the impact of it's procedural generated content and of course it doesn't have permadeath. the way the character growth works is also nothing like a roguelike game.
Elona on the other hand is the opposite, it plays just like an roguelike with grid turn based movement and world interactions, but it's normal mode doesn't have permadeath, it has lots of content that doesn't change on different playtroughs. If that game didn't have that roguelike movement and combat mechanics, I doubt anyone would link it to the genre. Whereas many games that don't have that play a lot like roguelikes only with different movement and combat mechanics.

that vehicle description part with frame reminds me cataclysm.

The objectively superior roguelike is Minecraft.

If something is 90% roguelike (elona) its a roguelike with a twist. Theres no discussion whenever Elona is a roguelike because it undeniably is a roguelike.

If something is less than 50% roguelike its not a roguelike. Its whatever else it is with a twist.

Its not hard.

YES!
I like that train of thought.
You've good with words, that red text is a great way of putting it.
The issue here is defining what can constitute that 50% of roguelikeness.
To me, having action gameplay but with all other signature roguelike stuff such as permadeath and procedurally generated content is enough for it being at least 50% roguelike.
This isn't not about knowing what is objectively right or wrong, it's just about that it's not doesn't matter if one refers to those games as roguelikes since they clearly do have many roguelike elements to them, maybe a mix of two genres, like platformer and roguleike in Spelunky's case, but still roguelike.
It's not like comparing Crash Bandicoot to Dark Souls or anything like that.

nigger its simple

ALL core game mechanics of a roguelike DEPEND on it being turn based with grid based movement

if the game is turnbased with grid based movement, it MIGHT be a roguelike
if the game is not turnbased with grid based movement, it MOST DEFINITELY ISNT a roguelike

Aren't permadeath and procedural also core mechanics? Isn't turn based with grid based movement just one of the core mechanics?
Couldn't the opposite also be valid?
"if the game is procedurally generated with permadeath, it MIGHT be a roguelike
if the game is not procedurally generated with permadeath, it MOST DEFINITELY ISNT a roguelike"
To me the second part of both arguments isn't right, as long as it has either the grid movement or the procedural permadeath thing it can be considered a roguelike.
In those games's case, they lack the movement mechanics but not the rule mechanics of roguelikes, so they're essentially roguelikes by being 50% roguelikes as you said. Not entirely, classic roguelikes, but still roguelikes.

no it couldnt
if its not turn and grid based its not a roguelike
period
its not up to debate because its the biggest OBJECTIVE disqualifier

if your game of choice passes the turn based grid based test, it MIGHT be a roguelike
if it doesnt, its OBJECTIVELY not a roguelike

Why tough? Your pic seems highly descriptive to your own post.

Because then it's not a rogue-like. Like how an FPS can't be in 3rd person. Or an RTS can't be turn based.

Dark Souls 3 it's my favorite rouguelike, what other games are like this

An FPS can't be 3rd person becuase then it wouldn't be a 1st person, same thing with Turn based games not being Real time.
Theres' nothing in the name roguelike that implies that it's specifically the character movement that needs to be similar to Rogue's.

What an odd video.

So you're saying that roguelike has no meaning because it is not self descriptive?
That's retarded, and certainly not how words work. But you're probably trolling at this point.

Isn't this kind of game considered a rogue-lite, and not a roguelike? I couldn't really get into roguelikes before, so I'm no master on the genre, but, I'm fairly certain roguelikes are the (sometimes) dungeon crawling text-based games, like IVAN, CDDA, Dwarf Fortress, and most importantly the game the roguelike genre got its name from, Rogue.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

also, rogue-lites are one of my favorite game genres

seems this is already being debated about, serves me right for not reading the thread fully before posting

No, I'm saying that a roguelike game game needs to be like Rogue.
There's many ways of doing that, one is by having similar character control and ways the player interacts with the game, such as the Turn-based grid movement.
And other is to implement similar rules and ways the game presents itself to the player, such as having permadeath and procedurally generated content.

Some people didn't like that some roguelike games deviated too much from the genre, saying they require both movement and rules from Rogue to be a true roguelike, so the roguelite term was invented, to describe games that don't have all mecahincs from the Rogue game.
Like I said before, most roguelites can't be described as action roguelikes.
I hate turn based RPG's with a few exceptions, but I love action RPGs, they're both considered RPG games tough.

a genre descriptor is a word given to a combination of traits a game has

roguelike is, sorted by importance:
turn and grid based
roleplaying mechanics
procedurally generated levels
permadeath

in FPS its:
must be 1st person
must have shooting
must have real time movement on at least 2 dimensions (thanks CoD)

if an FPS doesnt have real time movement, its called a rail shooter, its not an FPS anymore
if an FPS doesnt have 1st person, its a TPS
if it doesnt have shooting, its most likely an adventure of sorts

so why do you insist that a game that does not feature turn and grid based movement is still eligible for being called a roguelike?

I want to start a dorf fort on a volcanic island. Is that fun, very fun or simply impossible?

I am also interested in knowing this

its Cataclysm DDA

ditching pray was fine because no one used it and it was a vestige of the old old system where everytime you killed something you had to sacrifice it which meant a whole lot of pointless turn wasting as your prayed on top of everything you slaughtered

be angrier about how they fucked mutation completely, and are slowly getting rid of every spell that hypothetical autistic man might use to break the game under very narrow parameters.

That and they're infested with faggots that want to remove anything possibly offensive (Sword of Jihad for example)

It seems to me like you have a problem with what does a word mean and how does a word describe itself as.
Let's say for the sake of argument that instead of using FPS to describe first person shooters, people would use "doomlike". Would you then argue that even a sidescroller shooter with weapon pickups could be called a doomlike? Or would you rather invent a new word to describe a game like that? Maybe a word like "doomlite"?
Genres are a useful thing that makes it easier for people to search for similar things. Unless you would like to search for a comedy movie and get a documentary instead just because it has some funny things in it.

if it does need every item on that list there is no importance tiers.
Also saying that it is absolutely necessary is pretty subjective.

It's like RPGs that I"ve been mentioning.

They're all shooters in the end right?

You could had Shooter, then doomlike, and then someone said a sidescrolling shooting games wasn't just a shooter, but a doomlike then that would be wrong.
If doomlike was used to describe shooter games in general, then Doom would be a first person doomlike, and the sidescrolling one would be a sidescrolling doomlike.

The deal with roguelike is that there is no other broader genre that roguelikes belong to that have that kind of features, so games that have that kind of feature need to be roguelikes of some sort.

Just wondering, how exactly do you determine the importance of the different elements in a game genre?

None of those games are rougelikes OP.

so you ARE trolling, gotcha

by magnitute of exclusion

whats the most surefire way to tell if a game is an FPS?
whenever it has 1st person view, if it doesnt have it, its definitely not an FPS
for roguelikes its turn based grid based movement, if a game doesnt have it, its definitely not a roguelike

roguelikes, games that are like rogue
most roguelites are entirely different genres like platforming, strategy, top down action. they only bother to take the name roguelite because they have some form of death that requires you to start again from the beginning (and most are pretty lenient on that).

The correct term would be roguelite or perhaps accepting that procedural generation + permadeath is not a genre (like FPS) but actually a gameplay feature (like Open World).

Also for a more constructive answer: you can't just replace quality handmade content with procedural generation and permadeath, that's just fucking lazy. If the entire game is actually based around that it can sometimes work but more often than not it's just a way of producing inferior content without paying someone to do it the proper way. Hell the 'handful' of times you win can just as often be luck as anything else the correct and incorrect way to design a game around managing luck could have a thread to itself but most roguelites fall into 'incorrect' rather than 'correct'. When you rely on procedural generation for everything you lose the advantages of a consistent atmosphere, effective pacing (both in terms of gameplay and plot), a solidly designed difficulty curve, well written characters (or indeed any characters at all) etc etc.

No, you just keep playing until you work out how to game the procedural generation shit and end up just rushing to one of a handful of effective meta-builds. The levels might be theoretically different every time you play but the actual gameplay quickly becomes stale once you've got the tricks down and replay value drops unless you're the type of faggot who enjoys losing runs to RNG.

In Caves of Qud you can enter a specific world seed. That would be like persistent world, right?

That's what you say when you run out of arguments?

It's definitely not the game Rogue, but a game can play similar to it without the same exact control mechanics.

Aren't they like Rogue in that regard tough? Those also have procedurally generated levels/stuff in them too, another similarity to Rogue.

I will add that many of these criticisms also apply to traditional roguelikes (note: these are a genre since they are narrowly defined) as well as procedural generation + permadeath indies (again, not a genre). Actual roguelikes also often, but not always, confuse over-complication for depth. DoomRL is a notably rougelike that avoids that trap.

kill yourself

This dude has a great argument tough.
Saying that permadeath + procedural generation doesn't make a genre, they're just features…
Doesn't all roguelikes have that, tough? shouldn't it be part of what defines the genre?

I think genres are rapidly becoming outdated by themselves.

The best way to describe games seems to be a core genre for the gameplay (eg racing game) and then gameplay features (stealth, open world, procgen, crafting)

Not him but I'd do it by something like 'how likely people are to enjoy similar games'. People who like turnbased + grid games are going to be upset if that feature is missing, the absence of permadeath is not going to be a huge issue for the vast majority of people. Distinguishing genres is only necessary as far as it actually helps people to understand which games are similar.

see

YEEAH DUUUDE YOURE RIIIIGHT, MAAN WHY DONT WE JUST ABOLISH WORDS AND JUST USE LETTERS INSTEAD

All roguelikes do yes, but roguelites are games of any number of genres that just happen to share permadeath + procedural generation. Roguelike (or if you prefer 'traditional roguelike') is a genre, roguelite is a vague grouping of games from many different genres that merely share one gameplay element.

Again if someone likes one roguelike and asks for a similar game there's fair odds they'll like any other roguelike. If someone enjoys one 'roguelite' and asks for a similar game then there's no guarantee another 'roguelite' will be in any way comparable.

The actual genres that are worth keeping already do this, what we need to do is drop genres that are unhelpful and create new ones where needed.
That's what sub-genres are for though Stealth (Thief, Splinter Cell) is a genre while stealth-as-a-gameplay-option (Deus Ex, Dishonored, DMoMM) is a gameplay element. That's another issue entirely.

Or for a very simple thought:
Genres are only acceptable as far as they're useful: if someone enjoys a game can I recommend them any other game from that same genre with a reasonably high chance of their enjoying that other game? If yes then genre is well-defined, if no then it needs to be redefined, discarded or given more granularity with sub-genres (i.e. repeat the original sentence with 'sub-genre' instead of 'genre' and see how that works out).

You'll note that things like Roguelike, RTS, RTT etc pass this test while things like Rougelite, Open-World and Immersive Simulator fail it.

So both things constitute a roguelike game?
Then figure this:
You want to combine two genres.
Let's say we want a roguelike racing game.
We could do it in two ways then:

Wound't the game be both on the roguelike and racing genres on both examples?

Embed related is Captain Tsubasa.
A weird mix of Footbal(Soccer) and RPG(or strategy? don't know here, haven't actually played this one).

sometimes i wonder about this. Permadeath is like some flavoring on top of some prime grilled fish or something, but changing that flavoring doesn't change the actual meal itself as a whole. I mean it's considered a core aspect of roguelikes, but think about it, if I was given the option to save in CataDDA or DCSS or any other roguelike that doesn't delete upon my death, does it suddenly mean DCSS isn't a roguelike? All the core mechanics are there except for a change to its save mechanic, it doesn't do much to change the actual gameplay or how you gain victory.
I'm not making the argument either way, it's just food for thought.

That's a great point actually, I haven't thought of it like this before.
I've seen some faggots arguing about it on the steam discussion pages, full of cancer and if you leave even a tiny wiggle room in your definition some massive retards will try to claim something that obviously isn't a RL could be considered one.

Fail it because all three are gameplay elements (translate roguelite as 'procedural generation + permadeath' and immersive simulator as 'first-person non-linear game').

Apply this test and see what result you get.

Actually I'd agree, I don't think permadeath is strictly speaking necessary for a roguelike though it does generally need some sort of harsh penalty for death. Certainly it's lower on the list of essential features than is turn-based gameplay.
Indie devs and pretentious journalists want to legitimise the new waves of indies by latching onto some of the oldest games still around and not considered 'dated'. It's a shame because I'd rather see fags try something openly new.

One other benefit of that test is you can reverse it and use it to eliminate sub-genres that are too specific: do they prevent me from easily recommending games by splitting broadly similar vidya into separate categories? If so discard the sub-genre.

That's a good point too, but the same could apply to RPGs and action RPGs.
Or to hybrid games.

This is not clear: what do you mean by the same? Do you mean fags who like roguelikes might also likes RPGs or aRPGS or that the same test applies there?
Truly hybrid games are rare and are best treated as a sub-genre of one of the genres following something like this fag's % rule. Deus Ex, for example, is an FPS-RPG but it's clearly more towards the RPG side so it's a sub-genre of that. STALKER is an FPS-RPG more towards the FPS side.

CDDA has that

so you just outed yourself as someone who doesnt even play roguelikes and has no stake in the question, thus just stirrs up shit with nonsensical debates a la cuckchan/v/

case closed, proceed to kill yourself please

It woulnd't work on that test. It would work on a different test, same with the captain tsubasa game since apparently both are hybrid games belonging to two genres.

If someone enjoys two games from different genres can I reccomend a game that mixes both genres with a reasonably high chance of their enjoying that other game? If so the game has a high chance of being of both genres.
Something similar happened to me when I recommended a friend that loved both Megaman X and Castlevania SOTN the game Super Metroid and he loved it.

Games like Spelunky Are a mix of roguelikes and platformers, a player that likes both genres will most likely like it.

Means that the same test aplies, A fag that really digs traditional RPGs might not really like ones with action combat and vice-versa

Don't know that one, doesn't mean shit.
And it has what? A racing mode?
You mean to tell me that a classic, grid-based, turn based roguelike has actively running laps against other units in the same game in tracks toward finish lines?>>12998155

no what I mean to tell you is that you should kill yourself

Nice of you to post pics of a 2hu that accurately represents your IQ.

I disagree, let's look at both cases:
A few seconds thought tells me racing vidya fans will not enjoy this but roguelike players probably will at least they have a higher chance of liking it than fans of any other genre and we shouldn't go around making genres for single games: I could not recommend it to a fan of racing vidya with a high chance of sucess and so it does not belong in that genre, I could to a fan of roguelikes and so it belongs there. Obviously if it is 'with real time combat' then it's no longer a roguelike, it'd be some form of extremely strange RTT or perhaps tactical-RPG.
Apply the same test and it'll clearly appeal to racing vidya fans over roguelike fans. Perhaps the racing-simulator sub-genre rather than a standard racing game but the test provides a simple answer there. You've just added sort-of-permadeath to a racing game after all so that's the expected result.

It will still fall primarily into one of the two genres (or more likely be a sub-genre of one of the two genres). In the highly unlikely chance that does not happen it'd be a better idea to either just outright decide is belongs in one genre or to create a new genre for the exceptional cases if they are particularly common. In general though we want to avoid creating extra genres wherever possible.
Sub-genres are similar to the genres they are a sub-genre of and vice-versa, this is not a surprise and is the reason they are sub-genres and not full genres in their own right. That neatly covers such cases I would think.

See the part about sub-genres below.

Definition for sub-genres:
If someone likes a game from a genre can I recommend them a game from one of its sub-genres with a reasonable (but lower) chance of success and vice-versa? Additionally do the genre and sub-genre share at least one-two key gameplay elements? If they pass both tests they are a sub-genre rather than a full standalone genre. Within a sub-genre use the same test as for a genre.

yer unsure about how to go about offing yourself already?
pills is your most painless option, but if I were you Id set a precedent and light myself on fire in front of the HQ of a vidya publisher of your choice

Anyway that gives three tests as far as I can see:
1. How to decide if games belong in a genre/sub-genre (and thus if we need to create a new genre/sub-genre).
2. If a sub-genre is actually a sub-genre and not a new genre of its own (and similarly if a genre is actually a sub-genre in disguise).
3. How to classify a genre-hybrid.

Final note on this:
I haven't got a full test yet but we can reduce 'key gameplay elements' to 'gameplay elements most likely to make similar games enjoyable/unenjoyable' and also weight key elements by the same test.

How do you magically determine the "percentage" of adherence to a genre?

Is that game supposed to start before or after the cataclysm itself? Every time I've installed it and started, I can play for about a minute before "you start to feel your arm heating up" and then the rest of your body parts get scorching hot and then my character vomits several dozen times per second, filling up the log with a thousand vomits until the game just crashes, every single time. I mean what the fuck.

Who gives a shit about ASCII roguelikes anymore?

no seriously, I want to know because I have an old RL project I've been wanting to pick back up

I kind of agree with most of this stuff.
But where does that leave games like Spelunky?

I still think the best way to describe it is a mix of Platformer and Roguelike. Maybe it's worth mentioning that platformer is its primary genre or something?

Gotta leave the computer now, Won't be able to post anymore, this was a nice discussion. Feel free respond, I'll be able to check it on my phone but god damn I'll not write on that shit.

I could suffocate myself inside your wife's ass, cuck boy.

ye, this a fruitful discussion

with the help of the "sensus communis" school of magic

also known as the "I think my opinions are facts" school of magic

Why does Cirno like those watermelon ice creams so much?

Plenty of people user but you'll have much wider appeal if you also offer a basic tileset.

2D Platformer with permadeath and procedural generation, potentially a sub-genre of 2D platformer and don't include it in the same sub-genre as FTL.
I've actually got a medium-term plan to throw up a review site (explicitly non-profit) with a discussion about genres on the side so this has indeed been helpful.

Not him but I'd weight gameplay elements by essentiality to successful recommendation (more essential = more important) and then see how much they share. It won't provide an actual % but it'll give you a rough grasp of it.

I wanted to make a BLAME! themed gaymu for a long time now but I cant into code

Why do morons keep saying roguelike and roguelite when they really mean arcadelike?
Tell me, does that sound like the game Rogue or does it sound more like an Arcade game?
It's time we started to call these games what they really are, procedural arcade games.

There will never be an end to this. No matter how many arbitrary bullet point lists and descriptions given. It's like Rei and Asuka fags.

no its a matter of LOL WHO CARES NERD postmodernism shitting on convention for no other reason but to do so

it wasnt a natural development, the fucking gaming press popularized the usage of the term "roguelike" for games that were not roguelikes and the industry rolled with it to not confuse retards in their purchasing decisions

Is that why both parties can't come to a fucking conclusion? At this point I'de rather have nobody care than have every thread about this shit being derailed with the age old debate. Game genre titles have been fucking shit and confusing as hell since the start though. No matter how you look at it there's always going to be an argument over semantics.

there are no "both parties"
theres people who play roguelikes and know what makes a roguelike, and there are shit-stirrers and normalfags
there is no compromise between one side shitposting and the other telling the first one to fuck off

and before you ask, reckless normalfaggotry is still shitposting

Thanks for proving my point then. No debate is better than retarded debate.

There are no sides because there is no debate.

There is no thread because there is no lack of autists whining. Keep posting.

except there is a proper roguelike thread and shitstirrers are mostly ignored there

nice try at being smug, try again

Yea just like this one :^)
You must not post there often then considering your post history in this thread. Keep posting fam.

It's FTL with dogfights instead of crew management.

...

okay

Post yfw you will never be this mad at semantics

...

I just don't like them personally. They're not up my alley, and while I dont' know the technical side of things, I think it's lazy to have a couple of pre-built levels and a dice roll decide the order and progression of those levels, with all the random chance that incorporates, rather than 'actual' level design. I could be wrong however, but from what I've played of Roguelikes, they're just frankly not up my alley.

What is it about Rougelikes threads that inspire such autism?

Read what I posted. Autists love debating semantics without realizing it.

He means Thief (originally had the idiotic title of Thi4f), the reboot of the Thief series that went about as well as the Ghostbusters reboot.

What about dice roll abstractions?

JW, the non muslim half of vlambeer worked on downwell

Hipsters, le epic trollsXD and the roguelike players, keep in mind that even among roguelike players there are debates on what makes roguelike roguelike, so autism is kinda natural.

Pretty shit explanation for someone trying to define roguelikes so seriously.

Anyway, roguelike can be explained as a crossbreed between RPG and puzzle as every encounter has at least one solution and if it doesn't either you don't know it or wasn't prepared enough for.
Thus comes the learning the game stuff and meta knowledge which is important part of roguelikes. Deal is you're expected to die, learn and die again, because you can't quickload you can't be stupid and hurrdurr everything, you gotta be careful or you'll have to start over, you want to learn. Knowledge = power. If the world or most of it wasn't procedurally generated then you'd learn how to beat the level like speedrunners do and win the game this way, but in roguelikes every run is unique, you can learn about monsters, their spawns, drop etc etc but every time you meat dangerous ones you gotta think how you'll deal with those.
Thus comes the puzzle, you have your stats and rolls and other shit and, enemy with its own shit and you have the playing field which is defined, all your action are discrete which is important for complex dungeon-cleaning puzzle-solving, also that means no real-time, you have all the time you want to think and take the chances, like what move to use, how many time units it takes and how many moves can enemy do during that time, if that skill can hit/damage/penetrate defense of enemy and other shit.

To compare to roguelites, FTL is roguelite I think it was the first well-known kikestarted and was a roguelike-like (as dev himself stated), but then came indie hipster trash copy faggets to make shekels off kikestarter and roguelite genre but because roguelike is older term it was used instead because muh marketing, it has permadeath, random levels and meta knowledge which is all used the same way as in roguelikes but it doesn't have time units, it's realtime and thus it's more simple form of puzzle, and by simple I don't mean it's easier than holding down numpad key to kill non-stop breeding bunnies that can't do anything to you, it simply lacks the ability to make precise calculations to get out of deepest shit possible.
Also permadeath might be optional, elona is roguelike but you can opt to not restart over but receive penalty instead, though some people consider lack of permadeath not a true roguelike and will sperg about as usual.

There is good discuss semantics.
It has gotten to a point where fan of games like DCSS or Elona won't ever play games like Rouge Legacy. Game with name specifically calling out original Rouge and always bunched up as same genre.

And it wouldn't be a problem but fucking marketers keep fucking using this term like Soulslike and add it to everything whatever it is rougelike or not. pic related

Oh and this is simply because it is bait thread.
Go on Elona thread next time and see for yourself.

and you deserve autistic reasoning on what rougelike is.
youtube.com/watch?v=B4ur5UoRcv0