The curse of RTS strikes again

You could almost say it's

like pottery

Yeah, I saw this three days ago
Oh shit
God fucking damnit, I'm too old for this shit.
I wonder if hes willing to go make a new game with Sega, they're better now and the market has changed heavily since SupCom2

I also wish Petroglyph got another contract with Sega, I'm afraid that they'll die the way things are going.

the industry died long ago, don't believe in anything, be skeptical at best

Look up what Romero, Carmack, and Spector are all doing now, these people have different philosophies and thinking than what we have today, technology advances and changes with the change in video games and human being simply can't adapt that fast. Never look up to anyone especially people who make video games.

Bitch these games are so different from one another you cannot count them as one. On top of this pretty much all of the series got fucked by their devs and casualization.
How can we talk about perfecting a formula when all formulas got fucked over and buried.

you've not played many RTS games have you?

How are these people not able to see how shit that sounds? Like, do they not play games themselves at all?

on paper it makes sense

Ok instead of all this bullshit can you stop being a faggot and just name series that perfected its formula?

Don't forget World in Conflict though thats RTT

They do, on their fucking phone

So how many games now have tried to save\redefine the RTS Genre and then completely failed?
These all shit themselves, Daw of War 3 especially since it just turned into a shitty MOBA halfway through production and the fanbase hates it already

good quality cuckchan thread

My guess is that his investors have a bunch of wild ideas about what should make them a bunch of money and he just has to grit his teeth and try to make it good.

Grey goo was only bad because it's ai was wildly inconsistent and the game had zero map making or modding capability.

Devs fuck this part up every time and it's something that even fucking Bethesda realized. You can release a shit game but if your framework is good the public can unfuck your game for you.

I'll keep it simple for you

So Chris Taylor has been freed from the Wargaming dungeon I see, this is probably going to be a trainwreck but let's see how it goes.

Also wait and see what destructive creations releases with ancestors.

I enjoyed the hell out of hatred and is defense and those both sprang from 'dead generes'

Theres a reason why games like Carnivores/The Quest/Solomons Keep are coming to PC, and thats because 2010 half decent smartphone games no longer sell there, theres no niche audience there anymore since the Appstores are 3 times worse than Steam on curating their content and everyone just makes the same mobage/idleshit/puzzleshit.

This idea is fucking retarded, only shit like Gameloft, King, EA and Glu gets through and they work directly with the Appstores because they have a standart AAA company behind them full of money.

This idea is fucking retarded

Its dead

You and me, user.

Both supcom 1 and 2, tib wars 3, cnc 1 and various others got released on console.

The f2p model was already perfected years ago, user. How can you possibly improve on it?

that's why I said on paper

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it's a good thing

But those weren't developed in current year + 2 where every platform is given pretty much the same amount of attention
Aside from SupCom 2 those games were made with PCs on mind and gamepads later.
Maybe they'll deliver, but that will be a huge surprise.

Deserts of Kharat

is not homeworld 3, thanks for reminding me

There were quite a few games, all mediocre or bad.

I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has a good record behind him and all his documentaries and documents prove that he knows his shit. I mean, even his worst games are still overall good games and better than most others in their respective genres. If this project is going to be a trainwreck, he will at least make it a wreck unlike anything else that puts all the others to shame.

Also Command and Conquer, Starcraft, and Dune

You should never expect good things of old devs.
We need new people making strategy games, and they should not be focused on eSports, or the entire shit will fail anyway.

Why is it so hard to make a good RTS that has both essencial dev/community support?

oh and also you fags forgot about Dawn of War 3 and Steel Division :^)

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Steel Division is an alright RTT but its a Wargame with a new setting and some new gimmicks.
Eugen needs to give out mod tools

wouldn't that be the shit

You just named out game series that I haven't said. I even named their devs as the ones that fucked up and don't pretend SC2 have nothing to do with WC3. Rest is either dead or also got fucked.
So could you say how 1 of those perfected its formula? I just want to remind you it was not contest for knowing most RTS but actually having stable RTS series that got close to a point of perfection.

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No, it wasn't. Tiberian Sun showed how much potential was still in it, and in a way that showed that TS itself was only scratching the surface.

Steel division is an inferior Wargame polluted by Parajew. All the new mechanics compared to Wargame are stupid/broken, they touted a campaign mode yet they somehow managed to make a worse solo than red dragon/airland battle.

IT is not a good game.

DoW III is garbage, pure and simple, it's C&C 4 all over again.

That is how this argument started. I was saying no RTS perfected itself in response to this guy

I gave you what you asked for

Well fuck this bullshit. Lets play some vidya. Out of :
8bit,Act of War, Sins of Solar Empire, Blitzkrieg, Cossacks 3
Which one is best?

Blitzkrieg, specially with mods

What about spellforce ? It could be fun, right ?

Arch Warhammer kinda explains the wider issue with the RTS genre. These fucking studios keep trying to pander to a market that doesn't exist. The "wider audience" does not fucking exist for RTS. RTS is, and will always be, a niche genre.

people think that it's a niche genre but that's actually not entirely true, it's certainly not a main stream genre that is for sure

People who think RTS has been perfected are retarded mouthbreathers, take a look at Tiberian Sun, look at how many interesting ideas there were in the game and how they could be evolved. Then tell me how RTS is perfected you pretentious cunt.

RTS needs to evolve to include many more factors than just your base and your units. The problem right now is that there's no interactivity from maps in current RTS, they are ALL dead worlds, probably because they want the retarded eSports market. That's why these devs fail, because they are fucking SHIT.

did you play warcraft3?

I did, I'm talking about current RTS. They all fail because they don't include interactivity in the maps.

Spellforce 3 has neutrals guarding treasures. Which is pretty much all the interactivity WC3 neutrals had.

nah that kinda thing doesn't determine if an RTS will fail or not, the fact of the matter is newer RTS games have either been sc2 clones or tried to do something completely different but forget basic importance aspects needed for it to be enjoyable

Spellforce 3 isn't out yet, but I'm optimistic. I loved the first one as flawed as it was, second one was a mixed bag, but the third so far looks good.

I don't really care much about neutrals. Garrisoning buildings and taking over refineries, drop zones, hospitals and etc. buildings that give bonuses is way more fun for me than bashing on some random NPCs
Sadly red alert didn't encourage making expansion bases, while dawn of war had your listening posts all over the place. Something in the middle would be best. Kind of like the creeping forward in battle for middle earth.

I hope they have more spells like spellforce 1 rather than 2

Well I had typed up a long post but then I hit some key and it fucking loaded another page, losing everything. TL:DR all innovation seems to have moved over to RTT with the likes of Men of War and Wargame, and RTS are stagnant esport cancer pieces of shit.

Only game I know that tried to take it beyond TS was Maelstrom, with real time map flooding (dynamic water, not some shitty horizontal plane that goes up and down), terraforming to channel that water around, or just freezing it and fighting atop it. Sadly, Maelstrom's base RTS mechanics were pretty mediocre so it was like building a skyscraper atop rotten foundations. There are also other deviations like BFME, Perimeter, and Spellforce, all of which were interesting but just died of instead of evolving (except Spellforce, we'll see how 3 is).

WC3 is a bad example of interactivity anyway, it was carried by a good RTS core with the addition of heroes, 4 rather different factions, and especially the custom games.

Well I can't speak for others, but it does for me. I don't care if a developer manages to make a game as good as the C&C of old, I am sick and tired of that old stale formula because I've been playing it for decades, I don't want another C&C, I want something fucking new for once, I don't give a shit how well the formula is replicated.

Newer RTS just copy the SC model of harvesting resources, it's a far more boring model compared to C&C where the resource is spread over the map and interacts with units. Second is unit design and how uninspired they are. The third thing I noticed is that the UI in these new RTS is completely shit, specifically when you select units, it takes up far too much space and makes your army look like a blob. I could go on, but every new RTS has all sorts of different problems.

That's what I was talking about with interactivity in maps, there's also ion storms in TS. This is something I miss from C&C.

but then you actually want some RTS hybred which I can only think of one which has worked and that's sins of a solar empire, every other has been awful

Are you even aware of how different those game are on consoles and pc and that they were ported to consoles AFTER development and not made multiplay from the fucking get go?

Even if it has 4X elements, its still a pure RTS game
also advent is best team

Also HOAE wasn't bad if not entirely unbalanced and WBC 3 was pretty gud

RTS does not mean C&C/Starcraft formula, not in the least. BFME, Spellforce, Cossacks, and Total Annihilation are all examples of great games that did not follow the C&C/SC formula (in fact TA was superior to either of them).

Best 4X

There is so much things that could be improved with current technology that wasnt available years ago
For eg destructible environment and more interactivity, think of fire spreading mechanics from tiberian sun but improved

/thread

Supreme Commander Forged Alliance Forever

the devs even called it a hybred and you mean Vassari

they're not different formulas, they're variants on what dune set

At least im glad that EA stopped raping the corpse of westwood, as ungrateful as it was at least C&C is buried now instead of being reanimated as soulless assfaggots or something worse

Hold my beer.

I hate how this pretty much means that the game has to be intense micro-managing shit.

Come to think of it, is there even any eSports game that isnt dead where it's kinda like… chess? As in moves slowly, turnbased, "relaxing" etc.

Don't fucking jinx it.

They raped my harbingers, fuck them

its almost like you're a faggot

The phone game was really far in development. I consider phone games worse than assfaggots.

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Lets be cautiously optimistic

Are you dumb? Because that's the synonym for "optimistic".

I just don't like having to stare at a mans ass all day

riiiiiiiight

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They're different formulas of the RTS genre. I dunno how much further BFME could deviate from the standard formula before it becomes something other than an RTS.

Looks like you faggot never played 5min per player or 3 min for player

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such a different formula

That's why the quotation marks you cunt, i meant similar to how chess is played in general when there's plenty of time to think your next move or 30-60seconds atleast when compared to GookCraft or assfaggots or whatever the fuck tries to be eShits thesedays where the requirement to play is to have an ADHD.

Playing fast chess defeats the purpose of the calm boardgame.
It's the damn e-sports version of chess.

I agree user, Its why i think FPS and third person shooter should be the same genre

have an invisible cookie

s'like potter

Only phone game I played was "Dope Wars"

Should I try Blitzkrieg? My dad always liked it, and I think his old copy of Blitzkrieg 2 is around somewhere.

hell yes you should, specially if you like proper supply chains

Son, they're not called Parajew for nothing. EU4 is still 35 English pounds after 4 years of release and they've ran out of ideas for dlc so they're making nation packs. Nation packs, in a fucking game that has over 500 nations. Steel Division will have it's price doubled in 8 months by map packs, and doubled again by nation packs

I don't know anything about RTS though, how badly will I get wrecked?

Well fug, I can only find the disk for blitzkrieg 2 liberation

it's a classic, so your anus is going to the nazi treatment

1. Build unit makers
2. Making units
3. Attacking enemy
4. Repeat until victory

If you feel fancy you can even try things like tactics and strategy but those are trivial.

No, rock, paper,scissors, is actual strategy

I'll have you know that rock/paper paper/scissors scissors/rock is REAL actual strategy you'll find

Well, I found the disk for the main game at the bottom of a drawer, here's hoping it works ok.

Nah clicking faster is actual strategy

same thing in principle

Rock is imba, paper is weakest faction, scissors is too micro intensive.

Devs please fix

dev's here, we're releasing a new RP'nS(tm) and we're very excited to tell you about all the changes we've got in store, firstly we're going to looking for a wider audience so we're streamlining the RP'nS(tm) experience by replacing the game with a giant blue button that whenever you press it wins the game for you oh but don't worry old rusty angry vets of RP'nS(tm)! multiplay will still be that intense RP'nS(tm) feel you know and love by having you go against real players and whoever clicks the button the most in under 15 minutes wins! isn't that exciting? well there's more! pre-order now and we'll fuck your dog!

You may be on to something…

worldrps.com/how-to-beat-anyone-at-rock-paper-scissors/

1 – Rock is for Rookies
In RPS circles a common mantra is “Rock is for Rookies” because males have a tendency to lead with Rock on their opening throw. It has a lot to do with idea that Rock is perceived as “strong” and forceful”, so guys tend to fall back on it. Use this knowledge to take an easy first win by playing Paper. This tactic is best done in pedestrian matches against someone who doesn’t play that much and generally won’t work in tournament play.
2 – Scissors on First
The second step in the ‘Rock is for Rookies’ line of thinking is to play scissors as your opening move against a more experienced player. Since you know they won’t come out with rock (since it is too obvious), scissors is your obvious safe move to win against paper or stalemate to itself.
3 – The Double Run
When playing with someone who is not experienced at the RPS, look out for double runs or in other words, the same throw twice. When this happens you can safely eliminate that throw and guarantee yourself at worst a stalemate in the next game. So, when you see a two-Scissor run, you know their next move will be Rock or Paper, so Paper is your best move. Why does this work? People hate being predictable and the perceived hallmark of predictability is to come out with the same throw three times in row.
4 – Telegraph Your Throw
Tell your opponent what you are going to throw and then actually throw what you said. Why? As long as you are not playing someone who actually thinks you are bold enough to telegraph your throw and then actually deliver it, you can eliminate the throw that beats the throw you are telegraphing. So, if you announce rock, your opponent won’t play paper which means coming out with that scissors will give you at worst a stalemate and at best the win.
5 – Step Ahead Thinking
Don’t know what to do for your next throw? Try playing the throw that would have lost to your opponents last throw? Sounds weird but it works more often than not, why? Inexperienced (or flustered) players will often subconsciously deliver the throw that beat their last one. Therefore, if your opponent played paper, they will very often play Scissors, so you go Rock. This is a good tactic in a stalemate situation or when your opponent lost their last game. It is not as successful after a player has won the last game as they are generally in a more confident state of mind which causes them to be more active in choosing their next throw.
6 – Suggest A Throw
When playing against someone who asks you to remind them about the rules, take the opportunity to subtly “suggest a throw” as you explain to them by physically showing them the throw you want them to play. ie “Paper beats Rock, Rock beats scissors (show scissors), Scissors (show scissors again) beats paper.” Believe it or not, when people are not paying attention their subconscious mind will often accept your “suggestion”. A very similar technique is used by magicians to get someone to take a specific card from the deck.
7 – When All Else Fails Go With Paper
Haven’t a clue what to throw next? Then go with Paper. Why? Statistically, in competition play, it has been observed that scissors is thrown the least often. Specifically, it gets delivered 29.6% of the time, so it slightly under-indexes against the expected average of 33.33% by 3.73%. Obviously, knowing this only gives you a slight advantage, but in a situation where you just don’t know what to do, even a slight edge is better than none at all.
8 – The Rounder’s Ploy
This technique falls into more of a ‘cheating’ category, but if you have no honour and can live with yourself the next day, you can use it to get an edge. The way it works is when you suggest a game with someone, make no mention of the number of rounds you are going to play. Play the first match and if you win, take it is as a win. If you lose, without missing a beat start playing the ‘next’ round on the assumption that it was a best 2 out of 3. No doubt you will hear protests from your opponent but stay firm and remind them that ‘no one plays best of one for a kind of decision that you two are making’. No this devious technique won’t guarantee you the win, but it will give you a chance to battle back to even and start again.

Oddly enough I see a lot of parallels with this and certain aspects of RTS gaming.

Rock is like GDI/UEF, a solid choice that conveys strength used by beginners.

Paper is like Nod/Cybran, sneaky and used by people who have experience and know how to beat rookies with cleverness

Scissors is like Scrin/Aeon, the 'tech/wacky' side that while capable of beating the paper faction fails to beat a determined rock player.

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Indeed

U fockin w0t m8

Please kill yourself blizzdrone

he might be talking about FAF user

Total annihilation? Holy shit that's 90s nostalgia right there.

Actually this is true for old school gamers as well. We have been replaced by the new machine.

total annihilation is still a good game

The Homeworld remaster was, and it pains me to say this, a piece of shit.

So what hope would there be for Homeworld 3? Who owns the rights to it nowadays?

Wrong. Aeon is the power side, their units are specialist and have the best health and damage. They will usually beat UEF if both players have equal skill.

In FAF. In original and FA, Monkeylords were so much cheaper that you could get one up early, and spam them if you wanted. Not enough map to kite five monkeylords around even with six fatboys and supporting units.

SupCom 1 was where this was most apparent, were Monkeys could be spammed, had a deathray turret, and were all around excellent units.

Gearbox.

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What the fucking shit are you trying to say user?
SC is gookclick even if its a stupid, meaningless phrase. Age of Empires didn't start pumping out expansions until recently; it was considered pretty much perfect back in the day. All of the shit you're complaining about is new when the guy said it was perfected years ago.

Gearbox must have been blackmailed or something to be this absolutely shit for the last few years.

Hey user, I've only played Cataclysm, a long time ago. How do 1 and 2 compare to what I understand is 1.5? I don't know the consensus on Cataclysm but the ship-infection mechanic was pretty neat.

I just want an unholy unity of RTS, RTT, 4X, and Grand Strategy, add in MOBA/ASSFAGGOTS if someone likes. And game tools to make new damn content for the game.

Homeworld and Homeworld 2 don't play like Cataclysm. Homeworld 1 has a lot of a mysterious side, more of a sense you are going into the unknown. Cataclysm is basically space horror and is in a universe you thought you knew about. Homeworld universe really has a lot of good lore and stuff to it, shame it pretty much is underutilized

SC:FA without stupid software bottlenecks would be a good start

I wanna ask chris taylor just what he was thinking when he went with supreme commander 2's art style.

Shekels.

Is Starcraft even popular in South Korean any more or is it dying even there?

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If only the path finding was good.

back to 4chan

It's dead Jim.

Looks like doom is a totally separate genre then.
: ^ )

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What is even worse is they outbid Stardock for it.

Check the date retards.

Wake me up when once there is an actual good RTS released

So AI War?

Lmao lads.

This. It's like having faith in the old cavalry officers during World War I.

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At least the cavalry died with honor. We die as mobile f2p.

Cataclysm is a lot different in tone, but the writing is really good.

The gameplay is a little bit dumbed down, though. For some reason, capital ship turrets now track fighters just fine, so there's no real reason not to roll in heavy with as many destroyers and cruisers as you can get your grubby little chosen space people hands on. The second a beast missile or infected taiidan interceptor shows up, they just light it the fuck up with the main guns, which predictably make short work of fighters.

Still fun though.