What makes a stealth game good Holla Forums?
What do yo think more stealth games need to start implementing more.
I personally love the light and shadow system in Metro 2033, I haven't played thief but I heard it has something similar. I'm also curious to see how a stealth game juggle an escort mission.
Ghosting without leaving anything behind should be encouraged and feel like a natural goal of the game instead of a shitty self imposed challenge or, at worst, an exploit
I've always wanted a stealth game where the amount of evidence you leave behind changes the flow of the story/levels, sort of like the inverse of what a good sandbox detective game would be
A good stealth game requires clear delineation between what is and isn't "safe". If you're in the shadows there needs to be clear indication that you can't currently be seen. Enemy fields of vision need to be clearly explained. A game only works if you know the rules you're playing by.
A good example is GoldenEye. The AK fired a three round burst by default, or single shot if you were scoped. The three round burst would alert enemies at range, a single shot (even a double tap IIRC) would not. You could figure this out easily enough with experimentation. Once you knew this, you could play by the rules and use the AK relatively safely.
If the rules had been more arbitrary, less black and white, it would have been less clear and much more frustrating.
There is an argument for much more depth to a stealth system, one that relies on percentages based on cover, lighting, noise, etc, but once you're getting that deep in to stat territory you might as well make it a proper RPG, and that will introduce random elements of its own, which will negate the "clear cut" stealth rules of whether or not you are discover-able.
I've never played thief before, and I picked it up at a garage sale on a road trip for $2. Has it aged well?
I've played it recently and I gotta say its still very fun to play. Although get ready to GIT GUD. It's extremely challenging but satisfying as hell when you beat a level.
Uplink sort of does this, but it isn't a stealth game at all.
Lots of loading screens
Forced memes
Embed marketing
Ads showing all the cool shit you won't do
Console limitations like a fog that prevents you from seeing past 20m, added before the release of the game when they realized a ps4/xbone wouldn't get stable 24fps
2deep4u story that tries to redeem really shit gameplay
Depth(it needs to have more than just a binary "in shadow, not in shadow"/"making noises,silent" mechanics), Level Design, Story, Main Character.
To a lesser extent the music is also a factor.
It makes use of 3D audio. You should be able to hear footsteps from behind you & you should be able to hear the water flow in front of you.
There are a few different ways to make a good stealth game depending on what its gameplay focus is. Some will aim for pure stealth, where ghosting is the clear goal, some will be more predator games, in which you're more encouraged to engage guards without detection. However, both of these design philosophies live and die on two elements :
1 - Level design.
2 - How organic the gameplay is. That is to say, how free you are in your actions and how many ways this might effect the flow of the gameplay. Something that is mostly contextualized actions, offering only one constrained set of weapons and skills, in which you can't hide bodies and enemies always travel along a set route with no variance in their reactions and strategies is not organic.
Basically, don't be Aragami.
Hitman: Blood Money has that, though it doesnt really change anything other than how quickly/easily NPC's detect and/or recognize you.
The second or third level of Thief II really scratches that itch. The one where you have to break into a constabulary and plant evidence, but you can't leave more than two bodies behind otherwise they'll know it was a set up.
Don't be linear, linear stealth games become puzzle games. See the early Tenchu games vs Shadow Assassins.
If any of you faggots posts that shitty Extra Credits video, I will strangle someone.
You mean the excellent video about why Thief is such a remarkable game and the utter failings of the 4th game, and modern games in general?
It's the third, and, I like it except for the level ending up being mostly dark and they don't even bat an eye. Casing the Joint is a much much better level in that respect.
Has any other game had as in-depth a sound system as Thief?
don't do any gay shit.
i'm the gayest nigga of them all.
IOW the the variable radius that you will get detected from by your noise, cones of sight with minuscule delay before being spotted inside them and so on. Well implemented simulation of physics and physiology of sensory organs. Body awareness kicking in only when needed and only as much as needed. The UI as little intrusive as possible.
no seriously, why the fuck is ghosting a thing? it's for dumb autismos who mutter "MUH STEALTH GAME" as they walk around and tip toe around shit throwing rocks at corners thinking they're hot shit, no fuck you stupid gay nigger. I rather have an autismo faggot that wants to go fast and kill fast than some fucking retard ass hat that spends his hours on a guard's cycle for his autismo run.
Are you retarded? Why won't you ask why speedrunning is a thing too? Some get bored playing the game as intended and make self-imposed restrictions to spice things up. Seriously, stop wasting oxygen.
I take it you have no experience actually sneaking around anywhere outside of your own house while your parents pretend not to notice their lardass kid running around and peeking corners?
Difficulty. And an actual reason to be stealthy.
Knocked out guards ACTUALLY WAKING UP
I fucking hate this shit. They never wake up, it's no different than killing them.
Ghosting is fine if the game is intended for you to ghost. What really scrapes my taint is when the game gives a bunch of fun ways to end your enemies and then tells you to not use any because only ebil people kill, so you either non-lethal (which is dumb and boring) or ghost using inefficient means because the game wasn't designed around it..
Play hitman 2 if you want tedious autism. It has garbage like "Enemies waking up"
The reason Thief is the best stealth game ever made is because on top of god tier music/level design/atmosphere/et you can go fast if you're good, you can still make mistakes without the game nit picking you and it's not a fucking breeze. Ghosting is for realism autists who don't know how to have fun and retards who think they're hardcore because they replayed the same level 100 times till they knew it inside and out, and then go on to bitch about assfaggots for doing the exact same fucking thing they are at least assfaggots aren't trying to gitgud against a fucking computer. Sad!
After years of playing SS13 I can safely say that sneaking into a secure area to steal some shit and getting out without anyone ever knowing you were there is the only 100% foolproof way for me to cream my jeans without physical contact and if you don't think that sort of thing is fun then you're entitled to your shit opinion but you can fuck right off regardless
Only one of those three is a stealth game, the other two are action games with basic stealth options.
Thief and Splinter Cell are the greatest stealth games ever made.
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Ghosting is fine if the game is built to allow it. Ideally you should be able to approach most levels of a good stealth game either with physical violence, whether that's one on one combat or just knocking guards out, or with avoidance. And maybe a few levels involving social stealth provided it's done correctly.
But you should be forced to work outside your comfort zone every once in a while. You should be able to be spotted while trying to ghost, deal with the guards and be able to continue without being punished too severely for it. Likewise there should be some levels where direct engagement is suicide (maybe still possible if you're good enough but still difficult) so you have to improvise and search for other routes.
Unfortunately these things are ruined by save scumming and there's no way to stop people from doing that.
This
I want to be able to create distractions to lure people to and from locations.
However that being said, nothing infuriates me more than games where they plant an unmoving guard right at the front of an objective so you HAVE to alert him to proceed.
Everything about first pic
See first point
Go play it, you triple nigger
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What you do with your game in private is by definition good, even if it's humping its CD case, baiter.
Who you think you are to decide for others what represents fun for them or doesn't, you spoiled crybaby that prefers watching lets plays to playing yourself, then whines that watching is boring. Get a noose around your neck and don't forget to wax it properly beforehand.
To stay hidden must be enjoyable. There is something cozy about being unseen, in stealth done well.
He should also mention Chronicles of Riddick with the latter two.
For starters if you have to be fucked hard if you stay and fight instead of fleeing.
Nothing takes away the fun in stealth game quicker than the knowledge that instead of sneaking around you could just… like beat everyone the fuck up and then drag their bodies out of the way if needed to.
While were at that i think many stealth games are too lenient with giving the player the tools to knock patrolling enemies unconscious easily making your playstyle into the kind where you just take down every enemy in the area and then swaltz around freely to do your thing.
Maybe something akin to Dishonored's chaos system would work to discourage that sort of gameplay in a pure stealth game or just straight out punishment after mission in the way of less cash/points etc though personally i dont like games doing that but how else?
Obv that shit can fall flat if the game has shitty level design where the only ways to objectives are past a narrow guarded corridor, not over it, from the sides or under etc.
Smart and reactive AI are the most important aspects of a stealth game. The player shouldn't be able to clean out the whole map of guards without anyone noticing and responding appropriately (calling in reinforcements, guards going to permanent "yellow" alert, going around in groups, actively trying to hunt you down).
I liked it in Desperados that some guards would notice if one of their partners was missing during patrol. Wish more stealth games did this.
The term is immersive simulation
what does that even mean?
I hate the idea of alertness going down. Let's say you get spotted or a dead body has been spotted, why would the guards stop caring about that just because you sat out inside some crater for a few minutes?
It's not very logical.
Riddick is a true example of Predator Stealth, a special sub-genre based around hiding between moments of loud rather than loud only happening when you fuck up (or if you prefer 'stealthy movement, non-stealthy combat').
Isn't on derail enough?
Sure, just like mgs.
If a simulation isn't immersive it's a shit simulation, genius.
I'm replaying thief after playing modern stealth games and holy fuck, I forgot you have to stealth walk while crouching in this game. Also guards spot you out of the corner of their eye if you peak too early, and they see you when they peak.
What the fuck happened to games, they were supposed to improve on this, not be the piss easy shit we got. Fuck, it's disappointing.