What is the point of Cassandra Cain? Is she a diversity hire or something? Genuine question

>>129116365also to add on whats annoying as fuck is her design is godtier when done right.she can be a waifu character too.just stop throwing her into gotham give her a solo run and let her do her own thing.maybe make her interact with the league of shadows and have ras al ghul be one of her main antagonists instead of whatever the fck she is doing now.let her hang and interact with other characters like huntress the question and chesire/sportsmaster.

>>129116390im not a fcking tranny i just like her design and backstory as its actually well written.she isn’t like that shitty asian harley quinn and actually has a tangible story behind her its just dc is not willing to take risk and have her so her own thing have her own setting villains and adventures.

>>129116275Her purpose: reinvigorate the Batgirl franchise after previous DC editorial told writers to “cripple the bitch (Babs)”

>>129116413She has at least 3 ongoing where she is the main character.

>>129116275>What is the point of Cassandra Cain?offer coom variety in the batfamily.

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Conceptually, Cass is basically in the same realm as the 90's Doctor Fate. Basically taking an idea 90's DC considered dated and reworking it so its more appealing for the era. But unlike a lot of those, Cass was written decently, at least.But Batgirl as a concept always has more appeal as a sexy girl showing off her face and hair with a spunky attitude. Cass is something that best belongs to the comics.

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>>129116712>Conceptually, Cass is basically in the same realm as the 90's Doctor Fate. Basically taking an idea 90's DC considered dated and reworking it so its more appealing for the eraI think there's a distinction to be made. DC's legacy heroes in the 90s were for the most part, worked into the life of the previous gen (Starman, Connor Hawke, Cassandra, Impulse), while too-edgy-4-u characters tried to ape Image and failed spectacularly.

>>129116275To filter noobs, like you OP.

>>129116275She's cool and has a fantastic backstory,also this is a cass thread now.

>>129116352I dont know, i agree that she's great, but she's always been very much rooted in the family. Her backstory is even a twist on bruce and Barbara's. She has a paternal and maternal dynamic with them and when the book tried to remove that it went downhill.

>>129116345>It's kinda crazy how they blame racism for her not appearing in every Batman medium.Racism wasn't to blame it was Dan Didio>>129116352>she was good when she was a solo character who did her own thing and worked with the bat family occasionally but dc relegated to being a bat family plotdevice/tool so she stopped having any agency or value.wtf are you talking about?

>>129118013Its weird because if anything the issue is that DC made her connection to Bruce less prominent and kinda removed her connection to Barbara. As well as severly undercutting her connections to Tim and Steph.

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>>129116326Well this is more an homage to his Stephgirl cover than anything.>>129116712I dont know, Cass was able to capitalize off the bat stuff far more than Barbara ever did and did have the longest run which only got stopped due to editorial, so i'd say the twist on batgirl she brought to the table worked quite well.

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>>129118045that's just what the nu52 did to most characters.

>>129116712>But Batgirl as a concept always has more appeal as a sexy girl showing off her face and hair with a spunky attitudeThe Batgirl concept was that she was a girl batperson.

>>129118158>Cass was able to capitalize off the bat stuff far more than Barbara ever didI can go out and find Babs on Batgirl merch everywhere to this day. Babs gets such a leg up from being Batgirl she could never appear as Batgirl again in the comics and still get merch and adaptations

>>129116292>>129116297/thread

>>129118220I mean merch viability is different from the actual comics, those are very different arguments. And if we're going by merch, then sure you're right. Altough again you need to consider that the time Cass was aimed to appear in a main adaptation it was cancelled so...>>129118174Oh for sure, its not unique at all. Just saying that the other user's argument was weird.

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>>129116694Based Fred Benes art.

>>129118220> Batgirl merch and Babs pushswung overdrive in 2011> 2011Gee, I wonder what happened in that would start this wave of Babs? Hmm...To be fair we did get some Cass merch from 2000 to 2011. Figures, statues, towels, and other things. Just that once 2011 DC put it all on Babs again and haven't looked back much since.

>>129116694Booba.

>>129118554There were 3 action figures, a statue and a minimate right? Oh and the two imagintext toys. Cant think of anything else Cass got merch wise.Weird she didnt get anything as Orphan given how DC is using that identitiy a bunch.

>>129118554>startAnon I collect a lot of merch, there was a ton of Babsgirl stuff available 2000-1010 as well, and not just DCAU/The Batman stuff, but classic comic Batgirl merchandise.

>>129116275She's the "teh rei" of DC

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>>129116275I love Cassandra!

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>>129118833How are you always here dronedude?

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>>129116275IIRC it went like this.>1997>DC wants to reintroduce (a) Batgirl character into the Batman books cuz Muh Movie Synergy>Denny O'Neil resists the idea because he doesn't like Batgirl>movie is a critical stinker anyway so the process is delayed>1999>DC wants a Batman status quo shakeup and by the way they still want a Batgirl and Harlet Quinn is like really popular we should bring her from the cartoons bro>O'Neil relents, uses No Man's Land to change status quo, introduce Harley and new Batgirl>but no Barbara back since they don't want to backpedal on Oracle>so this new Batgirl is a super duper martial artist so she doesn't look so much like child endangerment Bruce started, and maybe because Denny still has that martial arts kick from his Richard Dragon days>there, Cassandra Cain

>>129116345The real reason is that she looks too different from Barbara. With all the robins you can sell "Robin" merch Because they all look the same. With the batgirls designs differing from each other is a problem, Now you have to sell Cass merch,babs merch, etcs

>>129118933All Batgirls should dye their hair red or wear a wig like the 66' show to keep the illusion of it being one girl.

>>129118933Petty much. Despiste that Cass does have some, considering her lack of media appearances.

>>129118933>With all the robins you can sell "Robin" merch Because they all look the same.Pretty sure most Robin merch specifies which one your buying anyways.

>>129119164Not really. Most just say Robin. And some use one's costume (usually Tim or damian) but go with another (usually dick).

>>129119203Most robin toys are just Dick's design but with pants.

>>129119226Eh not really. I mostly see the OYL or Damian s now a days.I have seen merch of all of them honestly.

Oh also new comm i hadnt shared here.>>129118877Well from what i can see it was less that Denny had any particular toughts on Batgirl and more that he liked Oracle. It was Wein who was originally against Babsgirl, and Puckett who suggested a brand new Batgirl. The 97 thing coincides with Dini and Ross's pitch to bring Barbara back, which was rejected more due to backpedaling on Oracle than anything.

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>>129119226Source?

>>129119911Based Horny Cass.

Also the farmgirl Cass comm is done. Pretty happy with it.

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>>129116292>>129116299This is why I think DC should've made her the new BatmanIt would be 00s Cassfans from Scans Daily/tumblr vs 10s/20s comics outrage youtubers

>>129118691There was still a pool of Cass stuff as well. It wasn't until 2011 that DC dried up the well on Cass. Then again, Cass did get merch from 2000-2011. The other Batgirl of 2009-2011 got a much rawer deal.

>>129120771>The other Batgirl of 2009-2011 got a much rawer deal.Yeah once the New 52 happened Didio practically banned usage of her for a long whileBryan Q Miller was going to make her Batgirl for Smallville and then told to change it

>>129120771Steph got one toy and that was it, right? She got one or two things as Spoiler tho.>>129120790Shame because its pretty obiously steph.

>>1291208911 Batgirl toy and that was it. A pity cause they could've done a lot more with those Artgerm covers.

>>129120951And 2 Spoiler ones, unless im wrong right?Honestly not much of a merch guy, i feel that if i was it'd be a bit too much of a money sink.

>>129120602I want to milk that bat.

>>129118833Fuck off dronespammer

>>129120951>A pity cause they could've done a lot more with those Artgerm covers.I would've killed for an Artgerm Steph statue, this image is iconic. Funny they couldn't even homage it without turning it into Babs for DCeased.

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>>129121122I do feel that happens due to how similar Stephgirl looks to Barbara, but ive said that before.

>>129119911O'Neil loathed Babsgirl and any relic from the silver age. Back in the bronze age, he brought Batwoman out of retirement just to have Ra's al Ghul's assassins unceremoniously kill her off, he was that mad about it. In the 90s the only Babsgirl stories he approved were the ones by Puckett where the message of each one was "being Batgirl is serious and Babs really shouldn't do it."

>>129121252I mean, before then she had already been used less. I wouldnt put that on O'neil. And ive never heard him say anything about her in particular at least as ahcaracter.And he greenlit Batgirl Year one dude.

>>129121314Batgirl Year One was post-O'Neil, that was the Idleson era. It retconned the Puckett stories, even though Dixon co-wrote it, O'Neil never would have approved that book.

>>129116352What's with you Batfamily fags who think all your color-coded coattail riders are good enough to stand on their own?

>>129121367Fair enough. Altough not all the Barbara stories from O'neil where written by Puckett.

>>129121383Dick, Babs, and Tim were

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>>129121412Cass had her own book too, as did Damian.Well the two azraels did too, but i think less people argue for them.

>>129121427there's more to standing on your own than just having a book. All three of those were big time players solo, in team books, and in general DC mythos. Much more so than most other bat characters

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>>129121482I think the other user was reffering to having their own book.But that is fair, those 3 did in fact have apretty big role in DC stuff.I do think that in general most Batman spin off characters have decent legs in terms of holding their own stuff.

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>>129121482>there's more to standing on your own than just having a book.But it helps!

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>>129116275to be badassand she is badassi don't care what you think about that

>>129121833BOP was good. Sadness DC doesnt seem intrest in ever revisiting it.>>129121941Id say there's more to her than being badass.

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>>129121412This is what they took from you.

>>129121987>Id say there's more to her than being badass.well yeah, but

I like goth Cass.

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>>129116275Wounded azn woobie for nerds to imagine healing with their dickX23 is a near identical character

>>129122035Hey her being badass is cool, ive just always tought that her backstory was the most intresting part.>>129122068Oh hey one of mineI do too, might commission more of her. Altough i will defintely commission more of farmgirl cass before.

>>129116365>shes a good character with good design and backstoryha.

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>>129122068Same.

>>129121729>I'm hungry>my feet hurt>these false inserts are chafing my nipples>the music is too loud >I wish I were in the alley punching someone retarded>>129122068>Cass, what are you wearing?>I'm goth now, you wouldn't understand. Too normie.>You're talking mad shit for a woman wearing my fishnets, bralette, choker, shorts, chain wallet, and boots. You can keep the underwear when you're done.

>>129122656Based, except for the insert comment :p.And look Cass had to find something for her date. If dinah can beat her she'd give it back.

>>129122656I'd love if mutual closet raiding became a thing. Though I'll settle for Babs' closet being the most picked over. Seems to be a tradition.

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>>129122828No one raids Cass's closet because its basically just shirts, the party outfit, the bikini babs gave her and the dress Bruce gifted her

>>129116275She was good in No Man's Land and her own ongoing series. She's had a hard time since they screwed up her character One Year Later.

>>129120744>Batman is defeated by a bookIt would certainly make Batman stories more interesting.

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>>129123230I mean, everyone is always upset by Oracle being useless or redundant. Cass as Batman would make Oracle absolutely vital.

Finally, I've been waiting for a batgirl thread just so I could make this jokeWhen you walk awayyou won't hear me sayPlease oh babydon't go

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>>129123411Oh new Webtoon issue? Not been keeping up.

>>129123411boooooooooooooo

>>129123452Read it, nice to see Steph's a universtiy student. And the Orphan costume with a half mask looks suprisngly good.Also good story.

>>129123411Someone storytime this I'm not downloading that app.

>>129123557Cant take screenshots of it, and it wouldnt be in english anyways. :/

She's the closest thing we have to Bat-Shiva.

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>>129116694

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>>129123833>FredVery nice.

>>129123411Context?

>>129116275the comics didn't have a Batgirl for nearly 20 years, so they made a new one

>>129116275>the pointpiss off #Didiot

>>129123833Yo, you're back with edits.

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>>129123833Hot.

>>129122068do you have any other examples from the artist?Doing color work on art styles with minimal shading is a pain, especially with the goth aesthetic since so much of the color is different shades of dark grey.I tried adding my own shading but my style looks retarded with this art style>>129120602I always liked silent Cass better, she was more fun when she had to express herself with gestures and body language.

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>>129116275hey comrade be sure to tell cousin in Army that Ukraine offer 5 million rubles to soldier who surrenders voluntarily

>>129123411And of course a couple hours after I make this joke the new chapter comes out with them making upRuining all my fun over here!

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>>129125781>And of course a couple hours after I make this joke the new chapter comes out with them making upI'm still going to be cutting onions when I see it for myself.

>>129125574Sketch posts here a ton, and ive posted a lot of his art, i can share the stuff he's done for me if you want!I personally prefer a Cass that talks a bit, just not uber talkative.>>129125781It was fun, even if Babs called her a sister isnt super ideal. But nice that they mentioned Cass's scars!

>>129116275>What is the point of Cassandra Cain?To make you seethe.

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>>129125574Hey user if you ever need any line art for practice feel free to let me know! I can give you the fullsize/psd files if you like.

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>>129126038Ohhey sketch, nice that you posted the pre-flashpoint pic! Its nice to see other posting cass/kon :D

>>129125961>But nice that they mentioned Cass's scars!Which is kinda funny since the conversation we had in these threads about whether or not cass's scars are canon anymore was brought about because of the panels in wayne family adventures with cass in her ballet outfit with 0 scars.

>>129125781So quick summary?

>>129126086Well the book isnt really canon itself, so intresting it even started it. Altough it is the first time they've been mentioned since the outsiders page.>>129126089Babs shows her she doesnt just hurt people by having her look at herself in the mirror (its negative before babs's words), and the three end up doing the movie maratahon at steph's house.

>>129126086the vast majority of them should technically be gone since she did get lazarus pitted but I'm not sure how all this stuff fits together anymore or how much writers really care about details

>>129116694CringeBruce is the the batcoom you need

The best of Cassandra Cain was the story of her figuring out what she wants to be, and desperately trying to move on from her childhood spent as an assassin in training.

>>129126223That's most of her story.>>129126161Well the first time they were drawn it was after the lazarus pit, then again the ending of the Gabyrch run has mostly been ignored (luckily for me).

>>129126249Yeah, because almost every other time she gets used it's just "fights good, can't communicate."

>>129126292I mean most of her solo stuff sourrounds the assasin thing. Its mostly when she has a role in a nother story she falls into that role. Altough its not always the case.

>>129126249that sounds more like "writers forgetting the details" kinda thing unless you think she gained a lifetime worth of scars in like a year and a half in universe. The gabyrch run happened and the apology series from the fallout of it also happened with some lingering effects

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>>129116275people wanted a Batgirl who kicked ass again because DC won't let Barbara out of that fucking chair. I guess we could have done worse.

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>>129126522

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>>129126522oracle was cool you dickhead. Don't get the appeal of babsgirl unless you have a redhead fetish though

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OP here, i'm not mad about cass. i just wanted to know what was the point of her since i just found out her existence recently. Thanks to the anons who actually answered my question.

>>129126380I think it's more that the Lazarus pit effects are highly inconsistent. And she could have gotten the scars for sure.And the apology series was more for the OYL fallout.

>>129126223Even better was when she basically earned Shiva's respect and got to be left alone for a bit, and actually got to start defining her own life.This, of course, got thrown out the window.

>>129116275She is a pretty great character, but nowadays she seems to have been coopted by talentless feminists who fail to see she is just the action type Batman but with boobs. So she is barely allowed to be badass anymore.

>>129126583Good thread still OP!

>>129126675Babs has a bunch of degrees and shit in addition to being trained by batman. Her being exceptional at computers, coding, databases, etc. isn't any worse than Bruce being great at literally every discipline on earth, except magic

>>129126675>Mary SueShe still gets her ass kicked a lot, super genius or not. Babs is not a Mary Sue. She makes mistakes, not everyone likes her, and she's far from perfect. But who is?

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>>129126683Thanks!

>>129118158That Cass looks genuinely adorable and now I want a Batfamily cartoon with chibi transitions

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>>129123833everyone loves Supercock

>>129126769Its always good to have a cass thread.>>129126815That cass was so off.>>129126797Its a one off sadly. But who knows in the future

>tfw we will never get Oracle in a spider mech chair strapping Cass to an operating table and forcing her to learn how to read

>>129126797

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I want Cass to be badass again, not some uguu shell of a character.

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>>129125961>Sketch posts here a ton, and ive posted a lot of his art, i can share the stuff he's done for me if you want!I was more interested in his shading and color style so I could color the piece properly.Mostly finished it... well, other than the shading and background but I don't have references for those. >>129126038where do you usually post full size files? I mostly work with stuff I get off 4chan and only ever post stuff on rule34 if I think a piece I did came out looking like something worth saving.

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>>129116275Ninja girlfriends were all the rage at the time

>>129127153Cool colors.

>>129127153Ah gotcha.

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>>129118833I hate drones because they are a massive waste of a really cool mask design Like seriously, Cass would look awesome in a combo design with that mask and a suit similar to the Batman Beyond suit

>>129127620I saw once a hypotethical INjustice design use that mask. Ill see if i can find it.

>>129118833Based Dronebro.

>>129127153Mostly post my stuff on twittermobile.twitter.com/sketchatrondrawAlso do some deliveries in the drawthread

>>129127602I recognize that butt.

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>>129127652Sounds cool! Thanks dude. Honestly I’ve always really liked full face masks, just think they look cool

>>129127740I don't think sketch used that as a reference, but id have to ask him. It could be i suppose.>>129127759Same, i think that's why i like Cass's look so much already.

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>>129127810Yeah. I also like full masks because they’re practical as sometimes armor and because they fix the paradox of why superheroes are never recognized The only reason why I prefer the faceless Cass mask is because it feels truly intimidating like staring a demon in the face. They say eyes are a window to the soul, by completely covering those you remove much of their ability to read your emotions

>>129116275You are genuinely asking if Cassandra Cain was hired to be in Batman comics? Can you even read words?

>>129127918Same.I am more mixed on the full no-features mask, but i think for a "realistic" setting like a movie or game it'd work pretty well.>>129127943I think OP meant in universe, and was being geniune with the thread clearing stuff up.

>>129127975>"realistic" setting like a movie or game it'd work pretty well.Agreed. Personally my favorite kind of setting is a “realistic” setting mixed with comic zaniness that doesn’t take itself too seriously but also doesn’t insult the source material. Like a hybrid between the Dark Knight films and Batman the Brave and the Bold. It’s rare, but doable and in my opinion the perfect comic movie/tv setting

>>129116275Is Cass even half white anymore?

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>>129128130I was reffering more something ala the arkham games, but an adaptation like that could work.Altough i personally prefer ones that try to emulate the visuals of the comics as much as possible, with the tone being reflective of the adapted work.>>129128179It was mentioned in the asian celebration issue last year, so i think so.

Wasn't there one that was a marine or some shit? I can't keep up with them.

>>129128207>Altough i personally prefer ones that try to emulate the visuals of the comics as much as possible, with the tone being reflective of the adapted work.That’s a fair assessment

>>129128249Kate was ex-militaray and Bette is currently there.>>129128254I'd kill for Cass's look to be translated directly. Altough without the visible mouth.

>>129128274Kate was kicked out of West Point. She doesn't count.

>>129128296Well close enough

>>129128347She literally never commissioned. She's no more a soldier than a guy who washed out of boot camp.

>>129128179It depends. In the prior universe, David Cain was white, however, when reintroduced in the New 52 David Cain was Asian.

>>129128420Again, its pretty close. At least i assume that's what the user meant.

Does Cass deserve hugs and cuddles?

>>129128737She deserves all the hugs and cuddles.

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>>129128737Yes.

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>>129128737She very much does deserve that.

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>>129125604I don't think Ukraine can afford to bribe that many soldiers, Anontoly.

>>129116275>What is the point of Cassandra Cain?To be my trophy wife

>>129129058God damn it Slade, first Terra, then Cass, then Power Girl v. 2, now you're on Cass again, when does it END Slade?YOU'RE TOO OLD AND UNPLEASANT TO BE A DAMN HAREM PROTAGONIST!

>>129128502It's pretty obvious who he meant, it's just a clarification that Kate isn't actually military.

Well that'd be it for me today, hopefully the thread will be up tommorow.>>129129140Yeah i gotcha.

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>>129128130The Dark Knight film are theatrical as fuck, they just have a visual aesthetic that is grounded in realism.

>>129128179Not anymore.

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>>129116275What's the point of any female character existing in cape comics? Pro-tip: They are made for boys, not for diversity or girls.

>>129118204Batgirl was originally Girl Robin, actually.

>>129118877also Asian because O'Neil(or was it Puckett?) was "why not? Some skin-color in the bat-family is not going to hurt"higher-ups were much less convinced though.

>>129122656>>You can keep the underwear when you're done.> Underwear?

>>129128756my favorite Cass ship because she gets MAXIMUM cuddles.

>>129129115Power Girl v2 got Sladed?