Don't video games actually need a plot?

I've been recently thinking about the claim about how "Video games are about the gameplay, not the story." But, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this claim is completely and utterly false. Outside of the stuff that already exists in real life, I cannot think of a single game that lacks a plot. And, before someone brings up the earliest of FPS games or platformers or arcade titles saying, "Look, no plot!", you should know that you're missing something very obvious.

To use one of the most overused example in FPS gaming, look at Doom (No, not nuDoom). The setup of the game is that you're a space marine fighting demons. There's your plot. Why are you fighting demons? Why are you a space marine? Are you playing this game because you feel awesome taking down targets while sliding across a floor, or are you playing this game to take down demons? If it's the former, would you still play the game if you were fighting, say, killer bears? If you're really playing Doom for the "gameplay, then why aren't you taking up skeet or 3 gun shooting, or even just play one of the mechanical duck shooting galleries one can find at an arcade?

Then, to move onto another overused example, there's Super Mario Bros.. Everything in that game is designed to have a seamless plot that you just…accept, and people are holding it up as an example of how games do not need a plot. That game is just a shiny obstacle course. If they replaced any one of the items for something more barebones and/or "realistic" (To put it one way), you wouldn't want to be playing it.

Pac-Man is just a mix of CTF and tag. RPGs are just the story one tells about their experiences in life. Survival Horror titles are just the flipside of those experiences and the dangers that some men have faced. Beat 'em Ups and Hack & Slash titles are just people getting into fisticuffs (Optionally, with a weapon).

So, to get to the initial point I'm trying to make, you guys are sending a woefully inaccurate message when you're saying "I don't want a story in my games." When you send that message across, you're (Ironically) saying "I want to live real life." and essentially removing yourself from being a player of video games, and these companies can (And, probably have, to manipulative stakes for some) interpreted that as saying that your no longer their target demographic.

Now, to answer the question, here is what can be done about it. We have to rephrase the entire argument about what it is that we want from our games. From what I've observed, people don't want a lack of plot, and they don't want the game to be about the plot either. If I may suggest, can we starting pushing a message, to companies, saying, "I want a game that explains what I am doing, what I am here to do, and that is it." You can reword that to however you want to best suite your needs, but we have to stop barking up the wrong tree about how we don't want a plot in vide games.

And, the problem is that if we don't. we will be losing this battle every single time.

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Depends on the length. If it's a game like pacman, then not really.
If it's something modern, and lasts longer, then sure. You need to give the player a reason to play and explore, that's how you make them release dopamine after giving them the illusion of progress. If you don't give them that illusion, then they won't feel very motivated to keep playing and get bored. That's one of the issues I had with BOTW personally, the fighting system was awesome, so was the weapons, aside from some issues about weapons break (If you accidentally hit the ground or a tree for example) but it was another "Link is the hero, save Zelda, kill Ganon" kind of thing.

It's funny, the Zelda's I've enjoyed the most didn't have ganon (Minish Cap), or had him at the very end (Like AlttP, TP).
I still question the name choice of "Calamity Ganon" and not "Chaos Ganon" or "Catastrophe Ganon" or "Callous Ganon"

nice flag and reddit pics

Is this shit in 60fps?

People are not arguing that games don't need a plot at all when they say that dumb ass. Jesus the fact that you completely misunderstood that simple phrase and over analyzed it this much really shows your autism.

Okay first of all that is not chromosome hoarder spacing, and second of all it's filtered because Mark is a filthy hook-nosed kike.

No I'm saying I want games with enjoyable gameplay you projecting ass hat.
Go kill yourself.

top lel
so the term leddit spacing is even more leddit now

But I've never said I don't want a story. In fact, there's only a very small body of autists that ever suggest that. I'd go so far as to say that most people are completely ambivalent, perhaps even more in the story direction.

The issue with story in games has nothing to do with it being there, but rather how it is integrated. There are a lot of "games" coming out in the modern era, like Gone Home or Telltale Games, which intend to tell a "story" that has a very limited set of boundaries. The result is that you end up with something that has no gameplay value at all, and simply isn't fun. Indeed, the only reason it's a "game" at all is because some hack writer found it easier to tell a story that way than to just write a book - because, surprise surprise, he's not actually a good writer.

Doom has a story about a marine in space who massacres the servants of Hell. There are a lot of chances for him to failure, which gives fail states to the game. There is a lot of action and excitement. The story of the game blends into the gameplay with no issue. The same goes for Mario - you're a plumber saving a princess. The game is set up in a certain way, with a certain world, that allows there to be a "win" state - saving the princess - but which is still fun to go through.

Some games have actually gotten smarter about this, and allow the gameplay and story to be integrated together. Your character gets beat the fuck up in-story and has his shit stolen? Now he has no gear. Now you've added a degree of complexity, or forced the player to use new mechanics. Other times, you can use simple matters like difficulty to tell something. You're going for the Holy Grail to save England, and things are going to shit everywhere. To claim your prize, you need to defeat a killer rabbit, and then use the Grail to take down [some asshole]. The killer rabbit just might be the hardest fight in the game, whereas [some asshole] is basically a trash mob at the end of a series of trash mobs once you have the Grail in hand. Here the game switches the normal position of the "hardest enemy" from the very end to just beforehand, so you can revel in victory.

In short:

How is someone else suppose to know that? You know that and I know that because we play games, talk about them here, and we see where things are heading based off of the current trends. But, how is someone else outside of the gaming sphere suppose to interpret that phrase?

Also, what's to prevent someone from twisting that phrase to say that "Gamers are dead"?

FUCKING LMAO

And to answer your question, no they don't. Read a fucking book you stupid nigger.

Check em.

I really, really like this image.

Yeah, you ain't from around here faggot.

Hownew.ru

VOLS

I thought I disabled the damn thing, thanks for noticing.

Wait wait are you actually saying we should start some fucking shilling campaing so that newfags who don't even play vidya dont get confused when they come here?
Oh my god just kill yourself.

I came here today actually. There was a big reddit invite and everyone was invited :3c teehee

Thread theme.

This image reminded me of meat grinder user, who stuck his dick in a meat grinder and circumsciced himself

thread personal helicoptor

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No, I was thinking something more along the lines giving companies less ground to stand on when they try to say that "Gamers" are no longer their target demographic, and that they shouldn't spend their time focusing on them.

Carmack said it best when he said "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

Delete your thread and start over. When someone makes long winded paragraphs, people here freak out because it reminds me of reddit trying desperately to sound like intellectuals. You probably got caught in the filter due to said alarm.

Checked

Reddit spacing meme is getting old. There is nothing wrong with putting a damn line between paragraphs.

There's nothing wrong when it's called for.
but

If you do it for every single fucking paragraph, even when it's only one sentence or two long it's annoying.

Feel me?

I wanna feel you from the I n s i d e

That's part of the reason why I wrote such a longwinded OP. If I wrote something short, not only could it be misinterpreted (Like the point I'm making in the OP), but the thread was just going to be filled with "(1) and done posts". And, it doesn't help that some anons are on high alert for baiting topics with the drop of the ''FC5" trailer today (Discuss that game here shills: The topic is already derailed enough as it is.). So, the way I formatted it seemed like the better of the two options.

Only two of the seven paragraphs in the OP are two sentences or less. The rest consist of 5+ sentence paragraphs. If I may ask, did you mean lines, not sentences?

I wasn't talking about the op


that

Holy shit I want summer to end!

Oh, I started doing that to make it easier to distinguish between when I'm replying to a post I made and I'm replying to another user's post.

doesn't explain

SUMMER HASN'T EVEN BEGUN

I didn't have any problem with the OP. I actually read it all, though I didn't particularly care enough to comment on it. But I'll agree that game definitely need some kind of plot. Unless you're talking about a puzzle game that exists solely for the challenge of solving the puzzles. I was mainly just bitching about people who complain about "reddit spacing", as if that is any kind of complaint at all. It's worlds better than unreadable giant walls of text, which is the alternative.

That's what scares me the most

Nah, it has already begun.

Nigger fuck off


Nigger, no one wants to hear your faggot pretentious shit about muh story. Go back >>>/reddit/ with your fellow pseudo intellectuals.

You're the one acting like a nigger, faggot

No, you're a nigger faggot.

t. nigger faggot

If you're referring to the last sentence, it was to separate the point of it from the paragraph in the rest of the post.

dubs

sage for shit thread

you fags have been doing nothing but mindless trolling. but you're at least right about the thread being shit.

Know of a better way to phrase what I'm talking about in the OP (Without the thread going to shit)? I'm open to suggestions.

Well golly gee nigger what should we do about that? Oh right

kys nigger faggot

Oh, you could tell?
But yeah, the OP is pretty much meaningless schlock for 5 fucking paragraphs that comes to a conclusion that basically says what the consensus of Holla Forums is.

You can always just take your facebook memes and fuck off, that would be best for everyone.

>>>/cuckchan/

don't waste people's damn time and use leddit memes from 2009

>>>/somethingawful/

woah checked

>>>/anywherebuthere/

lurk moar

If you lurked more you'd have known this thread wouldn't be well received. OP just states the obvious. Extra shit defending yourself against legitimate criticisms proving that the thread is pointless from the beginning.

>>>/neogaf/

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Wrong, they need a narrative not a plot. Do NOT confuse the two, they are very similar yet distinct concepts.

A narrative is required to make the setting make sense. A good example is Donkey Kong. The narrative is that you're Jumpman and saving Pauline is your driving motivation. This is a narrative, not a complete plot. A narrative is just a device to drive the player. That's all you need

Alright, I'll see about deleting the thread then.

Now that's funny.

You're overthinking shit too. Lighten up.

dubs thread?

already was one friend

If you're going to come back, then quit using motivational meme shit.


kek and now OP has no reason to come back

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Thanks for that bit of insight (No, seriously, thanks. Wording is everything).

Yeah, I have to admit, that's often a weakness of mine.

Apparently…

why do you post like a faggot?

Well (First two embed)…but, then again, I don't believe I'm that far gone (Third embed).

There was a story to Tetris?

Also, I am tired of being jewed.

Most of Holla Forums can only write a sentence with with four of five words and couldn't construct a paragraph to save their ass. So when they see not one but two or three paragraphs with proper spacing they go into full rage. Even though I've been here a long time, I've always hated the reddit spacing meme and it needs to die in cases where people are actually writing something longer than, "fuck you nigger".

IIRC, Tetris was never meant to be a game. It was a sort of test the Soviets used.

POSTAL 2 was about an everyday guy doing chores
Garry's mod has no storyline whatsoever.
The Sims is about living or giving up and just dying.

There are plenty of games like this with no plot and great gameplay.

Is Tetris not a game?

nice defending a shit thread faggot
why was this thread brought back

The filters on that image scare me.

I like a good story in games, and it's part of the reason why I like video games more than board games or card games. But a bad story will suffice as well. It should never take precedent over gameplay. A good story can gloss over a lot of flaws in a bad game to carry the player through to the ending. Hell, the story might even be good enough to move the player and stay with them long after the game ends… but it's still just a bad game with a good story.

why was this thread brought back

I don't know. I thought everything was done and over with last night.

saging shit thread again

dubs check em

You're stretching the definition of plot almost to breaking point and confusing it with art-style (bears would not match Dooms style). If I, for example, made a game that was literally just developer textures and keycard hunting you could still claim there's a (bad) story about a fucker who really loves keycards but that's not what anons mean when they say gameplay > story.

This was the worst effort post I have ever seen on an Image Board, OP. A better one will follow tomorrow if your thread lives that long.

You're confusing plot with context/structure of game. Honestly it's understandable, since societies a literally built on games, but you're retarded since you're applying the specific definition of video games to the general definition of games. Chess doesn't have a plot. Sports games typically don't have plots. A lot of plots are just globe trotting excuses.

Define plot/narrative/context and other various relevant terms in the OP if you actually want to have a productive conversation instead of a bunch of people saying things about what they think you're saying. Or just kill yourself for all I care.

Deepest lore

I just got here, Reddit is sponsoring you guys should I stay?Well?

Video games only need enough plot to string together the mechanics, and the best way to introduce said plot is through the intersection of the 'video' and 'game' parts of 'video games'
In Doom, for instance, you're fighting demons because demons are trying to kill you, as evidenced by the fact that when you enter a room the demons shoot at you.
You learn that Doomguy is very good at killing demons, as evidenced by the fact that unless you work for polygon you can win if you apply yourself.
So on and so forth, all the way through the game.

Is that webm from an abridged series?

DBZ and hellsing were great, nothing else scratches that itch.

Story only needs to exist in games to justify (and thus explain) the gameplay to the player. In games with more straightforward objectives, and simpler mechanics (at least on the surface) you don't need much to explain to the player what he's doing and why he's doing. For more complex games with more intricate tasks, intricate environments, and more breadth to the gameplay, then you're going to need some added story to flavor it up and make it more easily digestible to players.

So this Carmack quote is correct but doesn't tell the whole story. While story isn't important from any mechanical or game perspective, it becomes more important to the game's presentation. Here's a similar comparison: A game without story is like porn without story. Sure, there's still two people fucking, but without the setup it may be harder to get into.

I agree with you OP. Videogames were a joke 10 years ago. Narrative and story are taking the front row seat now, and that's a good thing for us. Videogaming needs to grow up and drop the controller for a second and let the characters express themselves, let the story be told in a non-juvenile way. Let's be honest here everyone, nobody(or pony) here actually likes to play games, we much rather be watching the story play itself out. I know there are going to be salty Holla Forumsirgins here who are going to jump on me, but so let them. They are just artifacts of a bygone era, too stubborn to accept change.

The problem with BOTW, is that exploration doesn't reward you enough with game changing items, like the zora suit that makes you able to go up a waterfall
It just keep rewarding you with korok seeds or weapons you won't end up using, because monsters can be killed with average weapons easily
Compared to other zelda, where you unlocked the bomb to get rid of boulers, or the grappling hook to get to other area, it was always exciting to find a new item.
But since it's open world, they have to give you all you need to explore the map right from the get go

Super Hexagon
Velocibox
Cogs
Hexcells
English Country Tune
Unium
etc.

If this isn't a sign of a obvious raid I don't know what is.

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it may not have a story in it, but there sure as shit is one hell of a story around it
archive.fo/XPjoF

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Nice

No matter what any faggot on here says a good story is important, it's not *as* important as good gameplay and a game can survive without a heavy story but done right it can make up for a lot of other shortcomings.

N+ doesn't have a plot but it was mighty addictive. How about Dwarf Fortress where you both make your story and have it made for you at the same time.

What we don't need is cringe characters stinking up the screen with their edgy shitmouth and hackneyed fight dialogue. Plot and story would get a lot more play round here if some of it were actually well written as opposed to boilerplate garbage barfed up by hacks or horribly twee/annoying shit that gets us searching for the [Skip] button.

The other glaring problem is people knocking up visual novels and calling them games thinking praise for plot in games has anything to do with their lazy crap, those people need to fuck all the way off and post their sub-parart student shit into an obscure corner or tab away from real games.

You're a gay cunt lol