Team Fortress dev team finally announces changes before they go live

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MY FUCKING SANDMAN!
MY FUCKING RUNNING GLOVES AND EVICTION NOTICE!
MY FUCKING RESCUE RANGER!

They already lost their audience to Tumblrwatch.
Valve needs to stop pretending they care about making videogames and focus on making their sales not complete dogshit

don't even bring that shit up.

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>Everyone but the (((Sniper))) and Demoman get shit on in this (((Balance))) Patch

The Sniper should not get fucking AFTERBURN IMMUNITY.
Holy fucking shit.
So, now, a Sniper can survive long enough at close range against a Pyro to crit him his LOLHIGHCRITRATE melee weapons.

The Razorback regenerating is even more bullshit, only the shittiest of spies can't kill a Sniper using one.

The Ambassador being nerfed is ALSO bullshit, if a Spy can cloak and position himself to snipe a sniper, he deserves that fucking kill.

Jesus christ. Marked for Death was enough. Health drain means a Medic has to focus even more of their attention on a Heavy.
Health drain also means, a weaker target.

You know, the Heavy is the most fragile class in the fucking game without support. By making it even more fragile and even less accurate, more people will just play Soldier or Demoman.

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A shame the game is shit now so only f2pfags and ribbitors play it.

That's the point.
Every bitchass motherfucker in the 6s community ought to be lit on fire

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*game

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This redtext shit is fucking retarded. It doesn't have any connotation.

If you don't like it, goto cuckchan.

Most of these changes seem to be explicitly related to competitive whining (Atomizer brings up that Soldiers and Demos are having a hard time killing triple-jumping Scouts, Razorback and Danger Shield descriptions specifically bring up comp sniper-wars being unbalanced) so this is probably the biggest chance we will ever get for Valve to finally fucking realize that COMPETITIVE TF2 IS NOT WHAT 98% OF ITS FUCKING PLAYERS ARE INTERESTED IN AND THE FUCKING 6's META DOESN'T APPLY TO THE REST OF THE GAME, AND THEY SHOULD QUIT CATERING TO SOLDIERS WHO WANT TO BE ABLE TO ROAM WITH IMPUNITY. And that's beside the fact that comp-leagues aren't going to magically unban a bunch of weapons just because Valve tweaked them, no, most weapons are still banned. These are people who do shit as pithy as banning the Fists of Steel because comp soldiers declared it a "waste of time" to actually take care of a Heavy in a 1-on-1 skirmish the proper way and so instead ban the thing that makes their rockets ineffective.

The shield changes are fucking stupid, Darwin's Danger Shield especially so. For God's sake, that thing would make the Sniper able to deal with fire damage better than the Pyro himself, and for what tradeoff? No SMG? That is a flat-out upgrade in most scenarios given you're generally dead if an enemy is in SMG range as a Sniper. And the weapon stats available right now are +25 HP and bullet resistance, the only actual difference it makes is you actually have to charge a shot a little to be able to take out an enemy Sniper instead of just instantly gravitating your cursor over his head and winning. For all of that you could whip out your SMG and fire off one bullet and that's the Sniper down, if he's got tunnel-vision at the moment and isn't thinking to fucking move after being reduced to 1 HP.

The Heavy actually got buffed from where he was before, his accuracy/damage penalty just for revving up/the first five seconds of firing was heavily mitigated. GRU is… sorta-kinda' a return to how it was on its launch (draining of max-health rather than just draining of health), but the Eviction Notice is their attempt to keep the weapon as a shittier version of GRU.

lmoa

It's pink you blind nigger, and it's also a meme stolen from spic chans because turns out Codemonkey is a literal brown monkey

Quiet, you. Let me dream.

It felt like a lot of these changes were just to appease whiners. Especially with how they ignored Demoman and barely touched Soldier. It's a good thing I got a heads up so I know not to touch the game.

I'm keeping a very tentative eye on it because these were stated to be only some of the changes they had lined up and were gauging responses and getting feedback. I imagine they're going to be getting a huge amount of "you're a dumbass" emails along with emails asking about shit like why the Caber or the Righteous Bison were unnecessarily nerfed sheerly to appease a minority that didn't actually use or go up against the weapons in the first place.

I actually kind of like it.

Buddy, the weapon's gonna be shit now. Even if that first hurdle's removed, there's still the fucking 50% cloak drain rate. If I did my math right, that increased drain will lower all of the cloaking times by 1/3 if we put it into an equation like this: 10 seconds is the default invis watch cloak time, so without the new YER, the drain would be 1/sec. But, if we equip the YER, then the extra 50% drain would bump it up to 1.5/sec, making the effective time now 6.66 seconds, which really, is a big hit seeing as you now have to watch your cloak meter even more now, and since disguising from no disguise will need all of your cloak meter, you're basically going to be pressed for ammo boxes.

These changes make the YER worse than it already is and I think will deter more players from using it. Not being able to disguise at first can be pretty hard to overcome if the enemy team has classes and loadouts that counter the YER (i.e Razorback of all things, sentries, pyros), but being able to cloak less is REALLY bad. Also, disguises are worth shit nowadays since everyone with half a brain checks for spies no matter what. It's more worth it to stay invisible and not push what little credibility your disguise has.

t. A player who has forgotten how to use any other knife than the YER

You know, the thing with YER is that it should be used in tandem with L'Etranger, which increases cloak time by 40% and adds 15% cloak on hit.

At least Orkz, Guard and Tyranids got buffed

Now I see a reason to stay on DR servers.

this is one of the things that pisses me off the most, these nerfs are basically "no fun allowed" changes
going on 2fort with a kamikazi demo loudout was fun as hell just to harass snipers, because they never looked away from the enemy side while you landed on their heads and hit them with the caber, to the point they called a medic to sit there and pocket them
but now, no fuck you, caber wont kill a sniper or fucking anyone on one hit
what's that? it was intentional for the bison beam to go through enemies? well we removed that too because fuck you and fuck nice things
babyface blaster scouts too fast to hit on the ground? okay sure let's make it so every time they get hit they lose all of their speed buildup in spite of the fact that jumping can't be done without reducing speed, so it's completely useless against every class
what's that? pajeet shat on the street in india? okay let's remove crouching entirely to celebrate

The times they are changing.

Would you fug a sentry?

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I'd smash her with my wrench if you know what I mean

Tourneyfags/competitive fags kill literally every single thing they touch.

Is there a Team Fortress 1?

Is there worse bait?

Yes, the original was a a Quakeworld mod, but was made again for Half-Life.

Any recorded media for the game prior to a balancing patch has now been made useless. Videos and guides released when the game just came out are made even more useless.

TF2 was always shit

Cry me a fucking river.

Alternate weapons were a mistake.

Oh boy.

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valve should aim for pub play the soda popper jumping 20 times in the air was stupid, but fucking fun to play with and to fight against, now it's jsut a niche same with panic, before unique now just anuddah version of the shotcunt

TF2 was never balanced. See

He's not wrong. Arguably all of the classes have strayed from the main play-style that they were initially designed for. It became much more obvious with with the scout update, but you can't deny that even the prior class updates changed them somewhat more than they should have been. Huntsman sniper and demoknight are the most notable changes.

Are you goddamn retarded? I bet you're gonna spout retarded shit after this such as
I'll bet that if TF2 had kept Vanilla all these years, it would likely had stagnated

Goddamnit (You) i was in the middle of writing this post and then you came along.
Yeah good luck hitting shit with that, it's harder than it sounds, Sniper Rifle everyday
It's like trading a fucking gun that spits out explosive for an overglorified knife why would you choose that? getting a melee revenge that's why
What i'm trying to say is, i don't really mind that they strayed from the main playstyle since the original playstyle they intended is still the best way to fucking play them, those sidegrades are just that, sidegrades, not to replace the meta of playing a certain class since (Thank god for this) Valve has already cemented that their vision of main playstyle is the most effective way to play as that certain class.

I'm not saying that the alternative styles are not shit, just that they stray from the main idea of the class and I cannot understand why they were included. You are correct though, most of them are side-grades if not worse than the main load-out, with a few exceptions that are now side-grades. I have not played since a little while F2P and trading got implemented, so I'm not too up on most of the balance changes and additional items that may have been added since then.

If you are using the Huntsman as a medium-short range weapon you probably won't have a problem landing the projectile. The problem is landing a kill shot.

Holy shit what the fuck are they doing, nearly all classes will get shat on.

Overwatch is better
TF2 is only lucrative for poorfags and homos at this point.

When you compare it to TF2, sure.

Well, at least he never went transgender.

What else would I compare it to? Paladins? That turd is even worse than TF2.

I'm sure there's something else you can compare it to that isn't TF2. The only thing I like about Overwatch is D.va because I get a massive 8 inch boner when I jerk off to her, but because I know she's Korean I have a hard time maintaining that erection so now I need to take Cialis or something so I can finish what I start.

Fuck Overwatch.

if there was a character closer to HWG in Overwatch I'd like it a lot more
projectile chaingun bullets aren't the same as having a minigun that tears through everything

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Here's your (You), the only thing you got right is the waifus

Aye, this man know what he's talking about. The problem with the Huntsman is that it's Rate of Fire is wayy lacking compared to the Sniper Rifle but makes up for its very fast charging speed. But again, it's hitbox is very generous especially compared to Scout's Cleaver, still it's very good for taking out sentries.

D.Va's only redeeming feature is her design anyway

I just downloaded this game, am about to play for the first time ever

What am I in for Holla Forums?

A tumor, probably

a shit and dying game

BLOAT
LOAT
OAT
AT
T

AND

H A T S

lots of dying

It seriously feel like everybody is cheating when you first star playing tf2, also fuck off no underage allowed on this taiwanease forum

A lot of shit, as you've got to configure the shit out of it before you even play, keybinds, better graphics options, Launch menu options, and a HUD to use to free up all the space on your fucking GUI.

steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=483257164 Use this.

Yes he is wrong, Vanilla TF2 is the reason those "unbalanced items" came to be, when will you learn this shit?
Soldier, Demo and Scout can easily dominate the game with their mobility and firepower to the point that picking Heavy is fucking retarded, any Soldier with an obstacle to peek&shoot will fuck you up.
This is why GRU was made for Heavy, specifically to address his low speed. It's not meant for actual combat, only so he doesn't lag behind.

Self-Healing sounds like shit until you start talking with professional teams that have mandatory Medic players who don't even like the role but are forced into it because not bringing a Medic is just asking to lose the game, and if it's that bad for professional teams, imagine trying to get someone in regular pub games to pick Medic. Self Healing items exist solely so your team doesn't depend on someone playing like a passive bitch.
I started maining Medic specifically because nobody else would play it, I love the class but I damn well like to play something else every now and then and having self healing items means I'm not entirely fucked because nobody else would do the same courtesy.

It's the same shit for pretty much everything else, every single item\weapon you fags complain about was created solely to "fix" some problem with the specialist classes so you don't feel like you're gimping yourself by picking them instead of Soldier\Demo.
They never work because that's not where the issue lies but Valve will never nerf Soldier\Demo like they should so they become actual Generalists instead of "We do everything that matters better than everyone else" and everyone else will keep bitching about the weapons and the specialist classes because it's easier to complain about them.

There's a reason you got a shiload of games like Dirty Bomb, Paladins, Overwatch, Battleborn (LMAO) and Lawbreakers coming soon or even a remake of Tribes coming up, because TF2 has fucking stagnated under a specific meta that meets heavy resistance to any attempt at breaking it.

Dead Farley pictures plus fucking Mcfatty using puppetering his corpse.

Yeah, specially her skin based on the Mary Sue logo.

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It actually got shut down.

No the servers are still live, they just stopped development.

Who's paying for them?

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2K, they're still banking on tards purching cosmetics\character packs and not realizing it's a dead fucking game with no future balance and content to ever be had.
Maybe they're doing it in the off chance that enough cash can still be drained from the malformed fetus of a game but I can't see it lasting another year in this state. Maybe 2 at most.

Fuck, forgot to turn off spoilers,

No, it's good you had them so I was spared that garbage.

There's an entire server filled with brazilians

"Most" being the keyword here. TF2 is the game where someone will cheat with no consequence, he just needs to make another Steam account. You can even have a "real account" where you keep all your cosmetics and cheat on throw away accounts with impunity.

Meanwhile Blizzard actually cracks down on cheaters to the point that many don't do it for fear of losing their skins and rank.
It's the one thing, maybe even the only thing, that cosmetics and rank does well for a community.

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Maybe if you just read my post, including my reply to the other user, i wouldn't had to fucking give you another (You)
C'mon nigger are you fucking retarded? Valve can't be bothered to fix the lag compensation let alone the fixing some class they would much rather ignore or hate. I also really hate you vanilla-fags for naively thinking that if TF2 would've been better if they stayed just that. Why?
BECAUSE DEMO, SCOUT AND SOLDIER COMPLETELY DOMINATES THE GAME WITH THEIR STOCK LOADOUT
This user here had already address this point very well i won't bother to write some shit about their obvious versatility and complete jack-of-trades
Then what? are you suggesting you're going to completely throw away years worth of design of the characters just because they're too fucking good for their own roles (read: all), just to fundementally change their whole shtick to make them more 'balanced'? Or would you rather just add sidegrades to some of the Specialist classes to close the gap between them? Goddamn you sound just like those comp-fags that completely contradicts what they want for the game and their ways of implementing 'changes'.
You seem to forget what medics are for, they're not just for goddamn healing. Medics are always the core of successful teams. Then guess what they're actually for you know-it-all chucklefuck

They really just need to turn the every weapon into a cosmetic and rebuild every class from scratch.

ah shit i meant it was that addressed the point very well, not you

Might as well make another fucking game already nigger, but as we all know that won't happen.

I did not play it when it launched and I appreciate the correction, thank you.

What the fuck is this shit? How could you be so terrible at balancing a game? They even butchered the fucking YER by completely killing cloak shenanigans, making DR + YER even shittier than it already was. Do they just like beating dead horses? Is it a metaphor for the state of the game?

The first wave of new weapons made the game it's ideal I felt. It was shortly before the Free2Play update that they should have stopped adding content and focused on game balance before making anything else new.

Is balancing TF even possible? Not a single version of the game was truly balanced: QWTF, TFC, TF2…

Just acept it, the game is will never be like before, the game have declined so much that now you can say its dead/tottally shit. The only saving grace of this game today is still being better than Overwatch.

Hell, Crowbat have just recently released a TF2 video showing how much have the game declined technically, not just in gameplay or balance.

*CrowCat

I think they're going to make it so the generalists still dominate, but the specialists (heavy, engineer, pyro, spy) have less niche roles.

Heavy is amazing at close combat, but he's so slow and big that he's easy to demolish and he can't really maneuver to kill you if you know what you're doing. He's only really good in pubs because people have flashbacks of some unusual-wearing heavy going 50:0 with 3 medics up his ass. Also mainly because people in pubs think they can't kill heavy, so instead of trying to kill him they run.

The other problem is that these classes are too defensive. Heavy can plant his feet out in the open, and there's no way you can kill him before he can kill you (unless you're a sniper). If you bomb him as soldier, he juggles you mid-air where your rockets do 50 damage per shot and kills you. As scout, if he sees you coming, no amount of dodging can help you avoid dying before you get to him unless you have cover.

This makes the game really slow and boring, so the best option would be to give heavy a role so he can do something other than be a mobile turret.

This faggot complained that weapons can no longer be moved with explosives, when that's the point, and that weapons no longer give ammo when picked up. Also, ammo boxes are more readable, consistent, and they can still be knocked around by explosions. Crowb's videos are always strawman bullshit.

Downgrading the game is never justified.

Hey, protip.
Most of the video would apply years ago.
Also ammoboxes are a welcome situation.
The character/weapon lighting, though, was indeed broken with the whatever was the update that added weapon skins.

The point is for weapon skins to be picked up. Literally the only people who complained about this feature being added are people who are upset that now ANYONE can have a golden frying pan if they kill the retarded faggot who bought one in the server.

Ammo boxes are more consistent, by far. Imagine the knife, and imagine the minigun. Which is easier to see? What if you needed to pick up ammo as an engineer to continue construction? Will you notice that knife stuck in the corner? Probably not.

I guess you have a point. I just don't like how this whole thing LOOKS (which is obviously subjective).

TF2 was trying to be somewhat realistic in the beginning despite being whacky. Boxes falling out of dead bodies isn't a very realistic thing, IMO. And the glowing weapons really fucking annoys me. Sure, you can disable the glow but then there won't be glow on the Intels and the Cart, which is more or less useful.

Damn the 360/PS3 version looks better than current year

Wew what a fucking scrub
wew
Other than that, it's an ok 'nitpicking' video

This here right here, but they should probably make the weapons moveable by explosions or some shit since it triggers my autism

It's mainly so people can pick them up without them being catapulted across the map. Though I truly wish they made it way easier to pick up, right now you have to stop and look at them. In CS:GO you just drop your weapon and automatically pick up the new one.

Oh also: not to mention that the lightwarp was removed because it was distracting. Hell, most players just disabled viewmodels outright because they were already distractingly huge (even with viewmodel_fov set high).

I only started turning viewmodels back on once they allowed minmode, and what a fucking difference that made, I love it. I can only hope they allow custom viewmodel animations again (they disabled it because there was a mod that just completely disabled them in competitive, which was not Valve's intention. A really stupid reason, and I hope they reconsider).

Not the best argument. Look at QUAKE III ARENA, most of the "serious" players disable literally everything. White walls with shadows, icons instead of 3D models for pick-ups and the enemy model is big and bright red. Does that mean that every game has to look like SUPERHOT to not "distract" people with its environments? I don't think so.

Keep dreaming. Valve hates modding in every form and shape now. Especially it's really upsetting in case of TF2, where most of the players who used mods used some kind of fixes for stuff that's been in the game since the day one (e.g. Demoman's grenade launcher having six slots but shooting only four grenades).

Valve cares about consistency with gameplay. Sometimes it's misguided (in the case of the competitive game mode). Yeah they fucking hate modding in CS:GO, but they still allow surfing and they haven't done a thing to prevent modding in TF2. You can still have any custom HUD you want, any custom hitsound, any custom spray. They just don't want you doing things that might give you an advantage like being able to see people through walls. There's an actually mod you can download on GameBanana that gives you wallhacks just by changing textures. It's not VAC bannable because it isn't a cheat, it just changes some files.

Should've focused on shitty balance changes, hats, performance hits, hats, retarded and pointless weapons, cosmetics, trading, taunts, hats, skins and hats.

No, they don't. They talked about how they wanted players to be able to see the killcam and think "oh, I could've prevented that" and then added sandman and cunstman.

You can have things like custom HUD or hitsound but this is so fucking basic in comparison to what's available on, for example, GAMEBANANA. And the sprays are almost dead too. Official Valve servers don't support sprays (only you can see your own spray) and so do many servers, justifying it with all the furry nazi porn sprays.

I wouldn't be so mad about any of this if Valve haven't killed the community servers by introducing the Quick Play button. If you wanted your server to appear in the quick play, you had to disable mods and all that kind of fun. If you disagree and want your server to be fun then good luck with that. Most of the admins just said "Fuck it." when one day their servers became empty.

Oh, and that exploit mod that lets you see through walls and other stuff… It's still working, if I recall correctly, despite Valve killing off all other mods trying to fight it.

Say what you want but Team Fortress 2 is the story about one big fucking downgrade disguised as an update.

Well said, no homo.

Yes, the mod is still working, but you can't use it on Valve servers because of sv_pure 1.

No, I actually mean that it bypasses sv_pure command.

Which mod are you talking about? The one that let a team see friendlies' silhouettes through walls?
That was really fun as a spy,.

This one, I think: gamebanana.com/gamefiles/3827

How does this not break the rules?

Not sure about 'sv_pure 2' (because it enforces the official content only) but it still might be able to bypass 'sv_pure 1' since it's just a server-side whitelist.

Valve getting BTFO!

Read the thread before posting, dude.

The fix for the problem is strictly changing 2 classes (Soldier and Demo) so they either lose their damage or their tankiness since it's clear they are never losing their mobility. Now try and convince anyone that Soldier and Demo should have only 150 HP, or that it should take 2 direct rockets or 3 indirect ones to kill classes even in close range.

Dispensers is already a non-answer since it depends on someone playing Engineer, refer to the problem with depending on Medics, please.
Healthpacks don't make it any better, they just further exacerbate the problem since they are located in fixed locations in the map that require you to move there.
This wouldn't be a big problem if the major shtick of the 3 most played classes wasn't their mobility.

Just consider that Heavy isn't used as often for serious games because he lags behind as fuck. Now consider playing without a Medic, essentially telling him that everytime he wants to heal, he'll have to walk back to the closest medkit and then back again to the fight EVERY SINGLE TIME. Consider the same for every single class as well and then remenber that there's something called Roaming Soldiers that will land behind your team and consume your kits so you can't use them.
This is why the Sandvich makes damn sense for the Heavy, so he doesn't spend 456 years out of the fight to fully heal before he's finnaly back in action without a Medic.

Welcome to fucking Team Fortress 2, where from the very base game Soldiers undermine the role of Scouts since they are faster in practice and deadlier and tankier, where Demos undermine the role of Engineers for area denial since they are far more versatile, deadly, tankier and with less setup time and both classes destroy the supposed front line combatant, Heavy, making him the dumbest choice ever.
Medic being replaced by Mad Milk or Sandvich doesn't even begin to be a problem compared to those.

The generalists are far too good to be considered generalists, they excel in too many areas and outperform everyone so well they aren't generalists at all, rather direct upgrades.

What they are doing with the specialists is indeed make them much less niche, which means making them generalists as well, something that will never work since they are still tied to their items so they'll never be as versatile or good in the areas they are trying to branch off too.
Sniper with the Huntsman was an attempt to make him more of a mid-range fighter, much like everyone else, where he will suck dick since several classes will outperform him at that range, for instance.

Wut? Heavy can't juggle anyone at all. And your rockets do the same damage regardless of how high you are, only the distance to target matters (except for sentries).

Heavies are also killed fairly easy by any class with burst damage like Demo, Soldier and Scout. Scout has the hardest of it since he needs cover to get near afterwhich it's about 3 meatshots that you can land before he kills you if you're good at dodging.
Meanwhile, Soldier and Demo can use literally any piece of cover to cutdown Heavy's DPS to about 1/3 if they just peek&shoot which gives them the advantage they need to land rockets into the slowest and biggest target of TF2.

I still maintain my idea that explosive damage for Soldier and Demo should be cut in half but the explosive radius doubled so they'd be shifted into "crowd control role", where they have the unique ability of damaging multiple people at the same time or cause some damage with relatively no aim required for pressure.
You want heavy damage, you'd have the Sniper for long range, the Heavy for medium range and the Scout for close range.
You want area denial, you'd have the Engy with long setup, the Demo with short setup and Soldier with no setup.
There, TF2 is fixed and every class is viable now, even with the current items.

trash players like you make the continued existence of competitive FPS games with high skill ceilings impossible. Good players are the minority, a peak of a bell curve, while your type of trash will always have the numbers advantage and flood forums and imageboards with garbage. Your own lack of skill drives you to provide an endless flow of awful feedback causing devs to eventually give in and ruin the game with incremental changes that only serve the purpose of making the game easier for the lower 95% of players while making it harder to succeed for the top 5%. Every time - every time - this is what happens. You are the Redditors of gaming. You and your shit opinions.

The anonymity of imageboards doesn't go well with competitive games because it allows those utterly inconsequential players in the 50%-20% percentile skill range to circumvent having to actually prove themselves, to actually have some skin in the game, and instead enables them to pursue their real motive of nerfing the entire game itself with their awful fucking ideas to make it easier for low skill players to win. It's ALWAYS about making life easier for the lower skill players. The phrase "lurk more" applies to gaming too - preferably for six months to two years of hard practice and competition. Your post is no different than a complete newfag trying to fit in, and you'll get away with it too as anonymity allows bad players to never be wrong and keep posting their bad opinions until the game is nerfed into the ground, you get bored of it, and move on to the next game you want to ruin. Faggot.

Incorrect. Bullets do enough damage that you can disable someone's momentum, even reverse it. Scouts are used as anti-air in competitive because even just 60 damage can throw a soldier off-course.

Also incorrect. Distance is calculated xyz, not just xz.

And yet with all the shit.changes it still stagnated. Your point?

Write all the incoherent rants you want, you're still missing the point. (and I think that's pasta)
I'm sure it's a lot of fun to play Soldier and Demo specificially for their high skill ceiling due to their unique mobility and there are plenty of games that use the same mechanic to increase it's depth in multiplayer like Quake or Painkiller.

But Team Fortress 2 is not a game entirely about those 2 classes, it's about 9 classes working together against the oposing team, so when you have a small section of the cast outperforming everyone else in several areas, that's all you're gonna see. The problem isn't strictly the classes themselves, it's how they overlap the role of other classes with little to no downside.

The 150 HP is obviously a joke, not only it wouldn't solve anything, it'd screw the rocketjumping of course. But Soldier being faster, deadlier AND tankier than Scout? That's just stupid.

From all matches I ever played TF2, regularly the team that won was the team that brought the best and most Soldiers to the table on attack or Demos on defense and I've personnaly felt that if I want to get shit done I'll be gimping myself by picking different classes.
They might be more fun and chalenging to play as but in the end they will always feel like sidegrades to those 2 classes: excelent for a specific niche, crap at everything else and won't really justify their place.

Why do you think most matches in Quake for instance devolve into RocketLauncher and Railgun competitions with the rest of guns being used in very specific niche situations only or when those 2 haven't been adquired yet?

By juggling, people often refer to throwing people into the air, like Pyro with the airblast or explosions of rockets and grenades.
What you're refering to is something different and it only affects noticeably air targets. A Soldier\Demo standing on the ground are not gonna be moved significantly at all.

Ence why I said that only distance matters, but you're gonna have a hard time moving someone far enough to shift the damage of his rockets from 115 to 50, that's quite a massive distance which, again, will only happen if he is airborne.

No, it's still juggling.

Are you actually retarded? This is a genuine question. Damage falloff is a thing in TF2, and generally it will take about 3 rockets to kill a medic with a bomb, assuming they all land close or hit dead-on. The third rocket finishes them off. How do 2 rockets, doing 112 each, not kill a medic? Duhhhhh, damage falloff, stupid.

I'm not talking about a soldier standing 10 feet away from a heavy, I'm talking about a soldier rocket jumping AT a heavy. It won't work, it doesn't work, it will never work.

You're retarded. It wasn't pasta. I wish bad players didn't see forums and imageboards as an opportunity to use someone to spread their awful opinions. All you are trying to do is to make the game the way more in line with your playstyle and easier for you to win at - your arguments are just just another way of saying you want to nerf the top few percent. Think about me, too! Ruin the game for my sake!

He actually is retarded.

Strike one for mediocre nitpicking video, strike two for not reading the thread

sniper having an advantage so strong in any sniper 1v1 is a really bad time, he shouldnt be able to equip a passive buff and tank any uncharged headshot.

competitive balancing generally trickles down into casual play positively, not negatively

fuck off retard

you genuinely enjoy playing against stun mechanics?

"oh wow he hit me with his luck ball now I'm totally at his mercy for the next 5 seconds"

you're a fucking idiot lmao

heavy is arguably one of the greatest classes in the game when he's given good mobility. he halts any competitive game to a crawl and his ability to hold a point and dish out damage is extremely potent if he's able to be one of the first players at mid, or at least not far behind classes like demo and pyro

no you retard they just made it so you dont get free repairs while staying a mile away from any danger, anbd it's still a 4-to-1 ratio of metal so it'll only take 15 metal to repair 60 sentry HP, which is literally pennies to an engineer

fuck off koreaboo

Finally finished rendering the WebM, in case anyone needs it.

There's nothing lucky about it, if you can't move out of the way from a sandman ball that is coming far enough away to inflict 5 seconds of stun, that's on you.

What happens at strike 3?

if you think hitting a fast projectile warrants putting your opponent at your mercy for an incredibly long period of time and outright removing their ability to play the game, then you have absolutely no fucking clue how to design a good game and your feedback should be thrown in the garbage and the garbage bin should be torched

Example? Because all the shit Valve is proposing right now to cater to competitive players ("sniper fights with a pocket medic involved are imbalanced so razorbacks get no overheal also darwin's danger shield makes you do better against fire than the fire class", "soldiers and demos can't deal with atomizer scouts so we're casualizing the atomizer", "a tool not supposed to take skill takes no skill so bonk gets a slowdown, ignore this is a reversion to its base stats from release") is fucking terrible for casual play in addition to competitive play. Don't say something stupid like comp balancing affects public balancing positively without evidence, especially when most comp balancing in regards to TF2 revolves around 6s, a meta that staunchly enforces Demo/Medic/Soldier/Scout superiority, constantly bans weapons without trying them because it would shake up Soldiers too badly (Fists of Steel banned in several comp circles because Soldiers are too autistic to whip out anything but their rocket launcher), and only went back on a lot of weapon bans because it became apparent Valve wasn't going to cowtow to their whitelists after allowing everything for competitive matchmaking.

well I'll tell you one big reason the atomizer change is a good thing and how it falls in line with past rebalancing; conveyance

previously it was impossible to tell if a scout had the atomizer equipped unless he had it out, but he always had the benefit. this made it a dice roll on how you were going to deal with that scout because he could just triple jump at any time but you dont know if he has that capability.

This is in line with a past nerf to the pretty boy's pocket pistol, when it gave the scout 140 HP. Not being able to tell what your opponent is capable of is a pretty bad situation to be in, because it gives your opponent the elemtn of surprise and a mental advantage.

The atomizer nerf also wasnt soldier and demo focused (where are you getting that impression?) because it impacted every class' ability to combat the scout (who is already arguably the best class in the game, alongside soldier and demoman, so any additional strengths are kinda unwelcome)

Nerfing the atomizer also isnt largely going to impact casual matchmaking since it's not a bat you often see in casual play and doesnt impact casual gameplay a whole lot.

The razorback got a casual buff and a competitive nerf so I don't see why you're complaining. snipers are rarely if ever overhealed in casual matchmaking, and the sniper now regenerate his shield instead of hitting the spawn rooms every time to get a new one.

the bonk change is kinda weird, I don't like it. dunno what to say lol

you also missed the part where most of these balance changes are UP FOR REVIEW and also are based on feedback from all circles and all levels of skill

if you don't like the changes, by all means email them.

Horrible idea. Lowering the damage for Soldier and Demo only buffs the Scout even further, and he's already a fucking monster. You'll only make midfights into slapfights and you'll have TF2 be even more of a fucking snorefest because the classes dedicated to damage output won't be able to make openings. As a result, you might end up with a team trying to offclass sniper even earlier just so they can get a pick, because the dickless Soldier can't do shit and the Scout will be flying around, trying to kite and chip away.

If I had to guess how things will change, there will be Pocket Demos with Kritz, since his current sticky nerf will be reverted (the one where his blast radius is even smaller than the regular rockets) and blast radius will be now double that of a rocket, you'll run into demos just being able to gib teams with even less precision. I assume that's what you were avoiding.

No? The Scout will be even stronger and the Sniper will be used more to get an advantage because the damage dealers won't be able to deal damage as effectively.

The Sandman should've been nerfed years ago. Time to right click for a free pick.

You have to realize that the Sniper getting afterburn immunity is a massive fucking downgrade compared to what the Danger Shield originally was.

The Danger Shield is ridiculously strong because it made the Sniper able to survive a headshot and it passively gave the sniper more max health, so he had even more health when he's pocketed. This was devastating because the sniper's main counter (other snipers) had a really fucking hard time countering this unless they used the shield too.

or
yeah that sure needed a nerf

That team already lost.

pyro's really popular in pubs despite how bad he can be

Yeah well so is 4 snipers and 4 engies on defence.

yep, it boggles the mind. more time has passed since the f2p update than there was time between it and launch, but there's still beaners who just installed the game on every other server.

I like how she has to be drawn off model every single time to look attractive.

is there ever going to be a proper recreation of 2007 era TF2 as a source mod

I mean a less autistic attempt. I mean an actual attempt to just make stock TF2, no unlocks, no hats, with airblasting/engineer picking up buildings.

I can't imagine it would really be that hard to do which is why I'm stunned the TF2 classic guys fucked it up so badly.

TF2 classic was such a sad attempt

...

TF2 is dead, CS is dead, HL is dead, and Portal is dead. Gabe killed Valve with his corporate greed, the only thing left for Valve to do is to die and Gabe commits suicide.

Well, there is TF2 1.0.0.9, which was the basis for TF2C.

Psst. Hey kid.. I heard you wanna play Team Fortress 2 without all the bullshit.

Probably the only thing I actually agree with in regards to Atomizer is that the conveyance factor is something that should've been there before, but ultimately I don't think it's a huge enough deal to warrant serious rethinking when the Sandman offers similar "what the hell is he able to do" factor but since the lowered max HP doesn't work in Scout's favor nobody cares. Same really goes for the Pocket Pistol, I can't recall anybody really caring enough about 15 HP to warrant it only having its effects be readily noticeable. And yes, it is Soldier/Demo focused; the logic behind its change as stated on teamfortress.com is the previously stated conveyance and, verbatim, "It also makes the Scout very strong against explosive classes - due to a combination of extreme mobility and high close-range damage." Read-between-the-lines, Soldiers and Demos can't easily deal with Atomizer Scouts like they can any other class and God help those two if they actually have to deal with a hard counter.
The Razorback's regen defeats the whole point of it being something you have to put some thought into equipping (encourages shuffling around so you're not always getting backstabbed in the same place and having to go back to respawn) and doesn't actually deter Spies even with the buff because if they're not fucking retarded they're going to whip out whatever revolver they've got equipped. Its competitive nerf is fucking weird and applies to a niche situation usually solved by bothering to charge a headshot or do something wild like kill the Medic hiding behind him. Hell, the same goes for the Darwin's Danger Shield and its own stated situation, they want to toss the whole weapon's stats out the window and replace it with better fire immunity than the Pyro's to befit a niche situation that's already solved by just bothering to charge a fucking headshot, or even something as simple as quickshotting to reduce to 1 HP, then plonking them with another shot or an SMG bullet from afar since the first shot of any weapon is always accurate.
Sure, they're up for review, but that doesn't mean they'll actually change any of them. Note that they didn't bother to shut up or correct that b4nny mouthbreather when he was promising all sorts of shit that wasn't actually in the works for Meet your Match. With how many of the skill changes are rooted in competitive league and 6s situations that will rarely if ever be encountered in casual/matchmaking play, I sincerely doubt they're actually going to listen to much of the "for review" feedback. If they do I'll be quite pleasantly surprised.

Launch TF2 is a meme from people who barely remember it, but it's fun to see how the game got its start.

Isn't that still 2007 era TF2?

Not everything Valve added post release was horrible. Good examples being airblasting, lifting buildings and some of the additional weapons like the Sandvich. What I somewhat liked about Team Fortress Classic was they advertised they were going to reverse engineer some of those features back into the 2007 build.

Then they started adding pointless shit nobody asked for.

Another thing is that in order for such a thing to be popular. As in, getting a server full of people to play it. You'd need to make it a source mod you could just download and extract to play.

I certainly agree some of the additions Valve added to TF2 were good like I mentioned above

it's when you get into like 2010-2012 onwards TF2 that it gets really infuriating.

strong against explosive classes yes but he's also stronger with it against every other fucking class including heavy and pyro and even other scouts who ARENT equipped with it

explosive classes arent the focus, potency and conveyance and lack of a proper downside are

Would having the pyro's fire DOTs stack in some manner help rebalance pyro into the close range master he was supposed to be? Asking for a friend, he's saying that considering the amount of ways you can negate fire now it should be more of a threat than just 60 damage if you get licked, while I say that'll just make more people bitch about m1+w more.

This problem happens more often than people think. At this point I'm tempted to make an infograph to help people understand. Vocal shitters are the cancer killing gaming before casualfags aka normalfags. That's not to say shitters aren't casuals, they're a specific breed of them. This problem goes back to when WoW used to be "good."

Shitters are not real players. They're like the SJWs of any specific playerbase, rarely ever playing the game and just wanting the developers to bend over to their will. The sooner developers learn to realize that when they have a good game, 99% of their playerbase is silent and enjoying the quality. Shitters will want to insert their influence into it and control it from behind the scenes before moving on. All of this would be avoided if developers retained a true image of what their game should be like.

Anyone old enough to know better knows that you can't measure a game's quality by its waifus and porn. See LoL.

That was how it was supposed to be played. Yes, I'm serious. TF2 was an analog to TFC. Your team was always supposed to have more of Soldiers and Demos than any other class. What TF2 is now is a guessing game without structure. There's no cohesion between teams because everyone is using various flavors of sidegrades.

There is no meta. Competitive TF2 is so autistic and delusional that not even Valve follows it. The heavy resistance you're talking about are just 4th or 5th generation shitters. Valve's attempts to appease the shitters over the years ensure they will never please everyone. They could have pleased the overwhelming majority of players if they realized that most people were happy way back when and now no one is now.

TF2C was going along fine before the guy running TF2C got kicked out of his own project for having a clearly defined goal:
Goal: Vanilla TF2 with performance as priority.
Then his team came along, started adding nu-TF2 weapons according to their specifications and then kicked him out of his own project. Then the project died. Surprise, surprise.

Wait, who was it again?

The names of them were mentioned in old TF2C threads. Their steam group is probably still up. I doubt they went into hiding. I'm gonna be fair and admit that weapons like the flare gun inclusion was added under the project leader's watch but his compromise to his team would be that unlockable weapons would be locked under server settings and equippable weapons would be expanded to be a feature that would support server-side weapons. Brilliant compromise.

But while they pushing hard for pointless new weapons like an alternate sniper rifle unique to TF2C, he was pushing for his original goal. He even petitioned to Valve to later have TF2C added under the mod category that could be downloaded through Steam, but that would be later down the line. IIRC Valve even responded saying that his terms were agreeable and they would wait until it was Done™.

Then his team went behind his back and removed his access to the project and he was essentially kicked out. If things had gone a different way, we would have had a mod-friendly TF2 set to vanilla by default, optimized for performance but friendly towards cfg changes, and easily downloaded through Steam. But we can't have nice things, let alone a decent version of TF2.

404?

What's this?

Actually, wasn't it danielmm8888? I remember that he was bullied out by no other than dramawhore iiboharz. 404 was the PR guy.

I don't remember their names. I remember clearly how the project leader was basically locked out without warning and the rest of the team took over. You could probably find his comment on Steam mentioning his surprise that he was kicked out without warning or a reason why. The reason why is probably because he had the only sensible plan for the project and he was the reason why it even started.

No, it's not. You are entirely dependant on your oponent already being airborne to do it and even then you can only push him back. That's what it is, it's push force.
Juggling requires the ability to actually make him go airborne because juggling is keeping him airborne. What kind of fucked up definitions are you going by?

You say that like it's some brilliant revelation or even relevant.
Go to the training map with an Heavy, blast your minigun at a Soldier and see how far he is moved back before dying. Then check on just how much that tiny distance actually affects the damage and kill yourself.

And you're an idiot as well since there are exceptions to damage falloff, namely rockets hitting sentries or sentry damage being based on the engineer position, not the sentry, except for the rescue ranger. Got any more "protips" you want to share?

As oposed to every Soldier\Demo main that autistically screech everytime those classes suffer any change?
Contrary to you autistic faggots, I actually like to play ALL 9 classes since each one can be fun in it's own way.
What I don't fucking like is to feel forced to pick those 2 faggots if I actually want to win because everyone else is a gimped version of their own.

It's pretty cool to play engineer but it fucking sucks how hard countered you are by literally anyone but Scout, while defending as Demo would give me far more area denial, surprise attacks, versatily and even more HP.

So ex-fucking-cuse me for wanting to play a game called Team Fortress 2 and not Soldier Fortress 2. And you fags even have the audacity to complain when people move on to other games that at least try to make every class viable!

It's lower damage when against a single target. Land a rocket in the middle of 3 people or a medic combo and you get double the damage.
The Soldier can have some of it's damage lowered as well since there's no need for it to be as high and Pyro could actually justify his fucking presence in the Offense category as he'd dish out the best damage in close quarters.

Do consider that the Scout has to get dangerously close to people for his full damage while Soldier, even with the half damage nerf, could dish punishment from much farther away.

It would lead to bigger TTK, yes. Dunno why that's a problem, it reduces the luck factor a lot and makes fights more interesting.

No, they'd have the same radius as rockets, their difference being just the ricochet and angled shot. A crit with them would do the damage they do by default now while regular grenades would do half but, like the rockets, hit multiple people in a large area.
Again, the point is to deny areas and spread damage, not necessarily kill people and do remenber Demo is in the Defense Category.

Against Soldiers and Demos, since every other hard counter he has (heavy, engy, pyro) would still work as usual.
Yes, a support character would actually see use. That'd be the freaking point. Maybe spies would see some more action once people start avoiding open areas, maybe engies get a shot at doing their stuff, maybe pyros get finnaly called for massive damage and disruption, maybe something else other than the same classes will be played.

I'd also like to say that, while shitters are subhuman scum, the fault lies in the players for being passive bitches as well.
You see the game you love being changed in front of you, you know there's a forum where people are talking and you can give feedback… And you say nothing?
You deserve whatever future you inherit if you do nothing to stop it.

They are purposefully fucking up this game so millennials get too bored of videogames and go get jobs.

You should have figured out from his GTA video that Crowb doesn't do videos about shit that actually matters.

This is a good thing for any competitive game, lower fps is better than pretty graphics.

The niggers criticizing this changes also don`t understand that you can meddle with the source settings and make the game as pretty as your machine can handle, certainly way better than default ULTRA graphics.

Actually, you can't. And this isn't as much about performance but getting this burning heap of garbage to still run with all the unoptimized hat and accessory content. Even after this, performance is abysmal.

That's the issue. If you end up nerfing the demo/soldier's 1v1 capabilities, you'll end up inadvertently buffing the scout. There's no way around it.

You don't have to go with meatshots as Scout. You're not supposed to go for meatshots only as Scout. If you end up doing only that, you'll end up doing no damage in the long run because you'll have:

Or maybe instead of parroting the same points everyone already discussed to dead he wanted to show something that's not talked very often?

The critique is not about worse graphics but rather less attention to detail. Best example is the sniper bit where the shell exits the wrong side.
Back when the game came out and they were all about "check out Source Engine and all the neat physics stuff you can do in it!" you got weapons being tossed around specifically for that reason. Now that they want a "competitive game", they get rid of those details.

While the Ammo Box instead of weapons was a great idea for feedback purposes, things like the sappers just disappearing looks lazy.
Reminds me a lot of "professional" quake players that reduce graphics to the point that every wall is a single color and every detail that matters is a single bright color to distinguish it better.
Sure it helps with the gameplay but at that point you're playing an ugly ass shit game, so what's the point? Seeing red cylinders colliding with androgenous green men?

Unless you are talking about modding, there's no way to return models or animations back to what they were or even improve them just by tinkering with settings. You don't get better than "ULTRA graphics" because that's pulling the best that the Source Engine can give you.

I've noticed that, as time went by, performance for the game on the same computer went down. Maybe this gradual downgrade is their way to balance things and prevent performance from dropping too much with every update.

Apparently shit like hats and other cosmetics was crazy detailed compared to the rest of the game.

Minor correction
Simplified animations and cosmetic level of detail is not adjusted by the standard options menu.
You can significantly increase fps by forcing cosmetics to load their low LOD models.

I wish they didn't live at all

will they be improving the graphics to be as good as they were 10 years ago?

Nigger, that's the FOURTH time it's posted.
You also fell for the bait.

Do you read threads before you post in them?

SNL 40th anniversary.

This is true, from the start Valve had always gave passive support to the competitive scene, but yet ever since the MyM update which is Valve's attempt to bring the comp scene into official server has been (thankfuly) reviled by the community they want to appease itself, not to mention their abrupt cancellation of Quickplay. It's also proof that Valve had no idea what the fuck are they going with the direction they're taking this game into

Listen here you fucking nigger, what i meant was that if Valve had left TF2 as it was at launch, the game would have been dying by the time 2008 rolls around. Valve releases content after the launch to ensure that TF2 would have been a healthy, thriving multiplayer shooter that would have able to put Valve in the multiplayer scene (No, CSS don't count since 1.6 is still popular back then) while printing money for Valve by selling cosmetics (Now it has grown into a huge bulging tumor that plagues every multiplayer game) . Fast forward to today and it's CSGO and DotA 2 that are Valve's newest breed of golden gooses, while TF2 has been left in the dust with a skeleton crew to put up a facades that (((Valve))) actually cared for their long-living community (10 years for an active multiplayer shooter is a really good track record).
You get that? fucking shit of course i knew that a game would stagnate sooner or later, it's the cycle of life

No, you see the sandman has been nerfed quite alot after its inception. You just can't comprehend how broken that thing was back then, y'see back then the stun ALWAYS knocks you out (what i meant was that you can't even move) and the ball could stun through UBERs. Of course the playerbase thought that this was pure bullshit and it was periodically nerfed to what it is now. Nowadays the ball's stun is very brief and you'll probably only guaranteed to hit are heavies since they're such a big and slow target and you can't stun jumping players. This was offset by having the scout much less durability than usual (-15 max health = shaving off health that could have given you an edge on other scouts) and the stun itself being more situational that actually useful most of the time

2007 TF2 with its best graphics still runs better than current year TF2 with its worst