>How DARE people look at Rorschach as a hero. His black and white ideals are childish and stupid...

>>129128712Depends on the principles.

>>129128706>Because of the mature concept Moore was developing DC suggested that perhaps he should write an original story insteadI think it was that DC didn't want to kill off half its newly aquired characters

>>129128641Supreme, nigga. Read Supreme.

Is this any good?

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>>129128581>MOM I MADE THE THREAD AGAIN!>Mom...?

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>>129128641Deconstruction is not easy to pull off. I think he's the only one to have pulled it off successfully, or at all, in the superhero genre. Maybe Busiek.That's a not a deconstruction, either.>>129128775No.

>>129128581youre really stupid, arent you"black andd white" doesnt mean you have...memory of people who do something wrong.

>>129128736no it doesn't. if you have principles you will be compromised in a capitalist economy.>>129128641>>129128666swamp thing was not a deconstruction, it was an advancement

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>>129128775>mocks Steve Ditko >mocks Otto Binder and makes “comedy” out of his 14 year old daughter dying in a car crash>is set in the watchmen HBO show universeAbsolute trash. No idea how Tom king gets work still

>>129128581>Look Ma, I reposted the same dumb bait thread again

>>129128828I think the reason he pulled it off so is that deconstruction is the shallowest reading of the book perhaps beyond just somehow avoiding reading ANY subtext at all. The pitfall of a lot of lesser deconstructions is they don't have shit to say about anything beyond what they're satrizing. Whereas Watchmen has a hell of a lot more to talk about than superheroes and uses the the idea of superheroes more as a useful device to represent the overall themes of the book.

>>129128862Alan Moore’s swamp thing immediately deconstructed it by retconning that he wasn’t even a man, just a monster who absorbed a mans memories and thought he was a man for a while

>>129128581Why does he want the rights anyway? He wasn't ever planning to make a sequel and if he did have the rights he'd still let DC publish anyway.

>>129128868>makes “comedy”But it's not comical, it's depicting the type of mass delusions the squid created in people.

>>129128875Superheroes are still central to the themes though.

>>129128886He doesn't want the rights anymore

>>129128881that's not a deconstruction>this is de because retyou need better reasoning and you have to overcome BLATANT PREFIXES

>>129128886He wanted money to make Watchmen merchandise slurpee cups No shit, that’s what he said in interviews

>>129128581It would be great when people stop to cares about what the authors thinks about characters they created. They either have terrible tastes never liking the favorite character of the audience or just start to hate everything they created.Pic related is one exemple very similar to Moore. Normies and speedwatchers are still denying his anime has meaningful esoteric content because he said it's not the case even if it's literally impossible.

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>>129128900While it's probably coincidental since he was originally out to write this using charleston heroes so it always would've been based around superheroes, the idea isn't just "what if superheroes real" and a lot more it's a really useful symbol to have people literally dressing themselves up in their ideologies in an attempt to hide their human failings.

>>129128706>(gee if only they had done that for Sue Dibny)

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>>129128746In the original pitch for this presumably the Charlston characters wouldn't have been killed off and that is probably something he developed once he had free reign to tell an original story with original characters

>>129128886>why does the creator want the rights to their original work

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>>129128920Moore and Gibbons actually own the Watchmen merchandising rightsThis is why there isn't any Watchmen merchandiseThey block it in retaliation to DC not ceasing the first printing and relinquishing the rightsI sometimes wonder if the film and tv series were made so that they could make Watchmen merchandise based on them rather than the comic

>>129128920I kind of want them too. Ones with Rorschach's mask and Comedian's button would sell like hotcakes.

>>129128581I don't know if Moore intended this or now, but Rorschach is one of the most sympathetic characters in Watchmen while is why he's such a fan favorite. Rorschach's moral objectivism autism comes living with an abusive single mom in the shittiest part of NYC. He's the only one that was willing to stick to his principles while the other Watchmen stood beside a genocidal narcissist with a god complex. Of course people are gonna see him as a hero, everyone else is worse. If Moore wanted people to hate Rorschach he should have made him as pathetic as Dollar Bill

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>>129129243>In the original pitch for this presumably the Charlston characters wouldn't have been killed offNopeIn the early stages of the Charlton project it was called "Who Killed the Peacemaker". He even mentions that Peacemaker's death is what starts the story, similar to Comedian's death starting the Watchmen comic. He likely was going to kill the Question off, too.>and that is probably something he developed once he had free reign to tell an original story with original charactersIf you actually read his pitch from Absolute Watchmen, Captain Atom was going to have the same problems that Doctor Manhattan did, and Thunderbolt was implied to be doing what Ozymandias did. Ted wasn't going to have sexual dysfunction (at least, not from the pitch) but he was going to have a sort of PTSD where he'd suddenly get paranoid at a restaurant and think something is some sort of elaborate supervillain plot and proceed to embarrass himself in front of everyone. When it got changed to Watchmen the real difference was really in Comedian (his character was totally different from Peacemaker's) and Silk Spectre (Moore didn't know much about Nightshade so when he found out he didn't need to use Nightshade he just came up with an all-new heroine who was like 99% different from Nightshade)

>>129129441Funny thing is Moore literally didn’t understand that Rorschach choosing death over compromise made him look heroic rather than stupid like he saw itHe just doesn’t understand people which is funny for a person who writes so much about humanity

>>129129582Where can I read this original pitch

>>129128581I barely even remember watchmen but the idea that Roarshac's great flaw is having an inflexible moral code is fucking retarded, he reads a newspaper that advocates for "sticking it to the reds" when it's clear that would cause a nuclear war, killing millions, but when Adrians plan to kill millions comes about, he rightfully sees it as a disgusting thing to do.

>>129129649Read Moore’s interviews about Rorschach being inspired by Mr A and Ditko’s Randian philosophy Shows how badly he failed in conveying it in Rorschach. He tried so hard to shit on his worldview yet made it the most heroic

>>129129665I know this is a dodge but the author is dead, we only have the text, and the text makes it pretty clear that Rorschach's self conception is wrong

>>129129678>the author is deadWhat? Alan Moore is alive

I think that most people don't really like Rorschach for any kind of imagined infallible moral code he has but rather because he's the perceived chad underdog in a world full of self-doubters and overthinkers

>>129129702en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_AuthorI was referring to this, when an Author releases their work, it's pretty silly to incorporate elements outside of the text to support ideas within the text, what Alan Moore said his intentions were when writing watchmen is less relevant than what's actually in the work

>>129129739Ah, fair enough. I mostly agree with that.

>>129129715Rorschach is based because he manages to drive the entire story and wield enormous influence through sheer force of will.Ozymandias, the smartest man in the world and billionaire has to take the time out of his day to frame Rorschach to try and slow him downDan, a genius with gadgets and great fighter still. Is a meek loser yapping about the old times with his father figure, doing nothing until Rorschach warns him about his crazy conspiracy.

>"Which of the babies is your favorite?"

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>>129129638>>129129441>He's the only one that was willing to stick to his principles>that Rorschach choosing death over compromiseHim choosing death is a compromise. He is a huge hypocrite who constantly fails to live up to his own rigid moral system. He doesn't stick to his principles at all. If he did he would have gone down futilely fighting. Instead HE LITERALLY GIVES UP.How are you people this fucking dumb that you don't get this? He takes off his "real face" and tells Jon to kill him as Kovach. That is a huge indication Rorschach has compromised by giving up his "real" identity to become boring old weak Walter Kovacs again who chooses euthanasia over fighting to the bitter end. How in the hell do you read that as "no compromise even in the face of Armageddon"? He chooses to allow himself to die without s fight specifically so that he doesn't have to acknowledge and live with the fact his pigheaded worldview doesn't work in the situation he found himself in because it would mean end of the world. He is a weak coward whi choosed to off himself because he can't stand Veidt and co. maybe being right. If he wad truly the kind of person you think Rorschach is he would have either kept walking and made Jon shoot him in the back, or he would have lunged at Jon despite it being futile.

>>129129816Hi Alan. Working on any sexy rape scenes?

>>129129648It was in Absolute Watchmen, but the pitch pages from there have been posted before:desuarchive.org/co/thread/128910651/#128911592

>>129129816>Him choosing death is a compromise.You say that like he could have done something else. What was he meant to do?If you have no choice. You’re not compromisingA person shot in the head isn’t compromising their belief in life by dying

>>129129770ozymandias, the smartest man in the world also took his time to personally off the comedianother than that I'd say that dan was more of a joker card since ozy never bothered to deal with him due to him assuming that his personal flaws of impotence would hinder him too muchand despite that he rose to the occasion and momentarily overcame some of his personal weaknesses which to me is very inspiring>>129129888there are always choicesthe issues is whether the choices make a larger difference in the end or not

How much do you need the drawing on a page to be what you want?I miss superman underwear, i miss the fact that he was a cool guy, but now he's mostly used to show how abusive a strong person can be. Poor batman was a smart theatrical guy wearing a weird costume investigating stuff trying to help a city. Now he's unbeatable, the bat themed ninja is capable of winning anything anytime against anyone.They don't just talk about how a green lantern is based on willpower, now it's a rainbow filled with angry cats and weird gender neutral aliens.Dr Manhattan was a pawn, ozymandias found his own explanation. Rorschach died... it's all comic books.I'll always find peace in Mobius Major, forever carrying his heavy bag into a desert. Who cares? The comedian cared, he's dead, funny joke, we laughed once.

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>>129129888He chooses to give up. He voluntarily takes off the mask that is meant to be his real face and true identity in order to tell Jon to kill him. That is highly symbolic given how Rorschach has spent years thinking his vigilante persona is the real him and Walter doesn't exist anymore. Rorschach would fight and refuse to stand there waiting for death. He wouldn't tell someone to kill him. A principled man doesn't give a shit if something means certain death because he will die for what he believes in. Rorschach peel of hid machismo and as a feeble pathetic, crying Kovacs just allows himself to be killed. In fact he urges it. In the face of Armageddon he compromises by choosing to take himself off the bboard because it's actually about how he can't handle a morally gray situation, or accept Veidt'd plan, which is similar to nuking Japan in order to save more lives, a logic which he eagerly endorses in the comic. He is a walking hypocritical contradiction you Rorschach fanboys choose to ignore in order to worship him as badass.

>>129129961>he chooses to give upHe forced Manhattan to choose between letting him go or killing him Unless you’re a retard who thinks he should punch Manhattan as if that makes sense, he did all he couldEspecially when he knew he already sent his journal that said VEIDT was the one behind everything to a newspaper

>>129129986>>Unless you’re a retard who thinks he should punch Manhattan as if that makes sensebeing extremely consistent doesn't always mean being logical

>>129129986>He forced Manhattan to choose between letting him go or killing himWhile standing there waiting. He could have just kept walking. He could have lunged at Jon. He could have argued how the truth has to come out no matter what because truth is vital. Instead he takes off his face, and basically demands Jon to kill him.>Unless you’re a retard who thinks he should punch Manhattan as if that makes senseOh, suddenly we're meant to pretend Rorschach is a rational actor? If he was a man of principles like you keep asserting he wouldn't care about the power imbalance, he would either attack Manhattan or he would keep walking and get shot in the back. He wouldn't look like a wounded animal waiting for a kill shot. He is a guy who jumps through a window and keeps fighting even when the cops clearly had him cornered and he had no chance of escape.>Especially when he knew he already sent his journal that said VEIDT was the one behind everything to a newspaperThen he wouldn't have had to make a big deal about not going along and not compromising, he could have just waited for the diary to expose everything. The diary doesn't even prove anything tangible since it's a collection of rambling ravings and conspiracy theories. It's left entirely up to chance if it does anything. Hell, what if the fucking squid had destroyed it? He doesn't know that. What if the mailman doesn't deliver it or it goes missing? It's a dumb plan and doesn't prove anything about hid principles.

>>129129948good post :/

>>129129948based and brainy

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>>129130112Thanks, i try to put some effort on my ramblings online. I feel better about myself. I'm just participating really.

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See... Rorschach does work around a simple idea: live by your strength,. not your flaws. He tried to be an ubermensch, tried turning his flaws into strength... but wasn't able to do it. Courage is known to be the virtue more distant from morality. Rorschach was courageous, he was ok with facing death if that meant he was comfortable with the man he was. That doesn't mean he was a great man, nor it means he was right.Dr Manhattan was right? Was he lying by saying " i can't choose, I'm already there." Rorschach never needed his powers to act like he was sure about his actions. Conclusions are useful, ozymandias found his own solution, smartest man in the world couldn't let a comedian alive.Anyone can be a hero to someone, just gotta lie enough or suffer enough.

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Did something Watchtmen-related happen recently? I've noticed a surge in threads where retards retard about Moore and Watchmen.

>>129130334Alan Moore got kriptoniam covid

>>129130351His next work is V for Vaccine

>ITT: People Don't Get a 40+ Years Old Comicbook

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>>129129948>Now he's unbeatable, the bat themed ninja is capable of winning anything anytime against anyone.I hate the inconsistency. In one team book, he takes down the entire Justice League! In his own, he gets his shit pushed in by a 'krazy' clown and a burn victim who is half man, half attorney.

>>129129961Alan, you should really go back to bed.