Gameplay > Story

You just havent played games that mix story and gameplay well you dumb bimbo.

So you're saying Tetris is the pinnacle of gaymen.
You truly are an enlightened being, dog bless.

Fuck off carmack

Really it's more how the story is delivered rather than the story itself. Having a reasonable length cut scene at the beginning and ending of each chapter or even each stage doesn't cause any harm as long as you are allowed to play the game uninterrupted between times. Another way is to have story told as voluntary interaction with NPCs or as lore entries from items or a bestiary.

wtf I love EA games now

I didn't have to see this

Kill yourself. I've had fucking enough of worthless indie bullshit and unoriginal Triple Ayy no effort pieces of crap that only focus on muh explosions and muh america. I want story-rich games to become a thing. I want games with 10+ hours of HQ cutscenes that bring philosophical, religious and political messages to the player. I want games that once you finish, they make you think about the message behind the story. I want testosterone-filled characters and a sense of brotherhood with my allies. I want games with massive battles that show you humanity's lust for battle. I want games that don't fucking suck.

Now you've gone too far in the opposite direction.

Yeeeaaaa… problem is, "story rich games" are also a niche colonized by indie faggots and the results are Pillars of Eternity or Torment.

Her face is so weird. I don't even know what's wrong with it, it just really bothers me to look at.

Anytime a game tries this shit it always feels forced and pretentious. It's better to have no story than a bad story, so if games could have less story that'd be fine by me. But it's not at all like you say, games these days all seem to be trying to be movie-games, and those are practically nothing but story with little gameplay.

This whole discussion is only because of lack of competence or creativity on the developers part.

Gameplay>Story or Gameplay

what did OP meme by this?

That's what smug looks like on 3DPD.

I don't hate stories just cinematic experiences.

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I'd rather have stories play out during the gameplay. Cutscenes are fine as long as they are mainly used as transitions between scenes or areas. QTE are fine if they are more than just button presses. Forcing a player to stop playing is bad design.

Why not both?
Give this man to a company that can make games again god damn it.

I am a really big fan of delivering story through stuff like item descriptions, its all text so it takes up little space on the game, and its all optional so you never get put in an unskippable cutscene.
dragon age, a game from your examples, had shitty cutscene dialogue AND awesome item text, and perhaps it would be better with less cutscene shit but I really enjoyed the item descriptions.

what you described isnt even a game, its an anime.

kill yourself casual scum

A development studio has a budget to keep in. The more attention and resources spent on the story means less of these spent on anything else. Mind you, these days most money goes into advertising, so even story would be a lesser evil.

Der jude

There was only one game series that did item description right, it was souls series, including bloodborne. Now that's a respectable game series that both focuses on gameplay only and delivers what you seek.

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Show, don't tell applies here once again. Games with lengthy cutscenes are merely preaching a point across, propaganda or otherwise. A plot and themes presented through the gameplay is a much more impactful means of bringing a point across, and by having a player actually experience said themes, the point is better made and understood. If you want to be told a decent story, read a book, it will do a much better job telling a quality story than an interactive visual medium like video games.

Story in games only works when you're in direct interaction with the story. It's even better when the story is explicitly about the player character, like in Morrowind. Even then, every relevant plot development must be directly in control of the player. This requires very specific and talented writing in order to do right, and using cutscenes and scripted events are shortcuts developers take at the expense of the player.
Take for example MGS The Twin Snakes, where each time you kill a boss, it shows Snake giving a finishing move in the next cutscene. This trivializes the fight beforehand, and makes you feel like you didn't really do it yourself.

Would optional dialogue/lore count? Like books in TES, emails in Deus Ex, codec calls in MGS. Something you can easily look over, but just as easily get exposition bit-by-bit.

this is actually interesting and right now its gone about in 2 ways I know of.
there is turning story into gameplay, usually RPG do this and they will try to make your story decisions have a big impact on the gameplay, like which path you take or who you kill in new vegas and who you save in dark souls.
the second way is turning gameplay into story, another souls example is, you have the choice to attack a few people or not (priscilla, patches) and the choice isnt made in a cutscene or dialogue bubble but simply by attacking them or not, you make story decisiions by playing the game itself.

yea, optional dialogue would count I suppose for all the objective reasons i like it.
subjectively no, I like item descriptions because I have a boner for reading about the legendary sword that king such and such used to slay whatsit and the battle for whatever, and then was used to blah blah blah never to be seen again… until now.

TES in general is a shit game series. You should be ashamed for liking it and speaking of it positively. Daggerfall was a fluke of a game with loads of unneeded pregenerated shit, instead of hand made locations, Morrowind was a symbiosis of bad gameplay mechanics even for its own age, and loads of unneeded text. Since then it was shit for casuals only and its not surprising.

At least you haven't posted her nudes. Thanks for having mercy on us.

Story is only good when it is recognized for what it is - window dressing meant to just contextualize the world, the actors, and actions/events occurring within it. Like Carmack said, "it's expected to be there but it's not that important". Of course, the more complex a game is, the more important it may be to contextualize everything neatly. Simple puzzle games like Tetris don't need any story, most Action games don't require much to give you an excuse to just kill everything you see, but more open-ended games like Adventure or RPGs are the games where you often need some form of overarching plot to give your actions context and meaning.

However, if the developer decides that the contents of its story and its presentation is more important than aiding in explaining the gameplay or more important of a focus than the gameplay itself, that's when you have a problem. It's fine if the dev wants to just make sure that window dressing is as pretty as possible, but they shouldn't try and force the player to experience it any more than is necessary to just know what to do in the game. So unless your gameplay actually involves all those metaphysical concepts or that dramatic tension, then you don't really need to tell the player about any of it.

Not really. It can have plenty of story and still have great gameplay (e.g. rpgs). But gameplay should also take priority over story.

Nier is overrated.
People just play it because of the sex content and the fact that nothing else good is coming out. It's become the Fallout 4 of Holla Forums.

Stopped reading here. Nice b8 op, got me through the first chunk of text at least.

I like games that drop you into the gameplay pretty much right away but have optional story/lore bits in the game for those who want them. Dark Souls and the new DOOM are good examples of this.

Stories in games should take a back seat to gameplay but I've played quite a few games where the story was so shit that it took away a bit of fun for the game for me
I know that writing for games can be kind of tough, especially if Devs switch things midway through development but still I don't really think that's a good enough justification for having a shit story.
If your game has a narrative that's important to the game, you should put work into it, just as you would music or visuals.

THERE ARE NUDES??!

Do you seriously want to learn the answer to that question

post it

her whole body is a turn off for me. I cannot find one thing about it that turns me on.

You're fucking disgusting. The first time I saw the nudes of that revolting Jewish hamplanet I puked.

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Therefore, post her nudes so I can get drunk and wank to her photos. DO IT

DO IT, FUCK THE FAGGOTS WHO SAY "DON'T", THEY'VE SEEN WORSE

Let me share with you the magic of our lord and savior, 2D. It is the purest most beautiful thing and loves you unconditionally.

Gameplay > story
Otherwise it's tv

thats a lot of typing for something that will mostly be agreed upon here. story isn't even quite the issue with games these days anyway, its how the story is delivered. the most popular method these days is by forcing the player to stop or slow walk to listen to NPCs talk instead of a cutscene you can skip. this method hurts replay value but some braindead cunt played half life 2 and thought standing in a room watching NPCs jerk each other off till one of them opened a door was the most incredible thing, because god forbid they use a cutscene for major exposition so you can skip it on replays or if the story just sucks

movies maybe, tv doesn't have stories its just a platform for advertising

Raistlin Majere?

I agree with that assessment.

Skippable cutscenes are a good thing.

Half-Life 2 unskippable cutscenes are the worst.

Sounds like RPG's aren't for you

Yes user, you need context for the gameplay, otherwise you are just moving numbers on a spread sheet, but in the end, if the video GAME sucks at gameplay it failed as a game.

That being said, the story should always enforce the gameplay. Just like the gameplay should effect the story. A good RPG would change dialog and story depending on how your character went about his action. Was he a fighter? He smashed everything. Was he a Rogue? He sneaks by everything. Characters should respond calling him a brute for smashing, or a coward for sneaking. If the game was really good, which is something I don't think I ever saw any game ever do, is adapt to what the player does just like people would in that world. They know your character smashes everything? They higher more archers. They know you sneak around a lot? They light more torches. Story should be more then character dialog and text prompt.

but yea, these movie games that are more cutscene then game play suck.

You've just described my opinion of Bioshock back when it was some hype thing.

No.
Sound > Gameplay > Story

surprised at how many posts it took for someone to mention the opinion of a certain autistic, cat killing programmer who doesn't actually know anything about game design and just uses video games as a programming exercise