How would you balance the Holy Grail War? Just look at this unbalanced mess

yes goyim, everything needs to be equal

This OP also reminds me that there was going to be a Fate-Themed ASSFAGGOTish game before that got shitcanned by Nasu. Maybe someday we'll have a game that actually feels like a holy grail war.

Saber is so overpowered because they summoned an already overpowered individual to begin with, not just powerful as a "historical" figure, but also powerful as a legendary character, on top of having the most potent Noble Phantasm of them all.

Saber is broken on multiple levels, the only reason she doesn't wipe the floor with everyone is that Shirou can't supply her with enough mana.

Lancer is also extremely overpowered, his Noble Phantasm will kill if fired (in most cases) and he has enough mana in him to fire it six or seven times. The only reason he lost is because his master did never intend to use him to win to begin with.

The problem with Rider, again, is the master. She's actually extremely potent and a near divinity. Shinji is just an overall cretin that was more interested in porking her than winning her over to his side.

You seem to have missed the fact this one has been summoned by Caster. He's not the actual Assassin.

The rest are potent as well but all fail for one reason or another. Berserker would have won against anyone that wasn't Gilgamesh, and the only reason Shirou or Archer can defeat Gil is because they are his defacto natural enemy.

That being said, I would love a game that would make Archer's powerset a gameplay mechanic.

So who was then?

GTFO faggot

You only get to meet him in the shittest route, Heaven's Feel, so I don't really blame you for missing that part.

Fuck Nasu and his obsession with raping purple haired women. Did he get cucked by one in his youth or something?

Okay kid

The only good things about it are more Rider, Shirou almost giving up on his retarded ideal and some cool fights.

Heaven's Feel is the edgelord route where Nasu just jumps the shark and puts in edgy shit just for the sake of it.

It's the part that is the least Fate and the most Nasuverse with it's magic mechanics and is really the last time made an attempt to tie Fate to the rest of his series before giving the fuck up and just churning it out for cash.

Nasu routinely shits out characters that completely break his system anyway, so why give a shit? Shirou is basically a walking cheat he had to nerf down twice because that's how overpowered his ability makes him.

The only thing he's good for is the waifus, and Sakura is a shit waifu.

I understand Sakura being shit, don't get me wrong, all the heroines in F/SN are awful

Except Caster

Saber almost gets rekt by magic a few times. She can resist basic level magics easily, but her magic resistance isn't good enough to make Caster useless.

She can resists any magic a modern magician could send her way, but Caster is from the Age of Gods, when magic was on another level.

IIRC it's been noted that each consecutive Grail War featured more and more potent servants as each side scrambled to secure victory.

you cant balance the servant system because its the individuals that make it or break it. gil is most op but gets beat by EMYIA while EMYIA would get destroyed by lancelot and lancelot gets destroyed by iskander, ect ect

fixed

Still not videogames.

gil loses to EMYIA because ubw > GoB and all gil has to do is use EA but he wont cause his ego and his pride not because of deus ex machina retard

Other than Emiya just being inherently broken which is it's own issue. Most incredibly powerful servants are actually a bitch to summon if you don't have an artifact related to them. Any person can just pull a servant out of their ass randomly if they don't have an artifact but when that happens it comes down to "affinity" and weird shit like that. There's also the part where the Servant is severely handicapped depending on the Master they have. See Saber and Emiya.

Oh okay, that's funny because I literally only played Fate and UBW and skipped Heaven's Feel because Sakura a shit.

sad

Loli's not good enough to have to deal with worst girl that much.

there is also some neat tricks you can do like summoning lu bu as a berserker to prevent him from killing you because he is a filthy traitor

You can argue that the greatest disadvantage Gil has is his personality, and that goes for many other servants. There is a reason that most of them didn't die of old age.

It would have been cool if Nasu had decided to run with it, but then he had to asspull that Shirou can't use Gáe Bolg or Fragarach because "reasons".

Or Fate Zero Lancer and his faggot master. Then again Zero Lancer is supposedly cursed with bad luck involving women.

Only in body.

I don't think Zero Lancer and Master were that awful mana wise on the same level as how retarded Emiya is. The problem with Zero Lancer is his noble phantasms are pretty meh, and of course the bad luck with women kind of fucks him over with Arturia as well. His Master was fine, especially considering the mess of F/SN in comparison.

When you think about it Emiya really isn't a magus in any sense of the word. He's a one trick pony, his trick just happens to be really fucking broken, especially after Gil supplies him with the majority of his future arsenal.

He really wasn't. He failed to understand what Lancer was and wasn't willing to do. Sure, he was right about the Grail War being a complete shitshow were only the most ruthless and amoral have a chance of winning, but his unwillingness to view his servant as anything but an automaton there to follow his orders is what cost him.

To be fair, no one was expecting the next fight to come so soon after the fourth.

I'm saying he was fine compared to Shinji, Emiya, Snake-san…

While this is true can we honestly do a recap of the masters involved.
Now for the ones that are actually redeemable.

He's not really retarded, he's just batshit insane. One thing I really liked about the latest adaptation of UBW is the scene where Rin finally grasps that Shirou is complete fucking off the rails. The (not so) subtle difference in his eyes when he unveils just how far gone he is probably the best thing the adaptation did. Previous entries did not put enough stress on the fact that Shirou is in fact mentally ill.

Shinji isn't a magus, he doesn't have any circuits, hence why his family needed Sakura.

His uncle actively refused to become a magus and made a run for it. He was so disgusted with his family's magical legacy he actively avoided learning any of it.

A former contract killer that developed a martial art style that allows him to fight servants on equal grounds after some enhancements.

The Clocktower is full of useless faggots. The guy in charge of them made it his hobby to fuck with them for shit and giggles.

Eh, he's not really anything. Then again, he's the shittiest part of FSN and FZ, a complete Mary Sue.

After the priest kills off Lancer's master she just hijacks the process and takes the role of a master herself. I thought it was a clever twist, especially since many people reading the story will miss the the fact that Assassin is an extra servant and the second Assassin that got summoned.

Who is nearly as insane as her "brother" and is just in it to kill him.

And the story does point out that if Rin had summoned Saber she likely would have won.

It's not like she has much of a choice in the matter. The rape worms don't obey her, but her "grandfather", and he must be getting demented in his 100s because he thought making Shinji a master was a good idea.

I noticed you didn't defend Caster's original Master

He didn't even last as long as Shinji. You can't even be considered human if you can't manage that.

Be honest OP

You only read the Fate route didn't you

Yeah but the only reason Shinji is master is because he has a plot device inside him and he accidentally into the circle that was drawn to preserve Irisviel back in Zero because of his stupid escape attempt. He shouldn't have been a master except plot.
That's even worse.
But when push came to shove in order for him to be a master he forcefully gained mana and circuits via worms so at the end of his lifespan he was indeed a magus.
While cool that doesn't make him proper master material and he doesn't even have the excuse of being insane like serial killer from Zero. I know he's heartless and shit but he should never have been a master.
Did I forget to mention that that magus had a built in noble phantasm in addition to her servants that one hit kills literally always?

Those were the actually good and competent Master's who should have been legitimately involved and are actually well-written for their ability to actually be Master's proper.

meant for

I think you're missing the point. The system that selects masters is fucked up, likely always has been, maybe by design so the big three families didn't have to face up with too strong an opposition.

In Zero a serial killer that has a penchant for murdering children becomes a master.

Also, Shirou becoming a master likely has to do with the meta Counter Force, same reason Archer was able to travel into the past to try and to kill himself.

In zero the serial killer drew a summoning circle and that's how he got his servant, did you forget that?

Yes, I did. But my point still stands, worth really has fuckall to do with who becomes a master. Outside of people that perform a ritual to get a servant the rest get chosen at "random", or maybe by the Grail picking the kind of people that will turn the war into as big a clusterfuck as it can possibly get.

I really wise we had the grail war before Avenger fucked everything up as comparison for what one was actually supposed to look like as even the 4th war was fucked up by him. I suppose Avenger would be the type of guy to fuck up the war as best as possible with as many crazy faggots as possible.

*wish

Fuck too tired.

Caster's are a class that get's more dangerous the more they're allowed to roam free. They're basically the class that constantly builds and amasses it's power the longer the game goes on until Caster is extremely hard to beat if Caster is beatable at all by that point. Some Casters can become virtually unkillable or impossible to beat after a certain point so they have to be taken out early.

This reminds me, Assassin/Caster of Red got so broken in Apocrypha she developed enough energy to create a moving fucking sky fortress and was master to 4 other servants.

To be honest, Caster's Original Master was even more batshit retarded than FZ Lancer's Master.

She too, considering her backstory from when she was still alive. No exceptions.

First, you and I both know there are different versions of each class with wildly different tiers.

Secondly, the game itself is shit because you can win a match simply by killing the servant's master.

Gilgamesh is flagrantly over powered.
You always have some kind of assclown trying to bend or break the rules.
Fuckers collude with each other.
No set stages and you can be taken out before your servant spawns.
Fucking faggot mages with their bullshit overpowered healing gems make it pretty pay 2 win in some cases.
The game is a mess!

No items
Fox only
Final destination

Have magicians lose their powers and just let them beat the shit out of each other with their bare hands. Of course there would still be differences, but that would happen no matter what you do, unless you gave everyone the same character and just have them fight in an empty arena.

That kind of balancing can only result in Berserkerwinslol

Berserker isn't actually that good though, Berserker are supposed to be undirectable engines of destruction that might just kill you if given the chance. The strain of taking a shit servant (Lancelot) and making them a berserker is nothing comparable to taking an already broken hero (like Heracles) to that level of crazyness. Only reason Illyasviel can handle is "lol infinite command seals"

I thought Lancelot's power was pretty interesting, and if facing anyone but Gilgamesh (or Shirou) that can just spam Noble Phantasms at will he'd ruin anyone's day.

It's pretty interesting but you have to realize Berserker servants are powerful but they slowly kill you and they can barely if at all be directed. So while Lancelot and Heracles are pretty cool and shit the problem of the whole
concept kind of ruins it

The Berserkers is the opposite of Caster. While Caster starts out relatively weak and gains more power as time goes on Berserkers start out insanely powerful but slowly whittle their masters down until they shake off the chains and kill you. Though both instances of Beserkers we have seen were controllable, so it's safe to assume that whoever is out to summon one will put in place measures to keep it on a leash.

If you're the master of Beserker the best thing you can do is seek out confrontation with your opponents as early as possible.

...

lancelot's master was having a heart attack everytime lancelot would swing his sword.

No character depth at all other than "protect Sakura"
Now that's a waifu.

That's because the worms were eating his flesh to supply mana to Lancelot. The master never really bothered to train as a magus and his mana reserves were below even those of Shirou.

This entire thread smells of secondaries, with a few people that read maybe a few F/SN routes at best.

Wasn't the whole grail war thing just another pretense to get to the superlibrary or whatever it's called? I don't think anyone involved in making it actually cared about balancing and just needed to come up with distinct enough types so that their bullshit system would work. My personal theory is that Nasu is actually a pseudonym for a series of six year old kids that type-moon interview for ideas and then murders and disposes of their bodies once they enter puberty. I mean, think about it, it makes perfect sense.

I can't blame them for killing the kids.

Shit taste brah.

...

Turn it into a card game made by Konami.

Yup. The grail was supposed to be the device for that and summoning the servants was simply to acquire sources of pure mana to fill the grail with. The problem was that the Einzberns who came up with the idea for the system couldn't do it on their own and needed the Matou and Tohsaka familes to help but didn't want to share. So they figured the only way to resolve the whole thing was through a free for all battle royale. Apparently the first war wasn't even much of a war. They summoned the servants and killed them on the spot and since they didn't calibrate the grail right, the whole thing failed.

Lancelot's actually a really, really good servant who would make a better saber than Saber. Being able to use any weapon, being able to turn anything he can consider as a weapon into a noble phantasm, being able to disguise himself as others because fuck assassins, having a sword that improves his defensive chances, is indestructible, can apparently fire beams if he wanted it to, and his personal favorite weapon in return for losing the other abilities are all really good qualities. The only good thing he got as a berserker was losing the need to think which cut down his reaction time so that he wouldn't need to consider whether grabbing the flying sword launched at him to strike the incoming spear is a good idea.

Just forget about balance. It's meaningless.
It's so plot dependent it doesn't matter how strong they are.
Just forget balance. With the right plot armor any servant can win.
Oh did I forget about that girl who can 1v1 caster while throwing magical gems :DDDDDDD
I can only imagine the bullshit that goes on past the fate zero VN.

But you would be stupid to expect balance. The VNs are great and should be enjoyed for what they are.

Never beat a Heroic Spirit, just tricked Assassin because he was immune to the one specific instant-kill attack he used, and had already watched Assassin use the exact same tactic earlier. He exorcised Zouken and could maybe exorcise Assassin, just bluffed his way out of it.

Was reinforced by Medea. If you actually read the VN and didn't just watch the shitty anime, he only beat Saber because she underestimated him, and he beat her ass in the few seconds before she could defend herself. Without reinforcement, against Archer who knew what to expect, he lost almost instantly.

See above. She's also nerfed throughout the VN.
It depends on the MAG rating of the enemy Servant. Medea or Saber would effectively be immune or at least resistant to it, for example.
She is. She loses to any Servant in the war except maybe Assassin in a one-on-one battle. Her buffed Master defeated Saber and Rider the same way; he was killed by True Assassin without putting up any fight, and by Archer with no difficult once his buffs were down.
He's the strongest Heroic Spirit. It wasn't even a fair fight. The three things that managed to counter him: the EX-Rank Avalon, which didn't even know existed, used at just the right moment for him to be caught off-guard; Shirou using UBW and rushing him before he could counter, taking about ten seconds; the Shadow eating him, after he already killed it, and failed to consider it might regenerate.
She tricked Caster into thinking it was a magic battle, and got close enough to bum-rush her the same way Kuzuki could trick Saber. Caster was much stronger physically but had no martial experience, and could be beaten easily by someone who knew the basics of CQC.

Fuck you.

Doesn't matter. Killed both a master and a servant alone.
I did read the fate VN and couldn't care less who underestimated who. He beat a heroic spirit, that is no small feat. You can be all you want enhanced, but you need skill to beat heroic spirits and he definitely had it.
Instakilling rider and potentially killing masters is no joke.
She is the only servant who can have a servant.
I can agree with this, but it's always some bullshit excuse to kill him off several times with ease.
Rin was not supposed to have an ounce of a chance. That whole fight was bullshit and you know it.

caster does not normally do 1v1s

Can you see the pattern of bullshitery Fate does ?

Fine. I didn't read it, but there is one even if fan made. I just read the regular fate VN and at that time hollow ataraxia was not translated. Never bothered with the others later.

Plot armor and sudden weaknesses changes the balance in fate all the time. Berserker losing more than 1 life in a death is beyond bullshit.

He didn't though. He killed the Master, and the Servant left on its own volition. In the original draft he was going to, yes, but that was going to require fifteen Command Spells - and seeing as just two is enough to force a Magic Resistant servant like Saber to do anything, that doesn't even say much. The VN goes into very long detail about how his method would have been useless if Assassin had actually used a different tactic than the exact same one he uses every time, or if he had still had a heart (which he didn't, because it was removed in the 4th War, and replaced by Grail Mud). All of this was foreshadowed - technically as far back as Fate, considering that him getting stabbed in the heart did nothing then, and it took Shirou releasing all of the mana Rin pooled into the Azoth Dagger just to kill him.

Masters are magi. Medea is a magus. She can summon a Servant because she is a magus. Gilgamesh can do the same thing, if he's not summoned as an Archer; in F/GO, he summons multiple Servants. It's not that difficult when you have the mana needed. And since the Grail does most of the work anyways, it's made even simpler.

One of the major themes in the UBW Route was showing that Heroic Spirits, with all of the powers and advantages they have, are not the unbreakable pinnacles that they're made out to be. Yes, they are powerful. Yes, they are far above normal humans. But they're still susceptible to human weaknesses in other ways. Saber thought an unarmed human was defenseless and rushed in - she was put down instantly. Caster thought herself so far above a modern magus that she could just toy around - she left herself open and was beaten down. Gilgamesh knew he was the top Heroic Spirit, and never took his opponent seriously - he left himself open for just a few seconds, and that was all it took.

Yes, there is a pattern. That's called the theme of a story.

And just because you didn't read the mechanics behind God Hand doesn't mean much. The characters in the story itself understand it as bringing him back to life, but there is never a guidebook explicitly describing its mechanics. The closest that's been given has been given outside of the material - each life is essentially a meter capable of taking 100% damage. Any attack under B-Rank deals 0% damage, anything over does full. If he takes 200% damage, he loses two lives. If he takes 300% damage, he loses three. After he dies, he immediately regenerates to 100% in his next life, and gains immunity to what killed him the last time. An attack that deals 1200% damage will knock off every stock. Archer can't deal that much damage, but has unlimited weapons, and can take off a stock with each go; hence removing six lives beforehand, allowing Rin to nuke one with a shitload of jewels strong enough to penetrate his defense, and Saber+Shirou to remove the remaining five with Caliburn, an A+ Ranked attack (when it takes only a B Rank attack to remove one life). Gilgamesh has even more powerful weapons, plus Enkidu, which is super-effective against Divinity; since he has so many weapons, he just needs to spam them until something gets the kill, and spam them again, since he can kill Berserker the same way a thousand different times.

Like holy shit, this is all in the fucking manual.

I think it's pretty balanced, the problem has always been the masters who do not use their servants for maximum efficiency.

And berserker is a serious bad class, it's not worth it to be crazy all the times.

While some of the stuff is justifiable with ranks like you said, other stuff is still retarded in more ways than one.
What does it matter that the VN explains how kotomine did it ?(not in as great detail as you say)
He still did it. Came out alive after being chased by an assasin servant and killed the master who was probably the most experienced magus there.
Don't give me *if someone had used another tactic* because we will never see that someone again and he was probably the best assasin servant so far.
I don't consider caster shit tier as much as you do. In the rulebreaker route she was a major threat until the bullshit that is gilgamesh showed up.

While it was a fun route, will you really argue that it is humanly possible for shirou to beat his experienced older self and then gilgamesh ?

Saber is probably the most serious servant of them all. How does she suddenly lose her serious approach when fighting the assassin human ?
Caster being on par with rin's gems is laughable but that seems fine to you for whatever reason.

You are asking me to take the manual seriously when half the time someone is tricked, not on guard, underestimating others or boasting about his victory defenselessly and then getting pounded by what amounts to a 16 year old girl.
Pardon me if I can't take the manual seriously when it's bypassed all the time.

I didn't know that shit about gilgamesh. But can grand order be taken seriously ? Isn't it just a phone game ?

Lancelot can be directed, that's what makes him OP he is calm under madness.

Zouken being experienced doesn't mean jack shit. Kirei was a Church Executor - his specific job description is hunting down rogue mages and vampires. And Zouken was both a magus and a vampire; not in the same manner as a Dead Apostle, true, but vulnerable to Church methods which are super-effective against creatures that consume humans.

Cursed Arm Hassan isn't even that powerful as Assassins go. He has a single good gimmick - keeping at a distance from the opponent, using his dirks to control their movements, and then going for the kill. He used the exact same technique every time. Kirei watched him do it and exploited it.

There is no such thing.
Caster is explicitly described as shit-tier in the text and materials. She is dangerous against humans, but not against Servants. Saber kills her with no difficult in HF. Archer wrecks her in UBW. Gilgamesh has no problem with her. Lancer is almost as good at magic as she is, and summoned as a Caster with an adequate MAG stat in F/GO is more efficient as a combat mage than she is; as a Lancer, his MagResist is high enough to deflect most of her spells. She can kill Berserker a maximum of three times before any trick she has is unable to bypass God Hand. True Assassin kills her Master in HF without her even noticing. Rider is the only one to never go at it one-on-one, and has fucking Shinji as her Master in UBW, when Kuzuki kills her.

Shirou traces the experience of the wielders of weapons. This is stated in the text. It's how he managed to pull off Nine Lives Blade Works in HF. When he battled Archer, he was getting stronger with every pass, by "tracing" Archer's experience. Archer didn't want to just kill him, either - he wanted to break him down. Shirou refused to do so, and went in for the final move. Archer had the chance to kill him then, but hesitated at the last minute, and let Shirou win. As for Gilgamesh - Shirou didn't need to be good. Everytime Gilgamesh drew a weapon, he drew its counter, since UBW let him do so faster. He didn't need to be a better swordsman - he just needed to be good enough to block one attack. Each hit destroyed both weapons. Gil freaked out and went for Ea, which took enough time for Shirou to lop his arm off.

Read the text again. Rin challenged Caster to a duel, and Caster accepted. Caster never even use her magic - she just neutralized the gems in her robe. Rin was getting closer and closer, and Caster never considered that possibility of her lunging forward, because a mage does not do that. Rin was an eccentric freak of a magus who has a personal gym in her basement.

Because she didn't know what he was. She thought he was just some asshole. She didn't realize he was an asshole with a very specific combat technique that didn't exist in her time, and with his fists enhanced by Caster to be over ten times stronger and ten times faster than a human is supposed to be. If she wasn't a Heroic Spirit, she would have died instantly. It's even been stated outside of the text that Kirei and Bazzet, two of the best human combatants in Fate, would both lose 100% of the time unless they had already seen him use his technique on someone else first.

Except it's really not. There is no rule that says "a Heroic Spirit will always beat a human". That's just something characters in the story assumed, only to be proven wrong.

That's because you're actually a secondary who only watched the anime. But even then you should at least recognize him, seeing as he's one of the two main antagonists of the fucking VN.
Yes. It's a visual novel with gameplay. The story is essentially "everything Nasu wanted to write about but couldn't because urban fantasy doesn't mix well with fighting a divine spirit". The first year or so is rough, but everything from the past year has been much more on point.

its was explained that modern mages has to get physical to make up for their shity magic

who f/go here
post your five star servants

I thought that Rin's chinese martial arts shit was another one of those exceptions from the norm that can be added to "Nasu's super special fun time exception list." I'm pretty sure mages in Nasu land are like magicians in pretty much every medium in that their dick measuring contests are solely in magical prowess and only the sly protagonists and random super assassins would ever think of just punching your opponent. I mean, it's a plot point in the prequel that Lord Mellon kills the overseer priest with a gun so that everybody expects knockoff Golgo 13 did it because everyone who works with magic in Nasu world is either is 20000000000000000000 years old or are fantasy conservatives.

or wears jeans

I want a fate game that lets me play as a cute heroic loli

Just wait for the handheld rerelease, Fate Extella Legends.

The VN is fucking awful, I suffered reading the fate route just so I could watch fate/zero.
No way I'm going back just to suffer through worm slut's route.

The UBW route is better than Fate. Nobody forces you to suffer through HF.

listen here you dumb faggot. I told you 2 times I read the VN. I don't care if you believe otherwise.
I do recognize Gilgamesh. I also recognize him as being limited in power and being fed suffering from the tortured beneath the church to sustain himself for years. It is difficult to assume that he has the mana to summon 3 more spirits when he is sustaining himself and only later goes on human hunts to get really powerful for the war.
In fact by all the currently established stuff in the VN it's pure bullshit, but hey guys like you enjoy everything the author throws at them so who cares. Bring forth the jet fighter gilgamesh has.
All your arguments along with the fate arguments boil down to:
Which fails when dealing with legendary heroes.
Pretty sure Rin was dodging shit for the second half of that battle.
Ok so you took the flimsy VN explanation seriously. Case closed. No point debating you in any meaningful way.
You probably like the flying ship Gilgamesh uses in zero too.

Durr hurr you are a secondary for not playing a mobile game.
I can't even describe the amount of faggotry you need to pull that shit.

Us riderfags have to stick together.

He gave Rider to Shinji because Sakura asked him to after she saw the Command Seals forming on Shirou's hand because she didn't want to fight him.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the main seven Servant classes were based on the Grand Servant classes, which already existed as a part of the World's defensive mechanisms.

Considering that's the case, the question then is, is this a retcon from the servant mobile shit, or another patented NASU FACT that didn't get brought up until now? I tried looking to see if there was any allusions to this before Nasu talked about it about a year ago and I got as far as "The holder of Nega-Messiah" before I decided to take a break.

There isn't anything that got retconned by this reveal as far as I'm aware so it's the NASU FACT one I believe.

Technically there was also Luvia.

That the Clocktower has a wrestling room in it (canon be damned, I want to believe there is a wrestling ring in Clocktower) also leaves me to headcanon that Clocktower trains pro wrestlers as a sort of hobby for the school.

Although like the other guy said, mages actually getting physical is indeed an abnormality. As far as I'm aware, there's Rin, Luvia and Bazette. Everyone else actually used magecraft or completely avoided getting caught in battles.

Kotomine is a priest and the Church follows their own methods from mages.

As far as FGO is concerned, it is as canon is most other things in Fate for better or worse. Especially since it's Nasu's main focus now. Further on the earlier discussion, the Gilgamesh that summoned servants in FGO was still alive as a human who decided to take up magic after losing the elixer of immortality. So in his case there, he wasn't a servant summoning another servant like Medea. He also used the ether(?) in the air which was much more abundant in the age of gods to help with the summoning and maintenance process.

All I know about FGO is that it's on par with Pokemon GO in making money hand over fist, one of the VAs paid more money for gacha than what she was paid for working on it, and there's an Arthur with visible breasts, which is completely unrealistic in my opinion.

The point was for the three knight classes to be over powered for the Makiri, the Tohsaka, and the Einzbern. The other classes were for suckers because just three servants wouldn't be enough to complete the ritual. Of course since it's drawing on what is essentially a random servant generator you can get the mortal embodiment of the sun goddess as a Caster or other such crazy things

...

Assassin:

Berserker:

Caster:

Lancer:

Saber:

Other changes/fixes:

So basically,

We Caster meta now. Fucking knew they'd pull this stunt after Merlin came out to fish for shekels. They're not even TRYING to hide the fact this is unbalanced as shit. Fuck this war, it's been going downhill since the third.

I'm ashamed to say I typed up the pasta by memory

FGO is basically a waifu simulator, the fact they made enough money to upgrade it twice and ship it over in English speaks volumes. I'm still dissapointed in a lot of things about it though, like lack of interactions everybody's dieing for.

I don't think pic related would be a very good ranged fighter

...

wow way to nerf kiristugu

Also while we're on the topic
imgur.com/a/tAfOE

...

...

...

I'll post the continuation series later, possibly.